- 1 ngày trước
Lucy Letby: Murder or Mistake S01E01
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29:11The Chair of the Inquiry began this morning by saying this.
29:15In the months since the Court of Appeal handed down its judgment, there has been a huge outpouring
29:22of comment from a variety of quarters on the validity of the convictions.
29:28So far as I'm aware, it has come entirely from people who were not at the trial.
29:36I think the inquiry is looking at all events leading up to the deaths of these babies.
29:42It's not looking at whether Lucy Leppi is guilty or not.
29:45That's been agreed in a court, so there's no question about her guilt.
29:50What is astonishing is the noise from people who feel that they can make outrageous comments
30:00through, you know, scientific papers such as Private Eye.
30:07The most hysterical support for Lucy Leppi has come from the great metropolitan elite,
30:19or what I call them, God's most entitled.
30:22In Wales, you know, we've been told for the past 700 years, you know, that we're not good enough.
30:29Ever since the Lucy Leppi case came up on my radar, I haven't really slept.
30:50I'm thinking about it every single night.
30:53I'm waking up in the middle of the night thinking, have we got this right?
30:55Are we going wrong?
30:59I think what worries me most about this is, you know, hundreds of babies die avoidably
31:05in the UK, in the NHS, every year because they don't get superb care.
31:09There has to be a false reading, the question is, is it just a little bit...
31:12And Chester clearly had problems with staffing.
31:16You probably should send it to the...
31:17I mean, in the middle of the deaths, one of the consultants wrote to the manager and said,
31:21we're seriously understaffed, we don't have enough incubators, the whole thing's fallen to pieces,
31:25and if you don't sort it out, babies are going to keep dying.
31:29There was clearly serious problems.
31:33So if there are plausible alternative explanations to this that aren't murder, such as suboptimal care,
31:39and Mark McDonnell can show that in a few cases,
31:42then all of the cases may fall.
31:46I think it would be good to do it face to face with him.
31:59I've now been approached by two neonatologists, both of them seem to be incredibly experienced,
32:06and both of them are willing to help.
32:09They've got access to the medical records, and they are working on it.
32:14All right, speak to you soon, bye-bye.
32:16I've been working as a consultant in a tertiary neonatal unit for just over 25 years now.
32:28My role as a medical expert witness is to go through the evidence in detail,
32:36and to try to reveal the truth of what has happened to these babies.
32:46The first report that we looked at was on Baby O.
32:50Today, in this episode, we're focusing on the 15th baby in the case,
32:58who the prosecution say Lucy Letby murdered during her first shift back at work
33:02after her holiday to Ibiza at the end of June 2016.
33:06Baby O was a baby that was one of three identical triplets,
33:10and when Lucy Letby came on to shift, there were no concerns about Baby O's health,
33:15but a few hours later, he collapsed and started to deteriorate.
33:20He then collapsed a second time and then passed away.
33:28The doctors could find no medical explanation for this,
33:30other than Lucy Letby was around at the time of his collapse.
33:36I saw pictures of the autopsy.
33:39There were incredible abnormalities in the liver.
33:45The pathology opinion was that the liver abnormalities were so severe
33:49that they looked like what you'd get in a road traffic accident.
33:55I had concluded that this baby had suffered from trauma to the liver,
34:00but as well as that, this baby was the victim of air injected into the bloodstream.
34:05So, you've both put together a joint report on Baby O.
34:19And for the purpose of this discussion, Baby O is the one said by the prosecution
34:27that Lucy Letby somehow damaged the liver by some blunt trauma.
34:35Is there a reason for his collapse?
34:39I think the overall conclusion that we came to is that there are justifiable medical explanations
34:49errors, which led to the collapse of Baby O.
34:56And the first signs of a change happened around about midnight.
35:01We can see in those charts changes in temperature, changes in heart rate and some gradual increase
35:10in abdominal distention that was noticed by the nursing staff.
35:14He had two medical reviews and neither picked up on the changes.
35:19This had happened overnight.
35:21I mean, is that surprising? Is that something that you would expect?
35:23I think that's not desirable.
35:25It should have been picked up?
35:27It should have been picked up, yes.
35:29It was then at 2.40.
35:31I can see there was the emergency call.
35:34Emergency call.
35:34Why do you think this trial did not respond to the resuscitation?
35:40I was instantly struck by the use of these extreme high ventilator pressures.
35:46During the resuscitation?
35:47During the resuscitation meant that the lungs were pushing right down on the diaphragm.
35:52At a late point in the resuscitation, one of the consultants who was there decided to put
35:57a needle into the abdomen to decompress it.
35:59Would that have been a cause of action you would have chosen to have done?
36:04Absolutely not.
36:06So the most likely consequence of that is that as you put the needle in,
36:11there would be some bleeding and you would cause damage to the liver.
36:16This cannula insertion into the liver have caused that amount of bleeding.
36:20Yes, yes.
36:20We believe there is good evidence to suggest that it did so.
36:24Without a doubt. This is not a query. This is what happened. It is obvious.
36:32Okay. All right. Well, thank you for that. That's very helpful.
36:38I think it's now my turn to get this to the Criminal Cases Review Commissioner as soon as I can.
36:43I have never read a more detailed report than the report that they repaid.
36:59The two experts say that no crime was committed.
37:04If they are all right, then Lucy Letby did not harm his child.
37:19When Lucy Letby came in and gave me the box, I opened it.
37:24There's a wrist strap. There's a baby hat. There's a blanket.
37:37And then we had the notepad, which she told me, oh, you can keep that as a diary.
37:44I think if something like the box would be given later on, or after we'd seen him,
37:56or after they'd explained something, it might have been different.
38:00But at that point in time, to come in and laugh...
38:03..it's just not normal, is it?
38:10I just think she's done something.
38:12Obviously, there's no concrete evidence.
38:14We don't have a magic ball that we can go back and look at, but...
38:20..it's just too much.
38:22He was fine when he was smaller, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:26It wasn't until he was about five years old when we started having serious issues with him.
38:33He is delayed at school by about two years from where he should be.
38:37He still can't write very well.
38:40And he's had really bad seizures, where they've not stopped for 15, 20 minutes.
38:51The first one was horrific, wasn't it?
38:54Mm. Yeah, just come out of nowhere, didn't it?
38:57Occasionally, he'll ask us, if he has a fit, will he die?
39:01And that, I find, the most scary thing.
39:05All weekends, he kept saying to me, I wish I was normal, I wish I was normal.
39:10And it's so sad, because I keep trying to say to him,
39:14well, you are normal for you. Like, we love you how you are.
39:18But he just wants to be like everyone else.
39:22The day that she was given a sentence, obviously, it was all over the news.
39:26He's seen it on the telly.
39:30And he saw our reactions.
39:32Yeah.
39:32And obviously, he wanted to know why Mummy and Daddy were upset.
39:36He was always crying, wasn't he?
39:38Mm.
39:40And he was asking, he was saying, is that who I think it is?
39:43He said, that's the nurse, isn't it?
39:46That's the naughty nurse that tried to kill me.
39:48She's not guilty.
39:53You're sure of that?
39:53Yes.
39:55Yes. Listen, I'm working night and day on this case.
40:00If I thought for the moment that she was guilty, I wouldn't be doing this.
40:05Well, let's have a look at it.
40:16If they've got the evidence, publish it.
40:20Send me a copy.
40:22Let's see where we go to.
40:27He's a barrister.
40:30Well, it may be said by one expert, but I remember experts that have a completely
40:34contradictory here.
40:36None of that argument regarding miscarriage of justice applies in any of these cases.
40:43These were stable babies.
40:46They were vulnerable babies because of their prematurity,
40:49but their prospects of survival was excellent.
40:55Now, this is the kind of chart that was used in Chester to monitor a baby's well-being.
41:03This one is for illustrative purposes, only to avoid any difficulties with confidentiality.
41:09It shows a heart rate, which is nice and normal.
41:13All of these are indications of a baby being well.
41:17But despite all of this, what happened here?
41:22Well, Lucy Letby arrived.
41:26The little baby was assaulted and he died as a consequence.
41:31The babies that collapsed, all had records similar to this.
41:39Letby appears and suddenly one has a baby who is at death's door.
41:44When those believing in her guilt say,
41:57well, she was on duty for so many of these deaths,
42:02the answer is, of course she was.
42:06Because if she hadn't been, she couldn't have had the finger pointed at her.
42:11My name is Peter Elston.
42:16I've spent most of my career in the financial industry applying statistics.
42:20As an investment manager for 35 or so years, when it comes to these sorts of criminal cases,
42:29many of them can be appraised using statistics.
42:32There were a lot more than just the seven deaths that Letby was being charged with.
42:39There were 17 in total.
42:41So what was going on there?
42:42Was there another serial killer?
42:45When the verdicts were announced, I wrote about it on my blog saying that,
42:50I think anybody can see from that roster chart with this uninterrupted line of exes.
42:57That would have been extremely convincing.
42:59But frankly, this was deeply, deeply flawed indeed.
43:04And I don't think any statistician would give it any credence whatsoever.
43:08The actual rota evidence that every time a baby died,
43:12it was Lucy and only Lucy who was there, is just plain wrong.
43:15Because you only included the babies who died while she was there.
43:21Statistics did not play a part in Letby's conviction.
43:25Whilst statisticians said, well, what about the babies who died who are not on the spreadsheet?
43:35And, of course, my answer was, well, their deaths were not suspicious, you know,
43:40or there was an explanation for the deaths.
43:42I suppose I found myself, after the trial, really at the centre of this network.
43:58Statisticians, doctors, scientists.
44:01Many of us are working quite closely with Mark McDonald, the lawyer.
44:06Before the retrial, it became apparent that that swipe data was actually incorrect.
44:12Have I been to see Lucy? No.
44:14I think she knows that I exist.
44:17I think she knows that there are a number of people who are working hard to get her out.
44:22So, one of the members of this growing network is a computer scientist who's actually based in the US.
44:39Hi, Stephen. Good to see you.
44:40Hi, Peter. Good seeing you.
44:43Stephen's been doing some really detailed research by reading through the transcripts,
44:51looking into one particular case, the case of Baby C.
44:55Maybe we should just go through this, Baby C, guys, because this is, like,
44:59one of the most unbelievable things I've seen.
45:08Lucy Letby wasn't the designated nurse for Baby C,
45:10but she was on duty and, in fact, she was around a lot of the time when he was sadly passing away.
45:19Prosecution alleged that she injected air into his tummy via his feeding tube
45:23and this caused his tummy to inflate like a balloon
45:27and his diaphragm to splint, which eventually caused him to suffocate.
45:31Basically, what happened is they identified the attack that took place on Baby C as taking place
45:43on the 12th of June. All of the experts, like Dr. Evans, agreed that this attack took place on the
45:4912th of June. They developed a theory, and that theory revolved around an X-ray taken on the 12th of June,
45:56and they said it had too much air, and the explanation was that it was an injection of air.
46:02During the trial, they realised Letby wasn't there, and they're now saying the attack happened in the 13th.
46:09Right. But they're still trying to take the evidence from the 12th.
46:14Right. But what is in evidence is sworn witness testimony saying she wasn't there.
46:20Yes. And at what point did the Prosecution Council realise that there was this mistake, do you think?
46:32So the Prosecution circulated a draft of their opening speech to the media before they gave it.
46:40So in their draft, they said their radiologists identified this harm on the 12th.
46:46But when they talked to the juries, when they actually gave the speech in the transcript,
46:51there's no mention of the day.
46:53Yeah.
46:53So they kept what the radiologists said, and just removed the day, because the day was wrong.
47:02It's kind of, it's quite brazen, what they did there.
47:05Well, you've uncovered something quite remarkable here. What, what do you plan to do with all this?
47:10I've been working with a number of journalists.
47:15Hopefully it should make a splash.
47:19Using this method.
47:20But during the trial, it transpired that Lucy Letby wasn't working on the 12th of June,
47:26when the X-ray was taken.
47:30There's just been a really good Radio 4 documentary.
47:34It transpired that Lucy Letby wasn't on duty.
47:36And it's possibly one of the reasons that the lead prosecution expert, Dr Dowie Evans,
47:42appears to have changed his mind.
47:45And in my email exchange with him, he says he now believes that the babies were only destabilised
47:51by having air injected into the stomach and weren't killed.
47:54Now, to me, that's really serious, because that means the jury was misdirected.
47:57They were told this was the cause of death and it was something else.
48:01The thing I find extraordinary is that Dowie Evans is now saying he's only just finished the final report.
48:07Well over a year after the trial ended.
48:09So that suggests he still hasn't quite got to grips with the case.
48:13And there may be significant doubt as to how BBC died.
48:16Dr Dowie Evans says he's drafted a new report.
48:29So out there is a new report from an expert who's changed his mind.
48:35On a murder case.
48:40I have never known anything like this to happen.
48:47They thought she was there.
48:48They made a mistake.
48:51She wasn't there.
49:00Today is a bit of a game changer.
49:01Mark McDonald managed to get the best experts in the world.
49:05The report demolished the case against her.
49:08People were speechless.
49:09The families are devastated.
49:12I could not believe what I read.
49:14They're hopeless.
49:15And support information can be found online at channel4.com slash support.
49:27And stay with Channel 4.
49:29That next part is coming up.
49:31Or you can stream both parts of Murder or Mistake on Channel 4 whenever you wish.
49:40or two opportunities, cause just to have a Najwa saying,
49:46and if you're at the same time,
49:48It's very few days and to have the same time that you've got free.
49:49For more information, visit.
49:49And if you're at the same time onneysSend.
49:51and maybe or in the next part is from the team.
49:52We'll see you next time.
49:53Call us in thirty-metro.
49:53We'll see you next time.
49:54We'll see you next time.
49:55If you're watching.
49:55We'll see you next time.
49:57We'll see you next time.
49:58Bye-bye.
49:58Bye-bye.
49:58Bye-bye.
50:00Bye-bye.
50:00Bye-bye.
50:03Bye-bye.
50:09Bye-bye.
50:09Bye-bye.
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45:40
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