- 1 week ago
Sex workers, policy-makers, lawyers and the male buyers discuss the pending reforms to the Canadian prostitution laws.
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00:00:00I started getting into buying sex on a regular basis when I was in my late 30s.
00:00:28There are local papers that have advertisements in the back and decided to go see a professional dominatrix.
00:00:37My first lover was a Puerto Rican hooker. I was a sailor. I didn't know any better.
00:00:46So I suppose I've been married for 25 years. I didn't mind having an affair.
00:00:51So I found her on the internet and it was, I suppose, a mind-blowing experience.
00:00:58Do we want a society where men can buy sex? Yes. There's nothing wrong with it.
00:01:16Sex is a commodity. People who think sex is not a commodity are delusional.
00:01:24I've had sex with over 5,300 different clients. Like, I know what I'm talking about here.
00:01:34Ontario sex trade workers celebrate a significant and rare legal victory.
00:01:42I don't believe it. We never get good news like this.
00:01:48This story began when lawyer Alan Young and three sex workers challenged Canada's prostitution laws that make many aspects of sex work illegal.
00:02:00And here's why it's really sinister. We know people are gone missing, have gone missing in Vancouver, in Winnipeg, in Calgary. There's hundreds of them.
00:02:09Justice Susan Himmel agreed with the plaintiffs and their claim that the existing laws put sex workers at risk.
00:02:17We won't have to work in fear and under the gun and on the run. And my colleagues won't show up dead.
00:02:24It was stunning to me that we won. It's completely logical. However, logic doesn't usually enter into any debates around prostitution.
00:02:37There are women in the sex trade that are happy with their work. As counter-intuitive as that sounds to the prohibitionists, there are. And there's many of them.
00:02:47And all they want from this case, and all they wanted from me, is to create a legal regime which doesn't make their job harder.
00:02:54And when I say harder, I'm not just meaning more difficult economically, but harder in terms of risks to physical security.
00:03:01No government, no religion, no army in history has ever been able to stop sex workers.
00:03:10For two simple reasons. Sex and money. If you want to stop sex workers, you have to stop sex and you have to stop money.
00:03:25Do you think you're up for that job?
00:03:35For 15 years, I was a hooker. And a lot of it was my identity.
00:03:43And women, who do we have as our role model? Marilyn Monroe, Betty Booth, fucking Jessica Rabbit.
00:03:50So you do have no right to come here and call down women who choose to do what they want to do. So fuck yourself.
00:03:58Yeah, exactly. I'll pay for all your plane tickets to go to Bangkok and maybe tell you a problem there. This is a strip club.
00:04:04Our problem isn't with the girls. People will work across the street going and have a beer there.
00:04:08Our problem isn't with the girls. The oldest profession is actually farming. And it's not inevitable. It's not.
00:04:16That same argument was made about domestic violence. I mean, just because we have things with us all the time, does that mean we don't try working against it?
00:04:31As we stated in the press release, we're all deeply troubled by the decision handed down by Judge Himmel.
00:04:37We know from our lives truths that we shared that it was not the laws that beat and raped us. It was men. It was not the location that made us unsafe. It was the men we were in that location with that were unsafe. We have to interfere with the unchecked male demand for paid sex.
00:05:01My big umbrella goal is to see Canada adopt the Nordic mall of law, the Swedish mall of law. Sweden criminalized the demand for paid sex, pimping, procuring and trafficking. And they decriminalized the women.
00:05:23So they looked at it from a women's equality standpoint and as a violence against women issue.
00:05:31The real question for me is this. Does prostituting women make them equal? And the answer to that question is no.
00:05:40Why are there so many women with fetal alcohol syndrome, women with addictions, poor, young, aboriginal or racialized women in prostitution?
00:05:51The vast majority of prostituted persons are women, in fact. And certainly, you know, we know that the buyers are almost exclusively men. So prostitution is gendered in that very kind of obvious, structured way.
00:06:08And in fact, in most cities, you're far more likely to be charged and convicted as the prostituted woman than you are as the buyer. So that is something that I think…
00:06:17The abolitionist position, the position of the women's movement, has always been that this is not about personal morality, whatever that might be. That this is about power, which is something quite different.
00:06:31Mr. Speaker, prostitution is a problem that harms individuals and it harms communities. And this is why I'm pleased to indicate to the House that the government will appeal and will seek a stay on that decision.
00:06:46Mr. They just deny the existence of my people. And I don't understand that these are real people with real problems involving the law who have made a free will choice to sell their bodies.
00:06:59Mr. Well, I've always liked the sex industry. When I was a little kid, there'd be an old Western movie on TV. And the cowboys' wives, they always lived on the outskirts of town in some rundown shack. And the cowboy bossed them around. And they were in these raggy old dresses with a couple of babies hanging squalling off.
00:07:28Mr. Like, I didn't want that. But the saloon girl. I was intrigued.
00:07:37Mr. They were in the center of town. They knew it was going on. There was music. Sometimes they'd get to own the saloon. That was more my style.
00:07:50Mr. The first professional dancing costume I ever had made was that saloon girl.
00:07:57Mr. I was about 16 or so. Like, people want to go on about how it was abuse in their minds, but maybe, but not in mine. And I think that's the most important thing. And I think that's the most important thing. And I think that's the most important thing.
00:08:19Mr. And I do not believe that all sex workers, including myself, are delusional.
00:08:28Mr. I would have said I chose it. I would have said, like, there was a point in my life, probably in my really early twenties, when I loved it. It was great. It was fun. It was a party. And I really, I would have said I choose it. In that singular moment.
00:08:52Mr. But you can't, it's not about a singular moment. It's about, it's about all the moments that got you to that place.
00:09:05Mr. I didn't think it was strange. I didn't think it was, it was wrong until I remember in like grade five or grade six or something, we had a constable or something come in and talk about good touching and bad touching. And I was just floored that this was the bad touching, you know. It never occurred to me until then.
00:09:24Mr. You always knew. It just didn't seem quite right. But you never actually voiced your opinion in my house.
00:09:31Mr. I mean, I was already sleeping with people to get high or drink by the time I was twelve. And then when I went to my first group home, I just got shown, I guess, the official ropes.
00:09:46Mr. I never knew what you did, but I told everyone you worked in a bar.
00:09:51Mr. That's what I told you. That's what I told everyone.
00:09:53Mr. But I didn't, I didn't know what you did there. And that's all I knew.
00:09:59Mr. When did you find out?
00:10:01Mr. I figured it out eventually. It's not that hard. Your mom works at a bar, is coming home at two o'clock in the morning every day.
00:10:08Mr. I mean, I've always done it on my own financially. Not a dime of child support.
00:10:15Mr. My wife, she hasn't been in my bed for ten years. So, and that's not because we're not friends. We're very close. We travel together, we talk together, we work together, we do a lot of things together.
00:10:34Mr. For whatever reason, her sex drive is essentially non-existent and mine isn't.
00:10:40Mr. I really don't want to get involved in another relationship. You know? Too much work and too much compromise.
00:10:49Mr. I just melted. I went from being terrified to within minutes going, this is so right. You know?
00:10:57Mr. And probably, if it had been with just an average person who had the same level of experience, it might have been a nervous nightmare.
00:11:08So, time to bring in the professional. You know, the artiste.
00:11:12Mr. I know that our opponents talk about what kind of men go see sex workers. And look at your husbands. Look at your brothers. And look at your sons. Like, this is who we see.
00:11:33It has been argued here that Canada's laws are what makes prostitution unsafe. For them, there is no talk of the large systemic issues that force women into prostitution.
00:11:51No talk of the societal harm, emotional harm, mental harm, spiritual harm. It is the Johns we must shift our gaze to, for they have gone unnoticed for far too long, lost in the noisy argument of women's personal choice.
00:12:10Mr. Do you know who this is? No. It's Brenda Wolf's daughter. It's my daughter. It was startling to see just how much Angel looked like her mom.
00:12:23Mr. Really? I love hearing you speak. I really loved it.
00:12:27Mr. It's such an honor and a pleasure to meet you.
00:12:33Mr. I knew Angel's mom in the downtown east side when there was a lot of us talking about Picton and a lot of us talking about how we had friends who were going missing and who wouldn't be seen again. And then we didn't see her again.
00:12:52Mr. In that apartment? And your mom used to always come and hang out there.
00:12:59I was, like, still in elementary school when it first came out, the whole trial. Everybody knew that, like, oh, her mom was, like, a prostitute who worked on the street and, you know, shot up heroin, this and that.
00:13:13And it was just that stereotype that I didn't want to be a part of. So I wouldn't self-identify that I was Native. I didn't, you know, I wasn't proud to be my mom's daughter.
00:13:23I had a huge hatred for her because I couldn't understand why she chose that life over us.
00:13:31Robert Picton took advantage of the vulnerable and dispossessed and took them out to his farm and would be charged with killing 26 of them, convicted of six. And there's a lot of suspicion that he killed many more of than just those 26.
00:13:56I have to forgive her now that, well, that wasn't who she was. It makes me sad in a way that it is the 19th annual walk. The fact that this has been happening for so long that these women keep on going missing and no one's doing anything.
00:14:25You know, really needs to stop.
00:14:31Yeah, it's the men who yield the knife. The question in the case is, is the law complicit in this? And the law is complicit in this because it takes away strategies that women can use to protect themselves from the predators. The law doesn't cause anything. The law's an abstraction.
00:14:49It creates a framework within which you make decisions. And this framework takes away the decisions you need to avoid the Gary Ridgeways, the Joel Rifkins, the Arthur Shaw crosses, the Robert Pictons, the Yorkshire Ripper. I can go on and on. They all preyed on street women. Maybe some of those women could have opened a door and avoided it.
00:15:09The lessons from Picton were not that we ought to have more brothels. He was running a sort of brothel for himself and his friends.
00:15:15You know, the lessons of Picton are that we need to take male violence against women seriously and that prostitution is a part of that. We need to stop the men from coming in and scooping up these women, you know, to take them back and abuse them in exchange for money and drugs.
00:15:37And drugs. That's the problem here. It's unacceptable that we have a population of disposable women that can be used in this way.
00:15:46What happened to your back, boo? Probably got in a fight. I've been scrapping. I've been trying to stay out of them. I really do. I'm getting old.
00:16:00Well, Angel is a woman I've known for 17 years. For years we worked together.
00:16:09Black hair now, which is good. Honey, you need to get that looked at.
00:16:13Oh, it's nothing. What?
00:16:17Can you make a fist yet? Well, yeah. Oh, yeah. You're well on your way. You're fine.
00:16:23It was dangerous. As dangerous then as it is now. But this is what I know.
00:16:33My mom had her own addictions and did what she thought she had to do and what was taught to her.
00:16:40And so when I was 11, my mom put me out on the street. Not on the street. Like, she would go to the street and bring people home, right?
00:16:52And that's how I... And that was in the hotels here too, so... I haven't talked about it in a long time.
00:17:03I never ever once said I wanted to be a prostitute. We're made.
00:17:11Most of us are aboriginal down here, so they're just like me.
00:17:19It's our old piece of real estate.
00:17:24We owned it. Right? This was ours.
00:17:28Well, here and down there. I worked up there.
00:17:31There's no traffic here, though, anymore. No.
00:17:33I don't know, maybe... We used to come here and it was like constant traffic.
00:17:38Yeah.
00:17:39No one drove down these roads except for single mailing cars.
00:17:43I honestly believe there's nothing wrong with what I'm doing.
00:17:50Would you have come to that decision if you had grown up free from an abusive household and grown up in a loving household?
00:18:01Well, that's an entirely other situation. How are you... Now you're saying abolish prostitution, but also abolish abuse and abolish, you know, and we thought that would definitely be good, you know?
00:18:10But I think... Too many kids get hurt.
00:18:12I know, which is why we have to say to men you can't buy women because we shouldn't be allowing them to exploit abused children.
00:18:18Abuse children.
00:18:19These could be guys that are out looking for me now, right?
00:18:25That would have raped their daughter or their neighbor's daughter or their son or whatever, but instead of doing that, they go for a drive and they find one of us.
00:18:35I am not willing to allow an abused child who grew up into an abused woman be offered up as some sort of sacrifice in order to save another child.
00:19:00This is a sex worker led plan.
00:19:02We don't want people to be coerced into this business and we don't want any kind of violence and deception and we're trying to bring it out into the sunlight here.
00:19:15I think the best model currently in the world is New Zealand.
00:19:20The world's oldest profession is now legal in New Zealand, but the move to decriminalize prostitution squeezed in by only one vote.
00:19:27The change means charging for sex or living off the proceeds is legal, but hiring an under 18 year old won't be.
00:19:34The law also allows sex workers to say no, a key reason former prostitute Georgina Byer backed the bill.
00:19:40It would have been nice to have known that instead of having to deal out the justice myself afterwards to that person, I may have been able to approach the authorities, the police in this case, and say I was raped.
00:19:53The criminalization means we have very limited laws that discriminate against sex workers.
00:20:06We have a model where sex workers have a lot of options.
00:20:10They can work for themselves, they can work in managed brothels or they can work on the street.
00:20:15So, you know, they're free like any other worker in that way.
00:20:22There are some people who want to get out, but there are others who say look I'm really happy, I'm comfortable doing this.
00:20:28Afternoon, Paradise, Fiona speaking. What sort of age group darling are you looking for? Excellent, wonderful. Are you looking for blonde or brunette?
00:20:39What sort of size are you looking for honey? It's $160 for half an hour, at the moment we have a Christmas special of $180 for the hour.
00:20:47Alright, thank you very much, bye.
00:20:50Nah, cock.
00:20:52He sounded rough, ready, he wants someone young, under the age of, you know, as young as he can get them, which always raises alarm bells for me.
00:21:01And the other one that raises alarm bells, new to the industry, you know, the girl that is new to the industry wants to be the first client, because then she doesn't know the rules.
00:21:08The clients here know that I teach the girls the rules before they even go in the room. So there's no misbehaving.
00:21:18I'm mum to a lot of the girls.
00:21:21Jazz and I say that it's the Fiona basket home for wayward girls.
00:21:25Because we all kind of end up here.
00:21:27We all have to make the same sort of situations at all.
00:21:29I wouldn't work anywhere else, because everywhere else it's just a business. You're just stock, that's all you are.
00:21:33They're shifting units, they don't care about you as a person.
00:21:36Like, you know, I'm very fair. But it comes down to it, if I say something, I expect it to be done.
00:21:41I don't expect to be backlit.
00:21:43I will not cast a blind eye for drugs.
00:21:45You do drugs in my establishment, yeah, that's when you really see the wrath.
00:21:50You know, it is a business, and I am the boss.
00:21:53I've got to make sure the personality and the style fits in with what we do as well.
00:21:57Um, with you it was easy.
00:21:59You were exactly what I was looking for.
00:22:00I said to Carmen the two days before, I need a blonde, I need someone under 20, I need a size 6 to 8.
00:22:05It was like the recruitment fairy came along.
00:22:08So, if you guys find anyone that is a brunette, under 20, a size 6 to 8, that's what I need next.
00:22:15And the marketing is important.
00:22:16So, like, we've got a marketing plan, so we know where we're going to put our money towards marketing.
00:22:20And who we're going to market, and how we're going to market.
00:22:23Each girl's a little bit different.
00:22:24I mean, Carmen being a lovely, exotic, dark girl is a little bit different, but she does a great submissive with mistress.
00:22:33The porn star experience is she uses all the toys that are in the room that you've seen, and it's a really erotic experience.
00:22:39Now, a girlfriend experience is a hand job, a blow job, and straight sex. That's how we sell it.
00:22:48It depends on what the client is wanting, and that way we match up to the girl.
00:22:54Because our client base is probably guys from about 30, 45-ish is like the main group of people.
00:23:02And most of them say that if it was illegal, they wouldn't do it.
00:23:05You know, they're mostly like corporate guys, self-employed, clean-cut, nice people, who are just sort of sneaking out for lunch, because they've had a boring day.
00:23:17I have a great marriage. My wife I love dearly. She loves me.
00:23:23However, she is very vanilla in the way she likes to make love.
00:23:30And I guess as a guy, you know, sometimes we want something a bit different or a bit extra.
00:23:37I don't rationalise it by saying, oh, I'm helping her get through university, or I'm helping a solo mum support three kids or whatever.
00:23:47I don't need to rationalise it like that. I've gone way past that stage. To me, it's a business transaction.
00:23:53It's usually fairly very, very active, less conversation, very messy, multiple positions, all the services, anal, things like that.
00:24:09Well, with this job, I think the most important things are impeccable grooming and a really strong stomach.
00:24:15I was into some pretty kinky stuff before I started working, so, bit of a non-issue.
00:24:26In terms of people in this industry, like, I'm not that young. Like, hookers age and dog years.
00:24:30But I mean, I'm, you know, well-educated, I've got my degrees, I've got lots of work experience.
00:24:34I could do lots of other things if I wanted to, but I felt more used and exploited working a minimum wage job,
00:24:42where I get ten-minute lunch breaks, than I do doing this and doing what I want,
00:24:46and having the financial stability to, sort of, you know, own a house in less than two years if I want.
00:24:52So, for me, this is the best option.
00:24:57I was studying a Bachelor of Nursing, did the first year of it,
00:25:01and I'll probably go back and do the second year next year.
00:25:06Thank you, Mum.
00:25:07I've been, sort of, portrayed as the girl next story, kind of,
00:25:14because I'm the young one and I'm the new one,
00:25:16and that's the sort of story that I act up to a little bit,
00:25:22but it's pretty much just whatever the client wants, really.
00:25:29I'm now Samantha, and I'm going to see a man that is quite odd.
00:25:39Good girl.
00:25:41Proud of you.
00:25:43We run a VIP membership programme.
00:25:46Every time they get a booking, they give me the number,
00:25:50and they actually get their eleventh booking free of charge.
00:25:55It's part of their VIP programme.
00:25:58It's good.
00:25:59It's just like, you know, buy ten coffees, get one free.
00:26:04This is his eleventh free.
00:26:06What it makes me understand is that those women aren't feeling
00:26:16that they have other sufficient economic options,
00:26:21and that's where I need the society, the culture to move to.
00:26:28Isn't it interesting that nobody introduces things like cost-benefit analyses
00:26:40into these debates?
00:26:42These are hugely economic debates, both at micro and macro level,
00:26:47because we have things like, from the moment student loans were introduced,
00:26:53women students have determined that one of the fastest ways
00:26:56to pay off their loans is as a sex worker, and they're quite right.
00:27:00I mean, the Students' Association of New Zealand are able to demonstrate
00:27:04that it takes New Zealand women graduates
00:27:08six to seven years longer than men with the same degree
00:27:12to pay off their loans, and these women are trying to short-circuit it.
00:27:18Hands and knees.
00:27:20Front leg back.
00:27:21Back.
00:27:22Front leg back.
00:27:25Think sex.
00:27:26Think naughty.
00:27:28Yeah, I'm Steve Crowe.
00:27:29I've been in the adult industry since 93.
00:27:32A little bit closer, a little bit straight, and then just slight bend,
00:27:35and then push your ass out.
00:27:37Boobs out, butts out, boobs and bums.
00:27:39I own New Zealand's largest adult magazine
00:27:41and the largest distribution company of pornographic DVDs and toys.
00:27:45That's enough.
00:27:46A few months ago we bought an escort directory.
00:27:52Okay, so you want to change Nancy's ad?
00:27:55Just with Asian lady on it, not with her name.
00:27:59The traffic is phenomenal.
00:28:02I mean, for a site in New Zealand to get 35,000 unique visitors a week is huge.
00:28:06And I'll be just basically overseeing the sales process with the girls.
00:28:11Rachel will be managing the club side of it, as in dealing with the clubs.
00:28:16And this is my partner and fiancee Rachel Whitwell.
00:28:21You're welcome.
00:28:23Now you can say your own name.
00:28:25I'll give you permission.
00:28:26Oh really?
00:28:27Yeah.
00:28:28Hi, I'm Rachel.
00:28:29The only sort of dodgy thing that I've found from doing that job is the people that possibly might not be legal here in New Zealand.
00:28:40Yeah.
00:28:42And I photographed one Asian girl and she had like so many bruises and I just thought, hmm, that's, you know, I don't like that.
00:28:49Yeah.
00:28:50And because they don't speak English and that person's interpreting for them you think, oh, you know, is this a choice thing?
00:28:57Yeah, even if you like, if you can get into the money.
00:29:00Obviously, the primary reason to get into it is money.
00:29:03You know, it's a business. We're here to make money.
00:29:06Steve, what's the busiest parlour that you know that a girl could go and work for tonight?
00:29:13Depends how good looking she is.
00:29:15Really, how good looking are you, do you think, you know, on a scale of one to ten?
00:29:20More and more girls are turning to the sex industry to earn a living because, quite frankly, they're struggling to survive.
00:29:27You know, it used to be ten years ago.
00:29:30It was quite hard in a small country like New Zealand to get girls to do explicit photo shoots.
00:29:36Now we turn them down.
00:29:37I mean, we're getting them every day, every week.
00:29:40Girls wanted to do nude photo shoots for us.
00:29:42Girls that never would have in the past.
00:29:43I mean, if you go to the White House or any of the clubs, they will say that, you know, they're getting a higher calibre of girl coming in to dance.
00:29:52I built the White House in 2000.
00:29:57We've got Bill on the front door when we walk in.
00:30:00The reason for Bill is I think he was always a good guy.
00:30:02And a little bit because he's a naughty guy and we're all naughty guys and some of us get away with it.
00:30:10But poor Bill got caught.
00:30:12Who else is up there?
00:30:14I've got two businesses.
00:30:15One is a striptease club and the other is a massage parlor.
00:30:22Generally, you might come from the White House upstairs, you walk downstairs, so you look at it up there, you have it down here.
00:30:27Main course, desert.
00:30:33I don't want to call my place a brothel.
00:30:36I can call it Monarchus.
00:30:38To other people it might not be a perfect name, but it suits my, um, my White House, basically.
00:30:48But there is no way our government put any thought into this legalisation.
00:30:53You've got millions of dollars getting spent right now trying to adjust things that are going wrong.
00:30:58There's still girls getting murdered.
00:31:00There's more prostitution on the street than ever.
00:31:03Most of our girls that have left now since the legalisation go and open up little places all over the place.
00:31:10You've got hundreds of people going everywhere else but here.
00:31:13And this is where the money's been spent.
00:31:14In some ways it's the easiest money you can make, but in other ways it's the hardest money you'll make.
00:31:30Because the managers will say, oh it's just great, it's fine and lovely here, you'll make $5,000 a night.
00:31:39It's bullshit.
00:31:40Yeah, it's kind of hard to get your head around sleeping with, you know, ten guys in one night and not knowing them and it can mess with your head a wee bit.
00:31:53Yeah, I couldn't imagine working on the street.
00:31:55I don't want to work in a brothel. I don't want to get naked in a bedroom and have guys molest me.
00:32:04I want to keep my clothes on. I want in and out. I want, I'm in control.
00:32:08You know, so out here I can handle that.
00:32:10But if I'm in a brothel, oh what am I going to do, line a bed? No thank you.
00:32:14You know, then I want some pimp ruling my life. I've been there, done that.
00:32:19Out here I'm in control.
00:32:20I've been a Māori warden for about 14 years.
00:32:31Māori wardens have certain authorities to work with in the community.
00:32:37You prevent drunkenness and disorderly behaviour.
00:32:41I supported the rights of the street workers to do what they're doing if they so choose.
00:32:48Because they've got no other way of surviving adequately.
00:32:56Just about all of them.
00:32:58Prostituting on the streets.
00:33:00Māori or Pacific Island women.
00:33:05They wouldn't be able to get by in a brothel.
00:33:07The women know it's dangerous.
00:33:13They know that they could get beaten up or worse.
00:33:18So if they didn't have to do it, why the heck do you think they do it?
00:33:22I've seen them here, time after time, going round and round the streets, looking at all the girls.
00:33:31And they consistently go for the younger, fresher ones.
00:33:36You know, you can't have prostitutes if you haven't got clients.
00:33:41That's the reality.
00:33:45So maybe they need to look at that.
00:33:48But if that's the case, where are these girls going to get money to survive?
00:33:52Thank God I'm not a politician.
00:33:54So what was happening here is the prostitutes would come up in this beautiful old homestead.
00:34:08And they would conduct their business right there.
00:34:14And so when you came out the next day to collect your paper, you had condoms littered.
00:34:21You know, you're small, you're exposed, you're open.
00:34:25And so the prostitutes were coming here.
00:34:30I supported the beginning because I thought this was going to make prostitutes safer.
00:34:35And we can actually create these small owner operated businesses.
00:34:38That if you don't want to go into a brothel, you can in fact have a prostitute working in their home.
00:34:46And that would be alright.
00:34:49And so you were thinking pretty much you would get them indoors.
00:34:53You would get them out off the street.
00:34:58If that's the best we can do for our young people,
00:35:02offer them a life on the streets doing this, because it's their choice.
00:35:06What kind of society are we?
00:35:10Is this what you aim for?
00:35:18New Zealand's given us in the short term
00:35:21what's the most logistical and strategic way
00:35:26to move on decriminalisation, to move on health risks,
00:35:31to move on some human rights,
00:35:33to move around actually taxing the underground economy.
00:35:37It's short term, but I want to hope that we will be able to keep building and making and framing societies
00:35:49where no man or woman feels they have to do this,
00:35:53where no children are sold into this.
00:35:56When an Ontario court struck down three key laws on prostitution,
00:36:11it set off a discussion that rocketed from one end of the country to the other.
00:36:14Here's what was struck down.
00:36:17The provisions against communication for the purpose of prostitution.
00:36:20Living off the avails of prostitution and keeping a common body house.
00:36:25Now Ottawa is appealing the decision, but if the decision stands,
00:36:30prostitution, pimping and brothels could become completely legal in Ontario.
00:36:34We want to know what you think. Call us.
00:36:38No, prostitution should not be legalized.
00:36:41If you really want to help prostitutes, the best way is to provide them with detoxification opportunities.
00:36:48The judge is a hero.
00:36:50This whole thing is ludicrous.
00:36:51It gives men the go-ahead to purchase women.
00:36:55Yes, prostitution has always been with us and always will be with us,
00:37:00but I'm against it because it leads to harm to the social fabric.
00:37:05Working indoors is the safest possible opportunity.
00:37:08It gives sex workers the ability to control the conditions of their work to increase safety.
00:37:13That was a lot of two hours. Holy crap.
00:37:16Why?
00:37:17But it's good, right? Because you figure out what we need to highlight,
00:37:22the truth that needs to come out, and what people get, right?
00:37:26It's always good to have a little dose of both sides.
00:37:30I did not realize the damage that had been done to me as much as it was until I left.
00:37:36There's people who come in and want fetishes, they want you to act like their daughters,
00:37:40they want spankings, they want the most disgusting stuff,
00:37:44but now it's justifiable because now it's legal.
00:37:47I'm not doing anything wrong, you know, it's okay to do this.
00:37:50Because we know what we lived through.
00:37:52We know the repercussions today, what we went through, and you know,
00:37:56that's what we need to bring to the table.
00:37:59We need to bring our experiences.
00:38:00Let's see what we can do. I don't have to spend a lot of time off this.
00:38:19It's in the reports.
00:38:20Okay, let's see what we've got here.
00:38:23I need to recapture control. It's very important for me, maybe more psychologically than, you know, strategically.
00:38:32I'm going to start with occupation at risk. But see, my point is, I'm going to show what's not in dispute.
00:38:36And I'm going to move very quickly, so I don't want to be melodramatic, but this has to be looked at because you have to understand the gravity of the harm.
00:38:45It's not about getting scratched in a parking lot.
00:38:47And that everything the Crown is doing is smoke and mirrors, because ultimately when you look at the evidence, it's solid, and what they're saying was disregarded as bullshit.
00:38:58That's it. It was nothing.
00:39:00It was a fast day.
00:39:02Nothing.
00:39:04Maybe I won't work tonight.
00:39:09Here's the secret I want to tell you.
00:39:12People don't come to me to do the case. I go to them.
00:39:15I come up with the issue, I come up with the argument, and then I find the right people for the case.
00:39:22And so that's what happened here.
00:39:25Initially, it was Terry Jean.
00:39:28Prime Minister Harper, you've been a very, very bad, bad boy.
00:39:32And I'm not afraid of you, but you're afraid of me, because he's supposed to take care of all of his citizens, great and small.
00:39:40And for him to feel that he has no need to protect these women, he's acting like a deadbeat dad.
00:39:46She's a very quirky, nice person, and her life story demonstrated my case.
00:39:52And then I remember reading about Val, because Val was an advocate.
00:39:59We're doing well. We are doing really well in there.
00:40:02I thought she was a very good spokesperson on this issue.
00:40:06Like, she really knew what to say, the right things to say, and not histrionic.
00:40:10And she so much wanted to be part of it.
00:40:14They're giving him a hard time. They've read our materials, and they're giving him a really hard time.
00:40:17I know they're going to give Alan a hard time, too.
00:40:20The problem was, the court would say, I don't have standing to challenge the law, because the two women, Scott and Bedford, were currently not working.
00:40:27So a court could take the view, I'm only going to make a decision for someone that it impacts immediately.
00:40:32I didn't agree with that, by the way, but that was fine.
00:40:35So I said, Val, find me someone currently working.
00:40:39And that's how Amy came on board.
00:40:42They're important people for the case, but it was pretty much whoever was available to be able to stand up for themselves.
00:40:52I find the Crown's arguments convoluted and not making logical sense.
00:40:58Because if we change things, it might make things worse.
00:41:03He says there's no proof. He is wrong.
00:41:07We have New Zealand that decriminalized in 2003.
00:41:11So, come on, don't tell me there's no proof. There's lots of it.
00:41:16It's really neat getting to talk to you guys. You're so well-spoken.
00:41:19Thank you. Some wonderful clips.
00:41:20Great.
00:41:22Well, I'd like to throw out a few stand bites when I get the chance, okay?
00:41:25Yeah.
00:41:26I think they've got some good clips in my pocket.
00:41:35Today's the day that the interveners present our case.
00:41:39They're all the national heads of women's organizations that have come together to take a stand
00:41:45and get the true picture of prostitution read into the courts and the version of law that we all support.
00:41:54The Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Society, Native Women's Association, Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres,
00:42:00the Francophone Women's Centres, and Clay in Montreal.
00:42:05And, you know, their mission is really to deal with the aftermath of prostitution and what men do to women in prostitution.
00:42:13And as they try to pick up the pieces and advocate for change, we're here to say that it's simply not acceptable that the male demand is completely decriminalized.
00:42:24Once you decriminalize that demand, then it validates the need to produce a supply.
00:42:29It's the most difficult part of this whole issue is to get the focus shifted off the women in this kind of dissection of their motives
00:42:39and whether they're enjoying it and all of those kinds of issues, to actually focus on the men who are profiting and who are buying.
00:42:50You're going to reduce demand?
00:42:53This is an instinctive drive.
00:42:55I'm sorry, you can't do that.
00:42:57We can't rewrite human nature.
00:42:58People have an instinctive drive to sex.
00:43:01If you don't have a safe, healthy outlet within your interpersonal relationship, many people are going to seek it out of commercial market.
00:43:08If she feels you can eradicate that, let's make her Prime Minister.
00:43:12We are the product of 100,000 years of evolution and we are hardwired to think a certain way.
00:43:20And no amount of puritanical laws and shaming is going to change that.
00:43:30Bareback blowjobs.
00:43:32Come in mouth.
00:43:34French kissing.
00:43:35Um, let's see, I do like a lot of caressing, maybe some erotic massage, you know, things like that.
00:43:47They should be really, really, really, really, really thanking these girls that are out there making a living doing this for keeping their husbands from leaving home and destroying the family and not supporting the kids and all that other stuff.
00:44:00It's worth a couple hundred bucks once every couple of weeks for him to go and get his jollies somewhere else.
00:44:06Especially if she doesn't want to sleep with him anymore.
00:44:08This is the Picton legacy is what people are saying is this case needs to go ahead because of the horrific thing that happened in Vancouver.
00:44:20So I worked with Picton's victims.
00:44:22I worked beside them.
00:44:24My friends were the ones that were found on his farm.
00:44:27Um, I covered his trial as a reporter for a year.
00:44:30And I can honestly say that what we need to do in the legacy of Picton's victims is criminalize the mail demand.
00:44:39If there was no mail demand, my friends would not have been on the streets.
00:44:43I would not have been on the streets.
00:44:45We need to set laws that create a positive environment for Canada to work towards.
00:44:52That creates a new Canada that we can work towards.
00:44:55And one that errs on the side of the quality.
00:45:01Pardon me?
00:45:03Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:04The stay is extended until ordered otherwise, which really means until the judgment comes down.
00:45:09We didn't come here today to commercialize prostitution.
00:45:11That's what the government says.
00:45:13We've come here to open up really rudimentary safety measures.
00:45:17Hire a bodyguard.
00:45:18That's not creating a huge corporate structure for prostitution.
00:45:21Hire a bodyguard.
00:45:23Work in your home, behind closed doors, in a safe and secure environment for yourself.
00:45:27But it's more than the government making that argument.
00:45:29It's ex-workers.
00:45:31What do you say about their fears that this is going to increase recruitment?
00:45:34I say to these people, I'm sorry for what happened to you.
00:45:37But don't extrapolate from your experience into public policy.
00:45:40There's a huge gap between the two things.
00:45:42Can you call the name and spelling service?
00:45:44Alan Young. A-L-A-N-Y-O-U-N-G.
00:45:46Thanks Alan.
00:45:47Okay, everybody good? Okay.
00:45:48Can I talk to you now about the thing I'm going to do somewhere?
00:45:51Yeah, but really quickly because I got a lot.
00:45:53If we pass the Swedish Mall of Law tomorrow, a Canadian version,
00:45:57it's not going to eliminate prostitution in a heartbeat.
00:46:00It's not like every man's all of a sudden going to zip up his pants and say no more
00:46:04and every prostitute is going to say, okay, getting a different job.
00:46:07But it's about creating legacy.
00:46:10And this is for my daughter.
00:46:13This is for my grandchildren.
00:46:18Let's talk to the police.
00:46:21Let's see how they enforce.
00:46:23If it's helped what they do.
00:46:26And let's talk to men.
00:46:27Riksdagen beslutade idag att köp av sexuella tjänster ska kriminaliseras.
00:46:36Den nya lag som från årsskiftet kriminaliserar den som köper eller försöker köpa sexuella tjänster
00:46:43märks redan av tydligt.
00:46:45Enligt de poliser som arbetar vid det kända prostitutionsstråket Malmskinnandsgatan i Stockholm
00:46:50så har bara ett fåtal prostituerade och kunder varit synliga där de senaste nätterna.
00:46:56Polisen fruktar dock att sexhandeln nu istället kommer att flytta inomhus
00:47:00eller ske via mobiltelefon.
00:47:02Riksdagen
00:47:19Riksdagen
00:47:22En av de mest friskaste frågorna är att du kan ställa prostitution undergrunden med den här typen av
00:47:28men även före regeringen,
00:47:30mest av prostitutionsaktiviteten har blivit innehållt.
00:47:34De köparens kan hitta vänner i prostitutions
00:47:37och då kan de polisen också kunna göra det.
00:47:40Vi kan inte säga att de köparens är smarter än de polisen.
00:47:42Om polisen vill se hur prostitutions skickas, så kan de.
00:47:48Vi är två teamer som jobbar under cover med surveillance 24x7.
00:47:54Vi använder vår intelligens för att se vad gruppen är aktiva i Stockholm
00:47:59och då börjar vi följa dem.
00:48:03Följa dem på utgångarna.
00:48:06Följa dem.
00:48:09Följa dem.
00:48:11Följa dem,
00:48:14Följa dem på utgångar
00:48:16och använda största köparens och kameran.
00:48:22Och genom dokumentation käsar vi en skалиhetskal Syndrome
00:48:27Det är 30 år hormoner
00:48:32och en feministiska movern
00:48:36Mann weekends
00:48:37the buying of sexual services, and also why should we criminalise only the buyer?
00:48:45The main, actually, principle is that you want women to leave prostitution, therefore
00:48:50you should not put extra burden on them, also criminalising them.
00:48:57Very often the woman in prostitution is socially marginalised and maybe ethnically too, economically,
00:49:05while the buyer, we have a lot of research regarding the buyers, and very often middle-aged
00:49:11men married, having families, kids, a steady job, a steady income, and then you can easily
00:49:19see who is in power here.
00:49:23With this law we reduce acts of violence against women, and we also can save women's lives.
00:49:32It's dangerous, here, but you can look, you know, and I can see.
00:49:43They can give us the opportunity to see our mind as a prostitute.
00:49:47We have to say to them that they should not be taking our customers from us.
00:49:53We have big difficulties now.
00:49:54Yeah, they should not be taking money from the men, they are harassing the men, now the
00:49:58men are scared to come to the streets to take girls from the streets.
00:50:04Of course it scares them away, and there has been a lot of surveys also that shows that
00:50:09if you ask sex buyers what would make them stop.
00:50:13The first thing is legislation, and the other thing is shame games.
00:50:17If their names are to be put up or that they could be identified as buyers.
00:50:27I became interested in buyers in the late 70s here in the city where I worked in the streets
00:50:35as a social worker among prostitutes.
00:50:38And some men actually phoned us and were concerned that we stole their women, took them away from
00:50:43them.
00:50:44And then I became obviously interested in, you know, what is the need?
00:50:48But it's interesting to point out that if we look at the Scandinavian countries, it's
00:50:53about 13-14% of men in Scandinavia say that they have this type of experience.
00:51:00If we look at Germany, we're talking about 45-50%.
00:51:04If you look at Thailand, we're talking about 75%.
00:51:09So if there was a sort of a component of sex drive that was like sort of biologically,
00:51:19a part of the biological constitution, those figures wouldn't vary though so much.
00:51:26The way that sexuality expresses itself is more of a social and cultural construction than
00:51:31anything else.
00:51:37If they grow up in a context where it's part of the rite de passage to become a man, to
00:51:44go with your uncle to a brothel, you know, the message is that this is part of your life,
00:51:51you know, this is necessary for you to become a man.
00:51:54As opposed to society where people say that this is nothing we do here.
00:51:59To buy sex is not allowed in this society.
00:52:03We do it in another way.
00:52:06Of course it takes other shapes and forms.
00:52:08You will see that there are other means of prostitution.
00:52:12But I still think it's a good thing.
00:52:14I mean, we're sending a clear signal.
00:52:16It's not okay.
00:52:17They have no right to buy someone.
00:52:20No one has the right to buy another person, I think.
00:52:23People get abused and hurt through that.
00:52:28So that's, I, we just disagree with it.
00:52:33Sorry.
00:52:35Women and men shall have equal power to shape the society and their own lives.
00:52:51They shall earn the same salaries for performing work, equal work or work of equal value.
00:53:01Men and women shall share the responsibility for the home and for the children.
00:53:06You know, the European Commission said that every day millions of women go to work and will be victims of sexual harassment.
00:53:18If men feel that they can sexually harass their colleagues at work, well the next step is to use more or less some violence to have sex with a woman.
00:53:30And the next step is to buy a prostitute's body and then have trafficking in the end of this scale.
00:53:38And there is of course a connection.
00:53:40And that is one reason why we have criminalized buying.
00:53:46Millions of women and some less, but some men also are doing this kind of work with no rights at all.
00:53:57In Sweden we try to support women who are prostitutes.
00:54:01We are giving them medical support, social support, etc.
00:54:05Of course they are entitled to all the support they can get.
00:54:09But that is not the same thing as saying it's okay to buy bodies.
00:54:15It's the women who have had to take the blame for prostitution, you know.
00:54:20Now we try to turn the wheels.
00:54:22Then of course some people look upon this as a way of stigmatizing the buyer.
00:54:27Yes, in a way of course.
00:54:28I mean because we are pointing at the buyers and saying that without the buyers, you know, there would be no prostitution.
00:54:35So you have to take your responsibility now.
00:54:37It's historically just that you do it right now.
00:54:41Without demand the supply isn't going to be there.
00:54:45Without supply the demand can do whatever it wants.
00:54:49You know, if there's nobody willing to do it, well, what are you going to do?
00:54:54I think the Swedes are right.
00:54:56I mean there is a whole level of inequality that's going on there.
00:54:59Well, okay, if you believe that, and I can see no reason not to believe it.
00:55:04It's a totally legitimate argument.
00:55:06But to me that's like saying, I don't believe in abortion, but I refuse to adopt the kids.
00:55:14What kind of crap is that?
00:55:16I mean, if we're going to support them, like they do in Sweden, I'm going to end up paying anyway because they're going to jack the taxes up.
00:55:24So I'm going to get screwed by the government and I'm not going to get screwed by the girl.
00:55:30And I'd much rather get screwed by the girl.
00:55:33I'll go to Copenhagen to Brussels and I'll go by train and taxi.
00:55:48That takes me about half an hour.
00:55:54People were laughing at Sweden saying that men are just going over to Copenhagen from here, you know, just driving across the bridge.
00:56:04I mean, you can't, you know, you can't control that from the Swedish parliament or from the Swedish police office in Malmö.
00:56:13That's part of the whole complexity of the phenomenon because this is a global phenomenon.
00:56:17What we can do here is to go on with this debate and discussion and challenge the whole phenomenon, you know, in different ways and discuss it and open some minds.
00:56:29I think that's very important.
00:56:34My latest film is called Like a Pasha.
00:56:37It was kind of like a result of trying to deconstruct manhood in some ways.
00:56:43So four years ago, there was the soccer world championships in Germany and there was a discussion whether or not Swedish football fans was going to go buying sex.
00:56:55So I followed a group of supporters down in Germany and followed them to this brothel, Pasha, which is the biggest brothel in Europe.
00:57:06They said that it was around like 700, 800 men coming there every day, more on the weekends.
00:57:13It was like a parody of like global oppression, like global inequality.
00:57:22It's like here's the African women, here's the Eastern women, here's the Asian women.
00:57:29And you could look at their prices to see like where they are in the global status chain, you know, like the young German women are, of course, the most expensive ones.
00:57:41And like the older African women are the ones that are the cheapest.
00:57:48How was it?
00:57:51Good, quite good.
00:57:53What's up to you? Don't you like?
00:57:58The film, of course, was put in the context of this debate and the discussion in Sweden and in Europe.
00:58:05But I always wanted to bring it down to the level where it was about the men who came there and why they wanted to buy sex.
00:58:12Men fantasize about having sex with prostitutes and they sometimes say, I don't get any sex at home, you know, and I don't, particularly I don't get the sex that I would like to have.
00:58:26You know, all these other guys get all that kind of sex and I, I seem to be the only one that don't get it, you know.
00:58:33And, of course, here you also have a connection between pornography and prostitution because the fantasies around the kind of sex that other guys have are images that are, you know, portraying pornography.
00:58:46So, so they would be, you know, they would feel that they have, they are entitled, this is, this is, they are entitled to this, you know.
00:58:54You don't have a girlfriend or your girlfriend is not here and you feel a very sexual, strong feeling, you want to have some sex.
00:59:00Just without thinking love or not love, go here, find a girl or this girl I like, spend money, make your sex, go out and finish.
00:59:08You think too deep about the things, you think too deep, you know.
00:59:14Being a man is being tough and being hard and being ready to treat other people bad, you know, and to do this you need to shut off a lot of emotions.
00:59:29Because you need to disable those emotions that make you stop.
00:59:35I mean, if you look at armies and prison system, police systems globally, it's almost 100% men, you know.
00:59:47And I think it's connected that you need to shut off those emotions that would make you stop from hurting other people.
00:59:54And what you sacrifice is closeness to other people.
01:00:01Key law to understand the gender equality debate has nothing to do with prostitution.
01:00:16That's the parental leave reform.
01:00:18That's the most important law that we have in this country when it comes to issues of gender equality, you know.
01:00:25You know, the issue of prostitution is sort of, is a hang around, you know, to the major, interesting, most definite, groundbreaking, cutting edge law, the parental leave reform.
01:00:38How could it not be good for men to be with their kids at home?
01:01:07Still it's women who have been driving that development too, right?
01:01:13And I've been doing this so much now, showing my film and talking about it.
01:01:19And to me it feels like people really, really like to talk about this.
01:01:24The sad part is that it's usually most women who want to understand why men are so obsessed with sex.
01:01:33I feel very emotional.
01:01:36And it's, it can be really, really hard to speak with someone that haven't seen the movie.
01:01:42But I don't feel like having sex tonight, at all.
01:01:47I think what we should work at is a, it's a great, even greater openness towards sexuality in our society.
01:01:56And open up the possibility of talking about sex in a more relaxed manner than, than we do.
01:02:03This is not the gender equality paradise in Sweden.
01:02:09And backlashes we do have.
01:02:11But if we have the ambition to open up for more mutuality, more trust, more experiments and fantastic meetings between men and women, that's the first step.
01:02:24And prostitution is not the answer.
01:02:28It's the cul-de-sac, it's a dead-out street.
01:02:33I've truly been humbled by the men I've met.
01:02:37And how they even envision, in some ways, bigger for women than I could even envision.
01:02:48I don't want to just punish anymore.
01:02:51Men can be men in a way that I had never dreamed possible.
01:02:57And I mean that in a totally different way now, to say I want better for men.
01:03:02I, I think in some ways, and I'm going to get flack for this, but men are just as robbed as their masculinity, as women are of, or equality in a lot of ways in North America.
01:03:21And they're, being robbed of their masculinity, robs us of our equality and you can't, I don't, I don't think you can separate them.
01:03:33I know it's, it's kind of shitty behavior, but I don't think I'm going to stop.
01:03:42I'm widowed.
01:03:44I'm retired.
01:03:45And I'm 60.
01:03:49So I don't have to give a rat's ass what people think.
01:03:52You know?
01:03:54The only way you're going to change it is to castrate them at birth.
01:03:58That might change it.
01:04:01Other than that, you don't have much of a chance.
01:04:03I'm feeling sick to my stomach.
01:04:17I'm really, I'm really hoping that this turns out the way that we're, a lot of us are hoping.
01:04:23Well, we look forward to hearing the news when you come out.
01:04:25Yes.
01:04:26I'm going to go in and see what happens.
01:04:29Okay.
01:04:39Here we go.
01:04:40It's right here.
01:04:41She is right on time.
01:04:44Oh, you're shaking.
01:04:45I've never seen you like this.
01:04:46I'm not shaking.
01:04:47I'm not shaking.
01:04:48I'm fine.
01:04:50I can't get to what I want to read.
01:04:54I can't deal with the stress.
01:04:58And we have two minutes to go.
01:04:59I'm going to throw up.
01:05:03I wish it was hard copy.
01:05:04I'd tell you already what it was.
01:05:08Fuck.
01:05:09Okay.
01:05:10Okay.
01:05:11Okay.
01:05:12Okay.
01:05:132-10, 2-12 are gone.
01:05:14And 2-13 is in.
01:05:152-10.
01:05:16And 2-12 are in.
01:05:17Right?
01:05:18That was what faith I was looking for.
01:05:202-10 and 2-12.
01:05:21So, 2-10 is body health.
01:05:222-12 is sleeping on the avails.
01:05:23I can't get my head going here.
01:05:24They're not striking out communicating.
01:05:25Okay.
01:05:26But the 2-10 and 2-12 are out.
01:05:28Isn't that wonderful?
01:05:29Wow.
01:05:30Long and away.
01:05:31Look at them go.
01:05:32That's great.
01:05:33Okay.
01:05:34So, I guess we won.
01:05:35More or less.
01:05:36We won?
01:05:37We won?
01:05:38More or less.
01:05:39I never wanted to challenge communication in the first place.
01:05:42So, I never thought I would be able to knock it out.
01:05:44He's the mastermind.
01:05:45That's why.
01:05:46Yeah.
01:05:47That's true.
01:05:48Yay!
01:05:49I love that.
01:05:50Woo-hoo!
01:05:51Oh my God.
01:05:52You did it, Alex.
01:05:53Wait a sec!
01:05:54Oh my God.
01:06:01Court rules laws against pimping and brothels unconstitutional, but uphold law against communicating
01:06:24to sell sex.
01:06:25Why would they do that?
01:06:27You can run a body house now and not get charged.
01:06:29Yeah.
01:06:30The only one that stayed was...
01:06:31The communicating for the purpose of prostitution.
01:06:32It was the communicating law that was the law that was really being enforced across Canada,
01:06:45and that was being alleged to have, you know, increased the danger to women in prostitution.
01:06:52And what we end up with is those women continuing to be criminalized, and, you know, the applicants
01:07:02apparently prepared to live with that result.
01:07:05I didn't want to attack communication on the street because I don't think people want sex
01:07:10workers on the street.
01:07:11But there are problems with the communication law, and I'm supposed to represent the interests
01:07:17of sex workers, so I felt I had no choice but to add the third offense to the mix.
01:07:23But when the dust settles, if everything's upheld but body house, then I feel this has been a successful
01:07:30result.
01:07:31I'm waiting for you to tell me what I should say to the press.
01:07:35Okay.
01:07:36Do you have anything planned?
01:07:37Flick my riding crop and say a few zingers.
01:07:40I'm really happy about today or whatever.
01:07:43So, you're happy?
01:07:46Why are you happy?
01:07:47You're happy because, what do you want to say, the court did the right thing?
01:07:51Maybe say this, that you would have been much better off and much safer if this decision
01:08:00had happened 25 years ago when you were in the trade or something.
01:08:05Does that make sense?
01:08:06Yeah.
01:08:07Okay.
01:08:08Yes.
01:08:09Bedford can bring her riding crop, but this is what is used to discipline prostitutes
01:08:13who don't listen to their pimps.
01:08:15It is heated up, it is called a pimp stick, and this is what we're trying to protect our community
01:08:20from.
01:08:21We have changed the face of Canada's prostitution laws, and although there will be detractors
01:08:29who don't understand what's happened, this is actually a good thing for Canada and will
01:08:35take some time for the naysayers to realize that the court has done the right thing.
01:08:41Not everybody will benefit from this decision.
01:08:43There are people who work in the sex trade that are survival sex workers that don't have
01:08:47the wherewithal and the ability to take advantage of it, but the court's saying it doesn't matter,
01:08:52because if we save one life, we've saved a million lives.
01:08:55We have not solved the problem of what goes on in the street, which is a very complicated
01:09:00social political problem.
01:09:03I think Alan Young has just been very clear that this is for the upper echelon, right?
01:09:11So everyone gets what they want, and everyone else is just collateral damage.
01:09:23Except the collateral damage is a lot bigger than those who will see the inside of brothels.
01:09:32I mean, there's so many rules about working in a brothel.
01:09:37None of my friends will make it inside.
01:09:40Aboriginal women won't make it inside.
01:09:42Women who have blonde hair, blue eyes, and big boobs will make it inside.
01:09:47Or, you know, Asian women.
01:09:51There's a very particular type that works indoors.
01:09:55But there's far, far more that will never make it inside the front door.
01:10:04Ms. Linda, why don't you make it inside the front door?
01:10:06Terry Jean, are you going to open up a body house?
01:10:10If anybody wants to underwrite a business, I'll be more than happy to accept your offers.
01:10:17Let's talk about that later, shall we?
01:10:20If I open up a body house, I have registered the name.
01:10:24It is Beaver Meadow Social Club.
01:10:27To showcase the fact that we are Canadian, and that we are friendly.
01:10:32Let's have a round of applause for Adam and Brad.
01:10:39I was 12.
01:10:41Okay, well, I was 15.
01:10:42And when my customers abused me, they weren't pedophiles.
01:10:45They were just jaunts who didn't give a shit.
01:10:47They were abusers.
01:10:48They were not jaunts.
01:10:49Most of them are.
01:10:50So if a man has to go and live off a woman's body, I mean, come on.
01:10:53We're selling people.
01:10:54Like, we're selling burgers in the store.
01:10:55We're not selling people.
01:10:56Of course we are.
01:10:57We are selling services.
01:10:58Sex.
01:10:59Sex.
01:11:00I've worked with underage girls in body houses.
01:11:02But anti-prostitution groups crashed the Victory News Conference, including a woman
01:11:07whose mother was murdered by Robert Pickton, a serial killer who preyed on Vancouver prostitutes.
01:11:12Yes, it is.
01:11:13For now.
01:11:14The judges made their decision, and that's the way it's going to be.
01:11:16For now.
01:11:17But I will be working with MP Joy Smith and make sure this law gets changed.
01:11:21Because my mom didn't die for you to create this hecticness.
01:11:25I'm pleased to inform this house that the government of Canada will seek leave to appeal this decision
01:11:32to the Supreme Court of Canada.
01:11:33Hold on.
01:11:34You know, it's been such a long battle.
01:11:56I feel as if now I just want to go home.
01:12:03We need to step up our game and get it more in the forefront of people's minds so they
01:12:08understand that there is a third way.
01:12:10So, I mean, I'm not desensitized, but I take things for what they're worth.
01:12:15And I do know that there's some horrible stories in the sex trade, and I'd like to think that
01:12:19I'm actually one of the people trying to make it better, not worse.
01:12:24I see prostitution as one of the big impediments to the equality of women.
01:12:29So, of course, we'll continue to fight and it's a fight that needs to take place not only legally, but also politically.
01:12:36We'll continue to fight and it's a fight that needs to be made politically.
01:12:43So, of course, we'll continue to fight and it's a fight that needs to be made in few of the people's minds.
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