- 2 days ago
Indian's FTR 1200 hit the market in 2019 with big-time flat-track style. It was unlike anything in its lineup with a nearly all-new engine, ride modes, traction control, and a trellis frame, but just five years later, Indian discontinued the model. On this episode of The Motorcyclist Podcast we look back at the FTR and still wish it was available.
Become a Channel Partner: https://octanemedia.co/home/become-an-advertiser/
Looking to buy? Get prequalified
https://octane.co/vehicle-selection/?partner=jAYmx9P&a=303&flow=long-prequal&appTheme=3a49337c5724d18079602a4ca5a91626
Read the best motorcycle news and reviews: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/
Motorcyclist Shirts: https://teespring.com/stores/motorcyclist
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/motorcyclistonline/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/motorcyclistmag/
Become a Channel Partner: https://octanemedia.co/home/become-an-advertiser/
Looking to buy? Get prequalified
https://octane.co/vehicle-selection/?partner=jAYmx9P&a=303&flow=long-prequal&appTheme=3a49337c5724d18079602a4ca5a91626
Read the best motorcycle news and reviews: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/
Motorcyclist Shirts: https://teespring.com/stores/motorcyclist
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/motorcyclistonline/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/motorcyclistmag/
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Hey, welcome back to the Motorcycles Podcast. This is where we talk about motorcycles and what makes them great.
00:05Episodes constantly change on this show, but the one thing that always remains is two-wheeled fun.
00:10In this episode, we are going to talk about a bike that is actually no longer for sale, but is still for sale in a way.
00:17And that is Indians FTR, their standard.
00:21So before we do that, introductions. It's just two of us today.
00:24We've got Adam Waheed, editor. You've got me, Justin Dawes, executive editor.
00:28And Jeff is out hiking to waterfalls in Arizona.
00:34So he had some vacation planned.
00:36So we'll check back in with him when he gets back.
00:39So let's talk about the Indian FTR.
00:41He's definitely an outlier in what Indian has been when it came out, for sure.
00:51It's, you know, inspired by the FTR 750 race bike, which is no longer being raced due to rural changes in AFT, American flat track.
01:07But during that time frame, there was this huge focus on flat track.
01:12Flat track was big.
01:14And so, you know, Indian went back into racing, built a super rad flat track bike that just dominated for quite a while.
01:24And they built a 1200 CC street tracker inspired by that.
01:31So, but it was short lived 2019 to 2004, only five years of production.
01:39And in those five years, it changed quite a bit.
01:44So they didn't make any big announcement about cutting it from the line.
01:49It just was like a very short line on a, on a PR that are a press release that it wouldn't be returning for 2025.
01:57And that's it.
01:57So, um, obviously there's, there's some issues with that bike in terms of it, maybe it didn't sell well or, um, some other things.
02:06So let's get into it.
02:08Um, have you ridden that bike heat?
02:13Yeah, I've ridden that motorcycle.
02:15Yep.
02:15Yeah.
02:16Yeah.
02:16Yeah.
02:16I rode it in 2019 and then I rode the, the other version with the 17 inch wheels, but later on a couple of years later.
02:24So yeah, I've ridden that bike a good amount.
02:27Cool.
02:27So we'll go through the details real quick and we'll keep it short and then we'll just talk about, um, I personally really liked that bike, but we'll get into it here in a sec.
02:35But, um, 2019 was the first model year and it was called the FTR 1200 and there was the FTR 1200 S, which was an upgraded version with, um, some extra stuff.
02:44Um, but it was, uh, powered by a 60 degree liquid cooled, 1203 CC V twin that originally was based on the scout, but there wasn't really a lot of scout lift in it when they were done.
02:58Um, it, uh, had like, um, new crank cases.
03:02It had new cylinders.
03:03It had a different, uh, bore.
03:05It had a lot of different stuff going on with it.
03:08So, uh, it was 80% change.
03:11I would say it was really not based on it, but I guess they started with a scout and then ended up where they ended up with this more modern, um, quite, uh, I don't know if I would say European feeling, but it was, it was quite different than any other Indian engine.
03:27Would you agree?
03:29Mm-hmm.
03:30Yeah, no, I think the European, it had some, some KTM 1290 vibes or 1090 vibes in there, you know, for sure.
03:37For sure, for sure.
03:39Um, it made 120 horsepower claimed on our dyno and made 111.
03:43So pretty strong engine.
03:45I think 79 pound feet of torque is what it put out, uh, with a claimed, uh, 84.
03:52Um, so a pretty stout little engine that, uh, had tons of torque and, uh, pulled really hard.
03:59It had ride modes, which, uh, you know, um, it had a rain, a street, a sport, and then it had a track mode, which removed.
04:07The ABS, um, and that was on a touchscreen TFT dash, which was, um, quite small and cool looking and it really modernized kind of Indian in a way, um, that we hadn't seen before.
04:20Um, you know, uh, because it was flat track inspired, it ran on a 19 inch front wheel and an 18 inch rear wheel on Dunlop DT three R tires.
04:31They were dirt track looking tires for the street.
04:34So, um, they weren't asymmetric, like a dirt track tire.
04:37They kind of, the, the pattern went the same way, both sides, but it looked very dirt tracky.
04:42Um, some other interesting things had an under seat fuel tank.
04:46Um, air box was underneath the tank cover.
04:50Um, and it was just, it looked very much like a oversized flat track bike long, kind of low, but also, you know, wide tall bars for flat track.
05:02And it was, it was cool.
05:03Um, and then, uh, 2020, they came out with the FTR rally, which was like a scrambler version had a little longer suspension, but it, they took away the touchscreen.
05:13It took away some adjustability of the suspension of the S.
05:17Um, and to me, it was actually maybe the first hint that Indian wasn't real sure of the direction they wanted to go with the FTR.
05:28They kind of were like, Oh, scramblers are cool right now too.
05:31We'll just take this thing and make it into a scrambler, I guess.
05:35Right.
05:36Yeah.
05:37Yep.
05:38Yep.
05:39Well, they had in 2019, they had a little bit of a scrambler type variation.
05:44If I remember correctly, it was the FTR 1200 and you could put a couple accessories on there and kind of make it a scrambler, which, which it, it looked like a scrambler.
05:52You know, that's true.
05:53They did.
05:54They had some accessories for that.
05:55And I think that scrambler was actually available even earlier in Europe.
06:00Um, but either way, it was kind of, you know, not, it was quite different than the flat track styling.
06:10Um, so, uh, in 2022, they changed the name to just FTR.
06:15They dropped the 1200, um, and they put 17 inch wheels and tires on the bike to make it more street focused.
06:22Um, you know, handle more like a, a standard rather than this, this flat tracker and, and scrambler thing that they had going on.
06:32Um, it got less suspension travel, but they smoothed out the throttle response.
06:36Um, and it was probably overall a better bike for the street than it was before.
06:43Um, and then 2020, they, they had different versions of that.
06:48They had like a, a sport model or an S model.
06:52They had a collab with a hundred percent.
06:55They had a collab with RSD for a super hooligan tribute bike.
06:59Um, but 2024 was the last year.
07:01But if you go to the Indian website right now, they're still on the site, which means there are still some in dealers.
07:09Yeah.
07:10So must be, which is interesting.
07:12So, um, and then, you know, so then they, they, they killed it and, um, like we said, it wasn't a big announcement.
07:20They kind of just didn't like, we had to actually really pay attention to catch that it wasn't coming back for, for 2025.
07:29And, um, maybe like some Euro five plus admission stuff might have made it more difficult.
07:35I doubt with down sales, all these factors came together to, to probably, um, not make it desirable for Indian to produce the thing anymore, which I feel is kind of a bummer.
07:48Yeah.
07:48Um, cause I liked the bike a lot.
07:53So, yeah, I mean, obviously it didn't really sell well for them.
07:58So if it didn't sell well, you know, you gotta cut it.
08:01You gotta cut it.
08:02Business is business.
08:03So, um, you could still get a 2024 model, uh, 13 and a half grand for the standard and 18 and a half grand for the RSD super hooligan.
08:14Um, so with that, that's kind of the story.
08:17It's, it's such a short compact story and there was a lot of development in the bike.
08:21Um, it was kind of a passion project, um, for some of the Indian crew that worked on the flat track bike, worked on this bike.
08:29Um, and you can see there was a lot of work and passion put into it and it just didn't click for some reason, which was a bummer.
08:37So, um,
08:39Yeah, cause it did, it did generate a lot of buzz.
08:41Oh, a ton of buzz.
08:43You know, I mean, we, um,
08:44It had a lot of buzz before.
08:46We got an opportunity to ride it way before it came out.
08:49We were at a prototype bike and did a video with it and it got millions of views.
08:52Like people were excited about it and then no one thought it, it seems like, which is always the thing.
09:01You got to turn your concepts.
09:02You have to be able to capitalize on them, I guess.
09:04Um, otherwise they got to get cut.
09:09So yeah.
09:11Yeah.
09:11It's strange how sometimes things, things look good on paper and people are into it.
09:16But then like, once it actually comes out or happens, it's kind of like, wah, wah, you see that, you see that not, not often, but every once in a while.
09:25And it's always kind of just interesting why or why that happens, you know?
09:30Yeah.
09:30Yeah.
09:31So let's talk about like, maybe we'll go on stages about the bike of us riding it.
09:36So let's talk about the 2019 model.
09:39Um, when it first came out, what did you think of it when you first wrote it?
09:43Well, I, first off, I really did.
09:48I, I liked the styling from afar, like the proportions on the motorcycle were very nice.
09:54That, that clean tail, everything looked tidy.
09:57It looked aesthetically really good, a little bit away from it.
10:01But then once you got closer, you know, I, I really, that my always pet peeve was just the way that the engine looked.
10:07There was all these like hoses and wires and just the engine covers.
10:12They just, it didn't, it didn't really match the, the, the proportions and the overall visual aesthetics of the motorcycle, in my opinion.
10:21Yeah.
10:21You know, but, but at the same time.
10:23You had this really good looking tank in tail section that was pretty polished and nice looking.
10:27And then everything below it was really.
10:29Even the.
10:29Yeah, I agree.
10:32Like the, even the frame that the trellis frame looked okay.
10:35The trellis swing arm looked okay.
10:37The front fender, the headlight cowl though.
10:39I mean the hand, everything looked good.
10:41It's just, just that engine was very unsightly in my opinion.
10:46And in a way the engine did look cool because it was a big engine in, in the same type of way.
10:51The, the, you know, KTM leader class V twin is really cool.
10:56Cause it's big.
10:57It's, it's big.
10:58Like it's a big engine and they don't really make big engine motorcycles anymore.
11:02Not that.
11:03I mean, Harley Davidson does a little bit, but even those are getting kind of slimmer.
11:06But, but so aesthetically it had a big engine, but just like, just when you looked up in
11:12close, you saw hoses and wires and just like, just the, the, the covers were just, they
11:18just, it didn't look, it didn't match the sleekness of the rest of the bike.
11:22Yeah.
11:22The top was, like you said, was very sleek and the bottom was rough.
11:26You know, even like the engine covers were like sandcast looking, they were magnesium,
11:30but they were like sandcast looking.
11:32They didn't look machined or nice.
11:35You know, there was like a voltage regulator.
11:36Yeah.
11:37It was hanging off the side.
11:38It was just, yeah, it was.
11:40Exactly.
11:42Yeah.
11:42But riding.
11:43And like the, the case, the case.
11:45Yeah, go ahead.
11:46Go ahead.
11:48Oh, the, the case scene to it.
11:50If you remember, it had like these weird protrusions, like they had like weird protrusions
11:55that like, it just, it really was unsleek, you know, and it just, which is crazy.
12:00Cause the rest of the bike was sleek.
12:01So it was like, what, you know?
12:02Yeah, exactly.
12:03But, you know, um, when you're riding it, you're not looking at it.
12:07You're not looking at the engine.
12:08Um, so what about riding it, the thing?
12:10What did you think when you actually hit the road on, on it?
12:13Well, it was cool that they had that, you know, you mentioned that the European feel and that
12:22V twin, it certainly had an old Ducati L twin or old, uh, LC, LC8 KTM engine feel had like
12:32an old European V twin feel, which was right around the time where all those European V
12:37twins were going away except for KTM, but they were going away.
12:41So it was interesting that Indian motorcycle is kind of continuing that legacy, which was,
12:46I thought was really neat, you know, and, and that bike had that nice short wheelbase
12:51and it liked wheelie and it was like a fun little hooligan bike.
12:54Yeah.
12:55Yeah.
12:55It was like this, like, I mean, it was longer than like a normal flat track bike, but it
12:59was still felt pretty short.
13:01It had a really short swing arm.
13:03So it like you would, it would wheelie actually pretty easily.
13:07Um, and it just, it was really rowdy and fun and it had a character to it that, um, you
13:15know, you didn't expect from, from Indian at that time, you know, where they were just making
13:20cruisers, you had chieftains and chiefs and, and which were all great American style cruisers.
13:25And then you had this thing where you sat up on top of the bike and it had these big wide
13:29motocross type bars on it and it had these tires that would squirm and do all kinds of
13:35weird things.
13:36And, um, it was really, really fun to just screw around on, you know, put it in track
13:42mode, he could back it into the corners.
13:44Um, and it had really strong engine performance.
13:49Like you said, like it had this European feeling engine that just like it pulled really hard
13:53off the corner and then it just revved pretty far and it didn't seem to sign off too early.
13:57And, um, it was, it was really, really fun.
14:01I mean, I even rode it on the track we hit at, um, uh, hack day track day.
14:06We, you know, I went around the track on the thing quite a few laps and I had a good time
14:11on it.
14:12So it was, it was a blast.
14:15It was a bit sketchy when you were going fast, but I think that was the whole point of
14:19the bike is to just hit you in the fields with pretty solid performance, but also give
14:28you a little twinge of danger to it.
14:33Yeah.
14:34Yeah.
14:34I mean, just that concept was so different for Indian motorcycle.
14:38Like you said, they were just making these, these long and low cruisers, not really meant
14:43for performance, you know, the whole street tracker phenomenon was, I thought in 2019 that
14:49that street tracker thing was going to actually be a thing.
14:52Like I thought, you know, Harley Davidson was kind of going to make a street tracker and
14:56that whole like idea.
14:58I mean, remember Roland was making those custom bikes that were all kind of street tracker
15:02ish, the triumphs and stuff like that.
15:04And then he was, he was, you know, going down, you know, a hooligan flat track.
15:09So everything he was doing had that, that hooligan flat track style.
15:14And then Harley, yeah, the, the, the Bronx, I guess is what it was called.
15:18You know, it was, um, people are still lament that it wasn't ever built.
15:23Like I think, you know, Harley missed the boat on that one cause there's so many people,
15:27but then again, maybe Indian proved their point that people want it until it's available and
15:33they don't want it.
15:36Yeah.
15:36Yeah.
15:37I mean, we were kind of, I was kind of isolated because it's almost now we're talking about
15:42it, that, that hooligan flat tracker, street tracker thing.
15:46Maybe that was more of an isolated, you know, uh, American Southwest, West coast thing, you
15:51know, cause at that time it was really popular down here, but really popular in, in, in Southern
15:57California and really popular on the East coast is two different things.
16:00Yeah.
16:01So, you know, absolutely.
16:02And, you know, so maybe it was some of that, but, but yeah, that, that FTR was just, it
16:09was cool to see something different from Indian and, and from that aspect, it worked pretty
16:14good, you know, for, for something that they've never really done before.
16:17And yeah.
16:18Yeah.
16:18The night, the, the FTR 1200 S was my, my favorite iteration, which was one of the first
16:24ones.
16:24And then, you know, um, the rally, you know, kind of like this weird, like half step that
16:30didn't really work because it was like a scrambler, but it wasn't because it didn't really work that
16:35great off road.
16:36Um, you know, it was, it was, it just, it was just, it just didn't work really, you know?
16:43So did you ride the, the rally?
16:48I didn't ride the rally, but I rode the FTR and it didn't really work off road very well at all.
16:55It had that hinged, hinged incompatibility between the front and front end and the rear end.
17:00But, but it's, it was so funny.
17:02It didn't really work off road because like aesthetically it like, oh yeah, it would totally
17:06work off road.
17:07Yeah.
17:07You know, but like it just had that weird hinge and it was so low too.
17:11It was like low.
17:12You always like, you had to worry about like, you're going to hit something, you know?
17:15Yeah.
17:15So, um, and then the change in 2022, like with the, the 17 inch wheels and stuff, it definitely
17:23changed the character of the bike.
17:24It made it a much better street bike, uh, way better to live with every day.
17:28But for me, it kind of lost that character and that, that appeal that came with that character.
17:34What about you?
17:37Yeah, I don't know.
17:38I think in 2022, we, we did a ride on it and honestly, I preferred the old version with the
17:451917 better that, that I, that's, I guess it did maybe lose its character.
17:50It just, I don't know.
17:51It, it almost in a way it, I wouldn't say it even seemed more awkward because it had street
17:57tires that didn't squirm anymore, but it, it, it did kind of just, it, maybe, maybe the
18:02other motorcycles advanced very rapidly in that three year, uh, period between 2019 and
18:082022.
18:09Cause I remember in 2022, it wasn't really, it was like, well, a little bit, but it,
18:13it was cool.
18:14They added that S variation with the carbon fiber and the Ohlins.
18:17That was neat, but, but it really didn't do much in performance, but it did look cool.
18:21Yeah, it looked really nice with all that carbon fiber and the gold Olene stuff on it
18:25looked really good.
18:26The super Hooligan, um, special bike, you know, really cool looking, you know, paint job
18:32by Roland Sands, kind of, uh, cool looking wheels and stuff, but it just, I don't know,
18:38maybe it made it too easy to ride.
18:41It just, it just vanilla-fied the thing is the easiest way to put it.
18:44It became, before it was like some crazy ice cream bar you got off the truck that, you
18:50know, had bubble gum and weird stuff in it.
18:53And then they changed it and it was just like, yeah, it was just a regular ice cream
18:59bar, you know, vanilla.
19:00You were like, Oh, cool.
19:01It's good.
19:01I like it.
19:03But this thing was way crazier.
19:05And I really look back at that thing much more fondly.
19:08So, um, yeah, I mean, that's a good point.
19:12They kind of almost not watered it down, but obviously it wasn't selling right in its
19:16street tracker configuration.
19:18So they were like, Oh, how can we spend the least amount of money to make this thing more
19:22appealing to us, you know, power sports riders.
19:25And that's probably what let's put 17 inch wheels on it and street bike tires and it should
19:31be better.
19:31And, and yeah, maybe it was better in that sense, but for like the, the motorcyclist purists
19:37like us who want something different and rowdy, it wasn't that anymore.
19:41And that's probably why, like maybe why it didn't seem so awesome anymore, just because
19:46it was more like the other bikes at that point.
19:48Yeah.
19:49Yeah.
19:49I think that's, that was the curse of that bike is it was the enthusiast weirdos loved
19:56it for what it was in the beginning, but there's not a lot of them.
19:58And then it went to something that kind of got lost in the mix because it was like everything
20:04else.
20:04So it, it never found it's, it's real successful place, unfortunately, which is a bummer.
20:12Cause I think it was, yeah, it was a great bike.
20:14Um, but at the same time, like we said, it, it was kind of niche.
20:18So, you know, Oh, well, so what I'm, I'm surprised that engine never showed up anywhere else.
20:27Like you would think that they would have won like, okay, well, let's take this engine
20:31and let's put it in something else and maybe bore it down to a small bore and, you know,
20:37put it in some sort of naked thing or something, but nothing ever else came with that engine,
20:42which is also pretty interesting in these days of, of shared platforms.
20:48Right.
20:50I mean, you make a really good point, Justin.
20:52Cause yeah, I mean, like who know they had this, they, I mean, obviously, like you said,
20:57they base some things around what they had, but still they had to invest quite a bit of
21:01money into that, into that powertrain platform.
21:04And for them to not reuse it and something is very, very odd.
21:08You're totally right.
21:09Like almost like a more sporty, like a sporty scout, like a sport variation scout almost,
21:16you know, like it's kind of crazy.
21:18We never really saw like a, like something like that, you know, scout naked or, or, you
21:23know, something that was just maybe higher performance, you know, maybe in something
21:27with like a bikini fairy on it or something that covered up some of that ugly engine
21:31architecture, you know, but you know, um, you know, America, they could still do it.
21:38So like, look at, yeah, they could still, they could still do it though.
21:42I mean, look at the re look at the resurgence of the, of the, of the Neo sports cafe, the
21:48cafe racer class, like, you know, Honda's got one, Yamaha's got one, Suzuki's got one
21:54now, you know, that, I mean, that could be like a cool, I mean, again, it's kind of
21:59going back to a niche, which maybe Indian already proves that the niches aren't good,
22:03but in theory it could, it has the pieces to make a little Neo sports cafe type of motorcycle.
22:10Yeah, for sure.
22:11For sure.
22:11It does.
22:12But yeah, I think maybe for Indian bread and butter, American cruisers, you know, like
22:17chromed, shiny, comfortable.
22:21Don't worry about performance too much.
22:23And yeah, we're all good.
22:24We're going to sell tons of them and we're going to have nice margins and everyone's going
22:29to be happy and we don't have to take chances, you know, and, and, you know, the current,
22:35uh, economic climate right now, chances are no one's taken chances.
22:40Everyone's kind of wait, let's wait and see, let's wait and see.
22:44So, um, you know, I think, uh, your, your time as a product planning manager right now
22:52might be a little boring because everything's on hold.
22:57Yeah.
22:57Yeah.
22:57Yeah.
22:57Well said, dude.
22:58Well said.
22:59Yep.
23:00All right.
23:01Well, I think, uh, you know, this is a, a little bit shorter one today, but, uh, I don't think,
23:06you know, uh, that's because the bike wasn't cool or wasn't important.
23:10I think it was, uh, a really big step inside of, um, Indian to step up and do this thing
23:18and, uh, you know, really lean on that racing, uh, that racing space that they, that they had
23:25for a while with, with flat track.
23:27So it's a, it's a noteworthy.
23:29Yeah.
23:29Do you think these, do you think one of these bikes will ever become a collector's item?
23:35Cause they couldn't have sold that many, you know?
23:38Yeah.
23:38I mean, possibly, um, maybe an S, you know, I think so.
23:46I mean, they, yeah, like you said, like 20 years down the road, I think people are going
23:51to look back at those things and go, Oh, those are like really cool.
23:54I think I want to try to find one and then, then the price will, will, will rebound on
23:59them and they may become collector's items.
24:01You know, um, um, I really enjoyed it.
24:04So, you know, I could see more people thinking about it later, you know, going, Oh man, that
24:10thing was cool.
24:11So, yeah, things are so cyclical to like that street tracker phenomenon that, that never
24:19really amounted to something.
24:20It's still, who knows what's going to happen in 10 years?
24:23Like, you know, electric street trackers.
24:25Now that's a thing you don't know.
24:27So, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if in the future something happens and that's a thing
24:31again.
24:32Yeah.
24:32Motorcycles were a fickle bunch unless it's a cruiser and it's steady Eddie.
24:39Um, with that, we're going to wrap this one up, but the, you know, the FTR, it really like
24:44tapped into the excitement of Indian returning to flat track racing.
24:47Um, it was rowdy.
24:48It was fun.
24:49It was a bit impractical, but that was the entire point.
24:53Of that motorcycle.
24:55Um, and somehow it just didn't really catch on Indian tried to remedy it with changing
25:00it to more of a street or bold machine, but that didn't help.
25:03And in the end it was cut and that's a shame because it was, it was a really awesome machine.
25:09And with that, we're going to wrap it up on this one.
25:12Thanks for listening.
25:13If you like what we're doing, hit the like button, subscribe, hit the notification bell,
25:18share this with your friends.
25:19If you enjoy listening to what we're doing, um, and comment down below.
25:23What you thought of the FTR, if you thought it was cool, if you thought it was a big flop
25:26or anything in between, and we will see you on the next one.
Recommended
2:47
|
Up next
2:24
23:39
5:21
2:35
51:53
1:31:56
46:08
11:11
1:07
1:28
Be the first to comment