- 2 days ago
Let the Devil In Season 1 Episode 4
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00:00Something unusual happened to my daughter when she was
00:29probably about eight years old.
00:33Wow.
00:35This is hard to talk about.
00:37Okay, hold on.
00:39So, my daughter said that there had been an apparition.
00:47Christy.
00:50An apparition of a boy that came in her room.
00:54She said he was wearing these overalls.
00:57He had kind of an impish smile.
00:59And what occurred was that this little boy would be transformed into this character that
01:10was horribly evil.
01:16He started to laugh.
01:19Go to the window.
01:21I thought maybe I heard something.
01:22Something moved in her room.
01:26It's okay.
01:27And I got up out of my bed to look.
01:32Now fly.
01:36She was going to kill herself.
01:38I grabbed her and had to, like, restrain her.
01:44Are you okay?
01:44She said, the little boy says, I have to kill myself.
01:50I felt so powerless in my faith in Christ and in my prayers.
01:57I knew I was dealing with hell itself.
01:59This was over 30 years ago.
02:05And my daughter grew up, of course.
02:08Whether a Satan exists is a matter of belief.
02:11But we are certain that Satanism exists.
02:13Recently, she called me up and said, Dad, I watched this thing on YouTube, Geraldo Rivera.
02:18And our own detective heart was on that program.
02:22And there was this kid, Tom Sullivan.
02:28Tommy Sullivan had written this contract with the devil.
02:31She sees the face.
02:33And she recognizes him as the boy that showed up in her room.
02:38The same kind of smirk and everything.
02:40She said, that's him.
02:42My daughter would have not recognized Tom at the age of eight because Tom had been dead for years already.
02:48She didn't know anything about Tom.
02:49And to this day, she will tell you.
02:54The little boy that appeared in my room.
02:58That was Tommy Sullivan.
02:59Tommy Sullivan.
03:19When something traumatic happens, something you can't wrap your head around, it's natural to reach for the oldest story in the book.
03:36Good versus evil.
03:38God versus the devil.
03:40It gives the horror a shape, a villain, something to blame.
03:46But that doesn't consider the real world demons that live within us all.
03:50It's a shield against an even more violent foe.
03:53It's realizing that the monster was never hiding under the bed.
03:57It was always much closer than that.
03:59Everybody that I've ever talked to about Tommy and about the whole situation definitely has questions.
04:18The part that stood out to me the most was that he killed himself that way.
04:25Both of his wrists were slit.
04:27And then the way it was described to me is that from ear to ear, he was slit like almost like basically through his throat.
04:36Like it was deep.
04:36I had the exact same pocket knife.
04:40It's not a big knife.
04:42If you were going to hold it, the handle is about the size of your hand and then the blade would be sticking out maybe an inch to an inch and a half.
04:48So he wouldn't have been able to hold the knife to cut the next wrist.
04:51And if you slash your throat, well, you're not going to be able to do either.
04:56So, I mean, not to make it a math problem, but the order of operations just doesn't make any sense.
05:01The devil possessing you, giving you superhuman strength was the explanation to put that to bed to everybody.
05:09I understand there may have been some satanic indications in that letter as well.
05:14That's correct.
05:15Even as a 13-year-old trying to process it, like the devil doing it just didn't, it's not really a satisfying explanation.
05:24And it just leaves you really like unsettled and really uneasy.
05:29It's 30-something years ago.
05:31It didn't make any sense at the time.
05:33And, like, looking back, I don't know anybody that thinks that Tommy killed himself.
05:38There's no possible way that you could ever get me to agree that Tommy was involved with what he was accused of being involved with.
05:47It's just not possible.
05:50Tommy Jr. was not a satanic killer.
05:54He was a great kid.
05:58In 1988, I was 19 years old.
06:01And I was neighbors of the Sullivan family.
06:05And through the years, the Sullivans were like family to me.
06:10It was within that week after the murder that I was down in the basement helping Tom Sr. scrubbed blood off of a wall.
06:23And it was horrific.
06:26It was absolutely horrific.
06:30The blood was just everywhere.
06:32But Tom Sr. wasn't acting like he had just lost his wife and his child.
06:40He was perfectly normal.
06:43I mean, at the time I was young, I wasn't old enough to really process it all.
06:48I tried asking them always down there cleaning them.
06:55Like, Tom, how did this happen?
06:57What happened?
06:57You know, what the hell?
06:59Satan came to him.
07:01Satan had his face on it.
07:02And Satan told him to kill his family.
07:04And they go out and preach Satanism.
07:05Tom Sr. blamed it all on Satan and that he must have been possessed.
07:12It was crazy.
07:13A neighbor down the street told me Tommy Sullivan used to cut his grass.
07:17He said he was an all-American boy.
07:19He said nobody, and I mean nobody, can figure out what went wrong.
07:23Satanism made little Tommy kill his mother so brutally.
07:28Yeah.
07:29I don't buy that.
07:30I just don't.
07:33I was there just to learn.
07:35I was just there to find out why.
07:39Why?
07:39What happened here?
07:41I did not talk to Tom Sr.
07:42Trust me, I tried really, really hard to talk to him.
07:46I tried and tried and tried.
07:48He did not want to talk to me.
07:52So here I was going to look into, like, why and what happened.
07:58And really, you know, dig as deeply as I could.
08:03But it wasn't an easy dig.
08:07I got a lot of, I can't talk to you.
08:09I don't want to talk to you.
08:11Why?
08:11I'm sorry, I just can't talk to you.
08:14As if there was this big secret, which made me even, you know, more curious.
08:20Like, what's being hidden here?
08:23I remember my mother not being a fan of Tom Sr.
08:26My folks remember Tom Sr. was heavy-handed.
08:30I used to occasionally catch a beating from my father, obviously.
08:35I mean, it was 1980s, and I was a pain in the ass.
08:38But Tom, he was in trouble a lot, either grounded or afraid that his father was going to give him a few cracks when he got home.
08:49I was able to rationalize it at the time, like, you know, that's just what happens, you know.
08:53But looking back, it definitely was a different level.
08:56Tom Sr., he had a temper.
09:02I guess that was pretty well known.
09:05Detective Pellick related to me and one of the people that he had spoken with from the neighborhood
09:10described to Tom Sr. as having some type of argument or something with Tom Jr.
09:17Kind of got loud and stuff.
09:21Kind of an aggressive type of situation.
09:24Went unreported to law enforcement and nothing was ever done.
09:27There were people around the neighborhood that voiced concerns about Tommy and his father getting into it.
09:35But certainly nobody's picking up a phone call on 911.
09:39And didn't.
09:44When I first started looking at what was going on with this family,
09:48one of the things that I recall didn't involve Tommy or Tommy's room,
09:53but it was Brian and Brian's room.
09:58Most of us, if you had brothers and sisters growing up,
10:02remember putting a sign on your door that said,
10:04Do not enter or whatever, something like that.
10:07Keep out.
10:08That's until your mother and father said,
10:09No, we don't do that here.
10:10Take it down.
10:12The thing that struck me was that on the door to Brian's bedroom,
10:18it said, Stay out or I will kill you.
10:21And I think it speaks to a level of violence
10:25that I hate to say was acceptable.
10:31It certainly wouldn't have flown in our home.
10:35And I think most parents would say the same thing.
10:39That, in my opinion,
10:41this was an indicator of the family situation, the dynamics.
10:46I always had this feeling that Tom was mad at his mom
10:51for not protecting them from the dad.
10:55And I remember having the sense that his mother didn't step in
10:58to protect him and Brian as much as he would have liked that she would have.
11:03Like, she should have been there to cushion that blow.
11:05I hesitate to judge a person's home.
11:12And there are factors in every home that have issues.
11:17And parents have issues.
11:21But I don't think there was good communication.
11:24In an article that was written subsequent to this,
11:33the father had been quoted as saying,
11:37my wife was overbearing and she's too strict.
11:43And maybe she was too strict.
11:45Betty Ann was the one who believed that parochial education was good.
12:15I don't think that the dad had signed up for that,
12:19but he just went along with it.
12:22What little guy gathered from talking to neighbors
12:26is that this boy,
12:30I think he just felt as if he couldn't breathe.
12:34As if he had no say in that family.
12:44Because mom knows better
12:46and dad knows better than you do.
12:50And if you're miserable,
12:52well, you'll get over it.
12:54Well, he wasn't getting over it.
12:56He was miserable.
12:57It wasn't a fad.
12:59It wasn't just a little period of time.
13:02He was miserable.
13:03There's piety
13:19that's good.
13:23And there's piety
13:24that is self-serving.
13:27I'm very influenced by my tradition
13:31from daily mass
13:33and prayers four times a day.
13:35That's part of who I am.
13:37But it does not absolve me
13:42from the realities I see around me.
13:46I can't just pray them up to God.
13:49I believe that she was praying
13:52for her family
13:53and for herself
13:54and not seeing.
13:57And we all have blind spots
13:59and we all have things
14:00we don't want to see.
14:02So obviously she was struggling
14:04and saw things perhaps
14:06that she didn't know how to deal with.
14:11I remember when she came to talk to me
14:14and I told her
14:16the children are worried about your son.
14:21I said,
14:22some of what he's talking about
14:24I think it's something
14:25you might be interested in.
14:26is about Satan and his power.
14:30I said,
14:31I don't know everything
14:32but I really encourage you
14:34to talk to your son
14:37with your husband
14:39over the next few days.
14:41And she said to me,
14:43where's the rule book?
14:46And I said,
14:47rule book?
14:48She said,
14:48yes.
14:49How do I raise children?
14:50I don't know how to do it.
14:53I said,
14:54there's no rule book.
14:57I had never been asked
14:58about a rule book
14:59and I'd been doing the work
15:00for a long time.
15:02No parent ever said,
15:04give me the blueprint.
15:06Give me the...
15:07So that spoke volumes to me.
15:10If you are asking for a rule book,
15:14you're in a lot of conflict.
15:17That was Thursday.
15:20He had killed his mother
15:21on Saturday night
15:22and somewhere before they found him,
15:25he had killed himself.
15:28Truth be told,
15:30I thought it was my fault
15:32because I asked her
15:34to talk to him.
15:37So my first thought was,
15:41this is on you.
15:52Something horrible happened
15:53to that house.
15:54I had a lot of questions
15:57and a lot of confusion.
16:02I just know my gut feeling
16:03that something didn't add up.
16:06It wasn't right.
16:07I felt that the father
16:09was suspicious.
16:10That maybe that knew
16:12more than he had told us.
16:14I mean,
16:14I wasn't saying for sure
16:15that he did anything.
16:17I don't know that for a fact,
16:18but I felt that
16:19he seriously needed
16:21to be looked at
16:21as a suspect.
16:22For a father
16:26to draw a conclusion
16:27that quickly,
16:28to go from knowing nothing
16:30to saying,
16:30get my son,
16:32it just didn't make sense.
16:34That's what really
16:35threw me off.
16:36How do you know that?
16:36You were sleeping.
16:38And now you know
16:39your son murdered your wife
16:40and his mother?
16:42It just didn't seem right to me.
16:45And how did this kid
16:46come back to the scene
16:47and cut his own throat
16:49with all the officers there
16:50and everything
16:50when he wasn't there
16:52when we started to search?
16:55Something isn't right.
16:56Like,
16:57how did he reappear
16:58right there?
17:00I entered the house
17:01with one of the police officers.
17:03And at that point
17:04is when I ran into
17:05Tom Sr.
17:07I don't remember
17:08seeing any tears
17:10or anything like that.
17:14Just trying to,
17:15you know,
17:15say,
17:16why did he do this?
17:17Why did he do this?
17:18I need you to go find Tommy.
17:20He took off into the woods.
17:21How does he know
17:22he took off into the woods?
17:24That's a question
17:24that's been plaguing me
17:26for years.
17:27It's my belief
17:28that Tommy Jr.
17:30was not a satanic killer.
17:33He wasn't.
17:34He can't convince me otherwise,
17:36but he, you know,
17:37he just wasn't.
17:40The thing about the Tommy situation
17:41is that
17:42I don't know
17:43that anyone's ever going to know
17:44what actually happened,
17:46but I just don't see it as possible
17:48that Tommy did it.
17:49It feels to me
17:50that what makes much more sense
17:51is that
17:52Tom Sr.
17:54is the one
17:54that killed Tommy.
18:06I remember,
18:08like,
18:08early in the morning
18:09writing my report.
18:11My report
18:11originally expressed
18:13that I, um,
18:16felt the father
18:16was a suspect,
18:18strongly felt that,
18:20and then if not,
18:21he knew a lot more
18:22than he told us.
18:24The chief told me
18:24I was wrong
18:25and that it was
18:26a homicide-suicide.
18:28I couldn't comprehend
18:29how we determined
18:31that that quick.
18:33The police didn't do
18:35very much investigation
18:36at all.
18:37I was the one person
18:39that was, like,
18:39family,
18:40and not one question,
18:42not one interview,
18:42nothing from the police department.
18:45Murder.
18:47Suicide.
18:48It was almost like
18:49the police couldn't
18:49comprehend it either,
18:51but this seemed
18:51like it made sense,
18:52so let's just
18:52do this
18:54and get it done with
18:55type of thing.
18:56And it just
18:57never felt right.
18:59I think that's part
18:59of the reason
18:59why it's just
19:00never really gone away.
19:02I've certainly heard
19:03that Tom Jr.
19:04couldn't have done this,
19:05that it was Tom Sr.
19:07I, again,
19:08look at it
19:09from an investigator's
19:10standpoint.
19:11I've never seen
19:11any evidence
19:12that would make
19:13that connection.
19:14the police didn't think
19:16it was the father.
19:18When something
19:19is incomprehensible,
19:21theories are always
19:22around.
19:23They're always around.
19:24When you don't
19:25understand something,
19:27you gotta come up
19:28with something
19:28that to you
19:30makes sense.
19:30because a 14-year-old boy
19:33brutally killing his mom,
19:35uh-uh,
19:36it's gotta be
19:37the husband,
19:38right?
19:39That's usually
19:40the suspect,
19:41so it must have been
19:42the father,
19:43even though it makes
19:44no sense.
19:44on the night of the murder,
19:52Thomas Sullivan Sr.
19:53provided a detailed
19:54account of his
19:55whereabouts to police.
19:58He stated that he had
19:59not been feeling well
20:00during the day.
20:02He was awakened
20:03by the sound
20:04of a smoke alarm,
20:05and upon getting up
20:06to investigate,
20:07he hears the front
20:08door slam closed.
20:10As he exits the bedroom,
20:12he observes a small fire
20:13on the living room
20:14floor and begins
20:15to stomp it out
20:16and uses a couch pillow
20:18to beat at the flames.
20:21He is confused.
20:23He went across the street
20:24to the Eastman home,
20:26banged on the door
20:27and requested help
20:29from Mr. Eastman.
20:32He went into the house.
20:34He's screaming
20:34for his family.
20:37At that time,
20:38the younger son
20:39comes out of his bedroom,
20:40and Tom asked him
20:41if he saw his brother
20:42and his mother.
20:43and he said,
20:44yeah,
20:44I saw Tommy,
20:46and he was covered
20:48in blood.
20:53Brian's interaction
20:54with Tom Sr.
20:55is just one more
20:56piece of the puzzle
20:57that made Tommy
20:58a kind of a prime suspect
21:00or person of interest.
21:02The night that this happened,
21:04there was certainly
21:05enough bloodshed
21:06in the house.
21:07If Tom Sr.
21:08was responsible for that,
21:10we would have had
21:11blood on his clothes,
21:11blood on his hands,
21:12blood on his face.
21:14And when the call
21:15went into the arrival,
21:16it couldn't have been
21:17more than a few minutes.
21:18The idea that he, what,
21:20he would have killed
21:21these two people,
21:22been covered in blood,
21:24and then run into the house
21:25and took a shower,
21:26and certainly,
21:28if Tom Sr.
21:28had been responsible
21:29for killing Tommy Jr.,
21:31there would have been
21:32two sets of footprints
21:33going out to the body,
21:34not just one.
21:35And it would have been
21:36the same thing.
21:37There would have been
21:38a lot of blood.
21:41I think people just
21:42have a hard time
21:43accepting that
21:44that level of violence
21:46could be perpetrated
21:48by a 14-year-old.
21:52And people like to
21:53jump to a conclusion.
21:55Tommy couldn't have done that.
21:56It had to be somebody else.
21:57You know,
21:57it had to be somebody else.
21:59Well, the evidence
22:01in this case
22:02didn't support anybody else.
22:03but Tommy.
22:19Within a few months,
22:21final autopsy reports
22:22came back to say
22:23that Tommy Sullivan Jr.
22:25was not under
22:25the influence of drugs
22:26and that the same knife
22:28was used to kill
22:29both himself
22:30and his mother.
22:32So the case
22:32was officially closed.
22:34Murder.
22:35Suicide.
22:36But the questions
22:37have always lingered.
22:39I can't explain
22:41everything that happened.
22:43I can explain some of it.
22:45I can accept some of it.
22:47But I don't have
22:49any better an idea
22:51of what happened.
22:53There are things
22:54that can't be explained.
22:56and died with people
23:00that are no longer with us.
23:03In a basic police report,
23:05there should be
23:05the primary questions.
23:07Who, what, where,
23:08when, and why.
23:10But we've never had the why.
23:13We never got to ask
23:14those questions
23:14or come up with answers.
23:17What cases like this bring up
23:19is we often don't know
23:21what's going on
23:23inside of somebody's head.
23:27My area of expertise
23:29is kids you kill
23:32and parasite,
23:33which is kids
23:34who kill parents.
23:35The killing of a parent
23:38is very, very personal.
23:41Killing the people
23:42that gave you life,
23:44that's why it horrifies people.
23:48What we know about Tommy
23:50is he was a healthy kid,
23:52good family,
23:53good community,
23:54athlete,
23:55Catholic school.
23:57He was kind of privileged
23:58in a lot of ways.
23:59But he's willing
24:00to trade all of that
24:02to be with Satan.
24:03What was going on
24:06with that individual
24:08or in that home
24:10that things could have
24:12ended so badly?
24:14Could there be,
24:15for example,
24:17abuse?
24:18Maybe.
24:19Could he have been angry?
24:21Yes.
24:22But if it were simply
24:24a matter of responding
24:26to violence
24:26that he had experienced,
24:28I don't think we'd have
24:29the satanic element involved.
24:32Once you mix in
24:33the satanic involvement,
24:36you can't say,
24:37well,
24:37it was only the abuse
24:39that drove this.
24:40When you start making
24:42pacts with Satan,
24:44it's a whole different ballgame.
24:49Tommy was involved
24:52in reading drawings,
24:55learning about Satanism,
24:56to the extent of making
24:58what he believed
24:59to be a pact with Satan.
25:01I mean,
25:01that's extreme.
25:05Tommy's drawings
25:06bespeak anger,
25:07but there's a lot
25:08of adolescent boys
25:10filled with anger.
25:13You could probably find
25:14drawings like that
25:15in the notebooks
25:15of a vast number
25:17of adolescent boys
25:18from that era
25:19who never acted out
25:21on any of this stuff
25:23and never would.
25:24act, but he did act.
25:28I drew in my notebooks
25:30the same way he did,
25:31and I have to confess,
25:34I feel a certain affection
25:36and sympathy for Tommy Jr.
25:38He went down one path,
25:42I went down another.
25:47What was it in his life
25:50that went in such a violent direction
25:53that my life did not go in?
25:56With Tommy,
26:03we have to ask,
26:06why did it take
26:07a violent turn?
26:10When I look
26:11at those drawings
26:12and I read those letters
26:14to Satan
26:15and I look
26:17at the background,
26:18the strongest evidence
26:22from a clinical perspective
26:24is that Tommy at 14
26:29was severely mentally ill
26:31and experiencing
26:35likely some type of psychosis.
26:43Psychosis means
26:44being out of touch
26:45with reality,
26:47having delusions
26:48and bizarre beliefs
26:49with no basis
26:51in reality.
26:52Whether it was
26:54a psychotic episode
26:55or childhood schizophrenia.
27:04Without treatment,
27:07it's a ticking time bomb.
27:12In the 80s,
27:14mental health
27:15was a taboo subject.
27:16Therapy was something
27:18that the rich did
27:19or if you had suffered
27:20a traumatic event.
27:21It wasn't something
27:22that was openly discussed.
27:24If something was off,
27:26if you were struggling,
27:27if you were feeling dark
27:28or angry
27:28or just lost,
27:30who did you turn to?
27:31Your friends?
27:32They'd make jokes about it.
27:34Adults?
27:35They'd tell you
27:35to toughen up.
27:36There were no resources
27:38or guidance
27:38for dealing
27:39with those feelings,
27:40so you kept them
27:41to yourself,
27:42buried deep down.
27:43But here's the thing.
27:46When you keep stuff
27:47like that bottled up,
27:48it doesn't stay quiet.
27:50It festers.
27:51And when it's left
27:52to rot in the dark,
27:53it poisons
27:54everything it touches.
27:55It's my belief
28:02that psychosis
28:05could lead an individual
28:07to do such an extreme
28:09and unthinkable act.
28:11I told you to go to bed
28:13hours ago.
28:14Tommy was so immersed
28:16in Satanism
28:18and destructive themes.
28:21If we take,
28:23you know,
28:23the fact that his thinking
28:25is disordered,
28:26which is part of psychosis,
28:28he has delusions.
28:31I don't know
28:31what to do anymore.
28:33You do not have a life
28:34outside of the world.
28:35I'm serious.
28:36In this case,
28:37the delusions are
28:38that he's in a pact
28:39with Satan.
28:40How am I supposed
28:41to help you
28:41if you won't talk to me?
28:43And that Satan
28:45is going to reward him
28:47and in turn for power,
28:49he's going to do
28:50the killing of the family.
28:59Tommy killed his mother
29:01with a Boy Scout knife.
29:04Boy Scout knives
29:05are pretty small.
29:07So that suggests to me
29:10a lot of effort
29:12to get those kinds
29:13of wounds
29:14with a little knife,
29:16which suggests
29:17a lot of anger.
29:20He may have been
29:21dissociated,
29:22which means that
29:23when somebody
29:24is so overwhelmed
29:26with feeling
29:27that they just keep going,
29:30it's almost like
29:30automatic pilot.
29:34The aggression fuels
29:36the release
29:36of stress hormones.
29:37The cycle then propels
29:39more aggression
29:39and people don't stop.
29:43until typically
29:44they're exhausted.
29:56The brothers said
29:57Tommy was very fidgety.
30:01He's hyped up.
30:02Well, I'd expect that.
30:04I'm thinking he's just like
30:06on automatic pilot
30:07and that would fit in
30:08with the dissociation.
30:10Sort of like,
30:11you know,
30:12just moving,
30:14just going through motions.
30:15when I heard
30:21Tommy committed suicide
30:23and that's actually
30:26not uncommon
30:27in cases of
30:28parasite
30:29that the assailant
30:31will kill himself
30:32afterwards.
30:34When I was informed
30:37about how he killed
30:39himself,
30:40I'm thinking of
30:42the intensity
30:42and the pain
30:43which would be
30:45extreme.
30:47When somebody
30:48is really
30:49dissociated,
30:51the stress level
30:52is so acute.
30:55He's not going to be
30:56in good contact
30:57with feelings
30:59and thoughts.
31:01He's just not
31:03in good reality contact.
31:04He's just not there.
31:05They say he fought
31:07with his mother
31:07then stabbed her.
31:09I think he was
31:11a very, very
31:12sick boy.
31:12He went into a rage
31:13stabbed his mother
31:14to death
31:15then ran into...
31:16I know that
31:18this boy
31:22committed murder.
31:25That's horrible.
31:28But I feel for him.
31:31I feel for this
31:32little boy.
31:33He needed help.
31:37He needed help.
31:40And obviously
31:41he didn't get it.
31:44It just makes me
31:45so sad
31:46to think
31:47that a 14-year-old
31:49could have been
31:50so
31:51haunted
31:54not realizing
31:56he had any
31:57lifelines.
31:58That makes me
32:00very sad.
32:00Nobody realized
32:04that he was
32:04in crisis.
32:06And as a parent
32:07now,
32:08for me,
32:09that's far
32:09more terrifying
32:10than any
32:12alleged demonic
32:13possession
32:14or satanic
32:15influence.
32:17Washington Township
32:18residents packed
32:19an auditorium tonight
32:20to hear more
32:20about satanism.
32:21Did the satanic
32:22panic
32:23or some of
32:24the other cases
32:25that were floating
32:25around at the time
32:26kind of feed into this?
32:28I would say
32:28probably yes.
32:29The satanic message
32:30is clear
32:31both in the album
32:32covers
32:32and in the lyrics.
32:34People
32:34in the community
32:36were looking for
32:37something to blame.
32:38I think it's a problem.
32:39You can call it
32:39the boogeyman,
32:40you can call it
32:40the devil,
32:41you can call it
32:41something to hang
32:42a label on
32:43to blame
32:44for what happened.
32:45You can't prevent
32:47mental illness.
32:49You can hope
32:51to treat it,
32:52you know,
32:53but you can't
32:54prevent it.
32:55But satanism?
32:57The question
32:58in everyone's mind
32:59seems to be
33:00how widespread
33:01is this satan business?
33:03It makes you wonder,
33:04you know,
33:04if it can't happen
33:05to your child.
33:06Humanity enjoys
33:07looking for an enemy.
33:08But whole books
33:11have been written
33:12discrediting the
33:13satanic panic.
33:14Most infamously,
33:16Geraldo Rivera
33:16spoke about it.
33:18Because it's teenagers
33:19who are most likely
33:20to fall under the spell
33:21of this jumble
33:22of dark,
33:23violent emotions
33:24called satanism.
33:25And has recently
33:26apologized
33:27for having participated
33:28in the satanic panic,
33:30blaming Satan
33:31or the devil.
33:33Satanism gives people
33:34a false sense of calm
33:36that they have an enemy
33:37that is easy
33:38to identify.
33:40Blame it on horror movies,
33:41Nazi and Judas Priest.
33:43It's much easier.
33:44But a broken home
33:46with an alleged
33:46abused kid,
33:47a lonely child,
33:49that's a story
33:50that we should be
33:51looking to learn from.
33:54Whether you believe
33:55in occultism,
33:57whether you believe
33:58that Satan has power,
33:59whether you believe
34:00that Satan
34:01can give you
34:02the things
34:03that he's promising
34:03these kids,
34:05that's immaterial,
34:06my friend.
34:07Because they believe it.
34:10Is satanism
34:12inherently dangerous?
34:14Probably not.
34:16But if that becomes
34:17one solution
34:19to problems,
34:20that's dangerous.
34:24You can't take Tommy
34:25out of the times.
34:28This was part
34:29of the culture.
34:30And it wasn't just
34:31the pop culture.
34:34The fact that Tommy
34:36was raised
34:37in a Catholic family
34:38I think is important
34:39because Satan
34:42was something
34:44that existed.
34:46So it was easy
34:48to understand
34:49how a mentally ill
34:51juvenile
34:51with a lot of anger
34:54believed he was
34:56writing to Satan.
34:56I think Tom Jr.
35:09tried God
35:10and didn't get
35:12the answers
35:12he wanted.
35:14And so
35:15he turned
35:17to another source
35:20of power.
35:21later that week
35:34Tom Sr.
35:37and Brian
35:38came to talk
35:39to me
35:40about what had
35:41happened.
35:41I was afraid
35:46to see the father
35:47because
35:49of my feeling
35:51that perhaps
35:52I had caused this.
35:54I had asked
35:57Betty Ann
35:58to talk
35:58to Tom Jr.
35:59about Satan.
36:02Did she
36:03talk to him
36:04and those
36:04were the consequences?
36:07I didn't
36:09listen to you.
36:10Tom said
36:11to me
36:11right away
36:12I wish
36:13I had listened
36:14to you.
36:14You told us
36:16and we
36:17didn't
36:18listen.
36:18and then
36:21I knew
36:22my first
36:23thought
36:23was wrong
36:24that it
36:26was my fault.
36:28That was
36:29for me
36:29a graced
36:30moment
36:30because
36:31he was
36:32able to
36:32free me
36:33from what
36:34I thought
36:35perhaps
36:35had happened.
36:37He gave
36:38me that
36:38gift
36:39and I
36:40was so
36:41grateful.
36:41I
36:46just
36:47feared
36:47for
36:48Brian.
36:50Brian
36:50was
36:51barely
36:52able
36:52to function.
36:54I
36:55found out
36:55that he
36:56saw his
36:57brother
36:57after
36:59he killed
37:00his mother
37:01with his
37:02mother's
37:02blood
37:03on his
37:03hands.
37:06He
37:07did say
37:07this to
37:08me.
37:08My
37:08brother
37:09told me
37:09to go
37:10back
37:10to bed.
37:11And
37:13the look
37:13on his
37:14face
37:14I
37:15went
37:15back
37:16to bed.
37:18I
37:19can
37:20only
37:21imagine
37:22his
37:24horror.
37:25The
37:26demons
37:27that
37:29must have
37:29haunted
37:30him about
37:30all of
37:31it.
37:35I
37:36couldn't
37:36even
37:36imagine
37:37living
37:37Brian's
37:37life.
37:39Brian
37:39had to
37:40live with
37:40the fact
37:40that
37:41the only
37:42details
37:42that are
37:42known
37:43up until
37:43the last
37:44minute
37:44of Tommy's
37:45life
37:45before he
37:46dies
37:46are in
37:47Brian's
37:47head.
37:49He's the
37:49last person.
37:52I mean,
37:53I don't know
37:54how you would
37:54live with that.
38:00That house
38:00was up for
38:01sale in less
38:02than a month.
38:04And they
38:04relocated to
38:05Florida.
38:06I never
38:08saw Brian
38:08or Tom
38:09senior
38:09again.
38:12The last
38:13words Tom
38:13senior
38:14ever muttered
38:14to me
38:15was,
38:15he'll never
38:16see me
38:16again and
38:17I can never
38:17come back
38:18to New
38:18Jersey.
38:18and I
38:23have searched
38:24and searched
38:24and searched
38:25and searched
38:26and searched
38:27and never
38:30ever been
38:31able to
38:31find him.
38:34Later in
38:35life I was
38:35told that
38:36Brian had
38:36joined the
38:36military and
38:38not too long
38:40after he had
38:42committed
38:42suicide.
38:43I'm told
38:47it was a
38:47drug overdose
38:48but I
38:49don't know.
38:52He lost
38:53his mother,
38:53he lost
38:54his brother.
38:56I can't
38:57imagine that
38:58he wasn't
38:58terribly damaged
38:59by this.
39:01Just look
39:02at this case
39:03and it's
39:03just layers
39:06and layers
39:06and layers
39:07of sadness.
39:10The first
39:11thing I
39:11thought about
39:11when I
39:12heard about
39:13Brian was
39:13I'm like
39:14does this
39:14ever go
39:15away?
39:16A small
39:16New Jersey
39:17community
39:17stunned by
39:18satanic
39:18murder
39:19suicide.
39:19When the
39:20person
39:20passes on
39:21the energy
39:22of the
39:23individual
39:24still remains.
39:25Setting
39:25fire to
39:26the family
39:26house in
39:27an attempt
39:27to kill
39:28his brother
39:28and his
39:29father
39:29were all
39:30linked
39:30to
39:31satanism.
39:32Spirits
39:33have to
39:33go somewhere.
39:35They just
39:36don't disappear.
39:38They wreak
39:38havoc in
39:39other lives.
39:40What
39:41occurred in
39:41Morris
39:41County
39:42on that
39:42night of
39:431988.
39:44Washington
39:45Township
39:45residents
39:46packed an
39:46auditorium
39:47tonight to
39:47hear more
39:48about
39:48satanism.
39:48Not only
39:49affected Tom
39:50and his
39:50mother and
39:51his brother
39:51and his
39:52dad,
39:53I can tell
39:53you that
39:53each person
39:54whose life
39:56was touched
39:56by that
39:57event
39:57carries it
40:00to this
40:00day.
40:05Probably the
40:06hardest thing
40:07about this
40:08story is
40:10just the
40:12effects on
40:13everyone.
40:14It's a
40:14small town.
40:17I mean,
40:17this will
40:18live on in
40:19the fabric of
40:20their community,
40:21I would think,
40:21forever.
40:26I am
40:27haunted.
40:28Haunted in
40:29the sense
40:29that it's
40:3035 years
40:31that I haven't
40:33been able to
40:33shake it,
40:34you know?
40:39What happened
40:42to me as a
40:4319-year-old boy
40:44being put in
40:45that situation,
40:46it really stuck
40:48with me.
40:50I had a
40:50tough time.
40:52I couldn't
40:53sleep.
40:54I wanted
40:54things to be
40:55good for them.
40:57Yeah.
40:58It was tough.
41:03Not too
41:04many years
41:04ago, I
41:05recall a
41:06conversation
41:07with Chucky
41:07and how it
41:08affected him.
41:09He apparently
41:11struggled with
41:13issues in his
41:14adult life.
41:15You would have
41:16to think that
41:17it would have
41:17been difficult.
41:19To be honest
41:20with you,
41:20I lost touch
41:20with Chucky,
41:21but I remember
41:22him being hit.
41:24It resonated
41:25differently with
41:26him like it
41:26resonated with
41:27me.
41:27For me,
41:28it was because
41:28he was my
41:28neighbor next
41:29door and
41:30because we
41:30had hung out
41:30and he and
41:32Chucky had
41:32had that
41:32relationship
41:33where it
41:33definitely
41:34resonated
41:34strongly with
41:35him.
41:36I just
41:37recently
41:37learned that
41:38Chucky also
41:39committed
41:40suicide.
41:42I was
41:42surprised and
41:43sadden to hear
41:44that he
41:44passed away.
41:45you don't
41:48see those
41:50things often
41:50happen in
41:51small communities
41:52like this.
41:53And when they
41:53do, they're
41:54not easily
41:55forgotten.
41:56You wonder
41:57how many of
41:57the other
41:58friends are
41:58sitting around
41:59all these years
42:00later still,
42:01you know,
42:01thinking about,
42:02well, maybe if I
42:03had said
42:04something or
42:05maybe they
42:05just buried
42:06it, who
42:06knows.
42:16Everybody
42:16knew that I
42:17was the one
42:17that found
42:18the bodies
42:18in town.
42:21Some people
42:21would ask me
42:22and I would
42:23just, yeah,
42:24yeah, it was
42:24terrible, you
42:25know, how do
42:27you talk to
42:28somebody that
42:29didn't see it,
42:30you know what
42:30I mean?
42:33As far as
42:34what I saw,
42:34I kind of
42:38like just
42:38blocked that
42:39out.
42:40I don't know,
42:41just kind of
42:41buried it.
42:43Like, I never
42:44got no
42:44counseling or
42:45nothing.
42:47Now, when I'm
42:48only a Christian,
42:49it makes more
42:50sense.
42:51I truly believe
42:52now that Satan
42:53played a part
42:54in it.
42:55That wasn't
42:55God's work.
42:58Everything evil
42:58that happens,
42:59Satan's involved
43:00with.
43:01I mean, you can
43:02call him whatever
43:02you want.
43:03if you really
43:05truly believe in
43:05God, then you
43:06believe in Satan.
43:08You can't believe
43:09in one without
43:09the other, if you
43:10read the Bible.
43:11The community
43:23of Jefferson
43:23is still
43:24haunted by
43:25this mystery.
43:26Why did
43:27Tommy kill
43:28his mother
43:28and himself?
43:31Was it
43:32the devil
43:32whispering promises
43:33of power
43:34and violence?
43:35Do I believe
43:45in the possibility
43:46of supernatural
43:47forces?
43:49Absolutely.
43:50Absolutely.
43:52There are dark
43:53forces out there
43:54and there are
43:55people that are
43:56going to succumb
43:56to, you know,
43:58to the devil.
43:59I don't know.
44:00Sometimes evil
44:04wins.
44:06Or was it
44:06a mind
44:07pushed to
44:07the edge?
44:10Breaking
44:10under the
44:11weight of it.
44:11There's something
44:12we can't fully
44:13know or understand.
44:15The really scary
44:18part of it
44:19for me
44:19is that
44:20a 14-year-old
44:21kid could be
44:22angry enough
44:23to do this.
44:25There's
44:25true evil
44:26out there.
44:27It doesn't
44:27have to be
44:28supernatural
44:29or anything.
44:31I think
44:32he was a
44:32very, very
44:33sick boy.
44:35And he
44:36needed help.
44:36You won't even
44:37talk to me.
44:39This story
44:39has captured
44:40the imagination
44:41of people
44:42trying to
44:43understand
44:43or explain
44:44the unexplainable.
44:47Because no one
44:48can really
44:49explain the
44:50nature of
44:51rage
44:52or what's
44:54really going
44:55on in the
44:55mind of a
44:5614-year-old
44:57kid.
45:07What keeps
45:08us all up
45:09at night
45:09is that
45:10no matter
45:10how safe
45:11our world
45:11feels around
45:12us,
45:13there's always
45:13that malevolence
45:14creeping in the
45:15shadows.
45:16And you
45:17never know
45:17when it's
45:18going to
45:18strike.
45:21But why
45:22the Sullivan's?
45:24The truth
45:24is,
45:25we'll never
45:26know.
45:26because the
45:27only person
45:28that can
45:28give us
45:28answers
45:29is Tommy.
45:31And he
45:32has disappeared
45:32into the
45:33silence of
45:34his own
45:35tragic end.
45:36the
45:39of the
45:49world
45:52of the
45:53earth
45:53and
45:54the
45:54entire
45:55world
45:56and
45:56the
45:57earth
45:58and
45:58the
45:59the
45:59and
45:59the
46:00and
46:00the
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44:27
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