00:00This question is mostly for the Secretary of State, but Tonister, if you want to come in on it.
00:05We just had confirmation that Ireland, which is suing the country of which you're a Cabinet Minister,
00:12I'm not aware of you ever even having criticised that case, but maybe you did.
00:16But certainly there was no talk of retaliatory action, and a lot of people will think that you have appeased
00:21all this gushing talk about good relations, a country that sued you.
00:25Also, in 2005, this context is very important to this case, sorry, just briefly.
00:31In 2005, you were in Tony Blair's government, who proposed a fuller amnesty.
00:37I don't know whether internally you opposed that. We did ask you about that the other day.
00:40You didn't answer it. Yet when the Conservative government proposed a lesser conditional amnesty,
00:46you were totally opposed to it, despite the fact that Ireland sued you when its former Justice Minister,
00:53not just a politician. Its former Justice Minister said that it had a de facto amnesty for IRA terrorists,
01:00which most people would believe there's no effort whatsoever on the part of the Irish government
01:03to pursue that. And I just wanted you to answer that point about that this is a capitulation to them.
01:09And to the Tonister, you sounded very high-minded that you took this action and you exhausted every other route
01:15and you didn't want to do it. But what about the fact that you took the action in the context
01:20of a de facto amnesty for the IRA? And there's not even a process in this that I can see
01:25to address this. Ireland's asked to have the fullest possible cooperation to address, for example,
01:31the fact that for 30 years, 103 out of 110 extradition requests were refused,
01:38as a result of which certainly our readers would believe many Protestants along the border were massacred.
01:43And I just wanted to ask you both about that context.
01:48This is not a capitulation of anybody to anybody else. And we can continue to go over the pain,
01:58the suffering, the problems, the difficulties of the past. But for the families who are sitting at home today,
02:06what they're interested in is, am I getting an answer to what happened?
02:11And that is about the future. And at some point, we have to move beyond the pain and the suffering
02:17and the events of the past and fashion a way of dealing with this problem,
02:24which is exactly what this document does.
02:28Secondly, look, I'd say on the interstate case, of course it's a matter for the Irish government,
02:32but I'm quite confident that the arrangements that I intend to put in place will make the body
02:37that we're going to reform human rights compliant. And since, as I understand,
02:41the base of the case is what the last government created was not human rights compliant,
02:45which the courts themselves have agreed with, well, the problem will have been solved.
02:52But it is a matter for the Irish government.
02:53On your question about the 2005 legislation, I would disagree with your characterisation of what it offered
03:01at the time, and what was contained in the government's Legacy Act.
03:06Because having read what was proposed, as you know, that 2005 bill was eventually withdrawn,
03:14because it had no support in Northern Ireland. Well, that's rather familiar, isn't it?
03:18Because that's why we're standing here, because the Legacy Act had no support in Northern Ireland at all.
03:24And what that would have provided for would have enabled people still to be prosecuted and convicted,
03:31but not then to have served any sentence. And therefore, the suggestion has been made that
03:36the immunity provisions are somehow a lesser version of what was in 2005.
03:41In my view, the reverse is the case, because the Legacy Act proposals would have meant people
03:48would have complete immunity from prosecution and would have faced no process at all.
03:52And that is a fundamental difference compared to what was put forward 20 years ago.
03:57Yeah, look, I'd simply add, I don't believe we'd be in a situation where we'd have to take
04:03an interesting case had we had the sort of meaningful engagement with the British government
04:08then that we've had over the last nine months. I also believe we could have actually seen
04:13the cross-border cooperation and indeed Ireland's legislation, as we now intend to legislate for,
04:19to cooperate with the Legacy Commission, which I think is really important for people
04:23right across the island. I don't come to this suggesting that anybody has, you know,
04:30any sort of kind of monopony here. There's things that we need to do across the island
04:34and across the islands to bring healing, to bring truth, to bring justice.
04:39But what I would say, and I would say very firmly, is we in Angard of Shea Kona in our jurisdiction
04:44do and will investigate any unresolved cases that happened in our jurisdiction and indeed
04:51would welcome any complaints in relation to any unresolved criminal activity.
04:57And the establishment of a legacy unit in Angard of Shea Kona is a further step, I think,
05:01in recognising that and recognising the importance of it.
05:04And I've had meetings with victims, families, with survivors, from a range of traditions,
05:11a range of different backgrounds, and I've been very struck by what they've said.
05:13And I hope that everybody who brings up this doctrine in today, well, see, this is not just
05:17a list of things the British government's going to do, but there's also a number of things
05:21that the Irish government is committing to do, to play our part in this legacy framework.
05:25But Irish, sorry, Irish Republican terrorists speak freely about their terrorism in your
05:30territory, to honest to you.
05:32We've gone through a peace process in this country.
05:36There's lots of blame and responsibility for heinous acts to go across, and I despise terrorist
05:41organisations and terrorism.
05:43But we also have laws of violence that we apply with if you're a favour in our country.
05:48Shonine from Marriage Times.
05:50Good afternoon.
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