The Central Council of Jews in Germany is marking its 75th anniversary this year. Founded five years after the Holocaust ended, its mission is to speak for "Jews in Germany." DW spoke with the president of the Central Council of Jews, Josef Schuster, about antisemitism, criticism toward Israel's government and Jewish life in Germany.
00:00Mr. Schuster, you are celebrating 75 years of the Central Council of Jews in Germany.
00:06In 1945 the Shoah was over.
00:08Just five years later, in 1950, the Central Council was founded as a representative body,
00:14as a religious, social, but also as a political body in the country of the perpetrators.
00:20That's actually amazing. How much courage and strength did it take back then?
00:25The founding of the Central Council in 1950 was not the first step in Jewish life after the Shoah.
00:35Surprisingly, a whole series of Jewish communities were re-founded in the summer of 1945,
00:41the year the war ended, for example in Munich or in WĂĽrzburg.
00:47With the increase in the number of Jewish communities,
00:51it certainly made sense to have an interest group that represented the interests of the newly founded Jewish communities,
00:58and in particular provided assistance to the people who were organized in those communities.
01:04Because people were not thinking of re-establishing Jewish life permanently in Germany,
01:09but instead the idea was to help people who wanted to continue on their path,
01:14be it to Israel or to the USA or elsewhere in the world.
01:19Matters developed differently, Jewish life in Germany grew.
01:24Where does it stand today, 75 years later?
01:2775 years after its founding, we now have lively Jewish life throughout Germany,
01:37really from Flensburg to Munich, from Aachen to Cottbus, in 105 Jewish communities.
01:43In this respect, one might think that everything is fine.
01:47Jewish life is flourishing.
01:49In one way that's true, but in another way it's not,
01:52because especially since the 7th of October 2023, when Hamas attacked Israel,
01:58we have unfortunately also faced increasing anti-Semitism and hatred against Jews in Germany.
02:04There are now 250,000 Jews in Germany, about half of them are members of the Jewish community.
02:13The number has also been declining slightly since 2006,
02:17because not so many Jewish immigrants resettling from the former Soviet Union have arrived.
02:22How do you see the future?
02:24The Jewish communities have a demographic problem.
02:30The aging process leads to the fact that you correctly described.
02:35The number of community members has decreased somewhat.
02:39I think this will continue for a while.
02:42There will be consolidation.
02:44I can imagine that this or that Jewish community will merge with a nearby community.
02:51There may not be 105 Jewish communities then,
02:56but I'm not worried that Jewish communities might not continue to exist throughout Germany.
03:03The Central Council is the association of all Jewish communities, whether orthodox or liberal.
03:10You are not a supreme religious authority with decision-making powers,
03:14as we know it from the Christian churches, from the Catholic Church for example.
03:18You are a cultural association and above all a political body.
03:22The task of the Central Council is to represent the interests of the Jewish people in Germany politically,
03:32regardless of their religious orientation.
03:35You said it, regardless of denomination.
03:38Under the umbrella of the Central Council, there are both orthodox-led congregations and liberal congregations.
03:45Under the umbrella of the Central Council, there are also two rabbinical training centers, orthodox and liberal.
03:52And there's also a corresponding association of rabbis on the orthodox and also on the liberal side.
03:5875 years after the Central Council was founded, the number of anti-Semitic incidents of crimes against Jews and other incidents is higher than ever before. Why is that?
04:10If I had the answer to this question, it would be easier to fight against it.
04:22It is also incomprehensible why, for example, prejudices against decisions made in Israel are projected onto Jews in Germany, who are German citizens.
04:32I can't help but get the impression that age-old anti-Jewish stereotypes, which are still present in the population, somewhere beneath the surface at least, come to the fore again in such situations.
04:52This increase in anti-Semitic incidents has been seen over the last ten years.
04:58So not only in the last two years since Hamas attacked Israel and Israel then reacted militarily and started the war in Gaza.
05:06Is the fact that this has been increasing for so long related to an increasing right-wing extremist attitude in Germany?
05:14It is a question of chicken and egg. Which came first? The fact is that we are getting further and further away in time from the Shoah.
05:26In the years after the Shoah, I believe that the events of the Third Reich were much more present in people's minds.
05:33That generated a certain degree of protection against racism and anti-Semitism.
05:40The generation that lived through that no longer exists, or almost does not exist anymore.
05:46And in the younger generations, we see that the historical events, what happened in history, are slowly moving further away.
05:54For them, it is becoming the past, and it is no longer projected onto the present.
06:01The AfD party, which is to a great extent a right-wing extremist party, has celebrated major electoral successes in the last ten years.
06:13You once said that if the AfD at some point actually takes over government in Germany, then it would be time for Jews to leave the country. Is that true?
06:22I said this sentence, and I stand by this sentence unchanged. I cannot imagine a radical right-wing party like the AfD participating in a government at the federal level in a way that's compatible with Jewish life.
06:36You also mentioned that Jews in Germany are often equated with Israel or the Israeli government. Why is there no differentiation? That there is this prejudice?
06:48Is it perhaps in part because the Central Council and also the German government are very much on the side of Israel and the Israeli government, especially in the current conflict?
06:58To be honest, I don't think that is the reason. It is a fact that the Central Council and also the members of the Council and myself, of course, have sympathy for Israel.
07:16Quite simply, in history, if there had been a country like Israel, to which, as Israeli law says, every Jew has the right to immigrate at any time, events would not have happened as they did.
07:30So it should not be surprising that people here, including me, certainly do not always see the decisions in Israel objectively or that the German government has a corresponding attitude towards the Jewish state after the events of the Third Reich.
07:47But that does not mean that all decisions made by the Israeli government are therefore approved by everyone in the German government or by all Jews in Germany.
07:57So one should differentiate more between the government of Benjamin Netanyahu and the Jews in Germany?
08:09Exactly, quite so.
08:11Then the question is, why doesn't this happen? Do people want to cultivate prejudice against Jews, so to speak, or what is the reason for this?
08:20I believe that if we had the solution or knew the cause, we would certainly find it easier to combat the situation.
08:30The fact is that some people are very happy to equate a government in Israel and the actions of a government in Israel with Jews all over the world, which is clearly wrong.
08:41When does it become a problem? It becomes problematic when the three Ds are applied, when Israel is demonized, when double standards are applied to Israel that are not applied to other countries, or Israel is delegitimized, i.e. the right of the state of Israel to exist is denied.
09:03Apart from that, to criticize a government, be it the Netanyahu government, or theoretically also decisions of the German government, that is something quite legitimate in a democracy.
09:16We are in the building of the central council of Jews in Berlin. There are police in front of the building. In Berlin alone there are about 200 Israeli and Jewish institutions which need to be permanently protected by the police. Some Jews face trouble if they identify themselves as Jews in public. Do you still feel safe?
09:39We have to differentiate. You mentioned Berlin. To openly identify oneself as a Jew by wearing a Kippah or a Star of David has indeed become problematic in quite a few neighborhoods in Berlin, and I expressly regret that.
09:57But Berlin is not that. But Berlin is not Germany. We have different situations. We have problems in cities like Berlin, in big cities like Frankfurt. But in many places in the Federal Republic of Germany, you can move around as a Jew without having to worry.
10:16You are wearing the ribbon for the hostages who are still in the hands of Hamas. There are probably five of these hostages who are still alive who are German citizens. Do you think the German government is doing enough to get them out?
10:34Isn't it necessary to put more pressure on Hamas, of course, but also on Israel, on the government there?
10:46I think we have to be clear. The whole conflict, including the situation of the hostages, would be resolved in one day if Hamas laid down its arms and released the hostages. The whole conflict would be over. So the key lies with Hamas.
11:02Of course, the Central Council of Jews deals with these political issues. You have spoken about that. But there is also another side. You also promote cultural life, youth work, sports and other things. For example, I see that there is something called Jewrovision. This is a play on words, of course, based on the Eurovision Song Contest. What goes on at Jewrovision?
11:29It's a music and dance competition for the youth centers of the Jewish communities. A motto is given, and once a year on a weekend, the youth groups meet and present their contribution, around four minutes long, with music and dance on this topic.
11:50It's a competition that has become very established. It attracts about 1,500 to 2,000 spectators at each location and is of inestimable value for the young people to get to know other young people and share the community experience.
12:12There is also a joyful Jewish life, not only anti-Semitism. There is absolutely also happy Jewish life, not only the problem of anti-Semitism, thank God.
12:24Mr. Schuster, thank you very much. You're welcome.
12:28Mr. Schuster, thank you very much. You're welcome.
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