- 5 months ago
For this week’s NME In Conversation, we sat down with JADE to talk about her showbiz heroes, her recent collaboration with Confidence Man, and her willingness to speak out about LGBTQ+ issues and other causes she believes in.
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00:00You have just done a collaboration with Confidence Man, Gossip, which has the
00:04iconic line, Tina says you're a cunt. Did you second-guess yourself about being
00:08able to release that? Did you think, can that be a lyric for me? Well the good thing
00:11about that was it was released to their label not mine, so when I said Tina says
00:17you're a cunt I thought, not my problem. Hi I'm Nick and I'm joined by Jade for the
00:30latest in Enemies in Conversation series. How's it going today? Good, yes, very good.
00:35Just got back from holiday, so I'm feeling refreshed. And full-on now, between now and
00:41album release? Oh it's gonna be absolutely relentless, and I'm ready for it. I love it.
00:46Does it feel different doing it by itself as opposed to with your bandmates?
00:49Has it got a different vibe? It's different in like good and bad ways. It's good in that
00:53obviously there's a lot more freedom now on my own, like the schedule is what I want it
00:58to be, I'm doing opportunities that just I want to do. Obviously music-wise I've got
01:04so much more freedom now, but there are times when it's quite difficult, like
01:08getting used to like doing interviews on my own, or if I'm tired you know there's
01:14nothing to bounce off anymore, or like have banter with. Things like that, which
01:19just took a minute to get used to. But I do love it, I must say.
01:24What was the starting point for the album? I was kind of wondering like did you kind
01:28of have a very clear idea of what you wanted to be at the start, or was it a
01:31little bit of trying and trial and error, finding your sound? What kind of songs you
01:34wanted to write? I think I knew kind of who I am on my own and what I wanted to show, but there was a lot of trial and error initially.
01:44As soon as Little Mix did our final two hour date, I pretty much went straight in the studio with M&E K, who's a really good friend of mine.
01:54And it meant that we could just spend like literally months just trying different things and seeing what lands, like what do I love writing, what is my style now on my own, like lyrically what do I want to say.
02:06It took a minute, and I'm really glad that I took my time with it because I feel like now when I look back, what that must have been, 2022?
02:16And some of those songs I do feel like are too similar to like Little Mix World, so I think it took me a minute to like learn how to not write a Little Mix song.
02:26And that, you know, which I loved, obviously, very proud of that. But I think because I took it literally like two years, maybe more to like find myself again, I think it was really worth it.
02:38It was worth the wait because then I really was competent enough to be a lot more experimental with music and be a lot more like brutally honest with what I want to sing and write about.
02:48If I'd gone all guns blazing, like right off the back of the group, I wouldn't have had the success I have now, or the songs that I have now.
02:56At the start of the process, were you fully confident as a songwriter? Because you'd written quite a lot of Little Mix songs, but always with your bandmates, like it's always the three of you kind of doing it together.
03:05Yeah, I think I loved songwriting and I knew it was something I wanted to do more of, not just for me, but for the artists.
03:11So like towards the end of the group, I was like writing for other artists, I was starting to like become more known as a songwriter.
03:19And I think in the UK, I really do, I do own that and I feel really confident about that.
03:24But I think when I was initially flying to LA to be in these rooms with like really big producers and really big songwriters, I would get in my own head a little bit initially, because it did feel like starting again.
03:36Just because I was in this huge girl band doesn't mean I was going to get given all these opportunities overnight.
03:42You know, I had to work my way up again, especially in LA.
03:47So I had to do a lot of like pushing myself and forcing myself into rooms that I might have been uncomfortable with,
03:55because I had to challenge myself to become a better writer and just get more confident.
03:59I didn't understand that, you know, so many writers and producers work differently and the whole first album was about finding the people I love working with.
04:08So there were some amazing sessions, there were some really crap ones.
04:12There were ones where, you know, I didn't gel with the producer in the room, things like that.
04:16But I had to keep like speed dating all these creatives to like find my people.
04:23And I'm really proud of myself actually for pushing myself to do that, because I would just fly to LA on my own.
04:27And this is, you know, even before I had a lot of my team around me, like I was meeting with different managements, different labels.
04:35And yeah, just figuring out like who my people were.
04:38So, yeah.
04:40At this point in your career, are you able to kind of shake off a bad session?
04:43Can you rationalise in your head, say it's not me, it's about the chemistry?
04:46Or is there still a part of you that thinks, oh God, I was in the room with this really big person.
04:50It just didn't work.
04:51It doesn't matter how big you are.
04:52I think everyone has those moments where like if you have a bad session, you come out and you're like,
04:55I'm the worst writer in the world.
04:58Or like, that was terrible.
04:59I think there's a lot of pressure as well when you only have a day or two with a really big producer or another core writer.
05:06And, you know, you always want to give the best first impression.
05:09And sometimes if I was doing two, three sessions in a day, that can be really exhausting just like energy wise.
05:14And I had to stop doing that because by the end of it, my head just wasn't there.
05:18And I hate the idea that those people weren't getting the best of me.
05:22So, yeah, but I've got better at shaking that off.
05:24And actually, I've got a few like really amazing songwriter friends who, if I feel like that, I can like message or reach out to.
05:31And they're like, babe, everybody feels that way now and again.
05:34It's just, you know, it's like any job, isn't it?
05:36You're not going to excel every single day you turn up for work.
05:40Like that's not human.
05:41And I've learned along the way as well that sometimes when I really don't want to go to a writing session, I should just go.
05:49Sometimes you'll write your best music when you can't be arsed.
05:53Genuinely.
05:55You know, that's how like Angel was written.
05:58Fantasy.
06:00I just literally did a writing trip and I was so busy beforehand.
06:04I felt really uninspired and like I really couldn't be bothered to do it.
06:07But I forced myself to turn up every day and then, you know, and then you love it and you're like, oh, yeah.
06:13Oh, yeah, I do really love this.
06:15Was there a particular song that's made the album that in the process felt like pivotal?
06:19Like when you wrote, you buy it, we've got it, we've hit the stride now.
06:22I think 100% Asia of my dreams was the moment because up until that point, there were a couple of songs.
06:28I was like, oh, maybe this is the first single, but I didn't have that like, this is it or like, this is special.
06:34And I think it is true, like every artist says that when you find the big one or the one you know is, you know, quintessentially you as an artist.
06:44You get that like, belly feeling, you get the butterflies, you see the music video in your head.
06:49And yeah, the morning of Angel of My Dreams, I was having a like, mental breakdown because I was in LA, I was lonely.
06:57I'd been doing all these sessions and nothing was clicking.
07:00I'd just got a phone call that morning to say that the head of the label was leaving.
07:04So I was freaking out about that because sometimes, you know, if someone new comes into the equation at a big label,
07:11if they don't champion you, if they're not there from the beginning, you know, they might be as invested or passionate about the project.
07:17So I was really, really freaking out about that.
07:19And I didn't want to go to the session.
07:22The only reason I went was because one of my friends, Pablo, who I wrote the song with, was going to be there.
07:27And I thought, I can't let him down.
07:28So I was waltzing in a terrible mood.
07:31And, you know, I was ranting and raving about the music industry and how much I hate it.
07:35And it's so fickle and all these things.
07:37And then we wrote Angel of My Dreams.
07:41So that was the turning point for me.
07:43And that was the moment where I was like, this is the first single.
07:47This is what I want to tell everyone.
07:48And, like, this is the perfect introduction into the Jade world.
07:53Did everyone agree with you at the label and on your team?
07:55They were all surprised.
07:56Yeah.
07:56And I was surprised because I think it's such a chaotic song.
08:00And it's not, you know, it's not a safe bet.
08:02It's not really radio friendly.
08:04It doesn't feel like anything else.
08:05No.
08:05So I was, like, expecting a fight.
08:08I was expecting the label to be like, oh, like, it's great, but maybe not good for a first look or, you know, whatever.
08:15But everyone across the board was like, it's the first single.
08:18And that was such a relief as well.
08:20And I think that was the catalyst to, like, forming the rest of the album.
08:23It gave me the courage to be like, okay, when I'm my authentic self, which is, like, pop loving, you know, genre sort of experience,
08:35experimenting and, like, Frankenstein and these pop songs together.
08:38I think that's where I thrive the most.
08:40When I'm in a room with people that are up for that, like, they're up for having fun with it, changing the tempo or the vibe or whatever that is.
08:48And I was really grateful that everyone was on board.
08:51What's the overall story you're telling with the album?
08:54I mean, That Show is Baby is such a kind of great evocative title from the start.
08:57Yeah, I think with That Show is Baby, this is my first album.
09:00I want people listening to feel like they are literally hearing me find my sound.
09:06Obviously, my voice is the running thread and maybe some of the concepts, but it is a bit, like, all over the place.
09:11And I wanted it to sound like that.
09:13I want you to listen to it and be like, oh, God, what's the next track?
09:15Like, what's she coming out with next?
09:16Because that's true.
09:18That's what I was doing for the last three years.
09:19I was, you know, in many different writing rooms, trying many different kinds of songs.
09:24And so the first record especially should reflect that journey.
09:27You know, it'll be time, years to come, to do, like, a super sophisticated, cohesive album.
09:32But I think That Show is Baby is about chaos.
09:35It's about showing people all of the, like, musical influences that I had growing up.
09:41I went back to, like, okay, what did Jade love listening to before Little Mix?
09:46Like, who was I before then?
09:47What did I grow up loving?
09:48And how can I sort of merge those influences into, like, one pop record?
09:54And That Show is Baby wasn't the original title.
09:58The fans kind of stared me that way.
09:59When I released It Girl, one of the lyrics is That Show is Baby.
10:03And in my head I had a different album title and I was really hellbent on it.
10:08But then I saw all the, like, fans commenting online, like, about how amazing the lyrics were for the song.
10:13They kept referencing That Show is Baby and that made me be like, oh, I feel like this fits better, actually, for what the album organically became.
10:22And it says a lot.
10:23Like, I do think I'm very tongue-in-cheek.
10:25I don't take myself too seriously.
10:27I like to laugh at my, like, traumas and shortcomings.
10:30And, you know, I feel like my music a lot of the time has, like, a dark undertone, but it's quite playful.
10:36And I feel like That Show is Baby, just as a phrase, embodies that.
10:40So it is the perfect album title, I think.
10:43Are you quite good at switching between, like, showbiz on mode and then just, like, downtime, not showbiz at all mode?
10:48Oh, absolutely.
10:49I do feel like I have, like, double life vibes.
10:51It's very Hannah Montana, actually.
10:54You know, I love being in a pop star with every fibre of my being.
10:58Like, I really do fucking love it.
11:02But then I love when I go home that I can just put my pyjamas on and sit with my dogs and my boyfriend, my best friend, watch the telly and just be really normal.
11:12Like, and I feel like that is one of the reasons why I've remained sane in the last, like, 14 years of my music career.
11:19Because I'm able to separate the two.
11:23And I've seen it so much over the years.
11:25Like, I've met so many people along the way who I think don't know how to switch that off.
11:31And that's where, like, problems begin.
11:34I think I've got a really good team of people around me as well that keep me grounded.
11:38Like, I am very family orientated.
11:40I still live with my best friend from school.
11:42And I think that's important to have those people there that, like, if I come in from work, like, my best friend, Holly, she's just not arsed in the slightest about what I do.
11:51She's obviously very proud.
11:52But, like...
11:53She still expects you to take the pins out.
11:55Absolutely.
11:56So, and I think that's important to have.
11:59And also, it's more exciting for me because I do feel like that means that being Jade the Pop Star is, like, it's, like, another persona.
12:06It's, like, almost like a drag persona, which I'm also very influenced by, like, drag culture.
12:10Because these queens, you know, they have their day-to-day life and then they transform into these magical dolls.
12:17And, you know, they have a whole other personality and stage presence.
12:22And I think that helps me, like, channel that confidence by knowing it's almost like a different character on stage.
12:29You mentioned the album reflecting some of your childhood influences.
12:32There's a song on there, Stop, which features...
12:35I couldn't tell if it was a kind of sample or interpolation of Stop in the Name of Love by Diana Ross and the Supremes.
12:41What made you want to do that?
12:42Because it's quite audacious.
12:42It's such an iconic song.
12:43I know, and, you know, it is...
12:45You have to be careful when you're sampling something that's iconic.
12:48But I think what's really lovely about Before You Break My Heart...
12:51I couldn't call it stop for copyright reasons.
12:54Oh, I think my streams had stopped.
12:56You can call it what you want.
12:58Yeah, I think what's really special about that is the chorus vocal is actually me as a child singing it.
13:05Oh.
13:05Yeah, so the song's about me sort of not forgetting my younger self and how, like, far we've come together.
13:13Not, like, losing sight of that in this showbiz world.
13:16And I wrote it with Pablo Borman and Mike Sabbath.
13:20And I was showing Mike loads of different, like, childhood videos and me singing in, like, competitions or talent shows.
13:28And I played them and me dressed as Diana Ross singing in Stop the Name of Love.
13:32And that just inspired the song.
13:34Who taped it? Was it your mum who taped all the...
13:37Yeah, I think so.
13:38Yeah.
13:38Very low quality.
13:40But I think that's the magic of it.
13:41I think it was important for me on the album to have, like, just one song that really, like, fed that part of myself.
13:49And it is such an iconic song.
13:51And I think because of that, I almost, I didn't want to make it too experimental.
13:58Like, it is what it is.
14:00It's obviously very obvious that that's the sample.
14:03And we run with it throughout the whole song.
14:05And sort of honour or homage to Diana Ross, because she is my favourite artist of all time.
14:10What was the story behind Unconditional?
14:12Because that song's got this big blast of guitars on it that people might not expect from you either.
14:15Yeah, the element of surprise is, like, what I love to do.
14:19I like people to hear my music, but, oh, God, like, I wasn't expecting that.
14:24And I think Unconditional was the last song that made it on the album.
14:28Again, with Pablo and Mike.
14:30I was having a really tough time.
14:32The song's about my mum, and, like, she's got lupus, and she's had that my whole life.
14:36The week that we wrote Unconditional, my mum was in hospital.
14:39And I was obviously very upset about that.
14:41So I went in the studio with Pablo and Mike, taught them what was going on.
14:44And literally, in between that session, I was, like, in and out of the studio room,
14:48like, on the phone to the hospital, and my brother.
14:50And it was all very touch and go.
14:52And the song, Unconditional, is about just my, like, undying love for my mum.
14:59And the hope that, like, I wish I could just fix it, but I can't, sort of thing.
15:04And then the musical references for it, I think, in how much to my mum, like, she loved,
15:08she loves Diana Ross, she loves, like, disco.
15:12So I think you can hear that, but I wanted to merge it with a bit of, like, MGMT vibes.
15:18I think you can hear that with, like, the sort of synth sounds and a bit of gossip, maybe.
15:23Yeah, I wondered if that.
15:25It kind of sounded a bit Blondie meets Gossip.
15:26Right, I mean, I'll take that all day.
15:28And I've got no problem with, like, admitting references.
15:32I think it's important, especially for this first album.
15:35Like I say, it was all about me, like, experimenting, being like, oh, a bit of this with a bit of that.
15:39And in that session, you know, I was playing all these different genres and different songs.
15:43I mean, like, how can we, you know, merge it?
15:45And I love, like, Frankenstein and a song together and making people feel emotional,
15:51but, like, almost in a confused way.
15:53Because Unconditional is really sad, but then you've got that, like, elevated chorus
15:57where it's, like, this whimsical disco reference.
16:01I love the idea of people, like, blasting it in the house and dancing around like this,
16:06but me and me, like, crying at the same time.
16:08The ideal reaction?
16:09Yeah.
16:10Happy Sad Songs.
16:11That's my favourite.
16:12What were the influences on Self-Saboteur?
16:14Is it partly like a RuPaul in the Saboteur thing?
16:16Was that playing in your mind at all, I wondered?
16:18Yeah, Self-Saboteur was one of the first songs that I wrote for the album,
16:22and it managed to still make it.
16:25So I think that speaks volume for, like, how good I think it is.
16:30It was originally a lot more stripped back, actually.
16:33But that song is about when I first met Jordan,
16:36and I think prior to Jordan I really did have a habit of just, like,
16:40ruining something or, like, running away before it, like, got good.
16:44So Self-Saboteur is kind of about that feeling of knowing something feels amazing,
16:48but you're very scared of it in case it goes wrong and, like, proves you right sort of thing.
16:53So I really do love that one, and I love what it became.
16:56I think the really long, like, outro in Self-Saboteur, it's, like, very cool.
17:01We kind of did that last minute to kind of help make it feel more fitting
17:07for what the album became, because I feel like that show is babies.
17:11It's very loud.
17:12It's very noisy as a pop record.
17:15And originally Self-Saboteur was very, like, hello.
17:18So we had to, like, give it a bit of umph.
17:20Do you find it hard to play a song for someone if it's about that person,
17:23if it's about your mum or about Jordan, about anyone?
17:26I never played me my own conditional.
17:28You haven't? She's still heard it.
17:29I think she's heard it via someone else, but I do.
17:32I get really awkward with it.
17:34I don't know. It feels quite vulnerable.
17:36And, like, with Jordan, I'll play him all my music
17:38because I really value his opinion, like, as a fellow musician.
17:41But I definitely get nervous when I play him things
17:43because I find it hard to talk about how I feel.
17:46So sometimes I'll not speak to that person.
17:48I'll just write it in a song instead.
17:50And I'll be like...
17:51And then, you know, he'll hear it and be like,
17:53oh, OK, that's how you were feeling at that point.
17:56OK, that makes a lot more sense now.
17:57Even now, like, when we first started the launch of this project,
18:01I'd have to go in all these rooms with, like, radios
18:04and all those people and sit in these meetings and play the music
18:07and just be sat there, like...
18:09And everyone would say, like...
18:11I just find that so awkward.
18:14But you kind of have to play the game and that's him.
18:16Do you mind discussing what a song's about,
18:18I say, having asked you to say about...
18:20No, because I know some artists...
18:21I think Lorde says now she doesn't want to.
18:23Oh, really?
18:24Yeah, and she's not the only artist who thinks that.
18:26I think there's some songs where I feel like there isn't a need to.
18:28I like doing it at this phase of my career
18:31because I like to show people that I do actually write my own music.
18:35I feel like being in a girl band,
18:38you spend years convincing people that you actually are a credible artist.
18:43And I think that is my own ego, too, to a degree.
18:47I've definitely got a bit of a chip on my shoulder
18:49about, like, feeling like an underdog
18:51or having to prove to people that I'm, like, worthy of a seat at the table or whatever.
18:56So, for me right now, I think it is important to talk about my music
18:59because people that mightn't have known that might listen and be like,
19:02oh, oh, I didn't realise that shit.
19:04It actually comes from her.
19:05But, yeah, I don't think that means that every song needs an explanation.
19:08It needs a full, like, run-through.
19:10No.
19:10Is there a lot of, like, if you've got a lot of material kind of waiting in the wings,
19:13could there be a companion album or EP further down the line?
19:16Yeah.
19:16Yeah.
19:17There's hundreds of songs.
19:19And it was really difficult to pick the songs for the album.
19:25There's so much music that I still love and adore.
19:27And I had to, like, mourn the idea that they wouldn't make it on the album
19:31because you can't have, like, a 50-track album, obviously.
19:34But I am inspired by, like, I remember Uzo and Emonique saying this to me all the time
19:40when I panicked about stuff like this.
19:41He was like, Break My Soul by Beyoncé is, like, eight years old before it came out.
19:46And if that, I think that's true.
19:47But there's so many songs like that that have, you know, sat on the shelf until the right moment came for it.
19:52So I do believe in that.
19:54Like, if the music's meant to come out, it will.
19:55And, you know, I will be wanting to do a sort of deluxe version of that show, Miss Bailey.
20:00But I think it'll be...
20:01I want it to almost be, like, a new album because that's long gone.
20:05Now the idea of, like, sticking three more tracks on it, I will be like, here's the deluxe.
20:08I feel like you have to think of new ways to make that exciting for people.
20:14And just for me, like, genuinely as well, like, I want to feel excited by it.
20:18So why not make it almost like a new project?
20:20Yeah.
20:20Like a sort of sister project to the debut album.
20:24It almost has to be a sequel now, doesn't it?
20:26Yeah.
20:27Yeah.
20:27So that's definitely how I'm thinking about it.
20:29And, like I say, there's so much music, you know, with similar concepts.
20:33So it would be very fitting to, like, carry that on.
20:37And because I've tried so many different sounds as well, I've got so many songs that, you know,
20:41didn't fit the vibe of this album.
20:43But that's not to say they won't fit something else in the future.
20:47Well, from what you're saying, it sounds like there could be some really amazing songs
20:49that just weren't loud enough for this album that were a bit too subdued.
20:52But they could be amazing songs melodically, like, lyrically.
20:55Yeah, yeah.
20:56So I think, and also, like, you shouldn't, like, change up every song just because you
21:01want it to fit on an album.
21:03There's certain songs that are quite Dania and Reiki at Sea.
21:08They didn't need all the bells and whistles.
21:10So when the time's right, I, like, release something like that, I will.
21:13When we spoke to Sugar Babes in March, they said that they started writing a song with
21:18you, but they didn't think it was finished.
21:19I think they maybe said there's a chorus in a verse.
21:20Have you had a chance to go back to it?
21:22No, I mean, I'd love to.
21:23We're just both so busy at the minute.
21:25Like, they're absolutely smashing it.
21:27And when they wanted me to join their session, I was like, it's the Sugar Babes.
21:31Like, I love them so much.
21:34I think they're incredible.
21:36And I was very honoured to, like, even be in the room with them.
21:40And when you see them sing together just in a studio environment, I was honestly blown
21:45away.
21:45They're like, they really, their voices together is just heavenly.
21:49Like, they really are meant to be a girl group together.
21:53Yeah, it felt like a really special experience just getting in the room with them, to be honest.
21:58Is there anyone else you'd particularly like to write with or for?
22:00I'd love to write more K-pop music.
22:03Eek.
22:03I think there's a lot of freedom with K-pop.
22:06I like that it's all a bit chaotic.
22:09I loved the gnarly song by Katzai because I just liked that it was bold and adventurous.
22:15And I think with K-pop, there is, like, less limitations to what you kind of can't do with
22:20pop music.
22:22I find that really inspiring.
22:23There is a kind of, like, Xenomania vibe to their music, especially the girl bands.
22:29I'd love to, like, I'd love to work with, like, Chappell.
22:32I think she's amazing.
22:33I think we've got a sort of similar love of, like, theatricality with our vocals.
22:39So I'd be interested to see, like, what could come of that.
22:44And she kind of likes a chaotic vibe on certain songs.
22:46I do, yeah.
22:46She can do big tempo switches.
22:48She can do it all.
22:49Like, her vocals are amazing.
22:50And I like, I'm a very sort of more is more girl.
22:54I like maximalist pop.
22:56I like when you're, you know, throwing the kitchen sink in.
23:00That's very much my vibe.
23:01So I look at Chappell and I'm like, you get it.
23:04You have just done a collaboration with Confidence Man.
23:07Yeah.
23:07Gossip, which has the iconic line, Tina says your cunt.
23:11Did you second guess yourself about being able to release that?
23:13Did you think, can that be a lyric for me?
23:15Or were you just dead set on it?
23:16Well, the good thing about that was it was released to their label, not mine.
23:20So when I said, Tina says your cunt, I thought, not my problem.
23:26You can deal with that.
23:27It's on fans now.
23:29People at Brighton Privacy have the fans.
23:31Yeah.
23:31And that was just, they sent me the song, like, the original version of it.
23:36And again, I was just drawn to their chaos.
23:38Like, I think they're amazing.
23:40And I like that this, I mean, is in the best way possible.
23:44They remind me of a really, like, cooler, like, high fashion aqua or, like, Venga Boys.
23:50And I mean that in the most complimentary way possible, because I grew up loving that kind of music.
23:55They're just unapologetically, like, themselves.
23:58Like, they're chaos.
23:59They're fun to watch.
24:01The music's really cool.
24:02So when they sent me the track and asked if I wanted to be on it, I was like, absolutely.
24:07And then we got in the studio together.
24:08And that Tina line was just sort of improvised.
24:12It was me.
24:13Me and Grace.
24:14I got the mic together, just, like, literally gossiping.
24:17And it just sort of organically came out.
24:19I think they obviously brought me on to it as, like, the pop girly.
24:22And I don't think they knew me that well.
24:24I think they didn't know that.
24:26I do, I'm quite introverted, but I can be a bit of a cunt.
24:29And so I think when I said that line, it surprised them.
24:33And it got, like, a big reaction in the room.
24:35And then they're like, oh, it has to be in the song.
24:37And I had a lot of fun, like, shooting the video with them.
24:40Their energy is, like, very infectious.
24:43So, yeah.
24:44This is a related question, but in a much more serious way.
24:47At your live shows, you're known for speaking out, fuck reform, fuck transphobia, fuck J.K. Rowling.
24:54Is this something you think about in advance, or can it be quite impulsive?
24:58Because I'm guessing that every time you say something like that, you know you're going to get a load of trolls on you straight away.
25:02I think it's a bit of both, really.
25:03I think I've always been quite outspoken.
25:07Maybe now as a solo artist, I feel a bit more liberated to, like, say exactly how I feel.
25:13You know, I'm not just, I'm responsible just for myself now and not other people.
25:17So, I feel like, I think especially with the kind of fan base that I have, it's important to show, especially my younger audience and younger fans,
25:27that you shouldn't be afraid to speak out about something you believe in.
25:31And, like, with Mighty Hoopla, the chant then is, like, you know, I do see, obviously, Pride is a protest.
25:36And for me, that was my version of doing that.
25:40But I think sometimes I do, I have a moment before stage, I'm like, am I going to do it?
25:43Am I going to do it?
25:45And then, you know, I just think, oh, fuck it.
25:48Do you know what I mean?
25:49I think, you know, I'm not always going to get it right, but I also think it's important for me to stand up for what I believe in.
25:56And if that means, you know, there are being consequences to that, then so be it.
26:02And I think, like, with the transphobia stuff, I think it was interesting for me to just get a teeny taste of what that community has to face every single day.
26:12You know, just because I spoke out about it on a public stage, I obviously got an influx of hatred and abuse.
26:19And I can handle that because I'm kind of used to that to a degree.
26:25But it was so personal and awful.
26:29And like I say, that was just a taste of what the trans community have to face every day online and in real life.
26:36And so that that in itself made me happy that I did it.
26:42Yeah.
26:42It proves that it kind of hit the spot in a awful way.
26:44Yeah.
26:45Yeah.
26:46Yeah.
26:46And I think, you know, same with Clastonbury.
26:49I'm aware that people are going to disagree or have something to say.
26:53You know, I saw a lot of, I guess, people that don't really know me be like, oh, well, the set was good or her music was all right until she made it political.
27:00And it's like, well, you don't know me then because I've always been that girl.
27:03Do you know what I mean?
27:04Even in Little Mix, I've always spoke up about politics.
27:06I've always said, I think something's not right.
27:09And I've always encouraged my fan base to, you know, not even necessarily agree with me, but be aware of what's going on in the world.
27:17So, you know, if you don't like it, don't listen to me.
27:22Listen to something else.
27:23Yeah.
27:24At what point in your career did you kind of realise that you were a role model?
27:28I mean, I think when you were talking about Sugar Babes earlier, it's clear you were a fan of them.
27:32Yeah.
27:33But obviously, I think pop fans growing up, we kind of look at girl bands almost as like superheroes.
27:39Yeah.
27:39That's what Spice Girls were like for me.
27:41But Little Mix would have been there for so many people.
27:43Is that something you can get your head around?
27:45No.
27:45I find the term role model quite scary because I think it puts you on a pedestal that everyone's gagging to kick you off.
27:53You know, I don't sit down and go, I am a role model.
27:56Do you know what I mean?
27:56If someone wants to bestow me that title, then by all means do.
28:01But don't expect me to, you know, always get it right.
28:04I am human, especially with Little Mix.
28:06I guess we were influential for a lot of, especially young women, because we really did stand for like sisterhood and embracing who you are and femininity.
28:15And everything.
28:16So I understand why people said that.
28:20And I am really proud of the fact that we maybe influenced a lot of girls in a positive way.
28:26And yeah, like growing up, I was obsessed with girl bands.
28:31And I think girl bands are really special because they do embody just like girl power and friendship and sticking together.
28:41And I think girl bands are like essential in pop music.
28:44So yeah, but I think on my own, I don't know if people want to, if people think I'm a role model, that's really lovely.
28:52I think what I'll always try to do is just be myself and also own up when I do get it wrong.
28:56I'm happy to, you know, hold myself accountable for things, whether that's like with allyship or, you know, educating myself properly.
29:06But I'm not sure if I want to be a role model or something else.
29:11What can we expect from your first headline tour?
29:13You've been doing festivals, obviously, all summer, but at your own show, you've got a bit more time, probably a bit more control over everything.
29:20Yeah, I'm really excited for my own tour.
29:22I think it's been cool with the festival run to, I mean, for me, it was my first time performing on my own.
29:28Like my first solo performance was Big Weekend, I think.
29:31It was like a headline slog.
29:33Oh my God, I was so nervous.
29:35But I'm kind of grateful to just be thrown in the deep end.
29:38I feel like I thrive when that happens.
29:41Like with the Brit Awards, it was like, okay, how can I make this as difficult for myself as possible?
29:45Sometimes I feel like the more pressure I put on myself, the more I excel.
29:49I don't know if that's healthy, but it's just my vibe.
29:52I think the joy of festivals is you get to surprise people.
29:56You get to convert people into fans.
29:58You know, you get people walking past that aren't really that bothered and they watch it.
30:01Oh God, she's quite good, actually.
30:03So I enjoyed seeing a lot of that and I think it was good training for like my own tour.
30:08But I think that that Showbiz Baby tour will be very theatrical.
30:14You know, I'm doing smaller venues, which I'm actually really excited about.
30:18I'm excited to go from, you know, all of the bells and whistles of Little Mix and like big arena stages and stuff
30:24to have a more like of an intimate show again and like going back to like the root of what I loved about music.
30:30And I think I'm going to make that budget work to its final penny.
30:37I think I really thrive with that as well.
30:40I get really excited about like being on a smaller stage but showing everyone that there's so much you can do with that.
30:47That doesn't involve just like standing with a mic stand.
30:49You know what I mean?
30:50I'll still give it my all and I'll do everything I can to put on a big show.
30:55I'll just ask a couple more questions.
30:56First is, obviously I'm that Showbiz Baby.
30:58Of everyone you've met who most personified Showbiz?
31:03I guess you've met a lot of people.
31:05Yes.
31:06First one's Lady Gaga because I met her at the start of my career when I was 18.
31:12And she performed like on the X-Factor on one of the live shows and we met her backstage.
31:17And you know when someone just has that like superstar aura about them?
31:22She smelled really good and we said we were big fans and she just like reached into her hair and went,
31:28Here's the hairpin.
31:30And she gave me one of her hair grips out of her head.
31:34That was her gift.
31:35Wow.
31:35And obviously no one hair grips have lost it many moons ago.
31:41But that was quite an iconic moment and that's when I was like,
31:45Okay, that's what you have to strive to be, that level of iconic.
31:50Regal.
31:51Yes, Regal with it.
31:52The second person is Diana Ross.
31:55Because she's my adult, but I think she embodies Showbiz.
31:58She's the OG like Showbiz into pop music queen.
32:02She changed the game for like Women of Colour, I think, transitioning into pop music.
32:09And when I met her, again, just that aura, that like super Showbiz aura.
32:14And even now, you know, she's in her 70s, I believe.
32:18And she'll get on that stage and she'll wear the big ass hair and the feather boys and the sequin gowns.
32:24It's all very Showbiz.
32:26So I'm hugely inspired by that.
32:28And then the third person is David Lashpell, who I met last year.
32:33I did a music video with him.
32:35And I think David is Showbiz personified.
32:40You know, he comes from an era where it's like, the budget was endless.
32:44He's done some iconic videos like Britney's Every Time video.
32:48And Christine Aguilera, like he's worked with all of these amazing artists.
32:53And he knows exactly what he wants.
32:55And he's got that kind of old school Showbiz energy and attitude.
32:59But I really love it.
33:01And I think we really bounce off each other because for me, the more like bigger the character, the better for me.
33:07And when we worked together, he was so enthusiastic and loud.
33:14And when I went to his studio, he had like a mood board of like chaired images.
33:19And he was like blasting into my dreams.
33:20And I walked into the room and I was like, oh, my God.
33:23It felt very Showbiz.
33:25And there was a moment like on the fantasy video shoot where he like called me into this room and literally put me on a pedestal.
33:32They put a pedestal in the middle of the room.
33:35They made me stand on it.
33:37And then him and his team like picked me apart.
33:39They picked apart like what I was wearing.
33:41And they were nipping me and like just in this dress.
33:45And David was just sat there like looking like, you know, as the sort of leader of the pack.
33:50And I remember that moment being like this.
33:52This is literally what I've always dreamed of.
33:54This is what I've dreamed of.
33:55David LaChapelle telling me about myself and making me the best version of myself.
34:00And if you watch the fantasy video shoot, you'll never get light and like it.
34:06Like he that's what I mean by Showbiz.
34:08He's just he gets it like he makes every star look the best they possibly can.
34:14And it was just so fab the shoot day.
34:15Like the choreographer that he brought on set, like all the team he'd worked with for years.
34:19And the choreographer was very like five, six, seven, eight, you know, it was like all social, busy.
34:25And I absolutely loved it.
34:27The last question.
34:28If any Little Mix, Deep Car or like less prominent single could pop off on TikTok and become like a belated hit, which one would you like it to be?
34:35That's been released.
34:36Yeah, maybe it wasn't even a single, but nowadays it feels like any song can pop off on TikTok.
34:40I know, it's so true.
34:41So anything off the LM5 album, to be honest, I think is worthy of that.
34:45Wasabi did have its moment.
34:47That's my favourite.
34:48It kind of did pop off on TikTok.
34:50There's a song I wrote years ago called Woman's World, which was on the LM5 album.
34:55And just because that's about like the struggle for women, I'd love to see something like that pop off.
35:01You know when people do like sort of politically charged or serious videos with like a song that like goes viral because of that.
35:10I love the idea of that.
35:12And then I think just for like old time's sake, I'd love like Wings to pop off again.
35:16That was so special always because it was our first single.
35:19Yeah.
35:19Like it'll always like have a place in my heart.
35:23And I think if that did the rounds again, I think I'd feel really good about it.
35:29It needs to get a film sync, like Wedding the Dance Ball maybe.
35:31Yeah, yeah.
35:33And I think that's the beauty of TikTok now and with film, like you just never know what song years later is going to pop off again.
35:41Like could Sophie Ellis Baxter ever have predicted?
35:44That song is like humongous.
35:46It was originally anyways, but I love the idea of like a song getting a new release alive, like Kate Bush with Running Up That Hill, like crazy.
35:54I was in Norway a few months ago at this bar and like these like 18 year olds were doing karaoke to Murder in the Dance Ball.
36:01This is wild.
36:02That's what I mean.
36:02Like and I love that for Little Mix.
36:04I'd love for our music to like come back around and I'd love for it to be the reference in new artists writing rooms.
36:11You're setting them a challenge now.
36:12Yeah.
36:13But yeah, thank you so much for your time.
36:14It's been a pleasure.
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