Tokyo 2025 preview: Josh Kerr and the art of coping with a championships | Athletics Weekly Podcast

Name: Tokyo 2025 preview: Josh Kerr and the art of coping with a championships | Athletics Weekly Podcast
Uploaded: 2025-09-09T11:56:32+00:00
Duration: 48 min 28 s
Channel: Athletics Weekly

00:00Hello, my name is Ewan Crumley and welcome to the Athletics Weekly podcast. In each show

00:13we bring you everything you need to know from the world of run, jump and throw, analysing

00:17the biggest stories and speaking to key names from the sport. There's only one place to

00:22start for this episode. The World Athletics Championships in Tokyo are just a few days

00:27away and we at AWU are packing our bags as we prepare to fly out for what promises to

00:32be another brilliant championships. The 116 page Tokyo preview issue of AWU is out now

00:39as well and is packed with everything you need to know about this global showpiece from the

00:44potential medal contenders through to the view from Japan and interviews with some of the

00:48biggest athletes. Later in this episode we'll hear from reigning men's 1500 metre champion

00:55Josh Kerr. But first let's set the scene for what lies ahead and to do that I am joined

01:00by AWU managing director and Olympic medalist Wendy Sly as well as AWU head of digital Jason

01:06Henderson. Welcome to you both. Hello Ewan. Hello. So let's set the scene. It feels like

01:15this championships has been a long time coming. It feels like the start of the outdoor season

01:20is in the dim and distant past. How are you both sort of looking forward to it? You know

01:29are the sort of the excitement starting to build a bit? It's funny I was just thinking back you know

01:34I ran in the very first of these championships back in 1983 and I think everybody looked forward

01:42to it because it was purely track and field on a global scale and since then the championships have

01:49gone from every four years to every two and I think the whole track and field community looks

01:57forward to it because the spotlight is on athletics and only athletics. There aren't loads of other

02:04sports going on in the background as there are at the Olympics. But I think as time's moved on and as

02:12athletics has evolved so the governing body of the sport world athletics have chosen to make it

02:20the end of the season for the world championships so that it's the kind of focus once everybody's done

02:27doing everything else. And it's going to be very very interesting to see how athletes perform in these

02:35next couple of weeks. Some have shown us their form early in the season and maybe had a couple of

02:42problems disappeared off and are re-emerging again. Others like Jakob Ingebrigtsen haven't shown us

02:49anything at all yet because sadly he's been injured and and Keith Hodgkinson our own home favorite

02:55has only had a couple of races. So I think there's lots of intrigue. I think there's intrigue around

03:03the fact that it's track and field focused which is fabulous. There's intrigue around the fact that

03:08it's at the end of a very long year which included indoor championships as well and it's intriguing

03:15because some of the biggest stars of the sport have actually encountered a few issues during the

03:21build up to these championships. So there's an awful lot to look forward to I think. Yeah and Jason

03:27Wendy makes an interesting point there in that the the last time the these championships were in Tokyo in

03:331991 it was they were still every four years but it was after 91 that the world champs became every

03:40every two years which athletes were really opposed to at the time. We've seen old issues of AW as well

03:47which are full of athlete comment about how it's going to devalue championships and all that sort of

03:53thing but they now feel like they're a crucial part of the of the calendar given that the sport needs

04:00to keep itself in the in the spotlight. I mean how how do you view the sort of the the development of

04:05these championships down the years? Well I mean going back to the start of the championships in 83 I mean

04:12Wendy was was competing there she was a she was a medal contender at those championships in in in two

04:18events. I was a teenage athletics fan at the time lapping it up and the first championships as Wendy

04:26all all really remember was a massive success I mean it was the first one nobody quite knew how it was

04:31going to go but it was it was just great on virtually every event was was just superb and then over the

04:37years it just you know it it fails to disappoint really it's just always good every time every

04:43time it takes place and I think the decision to make it a biennial event as opposed to every four

04:50years is is just because it was it was working you know people wanted more of it so you know why have

04:56it every four years when it's so good let's have it let's have it every two years and as you say you

05:00and I think initially some people were a bit worried that it might it might kind of dilute the importance of

05:05the events because it would just happen to too regularly but I don't know I don't really think

05:10that's that's happened and in fact now I think most most people in the sports kind of yearn for a big

05:17event every year it seems a bit strange these days if there's a year that goes by which is a kind of

05:22fallow year that doesn't have a a global championship of any kind think I think uh I think the sport demands a

05:29big global event every year and uh yeah I'm sure Tokyo in a few days time will live up to the

05:36expectations as as these world championships always do yeah the other thing about 83 actually thinking

05:42back it it was actually a bit of a there was a bit of a change in the broadcast of those championships

05:49um they did a lot more interviews with the athletes which up until that point athletics on tv was very much

05:56um the commentators in the stadium the cameras looking at the track and you never really got to

06:03know the people or the athletes that were performing um but I think it was channel four at the time they

06:10they they took the athletes sort of to the microphone and and started to interview um people before and after

06:19their events and um I'm pretty certain that was the first time that that really happened so not

06:25only was it a breakthrough for athletics it was actually a breakthrough in how athletics was covered

06:32and how the general public perhaps got to know some of the personalities of the sport a little bit more

06:39yeah and that's where these championships are such a huge thing for the the sport as well this is the

06:45the chance to get into people's living rooms onto their smartphones you know this is the they might

06:51have coverage that's going to be generated over the coming days will be be massive and and as jason

06:57mentioned wendy since uh since covert obviously we've had that global championships every single year

07:04since the the tokyo uh olympics was rescheduled to to 2021 and so we're we're getting used to these global

07:12championships coming thick and fast but it's obviously great to see tokyo getting its chance

07:19again after those olympics which i think everyone has agreed was a very strange sort of experience

07:25despite how brilliant some of the athletics was i know it's interesting isn't it that you look back

07:30to that and it feels such a long time ago i think because we've made up as a sport we've made up for

07:37lost time so there's been um as you say there's been a global championships every year as as things

07:43have kind of caught up to the normal schedule and i think what's interesting and going back to jason's

07:49point you know is how the sports actually embraced it you know um how the athletes don't seem to have

07:57those off years anymore that they actually are able to come back and perform at the highest level

08:03year after year and yes you know as we've discussed before there are some people that inevitably will

08:10have a bit of time off because they're injured or um unwell or whatever it may be but um i think the

08:18caliber um of the sport overall doesn't seem to be affected in fact if anything it's um it's improving

08:26and um i think the way the sport has stepped up um to cope with the championships every year has been

08:34been fantastic yeah i mean and we can see over the next few days we can see potential points in the

08:41schedule which are going to be super exciting or the ones to to look out for um jason we'll start with

08:47you on this one who if someone was to to ask you say they perhaps didn't have an interest in

08:53athletics yet but where would you be pointing them in terms of uh the best place or best event to um

09:00to watch uh in these coming championships for a for a taster um one of my kids actually is about to go

09:07on a holiday through europe and she's she's a bit worried about how how how she'll be able to watch

09:12it and when and where and all that stuff because she's moving from one country to the other and i guess

09:17if i was giving her advice i i would i would instinctively say the women's 800 meters keely

09:22odginson georgia hunter bell i mean that's that's an obvious one to go to especially if you're british

09:27um the men's five the men's 1500 meters obviously that's that was the the marking event at the paris

09:33olympics last year and i don't think uh i don't think uh things will change too much this year i mean

09:38that's going to be fascinating with obviously the the the similar contenders but obviously some new uh

09:45some new faces as well that have come onto the scene uh this summer as well so i mean that's just two

09:51events for starters but you know where you could carry on talking for the next 20 30 minutes about

09:55all the various events i mean there's there's just so many yeah uh wendy how about you where's your

10:01attention going towards well i i started to scribble down a list um before we we started the podcast and

10:10um yeah it goes on i have to say i mean i'm i'm i'm with jason and i think i think it's going to be

10:18um a very high viewing audience for that women's 800 and wouldn't it be fabulous to see two bricks on

10:24the podium um and i think there's a a pretty decent chance of that you know georgia hunter bell's

10:31learning the event um and she's continuing continually running better and faster every time

10:38every time she runs an 800 um and keely of course has come back from injury in style um but that will

10:47be i think um probably the the biggest the biggest one to watch but as jason says you know the men's

10:541500 you've got nils la ross that um is top of his form and um yarad nagus not making the american team

11:02um i mean it's you know as i was saying earlier there's there's so much intrigue um but obviously

11:10as a middle distance runner myself i'm always going to be most most fascinated by um 8 15 5 10

11:21um are going to be the ones that i'm i'm going to stop whatever i'm doing because i'm only going there

11:27for the first uh five six days um i'm going to stop whatever i'm doing and i will um take some

11:34time aside i'm actually going to be at the finish line of the berlin marathon during the women's 800

11:39meter final but i don't think i'm going to be on my own in um hiding in a corner somewhere with my

11:45phone walking up women's 800 meters um well and the men's but um yeah i think the list goes on but that's

11:54what is so great about the 10 days that we we're looking forward to and i suspect for the fans of

12:03the sport there'll be a little bit of a morning period afterwards because you wake up every day

12:09thinking oh what's on today and what have i got to look forward to um but say how great how great to

12:15have a list that's taken up most of the page um on my notebook yeah absolutely and we'll come to the

12:23uh the men's 1500 meter final uh later on but while you you've brought it up let's let's have a

12:30chat about what keely's been able to do in this comeback jason she's obviously she's only raced

12:37twice this year but both times have been emphatic sort of messages of intent um one and sort of

12:46being blisteringly fast in the in the sunshine in silesia and then a very very soggy 800 that was still

12:53very very very rapid in the in the diamond league yeah what have you made of her comeback

12:59well obviously very impressive to come back from injuries and a long uh a long period of of inactivity

13:07when it comes to racing to just come into the summer season like that with a real bang i mean it's been

13:12very impressive um i mean her rivals in tokyo though i mean they they kind of know what they

13:18know what's coming they know what she's going to do i mean i think her tactics are fairly obvious now

13:23you know she might not go to the front straight away but at some stage she'll she'll edge to the

13:28front and then she'll just keep that tempo really high you know coming around that final bend just

13:32keep accelerating and then into the home straight surge even more but but probably from the front um i

13:39think she's made those tactics quite clear it's the way that she's running the diamond league meetings

13:43this summer um it's the way that she's she's running in most of her most of her better races

13:49um but can can the other runners stay with her that's the thing i mean she she's going at this

13:53this 154 tempo now and and uh of course the big question is whether she can get close to this

13:59this uh very long-standing world record of 153 28 i think from memory um you know she's only got

14:08another second or so before she she gets close to that will she do it in a championship i don't know

14:14but i mean you can guarantee it'll probably be quite a fast hard race and uh she'll be challenging

14:20all of her rivals including a training partner georgia to uh to try and keep up yeah and i was

14:26speaking for the uh the edition of the magazine that's uh of the aw magazine that's out now i was

14:31speaking to trevor painter who's the coach of both keely hodgkinson and georgia hunter bell

14:38um and he was saying he you know expects keely to be in kind of 153 shape um but whether or not she's

14:46able to do 153 completely by herself with no pacemakers he said is a is a very very different

14:52thing um but wendy you also made a a really interesting point about the differences between

14:58keely and georgia as athletes and that keely's much more of a power-based runner whereas georgia's

15:05much more of a sort of a floaty kind of athlete who will float her way around but she also finishes

15:12very very strongly and and that she's still learning the event to a degree i mean it's easy to forget

15:19you know she hasn't been back in the sport for for very long since she she took that break from it

15:24yeah and and and i think at times she's come off the track a little bit frustrated because she's

15:31got into the wrong place at the wrong time um and or gone through 400 a little bit too quickly for her

15:41ability um because she is very much more an 8 15 runner whereas keely as you say is more of a 4 8 runner

15:49and um can therefore tolerate going through 400 a little bit quicker than say georgia but georgia

15:58has as you say has the strength of um a slightly longer distance based athlete to come through very

16:07well in that last 150 i think with her it's going to be judging it to perfection really i think if she

16:15judges it to perfection goes through at the right speed and um doesn't get herself in the wrong place

16:22with 150 200 to go then i think she can pull back some ground on keely um and that's where i think

16:32she stands the best chance of of getting a medal um but as you say she's learning the event

16:39um the last race she ran was a personal best so she's obviously learning it well um and i think

16:48i think the the beauty of trevor's coaching is that he absolutely understands that they are very

16:54different athletes and so they can't run the same race so you know he's going to have to have very

16:59different discussions i suspect before the start of um the 800 um heats uh next thursday um

17:08um with each of the athletes not just how they qualify but but you know hopefully fingers

17:16crossed touch wood when they both make the final how they execute the best possible race for them

17:21both to come out with um with a medal which i'm sure they're both looking towards yeah and i guess the

17:28plus as well jason for for keely i mean she's she went from being a concern about whether she was going

17:34to make the start line at all to suddenly being a very very clear favorite for the the gold medal but

17:41she's had to deal with this you know last year and it was the same status with was paris she was

17:47expected to do it so it's there's one thing being expected to do it and then actually doing it and

17:53it's easy to forget as well that this would be her first world title if she was to win it

17:58yeah and i don't think we should be hanging a gold medal around her neck or you know before the

18:04championship begins so to speak um i mean audrey vero of switzerland has looked really good uh in

18:10recent weeks i know keely's beaten her this summer but but uh vero has improved and and run a run a

18:17pb since then and looks really strong i think she's had quite a similar kind of career trajectory to keely as

18:23well she was she was very good in the in the sort of youth and junior age groups and and she she you

18:28know she looks the real deal i think keely keely should be quite worried about vero maybe maybe not

18:34so much in the next few few days but certainly in the next one or two years she she's uh she looks

18:40really good and uh you know there's going to be other other good rivals as well deguma of ethiopia

18:46you know a few others as well obviously georgia hunter bell who who kind of sits back in these races but

18:51then sort of comes through with a bit of a sort of withering finish towards the end she drifts

18:55through um you know they're all going to be dangerous so you know keely's got keely's got some

19:00work to do she was a big favorite before the paris olympics last year and she she sealed it uh and i

19:05think i think it might be similar this time you know she she she's a favorite but she's she's got

19:09some work to do for sure the uh the the other athletes won't just hand it to her yeah yeah and well

19:17and another potential sort of interesting theme to this um this coming championships the potential

19:23emergence of series of young athletes a feature of this season has been uh this sort of emergence of

19:31you know a range of talent across you know different disciplines from the excitement around gout gout uh

19:37who's the australian sprinter that everybody can't wait to see live um through to you know athletes like

19:44franwell koich the the kenyan teenager who beat josh kerr at uh at the london diamond league and and

19:51jason you wrote uh a really good piece for athleticsweekly.com recently about sort of the nature of

19:58uh you know young teenage athletes you know being able to negotiate what is a very tricky stage between

20:06that being the the best junior and then joining the the senior ranks yeah we did an interview with

20:13seb ko as well um just a few days ago uh just just before he headed out to tokyo and he he was asked

20:20about cooper lutkin house the the american the 16 year old who ran 142 at the us championships and uh

20:28and um you know seb said that that one of the one of the most worrying statistics that that himself

20:36and his team often talk about uh are medalists from the world under 20 championships who who more

20:43often than not you know don't even make their national teams two or three years later you know

20:48they they get stuck in a in a in a rut uh they get injured they get ill you know they they lose form

20:55and whatever various reasons uh some even give up entirely and um yeah it is a big problem it's always

21:02nice to see the the real big teenage talents actually come through and and start to do it

21:08at senior level i mean we're seeing this now with innis fitzgerald she was she was a a phenomenal

21:13teenage talent you know two three years ago mouth-watering performances when she was 16 17 years

21:18old and now she's she's in the british team for the for the world championships at 5 000 meters and

21:24she's been running really well this summer i'm still only 19 but she she's just been running really

21:29well so it's nice to see these young athletes come through but i have to say that athletes like innis

21:33are generally in the minority you know lots of athletes who who run really well at the age of 15 16

21:39often start to struggle and fizzle away once they get into the late teenage years and and you know 20 and

21:47and beyond so so yeah there's lots of uh lots of young athletes like this as you say you and to keep

21:52an eye on in tokyo in the next next few days actually innis is quite an interesting one because

21:58um i spoke to her coach gavin pavy after brussels diamond league and and everyone was thinking well

22:04why is innis doing another 5 000 when you know she'd already um competed in in the junior championships um

22:12not that long before and he said i just want her to get used to running at this level um and i think that's

22:19probably the biggest challenge is um if you're someone like innis and you're winning your own

22:26age group fairly easily it's then acclimatizing yourself or customizing yourself to being in a

22:33race where you're not in front where you're um you're justling with other people for position

22:39you might be in a situation where a gap is created you've got to try and close it you know and i think um

22:45um just acclimatizing to a different type of racing when you're a very good junior is is part of the

22:55battle um you know you've got kids like gout gout who um came around a few races early season then

23:01went back to do his exams at school and you know that that's a pretty tough juggling act to sort of

23:08finish finish school and then um shoot up to the world championships in tokyo and run against the best

23:14sprinters in the world um so it's also managing the expectation of young people who've been so

23:22fabulously great at their own at their event in their own age group um and getting them used to

23:29the fact that they aren't going to be able to control the race perhaps the way they used to

23:34that they they are going to have to have a different mindset going in

23:38um and so when gav said that about about inis it made total sense really because you know the 5 000

23:45meters that she's going to have to run next week is going to be very different to the ones that

23:50she's been running in her own age group it's now time to hear from reigning men's 1500 meter champion

23:56josh kerr i spoke to him last month about his final preparations for tokyo and what goes into putting

24:02together a champion tips campaign uh yeah how are you um how's how's training and things going this

24:10this final prep for uh for tokyo yeah it's going very well thank you it's um you know we're you know

24:17just less than a month out from the final um of the world championship so a pretty tough training time

24:23pretty tough training block um just kind of doing the final touches i would say on the on the season

24:31um coming into it i think you know into this last camp of the year i was very

24:37just ready to to kind of dive dive into this you know for me last camp of the year is always pretty

24:43tough um you know i'm pretty strict on most things sleep um nutrition uh hydration everything so it's

24:50it's pretty hard from a training perspective but i'm really enjoying it um i'm in an awesome spot and

24:56you know absolutely no complaints over here and just excited to go out and try and try and

25:00retain that world title so yeah and how do you reflect on your your year so far because this has

25:05been obviously a very different sort of year for you and you've you've raced way more already this

25:10year than you would normally how how do you sort of reflect on that yeah i think um yeah it's a weird

25:17one just because you know with all the grand slam races um not having you know the times that i would

25:23normally kind of post up by this time of the time of the year it's it's interesting because you know you

25:28look at the fields i was able to beat over 1500 and you're like wow it's you know it's a really

25:32great effort but um there's not really that championship mentality from that side and then

25:38it's also not the fast time so it's just getting used to that really um i'm happy with it you know i had

25:43a pretty tough hit problem for like three months um and through the indoor season and you know we're able to

25:51navigate that well um and and come out kind of fighting a little bit in the in the latter grand

25:57slams and and i was able to post that a solid enough time in in london so i think there's a lot

26:02of work um left to be done in this season for me you know a lot more to show i think um i think i'm

26:09going to be coming into this world championships in the best shape of my life and and i want to be able

26:14to show that um from an all-around perspective versus you know i'm just ready to do a diamond

26:20league final kind of time trial i think i'm ready to just win a championships and uh and that's that's

26:26a really fun time um looking to the the 1500 just more generally this year it kind of almost feels like

26:34it couldn't be more different from this time last year it's like everybody's sort of chucked everything

26:40up in the air um it's it's clearly an event that just doesn't stand still yeah yeah yeah it's it i

26:48think we we got it spoken about a lot last year just because of you know you know rivalries in

26:55america versus you know europe and and all this stuff was going on and this year it's a bit more like

27:01we have fast times from from a lot of athletes and then we also have you know championship looking

27:06races from myself and cole in the yard and and you know um and it's just i don't know i think it's uh

27:13it's whoever's going to prep the best to be honest and uh whoever's going to be ready to ready to win

27:18and you know these championship races it's it's experience it's it's kind of have you been here

27:24before are you going to make mistakes are you feeling the pressure you know how did your camp go how

27:28fit are you and um and i feel pretty confident in that so yeah i'm very excited yeah because well as you

27:35alluded to there there's some some fresher faces on the on the scene kind of thing is do you remember

27:42how much of a difference you felt that first time going up into world championship level into sort

27:48of global championship level and and what that difference feels like yeah i mean everyone deals

27:54with it completely differently i think it depends on kind of how you were as a junior and and your

27:59experience if you did the NCAA or if you came through you know european under 23s under 20s and stuff

28:04like that but um you know for me london 2017 was you know what's that eight years ago now

28:13very eye-opening experience and it's almost it's less about i i believe for for younger athletes it's

28:19less about fitness and more about availability of having success like being excited to be there

28:24and just going out and really sending it and you know i think that was something that you know i had

28:29great fitness that day i got knocked down the first round but i looked left and right and i was like there's

28:33about seven medals eight medals here um and i'm i got in you know the qualifying time by 0.01 i ran

28:41through 35.99 in college and i was gonna say is that when the sort of the you know the maybe the

28:47cream starts rising to the top or the contenders really start to to show themselves when the when

28:53the action first gets underway yeah we're also going to be dealing with you know 9 a.m first round and 10 p.m

28:59and second and and final you know i i struggled with that in in the olympics in 21 you know i

29:06hadn't prepped for it properly and you know a morning race and then turning into an evening race with

29:12you know for us in the us it's 15 hour time difference it's just you know you got to get

29:17your circadian rhythm down you got to make sure that you're getting there in enough days you got to

29:21you know you got to go through your processes to be able to race in the morning and at night and

29:27and um these are the small things that we're looking at and to make sure that we're not

29:32you know overlooking anything you know i don't look overlook any rounds you know i have my

29:35uh my plan for each round and uh we work on that practice um you know a couple times a week and

29:42and uh yeah if you if you're not if you're not prepped and you're just kind of coming in without a plan

29:47with him in aw magazine and on athletics weekly.com and wendy to go on from the the point you were

29:54making there before um the the interview with with josh and and he sort of elaborates on it uh a bit as

30:01well is just how much goes in to a championships uh campaign and putting that together and how

30:11important a factor that experience is or having experience of how you do that is i mean that he

30:18is an athlete who's well known for for really going into detail whether that's the nutrition side of

30:24things his sleep patterns his you know physio physical preparation all that sort of stuff but he

30:30was always also talking about you know the the level of detail even things like the the logistics of

30:37of coping with a time difference or the fact that that this year at the the world championships in

30:43tokyo the warm-up track is going to be a 15-minute drive away from the stadium there's all these things

30:48that you perhaps wouldn't come to mind to uh you know normally but can be an important factor in and how

30:56well you ultimately perform

31:02it's interesting actually because i was having a conversation this morning about about

31:06about absolutely that and that was the bit about a championship that i used to love

31:13was the the build-up the thinking everything through the making notes about um where you needed

31:20to be what bus you needed to get where when you needed to get from one place to another call-up time

31:25you know all those details um are the things that occupy your mind in the build-up to a championship

31:32linked obviously with your your training and and how you um gradually wind down um

31:40towards your your heats um i remember in 84 the not quite as far away as in tokyo but the warm-up track

31:49was quite a long way from the stadium so you effectively had to do two warm-ups um and of course it was

31:55boiling hot in la as it will be in in tokyo so not only did you have to keep you have to do two warm-ups

32:02but you also had to hide hydrate adequately um fuel adequately um so you're you're eating you're warming

32:12up everything just had to be differently timed to make sure that you didn't step on the start line

32:17absolutely exhausted and dehydrated um but you stepped on the start line um adequately warmed up

32:25um and ready ready to race but knowing you had to get on a bus from the warm-up area to the stadium

32:32which is what the athletes will have to do in tokyo although i think it's quite a long way actually in

32:37tokyo so the coping with that will be critical um not overdoing the warm-up um yeah i i think those

32:47in a way i think personality the personality of an athlete a world-class athlete i think fits all of

32:56that thinking through because a lot of training and even more so these days as you as you say um

33:04is down to the smallest detail um you know getting those last sessions right making sure that um

33:11um you're you're in the best shape you possibly need to be or can be um for the start of those first

33:18rounds but then once you get to the rounds you've got to make sure you qualify in the most efficient

33:24way possible too so no one cares who wins the heat so even though your your psyche says i want to win

33:34this because it's a race and that's what i'm supposed to do if you only need to finish third

33:39finish third you know if you only need to finish fifth finish fifth because it doesn't matter you

33:44know what matters is getting through the rounds and um stepping onto the start line as a world

33:49championship finalist which um every athlete um certainly in the british team is is going to be

33:58wanting wanting wanting to do is to make that final uh line up whether it be track or field um so i i i

34:07think most of the athletes will enjoy that process and also in a funny sort of a way it gives you

34:12something to do because um i know there are lots more distractions now with social media and so on but

34:19they're not necessarily positive ones so you know finding something that you can control um which is

34:26how you get yourself best prepared to be on a uh you know be on the start line for a world

34:32championship it all comes down to just trying to make life as easy as possible for yourself when

34:38you've got a a difficult job to do i i guess and and jason josh is obviously going to be a a key figure

34:47again in the the men's 1500 um it's been a very very different build-up to this year's 1500

34:55the the the major championships though compared to last year obviously the big feature of last year

35:00was the was the verbal sparring between between him and jacob bingo brigston and but as we we

35:07mentioned earlier jacob hasn't been able to race outside at all this year because of a recurrence of an

35:13achilles um problem um i was on a media call with him uh the other day where he was saying he's very

35:21much back in training seeing progress every day um but he's in a race against the clock as he put it

35:27um to be on the start line um so it'd be fascinating to see what kind of shape he's going to be in you

35:34know if and when he gets there because he's not going to to turn up without thinking he has a chance

35:41no i think jacob has turned into a bit of a youtuber this year he's been posting lots of youtube

35:46videos of videos of his training um and the the latest one i think appeared in the last 24 hours

35:51or so he he posted a session of 20 uh times 400 meters in in 64 seconds with a i think it was a 40

35:59second recovery um not flat out you know this was this was for him kind of cruising pace and um yeah i

36:07think i think lots of fans and i'm sure a few of his rivals will be watching videos like that trying to

36:12trying to get a few clues as to how good he looks and what kind of shape he's in um you know he's

36:18coming into the championships cold you know we've got no idea really how how good or bad or average

36:24is he's going to be but i mean he he wouldn't he wouldn't compete surely unless he thinks he's got a

36:30got a really good chance of winning um so yeah but it certainly adds a different dynamic to uh to that

36:36events uh coming into the championships the the fact that we've got got a jacob ingebritsen who

36:41who um he literally hasn't competed all summer it's going to make it really interesting yeah he's

36:47he's not never short on on confidence but um you know wendy how much of is a factor that he hasn't

36:54raced at all how difficult a trick is that going to be to pull off given that he doesn't have i guess

37:01any sort of racing rhythm or he hasn't been in a sort of the cut and and thrust of competition since

37:06well since a very early spring with the world indoors

37:15i guess the one thing you could say is you know he's a very experienced competitor and i'm and i'm

37:20i'm sure within his uh training setup he's been able to do time trials um obviously a lot of it on his

37:29own but um i'm sure he's got uh training partners that can can drag him through a couple of laps on a

37:35on a time trial to give him an idea of where he's at but i guess he's lucky in that he can

37:41use the rounds as stepping stones um i guess it's just for us as spectators it's just going to be

37:50interesting to see how he comes into these championships um as jason alluded to i think

37:57he's been relatively quiet compared to other years when you know when he's been in good form and

38:04therefore almost has a a platform from which to um speak whereas this year obviously he hasn't um

38:13but i think i think having rounds will will help um and he certainly won't be the first one that's

38:18gone into a championship with very little racing under their belt and use the rounds as as sharpeners

38:24um you know i think keely's only had the two races but again she'll have the rounds um to kind of work

38:33herself into the next stage of fitness and um the sort of championship racing mode um the good thing

38:41as i say is that he is extremely experienced um he's been an athlete at this level for a number of

38:48years now even though he's still very young um so hopefully the the kind of um memory bank of

38:56championship performances um will come back and and and help him as he as he kind of progresses

39:03the men's 1500 jason i mean they'll be featuring a number of familiar faces but there'll be a few

39:11newer fresher faces on the on the start line as well um now nils laros has obviously he has

39:17been at a few championships uh in his very short career so far but this time feels different he's been

39:25very very impressive this year and looks like he might well be the one to beat

39:29yeah it's quite weird to think that i think it was last november i went to the cardiff cross

39:37challenge meeting and laros was was there and i can't remember where he finished he's about ninth

39:42or twelfth or something he was well behind uh just just what wasn't really at the races that day and

39:48yet now he's uh i mean a lot of people are calling him the favorite for the men's 1500 meters after his

39:54recent diamond league performances um and quite rightly i mean he's running at 330 or sub 330 pace

40:01and and then able to unleash these really strong kick finishes in in the last 100 150 meters um

40:09he does look the real deal i think people people struggle to to beat him um in tokyo he does seem to

40:16be the favorite in my in my view uh but as you suggest you and there are a lot of other other contenders

40:22you know josh kerr is is going to be really hard to beat i mean he knows how to peak for these

40:28championships um i love the fact that he buries himself away in in what he calls these ufc style

40:35training camps where he he tightens up the diet and you know everything just gets a lot more serious

40:40during the final few weeks before the championship so you know he's going to be tough to beat um and then

40:46the the young kenyan lad koech who won at the london diamond league uh another teenager another

40:52young athlete um he was beaten by laros recently but london diamond league he looks superb he beat

40:58josh kerr there um then we can't can't forget cole hocker either the olympic champion um but you know

41:06other athletes might get in the mix i mean it's it's uh we we've seen surprises before in this event and

41:12and uh yeah it's just going to be really really really interesting and going back to the start of

41:17our podcast where we we talked about the the key events to watch i mean this is it's going to be

41:21going to be the main one really isn't it absolutely yeah

41:28and there's also so much jostling in those races too i mean you it puts you on the edge of your seat

41:34doesn't it because you you know inevitably they start tend to start off quite slowly and there's a

41:40a lot of pushing and shoving and your your heart's in your mouth a lot of the time because you think

41:44oh no please someone don't fall over and and ruin it you know um so yeah i think that the women tend

41:52to go out a bit bit harder at the 1500 but the men tend to do the opposite it feels you know and um

41:59and i think running that way does leave the championships a little bit more hard a bit harder to

42:08call you know if you were looking at a diamond league with a pacemaker um then you it's it it

42:16it's more of a in some ways uh a true run race in that you know they're having to run hard and fast

42:22because the pacemaker's taking them out that way but in a championship it can quite often come up to

42:28come down to the last 200 meters and who's in the right place at the right time and feeling the best

42:33so i think of all the events probably the men's 1500 as as the olympics last year proved you know

42:40it's just a hard one um to call especially when there are a few athletes that have come through

42:47this year like la ross um and and but you've still got you know the experience brain racing brains of

42:54josh kerr um and and of course um uh jake brightman who is who's another one who suffered with injury

43:04but it's coming into form at the right time so yeah of all the races it's probably going to be

43:09the toughest one for all of us to pick the one two three

43:12that cardiff race last november um beaten by britain's zach mohammed and and uh and a number of

43:18number of well you actually zach was the only brit to beat him that day uh the rest of the runners were

43:23were um east african moroccan irish etc but yeah he was back in back in 10th place um well over half

43:30a minute behind the win behind the winner yeah and um we write this very often wendy and talk about it

43:37uh quite a lot about the difference between a championships and saying normal race or more

43:44regular races on the circuit whether that's diamond leagues or or what have you can can you describe

43:50how different a championships is or or what's so different about it

44:00certainly mindset as an athlete um and i think not just um the mindset of a championships i feel that i

44:10felt back when i was learning certainly that um my brain was in a different place for a championship

44:16i think you understand that it matters that much more than uh running a diamond league you know you

44:24can pick yourself up after a bit of you know a regular race on the continent uh and if it doesn't

44:30go according to plan you can shake yourself down um um ponder on what happened and get another race in

44:38the next week and and try and rectify whatever went wrong with a championship you've got no chance to do

44:44that you know you you have to be um mentally and physically in absolutely the right place and i

44:51think to go back on some of the points we were making earlier you know your your brain needs to

44:57be completely switched on you you need to be able to cover any moves you need to for the sprinters you need

45:03to execute um your race in the most perfect fashion um and you can't shake yourself down and go back and do it again

45:12because um you have to wait another year or two um so uh you know i think that's the biggest difference

45:20and i i don't know whether i consciously thought that as an athlete but certainly subconsciously it was

45:26there um and every athlete has to raise their game for a championship and i i think the majority do and

45:33that's what will make the the time in tokyo so interesting um every athlete going on to that

45:42stage will be thinking this is my one chance either to um make the final eight for the first time if

45:50you're perhaps a newcomer to championship level competing or or to get that elusive gold medal so um

45:59um yeah i i would say probably mentally more than physically the demands of a championship are are

46:07quite um exacting and i think um the interesting part about having these championships at the end of

46:16the year is whereas there was always a slightly muddled turnout for the events after a championship had

46:25taken place and by muddled i mean there were those that maybe hadn't had the best championships or come

46:32off on a high and maintained that high and there were others there are others that would come off a

46:38championship um week or so and be so exhausted by the whole thing that even though they were in the

46:46in the best shape of their lives they just couldn't quite pull that same kind of quality

46:51racing out of the bag um i know i came back from the olympics in 84 and i i ran at crystal palace and

46:59and won the mile there um and i think i was still on the high of getting a medal in in la but then i went

47:07off to zurich and ran a 3000 and i ran so horribly badly i think because i think i'd exhausted all that

47:15mental energy through the championships and then running at my home track or competing at my home

47:23track so i think um we won't have that this year because everyone's gonna get on the plane from

47:30tokyo and go off and have their break so yeah there's a sort of an element of this is it really

47:37so thank you wendy and jason for joining me uh we'll be back soon for more from the athletics weekly

47:42podcast uh to reflect on these world championships uh in the meantime don't forget that our bumper

47:49tokyo preview issue of aw is out now available via athleticsweekly.com or selected retailers

47:56athletics weekly is also the best place to keep up to date with all of the goings-on from tokyo too

48:02so make sure you keep an eye on our social media channels and athleticsweekly.com please like and

48:08subscribe to the aw podcast on your usual podcast platform as well thanks and see you next time

Tokyo 2025 preview: Josh Kerr and the art of coping with a championships | Athletics Weekly Podcast

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