- 5 days ago
This special bonus episode of the Athletics Weekly podcast features an exclusive interview with a very special guest – the 2000 Olympic 400m champion Cathy Freeman.
It’s now 25 years since “Magic Monday” unfolded at Stadium Australia, and the standout performance that came in that women’s 400m final. Freeman had the weight of a nation’s expectations on her shoulders but she handled the pressure to win the gold medal.
She speaks to Euan Crumley about the build-up to that moment, her role at the Games’ opening ceremony, effectively becoming the symbol of reconciliation in Australia and what it felt like to be at the centre of a moment that brought a nation to a standstill.
Find out how you can become an AW subscriber by visiting: athleticsweekly.com/subscribe
It’s now 25 years since “Magic Monday” unfolded at Stadium Australia, and the standout performance that came in that women’s 400m final. Freeman had the weight of a nation’s expectations on her shoulders but she handled the pressure to win the gold medal.
She speaks to Euan Crumley about the build-up to that moment, her role at the Games’ opening ceremony, effectively becoming the symbol of reconciliation in Australia and what it felt like to be at the centre of a moment that brought a nation to a standstill.
Find out how you can become an AW subscriber by visiting: athleticsweekly.com/subscribe
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00:00Hello, my name is Ewan Crumley and welcome to a special bonus episode of the Athletics
00:12Weekly podcast featuring a very special guest, the former Olympic 400 metre champion Cathy
00:18Freeman. It's now 25 years since the Sydney Olympics of 2000 and one of the greatest nights
00:24of athletics the world has ever seen. Whilst London 2012 had Super Saturday, September
00:30the 25th 2000 quickly became known as Magic Monday when athletes such as Michael Johnson,
00:37Haile Gabri Selassie and Jonathan Edwards memorably struck gold. However, there's one performance
00:43from that night which still stands out above all even after all these years and there was
00:48one woman in particular that the capacity crowd of 112,000 people in Stadium Australia had
00:53come to see. Cathy Freeman's athletic talent had been clear from an early stage and she
00:59was just 16 when she became the first Indigenous Australian to win Commonwealth gold in the 4x100
01:05metre relay in 1990. Her big individual breakthrough came when she won Commonwealth 200 metre and
01:13400 metre gold in 1994 but one year previously it had been announced that Sydney would host
01:20the 2000 Olympics. She would become the face of those games and the path was set for a victory that would
01:26ultimately be about so much more than sport. After every one of her major victories, Freeman flew the
01:33Aboriginal flag. At first it was seen as a controversial move. Australia's chef de mission in 1994 even tried to stop
01:41her from doing it. But by the time she stood with the Olympic flame in her hand, about to light the
01:47cauldron at the opening ceremony, she had become the public symbol of reconciliation in her country.
01:53The process of improving relations between Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and non-indigenous
01:59Australians had long been on the agenda but had never been more prominent than in 2000. May of that year had seen the walk for
02:07reconciliation across Sydney Harbour Bridge, the largest political demonstration in Australia's history at the time.
02:14Before she had even run a step, Freeman's very presence at that opening ceremony was hugely symbolic.
02:20She might have prepared for the games in England under coach Peter Fortune and alongside fellow Olympic finalist Donna Fraser,
02:27but in the host city her image, her presence was everywhere. It's often forgotten that Freeman also competed in the 200 metres in Sydney,
02:36coming sixth, but it was over 400 metres, where the then reigning two-time world champion was a clear favourite for gold.
02:44Sydney was Freeman's third Olympics. Four years previously, in Atlanta, she had been beaten to silver by Marie-José Pérez,
02:50and the French two-time champion was not only seen as the biggest threat, but the foe that the Australian favourite was desperate to face once again.
02:58But the rematch was not to be. Claiming to have been threatened and harassed by the Australian media and public,
03:04whom she felt were trying to sabotage her chances, Pérez withdrew less than 48 hours before the opening qualifying heat, fleeing the country.
03:13That only heightened the expectation levels on the home favourite, but dressed in a distinctive, hooded, full-body speed suit,
03:20Freeman rose to the occasion, keeping her head while all around her in the stands, others were losing theirs.
03:26As a blizzard of camera flashbulbs followed her every step, she came off the final bend, shoulder-to-shoulder with Jamaica's Lorraine Graham and Britain's Catherine Mary.
03:36However, halfway down the home straight, she surged away to hit the line first in 49.11 seconds.
03:43When Freeman celebrated with the Australian and Aboriginal flags on her lap of honour, no one was about to try and stop her this time.
03:50I spoke with her to reload those games and find out what it was like to be at the centre of a moment that still means so much to so many a quarter of a century later.
03:59Can you believe it's 25 years since Sydney and all of that?
04:10That's a big capital N-O double underline, exclamation mark, exclamation mark.
04:18Life is so different now, so I look back at footage.
04:23You know, I look back at footage and I just think, just like that, you know, the 25 years has just occurred.
04:32Yeah.
04:33What's the first thing you sort of think of when you start thinking back to that time?
04:38What's the first thing that sort of comes to mind?
04:40I think it was the glare as in, like, the theatre of it all, you know, the spectacle and the enormity of it all in terms of its viewership, what it meant to people and, you know, how people in their lives still connect with those games 25 years ago, just how strong the memory, well, to Australians here anyway.
05:05So the strength of that connection to those games is, it's just unflappable.
05:13People are just still so attached and so, so connected to that time 25 years ago.
05:23What do you think it was that sort of struck that, such a chord with everyone?
05:27I know there was so much going on at the time as well.
05:30Were you there at all?
05:33Were you there?
05:33I sadly wasn't, no, my colleague was, but no, I wasn't, yeah.
05:37What a, what a, yeah, it's, it's one of these, geez, the only words that come to mind was it was just such a magical, magical moment shared by the collective, by the amazing collective.
05:52And I don't know if folks felt it through the cameras or, you know, or through their radio, through their sound systems.
06:02But certainly those who were in the stadium that night, it was just this electrifying, profoundly magical, just uniting, amazing spectacle.
06:15You know, anyone who was in the stadium that night is still, you know, will often share with me how they still get shivers, you know, whenever we reflect.
06:25And I mean, obviously, from my point of view, it was a vastly different experience.
06:30But yeah, no, it just, it's just, it's one of these moments in time where there really was true unity that was playing out.
06:43And we're in, and it was so, it was beautiful, just so beautiful to be a part of and to see it in front of my very own eyes.
06:50Yeah, does it still give you shivers to think back about it?
06:54I think it's, you know what, it absolutely takes my breath away.
06:58Like, it absolutely makes me think about that time in the world, the time in the world before, you know, other world events occurred.
07:10And, you know, it was truly one of the greatest life events for me personally, personally and publicly.
07:20But certainly, you know, even three years previous, you know, there were moments where, you know, we were all as athletes looking towards the Sydney Olympic Games.
07:34You know, for some athletes, it may have been a longer period of time because we knew seven years out that Sydney had the Games.
07:41And so, and so certainly for me, it became quite a presence in my life, probably three years before, after I won my first world title in Athens.
07:53Yeah, yeah.
07:54And obviously, I think you've spoken before about Atlanta and the sort of the disappointment you had from that.
08:00How much did that sort of fuel you?
08:02And then how important was that first world title?
08:07Yeah, the first world title was really, was really important because I had some personal issues off the track that nearly caused me to, you know, take the season off.
08:22And then I somehow, well, I, with the support of my core team, pulled my socks up and kept on running.
08:31And I won my world title, my first world title.
08:34And it absolutely created this, this momentum and the trajectory towards Sydney Olympic Games.
08:43So the 1997 year was really, really important, given that I was, I just, I was just not in the right frame of mind at the end of the 1996 season.
08:56The silver medal was something that I absolutely knew I could win.
09:03And I didn't think beyond a silver medal.
09:05I, I gave Mari Jai Peric so much respect.
09:10And I felt that she was probably going to win the gold medal.
09:15And I, I certainly didn't see myself as a serious contender.
09:19And maybe I just, it was, I was too scared to go up against her and even too scared to even believe that I could do anything more than win a silver medal.
09:28You know, you look back at the order of events and it's all natural progression, you know.
09:34And in hindsight, everything is all changeable.
09:39You know, you sort of reflect and you sort of wonder, could you wonder about whether you could have or should have.
09:44At the end of the day, I only wanted one Olympic gold medal, which I got out of Sydney.
09:50Yeah. Yeah.
09:51And how conscious a decision was it for you to embrace everything about Sydney, about the attention you were going to receive, about that sort of spotlight?
10:01Oh, I certainly had a very respectful appreciation for, you know, other, for what was unfolding and what was playing out.
10:12But I certainly wasn't interested in completely ostracizing myself from it all because I wanted, you know, I wanted to psych it up somewhat.
10:23Yeah.
10:23But especially after the business was, after I got business done, like I was very businesslike, you know, my, it was very matter of fact about moving through the training and the preparation and the lead up and very businesslike.
10:40And in fact, when I did cross the line, you know, in that 400-meter final, I remember the thoughts in my mind were, oh, so this is what it feels like to be an Olympic champion.
10:50I was, it was, it was, I was all, it was all very, ah, you know, so this is what it feels like.
10:58But certainly it wasn't, you know, for me, you know, the enormity of it could have, it could have so easily overwhelmed me, I think, and the sentiment, the sentimental aspect of it, you know, to Australians, particularly to the First Nations community of Australia.
11:17And, you know, so I was just, just moving through really, you know, with a very simple approach to everything.
11:27And that was just to do what the coach, what we'd always done and treated each, each day as a new, as, as no different to the day before, to be really honest.
11:39You know, in terms of attitude, mindset, approach, philosophies, because we knew that the occasion would somehow pull out of me as a competitor, what I needed to release, I guess, in terms of the, you know, the competitive nature, you know, my competitiveness.
12:00Yeah, I was watching back the, the footage of the opening ceremony, and there were so many potential traps for you, whether that was the endless staircase, the surrounding yourself in fire, all of those things.
12:17What was that like to be, to be a part of?
12:20Well, I can talk quite freely about it all now.
12:26I, I, I, you know, it's interesting, Ewan, because I get quite, I feel a little bit unwell thinking, you know, thinking about that, those moments, because it was quite intense.
12:42There's, there's a lot of ceremony, there's a lot of, you know, like I said, the, the numbers, when you look at the viewership, like, and, you know, folks all around the world, and in Australia, and it was just, the numbers are just mind-boggling.
12:57And, and, you know, it's only now, 25 years on, I sit and I ponder those numbers, and I just, I just think, oh my goodness.
13:05It's just, and I think, because I was, I was so focused, and I kind of did compartmentalise, you know, lighting the opening ceremony, I kept it separate, you know, to the focus, to that part of my life, you know, on my mind, where it was just, I was there to race, and I was there to compete to the best of my ability.
13:28So, it was a, absolutely an amazing honour, but nobody can really prepare you, you know, for that kind of amazing responsibility.
13:42Yeah, it's interesting, folks often say, don't, did it put, make you feel like you're under any more pressure, or as if I wasn't under enough expectation already.
13:52But I think I was, I just had this silent, and competitors have this silent but deadly self-belief that kind of, I held sacred.
14:04And so, and I knew, if I, if I protect, I knew how to protect my, you know, that inner sanctity.
14:11And I think it also helped that, you know, my two training partners knew when I found out that I was lighting the cold, and they were very much across what lay ahead of me, and I think that helped me cope as well.
14:26But in, in rehearsal, the day of the opening ceremony, everything was perfect, but it just, but when it came to the actual night of the opening ceremony,
14:37I mean, it's now public knowledge that it broke down, the culture malfunctioned for four minutes.
14:44I thought it was far less than that, but gee whiz, I mean, the fact that it broke down was just, it's still hard to wrap my head around that it even occurred that it could have so easily have become a bit of a true disaster.
14:58And what was it like, it's, it was noticeable, it still comes through the video of the, the noise that the crowd makes when you first take the, the torch.
15:11Do you remember that moment and how much of an effect, was that the sort of the point that you went, wow, this is, this is going to be big?
15:17Oh, I, I knew, in, in my mind, I knew, I, I had a sense, you know, I, I had a sense for, you know, for what, how people were going to react.
15:34Not entirely, but I, I allowed myself to think about it at times.
15:39But for me, I knew that once I got on the track and started racing, that would be where I meant in my element, where at my most natural, but certainly the reaction, the reaction that I did, when Debbie Flonofkin gave me the, the flame.
15:56Yeah, certainly was really quite beautiful, you know, because the, the reaction I felt was, was lovely.
16:04I haven't really thought about it, so thank you for asking.
16:09It's just, it's a moment in time, I guess, where I was feeling very, very honoured indeed.
16:15Yeah.
16:17How, how important was it then to, as you say, start running to, to get into the business of, of, of what you were there to do?
16:28How much of a, a release and a relief was it to?
16:31Oh, it's, you know, it's interesting.
16:33Running has always been a release for me and a relief at the same time.
16:40And, and it's only now, you know, I'm 52 and I, I can absolutely embrace the whole concept of it all being so meditative for me.
16:50And, and, and, and, and, and so happy and so full of joy and I felt free that nothing even still to this day can, can quite compare to that feeling I, I used to experience every time I raced, especially raced.
17:11Yeah.
17:12Um, so, you know, I always, um, you know, in, in, in meditation circles and in mindfulness circles, I talk about, you know, this kind of non-doing, this whole idea of non-doing where, you know, it's, it's almost in line with, you know, being in flow or, or being in the zone.
17:32Yeah.
17:33I mean, I'm still trying to understand it.
17:36It's such a beautiful feeling.
17:39It was such, it's, it was such a beautiful feeling for me.
17:42I've almost felt like I, just my soul took flight or something.
17:46Okay.
17:47Um, you know, there's this beautiful joy I felt when I ran.
17:51Um, so, despite the intense pressures of it being an Olympic final, that was what, that's where I belonged out on the track competing.
18:02Yeah.
18:02Were you able to put yourself into a bubble, you know, from everything else outside?
18:09Because obviously there was everything that was going on with, uh, Marie Jose as well.
18:14And, you know, how, how she had to, you know, to leave and things like that.
18:18Were you aware of, of that going on at the time or?
18:21Absolutely.
18:22Absolutely.
18:23I remember being in the warmup track.
18:26We're doing a workout, a training workout.
18:28I think it was after the games started.
18:32I believe it was after the games had started.
18:36And, um, my heart dropped actually when I heard the news.
18:40I was so, um, kind of quietly devastated because I knew that I needed her.
18:46So I needed to race against her to feel this sort of sense of satisfaction at even having a shot at, at winning against her in my own home country.
18:58Uh, and, but at the same time, you know, I respected her decision.
19:03And I remember, I remember thinking to myself, geez, she must really have, she really must be so confident in the decision that she's made.
19:14And I respected that decision.
19:16So selfishly, I felt it was a bit of a, a sort of a, you know, heart dropping moment.
19:23And, but on the other hand, I, you know, I had to accept it and I respected her wishes.
19:28Yeah.
19:29Yeah.
19:30And, and when it got down to the, you know, getting into the heats and the, the semifinals, how were you, how were you feeling as you, as you went through those?
19:39It was, you're feeling, you know, good in form.
19:41Was it, was it going just as you'd hoped?
19:43Yeah, I, I was very clear on what I needed to do and I, I held onto my coaches every word, you know, because it can often just make you feel safe knowing what, you know, what the instructions were and what steps I needed to take.
20:01I remember the first round and the second round are all often just a case of without being too complacent or overconfident, but feeling strong and relaxed.
20:11In my experience, having been to two previous Olympics, the semifinal is where you, the intensity has to grow and you almost have to treat it like a, like a final actually, because, you know, surprises happen all the time.
20:29Athletes are going to come out and create magical performances out of the world all the time.
20:34Yeah.
20:35And, you know, we've seen in sport, all kinds of dramas can unfold.
20:39So you have to be quite assertive and, and, and be very commanding in your presence as a, as a contender for the Olympic gold medalist.
20:47And so I made sure I did that.
20:49I made sure that the other girls were going to have to compete against me.
20:53And because in a sense, I think we all knew that I had every advantage under the sun.
20:58I had a heart, the advantage of a home crowd, which was, I remember the girls, even with 110, 120 meters to go,
21:07nobody kind of forged their assertiveness in terms of, I can win this.
21:13Nobody really pushed it.
21:16Nobody.
21:16And so you can see if, if you ever see the race that I, I don't really make a move until this, we're well into the home straight.
21:25Because, you know, psychically, or, you know, you just can sense energetically.
21:31Nobody believes that they can win this thing.
21:34Yeah.
21:35Whereas the difference, if Murray Show-Parek had been in the race here in, in top form, it would have been, the tactics of the race would have been completely different.
21:45Yeah.
21:45It would have been far more intense from the, from the moment the gun went.
21:49Yeah.
21:50One other thing I wanted to ask you about was the swift suit.
21:54Oh, yes.
21:56And whether that was something you enjoyed, did you like running in it?
22:02It just felt, looking at it, it looks claustrophobic.
22:05And I just wondered if that, you know, how much of a difference that made.
22:09Yeah.
22:09I, you know, I, these questions you're asking me now, I had those very same questions before I, before I, you know, when, when I was presented with the whole idea with the concept, Ed Herbert, he was a driving force behind the research and design of it.
22:27Yeah, we sat down and got into it and, and, and, and discussed it and a childhood, um, in training and in a, in a race in Northern England and in Newcastle, I think it was in a 200.
22:41And I think once I got used to the new pre-race ritual, you know, because athletes, we tend to have certain ways of preparing to leave our hotel rooms to go to the track to compete.
22:55Yeah.
22:56I think once I got, I became, I became used to the new routine because wearing a leotard two-piece or, or a one-piece leotard is very different to, you know, wearing this, you know, one-piece all-body outfit.
23:16As soon as the gun went, I, you kind of, I forgot I was even wearing it, to be honest.
23:21Okay.
23:22As soon as the gun went, I forgot I was wearing it.
23:24However, I remember, I remember actually feeling like I was slicing through the air.
23:29Okay.
23:29I was slicing through the air and it felt beautiful.
23:32It felt really good.
23:34And I would not have worn it if I didn't feel good in it.
23:38Yeah.
23:39It's a big risk to take otherwise.
23:43I was hesitant because I thought, gee whiz, I'm already going to be given enough, you know, attention.
23:50I don't need to add to the drama.
23:54But to be really truthful, it made me feel really good.
23:58I really did feel like I was slicing through the air.
24:01And when it comes to the race itself, you've, you've just spoken about it, about it there.
24:06Do you remember much about the race itself or did it just sort of pass by in the blink of an eye?
24:15Yeah.
24:15I think that the part that I, we got to about 110 metres to go and that's where in a 400 metre, matters become really interesting.
24:25And all kinds of just, you know, the real story can start to unfold and the real competition can become evident and who's going to compete, who's going to make a presence and who isn't, or, you know, who has that self-belief and who's content with where they are at at that particular part of the race.
24:45It's, that's 400 metre running for you.
24:47You can see it all over athletes' bodies, you know, the way in which they compete.
24:53But I remember the two big moments for me were waiting for someone to make a move as we came around the second bend to hit the home straight.
25:04And then with about 70, 80 metres to go, I felt like I was, I literally felt like I, my feet went touching the ground and I was being carried.
25:13I was being carried.
25:15It just sounds so odd, doesn't it?
25:18But the crowd, everybody, it just seemed like everybody was gunning for me to win this thing.
25:25Yeah.
25:26It really did.
25:28And I, it was just so surreal.
25:32To not feel your feet touch the ground like that is just one of the most, most, is it bizarre?
25:41Yeah.
25:42I'd say it was a bizarre, bizarre set of circumstances for sure.
25:47Is that perhaps one of the reasons why you took your shoes off so quickly after you finished was just to get back in touch with the, with the groom?
25:57Absolutely.
25:58Absolutely.
25:59I spent a lot of my childhood barefoot and I consider myself a dirt and wood girl.
26:06Like I'm a, I'm a, you know, I'm from, I grew up in nature settings.
26:10So, yeah.
26:11In the outback of Queensland and bush regions of Australia.
26:15So, I think I needed to just feel the ground under my feet just to feel like exactly that, grounded.
26:22Yeah.
26:23Because there was absolute, I wouldn't call it pandemonium, but there was absolutely some very, some magic emotion going on around me.
26:35It's happening, you know, around me.
26:40You said there when you crossed the, cross the line, you had that feeling, oh, this is what it feels like to be the Olympic champion.
26:47What, what did that feel like?
26:49Or does that feeling come a little bit later on?
26:53I remember I was midair and I was, so, oh, so this is what it feels like to be an Olympic champion.
27:01I remember looking at the time and being disappointed with the time and I, I was really, really hoping to get under 49 seconds and I didn't.
27:11I ran 49.11 and, you know, for a quarter miler, running 48 is, it's exceptional.
27:19I think it's an exceptional result, you know, it's a special result, but it was okay.
27:26I was fine.
27:27I mean, I got the gold medal.
27:30I cherish my Olympic gold medal, but there's always this thing about, you know, not running 48 seconds.
27:39It's just an itch I cannot scratch or it's an itch that will always need scratching.
27:45It's the strangest sensation.
27:47I guess that's the athlete.
27:50There's always something that, you know, you can be looking for.
27:53You can be.
27:54Always, always.
27:57And, yeah, I just would have loved to have, yeah, run faster that night.
28:02So I think there's a part of me that would have, you know, could have, would have, should have.
28:07But, you know, at the end of the day, an Olympic gold medal is the pinnacle in track and field.
28:13So, yeah, good on me.
28:17And then, of course, you famously celebrated with the two flags.
28:21You know, there was so much positive reaction about that.
28:24I wondered if you had the other side of that as well, if there was much negative reaction too.
28:29No, that's an interesting question.
28:32I think I was just so drowning in celebration of feeling so personally satisfied and just so happy that, you know, I'd gotten through everything in one piece.
28:46But I just, I honestly didn't give much thought to, you know, the naysayers or, you know, those who you didn't quite understand or connect to why I flew both Australian flags.
29:01I've come to understand that you can't be understood by everybody.
29:05It's just, you know, not everyone's going to embrace each other, you know, in the true spirit of, you know, solidarity.
29:14It's just, you know, the world is a fair bit more complicated and complex.
29:19So, I mean, I've been pretty clear, even like back in the 1994 Commonwealth Games, six years previous at the Victoria British Columbia Commonwealth Games, where I became, you know, I got world ranked in the top three for the 200 and 400.
29:38And I, back then, flew both flags in my victory lap.
29:45Yeah.
29:45And I've always flown both flags in any major, like, title I've ever won, Commonwealth Games, individual performances.
29:55Yeah.
29:55In 94 Commonwealth Games, 97 world title, 99 world title, and then Sydney.
30:02So, it was not, it really shouldn't have been a surprise, especially to track and field fans or people who followed, who followed my story.
30:11Yeah.
30:12Yeah.
30:12Yeah.
30:13How proud were you of the conversations that it started?
30:18You know, how much of a difference that that moment made in terms of Australia and reconciliation?
30:24Yeah, I certainly, I've been told many things by my fellow, you know, First Nations community members or Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community members that, you know, I certainly have left breadcrumbs for others to follow, you know.
30:43And I was kind of, like, not really planning to create any, what seems to be a lasting impact.
30:50I was just always about just personal expression and pride in who I was as an Australian Indigenous girl.
30:57It was more of me sharing with the world that all of me.
31:02Yeah.
31:03And so, you know, but certainly after all these years, you know, it makes me really proud.
31:08You can go to some of Australia's most notable, you know, tourist sites or landmarks in the cities and in the rural parts of Australia and communities are proud to fly the Aboriginal flag.
31:26You know, they proudly embrace, you know, the ancient culture of Indigenous folk here in Australia.
31:32And it's nice that I, you know, helped to create a platform or, you know, aid in the cause of being more visible or giving voice or however you want to coin it or term it.
31:47I certainly unwittingly created this impact.
31:54That's the only way I can really respond.
31:57Yeah.
31:58Yeah.
31:58Do you look back on that time now from this distance and wonder how you did it?
32:05Because there was so much focus on you as one individual.
32:09It's a lot to manage.
32:13I think I put it down to just keeping life really simple and stripping away the things that aren't so necessary without being completely disrespectful of others, you know.
32:28Like I understood, you know, that the media have a job to do, you know, that administrators have a job to do.
32:36The reality is, is that people get excited about hosting an Olympic Games.
32:41Yeah.
32:42You know, and the opportunity is just so, can be lifelong.
32:47And the benefits for the community and for the economy and, you know, the list is long.
32:54And the legacy piece, of course.
32:57Yeah.
32:57It's rich.
32:59It's an incredible gift to, you know, to host an Olympic Games.
33:04And so, you know, being the seasoned Olympian that I was, you know, when Sydney rolled around, I was very attuned to those specific conditions.
33:15But I'd learned and honed a way of protecting, well, protection, is that the right word, or moving through it all so that I always, you know, was able to maintain my feeling of joy and freedom that I felt when I raced and when I ran.
33:35Yeah.
33:35And, you know, those conversations I had with my training partners, with my coach, it was always, always about the running.
33:45And so, yeah, you kind of just, I was determined to live my life the way I wanted, exactly how I wanted to live it.
33:53So.
33:54Yeah.
33:54And that was really clear, I feel.
33:57Yeah.
33:57And it showed.
33:59Yeah.
34:05Thank you to Cathy for our time, and I hope you enjoyed our conversation.
34:09Look out for more from the Athletics Weekly podcast in the coming weeks via your usual podcast provider, where you can also find our previous episodes.
34:18And don't forget, you can keep up to date with all the latest athletics news via athleticsweekly.com, where you can also find out how to become an AWE subscriber.
34:28Thanks for listening, and see you next time.
34:35Thanks for listening, and see you next time.
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