00:00That's what the judges who ruled in your favor said, that the word tariffs or even a synonym of the word tariffs is not mentioned anywhere in IEBA.
00:09And you represent in the lawsuit five small businesses who would be impacted by tariffs.
00:14So A, what has their reaction been to this ruling? And B, how have they been impacted by tariffs so far?
00:21So like with a lot of small businesses and other businesses throughout the United States, obviously the impact has been very painful and difficult.
00:30Many American businesses get goods from abroad that they need to do their work, inputs for production goods and so forth,
00:39which are often either just not available in the United States or only available at much higher cost or lower quality.
00:45So these tariffs, if allowed to stay in place, would be very damaging to the American economy, to businesses and also to consumers who end up having to pay higher prices.
00:54President Trump, it's probably no surprise to you, was not happy with this ruling.
01:00I want to read something that he posted in part on Truth Social.
01:04Quote, the USA will no longer tolerate enormous trade deficits and unfair tariffs and non-tariff trade barriers imposed by other countries,
01:13friend or foe, that undermine our manufacturers, farmers and everyone else.
01:18If allowed to stand, this decision would literally destroy the United States of America.
01:22At the start of this Labor Day weekend, we should all remember that tariffs are the best tool to help our workers
01:27and support companies that produce great made in America products.
01:31What do you make of his reaction there?
01:33Well, I guess I could make the obvious point that the United States very much existed before these tariffs were put in place
01:41and would certainly continue to exist without them.
01:44Moreover, the United States would be better off without them because economists estimate that if these tariffs remain in place,
01:51they would greatly reduce economic growth, raise prices for consumers and reduce incomes for far more workers than they might help.
01:59That's actually just fairly basic economics 101.
02:02And this ruling does not go into effect until October 14th.
02:08And President Trump himself has indicated that he's taking this to the Supreme Court.
02:12How are you gearing up for that fight?
02:15So obviously, if the case does go to the Supreme Court, we don't yet know for sure whether it will or not.
02:20But if it does, we will be prepared to defend our cause as we have so far.
02:24Are you concerned, though, about that Supreme Court fight?
02:28Because President Trump nominated three of those justices that now serve on the court, and it's a conservative-leaning court.
02:35So obviously, I can't know for sure what the Supreme Court justices might do.
02:41All I will say is that many of our arguments rely on doctrines that have been pioneered and defended by conservative Supreme Court justices as much as liberal ones.
02:51We've talked about the principle of non-delegation before, limits on the extent to which Congress can delegate executive powers to the president.
02:59If anything violates that, it's a virtually unlimited delegation of the kind that's being claimed here.
03:05And similarly, the Federal Circuit based this decision in part on the major questions doctrine, which says that if the executive is claiming that a power has been delegated to them, which enables them to decide large-scale social or economic issues,
03:22then at the very least, there has to be a clear delegation as opposed to something that's ambiguous.
03:28And here, it's difficult to think of a more major question than this one when we're talking about trillions of dollars in new taxes imposed on the American people, massive damage to the economy, and so far.
03:40So again, I can't know whether the Supreme Court will take the case or what they will do if they were to take it, but I think we have very compelling arguments that can appeal to conservative and liberal jurisdictions.
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