- 5 months ago
Sumud Nusantara brings together voices from Southeast Asia to stand in solidarity with Palestine. How important are these cross-border grassroots initiatives in amplifying the Palestinian struggle, especially when governments often face geopolitical constraints? Catch the discussion tonight 9pm
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00:00Good evening, I'm Amirul Aiman and welcome to Agenda Awani.
00:10Gaza's humanitarian crisis worsening with reports of famine,
00:15devastated hospitals and aid flows repeatedly blocked.
00:19At the same time, solidarity works across Asia are mobilising
00:23from Sri Lanka to Malaysia's Sumut Nusantara
00:26trying to keep Gaza at the forefront of global conscience.
00:31To unpack both the humanitarian realities and Asia's response as well,
00:35I'm joined today by Mr. Amin Izzadin,
00:37International Editor at the Sunday Times in Colombo
00:41and Muhammad Rafiq, Coordinator of the Asian Alliance of Palestinian Rights.
00:46Gentlemen, welcome to the show.
00:48Let me begin with you, Mr. Rafiq.
00:51From your networks on the ground,
00:53how would you describe the situation or humanitarian situation right now in Gaza today?
00:58What's the single most urgent bottleneck that needs to be addressed?
01:03Thank you very much.
01:04In fact, the catastrophe what we have seen on the ground is very much very distressed.
01:11And you don't need extra explanation for what is happening day by day.
01:15Even we can see what is happening to the journalist yesterday.
01:20The journalist covering on the catastrophe and the problem and the situation have been targeted.
01:27So that is the human life loss.
01:29Apart from the human life loss, we can see the famine.
01:32Now UN has declared the famine in Gaza officially.
01:37So, this type of atrocities happening on our own eyes.
01:45Every day, the children are being targeted.
01:48Hospitals are being targeted.
01:50And women...
01:51And moreover, the people who gather at the...
01:55What do you call this...
01:56Aid centers are being targeted.
01:59So what else...
02:00Where will they go?
02:02So these are very much...
02:04It's an agony for the whole humanity.
02:06So, we have to stop in all the forms.
02:10It may be diplomacy.
02:14It may be advocacy.
02:15It may be in any form.
02:17We have to stop.
02:18For that, all the world is united.
02:21From Europe.
02:22From America.
02:24From Australia.
02:25And now we want to make it a big voice from Asia.
02:30How we can...
02:31As Asians.
02:32From the Asian countries.
02:34How we can form a unified voice against this atrocity.
02:38To deliver the AIDS.
02:40Basically.
02:41Old and simultaneously.
02:44Stop this atrocity.
02:46By the Zionist regime.
02:49You've mentioned human lives loss.
02:52Targeted hospital.
02:53And also you call for Asian countries to act together.
02:56So if you had a direct line to the policymakers today.
02:59So what's the one action you would demand immediately for them to do to save lives?
03:04Yeah.
03:04Correct.
03:05You see, the voice must be from the top level.
03:09From diplomatic and policy makers level.
03:14And we have to influence, organize, coordinate and collaborate all the policy makers.
03:19To come in a strong unified voice.
03:23Basically from the leaders of the nations in the Asian countries.
03:27Right across from all these countries.
03:30And unified voice.
03:31Because we have so many examples.
03:32We have Asian.
03:34We have ADSAC.
03:36We have other forums also.
03:38So make it as a country.
03:40On the ground people are unified.
03:42We can see people are unified.
03:44They are making so many efforts on the people level.
03:48But in the state level, we have to make it a common voice.
03:51It's a collective voice.
03:52When you make a collective voice, on the state level, it will give very much impress and the forces to stop this atrocity in one way or the other.
04:04Mr. Amit, Mr. Rafiq has mentioned that on the ground level, people are unified.
04:09But the state level, maybe they can do a little bit more to ensure that this would not turn into a worse catastrophic in Gaza.
04:16From your vantage point as a journalist, how do you assess the international community's response so far?
04:23Has it been decisive or fragmented or mostly performative?
04:27It is performative and we are disappointed.
04:31I mean, it's from the Arab world, from the OIC and the Western countries which preach human rights to third world countries like Sri Lanka
04:40and maybe other countries like Bangkok.
04:42I mean, people still, I mean, we have been preached upon by the Western countries about our human rights.
04:48And we have been, Sri Lanka has been taken before the United Nations Human Rights Council for alleged war crimes.
04:54But when we see the Western countries are complicit in the Gaza massacre, in the Gaza genocide,
05:03what else we can say?
05:04The maximum, they issue condemnations, but they haven't taken any effective, meaningful measures so far.
05:14Twenty-two months have passed.
05:16It's a very serious crime in front of us.
05:18It's a live-streamed genocide.
05:20So we need to stop this.
05:22So as human beings, it's not a country, it's a humanitarian problem, it's a humanitarian crisis.
05:31And Gaza is expendable?
05:33Is it that you are just allowing that to happen?
05:37But if the same thing had happened or had been happening to a European country, would your response be the same?
05:43So these are the questions, the Western countries that, you know, the countries that can make a difference,
05:50that can really make a difference.
05:52They can stop the Israel's action by imposing sanctions, by stopping the arm supplies, by stopping sharing intelligence.
06:01They can make a difference, which they haven't so far done.
06:05Condemnations alone won't stop this.
06:08They are just, it's time for action now.
06:10I think they have to take some action.
06:12So I'm not happy with the international response to address this crisis.
06:19Mr. Amin, rightly so, you mentioned that it's mostly performative.
06:23I'd like to bring back to this issue where quite recently there's been several Westerners countries.
06:30There are mostly former allies of Israel has been starting to recognize Palestine as a state.
06:36How do you read into this situation, into the action?
06:38Is it, some say it's more of like handwashing of the situation?
06:42How do you read into this situation?
06:44Yes, there is, there is some pressure is building up on the one hand.
06:47Like say countries like Australia, yes, the ground level, the ground swell is visible.
06:52In France, yes, there is a, there is a socialist woodblock in France.
06:56So this, in United Kingdom, yes, there is, the ground level opposition is growing.
07:04So the government has to, on the one hand, government has to respond to that.
07:08And the second thing is, you know, they just want to, you know, this gives them a fig leaf to cover their shame.
07:14You know, that's, you know, they have done so much harm to the Palestinian people.
07:18They have, they have been virtually complicit in the, I mean, by not taking action, by their silence, by their support, more the immoral support to Israel, the financial assistance, arm supplies to Israel.
07:30They have become part and parcel of this genocide and they are complicit.
07:35So in order to, you know, absolve themselves at least by a little bit, that's what this is.
07:40But why can't they do immediately?
07:42Why they have to wait till the United, the UN sessions in September?
07:46So from the time they announced their decision to recognize Israel and the September sessions,
07:53there are quite a, I think, more than a month gap during this one month gap daily in Gaza.
08:00More, scores of people have to, more than 20, 30, 40, sometimes hundreds of people, hundreds are killed daily at the, at the food, as my friend Rafik said, at food centers, they have been gunned, children have been gunned down.
08:16The story of the little Amir, you know, who would have heard that, he walked 12 kilometers from his camp to get some food.
08:24And while getting that food, he kept, you know, when there was an American Marine and he gave, and you know, the boy didn't get much food.
08:33He got some remnants, but still he was very thankful to that American soldier.
08:37He took his hand and kissed him.
08:39And then he said bye and he, while he was going, the American Marine heard gunfire.
08:45And when he came back to sea, he had been gunned down by an Israeli soldier.
08:49And it was, then he himself, that this American Marine who worked at the, the, the so-called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation Aid Center,
08:56he confessed to what he saw.
08:59And that's really a touching thing, you know, this boy couldn't, you know, take food to his family or his brother or his sister, younger sister.
09:07It's a very tragedy.
09:09And so, while aid struggles to get through another battlefield is in the headline themselves of how Gaza is reported.
09:16Before, I would like to go to Mr. Rafik on how aid is being provided to the Gazans.
09:21But, but I would like to ask Mr. Amin first, do you see systematic bias in Western media coverage of Gaza?
09:29Certainly, certainly, it is totally biased.
09:32BBC has been, you know, they have a set of, they call it Gaza war.
09:39What is this war?
09:40War means there needs two people of equal military strength.
09:44Where is that war?
09:45This is not a war.
09:46On the one hand, you have the world's, one of the most powerful military, Israel.
09:51I think it is, it's the, either eighth or between the first 20, the most, the, the powerful military.
09:59And, and the, what, what, what we are talking about Hamas and the, the Palestinian resistance, they are, they are barely armed.
10:06And this, you call this a war?
10:08No, this is not even a conflict.
10:09This is total massacre.
10:11So, the Western, so the Western media, as you, the question I'm coming to,
10:15the Western media use a certain sets of words, calling it a conflict.
10:22There is calling it the terrorism problem.
10:25It's not a terrorism problem.
10:28Resistance is not terrorism.
10:31The one who calls resistance a terrorist is a bigger terrorist.
10:35So, resistance is recognized by the additional protocol of the Geneva Conventions of 1949.
10:39Numerous United Nations human rights, the United Nations General Assembly resolutions,
10:47armed struggle has been resistance by the occupied people.
10:50The occupation is totally illegal.
10:53If your country is occupied by a foreign country, you have the right to take up arms and whatever measures that you,
11:00it is necessary to repel, to end that occupation.
11:03Occupation is totally illegal.
11:04So, this is what the Palestinian, the Western media do not understand the core of the problem.
11:10They think the problem started on October 7, 2023.
11:14It did not, the Palestinian problem, the crisis did not start in a vacuum.
11:20There's a long history and the long crisis.
11:22I mean, prior to that October 7, 2023, that particular year, nearly about 3,000 people have been killed.
11:30The previous year, 2022, was the United Nations, you know, called it the most disastrous year of the Palestinian people
11:38because thousands have been killed, including children.
11:41And things are happening not only in Gaza and the West Bank also.
11:45People are being killed.
11:46Their houses are being bulldozed.
11:48Settlers are occupying the Arab-Palestinian land.
11:51These are not properly shown.
11:53I mean, if the Western media could today change their narrative and get rid of their bias
12:01and they do objective journalism, certainly there will be bigger change
12:06and the crisis can end within no time.
12:23And Mr. Amin, you rightly mentioned that there has been bias, especially from the Westerners.
12:31Mr. Rafiq, on your side, solidarity movements often work around these dominant narratives.
12:37Do you find it harder to mobilize your aid and all that when mainstream coverage feels a bit tilted or incomplete?
12:47Exactly, yeah.
12:48So, basically the mainstream media, what Mr. Amin said is, that is their, we can say it is their norm.
12:56But thanks to the social media and thanks to the followers and all the social media activists, thanks,
13:04they have built up the narratives.
13:06They really convey the message to every corner of the world, every heart of the people.
13:12So, the, on the ground, people are very much educated, not believing the mainstream media,
13:18they build up the, that is what the results of what is the, all this, the people coming out on the street,
13:25every day we see and even they see Asian countries, we see the last couple of weeks and couple of months,
13:32the people are coming every day, they are posting and we can see this flooded with all this,
13:37because of this narrative, the people no longer believe in the mainstream media, they don't know, never.
13:43But they build up, each and every one, they have taken, they are all in the mobile, they build up their own media,
13:49they circulate it and it goes viral to every single message, for an example what is happening in the food center,
13:56they take it and pick it up and give and censorize, because it is the humanitarian issue,
14:01not a war that we are watching in a film, it is a daylight killing and it goes to every, you can see the people, small children watching a mobile phone at his home, while eating and he said at the same time what is happening in Gaza,
14:18so we don't see that is in the mainstream media, so we have to counter narrative is the best thing is our own media, we have to take our own media,
14:26own media we have, everybody have, we have, we have in our pocket, we have in our school and everybody involved,
14:33so what is happening on the ground, it should go to each and every part of the world, each and every single person,
14:41by that then now the world is realized, the world has realized, that's why all these people are willing, they don't believe,
14:49so why that, the humanitarian issue, the double standard of the world, why the world is inept in acting, why the leaders are just talking about,
14:58why the people are taking the issue to their own hand, they are not listening to their leaders and they are taking or coming on to this side,
15:05because they see what is really happening on their own naked eyes, so I think this is the best way,
15:12mobilizing the people, telling the truth, without any discrimination, without any sense of real time what is happening on the ground,
15:19you see, mainstream media, I don't know whether the mainstream has shown that the killing of the five Al Jazeera,
15:26but it went viral, immediately, on the people's, everybody's laptop and everything, so this is how we have to say,
15:36and say the truth, say what is happening, that way, inshallah, we can change the perception of this, this is, we don't understand what kind of war is,
15:50is it for war for something else, is it for war, removing somebody else, or is it war for giving food and blocking the food,
15:59so this is a, we don't know, we cannot, we cannot categorize in the, the, the vocabulary of the, what kind of war,
16:06is it, is this for war, is this for blocking the food, is this for killing, unnecessarily killing the journalist,
16:13because of the journalists reporting their truth, they are, they want to silence the, the voice of the journalist,
16:18so what kind of war it is, so this message must be brought across the people,
16:27as well, respective of age and category, so thank you.
16:32Mr. Rafiq, Mr. Amin, Mr. Rafiq has mentioned that the attacks on journalists has also have an effect on the narratives,
16:40and how it has been distributed to the Gaza people, and I want to bring you to the attacks in Gaza that have killed journalists,
16:47media workers, hundreds of them, and including the recent strike on Nasir Hospital, as someone leading a newsroom,
16:54what does this say about the space left for independent reporting in conflict zones such as Gaza?
17:01Well, I think this is, this is where, I mean, killing journalists is, it's against international law.
17:08Journalists are a protected people. International law calls for the protection of journalists in the conflict zone.
17:16So they, this is, I mean, this is something that the additional protocol of the Geneva Convention also talks about,
17:23the protection of journalists in, especially in conflict situations.
17:28So this has been, I mean, Israelis are no respecter of international law.
17:32They, they, they, they don't respect human rights.
17:36The, it's, it's, it's a settler colonial, apartheid, ethno supremacist state.
17:44And it believes in expansionism.
17:47That's what, you know, if you take, if you take from the, Israel, the map of the, the Palestinian region, Israel,
17:54I mean, you can see from 1947, what was Palestine before 1947,
18:01and in 1947 during the UN partition, and 1967, 73, and in 2000,
18:09and what we have now is just a, a Bantustan-like Palestine.
18:14So the two-stage solution is also becoming totally impossible to achieve
18:20unless, unless the international community steps in with good intention
18:26to make, to, to bring, to bring about justice and peace to the region and to the entire world,
18:33and they intervene, then we can, we can keep some hope.
18:37But since international, the Western countries would not, I am, I'm 100% sure, would not, you know, defy, you know, they have no strength to defend,
18:48because of the Israeli lobbyist very powerful influence in the United States, in the United Kingdom,
18:54and maybe other European countries like Germany, France and all.
18:57It's very unlikely the West will take a decision that will go against the interest of Israel.
19:03Israel's interest is expansionism.
19:05They want to set up the Eretz Israel or the Great Israel, which expands from the Nile in Egypt,
19:12covered in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and all the way up to parts of Iraq to the Euphrates.
19:18So that's the big Israel they were thinking about.
19:21President, Prime Minister Netanyahu, who is the war, international criminal court suspect, war crime suspect,
19:29he recently, in an interview to an Israeli channel, he admitted, you know, my mission is a spiritual mission.
19:35So when we bring that spiritual thing, he talks, he thinks in terms of Eretz Israel.
19:40And he was, it was very, very, I mean, it made even Saudi Arabia to issue a very strong condemnation
19:47about the statement, about his remark.
19:50Gentlemen, I want to bring this conversation from the media lens to the grassroots level,
19:54where the story of solidarity is playing on, out across Asia.
19:58Mr. Rafiq, how has the Alliance for the Palestinian Rights mobilization support across the region?
20:06What kind of initiatives have proven the most effective for you?
20:09Yeah, thank you.
20:10Basically, this, now, the mobilization is, aids, the convoysor, stimulus.
20:18Similar, there on the board, there are hundreds of aid trucks lined up.
20:22But the thing is, it is under siege.
20:25So we have to break the siege.
20:27That is why the Sumudh comes to the scene saying, no, no more silent, no more siege.
20:35That is the main slogan of the Sumudh, to bring, to break the siege.
20:39How can we break the siege?
20:40How can we break the siege?
20:41To build up the consensus of the people.
20:43For that, the Sumudh has started the, quite long time, initiatives from the, this region,
20:50connecting people and mobilizing their voices.
20:54And they are awakening the public.
20:59So we did so many effects.
21:01For that, the last July, the last week of July, in Malaysia, we had a collective meeting from the representatives from Asian countries.
21:12From Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Maldives, Malaysia, India, all these countries, people represented, came, the volunteers and the organization representation.
21:26So we made a consensus to, in this Asian region, we conveyed this message, no more silent, no more siege.
21:35That is the slogan we had.
21:37And that is the end of, the last week of July, our initiative.
21:40And based on that, we conducted so many programs from Thailand, convoys coming from Thailand and the Philippines.
21:49And mass release, we held in Sri Lanka, simultaneously, say, July, August 15th or Friday.
21:56The simultaneously, we conducted the mass release in Sri Lanka, Maldives, of Nepal, Thailand and other parts of the Asian countries.
22:08There is a one unified voice against this one.
22:11Also, collecting of everybody on the 24th of August, we gathered in Mardeka and the Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur
22:23under the patronage of the Honorable Prime Minister of Malaysia, Tata Sri Anwar Ibrahim.
22:29It was a big rally, it was a big message to the world.
22:32In fact, there is the Asian unified voice.
22:35There is the Asian unified voice from this region because we had more than a month.
22:42We had very effective mobilization of the grassroots level people.
22:47And in fact, people are ready to join this mission.
22:50They are willingly, irrespective of any divisions.
22:54We take religion, you may take color, you may take any division, they are unified for this course.
23:01And people represented on the 24th August, the mass rally in Mardeka.
23:07It was a very big rally.
23:09And I think in Asia, it is the first of its kind of rally.
23:14So, it gives a message that Asians are, and Asians have a different age.
23:20Asians are different.
23:21And we have multi-culture, multi-religious, multi-ethnic, different languages in there.
23:25But apart from that, we all agreed to convey this message to the Israelis and the occupied forces,
23:32that the Asia is no longer silent.
23:35And there will be no more silent.
23:37And we want to break the siege.
23:39For that initiative, the flotilla convoys are being arranged.
23:44And the volunteers are going to this port of Spain and Tunisia to join this flotilla.
23:51And they will make a march to Gaza, in what way possible, to break the siege.
24:01Mr Rafiq, gentlemen, we have only one minute left.
24:04And I have a question to Mr Rafiq.
24:06Sumut Dusantara brings together voices from Southeast Asia and to stand in solidarity with Palestine.
24:12From your perspective, how important are these cross-border grassroots initiatives in amplifying the Palestinian struggle?
24:19Especially when governments often face geopolitical constraints.
24:22Yeah.
24:23Well, grassroots is our strength.
24:26When we mobilize the grassroots only, the perception and the leaders will listen.
24:33When the leaders, we want to say the leaders, the grassroots are ready and they are unified, they are organized,
24:39they make their voice in one voice in every part of the world, every part of these countries.
24:45So, we want to make it a unified voice to listen to our leaders.
24:49Because whatever the grassroots, whatever the people are doing, it will create very little or some kind of impact only.
24:58But when it goes to the leaders level, that will get the great impact.
25:05So, we want to make it to the leaders in the region that people are unified.
25:09So, you also become unified to this cause.
25:12Gentlemen, thank you very much.
25:14We've talked about famine conditions, contested narratives and grassroots mobilization and also diplomatic levels.
25:20At the heart of it, lives are still at stake and the question is whether words can translate into real action.
25:27My thanks to Amin Izzadin and Mr. Muhammad Rafiq here with us.
25:31Gentlemen, appreciate for your insights.
25:32I'm Amil Aiman and this has been Agenda Awani.
25:35Thank you very much and good time.
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