- 5 months ago
The rise and fall of Jim & Tammy Bakker and why government agencies failed to investigate claims of corruption within their evangelical empire.
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00:01Funding for Frontline is provided by this station and other public television stations nationwide
00:07and by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
00:12Tonight on Frontline, the rise and fall of Jim Baker.
00:16I believe God has established this network as a base to reach the world.
00:22Tonight, Frontline reveals that eight years before the Jessica Hahn scandal,
00:27the U.S. government knew what was happening inside PTL.
00:31We found evidence of personal enrichment,
00:35people going into the PTL counting room and scooping money out.
00:39Why did Washington take so long to move against Jim Baker?
00:43Tonight, praise the Lord.
00:53From the network of public television stations,
00:56a presentation of KCTS Seattle,
00:58WNET New York,
01:00WPBT Miami,
01:02WTVS Detroit,
01:04and WGBH Boston.
01:07This is Frontline,
01:09with Judy Woodruff.
01:14Good evening.
01:15Welcome to a new season of Frontline,
01:17our sixth year on public television.
01:20We begin tonight with one of 1987's most widely covered news stories,
01:26the sex and financial scandal that destroyed Jim and Tammy Baker's television ministry,
01:32called PTL, or praise the Lord.
01:35A federal grand jury is now investigating the Bakers and other top PTL officials
01:40on possible charges of tax evasion and fraud.
01:44The IRS now claims that Baker has received $10 million in excessive compensation,
01:50and that PTL owes the government over $55 million in back taxes.
01:56These now very visible government investigations surfaced only after the Jessica Hahn scandal forced Baker to leave PTL last spring.
02:06But a new Frontline investigation has uncovered a substantial body of evidence that shows the federal government knew what was happening inside PTL as early as 1979,
02:20and for eight years failed to take action to stop the excesses of PTL and the Bakers.
02:27That lack of government action is the focus of our report tonight.
02:32It is called Praise the Lord.
02:34It was written and directed by William Cran and produced by Stephanie Tepper.
02:40.
02:53.
02:55Do you know why Jim Baker's on television, you modernist preachers?
02:59.
03:01It's your fault I'm on TV!
03:03.
03:05God had to raise up a boy from Muskegon, Michigan
03:10And put his anointing on him
03:11Because the modernists refused to praise God
03:14They got so cold and frozen in their church
03:16And no one ever praised God
03:18If your church won't praise God
03:23Then we've got to do it on television
03:24The cameras are praising the Lord
03:27The satellites are praising the Lord
03:29The transmitters are praising the Lord
03:30Come on choir, sing it
03:32Come on people, worship the Lord
03:34For years, Jim Baker's devoted audience
03:42Showered him with millions of dollars
03:44You're ready, you're ready to burn
03:47What they didn't know was that sex and money scandals
03:50Hung over the TV minister's head like a sword of Damocles
03:53But a sexual encounter in a Florida motel
04:00Brought the truth to life
04:01And Jessica Hahn's story was only the first chapter
04:05In a whole book of revelations
04:07In fact, Washington knew a lot about Baker
04:15Years before the scandal broke
04:17In 1979, the Federal Communications Commission
04:23Was investigating Baker
04:24And grilling him about fundraising and finances
04:27It was the hardest day of my life today
04:32I hope to God
04:36I never have to go through
04:40What I went through today
04:42I think I will choose to go to jail
04:45Larry Bernstein was the FCC investigator nine years ago
04:54We found enough evidence to indicate that serious wrongdoing had been done
04:59Indeed, possibly criminal wrongdoing
05:02I immediately wrote up a report
05:04It languished for two years at the FCC
05:07The FCC was rewritten three times
05:09Each time watered down
05:11And then when it was all over
05:14Nothing was done with it
05:15Since then, Bernstein's report
05:17And 4,500 pages of evidence
05:20Have been sitting on the shelves of the FCC
05:23Frontline has obtained draft copies of Bernstein's report
05:27On it, someone has noted
05:29The extensive deletions and modifications that were made
05:33The fate of the report raises serious questions
05:36Not only about the FCC's conduct
05:38But also about the Internal Revenue Service
05:41And the Department of Justice
05:43Both of whom received copies of this report
05:46Despite evidence of false solicitation
05:51Possible tax evasion and even fraud
05:53All three agencies failed to act
05:56And Baker continued to raise millions with apparent impunity
05:59On the United States of America
06:01If TV evangelists sometimes seem to be above the law
06:08It is because of the Constitution
06:10The Founding Fathers wanted to ensure the freedom of religion
06:15The First Amendment put a wall between church and state
06:18That's why churches and TV ministries
06:21Are not generally accountable to government
06:23And enjoy tax-exempt status
06:25And that's why ever since George Washington's day
06:29Politicians have been loath to legislate
06:32In matters of religion
06:33But early this century
06:36Fundamentalism was a growing force in American life
06:39The Prohibition era
06:42Outlawing alcohol
06:44Was largely brought about
06:45By a potent mixture of old-time religion
06:48And politics
06:49But if Prohibition was a high-water mark for this movement
06:56It met its high noon in 1925
06:58When a young teacher named John Scopes
07:01Was put on trial for teaching Darwin's theory of evolution
07:04Which then, as now, was anathema to many born-again Christians
07:08The public image of fundamentalists in America
07:12Is principally shaped by the events of the Scopes trial
07:18Press coverage of the monkey trial was unprecedented
07:21The name monkey trial itself connotes the sentiment that people had
07:26And it was widely publicized
07:28William Jennings Bryan
07:30Who had been a conservative thumping
07:32For fundamentalists in conservative causes
07:35Was seen to have been made a fool
07:36And after the Scopes trial
07:39It absolutely collapsed
07:40And it had a dramatic impact on fundamentalism
07:43Many people retreated from it
07:45The reputation of fundamentalism
07:49Suffered another blow in 1926
07:51When the charismatic Amy Semple McPherson
07:54Was embroiled in a sex scandal
07:55And there were also questions
08:00About the millions she raised
08:01For her Church of the Foursquare Gospel
08:03Many people accuse all evangelists and ministers
08:08Of preaching the gospel
08:09For the sake of earning great amounts of money
08:12And I suppose that I come in for my share of the criticism
08:14I do not deny that in the 23 years
08:17I have been preaching the gospel
08:18It has been successful in that
08:20Millions of dollars have come through my hands
08:22But every dollar that has come in
08:24Has gone back into God's work
08:26We have a long time span
08:28From her saying it's nobody's business
08:32But me and God
08:33To Jerry Falwell
08:34In April of 1987
08:37In his press conference
08:38With the PTL board
08:40And he had taken over
08:40Saying we've had our wrists slapped
08:42We deserve to be accountable
08:45To the general public
08:47And to people who have given
08:48Sinclair Lewis's novel
08:51Elmer Gantry
08:52Is a caricature of that kind of shenanigan
08:55Preachers who were bilking
08:58And the poor and the innocent people
09:02Of our culture
09:03And that image has never escaped
09:05With the television
09:06The television evangelist
09:07Is merely an extension of that image
09:11Except he's gone for the tent
09:12And the sawdust trail
09:13Into a television studio
09:15Admiral
09:19World's largest television manufacturer
09:22A leader in the field of home appliances
09:24Creators of the best
09:26For every room in your home
09:28Takes great pride in presenting
09:30His Excellency
09:31Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
09:33In Life is Worth Living
09:34A program devoted to the everyday problems of all of us
09:37In the early days of television
09:40The major networks gave so-called free time
09:43To the mainstream religious denominations
09:45In 1942
09:47Evangelicals
09:48Who were virtually excluded from the airwaves
09:50Formed their own broadcasting organization
09:52And vowed to get their share of airtime
09:55This wonderful new medium
09:57Was a way of fulfilling
09:59They saw it of fulfilling scripture
10:01Go ye into all the world
10:03And preach the gospel
10:03To every living creature
10:04Here's a medium for you to do it
10:07In the 1940s
10:09Reverend Billy Graham
10:10Was among the first to go on this crusade
10:12And take the television cameras with him
10:16We're finding moral deterioration in this country
10:20Unprecedented
10:21And unparalleled in the history of the great American nation
10:25And today
10:26We're in desperate need
10:28Of the voice of the prophets of Amos and Isaiah
10:31To rise once again
10:33And warn the people of America
10:35To prepare to meet almighty God
10:37Then in 1960
10:39A ruling by the FCC
10:41Transformed the fortunes of TV pioneers
10:44Like the Reverend Jerry Falwell
10:46We're giving to God
10:47Our time, talent and resources
10:49Commercial broadcasters would be freed
10:52To sell the airtime
10:53They had previously given away
10:55To religious programmers
10:57This FCC decision gave fundamentalists
11:01The chance to challenge
11:02The privileged position
11:03Enjoyed by mainstream churches
11:06Dissolve
11:07Slow push fire
11:08Push fire
11:10Using the power of the pulpit
11:12To raise money
11:13Fundamentalist preachers
11:14Began to buy more and more airtime
11:17But their lack of any real accountability
11:23Began to trouble people like Baptist minister
11:26And former Republican congressman
11:28John Buchanan
11:29Notwithstanding the best efforts
11:31Of Billy Graham and others
11:33To get the whole world of televangelism
11:36Into Billy Graham's evangelical council
11:39For fiscal accountability
11:40Which required audits
11:42Which required operating in the sunshine
11:44As he has always done
11:45The top ten televangelists
11:47Are not a part of that effort
11:50And of that organization
11:52Therefore we don't know
11:53What is happening with the money
11:55And biblically sound textbooks
11:59Must be written for every school child
12:01In every course of study
12:03Only partly financially accountable
12:06And exempt from all taxes
12:08The electronic churches waxed strong
12:10Now they could use the awesome power
12:12Of TV itself to raise funds
12:14To keep their programs on the air
12:16There is no head
12:18By the 1970s
12:19As they were beginning to sense
12:21Their political power
12:22This nation is a nation under God
12:24Of God and by God almighty
12:27And this is the constitution
12:28Of the United States
12:30The holy word of almighty God
12:32Jim and Jimmy
12:34Jim Baker was one of the most successful
12:43Of all televangelists
12:44Ellen Baker
12:48No relation
12:49The PTL video librarian
12:51Has logged hundreds of hours
12:52Of Baker's broadcasts
12:54And is well aware
12:55Of his special appeal
12:56You feel like they're one of you
13:02You know
13:02And you feel like you're sitting there
13:03With them
13:03And they're talking to you
13:04And they talk about everyday things
13:07And they're not just preaching down to you
13:09Baker was a television natural
13:14According to a former vice president
13:16Of PTL
13:17Robert Manzano
13:18He felt the best way of handling
13:21And using television as a medium
13:22Was to look at the very center
13:24Of the lens
13:26And make believe he was talking
13:28To one individual
13:29Sitting in the comfort of his living room
13:31So therefore
13:32He would use the example
13:33Of a preacher getting up
13:34And screaming a message
13:36To the audience
13:38Sitting on television
13:38And it was as if
13:39One person
13:41An evangelist
13:42Would walk into your living room
13:43And walk in and said
13:45You need to accept Jesus Christ
13:46As your savior
13:47And just scare you to death
13:49Where if I walked into your living room
13:51Or someone else
13:52You would do it in a much more relaxed
13:54Much more folksy
13:55Your homey atmosphere
13:56James O. Baker was born in 1940
13:59And like much of his audience
14:01Says he was born poor
14:02I baptize them in the name of the Father
14:05And of the Son
14:06And of the Holy Spirit
14:07As a teenager
14:12He was born again
14:13And had a traditional water baptism
14:15A Bible school dropout
14:18He met his future wife
14:19Tammy Faye
14:20While still at college
14:21Come on
14:24Come on
14:25Come on down
14:26Come on down
14:27Soon after their marriage
14:28They went on the tent
14:29And sawdust trail
14:30As itinerant preachers
14:32Praise God
14:34They're coming
14:34In the name of Jesus
14:36Then in 1965
14:38They joined Pat Robertson's
14:40New and struggling
14:41Christian TV station
14:43In Portsmouth, Virginia
14:44And this is where
14:47Henry Harrison
14:48Uncle Henry
14:49Baker's co-host for years
14:51First met Jim and Tammy
14:52When I joined the staff
14:54At CBN
14:55With Pat Robertson
14:56In September of 1967
14:58Jim and Tammy Baker
15:00Were doing a live
15:01One hour
15:01Daily children's show
15:03Using puppets
15:04Jim and Tammy
15:05Were two of the
15:06Most open
15:07Congenial
15:09Kids
15:10I ever saw
15:12He felt that
15:16He was the one
15:17That had the brilliant idea
15:18Of copying the
15:19Johnny Carson
15:19Type format
15:20For Christian television
15:22My, we have so much
15:23To praise the Lord
15:24About today
15:24That I think
15:25We better get started
15:25Right away
15:26Just praising the Lord
15:27For his goodness
15:28Amen
15:28Isn't the Lord good?
15:30It wasn't long
15:33Before Baker
15:33Discovered that
15:34His broadcasting talent
15:35Made him an
15:36Exceptionally effective
15:37Fundraiser
15:38One time
15:39The telethon
15:40Wasn't doing
15:41Terribly well
15:41And so Jim started
15:43Crying and started
15:44Saying that if
15:44People didn't send
15:45In ten dollars
15:46Or something like
15:47That
15:47That they wouldn't
15:49Be able to
15:50To survive
15:51And people started
15:52The phone started
15:52Ringing
15:53People started
15:53Sending money
15:54Praise God
15:55A thousand dollars
15:56Here's another one
15:58First time
15:58Five dollars a month
16:00Here's another one
16:00For fifteen dollars
16:01A month
16:02And another one
16:03Here for ten dollars
16:04A month
16:04We praise God
16:05I can hear phones
16:06Ringing
16:06We have almost
16:07One hundred phones
16:08Busy
16:08Come on
16:09Let's ring them all
16:10In 1974
16:11A Christian
16:12Broadcasting organization
16:14Based in Charlotte
16:15North Carolina
16:15Recruited Baker
16:17Not least
16:18For his fundraising ability
16:19Within months
16:21It was solvent
16:22And Baker
16:23Was chairman
16:23And president
16:24Oh our time
16:26Is gone for today
16:27We're going to be
16:29Going around the world
16:30Every day this week
16:31So tune in again
16:32Tomorrow
16:32And remember
16:33That God loves you
16:34He really does
16:36Goodbye for today
16:36You have been watching
16:40The PTL partnership special
16:42Go into all the world
16:44Baker raised so much money
16:46For his Praise the Lord
16:48TV operation
16:49That he became
16:49The second Christian broadcaster
16:51To set up his own
16:52Satellite network
16:54From this moment on
16:55The PTL television network
16:58Plans to broadcast
17:00Television
17:01And radio
17:02Non-stop
17:0424 hours a day
17:06Until the second coming
17:08Of Jesus Christ
17:09Baker's satellite network
17:16Played an important role
17:18In the spread
17:18Of televangelism
17:19By carrying
17:20Other religious
17:21Broadcasters
17:22Programs
17:23In the 1970s
17:29New technology
17:30And their tax-exempt status
17:31Helped the televangelists
17:33Enjoy a phenomenal growth rate
17:35You're watching PTL
17:42The inspirational network
17:44Jim Baker's PTL club
17:49Was perhaps the most professional
17:50Of all the Christian TV shows
17:52Here goes
17:53It's too late to go to the restroom
17:54You're trapped
17:5515 seconds
17:57Stand by
17:58The shelves
18:02In the video library
18:03Were filling up
18:03With 16 hours
18:05Of new television
18:05Every week
18:06PTL had over
18:08A million daily viewers
18:09Generated an income
18:11Of 120 million dollars
18:13A year
18:13And with a staff
18:14Of over 2,000
18:15Had become
18:16The second biggest employer
18:17In Charlotte
18:18PTL
18:19So much this room
18:20Presents
18:21Here
18:22PTL
18:23In 1978
18:30The Charlotte Observer
18:31Began to take a closer look
18:32At Jim Baker
18:33And PTL
18:34Over the next 10 years
18:36The newspaper published
18:37A series of hard-hitting
18:39And award-winning
18:40Exposes
18:40Here was a large enterprise
18:43Right close to home
18:45Taking in lots of money
18:47From all over the country
18:49And we felt
18:50No one was watching
18:51There was no
18:53Elected official
18:54Who might be accountable
18:56For the money
18:57There seemed to be
18:59Very little
18:59Government interest
19:00In what was going on
19:02At PTL
19:03Well the PTL
19:05Television network
19:05Is growing
19:07Every single day
19:08It wasn't a question
19:10Of Jim Baker
19:11It was a question
19:11Of accountability
19:12By now
19:14Baker was using
19:15His 500 station network
19:17To raise money
19:17For missionary work
19:18Abroad
19:19And I believe
19:21God has established
19:22This network
19:23As a base
19:24To reach the world
19:25I believe
19:27Every penny
19:28That comes in
19:30Over and above
19:31The actual minimum cost
19:32To keep us on the air
19:33And the budget
19:34Needs to go
19:35To world evangelism
19:37And world missions
19:38Praise God
19:39He would make commitments
19:42On the air
19:42And then didn't count
19:44The cost
19:45Of what those
19:46Commitments would mean
19:47So please
19:48Welcome Dr. Cho
19:49To PTL
19:50The commitments
19:51Made to South Korea's
19:53Dr. Cho
19:53Were the start
19:54Of Baker's troubles
19:55Promise Dr. Cho
19:57TV equipment
19:59Which eventually
19:59I figured
20:00Would be worth
20:01About a million dollars
20:01We're going to Korea
20:03And Japan
20:03Amen
20:04Praise the Lord
20:05You name it
20:06We made commitments
20:07And then when it came
20:08Time for paying
20:09The piper
20:10The monies
20:10Either weren't there
20:11Or they weren't allocated
20:12Made a commitment
20:13To Bob McAllister
20:15In Brazil
20:16Our goal is
20:17Every day in Brazil
20:18Every day in Brazil
20:19Praising the Lord
20:20Made a commitment
20:21To Elias Malki
20:23In Middle East Project
20:24If God would help us
20:26I would say
20:27We must put that
20:29Transmitter into Cyprus
20:30I wrote a memo
20:32Detailing all the monies
20:34That had been raised
20:35For specific projects
20:37And when we were told
20:38That we didn't have
20:38The money to fund
20:39These things
20:39I wrote a memo
20:40Stating that
20:41What
20:42That I recommended
20:43Strongly that we
20:44Fulfill our commitments
20:45Or else we would be
20:46Jeopardizing our credibility
20:48Dr. Cho gave this to me
20:50I want to show this
20:51Despite Manzano's memos
20:53Baker went on talking
20:54As if projects in Korea
20:56Brazil and Cyprus
20:57Were fully viable
20:58And to raise more money
21:00He went on offering
21:01Trinkets like this replica
21:03Of the Korean crown jewels
21:04By doing so
21:06Baker was laying himself
21:07Open to possible charges
21:08Of mail and wire fraud
21:10We're going to have a special
21:11Packet of cameras
21:13For Korea
21:14And a special unit
21:15We're going to build
21:16Actually a mobile unit
21:17That can go to Japan
21:19And Korea as well
21:21But our studios
21:22The production for the
21:23For the Asia countries
21:24Will be in Korea
21:25Because the studio
21:27Has been given to us
21:28A studio as big
21:29As this building right here
21:30Eventually became embarrassing
21:32Because people
21:32Americans in particular
21:33Started going to Korea
21:34Looking for the PTL studios
21:35And of course
21:36They weren't there
21:37Because we never gave them
21:38Any equipment
21:40Or gave them a nickel
21:41To buy equipment
21:41We found that he
21:43Had said that
21:45$350,000 was sent overseas
21:47When in fact
21:48We could find no trace
21:49That any of that
21:50Had been sent overseas
21:51That's what the FCC
21:53Began investigating
21:54At first
21:55The FCC handed the investigation
21:59To Larry Bernstein
22:00Bernstein was a real threat
22:02To Baker
22:03Because the FCC
22:04Had licensed PTL
22:06To run a TV station
22:07In Canton, Ohio
22:08If Bernstein found wrongdoing
22:10The FCC had powers
22:11To take away
22:12Baker's broadcasting license
22:14We immediately subpoenaed
22:16Thousands and thousands
22:17Of documents
22:18We subpoenaed
22:19Hundreds of hours
22:20Of the PTL club program
22:22And we subpoenaed
22:23The PTL format sheets
22:25Which told us
22:26Where every solicitation
22:28Of funds was
22:29On every program
22:30And we watched them all
22:32Baker was subpoenaed
22:33And compelled to give evidence
22:35Under oath
22:36In a closed hearing
22:37Altogether
22:38He spent 11 days
22:39On the stand
22:40The key evidence
22:41About the original allegations
22:43Were Reverend Baker's
22:46Solicitations
22:46Over the air
22:47Which he was
22:49Cross-examined on
22:50We literally showed him
22:51Each solicitation
22:52And asked him
22:53Questions about it
22:54Today I spent
22:56I'd guess
22:58Over six hours
22:58On the stand
22:59From what areas
23:01Were covered today
23:01In the hearings
23:02Mainly the missionary projects
23:09They talked about
23:12Korea
23:13It would seem to me
23:17That we talked mainly
23:18About Korea
23:19Asia for Christ
23:22For much of the day
23:24We've
23:25We just
23:27Go from one thing
23:29To another
23:29Just hour after hour
23:30After hour
23:30After hour
23:31Of answering questions
23:33And
23:33Until
23:37It seems like
23:39They're trying to trick me
23:41Trying to get me
23:42To say something
23:43And then
23:44After they've questioned
23:45All these things
23:46And they throw a paper
23:46For me to verify
23:47And it has the answer on it
23:49That they were trying
23:50To get me to state
23:51Transcripts still filed away
23:54Inside the FCC
23:55Show that Baker
23:56Was not an ideal witness
23:57The record shows
24:00That Baker's version
24:01Of events
24:02Was contradicted
24:03A total of 81 times
24:04He was refuted
24:06By other witnesses
24:0727 times
24:08By written evidence
24:1018 times
24:11And by his own testimony
24:1236 times
24:14In the past
24:16The FCC
24:17Has found perjury
24:18Sufficient grounds
24:19To revoke
24:20A broadcaster's license
24:21Baker tried to pin
24:23The blame
24:24On his former
24:24Vice President
24:25Robert Manzano
24:26I did something today
24:30That I've never done before
24:31I
24:34Betrayed
24:35A Christian brother
24:36Because the judge
24:40Ordered me to
24:41And it killed me
24:44I've never
24:47I will never
24:57I will never publicly
24:58Betray an enemy
24:59Let alone a friend
25:03The PTL television network
25:09Presents
25:10The PTL club
25:12The evidence
25:13Against PTL
25:15Was piling up
25:15Jim Baker
25:18Baker fought back
25:21With a weapon
25:22He understood best
25:23Welcome to the PTL club
25:25He was accusing
25:26The FCC
25:28Of being in league
25:29With the devil
25:29Welcome to the PTL club
25:32And saying
25:33That he was being
25:34Persecuted by the FCC
25:36Oh it's nice
25:37To have you here
25:38That we were out
25:39To get him
25:39Because the FCC
25:40Was anti-religion
25:42All the attorneys
25:43That represent PTL
25:44Have agreed
25:45That it is now
25:46Into a stage
25:47Of harassment
25:48Of the PTL television network
25:49The bureaucratic
25:51Backroom
25:53Playing around
25:54Harassment
25:55That has cost
25:56This ministry
25:57Over a quarter
25:58Of a million dollars
25:59We were the greatest
26:00Source of funds
26:02PTL ever had
26:04We rescued PTL
26:06From virtual bankruptcy
26:08Baker
26:09I was told
26:10Was able to raise
26:1022 million dollars
26:11Because he made it sound
26:12Like if it was
26:13If you didn't send me
26:15A hundred dollars
26:16Or five hundred dollars
26:17Or a thousand dollars
26:18The devil is going
26:19To win over Christ
26:20He needed all of this money
26:22To protect the cause
26:25Of freedom of religion
26:26What we want
26:27Is what every American wants
26:29A right to worship our God
26:32As we want to do
26:34We do not want this church
26:37Or any other church
26:39Destroyed
26:40Or intimidated
26:42By the government
26:44Meanwhile the FCC
26:56Had stopped taking evidence
26:58And Larry Bernstein
26:59Was writing up his report
27:00He finished it
27:02In December 1980
27:03We found scores
27:05Perhaps hundreds
27:06Of false statements
27:08Under oath
27:08By Jim Baker
27:09We found evidence
27:11Of people going into
27:13The PTL counting room
27:14And scooping money out
27:16Evidence that
27:18That Reverend Baker
27:20And others
27:21Had enriched themselves
27:22Personally
27:23Over
27:24Or with
27:25Money solicited
27:27For various religious purposes
27:28Frontline has studied
27:30Bernstein's report
27:31It is nothing
27:33If not thorough
27:34Every statement of fact
27:36Is backed up
27:37By a reference
27:38To a line
27:38In the transcripts
27:40Voluminous footnotes
27:43Detail the alleged
27:44Misstatements
27:45And inconsistencies
27:47In Baker's testimony
27:48Evidence of possible
27:50Perjury
27:50On his part
27:51At the end of 1980
28:03Political events
28:04Took a significant turn
28:05The newly elected
28:09President Ronald Reagan
28:10Had courted
28:11Fundamentalists
28:12Generally
28:12And religious
28:13Broadcasters
28:14In particular
28:15Thank you all
28:17Very much
28:18And thank you
28:19Brent Gustafson
28:19Ladies and gentlemen
28:21When I look out
28:22At your warm
28:22And caring faces
28:24I get a very
28:25Special feeling
28:26Like
28:27Being born again
28:28The new administration
28:31Changed the political
28:32Complexion
28:33Of Washington
28:34And a new man
28:35Was brought in
28:35To head up
28:36The FCC
28:37One of his first
28:38Symbolic gestures
28:39Was to start
28:40Videotaping
28:41The commission's
28:42Meetings
28:42A libertarian
28:44Conservative
28:44An avid deregulator
28:46And a passionate
28:47Believer in
28:48First amendment
28:48Rights
28:49Mark Fowler
28:50Felt that the FCC
28:51Had been biased
28:52Against religious
28:53Broadcasters
28:54I do think
28:55That there was a
28:55Feeling
28:56On the part
28:57Of some religious
28:57Broadcasters
28:58That for some
28:59Period of time
29:00There was a
29:02Discriminatory
29:03Attitude against
29:04Religious
29:05Broadcasters
29:05That they were
29:06Somehow treated
29:07More harshly
29:08That they weren't
29:10As legitimate
29:12As regular
29:13Broadcasters
29:14What I noticed
29:16With regard to
29:17PTL and with
29:18The report
29:18Was that for a
29:20Long time
29:20Nothing happened
29:21The report
29:22Was sent up
29:23To the
29:25Highest authority
29:26That the FCC
29:27Where it languished
29:28For quite a while
29:29Eventually
29:30Eventually I was
29:31Contacted by
29:32One of the
29:32Chairman's
29:33Assistants
29:33And asked
29:35To take
29:36Things out
29:36Of the report
29:37This is the
29:38First I've
29:39Heard of that
29:39I would
29:41Say two
29:42Things
29:42One
29:42It's false
29:43And two
29:44You should
29:45Ask Mr.
29:45Sharp
29:45Fowler's
29:47General
29:47Counselor
29:47At the FCC
29:48Steve Sharp
29:49Did receive
29:50A copy
29:50Of Bernstein's
29:51Report
29:52The report
29:57I mean I would
29:58Have to look
29:59At
29:59See a copy
30:01Of the final
30:02Report
30:02To be sure
30:02But I don't
30:03Believe there
30:03Were any
30:04Changes made
30:04In the report
30:05The only thing
30:06He would be saying
30:07I think would be
30:07That we went back
30:08And took the report
30:09And ordered him
30:10To then in effect
30:11Rewrite it
30:12Or re-edit it
30:12And that's even
30:14More scurrilous
30:15And false
30:15He was never told
30:19To rewrite it
30:19Or re-edit it
30:20Not by me
30:20Nor through
30:21Any other
30:22Intermediary
30:22That's just
30:23Not my style
30:24It is
30:25Absolutely a fact
30:26That through
30:27His staff
30:28The chairman
30:28Of the FCC
30:29Made it clear
30:30That my report
30:31Had to be
30:32Watered down
30:32I recall
30:34Raising a number
30:35Of questions
30:36With the report
30:36And
30:38Because
30:39I was not
30:41Pleased
30:42With the way
30:42It was written
30:43But the draft
30:45Copy of
30:45Bernstein's report
30:47Shows
30:47That only
30:48Nine passages
30:49Were re-written
30:50Or modified
30:51Far more
30:53Significantly
30:54134 sections
30:56Were deleted
30:57Bernstein says
31:00That what was
31:00Being lost
31:01Was content
31:02For example
31:0376 footnotes
31:05Detailing
31:05Numerous examples
31:06Of Baker's
31:07Alleged perjury
31:08Were cut
31:09According to
31:10Bernstein
31:11Sharp wanted
31:12His report
31:13Watered down
31:13And took
31:15The guts
31:15Out of it
31:15As far as
31:17Guts are concerned
31:18That's nonsense
31:18As far as
31:19Watering
31:20As I said
31:22I think that
31:23Some of the
31:23Editorial comments
31:24In there
31:24Were inappropriate
31:25They were not
31:26Supported by
31:26Evidence
31:27And they
31:28Justly deserve
31:29To be edited out
31:29But these
31:31Edits seem to
31:31Have weakened
31:32The report
31:32Even further
31:33For example
31:34When the
31:35Whole of
31:35Paragraph 72
31:36Was excised
31:37Language was
31:38Lost
31:39That explained
31:40How PTL
31:41Had done
31:41Nothing
31:41To supply
31:42Dr. Cho
31:43With equipment
31:43He'd been
31:44Promised for
31:45Eight months
31:46Without this
31:47Kind of signposting
31:48Only someone
31:49Very familiar
31:50With the
31:50Investigation
31:51Could follow
31:52The thrust
31:52Of the report
31:53There are
31:5433 deletions
31:56Like this
31:56We always
31:58Wanted to have
31:58The facts
31:59Come out
31:59We might
32:00Disagree with
32:01What we should
32:01Do with those
32:02Facts
32:02But that is
32:03Just simply
32:04False
32:04To say
32:05That I
32:06Ordered
32:06Steve Sharp
32:07And then
32:08He ordered
32:08The gentleman
32:11To go ahead
32:11And change
32:12Or water
32:12Down the
32:13Report
32:13In any
32:13Way
32:14Ann Jones
32:16An FCC
32:17Commissioner
32:17At the time
32:18Was unaware
32:19That the
32:19Report
32:20Had been
32:20Edited
32:20I've heard
32:22That since
32:22I had not
32:23Heard that
32:23Beforehand
32:24That is
32:26One of the
32:26Very unfortunate
32:28Indeed tragic
32:29Things that I
32:30Think happened
32:30At the FCC
32:31This videotape
32:33Shows the
32:34Seven commissioners
32:34On December
32:358th 1982
32:36The day they
32:38Discussed
32:38Bernstein's
32:39Report
32:39The FCC
32:41Will not
32:41Release the
32:42Videotape
32:43Of the
32:43Decisive
32:44Closed session
32:45That took
32:45Place later
32:46That same
32:46Day
32:47Four of the
32:49Seven commissioners
32:50Were expected
32:50To put Baker
32:51Through a full
32:51Public hearing
32:52And probably
32:53Take away
32:54His broadcasting
32:55License
32:55Chairman Fowler
32:57Preferred to
32:57Let PTL
32:58Sell off
32:59Its TV
32:59Station in
33:00Ohio
33:00And so
33:01Avoid the
33:02Time and
33:02Cost of
33:03A full
33:03Inquiry
33:04He was
33:05Backed by
33:06Sharp
33:06A commissioner
33:07By now
33:07And by
33:08James
33:08Quello
33:09But then
33:10Apparently
33:10A commissioner
33:11Changed sides
33:12The commissioner
33:13Who changed
33:14Her vote
33:15Was commissioner
33:16Mimi Dawson
33:17And what I
33:19Remember
33:19Almost as
33:21Vividly as
33:22Anything else
33:23Was that she
33:24Said nothing
33:25During the
33:25Entire debate
33:26She sat there
33:28And smiled
33:29Miss Dawson
33:32Has declined
33:32An interview
33:33With Frontline
33:34And I remember
33:36Chairman Fowler
33:37And commissioner
33:38Sharp
33:38Rather
33:41Blithely
33:42Defending
33:43The propriety
33:45And the rectitude
33:46Of what they
33:46Were doing
33:47You did get
33:48A sense of
33:48Something just
33:49Being sort
33:49Of ramrodded
33:50Through
33:51Which
33:52I think
33:54Raises
33:54Legitimate
33:55Questions
33:55At least
33:56About why
33:58I remember
33:59Commissioner
33:59Rivera
34:00Pounding
34:00The table
34:01At the
34:01In his
34:02Outrage
34:03At the end
34:04Of a stormy
34:05Session
34:05Henry Rivera
34:06Wrote chairman
34:07Fowler
34:07A stinging
34:08Dissent
34:09In it
34:10He and
34:11Commissioner
34:11Fogarty
34:12Accused him
34:13Of bowing
34:13To political
34:14Pressure
34:15I would hate
34:17To think
34:17That political
34:18Pressure
34:19Or any
34:20Other kind
34:20Of pressure
34:21Changed
34:22Anyone's
34:23Mind
34:24Or influenced
34:24Them to vote
34:25In a way
34:25That was
34:25Contrary to
34:26Commission policy
34:26But the
34:27Tone of
34:28The dissent
34:29Of two of
34:30My fellow
34:30Commissioners
34:31Clearly implied
34:32That they felt
34:32That something
34:33Untoward
34:34Had taken place
34:34That somehow
34:35The commission
34:36Had been
34:37Co-opted
34:38In its
34:39Decision making
34:40That case
34:41Was decided
34:42On its merits
34:43There were no
34:44Discussions about
34:44What does this
34:45Do to
34:46People on
34:47The religious
34:47Rights
34:47So called
34:48Who might
34:48Support the
34:49President
34:49Again the case
34:51Admittedly was
34:52A close case
34:52And I understand
34:53How Larry and
34:54Others would feel
34:55That the commission
34:56Made the wrong
34:57Decision
34:57Larry Bernstein
34:59Was so disillusioned
35:00By a decision
35:01He thought
35:01Let Baker
35:02Off the hook
35:03That he quit
35:03Government service
35:04After the FCC
35:06Let him go
35:08In the face
35:09Of a mountain
35:10Of apparent
35:11Misconduct
35:11He must have
35:13Felt that he
35:13Could do anything
35:14And God
35:15Himself
35:15Wouldn't stop
35:16Him
35:16They're
35:24Grading out
35:25Down here
35:26Right now
35:26And this
35:27Whole hillside
35:28Has to come
35:28Down to make
35:29Way for this
35:30Roadbed
35:30This will be
35:32The entryway
35:34To the
35:34Great auditorium
35:37Baker was free
35:42To raise
35:42Over a hundred
35:43Million dollars
35:44To build
35:44Heritage USA
35:45More than
35:46Ten million
35:46Would find
35:47Its way
35:47Into the
35:48Baker's pockets
35:49Though the
35:51IRS and
35:52Justice Department
35:52Had seen
35:53The FCC report
35:54They also
35:55Took no action
35:55When you give
36:02Your one thousand
36:03Dollar gift
36:04You'll receive
36:05A special
36:05Membership card
36:06He wanted
36:07The finest
36:08Things
36:09He may have
36:10Had difficulty
36:11At times
36:12Identifying what
36:13They were
36:13But he wanted
36:14The best
36:15And I went
36:16Out and took
36:17A tour of
36:18Heritage with
36:19Jim as my
36:19Guide
36:20We went to
36:21The hotel
36:22Which was then
36:22Under construction
36:23And he was
36:24Very proud of
36:25A couple of
36:25Things and we
36:26Went into the
36:27Bathroom and he
36:28Said you see
36:28Those showers
36:29What's different
36:30About them
36:30I couldn't figure
36:31Out and I
36:32Said I don't
36:32Know Jim
36:33He said no
36:34Grout they
36:35Have no grout
36:36He said I've
36:39Hated grout
36:40It grows mold
36:42In between the
36:43Little tiles and
36:43You have to scrub
36:44It off with a
36:45Toothbrush and I
36:46Have vowed that
36:47We are not going
36:48To have a hotel
36:50At heritage USA
36:51That has a grout
36:53Problem
36:53But we're kind
36:54Of taking you
36:55Into our secret
36:55Hideaway
36:56Through the years
36:57There certainly
36:57Was a change
36:59That came in
36:59Jim and Tammy
37:00As the affluence
37:04Increased they
37:06Were buying bigger
37:07And better houses
37:08Not very many
37:10People get a chance
37:11To show you
37:11Their bedroom
37:12But you never
37:14Know what you're
37:14Going to see at
37:15PTL
37:16The ministry
37:17Was taking care
37:17Of fixing them
37:18Up
37:18Tammy's out
37:19In the kitchen
37:20In the kitchen
37:20Now
37:21As youngsters
37:24They grew up
37:25With practically
37:25Nothing
37:26As they began
37:27To live a more
37:28Affluent lifestyle
37:30It just escalated
37:32Favorite one
37:33Of the house
37:33All right
37:34Y'all
37:34Come on
37:34Get in the car
37:35Here
37:35And I'll drive
37:37Jim is a lover
37:38Of good cars
37:39Nothing wrong
37:40With that
37:41Except that
37:42It became
37:42Exorbitant
37:43And that there
37:45Were many cars
37:46That were very
37:48Costly cars
37:49There seemed
37:49To be no limit
37:51As to how much
37:51Could be spent
37:52On this type
37:53Of thing
37:54I don't think
37:55There's any more
37:55Beautiful place
37:57Than the desert
37:57Tammy are you
38:00Ready to go
38:01Yes
38:02We're ready to roll
38:03Come on in
38:04Another time
38:05We were going
38:06Through his wardrobe
38:07In his dressing room
38:08And he opened
38:09Up his closets
38:10And there were
38:10Racks of suits
38:12Forty
38:12Fifty silk shirts
38:13Lots of different
38:14Colors
38:15Gold fixtures
38:16When he was
38:17Asked about him
38:18He said
38:18God does not
38:19Like junk
38:20God doesn't
38:22Want us to
38:22Turn back now
38:23We've come
38:23Too far
38:24By faith
38:25Twenty
38:27Four million
38:28Dollars
38:29Has already
38:30Been paid
38:30Out there
38:31For the
38:32Greatest
38:32Christian
38:33Center
38:33Retreat
38:34Center
38:34Conference
38:35Center
38:35Never
38:36Anything like
38:37It
38:38Ever been
38:38Built in
38:38History
38:39Now
38:40What do
38:40You do
38:41Well
38:44When in
38:45Doubt
38:45Build something
38:47More
38:47From 1980
38:51You could see
38:51A change
38:52In the
38:52Programming
38:53You could see
38:54It going
38:55Away to
38:56More
38:56Fundraising
38:57And less
38:58Ministry
38:58Of course
38:59We knew
39:00That it
39:00Had to be
39:01That way
39:01Because we
39:02Needed money
39:02The bigger
39:03You get
39:03The more
39:04Money it
39:04Takes
39:05To run
39:05Well
39:06Thirty
39:06Thousand
39:07More
39:07Lifetime
39:08Members
39:08Will bring
39:09In
39:09Thirty
39:10Million
39:10Dollars
39:11I heard
39:12Jim
39:12Himself
39:13Say
39:13I hope
39:14I hadn't
39:14Created
39:14A monster
39:15The nine
39:16Million
39:16We need
39:16Let's
39:17Just round
39:17It out
39:17Because my
39:18Math is
39:18Not real
39:18Good
39:18We'll
39:19Just round
39:20It
39:20Ten
39:20Million
39:20Dollars
39:21To
39:21Finish
39:21The
39:21Grand
39:22We've
39:23Come
39:24This
39:24Far
39:24By
39:24Faith
39:25Why
39:25Can't
39:25We
39:26Finish
39:26It
39:26And
39:27See
39:27A
39:27Miracle
39:27In
39:28Thirty
39:35Heritage
39:36USA
39:36That
39:37Tammy
39:37Made
39:38The
39:38Statement
39:38To
39:38Susan
39:39To
39:39Me
39:39One
39:39Day
39:39That
39:40Heritage
39:42USA
39:42Has
39:43Become
39:43Jim's
39:44Mistress
39:44She
39:46Even
39:46Made
39:46The
39:46Statement
39:46I
39:47Wish
39:47It
39:47Were
39:47Another
39:48Woman
39:48She
39:49Said
39:49I
39:49Could
39:49Compete
39:50With
39:50That
39:50Of
39:51Course
39:52There
39:52Had
39:52Been
39:52Another
39:52Woman
39:53And
39:53Her
39:53Name
39:54Was
39:54Jessica
39:54Hahn
39:55Baker
39:56Might
39:56Have
39:56Survived
39:56The
39:57Sex
39:57Scandal
39:57But
39:58He
39:58Had
39:58Also
39:58Used
39:59Church
39:59Funds
40:00To
40:00Try
40:00To
40:00Buy
40:00Her
40:01Silence
40:01The
40:05Bakers
40:06Had
40:06No
40:06Choice
40:06But
40:07To
40:07Go
40:07On
40:07TV
40:07And
40:08Say
40:08Farewell
40:09To
40:09Their
40:09Followers
40:10Say
40:10Hello
40:11Hello
40:12Everyone
40:13Hello
40:14The
40:15Reverend
40:15Jerry
40:15Falwell
40:16Came
40:16To
40:16The
40:16Rescue
40:17Baker
40:17Had
40:17Asked
40:18Him
40:18To
40:18Act
40:18As
40:19A
40:19Caretaker
40:19Until
40:19The
40:20Scandal
40:20Blew
40:20Itself
40:21Out
40:21But
40:21Before
40:22Long
40:22Falwell
40:23Was
40:23Telling
40:23The
40:23Press
40:24He
40:24Would
40:24Not
40:24Hand
40:24The
40:24Ministry
40:25Back
40:25Because
40:26The
40:26Sex
40:26Scandal
40:27And
40:27The
40:27Hush
40:27Money
40:27Were
40:28Only
40:28The
40:28Tip
40:28Of
40:29The
40:29Iceberg
40:29Our
40:30Board
40:30Unanimously
40:30Cut
40:31Off
40:31All
40:31The
40:31Hush
40:31Money
40:32I
40:33Could
40:33Not
40:33In
40:33Good
40:34Conscience
40:34Could
40:35Not
40:35Allow
40:36One
40:36Penny
40:36Of
40:37The
40:37Partners
40:37Contributions
40:38To
40:38This
40:38Ministry
40:39Continue
40:40To
40:40Go
40:40To
40:41Cover
40:41Up
40:41Something
40:41And
40:42Individually
40:42Something
40:43The
40:43Ministry
40:43Had
40:44Nothing
40:44To
40:44Do
40:44With
40:45I
40:46Did
40:46Talk
40:47With
40:47Her
40:47I
40:49Was
40:49Probably
40:50Two
40:51Or
40:51Three
40:51Weeks
40:51Into
40:52The
40:52Management
40:53Of
40:53PTL
40:54When
40:54Many
40:55Many
40:55Different
40:56Stories
40:57Began
40:57To
40:57Surface
40:57First
40:58Of
40:58All
40:58That
40:59The
40:59Jessica
40:59Hahn
40:59Story
41:00That
41:00He
41:01Had
41:01Told
41:01Me
41:01Was
41:01Not
41:01True
41:01Further
41:03That
41:04There
41:04Were
41:04Other
41:04Moral
41:05Problems
41:05Serious
41:06Ones
41:06Alleged
41:07Both
41:08Heterosexual
41:09And
41:10Homosexual
41:10And
41:12Beyond
41:12These
41:12Alleged
41:13Improprieties
41:14We
41:14Began
41:14To
41:15Find
41:15That
41:16Financially
41:16What
41:18The
41:18World
41:18Now
41:18Knows
41:19Had
41:20Happened
41:20That
41:20Reverend
41:21Baker
41:21Had
41:21Used
41:21The
41:21Ministry
41:22For
41:22Personal
41:22Profiting
41:23And
41:25Having
41:25Heard
41:26So
41:26Very
41:26Much
41:27Our
41:27Board
41:27Came
41:27To
41:27The
41:27Conclusion
41:28Unanimously
41:29That
41:30Reverend
41:30Baker
41:30Must
41:31Not
41:31Come
41:31Back
41:31Here
41:32Meanwhile
41:34Falwell
41:35Flew
41:35In
41:35His
41:35Right
41:35Hand
41:36Man
41:36Jerry
41:36Nims
41:37To
41:37Examine
41:37Baker's
41:38Books
41:38Well
41:39Well
41:39I
41:39Think
41:39He
41:40Knew
41:40The
41:40End
41:40Was
41:40Coming
41:41And
41:41He
41:41Was
41:41Getting
41:42As
41:42Much
41:42As
41:42He
41:42Could
41:43In
41:43The
41:43Year
41:44Before
41:44He
41:44Left
41:44He
41:45Paid
41:45Himself
41:451.9
41:47Million
41:47Dollars
41:48Now
41:48That
41:48Was
41:48At
41:48A
41:48Point
41:49In
41:49Time
41:49When
41:50By
41:50His
41:50Own
41:51Words
41:51And
41:51Testimony
41:52He
41:52Knew
41:52That
41:53Ministry
41:53Was
41:53Against
41:54The
41:54Wall
41:54And
41:55Was
41:55Ready
41:55To
41:56Collapse
41:56Most
41:57Of
41:57That
41:57Money
41:57Was
41:57In
41:58Bonuses
41:58If
41:59He
41:59Had
41:59Done
41:59That
41:59In
41:59A
42:00Profit
42:00Entity
42:00He
42:01Would
42:01Have
42:01Hung
42:02Him
42:02By
42:02His
42:02Heels
42:02What
42:03Surprised
42:04Nims
42:04Was
42:04That
42:05The
42:05IRS
42:05Had
42:06Been
42:06Auditing
42:06Baker
42:06Since
42:071983
42:08The
42:09Taxman
42:09Had
42:09Found
42:10Excessive
42:10Compensation
42:11Worth
42:12More
42:12Than
42:13$150,000
42:14In
42:141981
42:15Just
42:16Under
42:16$300,000
42:18In
42:1882
42:18And
42:19Well
42:19Over
42:20Half
42:20A
42:20Million
42:20In
42:2183
42:21Still
42:22The
42:22IRS
42:23Did
42:23Nothing
42:23Hundreds
42:24Of
42:24Thousands
42:25Of
42:25Dollars
42:25I
42:25Remember
42:26A
42:26Report
42:26From
42:261981
42:27To
42:271983
42:27With
42:28The
42:28IRS
42:28And
42:29They
42:29Had
42:29Documented
42:30At
42:30That
42:30Period
42:30Of
42:30Time
42:31So
42:31This
42:31Is
42:31Early
42:32On
42:32Over
42:33$850,000
42:35In
42:36Undocumented
42:37Expenses
42:37On
42:37The
42:38Credit
42:38Cards
42:38And
42:38It
42:38Got
42:39Worse
42:39And
42:39Worse
42:39Free
42:40Loans
42:41Free
42:41Homes
42:41Free
42:42Cars
42:42Took
42:43The
42:43Baker's
42:43Total
42:44Take
42:44From
42:44$360,000
42:45In
42:461981
42:46To
42:47$650,000
42:48In
42:4982
42:49And
42:50Finally
42:50In
42:5083
42:51To
42:51One
42:51And
42:52A
42:52Half
42:52Million
42:52Dollars
42:53Jerry
42:54Falwell
42:54Wonders
42:54Why
42:55The
42:55IRS
42:55Did
42:56So
42:56Little
42:56For
42:56So
42:57Long
42:57I
42:57Can
42:57Only
42:58Say
42:58That
42:58The
42:58Internal
42:58Revenue
42:59Service
42:59Has
42:59Been
42:59Very
43:00Very
43:00Slow
43:00Six
43:02Years
43:02In
43:03Coming
43:03To
43:03Conclusions
43:04I
43:05Am
43:05Not
43:06In
43:06A
43:06Position
43:06To
43:06Know
43:06If
43:07They
43:07Procrastinated
43:07Or
43:08Not
43:08If
43:08This
43:08Is
43:08The
43:08Normal
43:09Procedure
43:09Jerry
43:11Falwell
43:11Was
43:11One
43:12Of
43:12The
43:12Televangelists
43:13Called
43:13To
43:13Testify
43:14Before
43:14Congress
43:15Last
43:15October
43:16With
43:17Extreme
43:17Politeness
43:18The
43:18Politicians
43:19Assured
43:19The
43:19Preachers
43:20That
43:20They
43:20Did
43:20Not
43:20Want
43:21To
43:21Step
43:21On
43:21Their
43:21First
43:22Amendment
43:22Rights
43:23Still
43:24In
43:24The
43:24Light
43:24Of
43:24The
43:24PTL
43:25Scandal
43:25They
43:26Wanted
43:26To
43:26Know
43:26How
43:27The
43:27Public
43:27Could
43:27Be
43:27Sure
43:28That
43:28Their
43:28Donations
43:29Were
43:29Being
43:29Put
43:30To
43:30Proper
43:30Use
43:31Some
43:32Of
43:32The
43:32Toughest
43:33Questions
43:33Were
43:33Put
43:34To
43:34The
43:34Newly
43:34Appointed
43:35Commissioner
43:35Of
43:36The
43:36IRS
43:36Lawrence
43:37Gibbs
43:38The
43:39Internal
43:39Revenue
43:39Service
43:40Did
43:41Submit
43:42An
43:42Internal
43:42Audit
43:43Recommending
43:44That
43:44PTL
43:45Tax
43:46Exempt
43:47Be
43:48Revoked
43:49That
43:49Was
43:50Made
43:50In
43:501985
43:51And
43:52Here
43:53It
43:53Is
43:5387
43:53And
43:54Nobody
43:54Knows
43:54What
43:55Was
43:55The
43:55Outcome
43:56Of
43:56That
43:56Recommendation
43:57Would
43:58You
43:58Sit
43:58On
43:58It
43:58For
43:58Six
43:59Years
43:59I
44:00Would
44:01Neither
44:01Sit
44:01On
44:01It
44:01Nor
44:02Would
44:02I
44:02Deny
44:03The
44:03Organization
44:04The
44:04Rights
44:04That
44:04It
44:05Has
44:05Under
44:05The
44:05Law
44:06To
44:06Pursue
44:06Its
44:07Remedies
44:07With
44:08The
44:08Procedural
44:08Safeguards
44:09That
44:09They
44:09Entitled
44:12A
44:13Strong
44:13Signal
44:13To
44:14These
44:14TV
44:14Ministers
44:15To
44:15Do
44:16Any
44:16And
44:16Everything
44:16That
44:17They
44:17Want
44:17To
44:17Is
44:18This
44:18A
44:18Typical
44:19Case
44:19How
44:19Long
44:20Do
44:20You
44:20Take
44:20To
44:20Make
44:20An
44:20Audit
44:21On
44:21A
44:21Normal
44:21TV
44:22Ministry
44:23It
44:23Is
44:23Only
44:24After
44:24It
44:24Comes
44:25To
44:25Our
44:25Attention
44:26In
44:26A
44:26Credible
44:26Way
44:27From
44:27The
44:28Public
44:28That
44:28We
44:28Can
44:29Even
44:29Begin
44:29An
44:29Audit
44:30Do
44:30You
44:30See
44:31Where
44:31Filing
44:31An
44:32Annual
44:32Report
44:33By
44:33Churches
44:34Would
44:34Be
44:34In
44:34Violation
44:35Of
44:36The
44:36Constitutional
44:37Right
44:38Of
44:38Separation
44:38Of
44:39Church
44:39And
44:39State
44:39I
44:40Have
44:40Assumed
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44:41That
44:42That
44:42Was
44:42The
44:42Reason
44:43Certainly
44:43One
44:44Of
44:44The
44:44Prominent
44:44Reasons
44:45For
44:45Specifically
44:45Excluding
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44:46By
44:46Statute
44:47In
44:471969
44:48I
44:49Had
44:49The
44:49Feeling
44:49Personally
44:50That
44:50Both
44:50The
44:50Congress
44:51And
44:51Internal
44:51Revenue
44:52Services
44:52Look
44:52The
44:53Other
44:53Way
44:53On
44:53A
44:53Lot
44:53Of
44:54These
44:54Audits
44:54But
44:54Wouldn't
44:55You
44:55Know
44:55If
44:55They
44:56Are
44:56On
44:56National
44:56Television
44:57Raising
45:04Forum
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45:05All
45:06Organizations
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45:07To
45:07File
45:07Some
45:07Kind
45:08Of
45:08Forum
45:08What
45:09In
45:09God's
45:09Name
45:10Could
45:10Be
45:10Even
45:11Remotely
45:11Considered
45:12A
45:12Violation
45:12Of
45:13The
45:13Constitutional
45:14Rights
45:14Of
45:14Churches
45:15To
45:15Say
45:15That
45:16They
45:16Should
45:16File
45:17An
45:17Annual
45:17Report
45:18As
45:18To
45:18How
45:19Much
45:19Money
45:19They
45:20Got
45:20And
45:20What
45:20They
45:20Did
45:21With
45:21It
45:21What
45:21We
45:22Run
45:22Into
45:22In
45:22This
45:22Area
45:23Are
45:23The
45:23Competing
45:24Considerations
45:25Of
45:25The
45:26Tax
45:27Law
45:27Versus
45:28The
45:28Constitutional
45:29Limitations
45:29On
45:30The
45:30Establishment
45:31And
45:31Free
45:32Exercise
45:33Of
45:33Religion
45:33Just
45:34Down
45:34The
45:35Road
45:35From
45:35Congress
45:35Are
45:36The
45:36Headquarters
45:36Of
45:36The
45:37Moral
45:37Majority
45:37Jerry
45:38Falwell
45:39Handed
45:39Over
45:39Its
45:40Presidency
45:40To
45:41Jerry
45:41Nims
45:41Last
45:42Fall
45:42By
45:43Then
45:43Both
45:43Men
45:43Had
45:44Quit
45:44The
45:44Board
45:44Of
45:44PTL
45:45In
45:45Disgust
45:46But
45:47Nims
45:47Remains
45:47Critical
45:48Of
45:48The
45:48Government's
45:49Lack
45:49Of
45:49Action
45:49In
45:50The
45:50PTL
45:51Affair
45:51I
45:52Am
45:52Troubled
45:53By
45:53The
45:53Government's
45:54Role
45:59See
45:59What
45:59The
45:59Future
46:00Holds
46:01But
46:02As
46:02Far
46:02As
46:02Going
46:03Back
46:03To
46:0381
46:0482
46:05And
46:0683
46:06What
46:08I
46:08Looked
46:09At
46:09Certainly
46:10Bore
46:11Out
46:11The
46:11Need
46:12To
46:12Investigate
46:13The
46:14IRS
46:14Was
46:15Not
46:15The
46:15Only
46:15Federal
46:16Agency
46:16Whose
46:17Reluctance
46:17To
46:17Investigate
46:18PTL
46:19Gave
46:19Dr.
46:20Nims
46:20Cause
46:20For
46:21Concern
46:21In
46:22The
46:22Summer
46:23Of
46:231987
46:23Months
46:24After
46:25The
46:25PTL
46:25Scandal
46:26Had
46:26Begun
46:26To
46:27Make
46:27Nationwide
46:27Headlines
46:28The
46:28Department
46:29Of
46:29Justice
46:29Was
46:30Dragging
46:30Its
46:30Feet
46:31Too
46:31According
46:32To
46:32The
46:32Former
46:32U.S.
46:33Attorney
46:33In
46:33Asheville
46:34Charles
46:34Brewer
46:35Anything
46:36I say
46:36Concerning
46:37Why
46:37The
46:37Justice
46:37Department
46:38Treated
46:38The
46:38PTL
46:39Investigation
46:40Differently
46:41From
46:41The
46:41Way
46:41It's
46:41Treated
46:42Other
46:42Criminal
46:43Matters
46:43During
46:43My
46:44Six
46:44Years
46:44Would
46:45Be
46:45Really
46:45A
46:46Matter
46:46Of
46:46My
46:46Speculating
46:47And
46:47I
46:47Feel
46:48That
46:48A
46:48Possible
46:48Reason
46:49May
46:49Relate
46:50To
46:50The
46:50Political
46:51Aspects
46:52Of
46:53The
46:58To
46:58Be
46:58A
46:59Very
46:59Important
47:00Component
47:00Of
47:01Republican
47:01Presidential
47:02Politics
47:03Brewer
47:04Himself
47:04Is
47:05A
47:05Supporter
47:05Of
47:05Ronald
47:06Reagan
47:06And
47:06Stallwart
47:07Of
47:07The
47:07North
47:07Carolina
47:08Republican
47:08Party
47:09When
47:10The
47:11Scandal
47:11Broke
47:11In
47:111987
47:12He
47:13Found
47:13His
47:13Phone
47:13Ringing
47:14As
47:14Press
47:15And
47:15Federal
47:15Investigators
47:16Asked
47:16Him
47:16When
47:17Someone
47:17Was
47:17Going
47:17To
47:18Do
47:18Something
47:18But
47:19Before
47:19He
47:20Could
47:20Start
47:20An
47:20Investigation
47:21He
47:21Got
47:21A
47:21Phone
47:22Call
47:22From
47:22The
47:23Justice
47:23Department
47:24In
47:24Washington
47:24I
47:25Never
47:25Been
47:26Contacted
47:26By
47:27The
47:27Department
47:28In
47:28Regard
47:28To
47:28An
47:28Investigation
47:29Typically
47:30The
47:31Department
47:31Will
47:31Be
47:32In
47:32Significant
47:34Matters
47:34When
47:34You
47:35Talk
47:35About
47:35Whether
47:35There
47:35Be
47:35A
47:36Prosecution
47:36Or
47:36Not
47:37But
47:37I
47:38Was
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47:39Contacted
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47:40Regard
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47:41Investigation
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47:44The
47:45How
47:45Level
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47:45Which
47:46The
47:47Contact
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47:51From
47:51Deputy
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47:53Burns
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47:56A
47:56Meeting
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47:57The
47:57Justice
47:57Department
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47:59PTL
47:59Activities
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48:01And
48:01South
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48:02Brewer
48:03Thought
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48:03Might
48:03Be
48:03Some
48:04Question
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48:07Real
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48:09Investigation
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48:13Investigation
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48:18Table
48:19Everybody
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48:24My
48:25Position
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48:27Investigation
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48:31The
48:31Meeting
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48:32Department
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48:34On
48:34PTL's
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48:35Amendment
48:35Rights
48:36They
48:36They
48:36Were
48:36Michael
48:37Derny
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48:37The
48:37Tax
48:38Division
48:38And
48:39Vinton
48:39D
48:39Lied
48:40The
48:40U.S.
48:40Attorney
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48:41Columbia
48:41South
48:42Carolina
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48:44To
48:44Have
48:44An
48:44Investigation
48:45To
48:45Determine
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48:46Anything
48:47To
48:47Prosecute
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48:48Whether
48:48There's
48:48Any
48:48Potential
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48:49Anything
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48:50You
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48:50The
48:51Position
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48:51Investigate
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48:52You'll
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48:54All
48:55Of
48:55The
48:55Coverage
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48:58Media
48:59Concerning
48:59This
49:00That
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49:01The
49:01World
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49:03It
49:03Be
49:03An
49:03Investigation
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49:04Shock
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49:07That
49:07Time
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49:08Part
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49:09PTL
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49:13Enforce
49:13The
49:14Law
49:14And
49:15I
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49:16One
49:16Government
49:16Official
49:17That
49:17Shall
49:17Remain
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49:18And
49:20I
49:20Was
49:20Just
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49:20An
49:20Analogy
49:21I
49:21Said
49:21I
49:22I
49:22A
49:22Citizen
49:23A
49:24Friend
49:24And
49:24You're
49:25The
49:25Policeman
49:25And
49:25I
49:25Think
49:26I
49:26Just
49:26Witnessed
49:26A
49:26Bank
49:27Robbery
49:27You're
49:31The
49:31Cop
49:31What
49:33Are
49:33You
49:33Going
49:33To
49:33Do
49:33About
49:34It
49:34And
49:35Nims
49:36Was
49:37Accusing
49:37The
49:37Department
49:38Of
49:38Justice
49:38Of
49:38Dragging
49:39Its
49:39Feet
49:39In
49:39The
49:39Matter
49:40He
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49:41A
49:41Federal
49:42Criminal
49:42Investigation
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49:43I
49:43Thought
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49:43The
49:44PTL
49:44Who
49:44In
49:45The
49:45Eyes
49:45Of
49:45The
49:45Law
49:46Would
49:46Be
49:46Consider
49:46The
49:47Victim
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49:48For
49:48It
49:48Publicly
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49:49The
49:49Media
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49:50It
49:50And
49:50The
49:50Federal
49:50Investigative
49:51Agencies
49:51Asking
49:52For
49:52It
49:52That
49:53The
49:53Department
49:53Would
49:54Have
49:55No
49:55Choice
49:55But
49:55To
49:56Authorize
49:58A
49:58Criminal
49:58Investigation
49:59Into
49:59These
49:59Allegations
50:00By
50:01Now
50:01Brewer
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50:03Second
50:03Meeting
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50:04Washington
50:04In
50:05Charlotte
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50:07FBI
50:07IRS
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50:09Postal
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50:10Their
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50:13Got
50:13Another
50:13Phone
50:13Call
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50:14Department
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50:15This
50:17Time
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50:18That
50:18Any
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50:19Federal
50:19Investigations
50:20Would
50:20Be
50:20Based
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50:21In
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50:22Which
50:22Is
50:22A
50:22Short
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50:23Heritage
50:24USA
50:24But
50:2580
50:25Miles
50:25Away
50:26In
50:26Columbia
50:27South
50:27Carolina
50:28Most
50:29Of
50:29The
50:29Federal
50:29Investigative
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50:30Are
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50:31In
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50:32The
50:32Tax
50:33Audit
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50:34On
50:34Was
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50:35The
50:35IRS
50:36Out
50:36Of
50:36North
50:37Carolina
50:37The
50:38South
50:38Carolina
50:38IRS
50:39Had
50:39Nothing
50:39To
50:39Do
50:39With
50:40It
50:40At
50:40All
50:40As
50:40I
50:40Understand
50:41It
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50:42Carolina
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50:44Not
50:44Had
50:44Any
50:44Involvement
50:45And
50:45Brewer's
50:46Office
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50:46Not
50:46To
50:46Have
50:47Any
50:47Involvement
50:47Either
50:48The
50:49PTL
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50:50Would
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50:51Lide
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50:52Michael
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50:54Struck
50:54Me
50:54As
50:54Being
50:55Unusual
50:55When
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50:56Assign
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50:57Investigation
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50:59To
50:59The
50:59Two
51:00Entities
51:00That
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51:00Not
51:00Want
51:08Grand
51:09Jury
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51:09Hearing
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51:10The
51:10Department
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51:11Justice
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51:12Comment
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51:13Brewer's
51:13Allegations
51:14Neither
51:14Can
51:15The
51:15IRS
51:15Which
51:16Is
51:16Now
51:16Seeking
51:16To
51:17Recover
51:1755
51:18Million
51:18Dollars
51:18From
51:19PTL
51:19And
51:20Almost
51:2010
51:20Million
51:21Dollars
51:21From
51:21The
51:21Bakers
51:22Personally
51:22But
51:23Would
51:23Either
51:24Agency
51:24Be
51:24Doing
51:25Anything
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51:26It
51:26Not
51:26Been
51:26For
51:26The
51:27Jessica
51:27Hahn
51:27Scandal
51:28It's
51:29A
51:29Question
51:29That
51:29Causes
51:29Concern
51:30For
51:30Both
51:30Conservatives
51:31And
51:31Liberals
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51:32As
51:34We've
51:34Come
51:34To
51:34See
51:35The
51:35Amount
51:35Of
51:35Foot
51:35Dragging
51:36There
51:36Was
51:36In
51:36This
51:37Whole
51:37PTL
51:37Affair
51:38By
51:38Government
51:39Agencies
51:40I
51:40Think
51:41That
51:41Is
51:42A
51:42Scandal
51:42In
51:42It
51:42It
51:44Would
51:44Appear
51:45There
51:45Was
51:45There
51:45Was
51:45Great
51:46Reluctance
51:47To
51:47Move
51:47In
51:47A
51:47Situation
51:48That
51:48Cried
51:48Out
51:49For
51:49Government
51:50Action
51:50I
51:51Think
51:51There
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51:51A
51:51Difficulty
51:52And
51:53That
51:54Is
51:54The
51:54Separation
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51:56Church
51:56And
51:57State
51:57In
51:58A
51:58Curious
51:58Way
51:59Working
51:59To
52:00Protect
52:00Jim
52:02Baker
52:02And
52:02His
52:03Associates
52:03I
52:04Think
52:05The
52:05Government
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52:05Reluctant
52:06To
52:06Move
52:07In
52:07To
52:07What
52:08They
52:08Perceived
52:08Was
52:08A
52:08Church
52:09Net
52:10Effect
52:10Of
52:10What
52:10The
52:11Government
52:12Did
52:12Was
52:13To
52:14Instill
52:15Increased
52:16Confidence
52:17In
52:17Jim
52:18Baker
52:18And
52:18PTL
52:19That
52:19They
52:19Could
52:20Make
52:20False
52:20Solicitations
52:21For
52:22Money
52:22Over
52:22The
52:22Air
52:23Thus
52:24Bamboozling
52:25Many
52:26Thousands
52:27Of
52:27Innocent
52:28People
52:28Out
52:28Of
52:29A
52:29Great
52:29Deal
52:29Of
52:29Money
52:30And
52:30That
52:30That
52:31Is
52:31An
52:31Awful
52:31Wrong
52:32Thing
52:32That
52:32Should
52:32Never
52:33Have
52:33Been
52:33Done
52:33But
52:35Despite
52:36Everything
52:36There
52:37Are
52:37Those
52:37Who
52:38Still
52:38Believe
52:38Good
52:40Afternoon
52:40Bring
52:40Bakers
52:41Back
52:41Club
52:41May
52:41I
52:41Help
52:42You
52:42Yes
52:43Just
52:45Outside
52:45The
52:45Gates
52:46Of
52:46Heritage
52:46USA
52:47Members
52:47Of
52:48The
52:48Bring
52:48Bakers
52:49Back
52:49Club
52:49Reach
52:50Back
52:50To
52:50What
52:51Jim
52:51And
52:51Tammy
52:51Once
52:52Meant
52:52To
52:52Them
52:53Yes
52:55They
52:56Forgive
52:56Them
52:56Their
52:56Sins
52:57And
52:58Try
52:58To
52:58Keep
52:58Their
52:58Faith
52:59Tammy
53:00Blessed
53:00Me
53:00So
53:01Much
53:01I
53:01Don't
53:01Care
53:01What
53:02They
53:02Say
53:02About
53:02Her
53:02Mascara
53:03Running
53:03Down
53:04Her
53:04Face
53:04I
53:06Mean
53:07She
53:07Was
53:07Sincere
53:08In
53:08What
53:08She
53:08Said
53:09And
53:09I
53:10Just
53:11Loved
53:11Her
53:11The
53:23Minute
53:23We
53:23Drew
53:23On
53:24The
53:24Grounds
53:24It
53:24Was
53:24Like
53:25Going
53:26To
53:26Heaven
53:27And
53:28You
53:28Just
53:28Felt
53:28Like
53:29You
53:29Were
53:29Just
53:29Lifted
53:29Right
53:30Up
53:30You
53:31Were
53:31That
53:31Way
53:31The
53:31Whole
53:32Time
53:32You
53:32Walked
53:33Around
53:33And
53:33You
53:33Weren't
53:34Even
53:34Touching
53:34The
53:34Ground
53:34Hardly
53:35Well
53:52First
53:52Place
53:53I
53:53Think
53:53The
53:53Lord
53:53Built
53:54It
53:54But
53:54He
53:54Gives
53:54Jim
53:55Baker
53:55A
53:55Vision
53:55And
53:57When
53:57Jim
53:57Baker
53:58Built
53:58This
53:58He
53:59Built
53:59With
53:59Christian
54:00Families
54:00Where
54:01They
54:01Could
54:01Come
54:01I
54:05Still
54:05Love
54:05Jim
54:05And
54:05Tammy
54:06And
54:07I
54:07I'm
54:07Sure
54:08The
54:08Lord
54:08Will
54:08Work
54:08Everything
54:09Out
54:09It's
54:09Not
54:09For
54:10Me
54:10To
54:10Judge
54:10I
54:11Just
54:11Feel
54:11Like
54:11Somebody
54:12Died
54:12And
54:14We
54:14Don't
54:15Have
54:15Them
54:15Anymore
54:15That's
54:16All
54:35Front
54:46Frontline
54:46Frontline
54:46Made
54:46Repeated
54:47Invitations
54:48To
54:48Jim
54:48And
54:48Tammy
54:49Baker
54:49To
54:49Be
54:50Interviewed
54:50For
54:50This
54:50Program
54:51They
54:52Declined
54:52The
54:53Bakers
54:54And
54:54Other
54:54Former
54:54PTL
54:55Leaders
54:56Now
54:56Await
54:57Possible
54:57Indictments
54:58On
54:58Tax
54:59Evasion
54:59And
55:00Fraud
55:00Charges
55:01From
55:01The
55:01Federal
55:02Grand
55:02Jury
55:02Meeting
55:03In
55:03North
55:03Carolina
55:04No
55:05Indictments
55:05Are
55:05Expected
55:06For
55:06At
55:06Least
55:07Six
55:07Months
55:07Later
55:08This
55:09Week
55:09Here
55:09In
55:09Washington
55:10The
55:10National
55:11Religious
55:12Broadcasters
55:12Will
55:13Hold
55:13Their
55:13Annual
55:14Meeting
55:14During
55:15The
55:15Convention
55:16They
55:16Are
55:16Scheduled
55:17To
55:17Vote
55:17On
55:18A
55:18New
55:18Set
55:18Of
55:19Regulations
55:19Designed
55:20To
55:20Tighten
55:21Financial
55:21Self
55:22Policing
55:22By
55:23Television
55:23Preachers
55:24They
55:25Don't
55:25Have
55:25A
55:26Good
55:26Record
55:26In
55:27The
55:27Past
55:28Many
55:28Of
55:28The
55:28Most
55:28Powerful
55:29Preachers
55:30Have
55:30Fought
55:30Against
55:31Any
55:31Public
55:32Accountability
55:32They
55:33Want
55:33To
55:33Keep
55:34Government
55:34Out
55:34Of
55:35Their
55:35Churches
55:35But
55:36They
55:36Also
55:37Like
55:37Other
55:37Citizens
55:38Want
55:38To
55:39Have
55:39A
55:39Hand
55:39In
55:39Influencing
55:40Government
55:41So
55:41The
55:42Broadcasters
55:42Will
55:43Play
55:43Host
55:43To
55:44President
55:44And
55:45Mrs.
55:45Reagan
55:45And
55:46Listen
55:46To
55:47Republican
55:47Candidates
55:48Bush
55:49Dole
55:50Kemp
55:50And
55:51Robertson
55:51That
55:52Friendly
55:53Mix
55:53Of
55:53Pulpit
55:54And
55:54Politics
55:55Only
55:56Makes
55:56It
55:56Harder
55:57To
55:57See
55:57That
55:58The
55:58Issue
55:58Here
55:59Is
55:59Not
55:59The
56:00First
56:00Amendment
56:00And
56:01The
56:01Separation
56:02Of
56:02Church
56:02And
56:03State
56:03But
56:04Government's
56:04Obligation
56:05That
56:06No
56:06One
56:06Citizen
56:07Church
56:08Or
56:08Preacher
56:09Can
56:09Be
56:10Above
56:10The
56:10Law
56:10Thank
56:12You
56:12For
56:12Joining
56:12Us
56:13I'm
56:13Judy
56:13Woodruff
56:14Good
56:14Night
56:14Next
56:16Next
56:16Next week
56:17On
56:17Frontline
56:17The
56:18Invasion
56:18Of
56:18Grenada
56:19It
56:19Was
56:19Hailed
56:20As
56:20One
56:20Of
56:20President
56:20Reagan's
56:21Greatest
56:21Trials
56:22We
56:23Got
56:23There
56:23Just
56:24In
56:24Time
56:24American
56:26Troops
56:27Were
56:27Sent
56:27To
56:27Rescue
56:27600
56:28Medical
56:28Students
56:29But
56:30Frontline
56:30Reveals
56:31The
56:31Shocking
56:31Mistakes
56:32Which
56:32May
56:32Have
56:32Put
56:32American
56:33Lives
56:33In
56:33Even
56:34More
56:34Danger
56:34Watch
56:37Operation
56:37Urgent
56:38Fury
56:38Next
56:39Time
56:39On
56:39Frontline
56:40Prison
56:42In
56:47Human
56:49Mah
57:09One
57:10One
57:10Frontline is produced for the documentary consortium
57:22by WGBH Boston,
57:24which is solely responsible for its content.
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