- 4 months ago
- #premsagar
- #ramanandsagar
- #ramayan
Prem Sagar, son of legendary filmmaker Ramanand Sagar has left heavenly abode today at the age of 81 in Mumbai. Watch the versatile cinematographer's last interview with senior most journalist Bharathi S Pradhan on Lehren Retro, in which Prem has open-heartedly talked about his father Ramanand Sagar's Legacy, Ramayan, movies & much more... #premsagar #ramanandsagar #ramayan
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00:00The Ramayana that you made, your father and you made, you know the casting was so perfect.
00:12Did you have the cast at your beck and call?
00:15Did they give their entire dedication to the Ramayana?
00:18And is that what you wanted when you signed them?
00:21That you have to be there, all there for the Ramayana when we are shooting it?
00:26Or were they coming, going, doing what they want, doing 10 films, or were they all dedicated to the Ramayana?
00:35See, an actor is just clay.
00:40You have to mould him.
00:42He is the director's medium.
00:44So I beg to differ.
00:46On vector, actor is available.
00:48Then you take a star.
00:50Now star and actor are different.
00:53Agreed.
00:54So you went for actors, isn't it?
00:55Correct.
00:56That's one.
00:57Second, we had a problem.
00:59When Papaji came to Ramayana in 1976 during the making of Charas.
01:06Right.
01:07When he saw the first TV in the French Alps.
01:10Right.
01:11He decided to shift to TV.
01:12Right.
01:13And we were all against it.
01:15And a big screen and a movie mughal, you cannot do that.
01:17You cannot do that.
01:18Yeah.
01:19And Aarju, Aankhe, Ghee, Dalgar, Charas, what all?
01:22Right.
01:23What all?
01:24I mean, super hit.
01:25Cooper, super hit.
01:26Right.
01:27He was here to make Ramayana.
01:28Right.
01:29He was being taught to great mass media.
01:31So, but he had to make Ramayana.
01:33He was born to make Ramayana.
01:34He write Ramayana.
01:35I would say Ramayana cannot be written.
01:38Just going off the track.
01:39Just going off the track.
01:41The first time Ramayana, Shri Bhagawan had been written to Parvati Mahan.
01:47And there was Kagabhashundi Ji.
01:49So Kagabhashundi Ji went to Panchi Sabha.
01:52And there was Walmiki, Walmiki, Tulsi.
01:55And Tulsi had written in Lippi.
01:57Right.
01:58Because that time the language had come.
02:00So, Ramananda Sagar was born and sent to this dharti to rewrite Ramayana.
02:07Ramayana.
02:08Not to write Ramayana.
02:09Right.
02:10Not to make Ramayana.
02:11Ramayana to har manu vrat mein ghaati hai.
02:14Kangabhashundi toh chaudha bhaar dekhte hai.
02:17He is outside the globe.
02:18He is seeing from here.
02:19He is seeing from here.
02:20And the same sequence is repeated.
02:24Because he is seeing the luckily Ramayana.
02:26So, Ram to har yug mein aayegi na.
02:29Har manuvrat mein aayegi.
02:31Yes.
02:32So, there are 14 manus.
02:33So, it is a very scientific exact kind of a thinking.
02:37Ki, Vishnu avatar hoga prallay hogi, maa prallay hogi.
02:40Vishnu ke nabi ke ghol sari srashti ghoi.
02:44It is all a very very calculated thinking process of the whole srashti is working.
02:49Right.
02:50So, there is something called gall.
02:51There is something called Vishnu.
02:52Yes.
02:53And Ram is Vishnu avatar.
02:54Right.
02:55Toh, sab se bada problem tha ki, the main problem around the world was, you mukkut aur
03:05mooch ni chalega.
03:06Correct.
03:07And some of them told me, tera papa sixty ho gaya hai, un satag hai.
03:12Really?
03:13Yes.
03:14Some of the biggest people in this world.
03:16He gave me a suitcase, briefcase, with Ramayana pamphlets.
03:20And he had friends all over the world because he was a legend.
03:24Yes.
03:25Even as a filmmaker.
03:26Right.
03:27You know, people respected him.
03:28Hindu jatsuki toh telegraph, aaj bhi arzu hai.
03:32Can you imagine?
03:33They were made from arzu and samgam.
03:34Oh.
03:35Okay.
03:36What they were today.
03:37Right.
03:38Right.
03:39Yes.
03:40Toh, that is how they started their whole empire.
03:41That's right.
03:42Yes.
03:43And they respect that.
03:44Toh, every, he sent me round the world, gave me round the world ticket.
03:48Main yahan seh, Dubai gaya, Dubai seh, Middle East gaya, Middle East seh, London, London
03:54seh, New York, LA, Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong.
04:00Daye aliv,
04:00S 어때?,
04:02Uh,
04:03No.
04:04Introduction.
04:05Not only a Nothing.
04:06Mayam,
04:07Mutra gaya,
04:07Mmm.
04:08See,
04:09No.
04:09Stand a veryesque in shakthi.
04:10Really?
04:11-
04:30He had decided because he was a Ram Bhakt of different intensity that I have seen.
04:39Actually, Devi Bhakti from 54, Mere Jodhada Pradada was Shiv Bhakti, but this Ram Bhakti
04:50was a Ram Bhakti and he was sure Ram Bhakti, he was sure that Ram Bhakti, he was sure I'll
04:59make three.
05:00Mere Jitni Baakki zindagi rahe gai in the age of 60, he had decided though he made Ramayana
05:07at the age of 70, but the age of 60 he had decided.
05:12Decided to make it and he made it at 70.
05:15That I will make 12 Sampoona Kalavatar Raap, 16 Sampoona Krishna and Shakti Mahamaya Durga.
05:28And he was sure that I will do this.
05:31And this was the problem and he and me had a soul-made relationship.
05:35I could not sleep at night without making him sleep.
05:39I could not eat before him.
05:42I would say Pitra Rin or Putra Dharam ka apna sochna hai.
05:46Everybody not necessary, you should follow that.
05:48That's right.
05:49But Mera apna chemistry hai and I have a right to live my way.
05:53Right.
05:54Because I think Pitra Rin chukai na chukai.
05:57And Putra Dharam to kabhi khatami ni ho ga.
06:01So even the book I have written on him is because of the same.
06:05Kapil Sharma show was also the same.
06:08Jidhar se ke sari chingari aie hai, you know.
06:12So coming back to Raman.
06:14Coming back to Raman.
06:16He came to me.
06:18Pitra Rin, kya kar hai?
06:20I said, you sure?
06:21He says, I am very sure.
06:22I have to do it.
06:23I have been born.
06:24I have been born.
06:25Actually, his name was Ram Anand.
06:28Which was not a coincidence.
06:31And then first time he saw Sagar, Varun Dertha in Bombay.
06:35He called himself.
06:37My mother's name was Ram Leela.
06:39Now when he was born in Shishu,
06:41He was born in Shishu Ramayana.
06:42He was born in Shishu Ramayana.
06:43He was born in Shishu Ramayana.
06:44Then someone knew that he would be Raman.
06:45Correct.
06:46Correct.
06:47So it was not a coincidence.
06:48It was a divine…
06:49Destiny.
06:50Destiny.
06:51Not destiny.
06:52It was a planning.
06:53It was a divine planning.
06:55It was a divine planning.
06:57He was…
06:58He was…
06:59He was given the soul to his soul.
07:00Because the Sanatana and Dharam values were diluted.
07:05And Ramayana had pollution.
07:08Because Ram was difficult to digest for anybody else.
07:15Because he was Maryada Purushottam.
07:17That's right.
07:18Ideal man, ideal father, ideal son, ideal king.
07:21Aisa Purush honam.
07:23Adi Purush.
07:25Maryada Purushottam.
07:26He…
07:27Maryada Purushottam is not acceptable to perhaps many other mankind living here.
07:35Right.
07:36Yes.
07:37So Ramayana got polluted.
07:38Ram will ban sita.
07:39Yes.
07:40Yes.
07:41And things like that.
07:42Yes.
07:43And Papaji was conscious of it.
07:46And he wanted to even change Ramayana according to what he thought was right.
07:50Okay.
07:51And he also took a lot of pre-state liberty.
07:53Coming down to casting.
07:55So he came to me.
07:56What did he do?
07:57I said don't worry Papaji.
07:59We'll make a test marketing.
08:02Hmm.
08:03What do we do in Hollywood?
08:04What do we do in Hollywood?
08:05When a film is made,
08:06then it was made in a small place.
08:08In a small place,
08:09in a panwail,
08:10in a karjat,
08:11in a kapoli,
08:12in a night,
08:13a show at 9 o'clock,
08:14in a new film.
08:15And the full unit is there.
08:16The editor,
08:17the director,
08:18the actors,
08:19the music.
08:20And they come and redo the film,
08:21and then release.
08:22Okay.
08:23better.
08:24Defhand him in it."
08:28use and they come and redo the film and then release.
08:30Okay.
08:31So what!!
08:32Test audienceygues!
08:33Yes.
08:34.
08:35you know?
08:36So i said i am the test marketing.
08:37the people sent submit them.
08:38how to do it.
08:39i said,
08:40-
08:43A writer is a great classic writer..
08:44schomadev batta.
08:45Us además deon sara
08:5225 stories of Vitaal, the stories of Vitaal, the stories of Vitaal, the characters of Vitaal, the dresses of Vitaal, we made Vikram Vitaal.
09:03He said the idea is good, but who will he back? Because Vikram Vitaal was the first of his kind on TV.
09:12Absolutely.
09:13You know, costume, it set a trend. Yes. And it is some magic, vijic and you know all that.
09:20Absolutely. Yeah, special effects and all. It was a forerunner to Ramayana.
09:24Yes.
09:25To Mr. R.S. Agarwal, he started his company as Imam. He was my friend, he was very close to him.
09:33He used to say Shirushari. And he was fond of Ayurveda. So we both had common interests, you know.
09:41So I went to Agarwal Saab and said, sir, hek kuch karte hain society ke liye, let's bring Vikram Vitaal, because that will bring again lot of goodness to mankind.
09:53Yes. Yes.
09:54You know, lot of moral values. Yes.
09:56And storytelling.
09:57Absolutely.
09:58And fascinating storytelling.
09:59Correct.
10:00It will be fun, you know, for kids.
10:02Yeah.
10:03And I said, you know.
10:04He got a shock of his life.
10:05Okay.
10:06You know.
10:07I said, sir, that is my problem.
10:08Cameraman I did.
10:09Lighting I did.
10:10Direction I did.
10:11Special effects I did.
10:12Right.
10:13Underwater city 75 rupees mein ki.
10:14Mahakal ka mandir garage mein ki.
10:15Okay.
10:16The whole Vikram Vitaal was shot in Sagar Villa.
10:17Okay.
10:18Okay.
10:19Can you beat that?
10:20It's not a joke.
10:21It's not a joke.
10:22Yeah.
10:23It's not a joke.
10:24Yeah.
10:25Yeah.
10:26Koo mein se girna.
10:27Ous do aadmi paani ke liye khar hoate thi.
10:28Deepika upti.
10:29Oh, that is my problem.
10:30That is my problem.
10:31Cameraman I did.
10:32Lighting I did.
10:33I did.
10:34Lighting I did.
10:35Direction I did.
10:36I did.
10:37Direction I did.
10:38Special effects I did.
10:39Right.
10:40Underwater city 75 rupees mein ki.
10:41Mahakal ka mandir garage mein ki.
10:42Okay.
10:43The whole Vikram Vitaal was shot in Sagar Villa.
10:44Okay.
10:45Can you beat that?
10:46That is why the Vikram Vitaal was shot in Sagar Villa.
10:49That is why the Vikram Vitaal was shot in Sagar Villa.
10:51Right.
10:52And the camera will not shift.
10:54Can you imagine?
10:55We had practically 12 to 18 scenes per episode and shot everything in one day.
11:03We used to shoot 23 minutes in one day.
11:05Wow.
11:06Yeah.
11:07Because of planning.
11:08I used to take a month to plan my sketches and everything.
11:12And then Vikram Vitaal became a hit.
11:15Like a day.
11:16Yes.
11:17Yes.
11:18We used to take a month to plan my construction.
11:19To plan my collection.
11:20Yes.
11:21Yes.
11:22Yes.
11:23Yes.
11:24Yes.
11:25Yes.
11:26Then he was sure.
11:27Then he said.
11:28Then he was sure. Then he said,
11:36Ramayana is Ramayana.
11:43So you will see everything of Vikram Baitan is Ramayana.
11:49Vikram is Ram.
11:51That is Arun Gowell.
11:53Arun Gowell so Vikram became Ram.
11:55The prince Lakshman.
11:58The yogi Ravan.
12:01The warrior Veeruvar Dara Singh Hanuman.
12:04The king was Meghna.
12:08And the princess was Deepika.
12:11And the unit also.
12:13Editor Subhaj Sekal.
12:15Ravidra Jain.
12:17So everything of Vikram Baitan was translated into Ramayana.
12:21So the same caste, same unit, same crew.
12:24Everything is the same.
12:25And that is how you got your caste for Ramayana.
12:28Correct.
12:29At the same time while selecting the caste.
12:32I had a very, aaj bhi Sunil Lehri ko yaad hai.
12:39Meri cabin.
12:40Sunil Lehri who played Lakshman.
12:41He played Lakshman.
12:42He came to my cabin.
12:44You know my assistant brought him.
12:46I said shirt utar.
12:47He says Prem I felt very funny.
12:50Ki Hanuman ka shirt utar is ki raadhi ki hai.
12:55Aur ul dinno mein shirtless was not in fashion.
12:59No, but I wanted to see his torso.
13:01That is right.
13:02That is right.
13:03Because he has to go bare torso.
13:05No, the actor ka jo body hai.
13:07That is a part of, uska heart kaisa hai.
13:10We selected Darminder for aankhain.
13:13Because his hand was so big.
13:15You needed that.
13:17Which time Darminder was nobody when we selected him.
13:20He was Shola or Shabna made picture.
13:22Right.
13:23But because he could hold the gun.
13:24That is right.
13:25And he would look great.
13:26Can you imagine he was selected for aankhain because of his hand.
13:29Because his hand.
13:30Wow.
13:31Okay.
13:32But that is filmmaking.
13:33Right.
13:34So that is how you did your casting in Ramayana also.
13:36Right.
13:37Because Arun Govil had a perfect torso.
13:40Between his two shoulders and his nabi.
13:43It is an equilateral triangle.
13:45Okay.
13:46As a cameraman, as a painter I am telling you.
13:48Right.
13:49Right.
13:50Okay.
13:51If you see Vartus man of Leonardo da Vinci.
13:53Yes.
13:54He divided into eight parts.
13:56Right.
13:57Right.
13:58And when wo jo kha da ota hai in a circle banta hai.
14:01Wo 30 degree ja.
14:02So that calculation of the human body is there na.
14:05So you saw that in Arun Govil.
14:07Of course.
14:08Okay.
14:09Okay.
14:10And I because I have been a painter.
14:11Yes.
14:12And I have been a cameraman and a still photographer.
14:13Yes.
14:14And you are a cameraman.
14:15Yes.
14:16So my vision is a little different only as a director.
14:17Right.
14:18And he was a perfect guy.
14:19And he selected him and he fitted Ram so perfectly.
14:22Yes.
14:23Absolutely.
14:24To this day when you say Ram.
14:25Yes.
14:26You cannot.
14:27You think of Ram.
14:28I don't go over the moment you think of Ram.
14:30Logo ne haar chada hai.
14:31Nariyal pohle ko.
14:32Really?
14:33I have seen that he said the airport and an elderly lady went up to him and you know
14:39wanted to be photographed and and because she felt she was seeing Ram again.
14:43You won't believe in Umar gaon mein ye tribal women unke bache bheimaar hotte te na.
14:53Iske charno me haanke rakhde te te.
14:55This is Umar gaon in Gujarat.
14:56Gujarat.
14:57Where the entire Ramayana was shot.
14:58Entire Ramayana was shot.
14:59Okay.
15:00It became a international village.
15:02Village.
15:03Fishing village became internationally famous.
15:05Wow.
15:06Because even BBC.
15:07That's right.
15:08Can you imagine?
15:09And the bachea theek bhe hojata tha.
15:12It's faith.
15:13Faith.
15:14Yeah.
15:15It's just faith.
15:16Their own mind.
15:17They use their own energy.
15:18Right.
15:19Ram did nothing.
15:20Yeah.
15:21But that was the impact of Arun Gogil.
15:24Of Arun Gogil.
15:25Yes.
15:26Which is there even today.
15:27Absolutely.
15:28Calcutta say bade bade zamindar and this Marwari is rich man.
15:35They would call Arun Gogil on their child's birthday to bless him.
15:40Wow.
15:41I have seen that.
15:42I will tell you a small incidence.
15:47BBC wanted Ramayana.
15:50Okay.
15:51So we were in correspondence.
15:53Since I was also the marketing director.
15:56Right.
15:57It was managed by Ram Skripa to sell Ramayana in 55 countries.
16:01Wow.
16:0255 channels.
16:03Wow.
16:04And got a 650 million viewership.
16:07Wow.
16:08Which was the world record.
16:09Right.
16:10And just imagine after 33 years it got 78 million.
16:14Against Games of Thrones 1.9 million which held the record.
16:18During Covid.
16:19After the Covid.
16:20After the Covid.
16:21Yes.
16:222 crore.
16:238 crore.
16:24And Ustayim 65 crore.
16:26That means 1 in every 12 human beings had seen Ramayana.
16:30Ramayana in the world.
16:31In the world.
16:32And in multiple languages including Mandarin.
16:36Yes.
16:37That is right.
16:38Thai Basha, Imaro Basha, Telugu, Tamil, Malayana.
16:40Yes.
16:41Every possible language.
16:42Yes.
16:43Every possible language.
16:44You cannot imagine that.
16:45You see.
16:46And spread across 5 continents.
16:48One journalist asked me, sir, where have you shown Ramayana?
16:52I said, sir, only 5 continents.
16:54Only 5, not 7.
16:56I said, you are not Antarctic.
16:58I am an Arctic.
16:59I blushed.
17:00He was a chitta.
17:03Why trade European?
17:05He couldn't believe.
17:06Yeah.
17:07Right.
17:08Right.
17:09So, it is not a joke.
17:11Ramayana even marketing wise cannot be repeated.
17:14That is right.
17:15That is right.
17:16Shole, Shole sold 40,000 BCDs, DVDs.
17:20Yes.
17:21Ramayana sold 17 million.
17:23Wow.
17:24It is not a joke.
17:25Just no comparison.
17:26Very no.
17:27Comparison.
17:28Yeah.
17:29Because Ram had to reach there.
17:31That is right.
17:32So, he was very sure Ramayana banani hai.
17:35He made Ramayana.
17:36He made Krishna.
17:37He couldn't make Durga due to many circumstances with the government.
17:41So, when you made the Ramayana, what kind of dedication did you put into it?
17:46As in, not just the making of the Ramayana, but was there a lot of discipline being observed
17:52on the sets?
17:54See, unless you do samarpan, samarpan means you give yourself up.
18:01Completely.
18:02Completely.
18:03Completely.
18:04No questions asked.
18:05No reason.
18:06Right.
18:07You leave the ego, you leave the self.
18:09Tab jaake ek Ramayana, jo Papa Ji ne banai, ban sakki hai.
18:14Right.
18:15That was not only Papa Ji, but everybody had to do that.
18:19If you will notice, that Papa Ji ne Krishna bhi banai, then he didn't take Arun Govila.
18:24Because that image of Ram ki.
18:26Ram ki.
18:27So he had, and again a new boy who had only done Adi Shankaracharya.
18:33That's right.
18:34That's right.
18:35That's right.
18:36So if you take Ram, if you take a star or something, then it's an image fixed.
18:41That's right.
18:42That's right.
18:43That's right.
18:44That's right.
18:45That's right.
18:46That's right.
18:47That's right.
18:48So the Ramayana is, you know, everybody is talking about how Ramanan Sagar and your Ramayana is, continues to be the ultimate.
19:12I had asked once, Papa Ji is very, those moments when he would reveal his inner thought.
19:23Yes.
19:24His soul level thought.
19:25Ramayana had become a big hit and it doesn't become already a.
19:30Right.
19:31I asked him, Papa Ji, je Ramayana kap tak chale ge?
19:35He called me and said, Papraim, he had that vision for 50 years.
19:48Nobody will be able to reveal.
19:50So after Corona, I remembered Papa Ji how much.
19:56Right.
19:57Right.
19:58Yeah.
19:59I said, my God, what a foresight he had.
20:02What a vision he had.
20:04And he was made and born to be.
20:07You know, when he was born, he was Chandramali.
20:09Really?
20:10Oh.
20:11Shiv Bhagavan ka naam.
20:12Oh.
20:13And Shiv ne pelle retta ki.
20:14Naam sanskaran ne Ramanan doha.
20:16Ramanan.
20:17Yeah.
20:18And je pehli bar Bambay mein aay, unho ne kabhi samundar nahi dekha ta.
20:22Ja Varun Deta ke narshan nahi kye ta.
20:24Just imagine somebody who has never seen the sea.
20:29Yeah.
20:30And see such a mass of water.
20:32Aapne lek dekha hai, aapne nadi dekhi hai.
20:36But to see the sea, it's a, it's a, it's a killer in your mind, you know.
20:44Yeah.
20:45That is when he decided.
20:47You know, with a little hesitancy, he went to Charni road.
20:51And Charni road ki queen dekha hai na.
20:53O mafadwal ke saap mein, Prismin Puri.
20:56He stood there, and he prayed to Varun Deta ki ye Kuber nagari mein accept me.
21:02Okay.
21:03I have come to this new city.
21:04Right.
21:05Please give me a place to stay.
21:07Right.
21:08Which is Mombay.
21:09Mombay has never refused anybody, always given it a place.
21:11Always.
21:12Iktidel rei bhai, puri Bailpuri stalls cross karte hai main road tak hai.
21:19Mane aaj tak ni dekha hai.
21:21In my, say, eighty years of Bombay.
21:24And zoom karte hoi, he said, my name will be Ram Anand Zagara.
21:31Okay.
21:32Before that he was Ramanand Bedi, because his mother side was Bedi.
21:38Then he was Ramanand Kashmiri, because of Kashmiri.
21:42He came from Kashmiri.
21:43His forefathers were from Kashmir.
21:451830 se.
21:46And there were Chopras.
21:47Yeah, yeah.
21:48He was Ramanand Chokra.
21:49Chopra also.
21:50His great great grandfather Lala Shankar Das, was a Nagar state.
21:55Right.
21:56During Gulab Singh's time.
21:59Yes.
22:00Gulab Singh is the first king, Sikh king who took, who bought Kashmir from the Britishers.
22:07That's right.
22:08You see, 75,000 nana shai, the coins, you know.
22:17So, from that, Nagar state mother was the richest man.
22:21So, he came from that kind of a backdrop.
22:24And you feel he was born and placed on this earth to make the Ramayan, to rewrite the Ramayan?
22:31I don't feel, it's a fact.
22:34Okay.
22:35If you join all the kadis, while I was living and while we were together, it may not have occurred to me.
22:42Yes.
22:43But now seeing the effects, because I can't think of any serial or any movie,
22:49the 33 years ke baad bhi asa record kare.
22:53Yes.
22:54It cannot be, unki haard diski ni khatam hoti thi.
22:59Twenty-nine films he wrote.
23:02Sixteen he produced and made them into hit.
23:05Uske baad two thousand hours of television software.
23:09You think it is possible for a human disc to do that?
23:13That's right.
23:14Yes.
23:15So, his disc, his megabytes were totally different.
23:18Tetrabytes, yes.
23:19Yes, tetrabytes.
23:20Yes.
23:21And to make Ramayan, to get 65, 650 million viewership, is it possible by a human being?
23:30True.
23:31And then after 33 years to get another 17.
23:34That's right.
23:35So, he was, he was sent to this darti and he faced a lot of hardships.
23:43All the characters of Ramayan, whether it was kakai or mantra, he had a, he, he had a stepmother who used to beat him, beat him.
23:52Yes.
23:53And, you know, and all that kind of stories.
23:55His mother died of drug addiction.
23:57Right.
23:58At the age of 26, when he was just 5 years old.
24:03And he has gone through a lot of selling shows, cleaning trucks, becoming a pune, clerk.
24:09He's seen life.
24:11He's seen every aspect of Ramayan character in his own life.
24:15That's right.
24:16Because he had to portray them.
24:18Some villain, some gold, some sacrifice, some giver, some Bharat, some Lakshman, some Shatrugan.
24:26Some kakai, some, what is it to be a mother.
24:30So, jaysay ek aadmi ne PhD karni hoti hai.
24:34Toh usko pahle keji mein bhejta hai.
24:38Then he was sent, he was made to struggle, he was made to face all these kinds of things, so that he could, you know, put those characters in real life.
24:53Then he was, he was a journalist.
24:56At the age of 16, he wrote his first story.
24:58That's right.
24:59In Pratap College magazine, Preetan Pratiksha, which has sheets of Krishna and, Krishna and Uddhav.
25:12It's Uddhav and Krishna's story, at the age of 16, you know.
25:17And the editor said, this is not yours.
25:19He said, no, it is mine.
25:20They had a fight.
25:21Then finally the editor wrote, I am not responsible for the originality.
25:26At the age of 16.
25:28And in 1950, he made a big flop film, 51, Mehman.
25:35Usmei da was a song was, Bina do sita mata ko diya ram ne ghar se nikal.
25:42Javan was.
25:43Yeah.
25:44Prindavan's song.
25:45Now, that Bija was there, of making Ramayana.
25:48In one of his short stories, where the lady, you know, the heroine, is washed away in Ravi, Ravi river, to the Pakistan side.
25:58Right.
25:59And when she comes, the father refuses to accept, was sita not being accepted and sita pariksha.
26:06That's right.
26:07Agni pariksha.
26:08Agni pariksha.
26:09So, everything in his life, he experienced, and then he was shown how to make mass media communication.
26:18He made super hit films.
26:20Because Ramayana had to have such a viewership.
26:23It had to go to mankind.
26:25It has to go to the universe.
26:27So, it was all a learning process.
26:30Chandramali, Ramanan, Ramanan Sagar, Leela, Ram Leela.
26:36So, how do you attribute that?
26:40That's right.
26:41How do you explain this?
26:42Yeah.
26:43And similarly, in his life, he met a lot of people, saints, tantrics, big, big, like in 1942, when he got TV, our Kulpuroit, Nityanandji, he was a tantric.
27:00I have experienced his tantric power, personally.
27:03You see.
27:04And he told him, looking at his Kulio, in 80, somewhere in 80s, you will make Ramayana.
27:13When he was 25.
27:1525 years old.
27:16When it was predicted that he will make the Ramayana in the 80s.
27:25Yes.
27:26He had got TV.
27:27He was given up for dead.
27:29You see.
27:30He was sent to Tangmar Sanatorium.
27:36It was a one-way street.
27:39Actually, all that Papaji lived, he learnt in the TV sanatorium.
27:44Oh.
27:45Okay.
27:46He learnt the philosophy of Sakshi-Babh, witness living.
27:51Karta hote vi darta hona, darta hote vi karta hona.
27:57You are a witness and you are living.
27:59You are living and you are a witness.
28:01And you are a witness.
28:02It is witness living.
28:04That was his whole life.
28:06You know, he lived like that.
28:09That is my thinking, being with him, you know, Sakshi-Babh.
28:14Now, there he was given up for dead.
28:17The sanatorium was a one-way street.
28:19There was no cure.
28:20People came and said,
28:22they would call the lottery.
28:23Who will die tomorrow?
28:24So, one dead body would go.
28:27And the next day they would celebrate.
28:29And neither did they go.
28:30So, he wasn't sent.
28:31And there he started writing a column.
28:33Okay.
28:34He said, I am dying thik hai.
28:35Let me leave something ki how to live.
28:36So, there was a magazine called Adav-e-Mushrik in Lahore.
28:40And that time Lahore had all the intellectual giants, you know, like gay.
28:41Like, Krishan Chandra, Monto, Faiz Ahmed Faiz, hai na?
28:44And all these kinds of things.
28:45So, he started writing a column.
28:46Okay.
28:47He said, I am dying thik hai.
28:48Let me leave something ki how to live.
28:51So, there was a magazine called Adav-e-Mushrik in Lahore.
28:58And that time Lahore had all the intellectual giants, you know, like, like Krishan Chandra,
29:06Faiz Ahmed Faiz, hai na?
29:09And all these kinds of literary giants, Rajinder Singh Dedi.
29:13And he started writing this column.
29:16And started sending it to the editor, unknown guy.
29:21The editor, he read the first, you know, the clip which he sent.
29:28He said, a dying man is showing how to live.
29:32No, you know.
29:33Look at the irony.
29:34Irony.
29:35Yeah.
29:36I would say, paradox.
29:37Yes.
29:38He is defining philosophy through death and witness living.
29:52And that column became a super hit.
29:55And unknown to Papaji, in the literary world, he had become a star.
29:59And he is there in the sanitary.
30:00And he is dying there.
30:02Right.
30:03You know.
30:04So, he didn't know that this has happened to him.
30:06Right.
30:07There was one man next to his room.
30:08He was given up for dead.
30:09It was only how many days more he will live.
30:10Okay.
30:11So, because of that, he said,
30:12So, because of that, he said,
30:16So, you know,
30:18So, you know,
30:19So, there was a vaid in the sanngmark.
30:20You know.
30:21So, he went to this vaid and that vaid knew that he is going to die.
30:23So, the vaid used to bully him.
30:24Mm.
30:25So, the vaid used to bully him.
30:26Mm.
30:27So, the vaid got a shock.
30:28Mm.
30:29He says,
30:30He says,
30:31He says,
30:32I don't know.
30:33You give me medicine, I become all right.
30:34I am leaving the sanatorium.
30:35They gave me a clean chat.
30:36So, he went to this vaid and that vaid knew that he is going to die.
30:37So, the vaid used to bully him.
30:38Mm.
30:39And just to make him psychologically feel,
30:42Oh, I have taken the medicine.
30:43Yeah.
30:44And that guy became all right.
30:46That vaid got a shock.
30:49He says,
30:51How did he,
30:52He says,
30:53I don't know.
30:54You give me medicine, I become all right.
30:55I am leaving the sanatorium.
30:56They gave me a clean chat.
30:58He says,
30:59Hold on.
31:00Tell me what you do the whole day.
31:03Mm.
31:04So, karte karte pata chala,
31:06He was so fed up with life.
31:08There was a sugarcane field.
31:10Mm.
31:11There was a parapet wall.
31:12He used to go and sit there.
31:13He used to pluck the sugarcane,
31:15eat the sugarcane,
31:17and sing a song written by Kedar Sharma.
31:20You know,
31:21it's sung by K.L. Segal.
31:23Dukh ke din abbeetat nai,
31:25naa koi tera, naa koi mera,
31:28hai chas, charo aur andera.
31:31To vaid said, take me there.
31:34Vaid said,
31:36he sat on the same place.
31:38He plucked the sugarcane fully from the roots,
31:43and there he found a twelve foot long black cobra dead.
31:47Oh.
31:48So, it was the cobra poison which was coming through the sugarcane,
31:52and, you know, this Gautukhai got cured.
31:55My God.
31:56And there is a possibility that Papaji got cured,
32:00because of something like that.
32:02That I am not able to,
32:04but he told me this story,
32:06so this, you know.
32:08Yeah.
32:09So, he got cured.
32:10Yeah.
32:11So, he got cured.
32:12And, he was coming down the Tangmar.
32:13Tangmar,
32:14che,
32:15che hazaar foot pe,
32:16and he chayana patta hai.
32:17Cha hazaar foot hai.
32:18And,
32:19Saamne said,
32:20Goda arata.
32:21He was on a horse.
32:22They both stopped.
32:23They both looked at each other.
32:25They both got down.
32:27They came face to face.
32:29And then,
32:30stranger on the other side,
32:31he says,
32:32Ramanal.
32:33Papaji got a shock of his life.
32:36He looked at him.
32:37He says,
32:38Krishanchandra.
32:39He says,
32:40Yes.
32:41He couldn't believe that,
32:42Krishanchandra is in front of me.
32:44He is such a big writer.
32:45Right.
32:46And, I am an unknown guy.
32:47So, Krishanchandra and he became great friends.
32:49Great friends, sir.
32:50Then, he took him to Shalimar in Puna.
32:52Then, he brought him to Bombay.
32:54Right.
32:55And, he respected Krishanchandra right up to the last.
32:58Last.
32:59Even in Hamrai,
33:00Krishanchandra wrote the screenplay dialogue.
33:02That's right.
33:03He never forgot his friends and people, you know.
33:05Right.
33:06So, he became all right.
33:07And, that column, Moth Ke Bistar Se,
33:10became a big hit column.
33:13You were talking about a prediction that was made when he was at the sanitary.
33:16Right.
33:17That is what I am trying to tell you.
33:19After he came back,
33:21my grandfather, Lala Dinanath,
33:26he was concerned and worried.
33:28So, he brought the Kulpurwet.
33:30Okay.
33:31Now, Kulpurwet, Nityanandji,
33:34was also Tantric.
33:36I just tell you a personal incident between me and Nityanandji.
33:39Nityanandji.
33:40Yeah.
33:41Me and Anand were there.
33:42And, you know how kids are.
33:45They want to do the oldest thing, no?
33:48Yeah.
33:49So, he says,
33:50what will they eat?
33:51He said,
33:52what will they eat?
33:53He said,
33:54what will they eat?
33:55Aadu.
33:56How do you get an Aadu?
33:57You understand by Aadu, no?
33:58No.
33:59Aadu is a pear kind of a fruit.
34:00Oh.
34:01Okay.
34:02You know?
34:03Aadu.
34:04Aadu.
34:05Aadu is a pear kind of a fruit.
34:06Oh.
34:07Okay.
34:08You know?
34:09Okay.
34:10Aadu.
34:11Aadu.
34:12Oh.
34:13Aadu.
34:14Aadu.
34:15Aadu.
34:16You know?
34:17Aadu.
34:18You know?
34:19Aadu.
34:20You know?
34:21Bharti hit it like this.
34:23And there was an Aadu in his hand.
34:26Oh.
34:27In Bhatia building, you know, twelve foot by twelve foot room, where the five brothers used
34:33to stay.
34:34He said, you know, what is Aadu?
34:36Oh.
34:37That was his power.
34:40Once, when Papa Ji was in very deep financial problems, to he had come home.
34:48Another miracle.
34:49So, he says, Nityanand Ji, kuch problems hain, kuch chamatkar dikhao na.
34:58He said, achcha.
34:59He used to call him Ramanand.
35:01Ramanand, tu likh tera sawaal.
35:04To Papa Ji took a piece of paper and wrote something and he says, this ko bandkar.
35:09He kept the glass on the table.
35:14After little time, he said, pick up the glass and the answer was written.
35:18This is not make-believe.
35:21Okay.
35:22I am sorry.
35:23People may think it is a myth.
35:25No.
35:26This is seen.
35:27So, I am not going to budge from what I have seen.
35:31So, Nityanand Ji was of that level.
35:33And he had predicted that.
35:34After he came back from TV, my grandfather brought him ki his ladke ka,
35:40the future kya hai, mar jaye ga, jiye ga, kya ho ga iska.
35:45And he laughed at him.
35:46He says, in the 80s he will make Ramananda because he will become an international figure.
35:51Kis baat ki fikrati, why are you worried?
35:52Okay.
35:53Then you remember Mola sahab, ye dasnambari ka pita?
35:54No, no, no.
35:55He was an astrologer.
35:56Oh, really?
35:57Achha.
35:58Mother Mola.
35:59Mother Mola's father.
36:00Okay.
36:01He was totally bugged by him with astrology.
36:02Achha.
36:03He wouldn't move without Mola sahab's doing.
36:04Achha.
36:05Without this astrological.
36:06Yeah.
36:07He was very close to Mola sahab.
36:08Okay.
36:09He used to tell him, achha, ye kar, wo kar, ye actor le, ye kar.
36:13Achha.
36:14He wouldn't move without Mola sahab's doing.
36:16Achha.
36:17Without this astrological.
36:18Yeah.
36:19He was very close to Mola sahab.
36:20Achha.
36:21Okay.
36:22He used to tell him, achha, ye kar, wo kar, ye actor le, ye kar.
36:25Achha.
36:26You know, apni industry mein he himself hoota hai.
36:28Yes.
36:29Because of the uncertainty.
36:30That's right.
36:31That's right.
36:32There is no doubt about it.
36:33Even right now, I know a fellow comes from south.
36:34Again, this is not a myth.
36:35He has compressed vidya.
36:36Achha.
36:37Just going off the track.
36:38His name is Kishore Pandit.
36:39He comes to meet me.
36:40Just sitting there.
36:41They come and tell him his name.
36:42His name is Kishore Pandit.
36:43He comes to meet me.
36:44Just sitting there.
36:45They come and tell him his name.
36:46His name is Kishore Pandit.
36:47His name is Kishore Pandit.
36:48He comes to know something.
37:05So Mola sahab saw Papaji's Kundali and he realized that Ramanand Sagar will make a
37:21spiritual mass media which will create havoc in the whole world.
37:30But he didn't know which one.
37:32So he started Yogeshwar Krishna with Shashi Kapoor as Krishna and Raj Kapoor came, LK Advani
37:45came to give the clap in Nattra studio.
37:48I remember I was there.
37:50Mola sahab and he predicted that in the 80s he will make something on Hindu spiritualism
38:00which will create a sensation around the world.
38:03Right.
38:04The only mistake he made was he said he will make Krishna and Narghamaya.
38:08Oh.
38:09Calculation mein kahin pe.
38:11In 1980, I am sorry, 1970 Varti, you won't believe Papaji gave me my first break in Lalkar
38:21as a director of photography.
38:23Right.
38:24I had got the gold medal and silver medal.
38:27And Satyajitri told him ki if you don't pick him up, I will take you in Berlin.
38:32So he was forced to give his son.
38:34Otherwise he was very rigid, strict, you know, as a father he was rather very strict.
38:42Nahin.
38:43You have to start from zero, work it up.
38:45Yeah.
38:46And then if you deserve, you will get.
38:47But I don't know, he gave me Lalkar at the age of 27, which was hardly anything.
38:52Yeah.
38:53To be a DOP at 727.
38:57And I was very touchy.
38:59We, it involved the northeast region, the story.
39:04So, udhar north light hoti hai.
39:07And wo Nagar lands mein unke ghar kaise hoti hai.
39:10To even Papaji wanted to see the location, so we both decided, chalo chalte hai.
39:15I had said, I'll see my lighting.
39:17I'll create special lights for Lalkar, which will give that bounce lighting feeling.
39:22You know, I created bounce lights and thing there.
39:25To udhar gaye, to humara distributor tha, Shankarlal Goenka.
39:31He owned all these theatres in Shilong and Goate.
39:35To humko Kamakshadevi lege hai.
39:38Umne puja wija ki.
39:40Bhaara ananda hai.
39:42By itself, Kamakshade, I made some beautiful photographs.
39:45Of that, I still have that.
39:48Suddenly, ek ladaki piche se jai and she tapped me and he says,
39:52wo ek sadhu baba hai, wo aapko milna chaat hai.
39:56So, I went to Papaji.
39:57Papaji.
39:58Papaji.
39:59We said, Papaji said, chalte hai hai.
40:02And he started walking.
40:03Looked back, that girl disappeared.
40:05Normal naga.
40:06He might have got lost in the crowd.
40:09Hum gaye, we faced the sadhu.
40:12He had a very unusual piercing eyes.
40:17Okay.
40:18And he, he was different.
40:22He was not normal.
40:24Okay.
40:25Kept looking at Papaji.
40:26Kept looking at Papaji as if he is, he is sending some kind of waves.
40:31He is sending some kind of spiritual cleansing or changing his mindset.
40:36This is my interpretation after what all has happened.
40:40And Papaji kept looking, he says, Baba koi seva, not speaking.
40:47Koi, some message for me, not speaking.
40:50Then we left.
40:51It looked normal.
40:52It looked normal.
40:53And we forgot about it.
40:55This is 1970.
40:57Okay.
40:58Now we cut to 1983, 84 or 85.
41:03After about 10, 15 years.
41:06Papaji wanted to make a small film called Koino with newcomers.
41:11So with camera and junior artists and actors, new actors, we went to Haridwar.
41:17We parked ourselves there.
41:18And we were shooting around Rishikesh and things like that, you know.
41:22And it started raining and thundering and, you know, big storm.
41:27And we were on the banks of the Ganga.
41:30And these lady actors, they were shivering.
41:33So he didn't know what to do.
41:35There's nothing.
41:36No house, nothing.
41:37So Papaji looked down, next to the Ganga Maiya river.
41:41Next to Ganga Maiya,
41:43a sadhu ki jhompuri thi.
41:45Jahan pe a ghavan chal raha ta agni dev.
41:48So Papaji just felt, he called his assistant yogi.
41:51He says, go and just request sadhu baba ki kuch der ke liye panaa de deen.
41:56Once the rain goes away, we'll go away.
41:59Yeah.
42:00So yogi went there.
42:01And he says, sir, hama film mana raha hai hai, hamaare saath kuch striya hai.
42:05Aapke bharsat ho rhi hai.
42:07He got so angry.
42:09He says, film mana raha ho.
42:12Nikal jo idar se.
42:14Took a little bit of ash.
42:16Basam kar doonga tere ko.
42:18That yogi toh.
42:20He almost fainted, he ran.
42:23You know, and he was tantri.
42:26And as yogi was running up, because it was about eight, ten feet down slope, you know,
42:33and he was wondering, we were here.
42:35Toh he asked him, uska naam kya hai hai?
42:39Toh yogi bhi bhaagta ho.
42:41Ramanand Sagar.
42:43That yogi totally changed.
42:46He says, Ramanand Sagar.
42:48Oh, maya mujha maaf kar doh.
42:51Mir seh galti hoi.
42:52Aray!
42:53Unko aadhar seh lekhya hao.
42:55The whole tone changed.
42:57The whole thinking changed.
42:59And we went down there.
43:01He is looking at Papaji like that, like that, like, you know, marble eyes.
43:05And he went outside.
43:07Oh, patte tode unho ne aisa kiya.
43:09Gharam paani toh dalam ko pilaya.
43:11We started sweating with that little drink of which he had made.
43:16Nigarming.
43:17Gharmi matlab.
43:19Barsat oghara sahab bhol gaye.
43:21Fal leayaya apne.
43:22Ushne bhiksha me liye te.
43:24Papaji godi, tum kau.
43:25Tum godu.
43:26Tum Ramanand Sagar hai na.
43:28Tum Ramanand Sagar hai na.
43:29Papaji also.
43:30You're all baffled, you know, at the totchi.
43:33Yeah.
43:34Finally, karte.
43:35Papaji nye ka, ne baba.
43:36Because you can take bhiksha only once.
43:39If you eat his fruit, then he'll remain angry.
43:41Correct.
43:42So Papaji was aware of that recently.
43:44Papaji aapki bhiksha hai.
43:45I can take bhiksha hai.
43:46I can take bhiksha hai.
43:47I can take bhiksha hai.
43:48I can take bhiksha hai.
43:49I can take bhiksha hai.
43:50And he treated it.
43:51And asked him ki, what is it?
43:53That suddenly you, and I am a, he said, I am a filmmaker.
43:58Yeah, I make normal films.
43:59Yeah.
44:00I make normal films.
44:01Yeah.
44:02So then he told us that in 1970 you had gone to Goati.
44:07Yeah.
44:08Yeah.
44:09You went to Kamaksha.
44:10Yeah.
44:11You, the girl came there.
44:12Yeah.
44:13You met a sadhu.
44:14Yeah.
44:15He said that was Mahavatar Babaji.
44:17Mahavatar Babaji lives between Badrinath and Kedarnath is 500 years old.
44:24There is a bubble and once you go inside that bubble you don't age.
44:30Okay.
44:31So, her, her sham ko, Bhadrinath Narayan ke aarti ke liye aate, phir chale jate.
44:36And, Yoganand's biography of a yogi has been mentioned.
44:40He can be at two places at the same time.
44:43Yes.
44:44And all that, you know.
44:45And he gives that darshan, then somebody has to do some maha-skaya-skaya-skaya-skaya-skaya-skaya-skaya-skaya.
44:56So, then he gives darshan.
44:58And he says, Baba Ji is too late, he says, but what do I have to do?
45:01He said, that you can tell Baba Ji.
45:03That I can't tell you.
45:04He said, where did Baba Ji get to?
45:07He said, this is Badrinath Narayan temple.
45:09When we have to come here, we come here.
45:11So, after some time we went to Badrinath Narayan temple, after 3 or 4 months we went to Badrinath.
45:14three-four months went to Badri Narayan and Prasad took him out and came out, Prasad
45:18fell down and came out and came out and came out with Prasad and came out with Prasad
45:23and came out with Prasad and came out and smiled and came out with Prasad and didn't
45:29know.
45:30When he came out and came out, there was a Ram Baba who got him and said, he said,
45:34Ramana?
45:35He said, yes.
45:36He is also Ram Baba.
45:38He said, if Maavatar Baba Ji, you can see him, you can see him.
45:42Because he gave me a message that you want to make a Ramayan, leave him this film and
45:51go to TV.
45:52Okay.
45:53Now, how do you explain this?
45:56So, you, your dad and the Ramayan you made was ordained?
46:01Absolutely.
46:02I have no doubt about it.
46:07Your second opinion.
46:08The very fact I put it in my book, his biography, I wouldn't do that if these were not facts.
46:20So that is why the Ramayan that is associated with Ramanan Sagar is at a level by itself.
46:27Spiritual level.
46:28It's on a spiritual level by itself.
46:31No comparison with anything.
46:32I remember at times, in shooting in one day, the dialogues didn't come.
46:38I went to him.
46:39He said, what am I going to do?
46:40I am not coming.
46:41My hand is not coming.
46:42Like writer's block.
46:43So, what am I going to do?
46:44Oh, Hanuman Ji, come and tell me.
46:45And the dialogues came.
46:46He said, Hanuman Ji, come and tell me.
46:47He had that kind of belief.
46:48That kind of belief and some connection.
46:49Yeah.
46:50Yeah.
46:51Yeah.
46:52Yeah.
46:53He could not die from Hanuman Ji outside the temple.
46:54He would get his dialogue.
46:55He was sent here to make Ramayan to bring the lost tenements of Sanatana back.
46:56To today's youth.
46:57And, uh.
46:58He was sent here to make Ramayan to bring the lost tenements of Sanatana back to today's
47:24youth.
47:25And, uh.
47:26To change the Sanskriti of Jeeves in Bharat.
47:31And bring Sanatana back.
47:35And that is why it stays unparalleled.
47:37And it will never have.
47:39The other day somebody asked me, will you make Ramayan?
47:42What will you make?
47:44I said, I am sorry, boss.
47:46I will never make this Ramayan.
47:48It's a classic of a different level.
47:50Yes.
47:51Can Mona Lisa be re-done?
47:52Can Raja Ravi Varam hear you?
47:53Right.
47:54Right.
47:55Not possible.
47:56Right.
47:57Thank you so much, Prem.
47:58Jai Shri Ram Bharti Ji.
48:00Lovely talking to you.
48:01Jai Shri Ram to your viewers.
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