00:00Hey guys, just a quick heads up. This is Leia, and due to some technical issues, my audio quality is pretty bad.
00:08We are really sorry about that. But don't worry, you can hear Anthony and Jason just fine.
00:15Hope you enjoy the interview.
00:18Thank you for taking the chat. Today we are at Gamescom, and I played Borderlands for today,
00:23and you gave me a little presentation at the beginning of the day.
00:27And now I have some more follow-up questions from the presentation at the gameplay that I experienced.
00:33And I would like to start with something that I noticed.
00:38I have a feeling that you focused a lot on improving the gameplay, improving the shooter experience,
00:46going way into the shooter-shooter business.
00:50And that was what I was basically noticed the most, and you, in my opinion, tried to modernize a lot of stuff.
00:58Am I correct in that?
00:59Yeah, for sure. You know, we know and we listened to the community and heard a lot of feedback about how well done the gameplay for Borderlands 3 was.
01:08And so we wanted to see that and match and then exceed.
01:12You know, there were moments early, early, early in development where that was the goal.
01:17Get back to where we were in Borderlands 3 and then go up from there and improve that.
01:23But yeah, we talked a little bit about our traversal mechanics or, as Jason and I like to call them, combat mechanics.
01:29Because that's where we use them most and it feels really fun doing that.
01:32But that and added loot rarity and trying to get those things really in tune and feeling good so that blues and greens feel viable again and feel more strong.
01:42And then legendaries, you can be freaking out whenever you see one.
01:45They're not just all over the place. Like, we really cared about tuning and getting all of that feeling really, really good for gameplay.
01:52Yeah, and it's really all about harnessing, on my side at least in the combat, is harnessing those movement abilities that we were giving the player the power that they have now.
02:01It's really about giving them lots of options and trying to encourage them to use them as much as possible.
02:07Like, let's play vertically. That's completely different for Borderlands 4.
02:11It's actually approaching combat spaces in a vertical manner instead of only, you know, just going straight. You know, it just has changed the battlefield.
02:20Yes, I noticed that a lot when I was playing. I approved through my play session a lot when I started to use...
02:29Yes. Yes.
02:31...like this gliding that you can't do and just jump on a tree or I felt all bad and then I was like, wait, you can just go back.
02:39And that was how I was approved for the slide that you put in there.
02:44Yes.
02:45Like, I felt really so much more free.
02:50Yeah.
02:51Oh my gosh. It's almost a zen kind of kinetic feeling that you get. Once you start chaining all those together, as well as using your action skill and all these new weapons, you start just layering all these different power fantasies almost, you know, and taking advantage of all these options.
03:07And actually, it just feels very freeing, just like you said, to actually just use that. And you just feel amazing. You feel like a superhero.
03:14Yeah. It's so fun. Like whenever you're driving across the seamless world and you come across a combat or a Rift champion or something that has spawned out in the world.
03:24And you're, I'll be cruising along, boost on my on my Digit Runner and then jump off of it, double jump up, glide in, rain down fire, grapple like a propane tank, throw it down and then butt slam the enemies and then get to work.
03:38It's like, that was just my intro.
03:40Exactly my experience. Like I just started to think about, wait, you can do a double jump. Wait, you can also have to have the hook. So maybe if I combine those different actions.
03:50Yeah.
03:51Yeah, it's extremely fluid, especially with the way the controls are laid out too.
03:57Yeah. Another thought that I had was, I noticed, and maybe it was also just the part that you showed us, but it was, or you also showed in the presentation that you go in a bit more darker, which again, the maps also felt a little bit like it, the gameplay.
04:15I can't explain it exactly, but maybe you can explain my feeling to me back and just, I was thinking this borderless grow up. And I can't explain to you why I felt that, but maybe you have liked it.
04:29Part of that, I think, if I may real quick is the cohesiveness that we've had to create in the world. You know, if you really think about what we used to be able to make, we would make levels, you'd have a level transition, show up somewhere else.
04:42And we could kind of be a little fuzzy about how large that thing is and what's the route inside there, all that stuff. But with the seamless world, you know, everything is real, you know, it's a more realized world.
04:55Everything is affected. Every, everyone, the river that you see going through there has to hit all the other different points of interest.
05:01And it has to like, be fully realized, like we're creating a large world that is all interconnected. And I think that creates a more mature kind of setting and as well as our dynamic lighting time of day and all that being real systems.
05:18And then you add on our dynamic events with patrols that are actually walking down the road or creatures that are actually walking through the forest, just makes it feel more real, more mature.
05:29Yeah, no, I think that's very well said. And, you know, I think on top of that, as you, as we develop games and as, you know, we, we kind of iterate and move forward, we grow up as well.
05:42And the players grow up alongside of us. And so there's, there's an approach there that is improving, but also looking at things with a different lens so that we can continually try to make things better and better and better.
05:54But then I think also, you know, with the, with the stakes that we have in this one, the timekeeper and what they are like, it is much more serious. Like the entire planet is in danger because of what this person is doing.
06:07And so it changes and you see how the environmental storytelling goes into play and how different factions have, have rose up and tried to fight back. And so you get to see that on the, in all of the level art and our level artists have done an amazing job of really helping to realize that and get some of that tone.
06:25But, you know, in the fade fields, it's, it's, it's, it's also different than what it has been in, in our past games, where it's much more lush and beautiful, but, but there's still those different pockets where you can see like, oh yeah, something bad has happened to this planet.
06:39Yeah. It's also great to make another question. Now, I wrote down Protea that I really love. And it's, uh, from Casey Crowley. She's also, and she was sat in a book and started to make someone laugh and to make someone cry.
06:55And I was thinking, and I was thinking, and you were also telling us in the presentation that you also tone down a little bit more and in retro perspective for Borderlands 3.
07:09Why do you think that the humor here maybe didn't click that well, the, uh, players then for, or why did you change it?
07:18Well, I mean, we're, we're really proud of the stories, every story that we've told in each of our games.
07:23And, um, I think we're, what it really boils down to is the context of what story we're trying to tell in Borderlands 3.
07:32It was the twins that very bombastic and crazy and wild.
07:35And they say off the wall things that are very sarcastic. Whereas the timekeeper in Borderlands 4 is very serious.
07:43He believes that his cause and he's very sheltering and secretive and in what he's doing.
07:49So that naturally just changes the way that the characters will interact in their environments and throughout the missions and, and how the world is being presented to them.
08:01Yeah, that's interesting. So the approach was that the timekeeper was basically at the beginning to develop the story.
08:08Yeah. Uh, yeah. So that was one of the things, obviously we have a billion things that we, we write on a whiteboard or, or like I write on a, on a desk.
08:17Cause we have these glass tables, but it's, it's like, what, what's really compelling? What, what feels good?
08:23What feels like something we haven't done before? Um, what feels like something that will allow us the freedom to be able to express what players are able to do in the game.
08:34And this whole, this whole, this whole, um, kind of theme of breaking free. Well, to be able to break free, you have to been tied down or, or, you know, very locked in to be able to do that in the first place.
08:47Yes. Yes. There's one thing that I actually really always wondered. And, uh, I want to go back to one of your older games and that's Bornalex 2.
08:57And when we were already talking about the villains, like with Hatsu Jack Cubates.
09:02We create one of the most iconic villains that is the round, like everyone knows I love.
09:08It is.
09:09Is that sometimes a lot of pressure to come up with the villain to get to that?
09:17Yeah, for sure. You know, I think every, every artist, every creator has, has that, that thing that they're constantly trying to, to either look up to or, or surpass.
09:29And, uh, but that's not, that's, that's not our goal, right? Like we're not saying like, Oh, that was, that was done this way.
09:35Uh, now we have to do everything to make sure that that's the case. It's not only, we have super creative and very talented writing staff.
09:42And along with all of the, the directors and leads on our project who all lend themselves to what the story is and how we're telling it and what the characters are able to do throughout.
09:51Yeah. They're all separate stories and they all have different meanings. And, you know, it's just inspiring to be able to take it in all these different avenues.
09:58Yeah. You have only one fish left and it's crazy.
10:02Uh oh.
10:03Because today in the presentation, you were so hyped up about swimming.
10:07Uh huh.
10:08Can you tell me why? And you, you really, I could see it.
10:12I mean, I'm going to outline, why are you so happy to tell us about swimming?
10:17Because I have worked with so many great level designers and level artists and we've created all these like awesome beach side resorts or this awesome place where, you know, you remember in Borderlands 2 where, uh, the, the map with Bloodwing and you have this, you're on the, on a dock and everything.
10:34You're like, this is amazing. But if the player slightly missteps and he falls, he's in the, into that water, he's dead, you know, and that is not, not fun.
10:43I'd much rather allow the player to swim, maybe approach it from a different angle.
10:47All the things that this game now lets me do. It's insane.
10:51We have islands inside the map.
10:53Now you can swim over to him or you can swim through the sewer and show up somewhere else.
10:58So now I can hide things that are like, that's what's a lever level designers dream is to be able to hide some of the, some stuff like nooks and crannies everywhere and actually put some little treasures in places.
11:07The more ways I can do that. And with all these movement abilities, we have it everywhere.
11:11Treasure behind the wall.
11:12Yes, exactly. There always is.
11:15Thank you so much for your time.
11:17Thank you.
11:18I actually really love it.
11:19Awesome.
11:20Thank you so much.
11:21Thank you very much.
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