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00:00the question that i wanted to ask about the idea of india so right now when we look at news and
00:14anyone who is reasonably aware would know that you know we are living in a world of identity politics
00:18and societal changes and everyone you talk to they have their own idea of india based on what
00:24side of political spectrum they are on and so on so i wanted to ask you in this tnh how do we preserve
00:32and evolve the idea of india and what it is according to you the india is not really an idea first thing
00:40ideas are things of the ego ideas or things of desire and imagination
00:59behind every idea is an ideator and the ideator is looking
01:04uh to get something for himself via the idea
01:14that's not what india is
01:18nation we talk of the indian nation
01:24what is a nation first thing
01:29basics fundamentals what is a nation
01:34nation
01:40is a set of people it could be a very large set of people
01:46it could be a billion people it could be five billion people the number doesn't matter
01:52it's a set of people
01:53people who are together on some ground
02:03you get this
02:06who are united
02:08on some basis
02:11some basis
02:12right now that doesn't seem like a very deep thing to say
02:22because whenever people are together
02:25obviously there is some or the other basis present
02:28that basis is the basis of nationhood
02:43and just as
02:46all the reasons
02:48the foundations that bring people together
02:52are not of the same quality
02:59similarly
03:01the foundations of all nations are not equally deep
03:06how deep is the foundation of a nation
03:16depends on
03:19the depth
03:21of what keeps
03:23those people together
03:25right
03:30five
03:32people may come together to have a good time in the evening
03:39nothing else to do
03:42have a spare hour
03:44let's just go out and gossip
03:47and that's what
03:49is keeping them together at this hour
03:52now this is togetherness on a very flimsy basis
03:56no
03:58a basis is indeed present
04:01but the basis has no depth
04:03these five people have come together
04:07due to some little shallow reason
04:09this togetherness
04:14will bring
04:16no goodness to
04:18these five
04:20or to the others
04:22right
04:24similarly nations
04:28have their basis
04:33after all
04:34all that you need is
04:37a set of people
04:38a community
04:39where people identify
04:40with each other
04:41right
04:41they say we are
04:42we are one
04:42we are together
04:43we have something in common
04:48i'm more like this one
04:50than that one
04:53i identify with this one
04:56what is the basis of that identification
05:00why do these people
05:05think of each other
05:08as
05:09as brothers and sisters
05:14or members of one community
05:17that's the question to be asked
05:20and that's a very very important question
05:24because mind you
05:28we have seen
05:31history tells us that nations
05:33can even be founded
05:35on very
05:39narrow kind of
05:44basis
05:47very shallow foundations
05:51there are instances
05:54of nations where the founding principle
05:57was food habits
06:01we all eat the same way therefore
06:03we are a nation
06:08there are a lot of nations
06:11in the modern world where
06:13one of the important basis
06:16is language
06:17we speak the same language
06:18therefore we are a nation
06:19and what to say of geography
06:28we live in areas
06:32that are geographically close by
06:34or adjacent to each other
06:39materially contagious
06:40therefore we are a nation
06:50are you getting it
06:54so you live
06:56in the house next to mine
06:58hence you are my brother
06:59this kind of a logic
07:03what makes you all
07:05call each other
07:06brothers and sisters
07:08well you know
07:09we all live
07:11within one kilometer of each other
07:13hence we are brothers and sisters
07:16there are so many nations
07:17that are founded on this
07:21we all
07:24live at places that lie
07:26next to each other
07:27therefore we are
07:29a nation
07:30one nation
07:31and why are those people
07:35not the same nation
07:36because they live far away
07:39hence they are separate
07:42we can even call them enemies
07:44because they live
07:45at a distant place
07:50does this make any sense
07:51it makes no sense
07:53color of the skin
07:55i am green
07:59you are green
08:00so we are a nation
08:06we all are
08:08little
08:09green men and women
08:10therefore we constitute a nation
08:15and they are tall blue ones
08:17so they are
08:19aliens
08:19what kind of
08:26unity is this
08:27what kind of identity is this
08:32ethnicity
08:34genetics
08:37well
08:40purity of blood
08:42whatever that means
08:43of course religion
08:51the huge elephant in the room
08:56we follow the same belief system
08:58the same dogma
09:00the same books
09:03the same god therefore we are a nation
09:05are you getting it
09:15so mostly nations are founded on such things
09:22we follow the same tradition hence we are a nation
09:26you look at the seven of us
09:27we believe
09:31in the same superstitions therefore we are a nation
09:39now this is
09:41this is divisive
09:42this is violent
09:45this is full of ignorance
09:48this leads to suffering for one and all
09:50fortunately
09:58india
10:03has a much
10:04deeper national foundation
10:10and hence i said india is not an idea
10:17what is the foundation
10:20india was wise enough
10:23to realize
10:25that anything
10:28coming from the human mind is going to be limited
10:34that's what india did
10:37went into itself
10:39when the entire world
10:43was taking an outward direction india went into itself
10:48and going within it realized
10:51the limits within the pettiness within
10:54the constraints within the darkness within
10:59the ideator within the one who keeps coming up with these smart ideas
11:06how stupid is that ideator
11:09you realize only when you
11:11you develop the courage to look at yourself
11:16so india said you know
11:18two people coming together on the basis of an idea or thought or principle
11:29can never be a truly great thing
11:32i believe in something you to believe in something we share thoughts
11:39so we come together and we call ourselves a nation that can never be a good thing
11:43now once you say that all possible
11:51principles that could become
11:54the foundation of indian nationhood
12:01they go out of the window
12:02because everything is mental
12:04and what is coming from the mind
12:07would be little and divisive
12:10i'm saying india saw that
12:11so what did india then put above all nationalistic principles
12:20india said
12:22ruthless inquiry into the self
12:24we will not stand for a principle
12:31we will stand for a detached investigation
12:36into all principles
12:44we will not stand for a dogma we will stand for freedom from all dogmas
12:53we will not stand for a particular idea
12:55we will not stand for anything under the sun
13:11we will stand for liberation from everything under the sun
13:14we will not stand we will not stand for any product of the mind we will stand for freedom from the tyranny of the mind
13:33are you getting it this is the foundation of the indian nation this is what india stands for
13:38so all nations are governed by principles and india is governed by freedom from all principles and that's what makes india
13:53free liberal accommodative tolerant
13:59and therefore inherently extremely strong and vibrant
14:02but only as strong and only as vibrant as is the depth of the indians understanding
14:17about the reality of india
14:26what i'm talking of is in some sense a utopia
14:32you go to most people and they will say you know this is this particular ideal
14:39that governs india
14:42or these principles
14:46that are at the foundation of india no no no
14:52india
14:55is
14:57an ever existing quest to rise higher
15:01never stopping at any principle
15:07yes this movement some principle might look good
15:12socialism looks good
15:14but i'm not stopping here i'm not turning it
15:18into into a dogma i'm not turning it into a belief system
15:24i'll keep striving for something yet higher that is india
15:37the upward glance
15:41my innocent child looking at the sky
15:43so do there have to be limits
15:52no no no no
15:57ultimate freedom that is india that is at the base of the indian nation
16:02and as long as that remains as at the base of the indian nation
16:09india will remain eternal
16:15india is not a political construct india is not a thing on the world map
16:22these are small things
16:25the maps of the world keep changing no
16:321947
16:35the map of india didn't have go and seek him
16:37pre-1947 british india included
16:50fish hour and dhaka
16:55and there have been times
16:57times when even
17:03kabul
17:05and southeast asia
17:08and burma
17:12politically they were integrated into india
17:18all that is the flow of time india stands for the timeless
17:23india as a nation india is extremely unique
17:38all nations have a principle to govern them
17:44india has inquiry to govern itself
17:48india realized
17:50all principles are limited
17:53all principles will ultimately breed violence
17:59and all principles will ultimately
18:01be destroyed all principles contain within themselves their own destruction
18:15the typical dialectics you have a principle and some opposing principle will come up
18:23and then you will have something else
18:26and if you are invested too heavily in the principle
18:29you will have heartbreak and you will have heartbreak and you will suffer
18:421947 political independence
18:46then you will have faith that's when you said you will have spent two years here so
18:55religion we are a nation why because we are all Muslims so even though the two
19:06wings East and West Pakistan are separated by thousands of miles of
19:11Indian territory yet we are one united nation Pakistan did that last can that
19:21last can that last you had Muslims here you had Muslims there in East and in West
19:33the ones in West didn't give much importance to the fact that the ones in
19:41East were fellow Muslims when elections were held for the Central Assembly the
19:55parliament the Pakistani parliament and Mujib got a majority the fellow Muslims in
20:08the West refused to let him form the government but you are a nation and you
20:15said that if we follow the same religion then we are brothers that didn't happen
20:23ego trumps everything ego does not care for any principle all principles are for
20:33the ego no principle is bigger than the ego whenever there will be a clash
20:38between the ego and even the most most elevated most sublime most refined of
20:45principles the ego will win and how violently did it win
20:5571 71 has been one of the biggest genocides of the last century obviously we know of the
21:07Holocaust but what happened in Bangladesh was terrible
21:17it's not just that the Hindus there were butchered Muslims were slaughtering Muslims that kind of basis
21:29of nationhood does not hold you know we are a nation because we are one religion
21:35that's what Jinnah came up with no Hindus and Muslims are two nations no sir
21:41religion does not suffice you really hold a people together people can live truly together only when
22:03they are united by the truth an unwavering commitment to the truth and that's what India stands for
22:11that's what India at least should stand for an unwavering commitment to the truth
22:21not to fanaticism not to hooliganism
22:33not to some nationalistic idea but to the truth itself and to to a great extent India has successfully
22:52done that over the centuries and that's why even when we did not politically exist as a state yet we
23:02always existed as a nation isn't that beautiful they could come and take political control of our
23:13territory that's fine we fought back but would have been much worse had we allowed them to take control of
23:26our insides the foundation of India is freedom itself we do not want to be dominated on the outside but much more than the outside it is extremely unacceptable that somebody dominates us within I do not allow even myself to dominate me within
23:54my interiors are a space so clean I do not allow myself to step there how will I allow anybody else to intrude that is India to a lot of people this would be obtruse
24:16they will say this is all just too abstract it is not abstract you must understand this if you want to truly call yourself Indian
24:34India is the eye that wants to understand I want to know I don't want to dream I want to know that's what India is that's the beauty and greatness of India
24:50India and if Indians refuse to see and know then Indians can no longer call themselves beautiful or great India will always remain great and beautiful but there is no guarantee that Indians would be
25:18would be automatically great and beautiful it's a choice it's a price you have to pay it is always very comfortable within your belief system within the paradigm of your assumptions and superstitions and desires
25:46it requires guts to be a true Indian one has to fight the battle within
25:53else you can develop any kind of random way to separate man from man
26:05you have lived in campus hostel haven't you yeah two campuses do campus hostels so so have I know you enter the campus as a fresher and you are allotted a particular hostel and the allotment is often quite random it depends on your entry number
26:34or your rank or some other random criteria. Maybe the letter your name
26:42begins with some criteria and you are allotted a particular hostel and then
26:51you are supposed to be loyal to the hostel and you are supposed to fight the
26:54other hostels down. What kind of basis of unity is this? Random, so random and you
27:04are supposed to commit your energies to this? And you are supposed to really take
27:10the other hostels as your enemy? Did that happen at ID Bombay?
27:19That was one of the first things that happened in first year. Same at IT Delhi.
27:26Just that, obviously we all knew it was for fun. But then some of us did take it way
27:34too seriously.
27:41Then you are a kind of traitor if you didn't participate in inter-hostel wars.
27:48There were instances in which people were actually beaten up.
27:55You can find any random way to divide people. Within the hostel there were regional groups.
28:11So there was this group from Bihar, there was this group from Andhra, obviously from
28:21Tamil Nadu and you know all the places, Gujarat. You name the region and you have groups there.
28:32You didn't even have to have an entire state. We had a Lucknow gang. Even city suffices. We are together because we belong to the same city. And hence everybody else is an alien. Let's be divided.
28:39The ego is always looking to create boundaries. Only within boundaries can
28:46the ego survive. Now there is a kind of nationalism.
28:53that deepens those boundaries.
29:00And there is a kind of nationalism that destroys boundaries.
29:07India stands for the latter. Are you getting it?
29:14Are you getting it? Just because you are born on Indian territory, it is a kind of nationalism.
29:21There is a kind of nationalism that destroys boundaries. India stands for the latter. Are you getting it?
29:37So, just because you are born on Indian territory, the subtle fact is that you do not qualify to be called a real Indian.
29:55Obviously, technically you will be an Indian. You will hold the Indian passport and the entire world would call you an Indian.
30:06But you do not become an Indian by your place of birth. You become an Indian by your heart. Do you value freedom? Do you have love for the truth?
30:27Can you lay down your life for something beyond yourself? If yes, then you are an Indian. If no, then you are just
30:35an Indian in name. The kind of Indians who think Indian less nice in cheering for the cricket team.
30:47Or beating other people down. Or berating other countries.
30:56And avoiding to pay taxes while doing all that.
31:12India is a spirit and the spirit that you find in Vedanta.
31:40The spirit that does not impose anything on the mind. A spirit that just asks. Asks. The spirit that says I want to know.
31:53Does not say I already know. Does not say my beliefs are correct. Says no. I am prepared to question everything.
32:00I will not let any consideration be too much on me. Nothing is bigger than truth.
32:13And that is why you see India knows love. Because true love can only be towards the truth. All else is just attraction born of desire.
32:31Because India. Because India respected. And I hope it still does. The truth. Hence India has known love. A love beyond territory. A love beyond ethnicity.
32:58A love beyond ethnicity. A love beyond materiality.
33:13A true Indian would be a true Indian would be a fighter and a lover. He fights. What is untrue? Because he loves the truth.
33:20He fights. What is untrue? Because he loves the truth.
33:27A love beyond ethnicity.
33:28A love beyond ethnicity.
33:29A love beyond ethnicity.
33:30A love beyond ethnicity.
33:31A love beyond ethnicity.
33:32A love beyond ethnicity.
33:33A love beyond ethnicity.
33:34A love beyond ethnicity.
33:35A love beyond ethnicity.
33:36A love beyond ethnicity.
33:37A love beyond ethnicity.
33:38A love beyond ethnicity.
33:39A love beyond ethnicity.
33:40A love beyond ethnicity.
33:41A love beyond ethnicity.
33:42A love beyond ethnicity.
33:43A love beyond ethnicity.
33:44A love beyond ethnicity.
33:45A love beyond ethnicity.
33:46A love beyond ethnicity.
33:47A love beyond ethnicity.
33:48A love beyond ethnicity.
33:49A love beyond ethnicity.
33:50A love beyond ethnicity.
33:51A love beyond ethnicity.
33:52A love beyond ethnicity.
33:53A love beyond ethnicity.
33:54A love beyond ethnicity.
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