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00:00Dune Awakening ist seit knapp zwei Monaten draußen und Dune Awakening ist es gelungen eine große
00:18Spielerzahl zu begeistern, mehr als jedes andere Funcom-Spiel zuvor. Dune Awakening hat aber auch
00:26sehr viele Themen, die gerade in der Community heiß diskutiert werden und zum Glück Entwickler,
00:31die sehr offen darüber sprechen und genau das werden wir heute tun mit dem Game Director Joel
00:37Byles, der hier zu Gast ist bei uns. Nice to have you Joel, thanks for coming. Thank you very much for having me, great to talk to you.
00:44Und auch wieder dabei natürlich mein MMO-Experte für Dune Awakening, World of Warcraft und ganz viele
00:50andere Spiele, Benedikt Rothaus. Schön, dass du auch wieder da bist. So Joel,
00:56Es ist schon zwei Monate seit dem Release, ein bisschen mehr als zwei Monate,
01:00eigentlich. Und ihr seid sehr offenbar über alles in dem Game zu sprechen,
01:07so es wird ein guter Gespräch sein, glaube ich. Sure.
01:10Aber erst einmal wissen Sie, was in deinem Kopf ist, was jetzt in deinem Kopf angefangen hat?
01:13Die Game wurde sehr erfolgreich. Ich glaube, es war Ihr größte Erfolg so far,
01:18in terms der Spieler-Base. Was ist passiert?
01:22Well, I mean, there's always this big stress leading into the launch, and you don't really know what's going to happen.
01:29And then things sort of went okay.
01:32I think so.
01:33It was good.
01:33And what we're seeing now with the game, which is kind of exciting, but also kind of stressful for me,
01:39is like people are very addicted, and they're playing the game a lot.
01:43And then they're running out of things to do.
01:46And then they're getting mad.
01:47And then they're going to Steam and downrating the game.
01:49So now I need to fix that.
01:51160 hours played.
01:55Nothing to do in this game.
01:56Don't like it.
01:57I saw one review on Steam.
02:011,000 hours played.
02:02This game sucks.
02:04And I did the calculation.
02:05That guy's been playing 12 hours a day since we launched.
02:08So, okay.
02:09It's okay.
02:10He got his $50 worth.
02:12It's always this weird relationship that people get with MMOs.
02:15You know it also that you get so passionate, you complain about things,
02:20and you don't see that, actually, you kind of love this game, and that's why you're mad.
02:25But it's like a breakup, right?
02:26Yeah.
02:27You were together with this thing that you loved, and then it kind of ended badly.
02:31Yeah.
02:31And then you end up hating it.
02:32And what's bad for you is I also kind of are in this boat, so I also have a lot of questions.
02:38But I'm still playing and having fun, of course.
02:41But I think we have a lot to talk about, though.
02:44Perfect.
02:44And you guys just released this big plan for the future, what you guys want to do,
02:49what you guys want to address in the game.
02:52Since it just came out, would you like to summarize it a little bit?
02:57Like, what are the things you guys are mainly focusing on for the near future, let's say?
03:02Sure.
03:02So starting in a few days, we have this event beginning in the game, which leads into our Chapter 2 update.
03:11Our Chapter 2 update has two sections.
03:13There's free content, continuing the main storyline, dynamic events in the world, new quest lines for players to explore.
03:22And then we have the paid DLC, which is another set of quests, some new dungeons,
03:27and cosmetic rewards, including a new vehicle, which we call the Treadwheel.
03:32So that's the very short term.
03:34And then beyond that, because we launched the game, we're now looking at the end game
03:37and how people are reacting to the way that the end game was.
03:40And we're building out the plan for how we're going to expand on the end game.
03:43We're going to work towards making more PvE activities for people in the end game.
03:48And we're going to push the Deep Desert back towards what it was originally intended to be,
03:52which is this PvP sandbox.
03:54So kind of separating the two types of players so that they don't get angry at each other and at us.
03:59And then kind of giving them their own paths of progression through the game.
04:04I mean, this probably is like the hardest part to manage these expectations of the two player bases,
04:08because you can see it on Reddit all the time.
04:11Yes.
04:11Half of the players are saying like,
04:13we want PvP, we don't want these PvE players to go to the places where it's been PvP only.
04:20And on the other hand, PvE players are like, okay, I don't want to do PvP.
04:25Yeah.
04:25So, yeah, you guys sort of like got the hardest job ahead of you guys to find stuff to do for both of these people, right?
04:34Yeah.
04:34I mean, it's a challenge, but it's kind of fun as well, because when the game is out, you get to work with them.
04:40You're actually seeing what players change in real time.
04:43When you put an update out and they react, you know what to do.
04:45You know what to change.
04:46So, it's kind of, I think it's fine.
04:48It's like a little bit scary.
04:50And, of course, I'm not super happy about getting thumbs down all the time on Steam.
04:54But at the end of the day, the reality is you just got to keep pushing forward and working to try and get through these things.
04:59Yeah.
05:00But did I read that right that you guys, in terms of the deep desert, which was like what you changed, you made a half of it PvE.
05:07Are you going back on that and you're sending PvE players to a different part of the game?
05:13Not until we fix activities for the PvE players.
05:17Once we get the PvE players to have the right amount of activities in other places, then we can think about bringing the deep desert back towards what it was originally intended to be.
05:28So, we will fix the end game for PvE players first, before we make any changes like that.
05:33So, no one gets worried that one day they're going to wake up and they're in a PvP zone.
05:37Yeah.
05:37So, how's the end game loop going to be changing in Chapter 2?
05:41In Chapter 3?
05:422.
05:43Oh, Chapter 2.
05:43The end game loop doesn't have much in Chapter 2, to be honest, because the development of Chapter 2 was started before we launched.
05:50So, there was a plan, we're working towards that.
05:53So, I think the only thing that you'll find in Chapter 2 that really pertains to end game, I mean, we are making small changes.
05:58Like, we're increasing vehicle storage, so getting in and out of the desert is easier.
06:02We're changing a few things.
06:03We're working on a salvage system for vehicles, so once your vehicle gets destroyed or if it goes down and goes missing, you can bring it back to where you are and either repair it or quickly get back up and running.
06:15So, I need to stop you right there because that's big news, so if it gets shut down, you can get it back for like a fee and then repair it, so you don't lose it in that?
06:26Yes, that is the plan.
06:27We're going to add the salvage system, probably to the vehicle backup tool that allows you to summon a broken vehicle.
06:34So, it will be broken, but you can still repair it.
06:36I mean, it might not be broken, right?
06:37You can summon it if you've lost it.
06:39So, that's kind of the plan.
06:41We're going to have the salvage system coming very soon.
06:43And then, but yeah, Chapter 2 has more content than anything focused on endgame.
06:49Chapter 3 is where I'm kind of putting all the endgame stuff because obviously that's our next big update.
06:55Can I just quick tour to the DLC you also foreshadowed?
07:00As far as I saw, you put a questline in it, right?
07:05In the paid DLC.
07:06Yes.
07:06Which is quite different than what you did with Conan Exiles.
07:09Yes.
07:09Why?
07:09Well, one of the things we like to do is provide people with the value of playing the game.
07:17So, cosmetic DLCs are all well and good.
07:19There is a cosmetic DLC in the future.
07:21But the idea was we want people to feel like they earn the rewards that they get through.
07:26So, all the rewards are cosmetics.
07:27But we want people to feel like they play a questline that introduces them to why these cosmetics exist and what they have to do with the world.
07:34And we also feel like there's more value for people playing the game.
07:38You know, that's the way we think about it.
07:40So, yeah.
07:41That's kind of it.
07:41I mean, you have battle passes, right?
07:43And battle passes exist to make people both play a game and pay.
07:47Right?
07:48And we were like, well, if we're going to have a DLC, let's try to give people about eight hours of good content as well.
07:53So, they feel like they get their money's worth of play time as well.
07:55So, looking at the bigger picture, I mean, this game is such a unique genre mix, really, between survival and MMO.
08:04And I think you guys really delivered on that.
08:06So, comparing that with other theme park MMOs that we know, how are you guys looking to the future to expand on that?
08:14Like, is it going to be in future add-ons?
08:18Are you guys adding like a T7, like a T8?
08:21So, you get another bigger type of progression in terms of materials?
08:26Are you guys bringing new stories, new areas to the game?
08:32Or is it going to be broader, but T6 is like the peak and it only gets wider and wider?
08:39Like, are you looking for that same progression that theme park MMOs usually do?
08:43I think we'll increase the tiers, yes, over time.
08:46What we'll do when we do that is we'll add more tiers and we'll decrease the grind for the tier 6.
08:51So, the top tier will always be the hardest to get.
08:53Ah, okay, yeah.
08:54So, if we add tier 7, then tier 6 will become easier.
08:57We'll make the recipes easier to get, make the resources less intense.
09:02But then tier 7 will be the one where it's more intense.
09:04Because the top tier is always intended for guild play, right?
09:07People playing in groups or with big guilds.
09:09There is an element of like how we set up rewards in the Landsrad that is coming.
09:13It's supposed to encourage solo players as well, giving them more daily rewards and for logging in.
09:19More like mission-based, but not contract-based.
09:22Contract-based, yeah, that's cool.
09:23Putting in the Landsrad so that instead of it being this big dump of resources and items,
09:28people are actually going and doing activities in the world to solve the Landsrad.
09:31So, new contracts all the time so you're not like done once you're through all of them.
09:36Yeah, and you can find different types of contracts.
09:38I put some examples in my post like assassination and things like that.
09:42So, yeah, it should be hopefully a good change for the endgame.
09:46Yeah.
09:47I want to really like touch on one thing that you already mentioned.
09:50I was going to ask you this, but then you wrote it yourself.
09:53The carrier thopter is going to get storage module or is going to get like a container.
09:58Yeah.
09:59So, this means we will also be able to carry stuff with a carrier thopter to the deep desert then,
10:06because right now with vehicles it doesn't work yet.
10:08Yeah.
10:09Yeah, it's the vehicle harnessing technology.
10:11Yeah.
10:12They turned it off because people were losing vehicles when they were carrying them harnessed.
10:16We're just about ready to turn it back on.
10:18It's almost fixed a hundred percent.
10:20So, it will come online before the storage container.
10:22That's so cool because we're all dreaming about bringing the sand crawler like from the Haggar
10:27basin to the deep desert on our thopter.
10:31Yeah.
10:32And this will also be a container then available if you want to bring...
10:34Yeah.
10:35I mean, that was always the plan.
10:36It's just that technically we saw right before launch that there was a submission.
10:39Okay.
10:40So, we removed that ability.
10:41So, yeah.
10:42You'll be able to carry this giant vault with lots of items storage and bring it to the deep
10:47desert and drop it down and get all your stuff out.
10:49People will be very happy to hear that, I think.
10:51Yeah.
10:52And also, I think you also took it out in the beta that you could with an assault thopter, for
10:59example, with multiple people across the world.
11:02This will also come back at some point.
11:03I hope.
11:04Okay.
11:05The tech team had...
11:06There were some issues with passengers.
11:08Yeah.
11:09Right?
11:10Falling out of them when you travel.
11:11So, we decided to just say, okay, no passengers right now.
11:14So, yeah.
11:15Hopefully, it comes back when the tech is working as it should.
11:18We are making big changes to the tech in the deep desert.
11:21That's very cool.
11:22And another thing in the deep desert that you guys are probably working on is the draw distance
11:27of other players because that's been an issue.
11:29Yeah.
11:30If you're...
11:31Because the idea behind the PvP, of course, is awesome.
11:35And you've seen this in games like Sea of Thieves, where on the horizon you see another
11:39player and you're like, oh, is he coming near us?
11:42Is he staying there?
11:43And this would be so cool to have that in Dune Awakening also and not have somebody spawn like
11:4820 meters in front of you and just bombard you.
11:51It's replication, right?
11:53It's a quadratic problem in multiplayer games.
11:57Yes.
11:58Where you need to replicate the position of everything around somebody to somebody.
12:01And the more players there are, the more players need to know the same information.
12:04So, yes, it's an optimization that the guys are working on.
12:07And it's exacerbated in Dune because if you think about Sea of Thieves, it's kind of on a 2D plane.
12:14You're on water and you see a ship in the distance.
12:16Yeah.
12:17But in Dune, the distance between you and the thing, it can still be 500 meters, but it feels
12:21like 20 because he's up here.
12:23So, he's much closer than it feels.
12:26So, that's the problem.
12:27So, we're optimizing this and it will get longer and longer as we figure it out, right?
12:31So, that is definitely ongoing.
12:33We'll get better.
12:34That's cool.
12:35Yeah.
12:36Yeah.
12:37So, just about...
12:38You just said things have always been planned.
12:40There's one thing that players have been noticing for a while now, which is like that one item
12:46slot in your inventory that's always empty and no item goes in there.
12:49What's it for?
12:50It's for me to have a slot where I can put a cool item in the future.
12:54That's just really cool.
12:56When we developed the paper doll, I said, leave me a slot.
12:59And they said, why?
13:00And I said, because one day I'll find something cool to put in that slot.
13:03And it gives me an opportunity when we come to the expansion and things to add a new item
13:06there, right?
13:07And that will increase, you know, you'll be able to build new things.
13:10There's been a discussion about that there has been a kind of a backpack back in like
13:15some alphas or betas or something.
13:17Was that a thing actually?
13:18A backpack?
13:19Yeah.
13:20Like some kind of inventory enlargement stuff that's been going to the slot.
13:25No.
13:26I've been very clear about this forever.
13:28The sort of game direction on this is when you want to upgrade your inventory, you use
13:32vehicles in our game.
13:33So, we've never had any plans to expand the inventory.
13:37In fact, we made it larger during the beta because of feedback people gave us.
13:41So, it got bigger and bigger.
13:42But we started out with like 15 slots.
13:44It was way too small.
13:45And it got bigger.
13:46But no, the plan was not to add a backpack or personal inventory because we want people
13:51to use the vehicle system in the game as their inventory.
13:54So, that myth busted.
13:55I actually have a question about the base permissions because I was wondering about the
14:01permissions system.
14:02If this is like final or if you guys are working on that also because I feel like it could be
14:06cool to have the ranks a little bit more customizable.
14:09Yes.
14:10Because in my position, I would like to have some people not be co-owners but still give
14:16them like rooms to customize or have them place like machines.
14:22I think there's even written down for the, not the co-owner but the partner that they
14:29can placeables, put placeables in the base.
14:33But this is not at the moment working.
14:35Not working.
14:36Yeah.
14:37So, there are plans to extend on the permission system and try to improve the way that it works
14:41and allow people to set up more custom settings for it.
14:43So, yes.
14:44That is ongoing.
14:45I can't, I don't know which, like which patch version it's sort of set up for.
14:49Yeah.
14:50It would be one of the things that comes.
14:51It won't be something that comes in a big update, it will come between.
14:53It's one of the things the social team is working on.
14:56Yeah, that's cool.
14:57Yeah.
14:58So, about the bases, one of the biggest issues I think I've been reading about and
15:02we've been talking about port is that you lose basically all your stuff when you're
15:06being offline for a month or something.
15:08And a lot of players don't tend to come back after that if they have to start all over
15:12again.
15:13And I think the biggest problem there isn't losing the base itself but everything that's in it
15:17too.
15:18Is there any better way to solve this?
15:21I mean, you can do what Fallout 76 does which is every time you log out you take the base
15:25with you and then you have to place it again every time you log in.
15:28You can also do what Once Human does where everything is collapsible into a single thing.
15:35The biggest issue for us again is because we have live servers and we have new players
15:39coming in, we can't leave a city of bases on Dune.
15:43It just looks terrible.
15:44And it doesn't make the new player feel like they have anywhere to build.
15:47So we saw this in the beta when we ran these big beta weekends.
15:50So we have to clean up.
15:51But one of the things we are doing to tackle this is we're building out the bank because
15:56there is a bank system in the game where you can leave items.
15:59So we're going to make the bank a lot larger so people can keep a lot of stuff in there.
16:02You don't lose what your character has on you ever.
16:05So if you go away for a few months and come back, you'll still have everything you're carrying,
16:09which can include a blueprint of your base.
16:11And so a lot of the materials and things, you can store all of these things in your bank.
16:16You come back and you kind of get up and running within about half an hour.
16:19That's kind of the goal.
16:20But yeah, I agree.
16:21It can be a bit rough if you don't realize that this is going to happen.
16:25So that's one of the things we need to be better about communicating.
16:27We're also going to implement right now we're working on this system where people can put
16:32their email in and then they'll get sent warnings by the game when their base is at risk and
16:37that they might lose their base if they don't come back and refuel.
16:40Just to let people know.
16:41I mean, that's cool.
16:42But also it might be quite hard to expect from people like if you're gone from the game,
16:48you want to keep your base to just log in every time, pay taxes and stuff.
16:53But like he said, I think the main issue isn't the base being gone because you guys are
16:57already improved on the Solido projector.
17:00Now the base is saved completely with all the stuff, with all the machines and everything.
17:05So you can store that actually.
17:07But I think the problem is losing all the stuff.
17:09It's the materials.
17:10Yeah.
17:11And that's what the bank and your personal inventory, you should have enough.
17:16How much larger are we talking then?
17:18Many slots.
17:19Many slots.
17:20Many slots and wait.
17:21But it won't be like enough for a single person to hold a whole guild worth of stuff,
17:25but it should be enough to get you up and running fairly quickly though.
17:28But can you, and then can you use the new freight software thing to bring it there?
17:34Yeah.
17:35Okay, that's good.
17:36And we're also, there's another thing we're going to do, which we call, it's got a terrible
17:40name right now.
17:41It's called care packages.
17:42But it's just like, if you come back to the game after you've been away for six months,
17:46you'll be able to claim a package, which checks like what level you were and gives you kind
17:50of the basic setup of items that you would need.
17:52Wow.
17:53Okay.
17:54So to help people come back as well.
17:55So that might be good.
17:56Yeah.
17:57So with all the, with like, or at least some players leaving, other chances of having like
18:01several mergers or several hops and stuff?
18:04Yeah.
18:05So, so, I mean, we have worlds, right?
18:08Worlds and sieges.
18:09So people can jump between any siege.
18:11So they can move to a more populated siege right now.
18:13The idea is to build in server mergers and character transfers.
18:17So they're working on that as well on the backend right now.
18:19So we don't have it, but we're going to get it in, I don't know, within the next few months.
18:23Cause that's also what, what always like, what feels weird to me in 2025 to meet somebody
18:30and be like, Oh yeah, we're playing both Dune.
18:32Let's play together.
18:33We can, cause we, at the beginning, we decided for a different world.
18:37Yeah.
18:38So we can play together.
18:39So it would be cool to have a transfer feature or to have more sieges in the same world.
18:44Yes.
18:45Um, just so it will be available.
18:48And you guys also approved on that, I think, because now you can just, if you want to go to a different
18:52siege, you can just put a base there.
18:54You're not tied to your home siege anymore.
18:57Yeah.
18:58We changed it.
18:59It's, it's hard, right?
19:00Because the, the, I think the difference between Dune and a traditional MMO is just the freeform
19:05building.
19:06Yeah.
19:07Right.
19:08Being able to build everywhere.
19:09And so, and, and, and that storage is very heavy on the server.
19:11Right.
19:12Being able to replicate all the base pieces to every person who's playing.
19:15Yeah.
19:16Those things make the challenge of like, cause most MMOs, like if you leave, you just, you leave,
19:20your stuff is still there, your levels preserved, but you don't lose a base.
19:24Right.
19:25And, and, and with Dune as well, it's, it's also like being able to move between servers.
19:29Let's say you want to move, but you have a really awesome base and you want to move to
19:32another server.
19:33Yeah.
19:34Do you lose the best spot on the server in terms of where your base is and stuff?
19:37Will you be willing to give it up?
19:39That's always the question.
19:40Yeah.
19:41I mean, if you move, you should lose it.
19:42I know, but it's a, it's a tough discussion.
19:45I should be able to bring my materials with me.
19:48Yeah.
19:49That's what I think though.
19:50Sure.
19:51You mean?
19:52Yeah.
19:53But okay.
19:54So another thing I was wondering is about like guilds are very, I mean, they are a big
19:59part of the end game, of course, but right now in terms of guild features, there's not
20:03so much going on right now.
20:05There's not even like a guild chat system that goes, that you can like communicate if you're
20:12offline.
20:13Are you going to expand on the guild features?
20:15Like maybe even give them some leveling options?
20:18Because I thought like it would be cool to level up the guild with the spice.
20:22Since right now the spice, which is like the most important thing in the Dune universe,
20:28is just used for me to craft stuff.
20:30Yeah.
20:31And then it would also be cool to like deliver it to the Emperor and then raise recognition
20:37for my guild or something like that.
20:38And then have a more deep guild system.
20:42Yeah.
20:43I mean, you have it on the screen, the Landsrad, like showing the guilds that are the top guilds.
20:46So one of the things we're going to focus on is bringing in more rewards for the guilds.
20:51So guilds can like, for example, the exchange.
20:53Yeah.
20:54People have to go to the city right now to use the exchange.
20:56But what we'll probably do is add a way for guilds to get access to an exchange that they
21:00can place in their bases.
21:02And then people can go to the exchange in a guild base.
21:04So yeah, we are planning on expanding the guild offering in terms of like both giving
21:08them more activities, but also increasing how you can rank up your guilds or at least
21:12get access to different placeables and rewards for guilds specifically by competing in the Landsrad,
21:17which is kind of the central political structure that we're pushing for.
21:23So right now you're featuring that free weekend or free week even.
21:28Yeah.
21:29For like new players to try and keep the progress after.
21:32I have a few people who want to start now, but they are wondering about how.
21:38What's like the single most or like three most valuable pieces of advice you can give them?
21:43Cool.
21:44Someone starting the game today.
21:46I mean, it's pretty basic.
21:47Stay off the sand.
21:48Don't get eaten by the sand women.
21:50Do not build on the sand.
21:52Always a terrible idea.
21:53So many people still do it.
21:56It's really funny.
21:57And also kind of sad.
22:00The second piece of advice I would give is stay out of the sun.
22:04Stick to the shade.
22:05Maintain water discipline like the Fremen do in the books.
22:08Pay attention to the integrity of your steel suit.
22:11Keep your water supply up.
22:13The third thing I would say is if you really want to get a flying head start on the game,
22:16if you're struggling with combat or anything like that,
22:19take an ornithopter to the city and buy a weapon from one of the merchants there
22:24that might be a step or two above where you are in the game already.
22:27That will make your life easier in combat for a while.
22:30So you can kind of get into maybe a tier or two above by buying a weapon from the city.
22:35So right at the start of the game, you can get a bit of a step ahead in combat.
22:39So that's kind of what I would say to someone brand new to the game.
22:42It's actually something I didn't know myself with buying weapons.
22:45Because usually in MMOs, no vendor ever is useful.
22:51Well, where else?
22:52It's one thing that I think is quite different about June.
22:54If you start playing the game and you have a friend who's finished the game,
22:57they can give you items and use them from day one.
23:00There's no level restriction.
23:02So we tried to keep it very open because we want people to play together.
23:05And that's kind of one way in which you get sort of guilds like,
23:08oh, we need new blood.
23:10Let's introduce some new players, give them some stuff and get them up and running quickly.
23:14Yeah, I actually quite like that because this is also what happens with me.
23:18Then a lot of players joined later and we could get them up to speed quite fast.
23:23So that was cool.
23:24Yep.
23:25One thing that also, when you read on Reddit on all the takes on Deep Desert and stuff,
23:30there was one interesting idea also that you mentioned in your post, I think.
23:35People said, why not make the Deep Desert, give it a faction-based PvP?
23:40Because then solo players wouldn't be lost and alone because they could sort of like,
23:45look, okay, where is my faction waging war?
23:48Where can I probably go and farm some materials before enemy lines?
23:55And it wouldn't be this wild west where large guilds would just shoot you on the spot.
24:01I heard you're not planning it for the Deep Desert, but you're looking into faction-based PvP modes in a different way.
24:09Yeah, I think we'll do some maps that are faction versus faction on the Overland that aren't the Deep Desert.
24:16The Deep Desert should remain...
24:17Like battlegrounds and other, like, arena...
24:19Even just like a...
24:21I mean, if you think about the strengths of the game and the kind of thing, it's like, imagine a minigame where, you know, one of the...
24:27The Atreides need to build a fortress and the Harkonnen need to come and attack the fortress.
24:30Yeah.
24:31Right?
24:32And so you have a certain amount of time to build the fortress and then people are going to start coming to attack it.
24:35Things like that we can figure out.
24:37There's also a PvE.
24:38That's actually a very cool take on how to implement Dunes mechanics into sort of a game mode, which many MMOs already have.
24:47Yeah, exactly.
24:48So please do that.
24:49Yeah.
24:50Just take...
24:51Everything just takes time.
24:52Yeah.
24:53Like, so it's not...
24:54It's not...
24:55It's not impossible and we will work on these ideas.
24:57The other...
24:58The other side of it, yeah, like there's PvP maps, but we can also do this with PvE maps.
25:02So it can just be, the Atreides need to build a fortress and then Harkonnen troops start spawning.
25:07That are PvE enemies, right?
25:08So it's a horde mode in a way.
25:10So we can do things like that for sure.
25:12Yeah.
25:13Or maybe even like raid stuff.
25:14Did you ever think about like raids?
25:17Many players going like a very large...
25:20We have these large ships in the air.
25:23Why not have them as a raid boss that people will get to attack with lots of Ornithopters?
25:28Or Shaiherud.
25:29Or Shaiherud himself because that would be some payback I was waiting for.
25:35So raids are...
25:39Mechanically they rely on having a certain flow and rhythm to the gameplay.
25:44Yeah.
25:45Like I've designed raids for MMOs in the past so I kind of...
25:48I know specifically how this kind of works.
25:51The thing is the combat in Dune is very intensively...
25:54We made it very fast.
25:55Yeah.
25:56It's very quick.
25:57There isn't a lot of like difference between 5% damage.
26:00And if you bring another person it changes everything.
26:02So designing raids will be hard.
26:04Like Destiny has done it so it's not impossible.
26:07But Destiny also like does a lot of bullet sponge enemies for that stuff.
26:11So it gets very, very intense.
26:13You said it will be hard.
26:14You didn't say it would be hard.
26:16Yeah, yeah.
26:17No, I mean one day.
26:18One day we'll definitely consider it.
26:19But right now it's not the main thing that we're focused on.
26:22Just because I think raids, they require a lot of time.
26:26They require a lot of testing and iteration to get them actually very well balanced.
26:31And our game has such a freeform combat system.
26:34The balancing across that.
26:36Like when you're making a WoW raid, you know what classes you have.
26:39You kind of know what top tier abilities you have.
26:41With our game we don't actually, I mean we kind of know what the best mix could be.
26:45But it'd be hard.
26:46Very hard.
26:47So it's going to require a lot of effort to make actual raids.
26:50But to do raid like things.
26:52Like attacking a spaceship and bringing it down and doing things.
26:55Yeah.
26:56We can work on some things like that for sure.
26:58But with that in mind.
27:00Especially when thinking about more and more Pvd content.
27:03Are you playing on any more classes or something?
27:05Yeah, definitely.
27:06There'll be a new skill tree slash class coming.
27:10Sometime in the next big update.
27:13Yeah, for sure.
27:14That's it.
27:15That's cool.
27:16I can't say which one it is though.
27:18Yeah.
27:19Well, but the thing you said, it's going to be hard.
27:22But I think this is sort of what for me defines Dune Awakening.
27:25That it goes there and it does something that is probably hard.
27:29But you pulled it off for such a large part of the game already.
27:37It feels so satisfying to progress through the tiers and see yourself do a task that used to be a nuisance.
27:48Because you had to go from this shadow spot to this spot and beware of the worm.
27:54And suddenly you're flying over the desert in an ornithopter.
27:57And it's all you're doing.
27:59And I think, please try to keep pulling this off and keep pushing the boundaries.
28:05Because I think this is where the strength lies.
28:08Yeah, thank you.
28:09Yeah, no, it's a...
28:10I think we really nailed the progression and the feeling of progression and the feeling of the way the world opens as you play more.
28:17Like you're suddenly combining things in interesting ways and feeling like the world opens up.
28:22So yeah, no, I appreciate that.
28:23And that's our plan, like to continue doing this.
28:25Yeah, I think the only thing that people are now saying is missing is just this sort of like an endless progression feeling in the end that sort of is like the MMO thing that many MMOs have.
28:40The treadmill.
28:41Just level something.
28:42Keep leveling something up.
28:43Even if it's just meaningless numbers and...
28:46Yeah.
28:47The number go up.
28:49Yeah, we were talking...
28:50We had a summit at work last week to talk about Endgame.
28:53And that was one of the points that like our progression needs to feel like you can continue to progress.
28:58Yeah.
28:59At the moment, it hits a wall.
29:00Yeah.
29:01I understand that.
29:02So we will fix it.
29:03Well, Joel, thank you so much for coming.
29:04And thanks for being so open about it all.
29:06No worries.
29:07I would love to keep in touch with you guys and talk about whenever you have something new to announce.
29:12And yeah, we'll keep playing.
29:15And I'm looking forward to the near future and the Carriathopter container and all the stuff you announced already, but also what is coming in the far future with new updates, add-ons and all the stuff you're adding.
29:29Great.
29:30Thank you so much for coming.
29:31Thank you very much.
29:32Thanks for having me.
29:33Thank you again.
29:34Thank you very much for coming 3 times.
29:35Bye.
29:36Bye.
29:37Bye.
29:38Bye.
29:39Bye.
29:40Bye.
29:40Bye.
29:40Bye.
29:41Bye.
29:43Bye.
29:44Bye.
29:45Bye.
29:47Bis zum nächsten Mal.
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