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00:00I'm gonna get up
00:09Police are at the home of Norma Carriker
00:11after receiving a frantic call from her son
00:14He was heavily drunk but managed to say enough
00:17Someone ran out of the house
00:19and he heard his mother scream
00:20Police department, ma'am
00:23Oh sh**
00:24Norma was already dead
00:27strangled with a bungee cord
00:29In the days that followed, detectives would uncover an extensive list of suspects, each
00:40with their own dark motives, jealous exes, hidden family secrets, a lucrative life insurance
00:46payout, and even a decades old family murder, turning this seemingly simple welfare check
00:51into one of the most twisted homicide cases the town had ever seen.
00:59In the early hours of a Wednesday morning, at 1.30am, police in Troy, Illinois, received
01:27a confusing call from an intoxicated man.
01:31What happened?
01:32Tell me exactly what happened.
01:33I don't know.
01:34My mom must have went on a date last night.
01:36I heard the guy leave out the back door and I didn't hear shit.
01:40And I went up there and heard a dog.
01:41And I went up there and I don't know.
01:42My mom, I didn't hear it.
01:43My mom walked through the house.
01:44My mom ain't responding.
01:45Your mom's not responding?
01:46Does she need an ambulance?
01:47No.
01:48I didn't even want to go in there because they were like bang, bang, bang.
01:49My mom.
01:50Does she need an ambulance?
01:51I don't know.
01:52I have no idea.
01:53Okay, so are you wanting a welfare check done on her then?
01:54Please.
01:55Okay, what is your name, sir?
01:56My name is Neil, N-E-R-L.
01:58The caller struggled to provide clear details, but it was apparent that someone inside the
02:21home was unresponsive.
02:23With limited information, two officers were quickly dispatched to investigate the strange
02:28situation, not knowing exactly what they'd find upon their arrival.
02:32Hi.
02:33What's up?
02:34I hear the dog whining from the basement.
02:37My mom tells me, screws up the kitchen, that she's got a date on the way.
02:43Okay.
02:44I guess it's that date on the computer?
02:47Or on the tenders or whatever?
02:51I don't know.
02:52I'm afraid to go in that room.
02:54I hear the dog whining in that room.
02:56So you live here, sir?
02:57I live in the basement, man.
02:59I opened a heart surgery a year and a half ago.
03:02She turned the country music on real loud so I can't hear.
03:06Oh, she did that?
03:07My mom does it every day.
03:09Blasts it.
03:10Some old sorrow country music.
03:12She misses her husband or whatever, but she's bringing guys into the house.
03:17They have sex with them.
03:18So, unfortunately, she can't do that.
03:21We can certainly check on her, though, and make sure she's okay if you live there.
03:25Please.
03:26Certainly.
03:27Man, the dog is whining.
03:29So you live in this house, though?
03:31I live in the basement.
03:32Okay, so you live here.
03:33That's all I need in this basement.
03:35Man, the dog is trying to get out.
03:40Well, I tell you what, how about this?
03:42How about you go see if you can get her to come out here before we go outside?
03:45Clearly intoxicated, Neil struggled to explain himself.
03:49It sounded like his mother had a date over, but he failed to clarify what was wrong.
03:54Despite their uncertainty, officers followed Neil inside, completely unaware of the gruesome
04:00murder scene they were walking into.
04:03What's up, dude?
04:07You go.
04:08Why do I have to go?
04:09I'm telling you, she ain't gonna get up.
04:11Okay, but you can hear her?
04:12She's not a word.
04:14I just pushed her a couple times.
04:16She's bleeding out the mouth.
04:17She's what?
04:18Bleeding out the mouth.
04:19She's bleeding out the mouth.
04:20She's bleeding out the mouth.
04:25She's bleeding out the mouth.
04:26I like that.
04:27Police department.
04:28Police department.
04:29Police department.
04:31You said she's got blood coming out of her mouth.
04:35I saw her.
04:36She's not.
04:37She didn't call her name, my mom.
04:38I don't believe you.
04:39Ma'am.
04:40I heard a guy.
04:41Oh, shit.
04:42Officer stepped inside to find Neil's mother, Norma Carriker, lying unconscious on her bed,
05:02with a cord wrapped around her neck.
05:04It was clear she'd been strangled.
05:06But Officer Alex quickly realized something else.
05:09She might still be alive.
05:11Hey.
05:12Pop him.
05:13Contain him.
05:14Contain him.
05:15That's right there.
05:16Simple.
05:17Where'd that guy go?
05:19Sir.
05:20I'm out the big door.
05:21Listen, for right now, let's hear me in the face.
05:23146.
05:24Can you roll it here?
05:25You're kidding me?
05:26Listen, you're just being on the table.
05:28Where's he kidding me?
05:29Where's he kidding me?
05:30Where's he kidding me?
05:31Where's he kidding me?
05:32No.
05:33Stop moving.
05:34No!
05:35Oh!
05:36She is.
05:37She appears to be choking.
05:38Somebody strangled her.
05:39I'll be starting CPR.
05:41I'll put him in my car, Miguel.
05:42Look.
05:43Walk him in.
05:44Walk him in.
05:45As Neil was detained and removed from the scene, Officer Alex immediately began performing
05:50CPR on Norma.
05:51She wasn't breathing, but her body was still warm, indicating she had only recently stopped
05:56breathing, and there was still hope she could be saved.
06:00What?
06:01Hey, LT.
06:02Yeah.
06:03Come here real quick.
06:04Come here.
06:05She's still warm to the touch.
06:06Somebody strangled her.
06:07This is homicide, man.
06:08So we have not cleared the rest of the house yet.
06:10Okay.
06:11I'm going to keep working on her.
06:13The son's intoxicated.
06:14He said somebody ran out the back.
06:16No description.
06:17We have him detained in the car.
06:19He's in the car?
06:20We have him detained.
06:21Okay.
06:22I don't know.
06:23He said she had somebody over here, but he said that she was just talking to him a couple
06:27minutes ago.
06:28She's warm.
06:29Oh, that is bad.
06:30No pulse.
06:31Not conscious.
06:32Not breathing.
06:33Officer Alex continued performing CPR for over seven minutes, desperately trying to save Norma's
06:39life.
06:40Paramedics soon arrived and immediately took over, continuing life-saving efforts.
06:44At the same time, officers scrambled to search the property for the man Neil claimed had fled
06:49the scene.
06:50A K-9 unit was dispatched to track any trace of the mysterious suspect.
06:55You might want to get a K-9 track started.
07:00He said somebody ran out the back door.
07:05He's intoxicated.
07:06It looks like somebody wrapped a bungee cord around her neck.
07:09Okay.
07:10Where was Jude at when you got here?
07:11He was outside.
07:12We contacted him.
07:14With you.
07:15He's a towel.
07:161-4-6-1-8-2-0-2-0-2.
07:27Basement stairs leading into the basement.
07:31Heaven south.
07:42Nord, back, door, door slot
07:57Despite their efforts, the mysterious date seemed to have vanished without a trace
08:02And the search revealed no tracks or evidence indicating where he'd gone
08:07Back inside the house, there was nothing the paramedics could do to save Norma
08:12Too much time had passed with her airway blocked and she was declared deceased at the scene
08:17What officers didn't yet realize is that Norma was the wife of the late Charles Carriker
08:23The former mayor of Troy, Illinois
08:25Since then, she's been trying to rebuild her life with her son, Neil Howard
08:30Whose own father had also died tragically years before
08:35These details would become much more important later on in the investigation
08:39But for now, officers had no immediate clues to track down Norma's date
08:45So they brought Neil to the police station
08:48Hoping his sober recollection might help clarify exactly what happened
08:52Initially, investigators believed they had a clear-cut case
08:56Either Neil Howard was responsible for his mother's murder
08:59Or the unidentified date she spent the evening with was
09:03But they had no idea Neil's interview was only the tip of the iceberg
09:07And soon they'd uncover others close to Norma with strong motives to see her dead
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10:35Now, let's get back to the investigation
10:37Hey, Neil
10:39What am I doing here, man?
10:42Do you recall my picture?
10:44You see, here's the thing
10:45You are our only link to any information at this moment
10:48But we have to get the search
10:49Well, you know, I can't go into the photo room
10:52And now I'm calling her in the wrong room
10:54We have to get the search warrant done before we can do anything in there, okay?
10:57Why do I have my error?
10:59Because you're our only link to information, Neil
11:02Without you, we have nothing
11:03I need you over here, though, right?
11:05Sorry, Pat? I'm great
11:07Yeah, sir, I'll get you a bottle of water, just...
11:09It's fine, I'll get it for a good night, man
11:11Mom...
11:13Mom...
11:14Mom...
11:15Mom...
11:16Mom...
11:17Mom...
11:18Mom...
11:19Mom...
11:20Mom...
11:21Mom...
11:22Mom...
11:23At the station, Neil's severe intoxication prevented detectives from reading him his Miranda rights
11:28Or questioning him
11:29They had no choice but to let him sleep it off overnight
11:32Hoping he'd be sober enough later in the day
11:37By morning, police were back at Norma's home
11:40Preparing to speak with family members arriving at the scene
11:43Until now, investigators only had Neil's unreliable story to guide them
11:48However, this would soon change
11:50As officers would unexpectedly cross paths with their next prime suspect
11:55So we're gonna have...
11:57We're gonna let the coroner come out and talk to you, too
11:59Okay
12:00Okay
12:01Kind of explain a little bit about...
12:02Is my mom deceased?
12:03Yes, ma'am
12:04Okay
12:05Yes, ma'am
12:07Is my brother in jail?
12:10Uh...
12:11He's being talked to right now
12:12Okay
12:13About...
12:14Cause he was...
12:15He lives here, too
12:16So we all just woke up
12:17And we all just kinda...
12:18Neil blew my phone up last night
12:20And so...
12:21I...
12:22I just kinda had a feeling
12:24Um...
12:25What do you mean he blew your phone up?
12:27On Facebook
12:28He told me that, uh...
12:30My mom had some guy over here
12:32And that they were...
12:34I guess...
12:35Having...
12:36Or something like that
12:37Um...
12:38And it was gross
12:39And, you know, so...
12:40What time was that?
12:41Um...
12:42About 1.30
12:43Um...
12:44About 1.30
12:45But I just wanted you guys to know
12:46That there's probably a bunch of people
12:47On their way right now
12:48To...
12:49You know...
12:50My sister's coming
12:51Neil's girlfriend's coming
12:52So, how'd you get alerted to this today?
12:55What exactly happened?
12:56I had a call from my friend
12:58That lives in this neighborhood back here
13:00Mm-hmm
13:01At 5.50 a.m.
13:02I guess she was maybe on her way to work
13:04And she called to see if everything was okay
13:07So there was a bunch of police at my mom's
13:09Yeah...
13:10With caution tape up
13:11Okay, who was that?
13:12Who called?
13:13Her name is Lori
13:14She came...
13:15When was...
13:16When was the last time you talked to Norma?
13:17Honestly, I haven't talked to her
13:20It's been...
13:23Probably...
13:24I don't know
13:26It's been...
13:27It's been several months
13:28When was the last time you talked to Neil?
13:31It was last time before I went to bed
13:33What time was that?
13:34Um...
13:35Probably around 11
13:37Between 1 and 2
13:38I missed a gazillion calls
13:40And then I woke up
13:42Just didn't want to go
13:43And then...
13:44I couldn't get any cool
13:45And that's when I got up
13:47And I just said
13:48We were just gonna be here
13:49I wish it was going on
13:51So you said he texted you?
13:53Yeah
13:54Yeah, I was freaking out
13:55I was just like
13:56I can't get her to respond to what I do
13:57You know
13:58Do you mind showing me those texts?
13:59Mm-hmm
14:00Please?
14:02He said that he can get her to respond
14:07Which is different than what he told our officers
14:11Said he hadn't made contact with her
14:13Yeah
14:14As officers continued speaking with Norma's daughters, Andrea and Jenny, and Neil's girlfriend Dawn, something odd quickly stood out
14:25Despite being informed that her mother had just died, Andrea's demeanor was unusually upbeat
14:33She seemed strangely calm for someone who had just lost a parent in such a violent way
14:38But while officers were still gathering statements, their attention was suddenly drawn away
14:44When a white pickup truck slowly drove by
14:46Hi, is Norma all right?
14:47She's a close friend of mine, is Norma all right?
14:48We'll discuss that in a little bit, okay, sir?
14:49That's Terry Dietz
14:50That's Terry Dietz?
14:51That's Terry Dietz
14:55They have a very turbulent relationship
15:06This was the first time officers made direct contact with Terry Dietz
15:10Don confirmed he was Norma's boyfriend
15:13Quickly adding that their relationship was known to be turbulent
15:18Yet, when Terry drove by the scene, he referred to Norma simply as a close friend
15:24Clearly downplaying their connection
15:27These details quickly placed Terry Dietz as a key person of interest in Norma's murder
15:32And detectives would soon uncover that Terry not only had a complicated relationship with Norma
15:37But also a tempting financial motive
15:41So, to move forward, detectives brought Terry in for questioning later that day
15:46They needed to understand the nature of this relationship with Norma
15:49Confirm his whereabouts on the night she was killed
15:52And most importantly, find out if he had any hidden motives to want her dead
15:59Tell me
16:00Let me get my writing utensils
16:02You gotta help me with some information
16:04Well, that's kind of what we need you for too
16:07We know you know Norma very well
16:09Yes
16:10I know you guys have been dating or in love or something like that
16:14Yeah
16:15Yeah
16:16I never got really close to Norma
16:19So when is the last time you talked to Norma?
16:217.45 p.m. last night
16:25Oh, okay
16:26She asked me to come out to Lucky Rooster in St. Jacob
16:31So 7.45 p.m. at Lucky Rooster?
16:34Yes
16:35You were out there and saw her?
16:36Yes
16:37Was anybody else there?
16:38Just me
16:39Nobody else there or anything of that sort?
16:41No, no, that was the same table
16:43Okay, perfect
16:44No, no, not even at the table
16:45It looked like there was a guy who had the bar
16:47Like she was trying to hit on her or talk to her or anything of that sort
16:50Oh, I couldn't
16:51I didn't have noticed
16:52That's okay
16:53That's what you do what I mean by that fellow
16:54Yeah
16:55Terry told detectives he'd seen Norma earlier that evening at her workplace, the Lucky Rooster
17:02It wasn't much, but it was the first solid lead detectives had about Norma's final hours
17:08However, something about Terry's demeanor caught detectives' attention
17:12Terry seemed strangely calm, almost detached, despite learning that Norma had just died under suspicious circumstances hours ago
17:22This lack of emotion would soon make more sense when detectives asked Terry about Norma's will
17:30Do you know if she had a will or a life insurance policy or anything of that sort that you would have been a beneficiary of?
17:38Yes
17:39I am the beneficiary on New York life
17:43Okay
17:44What is it?
17:46How much?
17:47What?
17:48What is it?
17:49You said it's New York life, is it her life insurance?
17:51It's a life insurance policy
17:54On Norma?
17:55Yes
17:56This question wasn't asked at random
18:00Detectives had already zeroed in on a critical piece of information Terry wasn't aware of
18:05After his suspicious interaction with officers earlier in the morning, detectives took a closer look into his relationship with Norma
18:11They quickly discovered Terry was the sole beneficiary of one of Norma's life insurance policies
18:17And that just hours after learning of her death, he had already contacted the insurance company
18:22Urgently inquiring about collecting the $14,000 payout
18:26And the timing couldn't have been more suspicious
18:29As Terry's call came shortly after he drove past the crime scene and asked officers about Norma's condition
18:36With this revelation, Terry Dietz quickly became one of the prime suspects in Norma's murder
18:42Alongside Neil Howard, Norma's volatile son, and her still unidentified date
18:48Conveniently, once Terry started feeling the pressure, he began pointing fingers elsewhere
18:54I told Norma
18:56I told Norma
18:57I told Norma
18:58So many times that
18:59I told Norma
19:01So many times that
19:02He's finally questioned that
19:03I told her
19:04I told her
19:05He's gonna
19:06I'm gonna kill you
19:07Why did you say that?
19:08He would get irate
19:11I saw him
19:13Get irate
19:15This was several months ago
19:17At Norma
19:18Because
19:19She wouldn't give him
19:21Any money
19:22To go get booze
19:23She said
19:24I'm gonna turn the head
19:25I'm not gonna give you any more fucking money
19:27And blah blah blah
19:28And he was tired
19:30Terry wasted no time deflecting suspicion onto Neil Howard
19:35Characterizing him as an aggressive, violent alcoholic
19:38Detectives saw through Terry's tactic right away
19:41But this next statement would actually force detectives to reconsider Neil as a serious threat
19:47Is there anybody else you think of that we should talk to?
19:50Hey you probably ought to talk to this person
19:52Or hey this person
19:53Somebody we wouldn't know
19:55Or would miss
19:56Or
19:57Hey that would kill Norma?
19:58Well they wouldn't even know anything about Norma
20:00Or they could relate anything to do with Norma
20:02As I sat there this morning I was thinking about
20:06You know going through records and stuff
20:09And
20:10What them kids would blame me
20:13Or accuse me of
20:15Because they know I didn't like them
20:18Because of the way they treated their mother
20:21They were very mean to their mom
20:23Well what do you know about her son?
20:25Well I know she had a lot of problems with him
20:32If I will let me start with what I know
20:39He killed her dad
20:42Supposedly it was self defense
20:45Terry's claim here wasn't just a defensive reaction
20:48It was a troubling fact that would compel detectives to end his interview and shift their attention
20:54On November 21st 2005 in Mesquite Texas
21:01Neal Howard shot and killed his father George Howard
21:05According to Neal the two had been drinking heavily and arguing throughout the day
21:11The fight escalated when George fired a round inside the home
21:15Neal claimed that during the struggle to take the gun away
21:18It went off striking his father through the eye and killing him instantly
21:23Neal was 26 at the time
21:26He called his sister Andrea who urged him to contact the police
21:30When officers arrived they found him inside the house severely intoxicated
21:35Neal insisted it was self defense
21:38He was arrested and charged but the trial ended in a hung jury
21:42Eventually Neal was acquitted and the case was closed
21:46Now suspicion hung heavily over both men
21:51Neal's violent past was undeniably troubling
21:54And without corroborating his account and locating Norma's date
21:57Detectives couldn't clear him
21:59Similarly Terry's quick presence at the crime scene
22:02And his suspiciously swift attempt to claim Norma's life insurance
22:06Meant detectives needed to thoroughly verify his alibi as well
22:09Detectives needed to keep a close eye on both men for the moment
22:13And focus their investigation on identifying the mysterious man Norma spent the evening with
22:19Fortunately Terry had given detectives a crucial lead
22:22When he mentioned that Norma was working at the Lucky Rooster on the evening before her death
22:27So to verify this statement officers visited Norma's workplace to speak with her co-workers
22:32And collect any helpful information
22:34When officers arrived at the Lucky Rooster
22:36They discovered something crucial
22:38Surveillance cameras that had captured footage from that very night
22:41What detectives saw on those recordings would open an entirely new set of questions
22:46On the evening of September 12th, 2023
22:50Surveillance footage captured Norma Carriker leaving the Lucky Rooster with an unidentified man
22:55This footage marked the beginning of Norma's last known movements
23:00Approximately 30 minutes later Norma and the same man were captured by cameras
23:05Arriving at the Time Out Bar and Grill
23:07Footage showed them spending roughly an hour inside
23:10Talking, drinking, and appearing comfortable in each other's company
23:14Before leaving together
23:16It was the last time Norma was seen alive
23:21With a bungee cord used to strangle Norma
23:23Detectives quickly concluded this murder was personal
23:27Possibly a crime of anger or jealousy
23:30They speculated that this mysterious date could have turned violent for some reason
23:34Strangling Norma and fleeing before police arrived
23:37The absence of forced entry further supported Neil's story
23:40Detectives now urgently needed Neil's sober recollection to identify and locate Norma's date
23:46After several hours in custody, Neil Howard was finally sober enough to speak with detectives
23:53They needed his recollection to gain some clarity
23:56Without it, they had no way to identify Norma's date
23:59Or determine Neil's own fate in the investigation
24:01She told me
24:03She told me
24:05She used to expect her body in surgery
24:08And she said she's gonna have company
24:10And I heard my mom's voice
24:12And I sit there in the bed and I'm saying
24:15Listen
24:16I heard them bang off of either the headboard or the dresser
24:23Is that where they were sex at?
24:25Yes
24:26Okay
24:27And then I heard her saying
24:29You ain't gotta leave
24:30You ain't gotta go
24:31And it wasn't because of me making noise
24:33I didn't hear that
24:35And I get up and check to make sure that she put the back doors closed
24:40And that's what you did?
24:41You went upstairs to make sure it was closed?
24:42I went upstairs and I heard the dog whining in her room
24:45And did you go in there?
24:47No, I didn't open her door
24:49Her door was closed?
24:50I went down there and I was like
24:51Wiener, come here
24:52Wiener, come here
24:53And you said the door of her room was closed
24:55And the door was outside of her room?
24:56No
24:57The door was inside
24:58But the door was cracked
24:59And my mom wasn't hollering
25:01Or my mom wasn't answering
25:02My mom's very voice in this person
25:05Alright
25:06And the way it went silent was eerie
25:09What made you decide to call her?
25:11Because my grandma had an issue with my uncle
25:13But they tried to say he said it with the
25:17His ex-fire
25:18Right from the start, detectives noticed Neil's story wasn't adding up
25:25On the 911 call, Neil implied he had already found his mother unresponsive
25:30But now, in the interview room, he insisted he didn't enter her room until officers arrived
25:36Neil would continue giving fragmented accounts throughout the interview struggling to clearly recall important details
25:42But in between his confused recollections, he suddenly brought up another man
25:46Someone he claimed was actively manipulating his mother Norma
25:50She's got a guy
25:51I'm gonna tell you this guy
25:52I've threatened this guy
25:53Terry is his name
25:56And we
25:57And she pays
25:59She don't need to work three jobs
26:01Tom Carriker took care of all that
26:03She has no bills
26:05This guy, every day
26:07He's
26:08She just
26:09Was on his side
26:10To sue my other sister
26:11For 30 G's
26:12This guy runs around town
26:14She's
26:15Poor
26:16This guy
26:17And his name's Terry
26:18Terry
26:19He's
26:20The
26:21Though the details were disjointed, Neil seemed upset with Terry Dietz
26:25The same man already under suspicion of Norma's murder
26:28Accusing him of taking advantage of his mother, draining her money, and turning her against the rest of the family
26:33Neil's anger towards Terry further confirmed Detective's existing suspicions, giving them even more reason to closely scrutinize his involvement
26:44But by now, Neil had been at the station for several hours, and was becoming anxious, demanding to leave
26:51Detectives still didn't inform him of his mother's death, and holding him any longer, without explaining why, was becoming difficult to justify
27:00It was time, to deliver, the tragic news, and brace for Neil's reaction
27:05You know, I gotta give him a shit too very long, this is gonna ruin everything, everybody's thing
27:10I wanna let her down slow, and I don't want to tell him that fault for nothing
27:14You know her mom's deceased, right?
27:15No
27:16Her mom's deceased
27:17I said she was hurt
27:18Her mom's deceased
27:19So that's why we're making this into what we need to have you around available for us, okay?
27:24No, I'd like to see my sister
27:30Oh, right now
27:31Let's get back here with you
27:32Hold on, sit down, okay?
27:33No, no
27:34So you're not leaving
27:35You're not leaving
27:36Is that right?
27:37Yeah
27:38You're not leaving
27:39Oh, is that right?
27:40Your mother's deceased
27:41What is the person we know that saw her last that we can talk to?
27:44I didn't see her last night
27:45You did too
27:46I seen her last night?
27:48You walked in there when the officers asked you to, you were the last one there with her
27:51So you're the only one we have in her
27:53You're the next person that's hard
27:54Correct?
27:55I didn't see her last night until they told me to go in there
27:58Absolutely, we know that
27:59But then you spoke with her at 8th?
28:01I knew it
28:02You spoke with her at 8th?
28:03Call my sister and let me talk to her
28:05After learning of his mother's death, Neil grew increasingly agitated throughout the remainder of the interview
28:12Eventually requesting a lawyer and forcing detectives to end their questioning
28:18With Neil shutting down the interview and refusing to cooperate further, detectives had no choice but to find another way to identify Norma's mysterious date
28:27Hoping for a breakthrough, investigators sent officers to search for additional surveillance footage from locations Norma and her date passed by that night
28:35And they quickly hit the jackpot
28:37One security camera clearly captured the vehicle Norma's date was driving
28:41By running the license plate, detectives identified him as James Carter
28:46Detectives urgently needed to speak with James, the only other known person at Norma's house that night besides Neil
28:52When they first approached him, he was uncooperative and outright denied seeing Norma
28:58It wasn't until officers obtained a warrant for his cell phone data that he and his lawyer agreed to speak
29:04On the condition that James received immunity and would not be sub-peanut for the trial
29:09Once immunity was secured, he cooperated, provided a DNA sample, and shared his account of the evening
29:15James explained that he met Norma on the dating site Plenty of Fish
29:19And arranged to meet at her workplace before heading to the bar for a few drinks
29:23After leaving the bar, Norma invited him back to her house and they spent an intimate hour together at Norma's
29:29However, James insisted Norma was alive and unharmed when he left around 11pm
29:35Cell phone data corroborated his story, placing him back in St. Louis, where he lived
29:40Well before the estimated time of Norma's death
29:44With James Carter officially cleared, the investigation was narrowed to two suspects
29:50Neil Howard and Terry Dietz
29:52Both men had means and opportunity
29:55Both shared complicated, deeply rooted relationships with Norma
29:59But without any physical evidence, detectives couldn't solve this with timelines alone
30:04They needed a clearer understanding of Norma's personal life to pinpoint which of the two suspects was more capable of killing her
30:12To do this, investigators brought Norma's daughters in, Andrea and Jenny
30:17As well as Neil's girlfriend, Dawn
30:19Hoping their insights would single out the likely killer
30:22However, these interviews would instead reveal a hidden detail from Norma's personal life
30:28One that would turn the very people brought in to help into potential suspects themselves
30:34And then just, like I said, my biggest issue is, you know, I love my mom
30:51Me and my mom have always been super close
30:54But this Terry guy came in, and he has just totally broken her down
31:01So, do you think Neil could have ended up with an issue to hurt your mom?
31:07I don't plan to test him
31:09Especially when he's drunk and drugging
31:14And, I mean, yeah
31:18Tell me a little bit about what's been going on with you
31:21She was so in love with that man
31:25It's sickening, you know
31:27And just my mom's relationship with Terry meant more to her, you know, than the relationship with her daughter
31:34And I guess what I'm saying is that Terry, Terry just uses my mom, you know, for her money
31:39And calls her fat
31:41And, you know, she just lost a bunch of weight
31:43That being said, she would look for love on a lot of these dating sites
31:48And so when we were living with her
31:51She would, Andrea, come here
31:53You know, I mean, she was talking to multiple different people
31:55And I even said to her one time
31:57I'm like, you're going to end up dead
31:58Like, you don't even know who you're talking to
32:00I mean, I've been over there several times since then
32:03And this is what I can tell you
32:05My mom and Neil are both alcoholics
32:07My mom doesn't handle hers very well
32:11She becomes very belligerent
32:16And every time she's been belligerent with Neil
32:21He always tucks his head and goes downstairs
32:24I know my brother better than anybody in this world
32:28Like, I am my brother's keeper for real
32:30And he wouldn't have
32:35He wouldn't have hurt her
32:37He wouldn't have
32:39I've been through this before, you know
32:41Andrea and Jenny's interviews further confirmed
32:45That Norma's relationship with Terry and Neil
32:47Was strained, troubled, and complicated
32:50And Andrea's subtle mention that she'd been through this before
32:54Reinforced the detective's concerns about the family's violent past
32:58However, when Neil's girlfriend, Dawn, entered the interview room
33:02She would reveal something detectives never saw coming
33:05A financial motive powerful enough
33:08To make everyone close to Norma a potential suspect
33:13Dawn, I'm sorry
33:17Three other things come up
33:19So, I don't want to go with my car
33:21It's pretty sad
33:22We need to tell you
33:23We need to tell you
33:25Six o'clock this morning
33:27No one knew what happened
33:29And we all just pulled up
33:31Terry shows up
33:32Well, what happened to Norma?
33:34Six o'clock in the morning
33:36We all just showed up on site
33:38Terry should not have known anything
33:40Or what happened
33:41That he shows up in front of the house
33:43Right
33:44So, Norma had a date last night
33:46I don't know who it was
33:48She goes on these weird dating sites
33:50Which I warned her about
33:51You don't know who you're talking to
33:53Right
33:54Norma has a habit of telling people
33:55That she's got all this money
33:57So, that's another thing to look into
33:59Everything in my body tells me
34:01Terry had something to do with it
34:03Norma's extremely depressed all the time
34:05Terry is a big problem
34:07Um, if Terry thought that his income was coming to a close
34:11If she was dating
34:13They were probably making him very angry
34:15She had an escrow
34:17Like millions and millions and millions of dollars
34:20If Terry is beneficiary
34:23And Norma's gone
34:24Terry gets up to five million dollars
34:26So, you're saying this year
34:28Norma would have gotten Tom's estate?
34:29Yes
34:30Like five million dollars
34:32Do we know that for certain?
34:35Yeah
34:36Because I say that because I don't know that
34:37He was worth that much
34:38Yeah
34:39For certain
34:40According to Dawn
34:42Norma was due to receive
34:44A multi-million dollar payout
34:46From the estate of her late husband
34:48Charles Carriker
34:49A former mayor of Troy, Illinois
34:51And a long-time local businessman
34:54This revelation changed everything
34:57Suddenly, anyone close to Norma
34:59Who knew anything about the money
35:01Had a potential motive
35:02Neil Howard
35:03Her financially dependent son
35:05Struggling with alcoholism
35:07Terry Dietz
35:08Her ex-boyfriend
35:09Known for financial manipulation
35:11And even her daughters
35:12Andrea and Jenny
35:14Who stood to inherit a life-changing sum
35:16With the suspect pool rapidly expanding
35:19Detectives began preparing to closely examine
35:21Everyone who might benefit from Norma's death
35:24But before they get to that
35:26They caught a lucky break
35:29Neil Howard
35:30Suddenly requested to speak to detectives
35:32Without a lawyer
35:33He was quickly brought back for a second interview
35:36Where he would finally provide detectives with some clarity
35:39Or so they hoped
35:40My mom, she comes home from one job
35:43She works like three jobs
35:45She's a sugar mama to more than one guy
35:49She
35:50Do you know these guys?
35:52I know one
35:54But somehow she going online
35:58And meeting guys, random
36:01Random guys coming in and out of the house
36:04That's gotta be tough for you as her son
36:06I used to go on
36:09I used to leave
36:10Or I'm in bed
36:11I'm asleep
36:12I didn't even see her yesterday
36:13She goes from one job to the other
36:16And my sister was supposed to come by
36:18And take me to her old house
36:19Which is in Troy
36:21To clean it
36:22To make sure it was clean
36:23Because she was showing it
36:24My sister didn't have showing up
36:26I hear my mom upstairs
36:28She comes in
36:29Changes shirt
36:30Changes
36:31She's usually gone
36:32She usually calls me when she's leaving her other job
36:36To ask me if she wanted anything to eat
36:39She called me later than usual
36:41She called me
36:42You can look at the phone
36:43She called me at 9.30
36:45About quarter after 9
36:47And says
36:48Just a quarter after 9
36:50About that time
36:51She's doing 9.30
36:53And she says
36:55I've got to have company
36:57Which that means
36:58You can't make a noise
36:59You know
37:00Don't make a peep
37:02Don't go upstairs
37:03You're not there
37:04Basically
37:05I said
37:06Alright
37:07So what
37:08I've got to hurry up
37:09She said
37:10Just take all the clothes off the kitchen table
37:11And throw them in the laundry room
37:13So I took all the clothes
37:15And threw them in there
37:17And I pulled the door as close as I could
37:19So nobody will see what was in there
37:21So
37:22I didn't see her drop her car off
37:24But when I went back downstairs
37:26I heard the car door
37:27I can hear it from the basement
37:29In the basement
37:31Can't see nothing
37:32Because the windows are real high
37:34I called my girlfriend one more time
37:36And I said
37:37So no chance of you coming
37:38She broke her foot last week
37:40And so it's hard for her to drive
37:43And I said
37:44No chance of you coming tonight
37:45And she said
37:46Hey I can't
37:47But you got me all day to come along
37:49And I started
37:50Sending her like love songs
37:52And that
37:54And then I called my sister again
37:56I wanted to know why
37:57She didn't show up
37:58And what am I supposed to do
37:59About dressing
38:00I'm giving her away on Saturday
38:03I didn't want to wear a tuxedo
38:04Or am I wearing dress clothes
38:07No answer
38:08No answer
38:09So I bugged her
38:10For a while
38:13According to Neil
38:14At around 10.30pm
38:16He heard the sliding door slam shut
38:18Indicating Norma's date had left
38:20While this matched James Carter's statement
38:22It didn't explain why Neil waited almost three hours
38:25Before calling 911
38:27Claiming he'd found his mother unresponsive
38:29Immediately after someone had just left the house
38:32Those missing hours were critical to solving Norma's murder
38:36And the detective was about to put Neil's timeline
38:39Under intense scrutiny
38:40To extract any major inconsistencies in his alibi
38:45Were you drinking last night?
38:47I was
38:48What did you have to drink?
38:49Like you'll see I got a big
38:52Um
38:53Big jug
38:54It was probably sitting right there by my phone
38:57I drank that on that jug two days
39:00So I want to go back to
39:01I want to understand this a little bit more
39:03Why this particular night did you decide to go check on her?
39:07If that's a normal
39:09I went because I heard the back door
39:11So you hear the
39:13You can hear the sliding back door over the country
39:16So I could hear her talking to the dog
39:20Okay
39:21And she was like
39:22Get in here
39:23And I heard her say to whoever was there
39:26You ain't what?
39:27Hollering out her door
39:29Hollering
39:30You ain't got to leave so fast
39:32So when you cracked the door to let the dog out of your mom's bedroom
39:38Yeah
39:39Could you see your mom?
39:40I thought she was sleeping
39:41So then why did you call the police?
39:43I called my sister and I called my girlfriend first
39:47If your mom sleeps face down in between pillows with a blanket over her
39:52Why?
39:53What made you decide to call the police?
39:58If that's a normal thing
39:59The dog was crying at the door
40:02This was the first major inconsistency in Neil's story
40:06He was now admitting he'd entered his mother's bedroom
40:09And seen her covered with a blanket
40:11Completely contradicting his earlier claim that he didn't go in until instructed by officers
40:17But rather than immediately calling him out on the lie
40:20The detective decided to take a more subtle approach
40:23Carefully empathizing with him
40:24And probing the complicated dynamics between Neil and his mother
40:28The goal was simple
40:29To encourage Neil to reveal
40:31Why he hadn't been fully truthful about that night
40:36You don't have a car
40:37And to me
40:38I guess where I struggled
40:39And I feel bad for you
40:40I do
40:41I think that you got dealt with a shit hand
40:44Cause you poor guy
40:45You've been through hell and back with health issues
40:47And then you have to live in this basement
40:50Oh the sewage
40:51The brush
40:52Yeah
40:53And then on top of that
40:54You're expected to be quiet
40:56Every time your mom brings a new man home
40:59And you have to sit there and listen to her ass
41:01And I tell you right now
41:02I would be
41:03I would be upset
41:04This is a known fact
41:06You can ask my sisters
41:07You know
41:09By telling my mom is dangerous
41:11Your mom's dangerous?
41:12No
41:13These random guys
41:14Well yeah
41:15Yeah but you know what man
41:18Sleeping in a basement
41:20Putting on earplugs
41:21And avoid listening to your mom
41:23And have random guys coming over
41:25And listening to country music grow loud and all
41:28Neil's acknowledgement of the tension between him and his mother
41:32Was exactly what the detective wanted
41:34A grown man
41:35Financially dependent
41:36Stuck at home
41:37While his mother dated other men
41:39Neil
41:40Openly acknowledged this uncomfortable dynamic
41:42Yet remained emotionally detached
41:44Showing none of the rage previously seen during his arrest
41:48As the interview progressed
41:50Neil's responses began to slip
41:53Revealing more contradictions and doubts about his story
41:56But one specific detail stood out to detectives
41:59Neil never once asked how his mother died
42:03Most people facing such news would desperately seek answers
42:07Neil's lack of curiosity felt suspiciously intentional
42:11As if he already knew
42:13With this
42:14Detectives
42:15Wrapped up Neil's final interview with uncertainty
42:18Still surrounding his alibi
42:19And shifted their focus back to Terry Dietz
42:22Their other primary suspect
42:24After thoroughly examining phone records
42:27DNA evidence
42:28And multiple witness statements
42:30Detectives confirmed Terry was at home
42:32Nursing a minor injury the entire night
42:34Never leaving his property after 9pm
42:36Physical evidence from the crime scene further cleared Terry
42:40Additionally
42:41Investigators carefully examined
42:43The possibility of Norma's daughters
42:45Andrea and Jenny
42:46Having a financial motive
42:47Due to their substantial inheritance
42:49However
42:50Their phone records and alibis
42:52During the critical timeframe
42:53Were verified
42:54And detectives found
42:55No additional evidence
42:57Suggesting their involvement
42:58In their mother's death
42:59So
43:00With Terry cleared
43:01And Norma's daughters rolled out
43:03Detectives were left
43:04With just one suspect
43:06Neil
43:07Howard
43:08By now
43:09It was clear
43:10Neil wasn't going to confess
43:11But detectives were confident
43:13That the contradictions
43:14Inconsistencies
43:15And his behavior following Norma's death
43:17Provided enough proof
43:19To secure a conviction
43:20Ultimately
43:21Investigators felt certain
43:23Neil Howard
43:24Was responsible
43:25For his mother's murder
43:27And
43:28They formally charged him
43:29At the trial
43:32Prosecutors argue
43:33That sometime between
43:3510.30pm
43:36And 1.30am
43:37Neil
43:38Heavily intoxicated
43:39And increasingly volatile
43:40Entered Norma's bedroom
43:42An argument
43:43May have broken out
43:44Or perhaps
43:45The tension
43:46Had been simmering all day
43:47At some point
43:48Neil strangled Norma
43:49With a bungee cord
43:50Then covered her up
43:51With a blanket
43:52Instead of immediately
43:53Calling for help
43:54Neil repeatedly tried
43:55Contacting his sister Andrea
43:57Just as he'd done
43:58Years earlier
43:59After killing his father
44:00Phone records revealed
44:01That Neil started calling Andrea
44:03At 12.49am
44:04Making seven attempts
44:06To reach her
44:07The final call
44:08Occurring at 1.30am
44:10Moments before
44:11Dialing 911
44:12The jury reviewed
44:13Neil's shifting accounts
44:14The physical evidence
44:16And his documented history
44:17Of violence
44:18Prosecutors painted
44:19A clear picture
44:20Neil Howard
44:21Was unstable
44:22Violent
44:23And entirely capable
44:24Of murder
44:25On February 10th
44:272025
44:28Neil Howard
44:29Was found guilty
44:30Of first degree murder
44:31His sentencing
44:32Is still pending
44:33But he faces up
44:34To 60 years
44:35Behind bars
44:36Special thanks to
44:38MyHeritage for sponsoring
44:39This video
44:40Dive into your past
44:41Right now
44:42With a completely free
44:4314 day trial
44:44Click the link in the description
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