Bitcoin and Freedom! Stefan Molyneux Interviewed on BTC Sessions

Stefan Molyneux

In this interview, Nathan Fitzsimmons of BTC Sessions speaks with Stefan Molyneux about the clash between anarchy and minarchy in the context of Bitcoin and government power. Molyneux critiques governmental authority based on the non-aggression principle and discusses the potential of decentralized currency to reduce corruption. The conversation emphasizes the significance of peaceful parenting and alternative dispute resolution through free market principles. They also address the looming economic crisis and the connections between Bitcoin, free will, and spirituality, while considering the role of AI in storytelling. Overall, the dialogue challenges conventional views on governance and morality towards a more liberated society.  Visit BTC Sessions' website: https://www.btcsessions.ca/  Follow BTC Sessions on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/c/btcsessions  FOLLOW ME ON X! https://x.com/StefanMolyneux  GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK! https://peacefulparenting.com/  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!  You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!  See you soon! https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2025

Transcript

00:00:00Good morning, Stephen. Thank you so much for joining me today. Very excited for this conversation and glad to see you back on X. I want to have you on because I really want to touch on anarchy versus minarchy. And in particular, you know, in Bitcoin, there is a lot of conversations around like what is the role of the state and particularly what would the role of the state be in a hyper Bitcoinized world?

00:00:15A lot of times I'll hear the idea kind of smaller city states or minarchy, the kind of night watchman type setup. And even some people referencing Hoppe's work will talk about the benefits of monarchy versus democracy. And so I'm curious in your view, I mean, you've been evangelizing Bitcoin, I think, since 2011. In a hyper Bitcoinized world, how do you envision the role of the state? What is government like at that point in time? And can it even exist if it doesn't have control over the currency?

00:00:40So great question. It's good to start me off this morning with the easy stuff. So the question of statism is really around two things for me. Number one is the universalization of the non-aggression principle. The non-aggression principle is you cannot morally initiate the use of force against others. It's kind of something we get and we understand, you know, like when you're in, I worked in a daycare for many years. And whenever there was a fight between the kids, you know, when you say, hey, what's going on?

00:01:09What did the kids say? He started it. No, she, he started it, right? So whoever started it is in the wrong. And we kind of get that instinctively. And there were really good moral reasons as to like philosophical moral reasons as to why the initiation of the use of force is wrong and why self-defense is good.

00:01:25So the initiation of the use of force. Now, statism as a philosophy states, says, probably states should probably be the wrong way of putting it. It says that there's a certain group of people who are so angelic and wonderful that they should be given the almost universal power to initiate the use of force in a geographical area.

00:01:42And they'll be just fine with that. And they won't corrupt them. And they won't be greedy. And power won't go to their heads. So it is the idea that there are human angels and human devils among us.

00:01:53And the human angels need to be given the awesome power of the state. And the human devils are restrained by the angels with the power of the state.

00:02:02Of course, logically, when you break it down, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, right? So if everyone is good, we don't need the state. If the majority of people are bad, then democracy will make sure that bad things, bad people end up running the state because they want their own team to win.

00:02:19And if everyone is evil, then it's just a state of nature and there's no conversation to be had about morality. And that's obviously not true.

00:02:27And if the majority of people are good and a minority of people are evil, which is my particular viewpoint, then the minority of people will take control of the state and use it to impose evil things on the good majority.

00:02:41So there's no situation in which it works. So if you take a central principle, and this has been true in physics for the last 500 years and biology since Darwin, if you'd sort of take a central principle, so E equals mc squared, or the speed of light is constant or something like that, and you just say, okay, that's absolutely true everywhere across time, across the universe, no matter who.

00:03:04So, I mean, mind-bending, but accurate things happen to your mind. Like you understand the nature of matter and energy, you can do nuclear power and unfortunately some nuclear weaponry.

00:03:16So when you take central principles and universalize them, like in the past, of course, before people like Tycho Brahe and Copernicus and so on, people generally thought that the earth was the center of the universe, not just of the solar system, but of the universe.

00:03:32And if you just say, okay, so rocks fall to earth, what if everything falls? What if everything is falling, right? What if the moon is falling around the sun and is only kept, sorry, the moon is falling around the earth and is only kept from falling into the earth by centrifugal forces?

00:03:49What if the earth is falling around the sun? What if the sun is falling around the center of the galaxy? What if you just take this principle that everything falls, that gravity is a universal constant, and just apply it?

00:04:00Then you end up with a radically different but accurate view of the universe, and suddenly you can send probes past Jupiter and do incredible stuff.

00:04:09So when you take a central principle and you just universalize it, you get amazing things out of physics and out of biology and out of morality.

00:04:18So if you just take the non-aggression principle and the other side of the coin, which is respect for persons and property rights, you end up with a wild and remarkable system and way of understanding the world.

00:04:30So if you say, well, we're just going to say the ethics that we teach to kindergartners, we're going to just take as absolute and universal.

00:04:38Thou shalt not initiate the use of force and thou shalt respect property and in that way respect contract rights, which is just a form of deferred property rights.

00:04:47So we're just going to say what is right for a five-year-old is right for everyone.

00:04:51No one gets to initiate the use of force.

00:04:52And then also if we understand that all power corrupts, then there aren't these angels who are immune from power.

00:05:00You know, you often hear people say, it's like, well, the government should do this.

00:05:04And it's like, that's a lovely magic wand.

00:05:06And what you're doing is as someone who is not corrupted by that level of power, you're thinking, well, I would be fine with that.

00:05:15People I know would be fine with that.

00:05:17They try and do the right thing.

00:05:18You know, if government took over health care, they just try to make everyone healthier.

00:05:21If government took over charity through the welfare state, they just try and help the poor so, so much.

00:05:26And pensions, you know, would never be used to buy votes.

00:05:30That would be wrong.

00:05:31And they'd always save up.

00:05:32They tax everyone since the 1930s.

00:05:34They've been taxing everyone for retirement benefits in the US.

00:05:37There's nothing there.

00:05:38Nothing.

00:05:39Nothing.

00:05:39Just a bunch of dusty treasury IOUs and a couple of crossed fingers from dead economists.

00:05:45So the idea that, well, I've got this great idea.

00:05:49I mean, I see if the government did X, Y, and Z.

00:05:50That it's more magical thinking than praying to Zeus.

00:05:54It really is.

00:05:54Because you're looking at a system of power and saying, well, I wanted to do this good thing.

00:06:00Right?

00:06:01And then next thing you know, Jeffrey Epstein has video of you and you can't do that good thing anymore.

00:06:05Right?

00:06:05So once you get into the realm of power, you get corrupted.

00:06:10And people thinking they have this magic wand to just make this very powerful and, you know, quite coercive agency just follow the wing trails of the angels as they flap across the dusty lakes of virtue is really a fantasy.

00:06:24And society has progressed to the degree with which we have replaced coercion with voluntarism.

00:06:30And that's where we should still be going.

00:06:31And Bitcoin, of course, is central to that.

00:06:34Beautiful.

00:06:34Can you expand on that?

00:06:35And so in terms of, I guess the question would be, is it sufficient that if we fix the incentives by changing the currency that we would eventually get to that sort of state?

00:06:43Or is that alone not enough to actually make the transition?

00:06:46Is it sufficient to basically remove currency from the government?

00:06:49Does that result then in the downfall?

00:06:51Or is there more that needs to be done as well?

00:06:54Well, here's where I would advise everyone to put on their crash helmets and assume the position of whiplash.

00:07:01Because here's where the conversation is going to go a little bit sideways to some of your listeners.

00:07:05But give me just a minute or two to make the case.

00:07:08And hopefully it will make sense.

00:07:09So, yeah, without a doubt, the power to create currency corrupts everyone who touches it.

00:07:14It's like the ultimate ring, a Soren's ring, is the power to create currency.

00:07:18I'm sure everybody knows this, so I'll just touch on it briefly.

00:07:21If you can counterfeit, if you can create money through central banking, then you hand it out to all of your friends who get to spend it at full value.

00:07:28And then it gets diluted as it moves through the economy.

00:07:30And those at the very tail end of the economy, those furthest from the centers of power, end up with double-digit inflation, which is what I think is hitting the U.S. at the moment somewhere between 10% and 11%.

00:07:41And in some urban centers, 30%, 25%, 30%.

00:07:46So that level of power can't be handled by anyone.

00:07:51So when you take the human element out of the creation of currency and you put it into a mechanical situation where you have to trade electrical impulses for Bitcoin, as of course is in the case of Bitcoin, that's fantastic.

00:08:04When you take the transfer of value out of human hands, which is what Bitcoin does with the decentralized network, then you just take giant levers of power that corrupt everyone who touch it out of circulation.

00:08:20And that's to the relief of everyone in the long run.

00:08:22And even the evil guys don't end up benefiting from it because the more evil you do, the less you can actually be loved and be happy.

00:08:28So we're sort of taking, it's like taking away a gun from a toddler.

00:08:31It's like, they're not going to do any good with it.

00:08:33And you really got to work with that.

00:08:35So certainly taking the power to create currency out of the government's hands and the power to control interest rates and all of that sort of stuff is great.

00:08:42The other thing that we need to do, of course, is, and this was a big puzzle for me for like, I've been doing this for over 40 years.

00:08:49It was a big puzzle to me.

00:08:50Like, why is it that people think that coercion is necessary for the organization of society?

00:08:56And after a certain amount of really hard and thinking and trying lots of different approaches, I sort of finally kicked over the reason and the reason in general is that as children, we are taught that violence is essential to the maintenance of order within the family and in school.

00:09:15And so all of our early childhood experiences, and there are some exceptions, of course, but for the most part, you know, most parents hit their kids.

00:09:22Most parents yell at their kids.

00:09:23Most parents jam their kids, you know, coercively down on the stairs for timeouts.

00:09:28Most parents send their kids to bed without dinner.

00:09:32Most parents neglect, right?

00:09:34They will emotionally cut their kids off if the kids do something they won't.

00:09:39They'll just storm around, not talk to their kids, slam doors.

00:09:41And that's really scary for kids.

00:09:43You know, I mean, I can neglect some guy across the world and I'm not doing him any harm, but if I lock a guy in my basement and neglect him, well, it's suddenly a very different matter, right?

00:09:53Then so kids want to please their parents and kids want to do what they need, their parents' resources and affection.

00:10:02You know, we evolved where there were a lot of predators and a lot of scarcity of food.

00:10:07And so you didn't want to be the least favorite kid among your parents.

00:10:10You tend to want to align with that.

00:10:11And so when I was a kid, it's less now, although still there in the U.S.

00:10:17When I was a kid, I was in boarding school.

00:10:18And if you did the wrong thing, you got caned.

00:10:21And so when we grow up with this level of coercion, it's pretty rough.

00:10:25And of course, the entire school system is funded through property taxes and other aggressive measures.

00:10:31And so as children, it's like really almost directly beaten into us that coercion is necessary for social order, that that the kids who aren't coerced against are bratty and resistant and angry and won't respect any rules and chaotic and criminal.

00:10:51And so it's in the same way that if you grow up speaking English, say, then that's just the language and you speak English and you don't understand other languages.

00:11:01And if children are raised.

00:11:03Speaking or having the language coercion inflicted upon them, they have to say, and it kind of gets ground into your bone marrow, that you need coercive force to run any group of people.

00:11:17And it's in the household.

00:11:18It's in the schools.

00:11:20And then when you grow up, when people say, well, we need a centralized, coercive institution to run society, people are like, well, yeah, I mean, in the same way that you speak to me in English, I can't fail to understand it.

00:11:30You speak to me in Japanese.

00:11:32I don't know what you're doing, but I do start looking around for Godzilla monsters.

00:11:35So there is that balance as well, which is why I wrote the book Peaceful Parenting, which is free.

00:11:39And I hate to pitch on your show, but peacefulparenting.com.

00:11:42It's a free book, audio book.

00:11:44There's a long version.

00:11:45There's a short version.

00:11:46There is e-books, and there's also an AI that you can use to ask questions about parenting, which is trained not just on that book, but on a whole bunch of things that I've done in the realm of parenting.

00:11:57And I myself have been a stay-at-home dad.

00:11:59My daughter is going to be, shockingly, 17 this year.

00:12:03And I've been a stay-at-home dad with her doing, of course, this show from the beginning.

00:12:08So I can tell you it really works.

00:12:10And so we've got to really work on parenting.

00:12:11I think a combo of parenting, philosophical education, and decentralized currency, you can't guarantee things because of that old free will variable, but I think it's our best shot.

00:12:23It's very interesting.

00:12:24I'm glad that you brought that up, too, because I do see it's funny.

00:12:25In my past, we'll say fiat life and those kind of other friends and from beforehand, not a lot of optimism, a lot of, what's the word I'm looking for, natalism.

00:12:35They're not getting married.

00:12:36They're not having kids.

00:12:37They're not very interested.

00:12:38Oh, like an anti-natalism thing?

00:12:39Yeah, yeah.

00:12:39Yeah, but on the Bitcoin side, I'm glad you brought that up.

00:12:42I see a ton of babies being born, family formation, the same sort of thing.

00:12:45It's almost like being able to take care of the currency, they're able to then focus more on what's more meaningful and what's more important.

00:12:52And I see a lot more going on there, too.

00:12:53So for anyone that's not familiar with the idea of peaceful parenting, my understanding is it's basically an extraption.

00:12:58It's just taking, again, the non-aggression principle, applied to parenting, and brought to its logical conclusions.

00:13:03But could you give us a quick overview on maybe sort of like the main tenets?

00:13:06And then the other question I want to tag onto the back of it is, how do we spread the ideas of something like peaceful parenting and even Bitcoin as well, too?

00:13:14Because people are so tied up in their day-to-day lives that if it only comes from educational pressures, I feel like it's a very slow-moving train to get the job done.

00:13:25Does that kind of make sense?

00:13:27Tell me a bit more what you mean.

00:13:28Meaning that in a sense that if we want people to, if we think that peaceful parenting, along with decentralized currency, is an important component of moving to a better place in a freer society, how do we accelerate those ideas?

00:13:40I find it very hard to convince people, even through logic and reason these days.

00:13:45Well, that is a challenge.

00:13:47That's the big challenge.

00:13:49And how do you convince people to take a better path?

00:13:53Well, I think the first thing to do is to understand just how costly it is to improve your morals in the world.

00:14:00Oh, my gosh.

00:14:02It's really rough.

00:14:04It's really rough.

00:14:06And the reason for that, of course, is that most people's relationships are based on conformity rather than virtue.

00:14:14And if you start thinking for yourself, you start questioning things, you start trying to live a life of virtue, honesty, integrity.

00:14:22It's not long before people are like, ooh, I don't like that very much.

00:14:27You're making me uneasy.

00:14:29My false self is troubled by your bluntness and directness.

00:14:32And there's this anxiety.

00:14:33And, of course, the whole purpose of propaganda in our society is to make people, it's almost like physically allergic to the truth.

00:14:40I'm sure you've seen that woman with the tight bun, you know, triggered.

00:14:44You know, she's really upset.

00:14:45People, it's almost like you're waving a bag of bees about someone who's allergic to bees.

00:14:50They're terrified.

00:14:51And so if you start speaking the truth and you start talking about inconvenient things, the question is, are you loved for you as an individual who thinks, who reasons, who questions, who is yourself through the action of original thought?

00:15:07Are you loved for who you are or are you loved for the comfort and familiarity that you bring to people?

00:15:15And the comfort and familiarity that you bring to the propagandized is always at the expense of your true self, your authentic self, your honest, curious individual self.

00:15:25And so people get trapped in this horrible paradox, which is I get comfort and connection with people by not being who I am.

00:15:35But I really, really want to be loved.

00:15:38And it's like, hmm, I'm afraid you're going to have to choose a lane there because they kind of both go in opposite directions.

00:15:43The more you conform to the unthinking, the less you can be loved.

00:15:46And nobody really falls in love with a photocopy or a picture of someone.

00:15:50You fall in love with the original.

00:15:52And so the degree to which you are willing to be yourself, to think and reason for yourself is the degree to which you can be loved.

00:15:59But, of course, that's the everything in life is a tradeoff.

00:16:02And the degree to which you are loved or can be loved through thinking for yourself and being honest with people is also the degree to which you're going to be kind of hated.

00:16:13Because when you are authentic and you speak the truth, you reveal to people that they're really not very good.

00:16:20They're just conformists.

00:16:21They don't really think for themselves.

00:16:22They don't even know what virtue is.

00:16:23They just go along with the herd and the crowd and they have no more individuality than a couple of, you know, back of the 19th century watercolor painting thumbnails of people watching a horse race.

00:16:35And people don't want to find out that they're NPCs.

00:16:38They don't want to find out that they don't think for themselves because that takes away their special snowflake status of individuality that everyone clings to because they think that's going to give them the passage to being loved.

00:16:48But the passage to being loved is forged through thinking for yourself and asking the difficult questions and trying to understand the world as best you can.

00:16:54And that's really tough.

00:16:57So how do we communicate that?

00:16:59I mean, it's always a big challenge.

00:17:03The only thing that I can say is be robust in your presentation of reason and evidence.

00:17:09Be willing to be corrected.

00:17:11And as best you can, and some of these variables, of course, are not under our control.

00:17:15I happen to have met a wonderful woman.

00:17:17I've been married for 23 years and it's better and better every year.

00:17:22And, but I could only control the state of mind that I was in when I met her.

00:17:27I cannot control directly whether I meet her or not.

00:17:31But what you do want to do is if you're in a world of fat people and you want to try and convince them to lose some weight.

00:17:38Well, the first thing you have to do, of course, is lose weight yourself.

00:17:40And then you have to not hide the benefits of weight loss.

00:17:44Like, hey, I can run up the stairs.

00:17:46Hey, I can do jumping jacks.

00:17:48Hey, I can walk without leaning over adult Disney style and, you know, getting chaff marks on my inner thighs and gasping out, you know, clots of bloody matter from my lungs.

00:18:00So, you want to show people, look, here's the benefits.

00:18:04We know the cost.

00:18:04The cost of thinking for yourself is to be loved.

00:18:06Well, the cost is to be loved.

00:18:08The benefit, the cost is to be hated.

00:18:10The benefit is to be loved.

00:18:11And show people what is positive about thinking for yourself so that some people, like, you don't need everyone, man.

00:18:22You know this from Bitcoin.

00:18:24You need, like, maybe 3% to 4% of people who are really committed to change because most people would just go along.

00:18:32We know this from the Milgram experiments.

00:18:33Most people would just go along.

00:18:35They just, they don't, they're like water skiers, you know.

00:18:37They can go a little bit, but basically they're going to follow the boat no matter what.

00:18:41So, you only need a couple of people.

00:18:42So, if you show people, look, this is a good life to think for yourself.

00:18:46And also get people not to be afraid of battle, but to love it.

00:18:51To love battle.

00:18:52To fight for virtue.

00:18:53To thwart evil is the most foundational positive meaning to life.

00:19:01And so, don't be afraid of battle.

00:19:02Yeah, people are going to like you.

00:19:04They're going to love you.

00:19:04They're going to hate you.

00:19:05You shouldn't let either affect you too much, except for those you're really close to.

00:19:10But, go out there.

00:19:12And, you know, it's funny because we all love these superhero movies.

00:19:14We all love like battling the robots and battling the aliens and battling Agent Smith.

00:19:18And we love Kung Fu movies.

00:19:21And then when it comes to just disagreeing with people in your life, you're like, oh, we get all this fainting couch.

00:19:25And, oh, I'm going to need my smelling salts.

00:19:27I have to lie down.

00:19:28It's like, come on, be a hero.

00:19:30Be a superhero.

00:19:31Speak for the truth.

00:19:32Yeah, you'll get into a little trouble.

00:19:33Yeah, people will get mad at you and all of that.

00:19:36But you go, stop watching all of these fantasy heroes.

00:19:40Oh, Aragorn, so brave, you know, for Frodo.

00:19:43And it's like, can you do the same for the truth?

00:19:45No.

00:19:46I'm going to join the Orc army and step on the faces of hobbits.

00:19:49And it's like, stop watching noble, verbal.

00:19:53Well, I mean, of course, I want to keep it verbal and peaceful, but stop watching noble combat and thinking you can never participate in it.

00:19:59You know, embrace it.

00:19:59There's a reason why we love those guys on the screen.

00:20:02And you can look in the mirror and love that, too.

00:20:05That's beautiful.

00:20:05I drew an immediate connection to the idea of toxic Bitcoin maximalists, the guys on Twitter that are going hard.

00:20:10But it's the same thing.

00:20:11It's a, what do you call it, like a virulent adherence to the truth regarding Bitcoin and just no fear to get out on Twitter and just debate with anyone and everyone.

00:20:20You'll see, you know, these well-respected kind of New York Times economists getting taken down in the comments by anon accounts with, you know, laser eyes coming right at them.

00:20:29I want to jump back for one second, because even with people that are deep into kind of these ideas, they've gone down maybe the Rothbard and the Mises rabbit hole.

00:20:35But they're still really struggling to see it actually get to completion, like the full anarchist state.

00:20:40They're kind of like, well, it would be nice, but it's only possible in theory.

00:20:43You've done a lot of work historically with Everyday Anarchy and, what was it, Everyday Anarchy?

00:20:48No, Practical Anarchy, yeah.

00:20:49Practical Anarchy, thank you.

00:20:51Just to give people a bit of something to grab onto, because I think a lot of times it's just a lack of imagination.

00:20:56And again, being kind of growing up in a coercive system, you can't really see anything outside of it.

00:21:00The big ones that come up would be military, police, and conflict resolution, dispute resolution.

00:21:07Can you give us even a rough idea?

00:21:08We're in that hyper-Bitcoinized world.

00:21:10There's no state maybe at this point.

00:21:12Peaceful Parenting has done its thing.

00:21:13How are those things going to be organized?

00:21:15Could you possibly do them voluntarily, Steph?

00:21:17Well, the first thing that I would say is anybody who thinks that the state is necessary to resolve disputes has never tried to resolve disputes using the state apparatus.

00:21:26Because if you've ever touched the legal system or you've ever touched dispute resolution using the state, it's crazy.

00:21:36Why was it, Candace Owens currently, I think, is being sued by Emmanuel Macron and his wife for their claims.

00:21:41And to me, it's just, I mean, obviously, I'm not a lawyer, but to me, it's like, well, I mean, just get a DNA test and see, right?

00:21:51It's easy to solve.

00:21:52But she's talking about this thing's going to cost $5 million to defend against these defamation claims, right?

00:22:00I mean, that is not a practical system for people to resolve disputes.

00:22:05So, I would say, don't start from the premise, well, we have something that works, and you want to replace it with something that's untried.

00:22:14And it's like, that's not really the thing.

00:22:17So, does it work at the moment?

00:22:19Well, let's look at, does dispute resolution work?

00:22:22Well, no, it's unaffordable for most people.

00:22:25And you've got lawyers charging $500,000, $1,500 an hour.

00:22:29Or you've got Byzantine law books.

00:22:31I've got a scene on this in my novel, The Future, where a lawyer from The Future says that he left to stay to society, went to a free society, because he's looking at these walls of law books and saying, how can we expect the ignorance of the law is no excuse?

00:22:45It's like, sure, if it's the common law and you've got three rules, respect property, don't initiate force, keep your word.

00:22:52Okay, I can understand that.

00:22:53A kid can understand that.

00:22:55But when you've got, like, here's your 400 books of legal rules, some of which contradict each other, you cannot possibly expect people.

00:23:02Nobody knows, right?

00:23:03This is a Tom Lorenzo book, like, everybody commits three felonies a day.

00:23:07They don't even know it.

00:23:08And that's just the laws.

00:23:09You've also got the tax rules.

00:23:11You've got the federal register.

00:23:12Like, it's impossible.

00:23:13So, we don't have a system that works for dispute resolution at the moment.

00:23:18So, let's not pretend that, well, you know, there's this other boat we should go to.

00:23:23It's like, but this is a lovely boat.

00:23:24It's like, yes, but it's the Titanic.

00:23:26So, you might want to think about some other place, because this one is not working.

00:23:31So, with dispute resolution, one of the, so the way that you work it, let's say you and I enter into a contract, right?

00:23:38You're going to pay me $1,000.

00:23:41I'm going to ship you a widget, right?

00:23:42So, in a state of society, how do we deal with that if you don't do it?

00:23:47Well, it's pretty tough to use the court.

00:23:48I mean, especially if you're over small claims, it's pretty tough to use the court system.

00:23:53So, what's happened is things have evolved, like, on various sites where you get a reputation, right?

00:23:59Like, you get a reputation rating.

00:24:00Reputation ratings are really important, because then you get rewarded for keeping your word and shipping the widgets if somebody pays you the $1,000.

00:24:08So, that's certainly very helpful.

00:24:09So, the way that it works is that you and I would have, I call them DROs, dispute resolution organizations, and what they do is they insure our contract.

00:24:20So, we pay one percentage point, right?

00:24:23So, $10 on a thou.

00:24:24Now, we pay one percentage point to this organization, and they guarantee the contract, which means if I ship you the widget, but you don't ship me the $1,000, they go to you and say, hey, man, you've got to pay the $1,000.

00:24:36And they even have access to get the money from you if you don't agree, right?

00:24:42Because you would have signed that right away.

00:24:43Now, of course, you could decide to save the $10 on a thou, and then you're going to be uninsured, but that's obviously a choice.

00:24:49Like, people choose not to get life insurance, get hit by a bus, and then their whole family cries, but that's just, you know, part of the risk and reward of living.

00:24:55So, we have an agency that resolves our disputes.

00:25:01Now, that agency wants as few as a set of disputes as possible, right?

00:25:06So, they're going to try and make sure that we have good reputations, that we trust each other, that we have the resources to do what we need.

00:25:14And so, they'll try and reduce the amount of conflict as much as possible.

00:25:17Now, if for whatever reason you owe me $1,000, I shipped you the widget, you owe me $1,000, then the DRO will pay me the $1,000.

00:25:24And then it will say, you don't keep your word.

00:25:27And then when you say, I want to do another contract, what's the DRO going to say?

00:25:32Ah, no.

00:25:33We're not going to insure that.

00:25:34Like, no.

00:25:35Because you screwed the last guy, so we're not going to insure you for the next guy.

00:25:39Unless, you know, whatever hoops you have to jump through to do that.

00:25:43Sort of like a, I mean, they have credit scores and all of that, but it would be like a contract rating a score, and this works.

00:25:49And by the way, you know, this also works beautifully with Bitcoin.

00:25:51The people who are like, well, you can't buy a cup of coffee with Bitcoin.

00:25:54It's like, well, technically you can if you're willing to wait around a bit, but the B2B economy, the business-to-business economy, which I worked in for many years as an entrepreneur, they don't care if it takes 10 minutes to settle something.

00:26:05Most of these contracts are 30, 60, 90-day payments.

00:26:08So that's not a, so even if only Bitcoin takes over only the B2B system, that's a massive economic win as a whole.

00:26:17And, you know, Lightning Network or other things could deal with smaller ones.

00:26:20So, yeah, you have ways of resolving disputes where you have efficiency processes, you get rewarded for being good.

00:26:26And then the question is, of course, well, and with regards to policing, well, what if somebody does something violent?

00:26:32What if somebody, you know, rape, theft, assault, murder, that kind of stuff?

00:26:36Well, first of all, of course, right now, the government has no incentive to prevent people from growing into criminals.

00:26:41Criminals aren't born, I mean, maybe a few exceptions, you know, some weird mutation in the brain, but for the most part, and this is very clearly demonstrated in a wide variety of studies, crime is provoked through child abuse.

00:26:54Right now, what incentive does the state have to prevent people from growing up to be criminals?

00:27:01Well, none, because they're in a two to four year election cycle and they're gone by the time the people grow up.

00:27:07So, it's pretty easy to do, though, you simply would, when you have kids, you know, at the age of two and ten or whatever, you just give them a brain scan, non-invasive, and if they're being neglected or abused, that would show up very clearly in brain scans.

00:27:27Really?

00:27:28Yeah, so you simply, yeah, because you can see the normal healthy brain development, and you can see where the brain development is going awry from neglect and abuse, and neglect in many ways is even worse than abuse.

00:27:40So, you would simply do a scan, and if the parents are neglecting or abusing their child, they'll show up on the scan, and then you say, you gotta fix this, you gotta fix this, or we gotta take the kid away.

00:27:51Okay, and so, peaceful parenting means that there'll be almost no crime.

00:27:56It's sort of like, how much do we worry about smallpox these days?

00:27:59Well, it's kind of been dealt with, so we don't, like, but in the middle of a smallpox epidemic, you're like, we're gonna have, we're gonna worry about smallpox forever and ever.

00:28:07It's like, well, when you have peaceful parenting, you'll have virtually no crime.

00:28:10Again, there may be some people with brain tumors or something like that, but you'll have virtually no crime.

00:28:13And the crime that is dealt with, let's say that a guy named Bob just goes and, for whatever reason, beats the hell out of his neighbor, and somehow he escaped all of this filtering for child abuse, and he just went kind of crazy for, you know, whatever reason.

00:28:29So, solar radiation, demonic possession, whatever's going on.

00:28:32Well, then the DROs come and say to Bob, you need to pay restitution, and you need to be out of society for a while.

00:28:41Now, let's say that Bob doesn't want to do that.

00:28:45Well, first of all, they'd have the right to initiate force against him because he would have signed a contract in order to participate economically in a society.

00:28:52He would sign a contract that says, if I'm found to be initiating the use of force or violating property rights or contract, I can receive sanctions, right?

00:29:01In the same way that, you know, we know when we sign a contract with a cell phone company or a car company or a credit card company that they can apply sanctions against us, right?

00:29:12If they can repossess the car, they can take us to court, they can do also be set of sanctions.

00:29:16Now, let's say that Bob resists all of these sanctions and so on.

00:29:18Well, if you think about the number of contracts, both real and implicit, that you kind of have to go through in order to economically participate in society, it's hundreds a day, at least.

00:29:31And like you go into a restaurant, you don't sign a contract saying, I'm going to pay.

00:29:35There's just an implicit contract that you're going to pay.

00:29:38You don't sign a contract in the library saying, I'm not going to yodel or set fire to the library, but it's just kind of implicit.

00:29:45So, a lot of implicit contracts.

00:29:47So, the way that you deal with truly recalcitrant people, people who simply won't obey social rules, is you work with them as much as possible and try and get them to obey social rules, but then you simply cut off their economic access to society.

00:29:58And what does that mean?

00:29:59No electricity, no water, and you can't use anyone's roads because the roads are all private.

00:30:07You can't use the sidewalk.

00:30:09You can't use the cell phones because that requires everyone else's network.

00:30:13You can't use a computer that's connected to anything useful.

00:30:15Because that requires other people's property.

00:30:18So, what you do is you simply cut people off from economic access to society until they come around.

00:30:25So, there's lots and lots of options.

00:30:26But the point is that you have people who want to prevent problems rather than profit from curing problems.

00:30:32It's like healthcare, right?

00:30:33You want insurance companies that are going to make money when you're healthy.

00:30:36Like there was an old practice in China before the communist revolution that you paid your doctor every month until you got sick.

00:30:43And then you didn't pay him, but he had to treat you.

00:30:47And so, he had every incentive to keep you as healthy as possible.

00:30:50And that's just not the way that certainly socialized medicine works at all.

00:30:55So, with regards to contracts, you've got your DROs.

00:30:58With regards to the police, you've got DROs.

00:31:00And you've got economic ostracism and the initiation of the use of force.

00:31:05You can always do third-party self-defense, right?

00:31:08And with regards to the military, well, how well is the military in America, say, how well is all the taxes pay in America?

00:31:15How well is that securing the borders?

00:31:18And the answer is, well, certainly under Biden, maybe a little bit better under Trump.

00:31:22And under Biden, it was pretty bad.

00:31:23And under Obama, it wasn't great either.

00:31:26In Europe, it's not particularly great at all.

00:31:29So, first of all, again, you don't want to say, well, we have a system that works.

00:31:32Why do you want to try a system that doesn't work?

00:31:34It's like, no, this system doesn't work.

00:31:36I mean, helping the poor.

00:31:38There are more poor now than before the welfare state started.

00:31:41And they're poorer because in America and in most of the West, you've got these unfunded liabilities.

00:31:46And you've got these catastrophic debts and deficits.

00:31:49So, when that money runs out and you've got three generations of people who've never had a job, it's going to be a complete catastrophe.

00:31:55One of the most unbelievably cruel things that's going on in the world right now.

00:31:58So, with regards to the military, well, you have a traditional sense of military, which was throwing massive amounts of soldiers against each other.

00:32:09That's sort of the most part.

00:32:11But wars are not started by the soldiers.

00:32:13Wars are started by the leaders.

00:32:15And so, I would imagine, I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that what would happen is you'd simply target the leaders of the other country if they were threatening you.

00:32:24And target them and whoever supports them in concentric circles relative to the center of power.

00:32:31And the other thing, too, is if you have to invade a particular area, let's just say, whatever, right?

00:32:36And one of it is just a wild jungle with no organization, maybe a couple of indigenous people with blow darts and poison frog tips and stuff like that.

00:32:47That's going to be pretty chaotic and tough to invade.

00:32:49On the other hand, if it's a fully functioning farm with livestock and feed and planted crops, well, taking that over is really profitable because it's really organized.

00:32:59You have a central organization which you can use to replace the farmer with yourself and you've taken over the whole farm.

00:33:05So, taking over a country is, in fact, taking over the state.

00:33:09It's taking over the existing tax system.

00:33:12If there is no existing tax system, if there is no existing state, then you're going into a state of nature.

00:33:17With all these DROs, which have incredible free market incentives to prevent or resist that, let's say that you do somehow manage to displace all of those.

00:33:25You've got an incredibly well-armed population that doesn't want you there at all.

00:33:29And you have no tax system to take over.

00:33:32You know, when the Nazis took over France in May of 1940, they took over the tax system.

00:33:37So, people continued to pay taxes and then they were taking over the tax system, the existing functional farm, not a wild jungle of people with incredible intelligence and resistance.

00:33:48And, of course, you can see, the last thing I mentioned, you can see what's happened when you have giant statist armies trying to deal with insurgents.

00:33:58It's not easy in the same way that when the Nazis were in France, they had to deal with the French resistance, which was very cunning.

00:34:05I mean, the French resistance was like, well, we're not going to kill the soldier.

00:34:08We're just going to really, really wound him because that is going to be more expensive for the government to maintain.

00:34:13And so, you know, dealing with guys with shoulder-fired missiles in the back of pickup trucks and flip-flops is pretty tough.

00:34:20And so, the argument would be that you'll get actually effective geographical, I can't really say national if it's a free society,

00:34:28but you'll get really effective geographical defense and preemptive stuff.

00:34:32If anything's coming up, you would simply try and, you know, take care.

00:34:35And the same way, you don't have to wait for someone to stab you in order to exercise self-defense.

00:34:39If there's storm clouds on the horizon, you can take proactive action to take out the leaders who are threatening you.

00:34:44And, of course, because there's no – one of the reasons that leaders don't do this is they don't want to get into this escalating war of who's going to kill who.

00:34:51But, of course, with a free society, there's no central leader to take out.

00:34:54So, it's a much better – I would feel much more comfortable with that.

00:34:59I mean, and the last thing I'd say is if you look at what the free market has done with regards to just keeping you safe from crime,

00:35:06it was not the government that invented security cameras.

00:35:09It was not the government that invented all of these things that you can put in your house.

00:35:13Somebody opens a window with that and they call the cops immediately.

00:35:16This didn't come from the government.

00:35:17This didn't come from the police force.

00:35:19The car alarms did not come from the government.

00:35:24The thumbprint on your phone, which makes it less valuable to steal, that didn't come from the government.

00:35:29It is the free market that has introduced security and protection from crime, not the government.

00:35:35And if you allow that process to continue, we could live – you know, we could live like I lived as a kid, man.

00:35:41It was wild.

00:35:41Like, I grew up in London before all of the stuff that's been going on since.

00:35:46At the age of three, four, five, six years old, I got on the bus with friends.

00:35:51I wandered all over the town.

00:35:52I'd go swimming.

00:35:53I'd go to the Imperial War Museum.

00:35:54I'd go to the Natural History Museum and look at the giant blue whale that they had in there at the time.

00:36:00Perfectly safe.

00:36:01Never any violence.

00:36:02Never any problems.

00:36:04And, boy, that was a pretty sweet life.

00:36:06And I don't see any reason why we can't aim for that in the future.

00:36:10Beautiful.

00:36:10In terms of – I want to touch on the idea of the coming catastrophe, particularly with, like, the unfunded liabilities

00:36:15and the way that things have been kind of accelerating over the last couple of years.

00:36:17I'm curious, if you think – if I remember back, the show started somewhere around 2007.

00:36:21I think that's when Freedom Main launched, somewhere around there.

00:36:232005 was my first article production.

00:36:25But I sort of got into the podcasting and went full-time at 2007, yeah.

00:36:28Okay, beautiful.

00:36:29With that, since that time, in terms of freedom and kind of – well, just kind of general society overall,

00:36:35have things been continuing to get worse?

00:36:37Or was COVID potentially the peak?

00:36:39And regardless of that, do we have to kind of have the coming catastrophe in order to reset?

00:36:45Meaning, is there any way out of it?

00:36:46Or, no, we've got to go through the storm and we're going to build something better on the other side?

00:36:50Yeah, I don't see any particular way that, you know, the unfunded liabilities in the U.S.

00:36:56are north of $200 trillion on an economy less than 20 trills.

00:37:00So, you really can't get out of that particularly easily.

00:37:03But I don't see any particular way for a soft landing.

00:37:07Of course, I was working for that for many years.

00:37:10And the soft landing scenario was my ideal.

00:37:13And so, to a large degree, I blame libertarians and minarchists for not embracing peaceful parenting.

00:37:19Because if they had done that back in the day – I was talking about that even before my daughter was born –

00:37:23you know, we'd have an entire cohort of millions of young people

00:37:27who would be living demonstrations of the value of the non-aggression principle.

00:37:32Because, with regards to libertarianism, you know, they're against violations of the non-aggression principle.

00:37:38Now, I don't know if it's because I was a business owner for so many years,

00:37:42but in a business owner scenario, you have to figure out which are the variables most under my control

00:37:51that are going to have the most beneficial effect.

00:37:53So, of course, you know, if you're a business owner, if they lower taxes, that's a plus.

00:37:59But if you pour all of your energy into trying to get taxes lowered

00:38:01and don't actually produce any goods and services for the economy,

00:38:04then you're not going to make it as a business.

00:38:06So, you have to figure out what variables are under your control.

00:38:10Now, with – and this is all prior to Bitcoin, of course –

00:38:13So, my case to the libertarians was, based upon sort of my business sorting algorithm,

00:38:19what are the violations of – what are the most common violations of the non-aggression principle

00:38:23that we have the most control over?

00:38:25Well, it's not foreign policy.

00:38:26It's not the Federal Reserve.

00:38:28It's not the control of the interest rates.

00:38:30It's not inflation.

00:38:31The most widespread violations of the non-aggression principle

00:38:34that we have the most control over is child abuse.

00:38:37And I got these – I don't know exactly how – I don't exactly know how to reproduce it.

00:38:46A thousand yards – like a thousand yards there.

00:38:48Like, bro, this is a conference in England.

00:38:51In English, why are you breaking into fluent Klingon mixed with some African clicking language?

00:38:56I don't know what you're doing.

00:38:57Like, no Elvish here.

00:38:58Like, it was somehow completely bizarre.

00:39:00Like, no, no, no, I want to argue about the Laffer curve

00:39:03and I want to argue about a commodity-backed currency.

00:39:07And it's like, you can't affect any of that.

00:39:10You can't affect any of that.

00:39:11And I always have a bit of a problem when people want to fight a battle

00:39:14they're never going to participate in.

00:39:16And they know they're not.

00:39:18They know.

00:39:18My contribution to world peace is to reenact, using my chessboard,

00:39:23the Napoleonic battles.

00:39:25And it's like, you know, that's all done.

00:39:27It doesn't do anything.

00:39:27You can't change anything.

00:39:29Or like all the people who were like, well, if I was in charge,

00:39:31it's like, well, you're not.

00:39:32You're not in charge.

00:39:33So what is the biggest violations of the non-aggression principle

00:39:36that you can do the most about?

00:39:37And that's child abuse.

00:39:38For sure.

00:39:39It's, you know, even if you were to do something illegal

00:39:42to oppose the state, that's a bad thing.

00:39:44And you're going to go to jail, right?

00:39:46But saying to people, don't hit your kids, that's legal.

00:39:51I mean, nobody's going to go to jail for not hitting their kids.

00:39:54And nobody's going to go to jail for saying,

00:39:56you shouldn't hit your kids.

00:39:57And so it's the safest, the most effective,

00:40:01one where you can record the biggest change.

00:40:03I did a sort of back at the napkin calculation and my show,

00:40:07because I've had almost a billion views and downloads by now,

00:40:09my show has prevented a billion and a half assaults upon children.

00:40:13That's a big change in the world, right?

00:40:14And I would compare that to all the libertarians and say,

00:40:19well, here's my measurable reduction in violations

00:40:22of the non-aggression principle.

00:40:24I got a billion and a half reductions in violations

00:40:28of the non-aggression principle against the most helpless

00:40:31and dependent members of society, which is children.

00:40:33That's my record.

00:40:35And I stand by it enormously proudly.

00:40:37What have you got?

00:40:38Well, well, I wrote some articles

00:40:43and I advocated for this

00:40:45and I donated money to, I don't know,

00:40:48Harry Brown back in the day,

00:40:49Michael Battenerich and whoever is the latest.

00:40:52And it's like, okay, what actual reductions in violence

00:40:55has your actions over the past couple of decades caused?

00:40:59And if the answer is nothing measurable,

00:41:03well, I mean, I have, I'm an empiricist.

00:41:05I don't, I care about what actually changes in the world

00:41:08and not what people talk about.

00:41:11So I hope that, I can't remember your original question, man.

00:41:15I'm sorry, I went too far.

00:41:17I got lost in my own brain fog.

00:41:18I've seen this beautiful paralogue again,

00:41:20because I feel that in the same vein

00:41:22that your advocacy for peaceful parenting

00:41:24is a very effective and practical way of making change.

00:41:26I find Bitcoin very much the same.

00:41:28Like these paths actually work.

00:41:30They both fall perfectly in line

00:41:32with the non-aggression principle.

00:41:33I think this helps spread the ideas.

00:41:35And the one thing, the thousand yard stare,

00:41:36it's funny because I think it goes back to even

00:41:39just why people have a problem seeing a world without the state

00:41:41in the sense that it's, again, this is mind reading.

00:41:45So I can, I'm going off the dangerous territory,

00:41:46but I imagine for a lot of people

00:41:48that would have any sort of resistance

00:41:50to the idea of peaceful parenting,

00:41:51it's because there's probably an uncomfortable truth

00:41:53that there may have been somebody

00:41:54who they do even may have potentially love

00:41:56that was an abuser in their life.

00:41:57And it's not a conversation that they want to have.

00:41:59It's that cognitive dissonance to be,

00:42:01if I accept that idea or go with it,

00:42:03that may put me in a spot

00:42:05where I may need to talk to some people

00:42:06of what happened when I was a kid.

00:42:09Well, I think that's true,

00:42:10because of course, if you're advocating

00:42:12for less foreign aid,

00:42:16you're not in a position,

00:42:18no libertarian is in a position

00:42:20where they can affect that change.

00:42:21I mean, I guess it took Elon Musk

00:42:23and his team to shut down USAID.

00:42:27But if you are constantly shouting

00:42:31your barbarically brave phrases to the wind

00:42:33when no one can hear you

00:42:34and you can't change anything,

00:42:36it's kind of tough to look at you as heroic.

00:42:38It's like saying,

00:42:39I'm a great driver

00:42:40when your wheels are constantly

00:42:42six inches off the ground

00:42:43and you're just, you know,

00:42:44hanging from a crane

00:42:45and slowly spinning.

00:42:46It's like you're just playing.

00:42:48This is like a kid's game.

00:42:49You know, you do actually want to have traction

00:42:52in your promotion of virtue.

00:42:53When you have traction

00:42:54in your promotion of virtue,

00:42:55then you engender risk.

00:42:59Because when, I mean,

00:43:00I went through this

00:43:01in promotion of peaceful parenting,

00:43:02I was called like an evil cult leader

00:43:03and all of that sort of stuff.

00:43:05And it's like, well,

00:43:06someone's got to stand up for the kids.

00:43:08And when you stand up for the kids,

00:43:09people who exploit and abuse kids,

00:43:11well, they don't like you very much.

00:43:13Of course, come not between the dragon

00:43:15and his prey,

00:43:16as the old saying goes.

00:43:18So if no one's bothered

00:43:20by what you're doing,

00:43:21you're not doing any good.

00:43:23Because if no evildoer is at all bothered

00:43:25by anything that you do or say,

00:43:28I mean, it's nice

00:43:28that you're making a lot of

00:43:29sounds with your mouth hole,

00:43:32and carving some syllables

00:43:34into the indifferent air

00:43:35that get blown away

00:43:36with the next puff of wind.

00:43:38But I don't want to pass by this life

00:43:40leaving merely a trail

00:43:42of useless syllables in my wake.

00:43:44I actually want to do good.

00:43:46Because the feeling that you get

00:43:48from doing good is so great.

00:43:52They say heroin's greater

00:43:53than your best orgasm.

00:43:55And I would argue that doing good

00:43:56is a thousand times better than heroin.

00:43:57And so I don't want any fake virtue happiness, right?

00:44:03So people who were like,

00:44:04well, I published this article

00:44:05and I spoke about this

00:44:06and I did that.

00:44:07And it's like,

00:44:08but what's measurable that you did?

00:44:10How many evil people

00:44:11have you inconvenienced?

00:44:12Like if I'm a drug researcher

00:44:14and I want to, you know, cure cancer

00:44:16and at the end of my life,

00:44:18I have disturbed or thwarted

00:44:20the growth and reproduction

00:44:22of not one cancer cell,

00:44:23my life's been a complete waste.

00:44:25It's been worse than a waste

00:44:26because the money that could have gone to me

00:44:28in doing my cancer research,

00:44:30well, the money that did go to me

00:44:32could have gone to someone

00:44:33who actually thwarts the progress of cancer.

00:44:36And so if you're not doing anything

00:44:38to actually thwart the progress of evildoers,

00:44:43it is just a greedy, vainglorious waste.

00:44:48And people love to feel good.

00:44:51They don't want to do good, obviously, right?

00:44:52But the reason why nature has implanted

00:44:54in such an overwhelming joy

00:44:56at the achievement of virtue

00:44:57is because it's really freaking dangerous, right?

00:45:00Because, you know, I mean,

00:45:00we can look through history

00:45:01and even across the world right now,

00:45:03people who are doing good

00:45:04are regularly cut down

00:45:05and deplatformed

00:45:06and attacked and slandered

00:45:07and, you know,

00:45:08their lives are made complicated

00:45:09and difficult

00:45:10in a wide variety of ways.

00:45:12And so that difficulty

00:45:13is baked into doing good,

00:45:15which is why the happiness

00:45:15on the other side

00:45:16of doing good is so great.

00:45:19And so what I don't want

00:45:20is for people to think

00:45:21that they're doing good

00:45:22when they're not

00:45:23because they're drug addicts, right?

00:45:25So a drug will make you feel good

00:45:27without actually fixing your problems

00:45:30or you having to do good

00:45:31in the world, right?

00:45:33And so I don't like drug addiction.

00:45:36I don't like people

00:45:37who lie to themselves

00:45:38about the good that they're doing

00:45:39when there's no measurable achievement

00:45:41to the good that they're doing.

00:45:43And so I want to stand

00:45:46between them and their drug.

00:45:47And the reason I do that

00:45:48is that if you stop thinking

00:45:50that you're good

00:45:51and you actually start measuring

00:45:52the good that you can do

00:45:53and can achieve,

00:45:55then the happiness that you get

00:45:57is earned.

00:45:58And that's good, don't we?

00:45:59We don't want socialism

00:46:00or communism

00:46:01when it comes to happiness.

00:46:02We want to earn our daily bread

00:46:04and we want to earn

00:46:04our daily happiness from virtue.

00:46:07But of course,

00:46:08that's the thousand yard stare

00:46:10is when you go to people

00:46:11who think they're doing good

00:46:12and uses the old Socratic argument

00:46:14versus a sophist, right?

00:46:15Oh, you think you know justice.

00:46:17Let me ask you about justice.

00:46:18Oh, you think you know truth.

00:46:19You think you know virtue.

00:46:20Let me ask you about these things.

00:46:22And so for me, it's like,

00:46:23oh, so you think you're doing good.

00:46:25What measurable good have you done?

00:46:27Well, I've done this,

00:46:28that and the other.

00:46:28It's like, okay,

00:46:28but how many evil people's plans

00:46:31have you thwarted

00:46:32and how many people

00:46:33have you inspired

00:46:33to practical virtue?

00:46:35Practical virtue.

00:46:35This is my old Anglo-Saxon,

00:46:37half Irish, half German roots

00:46:38of like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:40Nicey, nicey talk, talk.

00:46:41How about some actual,

00:46:42you know, if I had an engineer

00:46:43who's constantly talking about,

00:46:44well, you know,

00:46:45I'm going to produce

00:46:46this great widget.

00:46:46It's going to be fantastic.

00:46:47And it's like,

00:46:49can I see the widget?

00:46:50At some point,

00:46:51is that too much to ask?

00:46:52And can I see things manifest

00:46:54in the real world?

00:46:55Or are you just platonically

00:46:57creating sky scenes

00:46:58and saying, you know,

00:47:00that cloud looks a lot

00:47:01like von Mises.

00:47:01Well, that cloud looks

00:47:02a lot like freedom.

00:47:03It's like, great.

00:47:04Can we actually achieve

00:47:04some freedom on the ground?

00:47:05No, I would rather describe clouds.

00:47:08So, of course,

00:47:08when you come between

00:47:09drug addicts and their drug,

00:47:12they get kind of mad at you.

00:47:13And this is sort of

00:47:13what happened to libertarians

00:47:14where I was saying,

00:47:16you're going to need

00:47:16some measurable virtue

00:47:17in the world.

00:47:18And the best thing

00:47:18that we can do

00:47:19is focus on parenting.

00:47:20And I talked to conferences

00:47:21about this.

00:47:22And, of course,

00:47:24I have a whole theory

00:47:24of ethics

00:47:25that has been largely ignored,

00:47:26even though it's

00:47:27absolutely robust.

00:47:28And I've debated it with,

00:47:29it's funny,

00:47:30I've debated more

00:47:30my theory of property rights

00:47:32and the non-aggression principle

00:47:33more with non-libertarians

00:47:35than with libertarians,

00:47:36even though libertarians,

00:47:38it justifies everything

00:47:39that libertarianism has.

00:47:41But I think it is,

00:47:42it's the old thing

00:47:43from Hitchhiker's Guide

00:47:44to the Galaxy

00:47:44when the computer comes up

00:47:46at the answer to life

00:47:47is 42

00:47:47and the philosophers

00:47:49get really mad

00:47:50because they want to be able

00:47:50to keep debating it

00:47:51and they can't

00:47:52if the answer is constrained

00:47:53to 42.

00:47:54So, yeah,

00:47:55people would rather

00:47:55talk about stuff

00:47:56than take on risks.

00:47:57I get that.

00:47:58People would rather daydream

00:47:59than inconvenience evildoers

00:48:01who are going to give them

00:48:03some blowback.

00:48:04And I just,

00:48:06I don't like that.

00:48:07I think if you're not going to engage

00:48:09in the practical actions

00:48:11of promoting virtue

00:48:12and are willing to accept

00:48:13the inevitable blowback

00:48:15from people

00:48:16whose evil intentions

00:48:17you're thwarting,

00:48:18then you should not pretend

00:48:20to be a hero

00:48:23or champion of virtue.

00:48:24If you're not angering anyone,

00:48:26you're not doing any good.

00:48:28And I just don't want people

00:48:29who provide the benefit of virtue

00:48:33without the actual achievement

00:48:36of virtue.

00:48:38And I mean,

00:48:40it's funny because

00:48:41I'm being back on X.

00:48:43I'm like,

00:48:44it's not my business plan.

00:48:46It just kind of happens.

00:48:47Who can I alienate

00:48:48and annoy today?

00:48:49And it's just a constant flow

00:48:51of like outraged feminists

00:48:53and the atheists.

00:48:55You know,

00:48:55I had this tweet

00:48:56that did like,

00:48:57I don't know,

00:48:57eight plus million views

00:48:59where I basically just said,

00:49:00hey, atheists,

00:49:01why don't you lie?

00:49:03I mean,

00:49:03religious people have an answer.

00:49:04Thou shall not bear false witness

00:49:06commanded by the almighty God.

00:49:08And atheists,

00:49:09what reason do you have?

00:49:10And you know,

00:49:11all the atheists are like,

00:49:12oh,

00:49:12it's obvious, man.

00:49:13I get social benefits

00:49:14and I don't like to lie.

00:49:15And it's like,

00:49:15that's just hedonism.

00:49:17How's that different

00:49:17from heaven and hell?

00:49:19Well,

00:49:19that's just hedonism.

00:49:20Well,

00:49:20I get social benefits,

00:49:21so you're bribed.

00:49:22And what if you get social benefits

00:49:23from lying,

00:49:23which a lot of people do?

00:49:25And what if you like lying,

00:49:26which a lot of people do?

00:49:28Your argument doesn't work.

00:49:29It's hedonistic.

00:49:29So,

00:49:30you know,

00:49:31now I'm annoyed with the atheist.

00:49:34So,

00:49:34it is sort of a constant thing,

00:49:37but a philosopher,

00:49:38of course,

00:49:38my job is to attempt

00:49:39to provoke thought

00:49:41by any means necessary

00:49:42short of crucifixion.

00:49:43And that does cause

00:49:45a lot of problems.

00:49:46But of course,

00:49:46the thing is,

00:49:47the people,

00:49:49I'm sure you've had this

00:49:49in your life,

00:49:50where someone says something,

00:49:52they're like,

00:49:53oh,

00:49:53that's not it.

00:49:54Oh,

00:49:54come on.

00:49:54That's ridiculous.

00:49:55Blah,

00:49:55blah,

00:49:55blah.

00:49:56And then it kind of,

00:49:56it sits like a splinter

00:49:57in the mind's eye.

00:49:58It sits there,

00:49:59sits there,

00:50:00and eventually you're like,

00:50:01oh,

00:50:01fine,

00:50:01I guess it is a legitimate question.

00:50:03And it might be some months

00:50:05or even years down the road.

00:50:06I mean,

00:50:06when I first got into philosophy,

00:50:09you know,

00:50:09I got into Aristotle,

00:50:10I got into Ayn Rand

00:50:11and other people,

00:50:12and they all had this,

00:50:13well,

00:50:13here's the good,

00:50:14here's the virtue,

00:50:14here's the right,

00:50:15here's the,

00:50:15you know,

00:50:16and I was like,

00:50:16yeah,

00:50:17that's really convincing.

00:50:18Yeah,

00:50:18yeah,

00:50:18the pursuit of excellence

00:50:19and the moral virtues,

00:50:20that's the best life.

00:50:21And Ayn Rand's,

00:50:22the whatever serves man's life's best

00:50:24is the rational,

00:50:27there was a lot of part of me

00:50:28is like,

00:50:29yeah,

00:50:30there seems to be some holes,

00:50:32there seems to be like,

00:50:33you almost,

00:50:34most moralists,

00:50:35like,

00:50:36they're preaching to,

00:50:36they're preaching diets

00:50:37to thin people,

00:50:38like,

00:50:39well,

00:50:39if you're already good,

00:50:40then here's your justification,

00:50:42it's like,

00:50:42yeah,

00:50:42but what about the people

00:50:43who aren't good?

00:50:45You know,

00:50:45how do we,

00:50:45how do we not necessarily convince them,

00:50:47but how do we know for certain

00:50:48that they're absolutely wrong?

00:50:49Like Ayn Rand says,

00:50:50that which serves man's life

00:50:51is the good,

00:50:53but lying and violence

00:50:53serves man's life a lot.

00:50:55I mean,

00:50:56I mean,

00:50:56I got deplanformed,

00:50:57on lies,

00:50:59so it actually,

00:51:00you know,

00:51:00served the people

00:51:01who wanted my audience

00:51:01very,

00:51:02very well,

00:51:02thank you very much.

00:51:04So,

00:51:04that's why it took me

00:51:05like 20 years

00:51:06of puzzling around this stuff

00:51:07before I'm like,

00:51:08I remember sitting down

00:51:08just one day in my kitchen

00:51:09saying,

00:51:10I'm not getting up

00:51:10from this table.

00:51:11I drank a big giant coffee

00:51:13and I'm like,

00:51:13I know I'm going to have to pee,

00:51:14but I'm not getting up

00:51:15from this table

00:51:15until I've solved this problem.

00:51:17So,

00:51:17it's a bladder-fueled

00:51:19philosophical breakthrough.

00:51:21Sorry,

00:51:21I've led you,

00:51:21I've led you on a real journey here,

00:51:23so,

00:51:24hope that makes sense.

00:51:24No,

00:51:24I got lots that I want to tease out

00:51:25and I also want to point out

00:51:26that idea of just like

00:51:27leaving an idea

00:51:28and what it can grow into later.

00:51:29I just feel compelled

00:51:30to point out

00:51:30that you were my introduction

00:51:31to Bitcoin.

00:51:33And so,

00:51:33that and what it grew into,

00:51:35it took time,

00:51:35was incredibly impactful

00:51:37on my life as a whole.

00:51:39I want to kind of pause

00:51:39on the idea

00:51:40of both the atheist,

00:51:41measurable good,

00:51:42and doing what's actually practical.

00:51:44I was listening to your conversation

00:51:45with Dr. Bob Murphy,

00:51:46reflecting on now,

00:51:47and you're even,

00:51:47I'm going to church,

00:51:48I believe,

00:51:48right now as well too.

00:51:50And the thing that stood out to me,

00:51:51and I don't really have a question here,

00:51:52it's more if I kind of want to get your intake on,

00:51:53your thoughts on it

00:51:55because I'm not sure what to make of it.

00:51:56So,

00:51:56I saw a recent,

00:51:57not a great scientific analysis,

00:51:58but it was basically

00:51:59a personality breakdown

00:52:00of Bitcoiners.

00:52:01And Bitcoiners,

00:52:02I think it's the Myers-Briggs,

00:52:04were hugely overrepresented

00:52:06in INTPs,

00:52:07which is thinkers and logicians,

00:52:09and hugely overrepresented

00:52:10in INTJs,

00:52:11which are roughly

00:52:125.4% of the population,

00:52:14but for Bitcoiners,

00:52:15it's more than 50%.

00:52:16What I found particularly interesting

00:52:18about that-

00:52:18INTJ,

00:52:19you said the first one

00:52:20was sort of rational,

00:52:21logical INTJ,

00:52:22Yes,

00:52:23the INTJ is your thinkers and logicians,

00:52:25and then,

00:52:26sorry,

00:52:26that's INTP,

00:52:27my apologies,

00:52:28INTP,

00:52:29and then INTJs was the architects.

00:52:31And what I found particularly interesting

00:52:33about that observation

00:52:34is I wasn't surprised

00:52:35that those were overrepresented

00:52:36in Bitcoin,

00:52:37but what it did surprise me

00:52:38is that in Bitcoin,

00:52:40at least on Twitter

00:52:41and a lot of people

00:52:41that I interact with

00:52:42and talk to regularly,

00:52:44there is a strong undercurrent

00:52:46of Christianity

00:52:46and kind of spirituality

00:52:47within the Bitcoin community.

00:52:49And from a personality standpoint,

00:52:51the stats on thinkers

00:52:53and logicians in particular

00:52:54are the lowest religious group.

00:52:57They report the lowest

00:52:58strong religious beliefs.

00:53:00And I found

00:53:01that there was some sort of parallel,

00:53:03but I couldn't quite put my finger on

00:53:04maybe what's happening there.

00:53:05Seeing you,

00:53:05who wrote,

00:53:06I believe it was against the gods,

00:53:07seeing you coming from

00:53:08the atheist position

00:53:09and then now attending church

00:53:11and then having these

00:53:11logician Bitcoiners

00:53:12also heavily invested,

00:53:14it seems,

00:53:15in Christianity,

00:53:16I don't know if perhaps

00:53:17it's a rejection of the state

00:53:19and that also being a little bit

00:53:20kind of an atheist organization

00:53:22or if it's just purely

00:53:23empirical data.

00:53:24I just really want to get

00:53:25your thoughts on

00:53:26if you have any idea

00:53:27why Bitcoiners might also

00:53:28be kind of converging

00:53:29on that same conclusion,

00:53:30at least that's what it looks like.

00:53:32Well, I'm sure you remember

00:53:34the story of Jesus

00:53:35and the money changers.

00:53:37Oh yeah.

00:53:38I did an AI,

00:53:40give me an image

00:53:41of Jesus flipping the tables

00:53:42and of course it was Jesus

00:53:44doing a somersault

00:53:45over the tables

00:53:46because it's AI, right?

00:53:47So it's not going to

00:53:48necessarily get my intention.

00:53:50But yeah, for sure.

00:53:51So the skepticism

00:53:53of corrupt money

00:53:56is foundational

00:53:57to modern Christianity.

00:53:59Now I say modern Christianity

00:54:01because this is going back

00:54:03to Martin Luther.

00:54:03Of course, I was raised

00:54:04in the Protestant tradition

00:54:06and the Anglican tradition,

00:54:07which looks at the Catholic church

00:54:09as got too big,

00:54:11got too powerful

00:54:12and got kind of corrupt.

00:54:13So Martin Luther

00:54:14came out of a rebellion

00:54:18against some of the

00:54:19more financially corrupt

00:54:20practices of the Catholic church.

00:54:24And so there were

00:54:25these indulgences.

00:54:26Indulgences were the idea

00:54:28you'd go to limbo

00:54:29and you'd spend, you know,

00:54:3110,000 years in limbo

00:54:32before getting to heaven.

00:54:33And if you sin,

00:54:34it's going to be 12,000 years.

00:54:36But if you give

00:54:36a certain amount of money

00:54:37to the church,

00:54:38they can take the excess virtues,

00:54:39excuse me,

00:54:40of Jesus and the saints

00:54:41and then get you down

00:54:42to 8,000 years.

00:54:43So they were selling,

00:54:44you know, 4,000 years

00:54:45less in limbo.

00:54:47And that did not seem

00:54:49quite the most elevated

00:54:51application of Christ-like morality.

00:54:54And then it got to the point

00:54:55where you could even

00:54:56buy it ahead of time.

00:54:57So if you were going to go

00:54:58and spend the weekend

00:55:00with your mistress in Calais,

00:55:02then you could pay ahead of time

00:55:04to have that sin

00:55:05not accumulate upon you.

00:55:07and you were buying absolution

00:55:08even ahead of time.

00:55:10Now that's...

00:55:11It's like a fine.

00:55:11It's legal for a fee.

00:55:13It got really,

00:55:14it got really kind of nuts, right?

00:55:17So the skepticism

00:55:19of the corrupting power

00:55:20of money

00:55:22is certainly

00:55:24originated in Jesus.

00:55:26I mean,

00:55:27it's one of the few

00:55:28violent acts

00:55:29that Jesus did.

00:55:30And that's really important.

00:55:32I mean,

00:55:32Jesus got nailed

00:55:34to a cross

00:55:35and said,

00:55:36forgive them, Father,

00:55:37for they know not what they...

00:55:38So he could forgive guys

00:55:40pounding railway spikes

00:55:41through his hands and feet.

00:55:44But

00:55:45he used a whip

00:55:47on the money changers.

00:55:49Now that's really,

00:55:51really powerful

00:55:51when you sort of

00:55:52drill down

00:55:52into the essence of it.

00:55:55So he saw people

00:55:57lying,

00:55:58cheating,

00:55:58stealing.

00:55:59He forgave thieves.

00:56:00He forgave adulterers.

00:56:05And he forgave those

00:56:06who murdered him.

00:56:08But he could not

00:56:09forgive those

00:56:10who profited

00:56:11off

00:56:11people's thirst

00:56:13for salvation

00:56:14and virtue.

00:56:15That was

00:56:15the greatest evil,

00:56:18according to

00:56:19Jesus' use of force,

00:56:20the greatest evil

00:56:21were the money changers

00:56:22in the temples

00:56:23who charged you

00:56:25serious rates of interest

00:56:26or conversion rates

00:56:27for people

00:56:28who wanted to

00:56:28give their devotionals

00:56:29in the local currency.

00:56:31It's pretty wild.

00:56:33And certainly

00:56:34the idea

00:56:36that

00:56:36the modern

00:56:38central bankers

00:56:39are

00:56:41financially corrupt.

00:56:43And I don't even

00:56:44blame the individuals

00:56:45that much.

00:56:45The system is so corrupt

00:56:46that either

00:56:47only the corrupt

00:56:48want to run it

00:56:49or it corrupts

00:56:50those who

00:56:51go in even

00:56:52with the greatest ideals.

00:56:54And it keeps out

00:56:55those who wouldn't

00:56:56be corrupted

00:56:56like Ron Paul

00:56:57would not have been corrupted

00:56:58and so he's kept out.

00:56:59And they certainly

00:56:59tried to

00:57:00keep Trump out.

00:57:01His level of corruption

00:57:03I would say

00:57:04is maybe a smidge

00:57:05higher than Dr. Paul's

00:57:06but certainly lower

00:57:07than others

00:57:08who are in that environment.

00:57:11So I think

00:57:12for Bitcoiners

00:57:13you cannot have

00:57:15freedom

00:57:17if you are

00:57:19constantly being

00:57:19stolen from.

00:57:21You don't have

00:57:22property rights

00:57:23if people take

00:57:2410% of your crops

00:57:25every year

00:57:25and it escalates.

00:57:27You don't have

00:57:28freedom

00:57:29if people

00:57:30can go

00:57:31into debt

00:57:32using your signature.

00:57:34I mean

00:57:34can you plan

00:57:35for your finances

00:57:35is every time

00:57:37you open

00:57:37oh somebody

00:57:37bought a computer

00:57:38using my signature

00:57:39oh somebody

00:57:40bought a car

00:57:40somebody bought

00:57:41a house

00:57:41somebody borrowed

00:57:43$10,000

00:57:43you can't plan

00:57:44anything

00:57:45if you don't

00:57:46have control

00:57:47over your property.

00:57:50And so

00:57:50the

00:57:52beautiful thing

00:57:53about Christianity

00:57:54is

00:57:55well one of the

00:57:55beautiful things

00:57:56about Christianity

00:57:56is to focus

00:57:57on free will.

00:57:57a coerced choice

00:57:59is not a choice.

00:58:01And so

00:58:02to maximize

00:58:03free will

00:58:04is essential

00:58:06in the Christian

00:58:07conception

00:58:07of virtue.

00:58:08It's one of the

00:58:09reasons why

00:58:09it was the Christians

00:58:10and really the

00:58:11Christians alone

00:58:11who worked so hard

00:58:12for many

00:58:13decades

00:58:14to end slavery

00:58:16around the world

00:58:16and did a very good

00:58:17job of that

00:58:18and because

00:58:18if you're coerced

00:58:19you can't make

00:58:20free will choices

00:58:21if you can't make

00:58:21free will choices

00:58:22you can't get to heaven.

00:58:24And so

00:58:24the more choice

00:58:25the better

00:58:25and

00:58:26I was posting

00:58:28about this

00:58:28on X

00:58:29the other day

00:58:29I've talked

00:58:29about it

00:58:30for years

00:58:30most people

00:58:32don't want

00:58:32to be in

00:58:33the stock

00:58:33market

00:58:33most people

00:58:35don't want

00:58:35to be

00:58:36buying

00:58:36bonds

00:58:37and

00:58:38other

00:58:40financial

00:58:40instruments

00:58:41of weird

00:58:42conceptual

00:58:43voodoo

00:58:43right

00:58:44they don't

00:58:44want to

00:58:45the stock

00:58:46market

00:58:46was originally

00:58:47designed

00:58:47for people

00:58:47who had

00:58:48some knowledge

00:58:48of the

00:58:49industries

00:58:49had some

00:58:49knowledge

00:58:50of the

00:58:50companies

00:58:50who were

00:58:50investing

00:58:51and knew

00:58:51what they

00:58:51were doing

00:58:52most people

00:58:53don't want

00:58:53to be

00:58:54in the

00:58:54stock

00:58:55market

00:58:55they don't

00:58:55want to

00:58:55be in

00:58:56the bond

00:58:56market

00:58:56they just

00:58:56want to

00:58:57put the

00:58:57money in

00:58:58the bank

00:58:58and have

00:58:58it there

00:58:58when they

00:58:59get back

00:58:59that's all

00:58:59but when you've

00:59:00got inflation

00:59:01running at even

00:59:02at a couple of

00:59:02percentage points

00:59:03a year

00:59:03you're going to

00:59:04lose it all

00:59:05by the time

00:59:05you retire

00:59:06so you don't

00:59:07even have the

00:59:07choice to hang

00:59:08on to your

00:59:08own savings

00:59:09like you work

00:59:10for you know

00:59:11you get taxed

00:59:12at 40%

00:59:13you work for

00:59:1350 years

00:59:1420 years

00:59:14have just been

00:59:15stolen

00:59:15you were just

00:59:17a slave

00:59:18for 20 years

00:59:19working for others

00:59:20you know that

00:59:20in various places

00:59:22in the west

00:59:23your tax freedom

00:59:24day is past

00:59:25the middle

00:59:25of the year

00:59:26first six months

00:59:26you work for

00:59:27the government

00:59:27last six months

00:59:28you get the

00:59:29table scraps

00:59:29for yourself

00:59:30so we need

00:59:32more free will

00:59:34in the world

00:59:35and this is why

00:59:35I focus on

00:59:36peaceful parenting

00:59:37children who

00:59:37are raised

00:59:38peacefully

00:59:38have choices

00:59:39children who

00:59:40are raised

00:59:40violently

00:59:41have mostly

00:59:41just reactions

00:59:42they've got

00:59:43this trauma

00:59:43this stress

00:59:44this problem

00:59:44this is why

00:59:45there's promiscuity

00:59:46and drug addiction

00:59:46and alcoholism

00:59:47and a lot of

00:59:48social conformity

00:59:49and so on

00:59:50because people

00:59:51are unhappy

00:59:51in themselves

00:59:52so they self

00:59:52medicate

00:59:53through the

00:59:54dopamine

00:59:54of conformity

00:59:55or drugs

00:59:56or alcohol

00:59:56or sex

00:59:57or something

00:59:57or gambling

00:59:58some things

00:59:58like that

00:59:59so all they're

01:00:00doing is reacting

01:00:00to managing

01:00:01the pain

01:00:01of their

01:00:02childhood

01:00:02children who

01:00:03are raised

01:00:04peacefully

01:00:04they have a

01:00:05360 view

01:00:06they can do

01:00:06whatever they

01:00:06want

01:00:07they're not

01:00:07running from

01:00:08pain

01:00:08and trauma

01:00:09and loneliness

01:00:11and so on

01:00:12right

01:00:12so they can

01:00:12actually make

01:00:13choices

01:00:13rather than

01:00:13just react

01:00:14to really

01:00:15negative

01:00:16internal stimuli

01:00:17you know

01:00:17you don't have

01:00:18much free will

01:00:18if you're hiking

01:00:19in the woods

01:00:19and you suddenly

01:00:20notice a bear

01:00:20chasing you

01:00:21I mean

01:00:22you can't be like

01:00:23hey I wonder

01:00:24what song I want

01:00:24to listen to next

01:00:25and I wonder

01:00:26if I want to go

01:00:26this way

01:00:27or this way

01:00:27or maybe I'll

01:00:28sit here for a bit

01:00:29and have some

01:00:30snacks as long as

01:00:31I'm not in

01:00:32places in Canada

01:00:33where they'll

01:00:34find you

01:00:34$25,000

01:00:35if you're not

01:00:36indigenous

01:00:36for hiking

01:00:37in the woods

01:00:37oh yeah

01:00:38it's crazy

01:00:38so if you're

01:00:39being chased

01:00:40by a bear

01:00:40you have

01:00:41fight or flight

01:00:42like your

01:00:42entire existence

01:00:43has been reduced

01:00:44to fight or flight

01:00:45and you have

01:00:47about the same

01:00:48liberties as

01:00:49someone in a

01:00:49prison

01:00:50actually you have

01:00:51more liberties

01:00:51in a prison

01:00:52because you can

01:00:52do some things

01:00:53other than

01:00:53fight or flight

01:00:54and so

01:00:55to maximize

01:00:56choice

01:00:57means to minimize

01:00:58the amount of

01:00:59predation and

01:00:59coercion in our

01:01:00lives

01:01:00so I want

01:01:02people to choose

01:01:02if they want

01:01:03to go into

01:01:04the stock market

01:01:05not to be forced

01:01:06into there

01:01:06because otherwise

01:01:07inflation steals

01:01:08their money

01:01:09and to maximize

01:01:12choice is one

01:01:14of the goals

01:01:15of Christianity

01:01:15and it certainly

01:01:16is one of the

01:01:17goals of Bitcoin

01:01:18you know as you

01:01:19know Bitcoin

01:01:19has outperformed

01:01:21gold for since

01:01:232011

01:01:24it's on pace

01:01:25with gold at

01:01:25the moment

01:01:26even when

01:01:28the vast majority

01:01:30of people are

01:01:30still fairly

01:01:31unfamiliar with

01:01:32the orange pill

01:01:33but I think the

01:01:34Christian goal of

01:01:35maximizing freedom

01:01:36which means reducing

01:01:37compulsion and the

01:01:38Bitcoin goal of

01:01:39maximizing freedom

01:01:40by reducing

01:01:41reactionary

01:01:42financial strategies

01:01:44that you're compelled

01:01:45into performing

01:01:47because inflation

01:01:48steals your money

01:01:49you know if you've

01:01:51got a good that

01:01:52is decaying

01:01:53it's use it or

01:01:54lose it

01:01:55and if you have

01:01:56a good that is

01:01:57appreciating in value

01:01:58you know it's funny

01:01:59when I first

01:02:00I was first

01:02:00brought to Canada

01:02:01in 1977

01:02:03and a candy bar

01:02:05was a dime

01:02:06a dime

01:02:07and now

01:02:08it's a buck

01:02:09fifty

01:02:09buck thirty

01:02:10whatever it is

01:02:10right

01:02:10and that's

01:02:13just straight up

01:02:13theft

01:02:14the money

01:02:15that is

01:02:15taken from

01:02:16you

01:02:16I mean if

01:02:17you put gold

01:02:17bars in the

01:02:18bank account

01:02:18you come back

01:02:19in ten years

01:02:20and they're

01:02:21thirty thirty

01:02:21percent of them

01:02:22are gone

01:02:22that's straight up

01:02:23theft

01:02:23but if you put

01:02:25cash

01:02:25in your

01:02:26safety deposit

01:02:27box

01:02:28your bank

01:02:28account

01:02:28you come back

01:02:29ten years

01:02:29later

01:02:30and thirty

01:02:30percent

01:02:30of it

01:02:30is gone

01:02:31we've

01:02:32somehow

01:02:32become

01:02:33normalized

01:02:34to that

01:02:34but it is

01:02:35straight up

01:02:35theft

01:02:35counterfeiting

01:02:36is the

01:02:37thief

01:02:37of value

01:02:38and I

01:02:39would love

01:02:40for people

01:02:40to make

01:02:41decisions

01:02:41about their

01:02:42lives

01:02:42not in

01:02:43hysterical

01:02:43panicked

01:02:44fight or

01:02:44flight

01:02:45reaction

01:02:46because the

01:02:46bear of

01:02:46inflation

01:02:47is chasing

01:02:48them and

01:02:48their wallets

01:02:49through the

01:02:50woods

01:02:50and when

01:02:52you put

01:02:52your money

01:02:53in some

01:02:53other place

01:02:54some fixed

01:02:54place

01:02:55I obviously

01:02:55I prefer

01:02:56bitcoin

01:02:56to just

01:02:57about anything

01:02:58else

01:02:58then you

01:02:59suddenly

01:02:59have choices

01:03:00because your

01:03:01money is just

01:03:01not being

01:03:02pilfered while

01:03:02you sleep

01:03:03and if you

01:03:05wake up in

01:03:05the middle

01:03:05of the night

01:03:06and you

01:03:06think you

01:03:06hear a

01:03:07thump

01:03:07and a

01:03:07crash

01:03:07from

01:03:07downstairs

01:03:08you don't

01:03:09have the

01:03:09choice to

01:03:09go back

01:03:10to sleep

01:03:10you've got

01:03:12to get up

01:03:12and do

01:03:12something

01:03:13with it

01:03:13because you're

01:03:13in a

01:03:13situation

01:03:14of fight

01:03:14or flight

01:03:15and the

01:03:16general

01:03:16levels

01:03:16of anxiety

01:03:17mental health

01:03:19is getting

01:03:19worse

01:03:19and there's

01:03:20lots of

01:03:20reasons

01:03:20for that

01:03:21but I

01:03:21think one

01:03:21of the

01:03:22reasons

01:03:22is people

01:03:22just have

01:03:23this

01:03:23general

01:03:23anxiety

01:03:24that their

01:03:25lives

01:03:25are being

01:03:25stolen

01:03:26minute

01:03:26by minute

01:03:27through

01:03:28inflation

01:03:29and we've

01:03:30yet to

01:03:30see the

01:03:31covid stuff

01:03:31hit for

01:03:32real in

01:03:32terms of

01:03:3340% of

01:03:33the u.s.

01:03:34dollars ever

01:03:34were printed

01:03:35after 2020

01:03:36and I

01:03:37think a lot

01:03:38of people's

01:03:38generalized

01:03:38anxiety is

01:03:39you know

01:03:41there's a

01:03:41bear

01:03:42there's a

01:03:42bear around

01:03:43there's a

01:03:43predator around

01:03:44who keeps

01:03:44stealing

01:03:45I mean if

01:03:45you woke

01:03:46up in

01:03:47your house

01:03:47every morning

01:03:48something was

01:03:49stolen

01:03:49you'd be

01:03:50pretty nervous

01:03:50you'd have a

01:03:51tough time

01:03:52sleeping and

01:03:52you wouldn't

01:03:53feel comfortable

01:03:53or secure

01:03:54in your own

01:03:54home

01:03:54you wake up

01:03:55well the

01:03:55blender's gone

01:03:56you wake up

01:03:56well some

01:03:56milk has gone

01:03:57from the

01:03:57fridge

01:03:57oh the

01:03:58box has

01:03:59gone from

01:03:59the basement

01:03:59so somebody's

01:04:00coming in

01:04:00and stealing

01:04:01from you

01:04:01in your

01:04:02house

01:04:03every day

01:04:03every night

01:04:05you'd be

01:04:06really nervous

01:04:06and anxious

01:04:07and I

01:04:08think that

01:04:08bitcoin is

01:04:09also not

01:04:10only to give

01:04:11people back

01:04:11their free

01:04:12will and

01:04:12their choice

01:04:13because they're

01:04:13not being

01:04:13hunted by

01:04:14the bears

01:04:14of central

01:04:15banking

01:04:15but it

01:04:17also gives

01:04:17them some

01:04:18peace and

01:04:19security and

01:04:20some mental

01:04:21health

01:04:21you know

01:04:22there was

01:04:22this old

01:04:23thing

01:04:23would you

01:04:23take a

01:04:24million dollars

01:04:24or be

01:04:24hunted by

01:04:25a creature

01:04:25for the

01:04:26rest of

01:04:26your life

01:04:26and blah

01:04:26blah

01:04:27blah

01:04:27and it's

01:04:27like

01:04:27but we

01:04:28are hunted

01:04:29by a

01:04:29creature

01:04:29every

01:04:30waking

01:04:31moment

01:04:31I mean

01:04:32during the

01:04:32time of

01:04:33this

01:04:33conversation

01:04:33whatever

01:04:34money we

01:04:35have in

01:04:35fiat has

01:04:36diminished

01:04:36in value

01:04:37and US

01:04:38dollars lost

01:04:39like over

01:04:3998% of

01:04:40its value

01:04:40since 1913

01:04:41since the

01:04:42creation of

01:04:42the Fed

01:04:43I mean

01:04:43that's

01:04:44straight up

01:04:44theft and

01:04:45money transfer

01:04:45and you

01:04:46know I

01:04:47would have

01:04:47some respect

01:04:48for socialists

01:04:48if they

01:04:48talked about

01:04:49bitcoin and

01:04:49ending

01:04:50central banking

01:04:50but they

01:04:51don't

01:04:51because they

01:04:52want the

01:04:53ring

01:04:53they don't

01:04:53want to

01:04:53end the

01:04:54ring

01:04:54so I

01:04:56think that

01:04:56the

01:04:57coincidence

01:04:58of the

01:04:59maximization

01:05:00of free

01:05:00will

01:05:00is common

01:05:02to both

01:05:02the Christian

01:05:03mission

01:05:03and the

01:05:04bitcoiners

01:05:04and I

01:05:04think that's

01:05:05probably where

01:05:05those two

01:05:06circles overlap

01:05:06if that makes

01:05:07sense

01:05:07no that's

01:05:08wonderful I

01:05:08never considered

01:05:09it from that

01:05:09standpoint and

01:05:10that does

01:05:10make sense

01:05:10I'd also

01:05:11never

01:05:11considered

01:05:11that the

01:05:12story of

01:05:14the money

01:05:14changers

01:05:14and the

01:05:15whip was

01:05:15really the

01:05:16biggest

01:05:16example of

01:05:16violence

01:05:17compared to

01:05:17even being

01:05:18put on the

01:05:18cross

01:05:18I kind of

01:05:19think on that

01:05:19one a little

01:05:19bit more

01:05:19because you

01:05:20can you

01:05:20can fight

01:05:21back against

01:05:21like a

01:05:22thief you

01:05:22can fight

01:05:22back against

01:05:23him like

01:05:24a thief

01:05:24you know

01:05:25puts a

01:05:25knife and you

01:05:26can jujitsu

01:05:26him or you

01:05:27can run or

01:05:28you can

01:05:28and you can

01:05:29choose to

01:05:29surrender your

01:05:30wallet or

01:05:30whatever it

01:05:30is but

01:05:31there's

01:05:31something but

01:05:31when your

01:05:33money is

01:05:33stolen by

01:05:34sort of

01:05:34shadowy

01:05:35statist or

01:05:35quasi-statist

01:05:36entities and

01:05:37there's nothing

01:05:37you can't

01:05:38fight back

01:05:39against that

01:05:39and I think

01:05:39that's why

01:05:40Jesus got

01:05:41the most

01:05:41angry at

01:05:42the people

01:05:42who had

01:05:43the least

01:05:44choice so

01:05:45and why he

01:05:46forgave the

01:05:47people nailing

01:05:47him up was

01:05:48because they

01:05:49didn't accept

01:05:49that he was

01:05:50the son of

01:05:50God and so

01:05:51they didn't

01:05:51have the

01:05:52choice to

01:05:52treat him

01:05:52as anything

01:05:53other than

01:05:53a common

01:05:54criminal and

01:05:54they believed

01:05:55that it was

01:05:55important to

01:05:56obey the

01:05:56state no

01:05:57matter what

01:05:57so he said

01:05:58they know

01:05:58not what

01:05:58they're doing

01:05:59they don't

01:05:59understand that

01:06:00they have

01:06:00a choice

01:06:00but the

01:06:01money changers

01:06:01were feasting

01:06:02and profiting

01:06:03off people's

01:06:04desire for

01:06:05salvation and

01:06:06virtue and

01:06:07communion with

01:06:07God and

01:06:08that's pretty

01:06:10terrible

01:06:11no that's a

01:06:13very very good

01:06:13observation I'm

01:06:15curious just

01:06:15quickly even to

01:06:16with looking at

01:06:17nation-state

01:06:18adoption of

01:06:18Bitcoin do you

01:06:19have concerns

01:06:20about that

01:06:20basically co-opting

01:06:21or centralizing

01:06:22it in any sort

01:06:22of meaningful way

01:06:23or do you

01:06:23think it can

01:06:24basically it'll

01:06:25just it'll

01:06:25change them in

01:06:26the same way

01:06:27it may have

01:06:27changed other

01:06:27people oh

01:06:28God above

01:06:30please let

01:06:30nation-states

01:06:31start adopting

01:06:32Bitcoin please

01:06:33God let's

01:06:34get as many

01:06:34Bitcoins into

01:06:35the wallets of

01:06:36politicians as

01:06:36humanly possible

01:06:38because then

01:06:39they're invested

01:06:39and people tend

01:06:40not to shoot

01:06:41themselves in

01:06:41the foot so

01:06:42I would love

01:06:43for nation-states

01:06:44to adopt

01:06:44Bitcoin in

01:06:45fact I sort

01:06:45of put out

01:06:46this argument

01:06:46some time ago

01:06:47that the only

01:06:49chance that say

01:06:49America has to

01:06:50pay off its

01:06:51debt and unfunded

01:06:52liabilities is to

01:06:53get as many

01:06:53Bitcoin as

01:06:54possible so that

01:06:55people will take

01:06:56that in exchange

01:06:57for the devalued

01:06:58dollar when the

01:06:59bills finally come

01:07:00due and can't

01:07:01be wriggled out

01:07:01of or escaped

01:07:02so no I you

01:07:04know I'd gift

01:07:05politicians Bitcoin

01:07:06if I could I

01:07:07would love for

01:07:08nation-states to

01:07:09start adopting

01:07:09Bitcoin I would

01:07:10love for nation-states

01:07:11to start accepting

01:07:12tax payments in

01:07:13Bitcoin because of

01:07:14course that's the

01:07:15foundational driver

01:07:15behind fiat

01:07:16currency fiat of

01:07:17course meaning

01:07:17compelled is that

01:07:19the government

01:07:19requires it for

01:07:20your tax settlements

01:07:21so no gosh if

01:07:24if there are any

01:07:24nation-states listening

01:07:25to this Bitcoin

01:07:27is the greatest

01:07:27Bitcoin is you

01:07:29know that that

01:07:29old story of the

01:07:30the woman who

01:07:31opened the little

01:07:32girl who opened

01:07:32the crate and

01:07:34and there all

01:07:34these demons flew

01:07:35out and and the

01:07:36world was infested

01:07:37with negative

01:07:38horrible things but

01:07:38then at the very

01:07:39bottom was this

01:07:40fairy called hope

01:07:41and and that was

01:07:42what was so at

01:07:43the bottom of all

01:07:44of this predation

01:07:45and counterfeiting

01:07:46and central banking

01:07:47shenanigans to put

01:07:48it mildly is the

01:07:50the orange fairy of

01:07:51hope and without

01:07:52that I honestly I

01:07:53don't know I mean

01:07:54one of the reasons I

01:07:55love Bitcoin is

01:07:55I I don't know

01:07:58how I'd have hope

01:07:58without it I

01:08:00haven't spent over

01:08:0040 years trying to

01:08:01get people to be

01:08:02rational and it's

01:08:03worked in some ways

01:08:04for sure I mean I've

01:08:05certainly changed a

01:08:06lot of people's minds

01:08:07changed my own mind

01:08:08for the better but

01:08:10without Bitcoin can

01:08:11you imagine staring

01:08:11at the future

01:08:12without Bitcoin as

01:08:15the salvation without

01:08:16the sky hook that

01:08:17gets you out of this

01:08:18inferno I I don't

01:08:19even know what it

01:08:20would be like so

01:08:20and this is why for

01:08:22me when I'm dealing

01:08:24with people in the

01:08:24world who don't

01:08:25understand Bitcoin

01:08:26I'm like oh so

01:08:27you're a despairing

01:08:27nihilist because

01:08:28you've got no

01:08:29reason for hope it's

01:08:30a really tragic

01:08:31state of mind and

01:08:32a really sad state

01:08:33of mind and to

01:08:34orange pill people

01:08:35excuse me in this

01:08:36way is to return to

01:08:38them hope and and

01:08:42with hope comes free

01:08:43will because you're

01:08:44not doomed

01:08:44that's beautiful

01:08:46Stefan I do want to

01:08:47be respectful of

01:08:47your time but I

01:08:48had two things I

01:08:49want to slip in

01:08:49quick if I could

01:08:50first and foremost

01:08:51have you come

01:08:51across have you

01:08:52played around with

01:08:53Nostra yet because

01:08:54I couldn't find you

01:08:54on there and that

01:08:55seemed like a

01:08:56wonderful place that

01:08:57you might want to

01:08:57consider spending

01:08:58some time

01:08:58I've looked into

01:09:00it I have not

01:09:01looked into it

01:09:01enough I hugely

01:09:03appreciate the

01:09:03reminder I will

01:09:04look into it

01:09:05more okay

01:09:06beautiful wonderful

01:09:07and then lastly we

01:09:08kind of touched on

01:09:08it a little bit

01:09:08earlier on when you're

01:09:09talking about for

01:09:10peaceful parenting

01:09:10you have the new

01:09:11AI generation I

01:09:12found myself thinking

01:09:13last night it's

01:09:14really a shame and

01:09:15you're gonna this is

01:09:16gonna be rude so

01:09:16please feel free to

01:09:17tell me off I was

01:09:18thinking about like the

01:09:19works that you've done

01:09:21in terms of your

01:09:21books and particularly

01:09:22like the works of

01:09:22fiction and I found

01:09:23myself wondering if a

01:09:24fiction book can have

01:09:25the cultural impact

01:09:26that it once did or

01:09:28because it's kind of

01:09:29a if it's I'm

01:09:30wondering if it's a

01:09:30medium of art that's

01:09:31kind of moving into

01:09:31the realm of cursive

01:09:32and the idea that I

01:09:34had is I was

01:09:35wondering if you'd

01:09:35ever been giving

01:09:35some consideration to

01:09:37taking some of your

01:09:38works of fiction in

01:09:38particular and turning

01:09:40them into full-on

01:09:40videos through AI

01:09:41generation I've

01:09:43actually was talking

01:09:44about this some

01:09:44months ago I have a

01:09:46novel it's a huge

01:09:48novel called almost

01:09:49which takes a German

01:09:50family and a British

01:09:52family from World

01:09:52War One to World

01:09:53War Two it would be

01:09:55at least 200 million

01:09:57plus to make as a

01:09:58miniseries I

01:09:59genuinely believe that

01:10:01certainly over the

01:10:02next whatever year

01:10:03couple of years maybe

01:10:04half a decade that

01:10:05you will be able to

01:10:06feed a book into an

01:10:07AI and get a movie

01:10:07now of course you'll

01:10:09tweak it and you'll

01:10:09say you want this

01:10:10out of the other I

01:10:11think it would be

01:10:12fantastic and and

01:10:14wild I would rather

01:10:15I'm a big one for

01:10:16waiting until the

01:10:17technology is ripe for

01:10:19that and of course

01:10:20I was a computer

01:10:21programmer for many

01:10:22decades when the

01:10:22technology is in its

01:10:23sweet spot then you

01:10:25know when it's not so

01:10:27easy that everyone can

01:10:27do it but not so

01:10:28difficult that only a

01:10:29few specialists can do

01:10:30it that's when I will

01:10:31certainly think of doing

01:10:32something like that

01:10:33because it's going to

01:10:36be just wild I mean

01:10:37they're really closing

01:10:38this uncanny valley with

01:10:39uncanny accuracy and so

01:10:41I do think that it is

01:10:42possible and I agree

01:10:43with you I think I

01:10:45certainly think that

01:10:45sitting down and

01:10:46reading a physical book

01:10:47my wife is just going

01:10:48through Anna Karenina

01:10:49at the moment and

01:10:50I'm like oh quaint

01:10:51paper portrait and so

01:10:53I this is why I do

01:10:54record the most

01:10:55audiobooks and I'm a

01:10:56trained actor so I

01:10:57have some experience

01:10:58in sort of bringing

01:10:59this stuff to life but

01:11:00I do think that sort of

01:11:01sitting there in a

01:11:02hammock reading a paper

01:11:03book is kind of going

01:11:04the way of the dodo

01:11:05and I would love to see

01:11:06what AI can do in terms

01:11:08of bringing I mean

01:11:11novels are going to be

01:11:11better for this than

01:11:12than screenplays because

01:11:13novels have the

01:11:14descriptions that the

01:11:15AI can interpret you

01:11:16know it's a windy

01:11:16parking lot whereas

01:11:18scripts generally don't

01:11:20have those it would be

01:11:20tough to feed Hamlet and

01:11:23get a movie out of

01:11:23Hamlet because there's

01:11:25very little description

01:11:26of the environment but

01:11:27a novel of course

01:11:28contains descriptions of

01:11:29the environment contains

01:11:30descriptions of the

01:11:31characters their hair

01:11:32color their height and

01:11:33their age and so on

01:11:35and so I think AI is

01:11:37going to do just in

01:11:38general a fantastic job

01:11:39of bringing the stuff to

01:11:40life and then when the

01:11:42barriers of transmission

01:11:44are removed in other

01:11:46words the very best

01:11:47stories they don't have

01:11:49to go through a studio

01:11:50situation they don't

01:11:52have to go through like

01:11:52one of the reasons I

01:11:53left the art world was

01:11:54because it was just so

01:11:55relentlessly socialist and

01:11:56communist once that

01:11:57barrier is down well then

01:11:59it's like you and I you

01:12:00know you and I in another

01:12:00universe would just be

01:12:01chatting on the phone

01:12:02and and you know

01:12:03shooting the shite and

01:12:04enjoying each other's

01:12:05thoughts but now we get

01:12:06to do this and it's

01:12:07broadcast to the world

01:12:08for eternity because the

01:12:09barriers are down we

01:12:10don't have to convince

01:12:11some TV executive to let

01:12:12us have a show or

01:12:13something so I think

01:12:15that I write some great

01:12:16stories and they also

01:12:18have been strongly

01:12:19resisted by a very

01:12:21leftist you know I

01:12:22wrote a novel before I

01:12:24became a podcaster

01:12:25called the God of

01:12:26Atheists which was

01:12:27about corruption in the

01:12:29business world and the

01:12:30innocence of children

01:12:30and it was reviewed

01:12:33by because I was in a

01:12:35right a very famous

01:12:36writing program and had

01:12:37a great teacher and it

01:12:38was reviewed by a guy

01:12:39with a PhD in English

01:12:41literature who said oh

01:12:42finally we have the great

01:12:43Canadian novel I'd be

01:12:44waiting my whole life

01:12:45for someone to actually

01:12:46write the great Canadian

01:12:47novel and he just

01:12:47praised it to the skies

01:12:48and then when my agent

01:12:51tried to take it to

01:12:52publishers they hated it

01:12:54with a virulence and a

01:12:55passion normally reserved

01:12:57for a drunk driver that

01:12:59runs over your favorite

01:13:01pet and that sort of

01:13:03hostility is something

01:13:04that as an artist I've

01:13:06sort of encountered over

01:13:08the course of my career

01:13:09both in I mean it

01:13:10happened in academia it

01:13:12happened in the theater

01:13:14world in writing in

01:13:17playwriting and it

01:13:18happened to a lesser

01:13:19degree in the business

01:13:20world because I was just

01:13:20so productive that people

01:13:21kind of had to find value

01:13:23in me because I did

01:13:24really good coding so I

01:13:28think that if the

01:13:28barriers fall between the

01:13:30artists with the best and

01:13:31most compelling and

01:13:32interesting vision and an

01:13:33audience that wants to

01:13:34see things on the screen

01:13:36rather than read them in a

01:13:37paper book I mean I if it

01:13:40becomes just a raw

01:13:41meritocracy without any

01:13:42intervening gatekeepers

01:13:44between the artists and

01:13:44the audience I think I've

01:13:46got a real shot that's

01:13:49awesome and with that

01:13:50stuff where can people go

01:13:51to get the books get the

01:13:53books check out the

01:13:53podcast join the live

01:13:55streams back on Twitter

01:13:56give us all that

01:13:57information well thanks I

01:13:58appreciate that so

01:13:59peaceful parenting dot com

01:14:00is the place to go for

01:14:01that I have a introduction

01:14:03to philosophy essential

01:14:04philosophy dot com and to

01:14:06connect with me you can

01:14:07just go to free domain dot com

01:14:08slash connect and all of

01:14:10my socials are there and

01:14:11I really really do

01:14:12appreciate the time today

01:14:13it was a really really

01:14:14enjoyable conversation

01:14:15thank you very welcome

01:14:16we'll talk soon cheers

Category

Transcript

Be the first to comment

Recommended