'Things Are Pretty Much Going South With Respects To DoD': Mfume Blasts Pentagon Over Audit Failures

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During a House Oversight Hearing in July, Rep. Kweisi Mfume (D-MD) spoke about the Pentagon's audit success rate.

Transcript

00:00Mr. Bircher, thank you very much. I appreciate being somewhere in the list and I appreciate

00:05your help. We've now moved to the distinguished gentleman, my dear friend from Maryland,

00:11the ranking member, Mr. Infume. The gentleman is recognized.

00:16Yes, sir. Thank you. Right on. I'm over it. I'm going to answer my creator one day.

00:22Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I want to thank Mr. Bircher also for

00:31sharing some important information and for his earlier action in the subcommittee today.

00:36And I mean that sincerely. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I would be remiss if I did not at least also thank

00:44the gentleman woman from the District of Columbia, Ms. Norton, for opening up for this side of the

00:49aisle and for her ever present work on this committee. And thank you, sir, for calling this

00:56hearing. I want to just get a little bit of clarity more than anything else. I've gone through much of

01:03your written testimony. Mr. Patton, I think I want to start with you so that I'm clear. Did I hear you

01:09say that if a big protest fails that the D or D could or should seek compensation? And if that were not

01:17the case, perhaps GAO should do that? I think what we at GAO said with regard to Section 885 is that DOD

01:29does not collect data to determine what the cost to DOD would be to recoup that amount, nor do they

01:36collect data from the awardee to determine what lost profits would be. There could be a lot of

01:42administrative and legal concerns or issues to making a loser pay. Why don't they collect the data?

01:51That's a good question. From their perspective, they're not statutory required to do so. And in

01:55their view, the benefit of collecting the data, excuse me, the harm, the effort outweighs the benefit

02:02to collecting that data. They don't see a need since protests at DOD are trending downward.

02:08Well, one thing that's trending at DOD is that they failed seven straight audits year after year after

02:14year. And this committee continues to point that out. So if in this case they don't see it in their

02:20interest or they don't have statutory authority to do so, I just think they need to look at the

02:26handwriting on the wall. Things are pretty much going south with respect to DOD. And what about the GAO's

02:34role in this? Do you see that if they're not doing it because they don't have statutory authority that

02:39you could, should, or are doing it? GAO probably couldn't do it because access to contractor data

02:46like that would require some mechanism to look at it to require the contractors to provide it. They

02:51don't currently do so. So it would be a challenge for GAO to do it. Then what would you suggest be put

02:58in place for them to at least provide GAO with that additional information?

03:02Initially, I think that the Department of Defense would need to collect the data.

03:07And then, as you may know, that the Department of Defense's financial systems are on GAO's high

03:12risk list because they have an inability to manage their financial system. So there could be some

03:17additional financial challenges for DOD in trying to accomplish that.

03:21Yeah, they're just running things terrible at that agency. And yet, this Congress just voted a 13%

03:28increase to what is already the largest slice of our budget. And we can't even get a clean audit,

03:34and they continue to be on the watch list. Thank you very much. Mr. Prince, you, I think, suggested

03:43that, or said, I should say, 50% of the bid protests that GAO looks at, they get dismissed. Is that right?

03:52No, it's that the 50% are deemed effective. Are deemed effective or ineffective? Effective. Effective.

03:59Okay. So in other words, in 50% of cases, either it goes to a decision from GAO ruling in favor or

04:06recommending the agency take action in favor, or the agency voluntarily takes corrective action.

04:13And what happens to all the others? They just go away?

04:16They either lose, I mean, they can go to a decision to lose, or sometimes you get into the record,

04:22I've had this experience personally, and you see there's nothing there, and you pull it because

04:26it's just not worth throwing more money after, good money after bad. Now, I got a sense from you

04:30that you thought that bid protests are not out of control and are not ballooning. Is that correct?

04:37That's correct. So how would you reconcile that with Mr. Youngkin's statement

04:42that we ought to be on the lookout for what's happening with artificial intelligence?

04:47Mr. Youngkin, I think you said there will be an explosion in bid protests, if I'm correcting or

04:53correctly referencing what your testimony is. Is that correct?

04:56Yeah, there could be an explosion with artificial intelligence or the way that people fund bid

05:01protests changes. What I was getting at, sir, was that if there is important that any solution that

05:08Congress brings to this process be one that doesn't create clunky solutions, because if we have

05:14a system that's expanding very rapidly and we have clunky things built into it, the system could collapse.

05:21So, on another part of that, you do support expanding debriefings, is that correct?

05:27Yes, sir, absolutely. It's a way, it's a very cheap and effective way, and again, with artificial

05:32intelligence, it becomes easier and easier to redact the documents. If you have a 100-page document,

05:36very quickly, artificial intelligence can pick out what's confidential, and then the document

05:41can be produced to the bidders. And Mr. Prince, you also support expanding the debriefings?

05:46I do. Okay. Mr. Chairman, I have no more questions. Thank you.

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