During a Senate Health Committee hearing in July, Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-LA) asked Board Vice President of the San Diego Unified School District Richard Barrera about the detection of learning disabilities in children by grade three.
00:00I'm going to turn it over now to Chairman Cassidy, and he'll finish this up while I go vote.
00:05Hey, thank you, and thanks for a great hearing.
00:08I know it was well attended, so thank you, Senator Tuberville.
00:10Really appreciate it.
00:11And gentlemen from Alabama, all of you, thank you all for being here.
00:15We speak a lot about science of reading.
00:19Full disclosure, my wife is the CEO of a set of four public charter schools for children with dyslexia.
00:25And she'll get referrals from other schools because, well, 20% of us, 20% of everybody watching in this room are dyslexic, according to the folks at Yale.
00:36And those who are recognized, have interventions, sometimes they're just smart enough to get by or they're mildly dyslexic.
00:47They do okay.
00:48But someone who's severely dyslexic and are without resources oftentimes does poorly.
00:53Again, my wife went into one of our maximum security prisons, and she found that 50% of the men were dyslexic.
00:59And that is compatible with literature.
01:01I think it was, she may tell me, 70%.
01:02But it was the same as found in a prison in Texas.
01:09So we know that illiteracy is a major risk factor for incarceration, and that dyslexia is a kind of principal reason for people to be illiterate.
01:17So as you speak of the need to train for the science of reading, there is particular screening required and curriculum developed for those children who are dyslexic.
01:33So Ms. Wick, any comment on that, and how do we broaden the number of kids being screened, and once we discover them, do something with them?
01:46Senator, thank you for that question.
01:49And it's such an important issue, and I'm glad you referenced that stat about folks who are in prison.
01:54It's truly one of the best ways to disenfranchise people is to ensure they can't read.
01:59I mean, that is, it's so much is floor closed to you if you're not able to read, to make yourself understood, understand others.
02:06There is, one of the recommendations that we make for state policy is to identify, we call it screen and intervene.
02:12So the right evidence-based screeners that you get early can flag the children that may have reading issues like dyslexia or others, because then you know very quickly which tools to use to help them get back on track.
02:25We have so much now that we know, your wife I'm sure knows this very, very well, so many tools that are available if we're screening correctly and using the right.
02:31We have a sense of how many school districts or how many states around the nation have mandatory screening for reading issues in pre-K, K, or one?
02:41I could get back to your staff on that.
02:43I know we've got about 40 states who have some science of reading law of various forms.
02:49But that's different from screening to see if somebody's at risk.
02:52Because really, whatever we have on the whiteboard doesn't matter unless you're detecting the children.
02:57I think we'd all agree, what is the old axiom?
02:59You learn to read by grade three, and after that you read to learn.
03:03Most kids are only determined to have a problem reading by grade three.
03:07Yes, sir.
03:07So we've lost that opportunity.
03:09Absolutely.
03:09Mr. Barrera, I'm very impressed with the stats coming out of San Diego that you lead.
03:16Do you all universally screen for dyslexia or other reading disorders, and if so, at what age?
03:22Yes.
03:22In fact, California has a universal screening policy now that requires all dyslexia.
03:27It was great.
03:28Do universal screening.
03:29I think it's TKK.
03:32So it starts at the youngest grades.
03:34I think it goes to second grade, and we've got an established group of universal screening providers that also do formative assessment and analysis around evidence-based literacy practices.
03:50And then within the school system, do you all have a program specifically, a curriculum specifically for the dyslexic student?
04:02Or are they mainstreamed with the others, kind of the same sort of curriculum everybody else is?
04:06Well, I think there's curriculum, Senator, as you know, but then there's also practice.
04:11And so if we have the tools, the screening tools in place, which we do, that allows classroom teachers.
04:20And if classroom teachers have access to the data and ability to do that analysis, particularly around formative assessments, that allows teachers to target strategies to...
04:32Now, let me ask you, though.
04:33I think either Ms. Wicks or Ms. Gentles, or one of you, maybe any one of you, talked about the need for teachers to have ongoing education as regards both the prospective teacher, the actual teacher, on and on.
04:47And teaching a dyslexic is different than teaching a non-dyslexic, if you will.
04:52Yeah.
04:53Again, what we would point to is the most important professional development strategy for teachers.
05:01You know, there's what happens in a school of education.
05:03There's sort of pull-out PDs where, you know, teachers leave their classroom and go to some...
05:08It's having an experienced literacy resource teacher who can be there side by side with a classroom teacher
05:15and identify this particular student.
05:17And I find that the literacy teacher, unless she is taught specifically about dyslexia...
05:22Yeah.
05:22...because oftentimes dyslexia is not, I think, given the sufficient emphasis...
05:27Put it this way.
05:28We've got 20% of the population that is dyslexia.
05:30Yes.
05:31We've got national reading scores that have not improved for decades.
05:3440% of kids of color are reading below basic by what?
05:38Grade 4?
05:39We are failing.
05:40Now, something's wrong.
05:41So in my mind, it makes sense that we have a bunch of kids poorly diagnosed and or intervened upon
05:46with dyslexia anchoring that so that whatever we do for the others, we are anchored by kids
05:52failing to reach their potential because the intervention is not correct.
05:57Now, so I say that.
05:58I'm not fussing at anybody.
05:59I'm just kind of a cry of the heart to do something.
06:02In your school system, and I can imagine your demographic because I'm a little bit familiar
06:08with your neighborhood, what percent of the kids are reading, do you have that same sort
06:13of dismal 40%?
06:14I'm not blaming you.
06:15I'm asking that 40% reading below basic by a grade 3.
06:20It depends, you know, obviously on the part of the district.
06:25Obviously, it depends where students are when they come into the system.
06:29So if we have students that are already three years behind by the time they enter kindergarten
06:34or TK, then it takes longer to catch those students up.
06:38What we are, so if you look at the data that we're anticipating for this recently concluded
06:47year, the 24-25 year, we're expecting record growth on our summative assessments, particularly
06:56driven by Latino students, students who are socioeconomic.
06:59Record growth in terms of student population?
07:01Or in terms of growth of your score rates?
07:04No, sorry, growth of literacy achievement scores for those particular students.
07:10And I also want to just put something out there because I came in late and I have incredible
07:15respect for Senator Cain, worked very well with him.
07:17But I think I heard him wondering whether or not charter schools cherry pick or others
07:22cherry pick.
07:23My wife is the CEO of public charter schools for children with dyslexia.
07:28She gets referrals from private parochial and public schools for children who cannot read.
07:35You're concentrating people.
07:37And when you give them a word intensive test, you're actually focusing upon their weakness,
07:41not upon their strength.
07:43And so there can be a converse thing.
07:45I'm sure you're in agreement, Mr. Barnett, that you can actually, if you do, as my wife
07:49does, specifically reach out to a group which is more academically challenged.
07:54Everybody else is referring because they don't want these kids pulling down their median score.
08:01So they refer to my wife and they do a great job.
08:05Their scores rise.
08:07But you've got something which is concentrated upon addressing a weakness.
08:11And that weakness is particularly for a test such as schools are graded by.
08:14I'm making a pitch here, and as chair of the committee, you can imagine I'm going to try
08:19and do something about it, that a better way to evaluate children would be against themselves
08:25year over year as opposed to a mean of a school against every other school.
08:31And that's kind of the mirror image of what, Mr. Barnett, the criticism charters get.
08:36Oh, you're cherry picking.
08:38So your scores are better.
08:39No, you can have a score which concentrates those who have the greatest need.
08:43You're cherry picking, but you're cherry picking for a sense of mission, not in order to gain
08:48your score.
08:50But I'm a big believer in charters, and I thank you for them.
08:53I thank you all for being here.
08:54Thank you all for caring about education.
08:56Thank you all for traveling to D.C.
08:57With that, do I have a – for any senator wishing to ask additional questions, questions
09:08for the record will be due 5 p.m. Wednesday, August 6th.
09:11Thank you again for the witnesses for being here.
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