00:00I now call up H.R. 1663, the Veterans Scam and Fraud Evasion Act of 2025.
00:08The clerk shall report.
00:10H.R. 1663, to amend title...
00:12The text was circulated in advance and pursuant to committee rules without objection.
00:16The first reading is dispensed with and the bill is now open for amendment at any point.
00:20I now recognize Representative Kiggins for the purpose of offering an amendment to the nature of a substitute.
00:27Mr. Chair, I have an amendment in the nature of a substitute at the desk.
00:30The clerk shall report the amendment in the nature of a substitute.
00:33Amendment in the nature of a substitute.
00:34I ask unanimous consent that further reading of the amendment as nature of a substitute is dispensed with
00:38and I ask that it be considered base text for the purpose of this markup and without objection so ordered.
00:44I now recognize Representative Kiggins for five minutes to speak in support of the amendment in the nature of a substitute.
00:50Mr. Chair, my amendment in the nature of a substitute would make technical changes to update the language in H.R. 1663
00:56introduced by my friend and colleague, Representative Ken Calvert.
00:59This amendment would consider the feedback we received from the VA to ensure that if this bill becomes law,
01:05the fraud website and support hotline would work the way we want it to.
01:08My amendment includes the name of the website, which is vsafe.gov.
01:13Another technical change provided by the VA was to include the name of the vsafe fraud hotline in the legislation.
01:18I also want to use this opportunity to share the number of the hotline if this may be helpful for any veterans watching.
01:24The number is 833-388-7233.
01:31833-388-7233.
01:34I worked with the VA to ensure that this amendment would utilize the existing resources to guarantee there is no hiccup
01:40and veterans are getting the most up-to-date information when they need it.
01:44This amendment also includes language that would ensure that we are being responsible with taxpayer dollars
01:49by only introducing programs that Congress can pay for.
01:52This amendment would support the intent of Representative Calvert's legislation.
01:56The VA must provide a central location where veterans and their families can seek guidance
02:00and notifications to protect themselves against deceitful tactics.
02:05The phone number and hotline would offer two avenues for veterans to report these attempts when they happen
02:09and also to gather information to protect themselves.
02:12This office is so crucial to ensure that our veterans are protected against sophisticated scam artists and fraudsters.
02:19This effort at the VA would help families stay vigilant when veteran benefits are at the risk of being scammed.
02:24I urge my colleagues to support my amendment in the nature of a substitute, and I yield back.
02:28The gentleman yields back. I now recognize myself in support of the amendment.
02:32I strongly support the amendment in the nature of a substitute offered by Representative Kiggins.
02:36The V-SAFE bill is a good, limited-government solution to address the confusing bureaucracy
02:41that has plagued VA's fraud prevention efforts.
02:45V-SAFE would designate a single expert to connect veterans with pre-existing fraud provision programs
02:54across the federal government with VSOs and in the private sector.
02:59It would not create a huge bureaucracy to replicate these efforts.
03:07With that, so many agencies already have.
03:10It would simply help veterans find the right place to learn more about fraud prevention
03:16and find the right office to help them where they're in trouble.
03:22Veterans deserve streamlined, up-to-date information when they reach out to VA about identifying theft,
03:29benefits, fraud, and other serious scams.
03:32This amendment clarifies V-SAFE is designated central point for reporting veterans-specific fraud
03:40and will improve outcomes for veterans.
03:43I'm pleased to support Representative Kiggins' amendment in the nature of a substitute,
03:47and I urge my colleagues to vote yes.
03:49Do any other members wish to have comment on the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 1663?
03:54Are there any amendments to the amendment under the nature of a substitute to H.R. 1663?
04:04I now recognize Representative Ramirez for the purpose of offering an amendment to the amendment
04:10in the nature of a substitute for H.R. 1663.
04:14Thank you, Chairman.
04:17My amendment...
04:18You have an amendment at the desk?
04:19Oh, yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I'm getting ahead of myself.
04:22Yes, I have an amendment at the desk.
04:23The clerk will report.
04:24Ramirez's amendment number one.
04:25I ask unanimous consent to further reading of the amendment to dispense with it,
04:28and without objection so ordered, I now recognize Representative Ramirez.
04:31Thank you, Chairman.
04:32As we all know, scam artists seem to be multiplying,
04:37and so many of us know someone or have been victims of identity theft.
04:43My amendment would require the veteran scam and fraud evasion officer
04:47to develop an issue targeted training-specific to the most common scams
04:52and fraudulent activities facing our veterans and their families today.
04:56My amendment is not only appropriate, it's also urgently needed.
05:00The evidence is clear.
05:01You probably have seen those text messages that come up.
05:03You've probably seen those emails that are attempting to steal our veterans' data
05:09or our own families' data.
05:11According to the Federal Trade Commission in 2024,
05:14veterans reported some of the highest numbers of fraud complaints
05:18and the greatest total losses in 2024.
05:21As a matter of fact, you know how much that was?
05:23Veterans also continually face higher individual losses than the general population.
05:31Their median losses are around $700, which is actually over $200 higher
05:36than the non-veteran individual reporting to the Federal Trade Commission.
05:40Both the FTC and the VA, through the V-SAFE program established under President Biden,
05:46have narrowed in on several of the most common scams and fraudulent activities
05:50targeting veterans and their families, which actually include imposter scams,
05:55which account for nearly 40% of the military and veteran communities' fraud losses.
06:00These scams are those that seek to impersonate others,
06:03whether it be that they say that they're government officials, technology support,
06:07or even scamming them saying that they're close family members or love interests
06:13to collect money or gain access to veterans' personal systems.
06:16The other is this multi-level marketing scheme and other business opportunities
06:21that they get emails or text messages about,
06:24also regularly targeting veterans specifically, service members,
06:29and their families under the guise of patriotism, flexible hours,
06:33or even telling them that this will gain them financial independence.
06:37However, many of these opportunities ultimately result in little to no profit,
06:42and in more instances than that, it ends up being significant debt.
06:47Veterans are specifically targeted to join MLMs because their VA benefits can be a source of capital
06:52and their network of veteran peers a source of referrals for them.
06:56And look, it is wrong for veterans to be targeted for their capital networks
07:00when less than 1% of MLM participants ever make a profit from those opportunities.
07:06Our veteran service organization partners are heavily involved in this area,
07:11raising awareness to fraudulent activity relating to veteran benefits like pension poaching,
07:17disability benefits, preparation scams, and the DBQ fraud.
07:22Implementation of this amendment would require the veteran scam and fraud evasion officer
07:28to develop trainings and awareness campaigns directed on these top scams
07:34and to help provide veterans and their families with clear, actionable guidance to protect their benefits.
07:41Part of delivering on our promise to veterans is ensuring that they're protected from these bad actors,
07:46seeking to exploit them from their benefits that they have so hard work to earn.
07:52I urge all of my colleagues to join me in supporting this amendment,
07:55and with that, Chairman, I yield back.
07:57The gentlelady yields back.
07:59I now recognize myself in opposition to the amendment.
08:01I stand in opposition to this amendment because it would restrict the Secretary's ability
08:05to determine what V-safe officers' responsibilities would be.
08:11The decision should be left up to the VA Secretary, not Congress, to protect veterans' needs.
08:16As scammers evolve and become more severe,
08:21the Secretary will need the ability to adapt without being restricted
08:25by the political climate at the time.
08:28For these reasons, I oppose this amendment, and I urge, encourage all of my colleagues to do the same.
08:35Does any other member wish to comment on the amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute?
08:40Thank you, member.
08:41Yes, Mr. Chairman.
08:42The MLM, multi-level marketing schemes, are a scourge on our military service members
08:52and the veterans that are known to be beneficiaries of disability pensions.
09:01And it is unconscionable, in my mind, that we do not arm these veterans with the information about what these scams do,
09:14especially we know statistically.
09:18Ms. Ramirez, if you could ask my question, you said 1% succeed at these offers,
09:26and they're marketed as, I've seen these marketing come through, you know, work at your own schedule, set your own hours.
09:36These are all the sort of techniques to draw veterans in.
09:40I yield to you to respond.
09:43Yeah, and thank you, ranking member.
09:46I mean, you heard me tell you at the beginning, $419 million,
09:50that is the greatest total loss that veterans have received in scams,
09:56and in 2024, we reached that level.
09:59They are the ones scammed at the highest level in our country.
10:03And what this amendment does, Chairman, what it specifically does,
10:08it says Congress understands what our veterans are going through.
10:11We want to ensure that we're protecting them from all these scams,
10:15and certainly from people who are lying to them about what money they're going to make.
10:19And all it does, it requires a veteran scam and fraud evasion officer
10:23to develop trainings, awareness campaigns,
10:28so that their families know what they're being targeted for.
10:31That can't be political.
10:32That's about providing awareness and training for every single veteran,
10:37regardless if they have an R, a D, an I, a I don't care about politics.
10:42So I think it's really discouraging when I hear people say
10:46that trying to protect our veterans from being victims of fraud is a political thing.
10:53And in a time where Congress needs to be better at specifically guiding those protections
10:58for our veterans, this amendment will help do that.
11:03I'm reclaiming my time.
11:05We do not, this amendment does not unduly burden the Secretary or restrict the Secretary.
11:11We point out specific scams that, you know, the Secretary give guidance about
11:20through the Be Safe officer.
11:24And the statistics are pretty damning.
11:29The higher rate, the significantly higher rate of victimization of veterans
11:35who are the targets of these multi-level marketing schemes.
11:41The fact that the veterans have their own community
11:45and the proliferation of the victimization
11:52when veterans who are ensnared into these schemes
11:55start to target their fellow veterans to be a part of this.
11:58I can't believe that this committee would not take an interest
12:04in attempting to educate all of our veterans,
12:10especially those veterans that are in disability pensions,
12:14about the financial harm and danger that these multi-level marketing schemes pose.
12:20And Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
12:22The gentleman yields back.
12:23Any other comments?
12:26Questions?
12:27Seeing none.
12:28The question occurs on agreeing to the amendment to the amendment
12:30in nature of substitute to H.R. 1663.
12:33All in favor say aye.
12:35Aye.
12:36All those opposed no.
12:37No.
12:38And the no's have it in the amendment in nature of substitute.
12:40Mr. Chair, I request a recorded vote.
12:42A recorded vote having been requested in accordance with the Rules Committee
12:46for further proceedings on this matter will be postponed.
12:49Are there any further amendments to the amendment
12:51in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 1663?
12:56Hearing none.
12:57Are there any further amendments to the amendment in nature of substitute for H.R. 1663?
13:17Hearing none.
13:18The question now...
13:19No.
13:19Where am I going to?
13:23Move to the next bill.
13:24Okay.
13:26Because there is an amendment vote pending, we will move to the next bill.
13:30Move to the next bill.
13:31Move to the next bill.
13:32Move to the next bill.
13:33Move to the next bill.
13:34Move to the next bill.
13:35Move to the next bill.
13:36Move to the next bill.
13:37Move to the next bill.
13:38Move to the next bill.
13:39Move to the next bill.
13:40Move to the next bill.
13:41Move to the next bill.
13:42Move to the next bill.
13:43Move to the next bill.
13:44Move to the next bill.
13:45Move to the next bill.
13:46Move to the next bill.
13:47Move to the next bill.
13:48Move to the next bill.
13:49Move to the next bill.
13:50Move to the next bill.
13:51Move to the next bill.
13:52Move to the next bill.
13:53Move to the next bill.
13:54Move to the next bill.
13:55Move to the next bill.
13:56Move to the next bill.
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