- 6 months ago
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01:00You were a title designer back in the early 20s. Did you realise, what was your ambition to become a man whose name would be associated with the macabre in films?
01:40The titles were, they were words with a commentary in the form of an illustration. They were rather naive and sort of oversimplified, almost juvenile in a way, because if you had a title which said that George was leading a very fast life by this time, the illustration would be a candle and a flame at each end.
02:04It was your job, in fact, to add impact to the words with some kind of lettering style.
02:11That's right.
02:41And when he came back, finished, he would edit it with an assistant. And that's how I was able to get acquainted with the writers and learn script writing, which I absorbed quite an amount of that.
02:54And then having been a draftsman originally, when the time came to do art direction, I used to do that as well. In fact, on the same picture for several years, I used to write the script and do the production design as well.
03:09Now, according to legend, you became a director because the director who you've been assisting would no longer work with you. Is that a fair way of describing the situation?
03:19I don't think he'd no longer work with me. He didn't want me to work with him.
03:24Why not?
03:24That was the truth. I don't know. Politics.
03:27Can I suggest to you, you were art director, and as such, you obviously were thinking all the time of the shots that you expected to see taken on the set. Was it that in some ways you were breaking into his territory?
03:40Oh, I not only broke into his territory, I gave him this shot somewhere they should be taken. I built the set in such a way you couldn't take it from any other angle.
03:50I remember once in the picture woman to woman, we had a big park lane house, and it was the entrance hall and the reception.
03:58Now, when they came into the set, there was this grand staircase going up with a balcony on each side, and back to us was the front door.
04:11But at the top of the set, there was no set at all. No wall, nothing.
04:16So I said, well, how can we shoot this? You know, they were expecting to do the conventional shot from the door looking up the stairs and the balcony and the hostess at the top and the people coming up.
04:27And I said, no, you take the shot from the top of the stairs looking down.
04:33They said, why that? I said, because the hostess is at the top of the stairs.
04:38And everybody coming in will be seen coming through the doors up the stairs and be greeted in the foreground.
04:45That way, I said, you will have the set in the background for the whole sequence.
04:50And was that sort of suggestion?
04:51I was 23 then.
04:53And in fact, with no formal art training behind you, this was something?
04:57I'd be, oh yes, I'd been to art school, University of London.
05:01I see.
05:02But, you know, just the smattering of art, just as I had a smattering of education in engineering,
05:10and that's where I learned draftsmanship and so forth.
05:13But I was, in a way, a small martinet.
05:17I said, this is where the shot is to be done.
05:20And the director was helpless.
05:23By that time, you obviously had your mind very firmly set upon becoming a director.
05:27Do you expect...
05:27Not at all.
05:28No.
05:29Never occurred to me.
05:31Until the director said he didn't want me anymore, I was in a limbo for the moment,
05:36until the producer said, how would you like to direct a picture?
05:39I said, never occurred to me.
05:41I was very happy doing what I was doing.
05:43Now, skipping the next two pictures, you described them as assignment pictures.
05:51The first picture, which is definitely in the Hitchcock style, was The Lodger, wasn't it?
05:58Yes, that's right.
05:58That picture showed a strong German influence, which I had acquired by working at the UPA Studios Berlin in their heyday.
06:09That was one of the finest studios existing in Europe at the time.
06:15Tremendous technical achievements they were doing.
06:21And they made Siegfried, you know, the Nibelungen ring.
06:24And Jannings, they were working on Jannings' Last Laugh when I was there.
06:30Was it chance that your first film, this first important film, was about murder most foul and in quantity?
06:39Or was that already the way you saw your career and your interest in films going?
06:44I was interested in the macabre, but I think that was an English thing, you know.
06:49So, English writers and literatures have always played a great interest in crime, much more than any other country, you know.
06:59One will always read when there was a cause célèbre at the Old Bailey.
07:04The seats would be filled by famous actors and writers and so forth.
07:09So, I think that grew out of one's natural interest.
07:15Incidentally, when I had finished the lodger and it was seen by the distributors' representatives,
07:25they thought it was so bad that it shouldn't be shown.
07:29This was because it was out of the present-day idiom of...
07:33Oh, it was, and I understand that the director that I had been working for was looking at the rushes and reported to the producer.
07:44He said, I don't know what the devil he's shooting. I don't understand a word of it.
07:47And finally came an afternoon when the big shot was coming down to verify his menial verdict on the picture.
08:00And I remember my wife and I walked out of the studio and went for two hours.
08:07We found ourselves at Tower Bridge. I said, well, it must be over by now. Let's go back.
08:11Hoping, of course, this is the most suspenseful moment I've ever had, to go back and find smiling faces.
08:19It's all right. He likes it. But not a bit of it. He confirmed it.
08:23And they put the film on the shelf.
08:26Stayed on the shelf for about two or three months.
08:29They said, well, we have an investment in this.
08:32We'll take a look at it again. And they finally agreed to show it.
08:35And then it was acquired as the greatest British film made to that period.
08:39So there you see the fine line between failure and success.
08:45Was it in your mind during those two months on the shelf that this might be the beginning and end of a director's career?
08:51No, I didn't think of that. That never occurred to me at all. Never occurred to me.
08:56I'd like to assume that I made this choice of subject just a little because it is so much The Roots.
09:00One, I've always thought of you as a man who, besides being a film director with his own absolutely individual style,
09:09is being a man with a very shrewd commercial flair.
09:11Did the murderous aspects of that film and subsequent ones have a commercial attraction for you as well?
09:19No, no. The commercial attraction to me comes out of the fact that I'm a believer that film belongs to the masses.
09:30It was the newest art of the 20th century.
09:33And there's always that feeling that commercial or box office are dirty words.
09:43And it's nothing to do with it.
09:44It's to do with telling a story with the widest possible appeal,
09:50but still applying all the artistic techniques and manner of storytelling
09:56without degrading yourself at all to what is vulgarly called the commercial.
10:02I think it's axiomatic that if you take into consideration the elements that interest wide audiences,
10:13then you can tell your story as imaginatively as you like, as long as you make it clear to them.
10:20Wouldn't you have dearly liked your Jack the Ripper of the lodger
10:26to be proven at the end of the film Jack the Ripper?
10:29Of course.
10:30But you see, that's the penalty of having a film star in a story of that kind.
10:37He inevitably has to be cleared.
10:41Now, I had the same experience with Cary Grant in a film called Suspicion.
10:47It's a big disadvantage.
10:48On the other hand, if you have a chase story,
10:53it's an advantage to have a named star in that
10:57because the audience anxieties are increased
11:00because they know him well.
11:02He's a relative.
11:03He's a relative in trouble.
11:06But in your mind, Oliver Bonobello definitely was the fiendish snapper.
11:12Well, he had to behave like one,
11:14and so the excuse was given
11:16that he was a nervous,
11:19almost schizophrenic.
11:22He was a man
11:23who was a brother of one of the victims
11:27and really had gone off his head.
11:30But these are rather clumsy sort of excuses.
11:32Strictly speaking,
11:34you should not have a matinee idol in a role of that kind.
11:41There was a rather famous sequence in that film
11:45where you used a sheet of glass for a floor,
11:47wouldn't you like to tell us about that?
11:48Well, you see,
11:50that's the visual interpretation
11:53of the missing sound of those days.
11:57In other words,
11:57a man is pacing a room up and down today.
12:00We'd do it by sound
12:03and you would see the chandelier shaking.
12:06Well,
12:07the substitute for that
12:09was a visual impression
12:11of the room above
12:12and you saw the soles of his shoes
12:15and the full length of his body
12:17and the ceiling of the room beyond
12:20as he paced up and down.
12:22I did it by having a floor made of one-inch thick glass.
12:26And perching the fellow on top.
12:28Your next film,
12:30The Ring,
12:31in fact,
12:32was not any furtherance
12:35of the crime theme,
12:36was it?
12:36It was a straight forward.
12:37It was a boxing story,
12:39you know,
12:40from gypsy
12:41to middleweight champion
12:44or heavyweight champion
12:45or whatever it is.
12:47Why the fascination with boxing?
12:48Was it the element of violence
12:50in that that attracted you
12:51or was it something?
12:51No, it wasn't.
12:52I think it was the topicality of it at the time.
12:56I'd been to the Albert Hall
12:59and seen some of these fights
13:01and I was always interested in fairgrounds
13:06so we had the fairgrounds
13:08and then we had the rise.
13:10And I remember
13:11I first started
13:13the 24 sheets
13:15showing the name of the box
13:16and then all the seasons
13:17passing through
13:19the snow
13:20and the rain
13:21and the spring
13:22and the summer
13:22and the name
13:23got higher and higher
13:25which was practiced
13:26many years later
13:27by many people.
13:29They even did it
13:30in that
13:31Kramer film
13:33The Champion
13:35many, many years after.
13:37This process
13:38of condensing
13:39a great deal
13:40of information
13:41into a short montage
13:42is something
13:43that you have used
13:44extensively, isn't it?
13:46Well, it's information
13:48that must be given
13:49to an audience
13:50that doesn't warrant
13:51length
13:53or dramatic presentation.
13:58Where did you get
14:00your early approaches
14:02to the cinema from?
14:03Did you go to the cinema
14:04a lot in those days?
14:05Mm-hmm.
14:06In fact,
14:07about the age of 15
14:09I didn't even read
14:10fan magazines
14:11I only read trade papers
14:13especially American ones.
14:15So there were
14:16the Russian influences
14:17the German influences
14:18and the Americans
14:19all
14:19and of course
14:19what British influence
14:21wasn't that at all.
14:22I find it rather extraordinary
14:23that
14:24the Hitchcock purists
14:26say that
14:27the nine or ten years
14:29before the war
14:29were very important ones
14:30of yours in England
14:31and they say
14:31because it was in England
14:32and yet the publicity
14:34you received
14:34in the newspapers
14:35those days
14:35said that you directed
14:36things in the American style.
14:38Well, you have to remember
14:39that I was American trained.
14:42When I first went
14:43into the studio
14:44at Islington
14:45this was a studio
14:46called Famous Players Lasky
14:49British Producers
14:51and when you enter
14:52the doors of that studio
14:53you could have been
14:54in Hollywood.
14:56Everyone was
14:56an American
14:57the writers
14:58were American
14:59the directors
15:00were American
15:00in fact
15:02I believe
15:03the first film
15:05I had written
15:07script for
15:08and did the art direction
15:10when it was reviewed
15:11by the Daily Express
15:13the headline said
15:14best American film
15:16made in England
15:17well that was the influence
15:19of the oversized sets
15:21you know
15:21in those days
15:22of course
15:22everything was exaggerated
15:24all the rooms
15:26were like cathedrals
15:27and
15:28it belonged to the era
15:31just as much as
15:33the new cinemas
15:34growing up
15:35at that time
15:36was a haven
15:37was a palace
15:38away from the
15:39sordid little homes
15:40that people lived in
15:41and they walked
15:42into the lobby
15:43of the big
15:44motion picture palace
15:46with a carpet
15:47six inches thick
15:48you know
15:49and the whole
15:50atmosphere of film
15:52in the 20s
15:53was
15:55you had to
15:56reproduce that glamour
15:58on the screen
15:58very much so
16:00yes
16:00well now you've had
16:02a blackmail
16:02and a profound
16:04shock for almost
16:05everybody in the industry
16:06I would have thought
16:07including you
16:07the advent of sound
16:09was it a shock
16:10for you
16:10no it didn't bother
16:11me at all
16:12I just
16:12just took to it
16:15like a
16:16I won't say
16:18a duck
16:18takes to the water
16:20and as it was
16:20sound was say
16:21as a duck
16:22takes to a quack
16:23nothing
16:26it didn't bother
16:27me at all
16:27but as a director
16:28who'd been working
16:30purely on
16:31mute films
16:32it must have been
16:32a sudden
16:33extraordinary widening
16:34in technique
16:35demanded of you
16:36sound of course
16:37there was sound
16:39to be played around
16:40with
16:41there was a
16:41counterpoint of sound
16:43one had to realise
16:45there was a new
16:46element
16:46and
16:47they shouldn't
16:49make the same
16:49statement
16:50I've always believed
16:52but unfortunately
16:53you can never get it
16:54written this way
16:55that the voice
16:56should never make
16:57the same statement
16:58that the face
16:59is making
17:00in other words
17:01if a girl says
17:01I'm happy
17:02and she's got
17:03a happy expression
17:05you're saying
17:05the same thing
17:06twice
17:06once with sound
17:08and once with
17:08the visual
17:09she'll be
17:10counterpointed
17:11you know
17:12a girl can be
17:13crying
17:14and in an argument
17:15she can say
17:16well don't make
17:16me laugh
17:17with sarcasm
17:19now that's the
17:20true counterpoint
17:21of the words
17:22against the visual
17:25but of course
17:26that isn't
17:27practised at all
17:28never even
17:28given a thought
17:29but it's the
17:32essential thing
17:33I realised
17:34that at the
17:35beginning
17:35well once again
17:37from reading
17:37about your quotes
17:38I think your
17:39actors must have
17:39learnt your ideas
17:41about this
17:41rather painfully
17:42I suppose the
17:44shortest and most
17:45pertinent quote
17:45of yours
17:46is actors are
17:47cattle
17:47well I've been
17:50accused of saying
17:51that and I
17:52remember when I
17:53was given the
17:53milestone award
17:55by the producers
17:56of Hollywood
17:57a year ago
17:58I did say
17:59in my speech
18:00that I had
18:00been accused
18:01of saying
18:02that actors
18:02are cattle
18:03I said this
18:03was absolutely
18:05untrue
18:05what I possibly
18:07said was
18:08that actors
18:09should be treated
18:10like cats
18:11why are you
18:15so demanding
18:16and such a
18:16martinet of actors
18:17once again
18:18I've read quotes
18:18of your saying
18:19that when
18:20Kim Novak
18:21in a film
18:22came on the set
18:22you wanted
18:23nothing on her face
18:24except a single
18:25emotion at a time
18:27well my idea
18:30of a good actor
18:30is somebody
18:31who can do
18:32nothing well
18:33I think that
18:34there's a misquote
18:35there
18:36and she wasn't
18:37able to do
18:37nothing well
18:38the presence
18:41of an individual
18:42in the form
18:43of an actor
18:43on the stage
18:45or on the screen
18:45if he strolls
18:47on and lights
18:48a cigarette
18:49and he looks
18:51interesting
18:51when he's doing
18:53it
18:53that to me
18:55is an actor
18:56with control
18:57nonchalance
18:58saving himself
19:01for his dramatic
19:02moments
19:02in other words
19:04he has an idea
19:05he doesn't
19:07explode all his
19:08gunpowder
19:09and ham it up
19:10or so forth
19:11but the quote
19:14about them
19:14being cattle
19:15I think
19:16relates to
19:17their attitudes
19:18on the set
19:22you know
19:23that they know
19:23it all
19:24in a way
19:25they're children
19:26I regard them
19:27as all
19:27as children
19:29they're not very
19:30bright
19:30some of them
19:31and you
19:33pull the strings
19:34no I don't
19:36pull the strings
19:36I say
19:37well here is
19:37the scene
19:38you know
19:38do it
19:40remember
19:40doing a picture
19:41with Doris Day
19:42and she got
19:43into tears
19:44and one lunchtime
19:46wanted to see me
19:47with her agent
19:48and then she
19:49complained that
19:50she wasn't
19:50being directed
19:51well I don't
19:53direct
19:53I don't shout
19:54out on the set
19:55do this
19:56and do that
19:57I tell them
19:57quietly in the
19:58dressing room
19:59what the points
20:00are being made
20:01in this scene
20:03the character
20:04points
20:04and the
20:05dramatic points
20:06and that's it
20:07and it's up to them
20:08but
20:10supposing you're not
20:11getting what you want
20:12well then I take them
20:14aside and whisper
20:15something
20:16see I don't believe
20:17in behaving
20:18like a director
20:19yelling and screaming
20:21I have a phrase
20:22for that
20:23I call that
20:23all the drama
20:25on the set
20:25none on the screen
20:26did the availability
20:30of sound
20:30create any
20:31casting problems
20:32half way through
20:33blackmail
20:33well the main
20:35problem
20:36concerned
20:37the fact
20:37that I had
20:38a Czech
20:39film star
20:41playing the part
20:42of an English
20:43girl
20:44this of course
20:46was alright
20:47when blackmail
20:48was a silent film
20:50but the decision
20:51was made
20:52to change it
20:52into a talking film
20:54so there the problem
20:56cropped up
20:57how do we get around
20:58the problem
20:59of Miss Ondra
21:00speaking with a
21:01heavy foreign accent
21:03now in those days
21:05we couldn't substitute
21:06voices with the
21:07E's which we do
21:08today
21:09so I had a young
21:10actress
21:11Joan Barry
21:12sitting on the side
21:13with her own
21:15microphone
21:15while Miss Ondra
21:17on the set
21:18playing her scene
21:19just mouthed
21:20her words
21:21so the girl
21:22on the side
21:23had to follow
21:24her very closely
21:25and that was
21:26the most primitive
21:27and earliest form
21:28of what we call
21:29in our business
21:31of dubbing
21:32the voice on
21:33since you couldn't
21:35add sound effects
21:36and things afterwards
21:36the studio must
21:37on occasion
21:38have looked like
21:38an absolute nightmare
21:39you had to
21:40include sounds
21:41at the same time
21:42did you
21:42I had a scene
21:45in the following film
21:47after blackmail
21:48which was
21:48Juno and the
21:49Paycock
21:49with the Irish
21:50players
21:51and it was a
21:52close up
21:53of the son
21:54the guilty son
21:55who had betrayed
21:56his friend
21:57and the family
22:00had come into the room
22:03they bought a phonograph
22:04and they were
22:05playing a record
22:06if you're Irish
22:07come into the parlour
22:08and then there was
22:10a choir
22:10they stopped the records
22:12the dialogue indicates
22:14there's a funeral
22:14procession going by
22:16and singing
22:18these Catholic hymns
22:21well now this was
22:22only a close up
22:23of this fellow
22:24it was a creeping
22:25close up
22:25the camera went
22:26slowly in like that
22:27now they couldn't
22:29find a record
22:30if you're Irish
22:31come into the parlour
22:32so in one corner
22:33of this tiny studio
22:34we had an orchestra
22:36with no bass
22:37to get the tinny effect
22:38the prop man
22:40sang the song
22:41by holding his nose
22:43to get
22:44again the thin voice
22:46the rest of the characters
22:48played their dialogue
22:50then in another
22:52corner of the studio
22:53was a choir
22:54for singing
22:56in the procession
22:57and there was
22:59more room
23:00taken up
23:01by the effects
23:02and there was
23:02by the camera
23:03and the individual
23:04being photographed
23:05and you were the conductor
23:07right in the middle
23:07all over
23:08I was all over the place
23:09now moving on
23:11to 1930
23:13and murder
23:15which you've described
23:16as your first
23:17important whodunit
23:18and only
23:20whodunit
23:21ah
23:22I've never made
23:23a whodunit since
23:24very simple reason
23:26the whodunit
23:27contains no emotion
23:29the audience
23:30the audience
23:30are wondering
23:31they're not emoting
23:33they're not apprehensive
23:35for anyone
23:35only if you have
23:38a girl
23:41who is probably
23:43innocent of the crime
23:45and they're worried
23:47about her
23:48but actually
23:49the main concentration
23:51of their appreciation
23:54is
23:54whodunit
23:56who did it
23:57the butler
23:58or who else
23:59when the film
24:02is finished
24:02and the revelation
24:03comes
24:04well you get
24:05two or three minutes
24:07of saying
24:09ah
24:09I told you so
24:10or I thought so
24:12or fancy that
24:13I prefer to do
24:16the suspense film
24:17by giving
24:19all the information
24:20to the audience
24:21at the beginning
24:22of the picture
24:23or early on
24:24in the picture
24:25then they won't wonder
24:28they'll be apprehensive
24:30for the individual
24:31so that was why
24:33murder was your only
24:34of course
24:35the man who knew
24:35too much
24:36fell into the
24:37second category
24:38anxiety
24:40for the mother
24:42of the kidnapped child
24:43now you
24:45once again
24:46in this
24:47there was
24:47some typical
24:49Hitchcock
24:50situations
24:51in that you were
24:52worrying the audience
24:54on the hero's behalf
24:55with the hero
24:56in very familiar
24:57situations
24:58like the Salvation
24:59Army Hall
25:00is that part
25:00of your philosophy
25:01well
25:02the basic thing
25:04is
25:04in order to get
25:06an audience
25:06really
25:07going along
25:08I've always
25:10ever since
25:1139 Steps
25:12taken
25:13average man
25:14and put him
25:16in bizarre
25:16situations
25:17Cary Grant
25:18in North by
25:19North West
25:20Joel McRae
25:23in Foreign
25:24Correspondent
25:25so the audience
25:27identification
25:28is so much
25:29stronger
25:30that's why
25:31in the adventure
25:32story
25:32your film star
25:33is an advantage
25:34in that respect
25:35they worry
25:37about him
25:38and
25:39if he's
25:40lesser known
25:41I think
25:41the degree
25:42of anxiety
25:42is reduced
25:44if you walk
25:45along the street
25:46and you see
25:47a street
25:48accident
25:48the figure
25:51lying there
25:51you know
25:52excites your
25:53sympathy
25:53but you give
25:54a casual
25:54glance
25:55and go on
25:55if you took
25:56a second glance
25:57and you find
25:58it's your brother
25:59or you start
26:01running in circles
26:01immediately
26:02it's a different
26:03emotion
26:03or far
26:04deeper
26:05emotion
26:05when you
26:07went to
26:07America
26:08one of the
26:08things that
26:09you mourned
26:10that you'd
26:10had to leave
26:11behind in
26:11England
26:12particularly
26:12shown in
26:13the man
26:13too much
26:13that knew
26:14too much
26:15was an
26:15illogicality
26:16you had to
26:17become more
26:17logical later
26:18on
26:19didn't you
26:19you could
26:20take freedoms
26:21with the
26:22audience's
26:22consent
26:23in the man
26:23who knew
26:23too much
26:24that's true
26:26but the
26:28problem in
26:29America
26:29is that the
26:30audience
26:31whatever degree
26:32of education
26:33they have
26:34asked questions
26:37and they
26:38asked
26:39quite
26:41offbeat
26:42questions
26:42I have a
26:43phrase for it
26:44not that I
26:45want to
26:46deprecate the
26:46American audience
26:47or the world
26:48audience for that
26:49matter but the
26:50phrase I use is
26:51moronic logic
26:53and the English
26:55don't suffer from
26:56that complaint
26:56in some respects
26:58they do
26:59it comes under
27:01the heading of
27:02questions that
27:04are asked of
27:04their parents by
27:05children such
27:07as why does
27:08thunder turn
27:09the milk sour
27:10nobody knows
27:12what the answer
27:13is
27:13now the man
27:15who knew too
27:15much also
27:16included the
27:17Albert Hall
27:18sequence
27:18once again
27:19these very
27:22famous locations
27:23crop up
27:24in your films
27:26do you have a
27:27particular reason
27:28for wanting to
27:29use places
27:29like that
27:30oh I think
27:31yes I think
27:32they're topical
27:33the audience
27:33know about
27:34them
27:35but what is
27:37more important
27:38when you
27:38choose a
27:39location
27:40it must not
27:42be a background
27:43to me
27:43the goings-on
27:46in that location
27:47must be
27:48involved in
27:49the story
27:50for example
27:51orchestration
27:53is used
27:56choral voices
27:58are used
27:59emotionally
28:00because a child
28:01was being
28:01kidnapped
28:02so the
28:04emotion
28:04is worked
28:05through the
28:05choral group
28:07and the
28:08assassination
28:09which is
28:09about to
28:10take place
28:11and we
28:11all know
28:12it
28:12everyone
28:12knows
28:13it
28:13they even
28:15know that
28:15when the
28:15cymbals crash
28:16that's the
28:17time for the
28:18shot to go
28:19on
28:19now all the
28:20audience
28:20are given
28:21that information
28:22long ahead
28:24of the scene
28:25otherwise
28:26all the cuts
28:27to the music
28:28and to the man
28:29holding the cymbals
28:30would be
28:30meaningless
28:31but they
28:32become very
28:33potent when
28:33the audience
28:34have all
28:34this information
28:35that is
28:36the true
28:37um
28:38uh
28:40metier
28:41of suspense
28:42your next film
28:44I imagine
28:451935
28:46the 39 steps
28:47is one of
28:48your most
28:49fun
28:49yes
28:49well there
28:50you get
28:50there you get
28:51average man
28:52caught up
28:54in
28:55in bizarre
28:56situation
28:57in a way
28:58that he
28:58cannot extricate
28:59himself from
29:00it
29:00now
29:00here we
29:03come up
29:03against
29:04the
29:04uh
29:05shall we
29:06say
29:06a structural
29:07problem
29:07story wise
29:09when a man
29:10is chasing
29:11a spy
29:11and the spies
29:12are chasing
29:13him
29:14inevitable
29:15moronic
29:17logic
29:18is applied
29:18they say
29:19why doesn't
29:21he go to
29:21the police
29:22well in
29:24order to
29:24prevent that
29:25you get him
29:26involved or
29:26accused of
29:27a murder
29:28at the same
29:29time
29:29so you
29:31answer those
29:31morons
29:32immediately
29:34by putting
29:35him in
29:35a position
29:36that he
29:36can't go
29:36to the
29:37police
29:37same
29:38applied to
29:38Cary Grant
29:39in um
29:40north by
29:41northwest
29:42he's found
29:44with a hand
29:44holding a knife
29:46in an assassination
29:48in the united
29:49nations
29:50and immediately
29:51all eyes are on
29:52him and he's
29:53on the run
29:53he drops a knife
29:54and runs
29:55now
29:56this happens
29:57because he's
29:58in friendly
29:58territory
29:59now if he's
30:01in unfriendly
30:02territory
30:02what we'll say
30:03behind the iron
30:04curtain
30:04behind enemy
30:05lines
30:06he can't go
30:07to the police
30:08so you're all
30:08that in any case
30:09so the
30:10background
30:11covers it
30:11now of course
30:12in torn curtain
30:13I've done both
30:15I've had my
30:17cake and I
30:17eat it as well
30:18what stage in
30:23the thirties
30:24did it become
30:25clear to you
30:26that your
30:26filmmaking
30:27activities were
30:28going to be
30:28towards the
30:29macabre
30:30I think it
30:31started with
30:31the man you
30:32knew too much
30:33and then
30:33developed right
30:34into 39
30:35steps
30:36and you
30:37realised then
30:37that that was
30:38going to be
30:39your metier
30:39can you explain
30:42your own
30:42personal
30:43fascination
30:44for the
30:44macabre
30:45I think
30:48really
30:49it's
30:50it's
30:51gives one
30:52an opportunity
30:53to express
30:55the violent
30:56in understatement
30:57it's a
30:59melodrama
31:00you see
31:01that you
31:01play against
31:02that's what
31:03I'm interested
31:03in
31:04but some
31:04would say
31:05sorry old
31:06chap
31:07but I have
31:07to kill
31:08you
31:08I hope
31:10it doesn't
31:10hurt
31:11you see
31:13but when
31:14the killings
31:14become rather
31:15bloody
31:15as they
31:16sometimes
31:16do
31:17that's
31:17almost
31:18overstatement
31:18isn't it
31:19no
31:20it's
31:20I would
31:21say
31:21the killings
31:22become
31:22more
31:23realistic
31:23and less
31:25from the
31:27movies
31:27changing
31:29subject
31:30abruptly
31:30can I
31:30ask you
31:31where
31:31Robert
31:31Donut
31:32in 39
31:32Steps
31:33was
31:33handcuffed
31:33to a
31:34girl
31:34there was
31:34a
31:34bedroom
31:34scene
31:35between
31:35them
31:35if you
31:35remember
31:36was
31:37this
31:37the
31:37beginnings
31:38of
31:38sex
31:39interest
31:40cropping up
31:40in your
31:41films
31:41consciously
31:41or
31:42not
31:43oh I
31:43think
31:43that
31:43the
31:43handcuff
31:44and
31:44tying
31:45up
31:45is
31:46a
31:46highly
31:47sex
31:47symbol
31:48if you
31:49notice
31:49always
31:50newspapers
31:50photographed
31:52criminals
31:53being taken
31:53away
31:54in handcuffs
31:54we used to
31:56read
31:56years ago
31:57undergraduates
31:58at the college
31:59tying themselves
32:00to bedposts
32:01and all that
32:02sort of
32:02I think
32:03it's highly
32:03sexual
32:04the handcuff
32:05cinema
32:07roll
32:07five
32:08Alfred
32:08Hitchcock
32:09you talk
32:16about
32:16more
32:17on
32:17logic
32:17the
32:17audience
32:18do
32:18have
32:18a
32:18right
32:18of
32:19course
32:19to
32:19question
32:20the
32:20motivations
32:21of your
32:22films
32:22don't
32:22they
32:23I think
32:23they have
32:24every
32:24right
32:24even
32:25to
32:25the
32:25degree
32:26where
32:26they
32:26have
32:26a
32:26right
32:26to
32:27ask
32:27for
32:27their
32:27money
32:27back
32:28we
32:29wouldn't
32:29encourage
32:29them
32:29to
32:29do
32:30so
32:30you
32:32were
32:33saying
32:33that
32:33your
32:33hero
32:34in
32:34your
32:34new
32:35film
32:35torn
32:35curtain
32:36doesn't
32:37in fact
32:38have
32:38this
32:38problem
32:38with
32:38the
32:38police
32:39because
32:39he's
32:39against
32:39them
32:39in
32:39any
32:40case
32:40he's
32:41behind
32:42the
32:42iron
32:42curtain
32:43so
32:44he's
32:44in
32:45danger
32:45already
32:46by
32:47being
32:48how
32:48shall
32:49we
32:49say
32:49in
32:50an
32:50area
32:51where
32:51every
32:52hand
32:52could
32:53be
32:53turned
32:53against
32:54him
32:54but
32:55we
32:55also
32:56have
32:56the
32:56killing
32:57as
32:57well
32:57so
32:59we
32:59not
33:00only
33:00have
33:00him
33:01in
33:01enemy
33:01territory
33:02but
33:02we
33:02have
33:03him
33:03accused
33:04of
33:04a
33:04murder
33:04at
33:05the
33:05same
33:05time
33:05that's
33:06what
33:06I
33:06meant
33:07by
33:07having
33:07one's
33:07cake
33:08and
33:08eating
33:08it
33:08as
33:09well
33:09what
33:11do
33:11you
33:11remember
33:11about
33:121936
33:13and
33:13the
33:13secret
33:14agent
33:14I
33:16remember
33:16a lot
33:17about
33:17it
33:17that
33:17was
33:17Somerset
33:18Maugham's
33:19Ashenden
33:19the
33:21film
33:21didn't
33:21succeed
33:22although
33:23I
33:23had
33:23a lot
33:24of
33:24ideas
33:25in
33:25it
33:25I
33:26think
33:26its
33:26lack
33:27of
33:27success
33:29that
33:30the
33:30hero
33:31his
33:33objective
33:33was
33:34negative
33:34in
33:35other
33:35words
33:35he
33:36was
33:36sent
33:37to
33:38kill
33:38a
33:39man
33:39given
33:39a
33:40killer
33:40to
33:40do
33:40it
33:40it's
33:41true
33:41but
33:42his
33:43attitude
33:43was
33:44reluctant
33:45and
33:47therefore
33:47the
33:47audience
33:48had
33:48no
33:48rooting
33:49interest
33:49at
33:49all
33:50they
33:51were
33:52confused
33:52they
33:53couldn't
33:53say
33:54well
33:54don't
33:55do
33:55it
33:55you're
33:55right
33:56not
33:56to
33:56do
33:57it
33:57because
33:58usually
33:58the
33:58pattern
33:59is
33:59for
33:59the
33:59hero
34:00is
34:00to
34:01achieve
34:01something
34:02and the
34:02audience
34:02want him
34:03to
34:03achieve
34:03something
34:04I
34:05think
34:05that
34:05was
34:05the
34:06root
34:06problem
34:06in
34:06that
34:07story
34:07so
34:07this
34:08was
34:08a
34:08misjudgment
34:08on your
34:09part
34:09of
34:09psychology
34:10it's
34:11a
34:11thing
34:11that
34:11over
34:12the
34:12years
34:12you
34:12do
34:13learn
34:14from
34:14audiences
34:15I
34:16don't
34:16care
34:16whether
34:17it's
34:17English
34:17audiences
34:18American
34:18Japanese
34:19they're
34:20all
34:20the
34:21same
34:21they
34:22all
34:23love
34:23to
34:24enjoy
34:24fear
34:25they
34:26wallow
34:28in
34:28terror
34:30and they
34:32always get
34:32off
34:32giggling
34:33like off
34:34the
34:34switchback
34:34railway
34:35so you
34:36learn
34:37never to
34:38explode
34:39bombs
34:39but to
34:40save it
34:41at the last
34:41minute
34:42and
34:43relieve the
34:44audience in
34:45the end
34:46but give them
34:46all the
34:47apprehensions
34:48in
34:49sabotage
34:49sorry
34:50in
34:50sabotage
34:51in
34:51fact you
34:52did
34:52explode
34:52the
34:52bomb
34:53which
34:53was
34:53once again
34:53big
34:53big mistake
34:54big mistake
34:55because
34:55you've had
34:56this poor
34:57audience
34:57in agony
34:58for the
34:59safety
34:59of a
35:00small
35:00boy
35:00and even
35:02telling them
35:03that a
35:03bomb
35:03will go
35:04off
35:04at one
35:04o'clock
35:05and then
35:05taking it
35:06to three
35:06minutes
35:07past one
35:07then
35:08blowing
35:08it up
35:09I remember
35:10at the
35:10time I
35:10was at
35:10the press
35:11show
35:11and one
35:12rather
35:13important
35:15critic
35:16almost
35:17rushed
35:18at me
35:19with raised
35:20fists
35:20for doing
35:22that to
35:23her
35:23because she
35:24said she
35:25had a
35:25five-year-old
35:26boy at
35:27the time
35:27I think
35:29the boy
35:29is now
35:29a journalist
35:30in Fleet
35:31Street
35:31did you
35:32at that
35:33time
35:33realize
35:33at that
35:34press
35:34show
35:34that you
35:35had made
35:35a mistake
35:35or did
35:36it take
35:36a while
35:36for these
35:37truths
35:38sinking
35:39took a while
35:40now the
35:41thing we
35:42remember about
35:42young and
35:42innocent
35:43is
35:43a very
35:44very long
35:45very very
35:46slow track
35:47into a
35:48twitching
35:49eye
35:49well
35:51this is
35:52another
35:52variation
35:53of
35:54letting
35:55the audience
35:56in on
35:56something
35:57in this
35:57situation
35:58you have
35:59a young
36:01girl
36:01with a
36:02hobo
36:03a tramp
36:03you see
36:04and he's
36:05the only
36:05man who
36:06could identify
36:06this murderer
36:07and all they
36:08know is that
36:09he has
36:09some
36:09vital stance
36:10in the
36:11eyes
36:11and she
36:13manages to
36:13get him
36:14some
36:14good clothes
36:17and they
36:17go into
36:17this large
36:18seaside hotel
36:19where there's
36:20a
36:20dance
36:21being held
36:22and they
36:23dance a bit
36:24and they
36:24sit at the
36:25table
36:25and the
36:26old boy
36:26said well
36:27this is
36:27idiotic
36:28in a big
36:30room like
36:30this trying
36:31to find a
36:32man who
36:33has
36:33twitching
36:34eyes
36:35at that
36:36moment
36:36I take
36:37the camera
36:38high up
36:39into the
36:39lobby of
36:40the hotel
36:41and do
36:42the longest
36:42dolly shot
36:43through the
36:44lobby
36:44through the
36:45ballroom
36:46through the
36:46dancers
36:47through a
36:49minstrel
36:50blackface
36:51band
36:51right through
36:53the band
36:54to the
36:54drummer
36:54to his
36:56head
36:56and right
36:57to his
36:58eyes
36:58and the
36:59moment the
36:59camera arrives
37:00there
37:00they blink
37:01and the
37:02moment you
37:02do that
37:03you go back
37:03to the
37:04young couple
37:04so the
37:05audience now
37:05knows the
37:06young couple
37:06are still
37:07lost
37:07now you
37:07said to
37:08the audience
37:08audience
37:09you know
37:10where he
37:11is
37:11how do you
37:13think these
37:13two are going
37:14to find him
37:14and the rest
37:16of it was
37:17the processes
37:18by which they
37:19discovered him
37:20and then moving
37:22on to the
37:22last film
37:23which is in
37:24our canvas
37:24today
37:25the lady
37:26vanishes
37:26and shortly
37:27after the lady
37:27vanished
37:27Alfred Hitchcock
37:28did as well
37:29to Hollywood
37:31well that was
37:32the next step
37:33you know
37:33why do you
37:36think that
37:36film was
37:37so successful
37:37and why
37:37do you
37:38think it
37:38drew
37:38Hollywood's
37:39attention
37:41Lady
37:43Vanishes
37:44because it
37:45was that
37:45film which
37:46brought you
37:47the firm
37:47offers from
37:48Hollywood
37:48that took
37:49you over
37:49there
37:49wasn't it
37:49oh no
37:50no it
37:50wasn't
37:51no
37:51no but as
37:52a matter
37:53of fact
37:53I was in
37:55the middle
37:56of shooting
37:56Lady
37:57Vanishes
37:57when I
37:58got the
37:58offer
37:59to go
37:59to sell
38:00stick
38:01and that
38:01was to
38:01make a
38:02film on
38:02the Titanic
38:03which you
38:06couldn't do
38:07no which
38:08they switched
38:08to Rebecca
38:09oh no no
38:11the offer
38:11came a long
38:12time before
38:13I believe
38:15the Lady
38:15Vanishes
38:15you
38:16regarding
38:16the variation
38:17on the
38:17theme of
38:18an old
38:18chestnut
38:19story about
38:19an English
38:20lady in
38:20Paris
38:21in the
38:211880s
38:21oh that's
38:22the old
38:22legend
38:23I mean
38:23Alexander
38:24Walcott
38:24has it
38:25in his
38:25book
38:26While Rome
38:26Burns
38:27it took
38:28place
38:28around
38:28the
38:28time
38:29of
38:29the
38:29great
38:30Paris
38:30exposition
38:31about
38:311880
38:32or something
38:33when they
38:33built
38:33the Eiffel
38:34Tower
38:34and a
38:35mother and
38:36daughter
38:36arrived
38:37in Paris
38:38from India
38:39the mother
38:40was taken
38:40ill
38:41and doctor
38:42examined
38:43and so
38:43forth
38:43they sent
38:44the daughter
38:44off
38:45to get
38:46some
38:46medicine
38:46because
38:47there were
38:47only horse
38:48vehicles
38:48in those
38:49days
38:49so it
38:50took
38:50four hours
38:51for the
38:51girl to
38:51go across
38:52Paris
38:52and bring
38:53back
38:53this
38:53particular
38:53medicine
38:54when she
38:54came to
38:55the desk
38:55and said
38:55how's my
38:56mother
38:56they said
38:56what
38:57mother
38:57they disowned
38:59the mother
38:59she said
38:59well she's
39:00in Rome
39:00so so
39:00they show
39:01the girl
39:02the room
39:02and it's
39:02differently
39:05wallpapered
39:06and so
39:07forth
39:07and of course
39:07the whole
39:08secret was
39:08they were
39:09terrified
39:10that this
39:10woman
39:11who had
39:11died
39:12from bubonic
39:13plate
39:13they would
39:14get around
39:14the city
39:15and ruin
39:15the exposition
39:16that was
39:17the so
39:17called
39:18story
39:18Mrs.
39:20Belloc
39:20Lounds
39:20wrote
39:20well I can't
39:21remember the
39:21name of her
39:22story
39:22it's been
39:23written by
39:23several people
39:24and this
39:25one by
39:26ethylene
39:26and white
39:27the wheel
39:27spins
39:28was the
39:28same idea
39:29but in a
39:30different setting
39:32yes sure
39:33I believe in fact
39:33you have shot
39:34your own film
39:35done in flames
39:36there by saying
39:36why didn't they
39:37send the message
39:38back by carrier
39:38pigeon
39:39which would have
39:40destroyed the
39:40entire plot
39:41I was a moron
39:42coming along
39:42with my logic
39:43you see
39:44but cutting
39:46with it
39:47can you
39:47cut
39:47Phil
39:48one final
39:51question
39:51you've given
39:52a lot of
39:53audiences
39:53shocks
39:54sitting in
39:54the stalls
39:55you've
39:55frightened
39:55me to
39:56death
39:56with
39:57psycho
39:57what
39:58frightens
39:58you
39:59policeman
40:00why
40:02I don't
40:03know
40:03I'm scared
40:03of policemen
40:04that's why
40:04I won't
40:05drive a car
40:05if I don't
40:08drive a car
40:08I can't get
40:09a ticket
40:09can't bear
40:10the suspense
40:11of waiting
40:13for the result
40:14of a ticket
40:15or a summons
40:16I'm really
40:17quite distressed
40:17about it
40:18but you're
40:20very serious
40:21I'm really
40:22absolutely
40:22serious
40:23about that
40:23yes
40:23I'm a very
40:25shy
40:25mild
40:27inoffensive
40:28individual
40:29I don't
40:30know
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