During a House Oversight Committee hearing on Wednesday, Rep. Wesley Bell (D-MO) asked Department of Homeland Security Inspector General Joseph V. Cuffari about masked Immigration and Customs Enforcement Officers.
00:00Chair recognizes Mr. Bell for five minutes for a question.
00:04Mr. Chair, before my time, I have some unanimous consents.
00:07Yes, sir.
00:08With unanimous consent, I'd like to enter the following articles regarding Inspector General Khafari's conduct from the project on government oversight into the record.
00:18One is dated October 3rd, 2024.
00:21DHS watchdog repeatedly misled Congress.
00:24One is dated October 2nd, 2024, a watchdog's war on oversight.
00:30One is dated April 20th, 2021, pulling punches.
00:36Trump-appointed watchdog suppress White House-related probes.
00:39There's an article on July 1st, 2021, that whistleblower reprisal helped set the stage for a January 6th intelligence failure.
00:46On July 21st, 2022, an article entitled DHS Watchdog Failed to Sound Alarm for Months on Secret Service's Purge January 6th text.
00:57On August 11th, 2022, DHS Watchdog nixed alert to Congress about Purge January 6th text, New Doc's show.
01:05On March 8th, 2023, whistleblower reprisal feared in key parts of DHS Watchdog.
01:12On January 6th, 2023, DHS Watchdog regularly purges texts on government phone despite ongoing investigation.
01:20And lastly, DHS Watchdog, on July 27th, 2023, DHS Watchdog settles whistleblower reprisal case for $1.17 million.
01:30Mr. Chairman, I would like to enter into unanimous consent.
01:33For Mr. Bell, entered without objection.
01:37Ms. Simon is recognized.
01:38Thank you, Mr. Chair.
01:39I ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record the Council on the Inspector General's on the Integrity and Efficiency 1,000-page report on the Inspector General's misconduct.
01:55Without objection.
01:56Mr. Chair, unanimous consent, please.
01:58Mr. Garcia is recognized.
02:00Thank you, Mr. Chair.
02:00I want to submit for unanimous consent.
02:02I just want to introduce this document into the record listing all the calls to release the Epstein files from members of this committee.
02:09Would you mind repeating your request to enter, sir, the title of your entry?
02:19The title is, this is a document into the record listing the members of this committee and their individual calls to release the Epstein files.
02:27Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
02:29Thank you, Mr. Chair, Ranking Member, and our witness for being here today.
02:45Just for housekeeping, this report, which I did look at, was starting from a time period in 2019, correct?
02:56Fiscal year 2019 to 23.
02:59And who was the president in 2019?
03:042019 was President Trump.
03:06And who appointed you, Mr. Kafari?
03:08President Trump.
03:09Mr. Kafari, can you tell me which populations are at the highest risk of being victims of human trafficking or sexual exploitation?
03:17Those who are not put, and those who the federal government does not have.
03:21Let me chime in.
03:22The answers are youth, children.
03:25Individuals under the age of 18 are the highest risk.
03:28And of that population, the most vulnerable, of the most vulnerable, are unaccompanied, unmonitored children.
03:40And that invulnerability, caused by instability and lack of support, puts children at risk.
03:48And unaccompanied minors often arrive alone from dangerous conditions with no protection or guidance,
03:54which makes them easy targets for trafficking and exploitation.
03:59And, Mr. Kafari, do you know the most used tactic by human traffickers and predators to lure victims in?
04:09A promise of some better lifestyle.
04:12Coercion, lying, usually coming from a figure of authority, figures of authority who exploit those young people who may not know and prey on victims' fears.
04:24I'm a former prosecutor and have extensive work in local government.
04:30And so I understand the roles that figures of power play in communities, figures like our law enforcement.
04:37And in many communities, ICE is much more prevalent with respect to law enforcement.
04:44And this role can play, it can shape an individual's actions and how they respond, particularly when they're scared or alone.
04:57And so I've got a couple quick questions for you.
04:59Are you familiar with reports in Philadelphia of a man posing as an ICE agent who robbed people and actually false-imprisoned them?
05:11Were you aware of that?
05:11I'm a native of Philadelphia.
05:14I'm aware of that case.
05:16In Houston, are you aware of a man who was arrested after he robbed somebody while also impersonating an ICE agent?
05:22I don't know about that.
05:24And in Florida, a 23-year-old man was arrested and charged when police said that he claimed to be an ICE officer
05:30and threatened to deport two men after he pulled their vehicle over and demanded identification.
05:36Were you familiar with that?
05:37I am.
05:38And so the concern, our colleague talked about things that we should be concerned about, talking about previous administrations in the past.
05:49I think these are things that we should be concerned about, like right now.
05:53Would you agree with that?
05:54I do.
05:55And when people are walking around with masks and they are identifying themselves as law enforcement agents or more specifically ICE agents, that's problematic, isn't it?
06:08For whom?
06:11Pick the person.
06:13The person who's there, the victim, the whomever.
06:17So let me ask you this.
06:18So you don't think that it's a problem when someone who might be inclined to rob someone, kidnap them, steal someone, now they know that they can put a mask on, claim to be ICE, and people won't know?
06:30Without proper identification?
06:32So is it your testimony today that all ICE agents need to properly identify themselves?
06:42That's a decision by the Department of Homeland Security.
06:45So, but what are your thoughts on that?
06:49It's the decision of the Department of Homeland Security, how to deploy their law enforcement.
06:55Okay, so I've dealt with law enforcement.
06:57I've worked with law enforcement.
06:59And they don't wear masks.
07:00They show themselves.
07:01They identify themselves because it's about the trust and accountability part.
07:06So here's a hypothetical.
07:07So you have a good faith belief that this person who's approached you is not a law enforcement figure or an ICE agent, and you resist, and you're wrong.
07:23Do you know what will happen to you?
07:26That's a hypothetical.
07:27I don't know what would happen.
07:28You would be prosecuted.
07:29So I don't know if you're an attorney.
07:32I'm an attorney.
07:33When we're talking about the law, we start with hypotheticals because when we're discussing policy, we have to think about every situation that could potentially happen.
07:42And so you have mass people walking around, and everyone knows that ICE agents are, that people can portray themselves as ICE agents.
07:53And if you're wrong, you get prosecuted, and that is a problem.
07:58And we've seen articles of it in Los Angeles and other places that we mentioned all over the country.
