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00:00Kwan's are meant to challenge the very fundamentals. Kwan does through an abrupt
00:07shock. It shocks you out of your illusion. Let's look at a few kwan's. So the elder
00:14Ting asked Lin Chi, Master what is the great meaning of Buddha's teachings?
00:20Lin Chi came down from his seat, slapped Ting and pushed him away and at that
00:25moment Ting attained great enlightenment. This is about Chao Chu. One day Chao Chu fell
00:31down in the snow and called out help me up help me up. What's left unsaid here is
00:37in the typical Kwan style walked away enlightened. Now another shocker. Ninth
00:42one. If you meet the Buddha kill the Buddha. That shocks us so much. The student
00:49asked such a question to the master and the master replies and that replies a Kwan
00:54and the reply resulted in sudden enlightenment for the disciple. Sudden enlightenment.
01:00What do you exactly mean when you say the right one that the Zen Kwan's were
01:05as you said the Kwan's are about giving shock. So does bodily pain have a role in
01:11the disillusionment of a student?
01:14We are starting this new series, wisdom from the world, which will allow us to look at wisdom
01:35literature from all parts of the world and all times, irrespective of their place of origin,
01:50culture or history or identity. So we'll be able to take up
02:05Zen Kwan's will be able to take up Sufi mysticism, Christian mysticism and loser to our times,
02:34existential stories, plays that will help us widen our perspective. So we'll start with
02:55the Kwan's today. Kwan's originate in China. So Buddhism reaches China from India.
03:23Kwan's originate in China and emphasizes on direct meditative observation and that Dhyan becomes
03:39Chaan in Chinese. And that was also after its interaction with the revealing tradition of Taoism
03:52there. And from China, this Chaan travels to Japan and becomes Zen. So, there is Buddhism in India,
04:18Buddhism travels to China becomes Chan and then travels to Japan becomes Zen. And in Zen, there is a, a particular Rinzai school, named after a teacher Rinzai. And, uh, this Rinzai was a very
04:23peculiar teacher actually, and
04:46This Rinzai was a very peculiar teacher actually and quants are attributed to him, the beginning
04:57of the quants dream, though in time many big names got associated with it.
05:09So Rinzai was known for shocking his students out of their egoistic slumber and quants are
05:24a form of spiritual innovation.
05:33So what Rinzai innovated was a method of shock.
05:39His method of shock would go to the extent of shouting at his disciples or even beating
05:48them up.
05:50So quants are the verbal counterpart of the shock methods of Rinzai.
06:01They shock the mind into getting out from its usual patterns.
06:17The mind is a flow.
06:19Quants are meant to challenge the very fundamentals, the very fundamentals.
06:29So, for example, you will say, this is my face.
06:42That is your hand, stay away.
06:51This is my face.
06:52That is your hand.
06:53The two of us are different.
06:58And this looks entirely sound logic.
07:02My face, your hand.
07:05A kwan would very innocently ask, what was your face before you were born?
07:23What was your face before you were born?
07:26So that which looks unchallengeable is challenged by the kwan and that too with a lot of insouciance.
07:42A lot of childlike innocence.
07:51What was your face before you were born, please tell me.
07:55And then the kwan would proceed to say, what was your parents face before you were born?
08:07And here you feel like rushing to say, well, my parents had a particular face and I have
08:13seen that face in pics and that existed even before I was born.
08:19A kwan would want you to think about it.
08:24Getting it?
08:28So, that to which Vedanta comes in a philosophical way, analytical way, kwan come in a poetic way
08:46and abrupt way.
08:52After a long line of refined logic, very refined logic.
09:02For example, the Upanishads will say, ekam eva advitiyam.
09:13The second, really does not exist.
09:20And the kwan would simply ask, what is the sound of one hand clapping?
09:26The sound of one hand clapping, yatra yatra mano yate tatra tatra samadhyaya.
09:37That's the highest thing.
09:40That wherever you are, that's where the truth is.
09:47And how would the kwan put it?
09:50The disciple asked the master, what is the Buddha?
09:55The master said, the ground under your feet.
10:02The ground under your feet.
10:09A very famous kwan is, does a dog have Buddha nature?
10:20Does a dog have Buddha nature?
10:23And the answer to that is silence.
10:25But the master does not remain silent.
10:27He says, mu.
10:32And what does mu imply?
10:34That the depth of the answer is far beyond the scope of your little question.
10:44Your question cannot accommodate the answer and that is mu.
10:49There is no way an answer can be given within the narrow paradigm you are asking the question.
10:59That is mu, so mu is a sound for silence, mu.
11:12The upanishads, the kyan upanishad, they put it more philosophically.
11:24They would say, when, when, when the teacher is asked, what is the truth, how to reach it?
11:33This is the most beautiful part of kyan upanishad.
11:36Teacher says, na tatra chakshur gacchate, na vaag gacchate, na manah.
11:43The eyes do not go there, the ears do not, nor does the mind.
11:53So there is no way that can be reached or touched or described that implying the truth.
12:02In Zen, in koans, the answer is a very brief mu.
12:11And because it is very brief, it stuns, it shocks, it leaves you speechless.
12:26So repeatedly you find the mention, that the student asks such a question to the master
12:36and the master replies.
12:39And that reply is a koan.
12:42And the reply resulted in sudden enlightenment for the disciple.
12:48Sudden enlightenment.
12:50What does sudden enlightenment mean?
12:52That there was something that was clouding, cluttering the mind since long.
13:03And the disciple was unable to get rid of it.
13:08And in one deft stroke, like a genius, the master was able to cut the clutter.
13:18Cut the cord of illusion.
13:25Cut the relationship between the ego and its object, the ego and its belief.
13:34That is the koan.
13:37What Vedanta does through a lot of persuasive argument.
13:44Kauan does through an abrupt shock.
14:00It shocks you out of your illusion.
14:04It leaves you suffocated.
14:09You are left crying for, craving for an answer to a question that defies logic.
14:28In the process you see, that what you call as obvious facts and then proceed to live on them, are just mere beliefs.
14:45And that is the very problematic limit of logic.
14:54All logic is based on prepositions and prepositions are often just assumptions.
15:04Often just assumptions.
15:09Let's look at a few koans.
15:15I asked 10 or more interesting ones to be compiled and where is this list?
15:30Which one do we begin with?
15:37Which one do we begin with?
15:44So, let's begin in the typical Rinzai way.
15:54The fifth one.
15:56The fifth one.
15:58I hope the audience has a copy of this text with them.
16:02Anyway, I will read it out.
16:07So, the elder Ting asked Linchi, Master, what is the great meaning of Buddha's teachings?
16:19So, Ting here is the disciple and he is asking Linchi.
16:26It's a perfectly legitimate question, a very sincere question, politely asked.
16:33Master, what is the great meaning of Buddha's teachings?
16:38We would expect any teacher to appreciate such a question.
16:46But what do we get here?
16:49Linchi came down from his seat, slapped Ting and pushed him away.
16:56And what has Ting done?
16:57Just asked, what is the great meaning of Buddha's teachings?
17:01And he has been slapped and pushed away.
17:04Ting was stunned and stood motionless.
17:07This movement of receiving an electric shock is very central to the koan method.
17:16Ting was stunned and stood motionless.
17:21A monk nearby said, Ting, why do you not bow?
17:27This is usual practice, politeness, decorum, mannerism.
17:35To bow to the master when you receive an answer.
17:38You ask a question and if the master answers you, you are supposed to bow.
17:44But Ting has been so badly stunned that he has forgotten the protocol.
17:57And at that moment, Ting attained great enlightenment.
18:03This is the koan.
18:04This is the koan.
18:06And with the usual conditioned mind, you will not be able to make much sense of it.
18:16What is happening?
18:17So, here you are, Ting, thinking of yourself as a student.
18:27You think you are a student.
18:29But had you really been a student, then all that you act, being a student, would have been
18:42very central to your being.
18:44If I am a student, right from my core, then all my actions that I display, as being those
18:57of a student, should be spontaneous, should be very spontaneous, right?
19:09Never optional.
19:14But here, see, one push, one slap.
19:24And you forgot all decency, all politeness.
19:29You just stood shocked.
19:32What does that mean?
19:34That being a student is not your primary identity.
19:40Being a student or being even Ting is just something that you are wearing over yourself.
19:50And that which you are wearing over yourself is exactly what has been slapped and pushed
19:55aside by the teacher.
19:58Please understand.
20:02Ting is asking, what is the core of Buddha's teaching?
20:09The master says, this is the core of Buddha's teaching, that all that which is false must
20:14be slapped and pushed away.
20:16And whatever thing has become, whatever he thinks of himself, whatever his personality
20:24is, whatever his identity is, all that is just false.
20:29And that's exactly what the Buddha has taught.
20:33Whatever you think of yourself deserves to be slapped and pushed away.
20:37And that's exactly what I did.
20:40And when I did that, I was proven right.
20:42Because when the student was slapped and pushed away, see, the student ceased to be a student.
20:48The proof is that he did not bow.
20:53Had the student been really inexorably a student, irreversibly a student, choicelessly a student,
21:10he would have remained a student even in his death.
21:13Even in the moment of his death, he would have still not forgotten that he is a student
21:18and would have continued to show the usual cultural obedience and reverence to the teacher.
21:27But you see, whatever you think of yourself is just like the courtesy of bending and bowing
21:36to the teacher, it is a thing of the mind, it is a thing of memory, it is a thing of convenience,
21:43it is a thing of conditioning.
21:46And that's what needs to be slapped and pushed away and that's the Buddha's teaching.
21:52So koans in that sense, become more experiential than just analytical.
21:59Analysis requires time.
22:01Analysis does not give you time to analyse.
22:07They are like a bolt from the blue.
22:10You are hit, shattered, before your defences can get activated, before your logic can become
22:22a shield, an armour and protect you.
22:30The master just suddenly sends something your way and you are unprepared.
22:38And he says, watcha, getting it?
22:46The same thing Vedanta does in a more elaborate way.
22:53The teacher will go a long distance, very laboriously teaching you that your personality is false,
23:05that the ego is the false centre, that your thoughts, beliefs, opinions, emotions are just objects of conditioning.
23:19And the student would be sitting and the teacher would be taking a lot of pains delivering these
23:25things to him.
23:27In the koan method, these things are delivered experientially and instantaneously.
23:38But the limitation of the koan method is, these things can work only on someone who is very, very prepared.
23:45very, very ripe already.
23:51If you are not ripe enough, when the teacher slaps you, you will just feel offended.
23:57Worse still, you may slap the teacher back.
24:02What the koan does not say is, that thing was already a very mature student.
24:11And when you are just there, right at the edge of the cliff, but unable to take the final step
24:21into the abyss, the depths of the unknown, that's when koans come handy.
24:31Koans are not for someone who is just beginning his journey or is at some point in the middle
24:35of it.
24:38Koans are for those, who are like ripe mangoes hanging from the branches.
24:49Already very ripe, but for some reason unable to leave the attachment to the branch.
24:56And in that process, now they run the danger of getting decayed.
25:05Or being spoilt by birds or something, right?
25:11If a ripe fruit stays for too long on the tree, then that's not good.
25:20It must leave the branch.
25:24Otherwise, both the seed and the pulp stand threatened.
25:37But it often does happen, that mango or some fruit might be quite ripe, but still not falling.
25:48So, koans are like the shock.
25:52You go and just shake the trunk up or the branch.
25:58You shake it up.
25:59And the ripe ones fall.
26:04Vidanta takes you from your very ordinary state to a state of ripeness.
26:18And that is why you will find that most of the koans are presented as discussions between
26:27the disciple and the master.
26:31So it is already a disciple, an advanced disciple who is asking a question and the master replies
26:37and then often the koan ends with and the disciple was immediately enlightened.
26:45So it is already an advanced disciple who gets immediately enlightened.
27:06Pick up the simpler ones first and then proceed to the more high voltage ones.
27:21The eighth one.
27:28This is about Chao Chu.
27:33One day Chao Chu fell down in the snow and called out, help me up, help me up.
27:42So there is this Chao Chu, most probably himself a monk.
27:49So Chao Chu has fallen in the snow and he is calling, help me, help me.
27:56So a monk came and lay down beside him.
28:03So he finds someone coming to him, must be expecting that this fellow will now lend a hand and pull him up.
28:10But instead of pulling him up, what does this monk do?
28:14Came and lay down beside him.
28:17Now Chao Chu got up and went away.
28:20This Chao Chu was shouting, come help me, help me.
28:25I have fallen into the snow, can't get up, somebody lend a hand.
28:30Now instead of extending help, this monk comes and lies down behind him, Chao Chu.
28:39Now Chao Chu sees this, gets a jolt, simply gets up and walks away.
28:45What has this other monk, in a second, experientially taught Chao Chu?
28:57Bondage is a choice.
29:01You are not helpless.
29:03You are pretending to be.
29:09Just as you chose to fall into the snow, you can equally choose to get up and walk away.
29:22It is within your power.
29:24But you are pretending to be helpless and that is a very old way of the ego.
29:32Pretend to be helpless when you are actually not.
29:38Pretend to be helpless when you are actually not.
29:45Getting it?
29:50Now obviously this cannot work with someone,
29:55who is in no position to receive the instruction.
30:01Or who is actually fallen so deep into the snow,
30:07that he can't get out on his own.
30:12In the zone of facts and physicality, that is possible.
30:19You could be a very weak person, physically.
30:22Right?
30:23Or you could have slipped deep into the snow.
30:28That too is possible.
30:29That too is possible.
30:30And it is not always possible that you get up and walk away on your own.
30:35So here it is seen that probably the disciple Chao Chu is young and strong.
30:45He does have the capacity to get up and walk away.
30:48But is still acting feeble and helpless.
30:53So a fellow monk or a teacher, a master saw this as an opportune time to deliver an instruction, a message.
31:06And said let me use this situation to drive home a very important point.
31:16And how was that done?
31:19A monk, a friend walked up to Chao Chu and just lay down beside him.
31:29And Chao Chu got the message, simply got up and walked away.
31:35Walked away and what's left unsaid here is in the typical koan style, walked away enlightened.
31:50Now, another shocker, ninth one.
32:03If you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha.
32:07Now that shocks us so much and these are all followers of the Buddha.
32:12These are all Zen Buddhists.
32:17And they are saying if you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha.
32:20Why are they saying that?
32:22Because you cannot meet someone you do not already know of.
32:32You just don't know Demelo.
32:38Can you meet Demelo?
32:40Even if Demelo crosses your path, would you say I met Demelo?
32:51What do you say?
32:52What do you say?
32:53So meeting the Buddha would imply that you already know the Buddha.
32:59You already know Sharmaji.
33:01So suddenly when you happen to see him on the road, you say Sharmaji, I met Sharmaji.
33:12But if you do not know Demelo, Demelo can coolly walk past you and you will not be able to claim that you have met or seen or encountered Demelo.
33:22Right?
33:24Right?
33:25How can you meet the Buddha?
33:26How can you meet the Buddha?
33:28If you say you have met the Buddha, that means that you already have an image of Buddha just as you have an image of Sharmaji.
33:40Right?
33:41You already know Sharmaji.
33:42But how do you already know the Buddha?
33:47By having a cultivated image of your own and in that image lie all your conveniences, all your mischief and all your bondage.
34:01Right?
34:02So first of all, you build up an image of the Buddha and then, if you find someone corresponding to that image, you declare that person to be Buddha.
34:17The funny thing is, often the other person also knows what particular image you have maintained of the Buddha in your mind.
34:30He already knows that in your mind, the Buddha is like this, this and this.
34:39So that makes it very easy for the other person to look, act, behave like the Buddha.
34:48And when you will encounter that person, you will immediately say, today I met the Buddha.
34:58The Zen masters could have put it in a simpler way, less shocking way.
35:05In a more sober way.
35:10But they want to shake your mind, your consciousness up.
35:15They are saying, the real one can never be known.
35:25In other words, truth is unknowable.
35:30Truth is unknowable.
35:41The Upanishads continue to repeat that.
35:45Your descriptions, your images, will never be able to capture the truth.
35:50And if something that can be described, is being touted as the truth, just run away.
36:04Anything with attributes, anything with properties, anything that can be registered in the memory, just cannot correspond to the truth.
36:23Wherever you find such a thing happening, just smile and know that it's Maya.
36:38If you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha.
36:41Which Buddha?
36:42The one that you have met on the road or the one that exists in your mind as an image?
36:50If there is an image of greatness that you have in mind, kill that image.
37:03The more you carry that image, the more greatness will remain elusive.
37:15I'm getting it.
37:16Charaji, the first question from the session is from Drishti.
37:25I'll ask on her behalf because she seems to have dropped out.
37:29Her question was, Namaste Charaji.
37:33In most koans, I can see that there is an element of small physical pain.
37:38As you said, koans are about giving shock.
37:41So, does bodily pain have a role in the disillusionment of a student or is it just a matter of illustration?
37:48You see, the ego is related to physical comfort.
37:55So, if you want to unsettle the ego, it is sometimes helpful to unsettle the body.
38:08We talked of Rinzai today, I think it was Rinzai himself who delivered the utmost shock to the body.
38:23So, there was this student he had and whenever Rinzai would ask a deep important question that he wanted the students to reflect over.
38:36Now, instead of giving the question sufficient time and respect and reflection, this one student would just raise his finger as if he already knows the answer.
38:53Hmm?
38:54Hmm?
38:55In a very impudent kind of way.
39:00So, the teacher would ask the question and this, this, this one, this fellow would not take time to absorb the question, understand it, but would behave as if, you know, he is, he already knows, already knows.
39:18And probably this student was not really an idiot, he was a sharp one because he belonged to the master's group of disciples.
39:32Had he really been a duffer, he wouldn't have been found in front of the master.
39:37So, probably a sharp student and probably there was some merit in his assertion that he already knows the answer, but he didn't obviously quite fully know the answer.
39:52Yet, he was insisting that I am the know-all one.
39:59So, the master, seeing this happen repeatedly, goes to the disciple and simply cuts off his finger.
40:12And the koan says that the, it was at this, this moment that the disciple got immediately enlightened.
40:22Hmm?
40:23You understand this, maybe the finger was not totally cut off, maybe just took the finger and bended it backwards a little painfully, or delivered a little cut to it, something.
40:38But the master did do something painful to the finger.
40:43Because the fundamental association of the ego is with the body, right?
40:49I am the body.
40:50So, you shake up the body, the ego shakes up.
40:53That does not really support or validate physical mistreatment.
41:02But what that tells is that in the rarest of cases, it is possible for a wise and skillful master to deliver a subtle message through physical pain also.
41:27But those are rare conditions and they require a very willing and ripe disciple and a skillful teacher.
41:36In today's context, if you go and if you chop off a kid's finger, you would be in jail.
41:48Right?
41:49So, it is in very unique, very rare, very distinct environments and in very deep student-teacher relationships that it is possible for the teacher to inflict physical pain on the student and help the student through that pain.
42:09It is possible, but in very rare circumstances.
42:10Namaste Acharya Ji.
42:11Namaste Acharya Ji.
42:12Can you hear me?
42:13Yes.
42:14I wanted to ask about what you exactly mean when you say the ripe ones, that the Zen Kwans work
42:16only on the ripe ones.
42:17Only few instructions are used.
42:18It is said that it works on only the ripe.
42:24And you described ripe as a fruit that is weakly hung to a tree and can fall at any moment.
42:31But it is still attached to the tree.
42:52can fall at any moment, but it is still attached to the tree.
42:58What is the difference between this, a person who is attached in this way and a person who
43:04is not ripe, let's say?
43:07The falling is an event.
43:11It is a particular moment when the fruit falls.
43:16The ripening is a process.
43:20The falling is an event.
43:22The quants refer to that event, like sudden shattering of glass, it is an event.
43:31It is a loud event, it is a conspicuous event, it catches your attention, it is an event.
43:39But the ripening of the fruit is a silent, unattractive process.
43:50It takes effort.
43:52It requires being in the process, staying on the path.
43:59That's what results in ripening.
44:04So is enlightenment a process?
44:07Not exactly.
44:08Is it an event?
44:09Is it an event?
44:10Not exactly.
44:11It is neither a process nor an event.
44:14Is it a combination of both?
44:16Even that cannot really be said.
44:18But what is definite is that you cannot escape the process.
44:24For example, you cannot escape writing reflections or writing exams or attending sessions or engaging
44:35with the kind of stuff I send you away.
44:41You cannot escape all that and still hope to be ripe.
44:46All that is a process.
44:49You engage with that over a period of time and then slowly you find that you are ripening.
44:56That the sour, tangy fruit is turning sweet.
45:03What role does the choice play here, personal choice?
45:13All the role, all the credit is due to choice.
45:19Because you cannot stay in that process absurdly.
45:24Prakriti is absurd, Prakriti is random.
45:27You probably can come to me due to a random happening.
45:36It is possible.
45:38But you cannot stay here randomly.
45:40It will require a lot of conscious choice.
45:44You will have to choose every time, every day, every session, every exam.
45:49You will have to choose.
46:00Prakriti does not require any choices.
46:05Expression from Prakriti requires choices.
46:08You can continue to be in the Prakriti flow without applying choice of any kind, right?
46:22Yes.
46:35Prakriti has to be seen for what it is and left at its place.
46:45The universe is absurd and I don't want to find meaning in that absurdity.
46:51This is called detachment.
46:57This is also liberation.
46:58All liberation in some sense is liberation from the attempt to project meaning on absurdity.
47:08Liberation is to refrain from projecting doership on randomness.
47:20That is liberation.
47:21Are you getting it?
47:27Vedanta proceeds through explanation and brings you to a point where Kuan, Kuan, Kuan, Kuan,
47:47Kuan delivers it through experience from explanation to experience.
47:58What kind of you read?
48:03The universe is a mystery.
48:06The universe is a mystery.
48:10The universe is a mystery.
48:15The universe is a mystery.
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