00:00All right. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Yeah. Senator Cruz, you're recognized.
00:05Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to each of the witnesses for being here.
00:08I want to go back, Mr. Spear and Mr. O'Brien, to the topic that Senator Peters raised,
00:12which is autonomous vehicles, which is obviously an incredibly important topic,
00:17one that impacts over three million jobs, one that impacts our economy profoundly.
00:23Mr. O'Brien, I wanted to give you an opportunity to respond to what Mr. Spear said,
00:27particularly talking about levels one through four of automation and what your view and the
00:32Teamsters view is on levels of observation, automation that fall short of removing the
00:38driver. What is y'all, y'all's view on that? I'm not familiar with one through five,
00:44what he's talking about, but I can talk about the threat. You know, we talk about automation and
00:50I've drove a truck my entire life. I drove oversized loads. I hauled heavy equipment,
00:54both interstate and interstate. And, you know, there's no better brain or better computer than
01:02your brain or your instinct. Now, we understand technology is coming and we're not trying to
01:06impede any type of technology that is going to make business more efficient. Our sole goal is to
01:14protect these jobs and to make certain that people that don't have the opportunity to go to college,
01:19that don't have the opportunity to get high, you know, white collar jobs, have the opportunity in
01:24the trucking industry. I'm a fourth generation truck driver and I've seen firsthand how important
01:30it is to maintain these jobs at the highest level. If we try and replace human operators
01:35with computers, I think one, it's going to be detrimental to recruiting new drivers, which further
01:41would give credibility to a driver shortage because the uncertainty in the industry. Secondly, again,
01:47it's going to be such a public safety risk. I mean, do you want your family driving in a car,
01:52a minivan next to a vehicle, not being operated by a human? I don't. I have two boys and I, you know,
01:58would hate to think that they're vulnerable to a malfunction on a computer. And lastly, the
02:03infrastructure. I mean, how many times, and you've been around a long time, Senator, well-respected,
02:08have you fought long and hard to improve infrastructure, especially in your state? Now, if we allow all these
02:16autonomous vehicles to run wild, it's going to destroy that infrastructure that we as taxpayers
02:22have all invested in over the last several decades. And I think the most important thing,
02:27and I'll say it again, is the jobs. Where do these people go if you eliminate three million jobs?
02:32And people may not think, or there's testimony here, it's not happening for a long time.
02:37Don't kid yourself. A big tech could have this done tomorrow, and these corporations could operate
02:42without human operators, without paying wages, benefits. That would happen tomorrow.
02:47So, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Speer, both of y'all have called for a federal framework for autonomous vehicles.
02:53I want to ask each of you, what are the most important two or three elements in any federal
02:58framework? Mr. Speer, you can go first. Well, I think interstate commerce. You've got to protect it.
03:03We need one standard, not 50. Right now, you have 16 states that have automated vehicle laws on the
03:08books. We're operating. We're developing technologies that I think are going to really
03:13be forward-leaning in terms of productivity and what it can do for the supply chain in levels one
03:21through four. We're a ways out from full autonomy. You might see it, as I said earlier, in the southwest,
03:26but nationwide, I just don't see it in the near future. But to get there, you've got to develop it.
03:32A ways out. How would you quantify that? I'd say probably 10, 15 years out. But it's always
03:37described as threat to jobs, threat to jobs. I go back to the ports example. 65 ports in this
03:42country, not one of them ranks in the top 50 for efficiency and productivity. This president wants
03:48to take things to a whole nother level, grow this economy. We're going to need both jobs and
03:55autonomy. We're going to need technologies to get that throughput in and out of those ports and on our
04:00roads to where it needs to go. You're going to need both those hard-working union jobs, and you're
04:05going to need technology to assist them. This is assuming the economy remains stagnant, that we've
04:11got to wrap our, you know, bubble wrap around all these jobs to protect them. No, we don't. They're
04:17going to be there. We need more throughput to grow the economy. We're just not going to be able to do it
04:23by adding more people. You're going to have to add technology to get efficiency. It's that simple. You need both.
04:29So, Mr. O'Brien, top two or three elements in a federal framework for AVs. We need human
04:35operators in these vehicles, and if it's true what he's saying, if you're going to replace a human
04:40operator in a commercial vehicle, where does that person go? Where has that job gone? And I'm all
04:46for efficiencies. I don't think, I don't want you to think that we are not for efficiencies. I'm
04:51familiar with the ILA agreement on the East Coast. I sit on the Port Authority Board at the Massachusetts
04:56Port Authority, which you know as well. But there's efficiencies built in there, but there's
05:02also job protections as a result of implementation of this technology, which further gives credibility
05:09on when you sit down and negotiate a collective bargain agreement. You can embrace the technology
05:14and also the efficiencies, but you also can protect and create new jobs as a result of this technology.
05:22So I think second priority would be upon implementation, you create opportunities and jobs as a result of
05:28this technology. Thank you. Okay, final question, Mr. Spear. The Texas Department of Public Safety
05:33has reported that you can buy a Mexican CDL for as little as $2,500. Fraudulent licenses mean we don't
05:41know if these drivers are qualified to be on the road. What should Congress do to make sure that only
05:47qualified, properly vetted drivers are operating on our roads? Well, I think you're absolutely right,
05:53and it is happening, and it's a big problem. We talked about English language proficiency,
05:58making certain that they can communicate in the English language. That's critical.
06:03People out there taking advantage of B1 drivers coming in, drop a load. They're using them for weeks
06:07to move freight in the United States. That's illegal. It's called cabotage.
06:11You can buy illegal CDLs, you know, on the corner. This is not uncommon. We need federal
06:19enforcement. We need to work with state enforcement and local to understand those credentials and take
06:24these drivers off the road. They have no business being out there. We've seen foreign drivers that
06:29don't speak English that are having no insurance whatsoever and operating shoddy equipment out there.
06:35That's the kind of riffraff we need to get out. That's not the image any of us want.
06:39Okay, we're very proud of our industries and what we do, but that kind of thing happens and there's
06:44an accident. That's not a reflection of our efforts. We need good coordination with our federal
06:50regulators to ensure that these folks are taken off the road. Thank you. Okay, I'm going to recognize
06:55Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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