At tonight's House Rules Committee hearing, Rep. James McGovern (D-MA) and Rep. Austin Scott (R-GA) sparred over McGovern's amendment on the Epstein files.
00:00An Empowerment Control Act of 1974 that Congress set up more than half a century ago
00:07allows for this process of enacting rescissions of funds to be carried out.
00:13This is the same process that has played out in previous Congresses.
00:18It's nothing new.
00:20Yes, wasteful spending does occur in Washington.
00:23The American people know this to be true, and they want to see immediate change.
00:30Republicans in the People's House are the ones who are orchestrating that change
00:33with the rescissions package and rescissions packages to come.
00:39Americans want their tax dollars to be spent prudently and not chucked carelessly at things
00:45that do not align with their values and their own fiscal sensibilities.
00:51This is not a hard concept to grasp.
00:55Republicans understand it quite well, believe me.
00:58It's time that we get the rescissions package across the finish line and secure another
01:04significant win for the American people.
01:07They're looking to us to act.
01:09With that, I look forward to today's discussion, and I now yield to the ranking member, Mr. McGovern,
01:15for any comments he wishes to make.
01:17Well, thank you, Madam Chair.
01:18And before I go to my opening remarks, I just have a question.
01:22So I've been following the media reports all day today as we've been awaiting this meeting today.
01:30And it's been reported that many of the Republicans on the Rules Committee are concerned about the fact that the Jeffrey Epstein issue is not going away.
01:43And we had some reporting earlier from Jake Sherman at Punchbowl that Speaker Mike Johnson and his leadership team were discussing offering an Epstein-related resolution to try to quell the furor of members of the House Rules Committee.
01:58Then there's another report that just came out that says that there may be two bills that are being brought before the Rules Committee.
02:07You know, one on the rescissions, the rule in the rescissions package, and then a separate rule on Epstein.
02:13But we weren't noticed about the second rule.
02:17And so I was wondering if the chair could clarify the situation and maybe share with us the language on the Epstein matter.
02:28Is it binding?
02:29Is it not?
02:29Is it?
02:30I mean, so I yield to the chair if she could help enlighten us here.
02:35Well, as I often do, I'm concerned about the framing of your question, saying there's a furor among the Rules Committee members.
02:48I'm reading from the press.
02:49From the press.
02:50Oh, OK.
02:51I wasn't sure.
02:53As I said, I question the press often for the way the press people characterize things.
02:59And I don't know about the furor among the members of the committee.
03:06We'll have some time as the meeting goes on for motions.
03:12So we'll be dealing with that later.
03:16So I guess my request was whether you could share with us the language of, I mean, we're going to offer a motion.
03:25And I can tell you right now it's going to be the kind of massive bill.
03:30But I think, you know, this is an important matter, whether the chair would share with us the language so that we would have some understanding of what we're talking about here today.
03:43Well, we'll look forward to getting your motion and then we'll respond.
03:48Yeah, OK.
03:48Well, we're going to require some time to be able to digest whatever it is.
03:53Because, and again, in defense of the reporting that there was a furor.
03:57I mean, it is 6 o'clock and we thought we would be meeting early this morning.
04:01So clearly there's been some angst amongst Republican members of this committee.
04:07But let me.
04:07Don't flatter yourself too much.
04:09There's not a whole lot of angst over here.
04:10Yeah, well, it's curious that we're meeting at 6 o'clock.
04:15We're looking forward to passing the rescission package, I can tell you that.
04:19Yeah, yeah, yeah.
04:20So let me, let me, let me, my opening statement here, Madam Chair.
04:23I don't, what am I even supposed to say at this point?
04:27The way the Republican leadership is running this place is astonishingly bad.
04:33I mean, the incompetence is stunning.
04:36Trump said Republicans would pass a crypto rule in the morning yesterday.
04:40But instead, you didn't pass it until midnight.
04:43Republicans held the vote open for nine hours and 45 minutes, the longest vote in history,
04:51nearly 10 hours for what was supposed to be a five-minute vote.
04:55I mean, how many minutes are in five minutes?
05:00Is that something Republicans are proud of?
05:02Holding a vote open for 10 hours so you can buy off the most extreme elements of your conference?
05:07And a nearly 10-hour vote is just the tip of the iceberg this week.
05:13Committee meetings notice before you even know what you're meeting about.
05:17Then postpone because your leadership is in some back room making God knows what secret deals.
05:23And another failed rule.
05:25How many times have we held rules committee hearings only to watch it all crash and burn on the House floor?
05:31Four. Six failed rules.
05:34Six failed rules under Speaker Mike Johnson alone.
05:37And nine since Republicans took the majority.
05:40You know how many rules failed when I was chair of this committee?
05:43Zero.
05:44You know how many rules failed under Speaker Nancy Pelosi?
05:47Also zero.
05:49I mean, this is aggravating to me because you are wasting our time.
05:53You guys are getting your whip counts from live floor votes.
05:56That's embarrassing.
05:58And it's disrespectful to us, to the process, and most of all to the people we represent.
06:03There are real crises demanding our attention, and you're wasting time playing petty games and arguing amongst yourselves.
06:10Honestly, if you were in the minority and watching this unfold, what would you say?
06:16How would you defend this unserious process?
06:19And I think we all know the answer.
06:20You would say it's embarrassing, and you would call us incompetent.
06:24And while we talk about your rescissions package, please spare us the lectures about cutting spending when this majority just added $4 trillion to the debt so you could give bigger tax breaks to billionaires.
06:36The big, ugly bill you passed costs 450 times what is being saved with these rescissions.
06:43You passed your tax breaks for billionaires, and now you're pretending to pay for them.
06:47That's all this is.
06:48This bill slashes funding for public broadcasting.
06:52It guts global health programs.
06:54It undermines foreign aid, including to Ukraine.
06:57Actually, none of you even know what's fully in this.
07:00You know, we've seen the top lines, but even Republican senators are warning we won't understand the consequences until the damage is done.
07:08Make no mistake, Madam Chair, democracy is messy, but this is not the give and take of messy democracy.
07:15This is a dumpster fire.
07:17This is a tug of war between Republican incompetence and Republican extremism.
07:22And sadly, no matter which side wins, the American people lose.
07:28And finally, finally, earlier this week, Madam Chair, I gave everyone on this committee a chance to go on record about releasing files related to Jeffrey Epstein.
07:39It was an up or down, yay or nay vote on a very simple amendment that says the Department of Justice must preserve and release all the files.
07:48That's it.
07:48And shockingly, all but one of you voted against releasing those files.
07:54The speaker put out a statement, and I got to love this.
07:57He put out a statement calling it an obscure stunt.
08:01I didn't realize offering amendments was obscure.
08:04I'm pretty sure we do that all the time.
08:06And when it comes to a stunt, nothing in my amendment would have prevented your crypto bills from moving forward.
08:13My amendment simply said that in addition to the crypto bills, we're also going to have a vote on releasing the Epstein files.
08:20And if it was such a stunt, why did Mr. Norman, one of the most conservative members of this committee, vote with us?
08:27I commend him for doing what was right, especially as President Trump has suddenly decided that this whole thing is a hoax,
08:34that the files don't exist, and that the people who believe this stuff are, quote, weaklings.
08:40But I frankly don't get why the rest of you voted no.
08:44Why would anyone vote against releasing files that we've been told, by the way, by the president, by your attorney general,
08:52by your director of the FBI, by his deputy director?
08:56We have been told by them that these files show the identities of those who knew that Jeffrey Epstein was sexually abusing children.
09:05So I hope all of you had a chance to consult your constituents and your conscience,
09:10and I hope that you will vote with us when I again offer a simple amendment to release the files.
09:16Because either one of two things is true.
09:18Either one of two things is true.
09:20Either there's nothing here, and Trump made all this up and conned you guys into believing it.
09:27In that case, you know, why would you vote against releasing files that don't exist?
09:31Or there are files, and you guys want to keep them hidden because you're afraid of what's in them.
09:37Which is it?
09:38Which is it?
09:39And with that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
09:41Thank you, Mr. McGovern.
09:46Madam Chair.
09:46Mr. Scott.
09:47I would just like to say I look forward to an honest, not a political debate on the issue of the Epstein files.
09:55But when you look at the definition of all the files, all the files would include a list of the victims of the Epstein crimes.
10:04And so I look forward to the debate.
10:06Now, you had your time.
10:08You put legislation in at 3.56 when the Rules Committee meets at 4, and we were already in this room when you signed it and put it in.
10:20It was a political stunt.
10:21That's all it was, and we're going to give you a solution to it.
10:23And if you read the amendment, Mr. Scott, you would realize that there are exceptions to protect the victims of these crimes.
10:32And by the way, our language has been...
10:34No, there are not.
10:35There are not.
10:36In the Massey County Bill, there are.
10:39That is not what you offered.
10:40That is not what you offered.
10:41You set all the files, and we have a responsibility to protect the victims.
10:45Mr. Scott.
10:45And we know where you are.
10:46Yeah, we know where you are, Mr. Heidi.
10:48You're the party of child victims.
10:49That's why you opened the border.
10:51That's why you opened the border.
10:52How many children got raped coming across that border because of what the Democratic Party did?
10:56Who voted to cover up the facts.
10:58Okay.
11:00We have a hearing here, and we're going to follow our regular order.
11:08Thank you very much.
11:10It would be better, Mr. Norman, if we just moved on and we came to you during the questioning.
11:24Would you indulge me?
11:27Would you indulge me?
11:28Thank you, Mr. Norman.
11:29I appreciate it.
11:31Thank you very much.
11:33Without objection, any prepared statements our witnesses may have will be included in the record.
