00:00You sure you wouldn't rather do this someplace else?
00:08Those are the footnotes.
00:10The pitch pipe lives in the room next door and they practice there sometimes.
00:14You get used to it. It's kind of nice.
00:16I just meant, uh...
00:19If I can avoid it, I'd rather not be alone with a young woman in her dorm room.
00:22You want witnesses in case I say you forced yourself on me.
00:25No, no.
00:26Dawn.
00:27Yeah?
00:28I was raped.
00:29I wasn't worried if I...
00:30I was raped.
00:31I went to a party at one of the eating clubs.
00:34I drank too much tequila.
00:35There was molly, there was coke, there were mushrooms and I took anything that was put in front of me.
00:40I wound up in a bathroom throwing up and then passing out and the next thing I knew two guys were helping me into a bedroom.
00:46They told me I needed to lie down.
00:49When we got in there, they took my clothes off and they took turns raping me.
00:54And the next day you called the police?
00:55City police, campus police, and the DA's office.
00:56I know who the two guys are and I know where they lived.
01:09That should be the easiest arrest they're ever gonna make.
01:11Nobody pursued it.
01:12The kind of rape you're talking about is difficult and usually impossible to prove.
01:15It's not a kind of rape.
01:16Sure.
01:23How did you find me?
01:25The original email?
01:26Yeah.
01:28Just some detective work.
01:29I really wanna know.
01:31Well, on the webpage there's a bio.
01:34You say you're a third year psych major and later you say you live across from Dillon Gym and one of these days you're gonna start working out.
01:42You also wrote that you love the Fat Lady.
01:44Right.
01:45I got a list of all female psych majors on campus and cross-referenced it with students living in the upperclassmen dorms across from the gym which brought me to Kyler Hall.
01:52Wow.
01:53I asked some people in my office if they knew the band The Fat Lady.
01:56Really?
01:57And a Princeton grad laughed and said...
01:59It's a sandwich.
02:00It is the most popular sandwich not on the menu at Hoagie Haven.
02:04So we went to Costa, one of the managers at Hoagie Haven with pictures of the four female psych majors living at Kyler Hall and asked him if any were regular customers.
02:11He pointed at your picture and said, that's my girl Mary.
02:14That's a lot of detective work.
02:16That's old school.
02:17I was trying to impress my boss.
02:20My boss's boss.
02:21Did it work?
02:22He wants you in the studio along with Jeff.
02:24At the same time.
02:29Elliot Hirsch would be moderating.
02:31I guess you'd call it.
02:32It's very...
02:33Promotable.
02:34Bring a lot of new viewers to my show.
02:36A lot of younger viewers who drive a lot of internet traffic.
02:39And I'd score some points at work.
02:41And you're here for a pre-interview.
02:43I'm here to beg you not to do it.
02:48So do I. I've spoken to him.
02:50He denied it?
02:51Yeah.
02:53What did he say happened?
02:56You don't want to hear it.
02:58Yes, I do.
02:59It's upsetting.
03:00I have a new standard for what upsets me.
03:02He said it was consensual?
03:04Yeah.
03:05How can it be consensual if one of the consenting parties isn't conscious?
03:08It can't be.
03:10So what did he say?
03:11Mary, he says you said, fuck me, fuck me, fuck me. Get two guys in here who will fuck me.
03:15Yeah, that sounds like me.
03:18And he's changing his story a little.
03:20That's something that would come out in a trial.
03:22There's not going to be a trial.
03:24There's not going to be an arrest.
03:25And there's not going to be an investigation.
03:27Mine's going to be one of the 700,000 untested rape kits.
03:30So I started this website.
03:33Do you know who Sloane Sabath is?
03:35Sure.
03:36She's my girlfriend.
03:37Well done.
03:38About, I don't know, a year and a half ago, she was dating this guy and they broke up and he was pissed.
03:44She'd post for him some naked pictures and he posted them on a site called revengeporn.com.
03:48I remember.
03:49What did she do?
03:50She broke his jaw, but I'm not recommending that.
03:53This isn't revenge.
03:54It's a warning.
03:55It's a public service.
03:56Do not go on a date with these guys.
03:58Do not go to a party with these guys.
04:00Do not give these guys a job ever.
04:01Wait, they're avoiding jail and you think I'm being too harsh?
04:04Don't you think there's a chance that somebody's going to use this site as revenge?
04:07That somebody's going to make up a story and ruin a kid's life?
04:09Jeff got into Stanford Medical School.
04:11Not anymore.
04:12There were NFL teams looking at Brandon.
04:14Not anymore.
04:15Yeah, you can imagine how sad that makes me.
04:16Don't you think there's a chance that somebody, a woman who feels rejected...
04:19Yeah, bitches be bitches.
04:20I get it.
04:21I'm just saying that if a grown man who works in arbitrage at one of the biggest banks in the world can post naked pictures of his ex on revengeporn.com...
04:27Yes, I think there's a chance.
04:29And I've weighed the cost benefit.
04:31What would you have if another girl got raped because I didn't say anything?
04:34Or because someone else didn't say anything?
04:36I know.
04:37You don't know.
04:38And you're right about that too.
04:39Then what am I wrong about?
04:45What am I wrong about?
04:50Jesus Christ, Jen.
04:52The law is plainly failing rape victims. That must be obvious to you.
04:58It is, but in fairness, the law wasn't built to serve victims.
05:01In fairness?
05:02I know.
05:06Do you believe me?
05:09Do I believe you? Of course I do.
05:10Seriously.
05:11I'm not here on a fact-finding mission.
05:12I'm just curious. Be really honest.
05:14Okay.
05:18I've heard two competing stories.
05:19One from a very credible woman who, as far as I can see, has no reason to lie.
05:23The other from a guy I judge to be a little sketchy who has every reason to lie.
05:26And I am...
05:28I'm obligated to believe this sketchy guy.
05:31This isn't a courtroom. You're not legally obligated to presume innocence.
05:35I believe I'm morally obligated.
05:37You know, you're a good guy, but do people tell you a lot that your head's up your ass?
05:40They do. And I absolutely allow for that possibility.
05:43I'm the guy who goes around saying O.J. is not guilty because a jury said so.
05:48I'm not gonna get a jury.
05:50I know. And I can imagine how frustrating...
05:52No, you can't imagine.
05:55No, I can't.
05:56But it is a huge, dangerous, scary as shit mistake to convene your own trial in front of a television audience.
06:06Where there's no due process, no lawyers, no discovery, no rules of procedure, no decisions on admissible evidence,
06:13threat of perjury, confrontation of witnesses, or any of the things we do to ensure...
06:16To ensure that rapists go to Stanford Medical School.
06:18To ensure an innocent person isn't destroyed.
06:21The law can acquit. The internet never will.
06:23The internet is used for vigilantism every day.
06:26But this is a whole new level, and if we go there, we're truly fucked.
06:29I'm not a vigilante.
06:31Do you want to live in a world where...
06:32Do you want to hear the advice I get?
06:36I mean, this is real advice. In pamphlets.
06:40Say you have a boyfriend.
06:42Wear a wedding ring.
06:44I'm supposed to protect myself from a man by pretending I'm the property of another man.
06:50And, of course, there's no shortage of good fashion advice.
06:53Mary.
06:54When you came in here, you wanted to go to a public place because you were scared I'd cry rape.
07:01I'm scared of getting raped.
07:04I'm scared all the time.
07:08All the time.
07:09So you know what my sight does?
07:14It scares you.
07:16It scares the living shit out of any guy who thinks even once about putting his hands on someone without an invitation.
07:24You're right to name your attacker.
07:29You may even be obligated to.
07:34But the sight is going to clobber an innocent person, and there is no chance that it won't.
07:39And if you face off with the guy you've accused on TV, it is going to be a lawless food fight with irreversible, irretrievable consequences.
07:47Teams will be formed, you will be slut-shamed, and you won't get the justice you're looking for.
07:54That's why I'm asking you to refuse.
07:58I don't understand why you need me to refuse.
08:00It's your show.
08:01Why don't you just not do it?
08:03I've been overruled.
08:04It's a promotable story that'll bring in a younger audience.
