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FourFourTwo sat down with Manchester City star, and 2024 Ballon d'Or winner Rodri to discuss how he reads the game and why he does what he does on the pitch. Speaking to Adam Clery, he explains what it's like when a defender 'inverts' into midfield, how he balances defence with attack, and why he might even end up as a striker one day...
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00:00Hello, everybody. Welcome to the 442 YouTube channel. And if you think you are more excited
00:14than I am today, you are wrong. We are joined by Rodri. Between us, four Premier League titles,
00:21one FA Cup, one Champions League, one European Championship, one Ballon d'Or,
00:26and one North East Under-15s Counties Cup 2003. We've done all right between us.
00:31First question, what does this mean to you? Like, congratulations, first of all,
00:37but to win an honour like this at this stage of your career, how does that feel?
00:40Well, I mean, I cannot explain, you know, with words. It means a lot, you know, to me, my family,
00:47also my country. Not only because of me, the players, as we said before, who didn't want it,
00:53you know. But yeah, I think it's a consequence of the award heart and winning collectively
00:59with the team and the years we've had of the success of my team and the national team.
01:05We were just talking before about sort of how it's seen as slightly unusual for a player in
01:08your position to win an award like that. Now, obviously, no two midfielders are ever really
01:12the same. Chris called you a defence midfielder, you called yourself a holding midfielder. There's
01:17so many different ways of playing the role. What I'd love to know, this might be a really
01:21big question, but how do you see your game? Like, what is Rodri to Rodri?
01:25What is Rodri to Rodri? Well, I think it depends, of course, on the team you play, but I think
01:35my role is very similar in my club and my national team. But I think you're kind of the guy who
01:40ensures that everything has to work, you know, like you don't have a specific thing to do.
01:47You just have lots of things to do. Maybe your role is different from one day to another in
01:53the sense that things change depending on the team you face. And you have to make sure
01:59the team works, you know, and it's about leadership, it's about managing, it's about understanding
02:04the game, you know, and I think it's something I've been growing a lot all these years, yeah.
02:09I think it's interesting you said it varies from sort of game to game because whether it's
02:12for Man City or the national side, you're so critical to that first phase of play, but
02:17obviously that can be so different between oppositions. Like, some games will give you lots
02:20of space, some games will be very aggressive. How much of that is
02:23down to you to determine in the match, like you to basically make the call on the pitch,
02:28I'm going to take this position or offer this situation?
02:31I cannot tell you, like, it's this, it's just how you, you know, you smell the game,
02:37how you feel, you know, when you find the spaces. Every game is different, you know, and
02:43trying, understanding that we have a way of playing and understanding that I'm in a team
02:49that is very tactical and everyone knows what to do and in that way it's easier. But I, let's
02:57say, have like a bigger role in that sense, in tactics sense, you know, like maybe Phil is
03:04worried about being positioned in here, but maybe after 20 minutes he's there, you know,
03:09my work is to make Phil go there because there is the real space, you know. And this is the way it
03:16works for a midfielder.
03:17You mentioned, I presume that's Phil Foden that you're referring to, yeah, obviously you've had so
03:21many different partners in the midfield. There's been a real trend over the last two years of
03:25defenders now stepping up to sort of join midfielders in there. We spoke to quite a few
03:30defenders about how they make that adaptation, how they adapt to the role, but I was kind of
03:33curious from the other side, like, is it different for you being a midfielder and having a defender
03:39in there? Do you have to adjust your game to sort of know that's not maybe their natural position?
03:42I think it's more difficult to do what, for example, Stones have done or Cancelo in the past
03:48or Akanji sometimes when they play that role. I think when we move back as a centre-back, we're
03:56used to look 360, you know, and be surrounded by players. And when you play centre-back, you just have
04:02players on front, you know, you have no worry about your back. And with the ball, it's more chill, you
04:08know, I speak with the centre-back, it's like, your job with the ball is so easy, so easy. Without the
04:14ball it's different, you know, without the ball it's so key, it's demanding the position and it's very
04:19tricky. But, you know, yeah, I think that process is more easy in my way than their way.
04:25Do they agree with you when you tell them their jobs? I think so, yeah, I think they might because
04:29when they play midfielders, they have to look, you know, 360, play one-two touch, you know, switch off,
04:36defence, attack, I think it's the most complete part in the field, you know.
04:40Do you think that makes your job different when you're in there with them? Like, let's say you
04:43were in with sort of a more natural midfielder, will you be looking out for them a little bit more
04:47or will you just sort of be trusting them to do their job? I trust, I trust in the way. I think
04:54of course they will look at me when they play that role and the same way I remember in the World Cup
05:00before I know I'm going to play there. As a centre-back, I watch clips of centre-backs,
05:06how they behave, how they look at each other, you know, the line, everything. You have to look at
05:11the people that really know that role, you know.
05:14Not looking for sort of specific names here, because I'm sure you couldn't give us them,
05:19but is there a specific kind of player you like to be in the middle with? Like, if you're being
05:23joined by somebody, would you prefer it to somebody, say, really athletic, who covered the ground,
05:27someone who is technically great, so you can trust them with the ball in a tight situation? Do you have
05:31a preferred kind of partner?
05:32Yeah, of course. I would say the same. The best partner is the one that defends and helps you a
05:39lot and is so good and tactical with the ball. Normally, what you find is players that are very
05:47technical, they don't defend much or not good at defending and the opposite, you know. I think the
05:52balance is for me the best, you know. But if you ask me that I'm a defensive midfielder, I normally
05:59want a guy that can help you, you know, when I'm not in the zone or whatever.
06:04What, is there any specific part of your game that you really have had to work to develop?
06:07Because obviously you get into an age now where you're, I mean, you'll never stop improving,
06:11you'll never stop wanting to develop, but you've come a long way in sort of your journey as a
06:15footballer. What have been the areas that you've had to really work on, whether it's through coaching
06:19or just by yourself? Yeah, I think one was very, very key. I remember my first year at City,
06:27um, I was a, I was a player that I used to jump a lot, you know, you know, go and press, yeah,
06:34forward, forward and, and sometimes it's good, but many of them is not good because if, if they play
06:41in your bag, you, your, the team is like naked, you know, you have to defend 70 meters behind and
06:47it's something I really, really improve and that's identify when to go, when to stay, you know, and
06:53that role for me is the most important, the balance, that gives you the balance, you know,
06:57in the moment you lose that position, that midfielder, you lose the, the heart of the team
07:03and most of the goals, I don't know how the statistics, but most of the goals come in,
07:09in the central area, you know, so if you're there, it's more difficult for them to, to find a way.
07:15Is that something a particular coach has worked on with you or is that something you identified yourself
07:18that you need? No, no, no, they, they pop, pop, pop, pop, with clips, with videos, you see, you're going
07:25to the side, why you go to the side, you just protect this, you know, uh, yeah, it's very, very
07:31demanding and in the, by the time they saw I got it, they just start, you know, giving me that freedom,
07:39but until that it was like the first year, very strict. This might sound a really silly question
07:44because we're sitting in either side of the Ballon d'Or, but is there any part of your game
07:49right now you really do want to still improve anything you think that you'd like to refine
07:53that in the next year or two? Yeah, yeah, I think, um, I think I have a massive, uh,
08:00many parts of my game that can be improved, uh, many, many of them, uh, most of them in terms of, uh,
08:07the head sometimes, uh, be more cold, uh, not that passionate, um, uh, try to be a better leader
08:16every day, uh, that role, uh, and in terms of football, thinking on football, yeah, of course,
08:23100%, um, the last step, for example, is something I, I, I paid a lot of attention the last year,
08:29you know, to, to be more involved in goals as is, you know, be more this decisive in this sense,
08:35but, uh, maybe, I don't know, I control more when I'm tired or exhausted, uh, don't move that much,
08:42try to stay, yeah, uh, things, many things to improve, yeah. I think it's really interesting
08:47you talked about the sort of mental side of it there, especially when you're sort of attacking.
08:50With a player in your position, this is something I've always wondered about,
08:53if you're in the final third, so, you know, the responsibilities of the defense maybe aren't
08:57quite as pressing, how much of your sort of brain power goes towards helping with the attack
09:02and taking up a position where you could help versus watching out for potentially losing the
09:07ball and being in the right position if that happens. Well, it is, it's that balance what gives you
09:12if you're good or not, because if you are too worried about counter-attacks, you don't help the
09:16team attacking. If you are too overconfident of attacking, you can be punished. It's trying to
09:21find the balance and being very safe, you know, when the ball goes through you in those situations
09:26where all the players are in front of you, you have to be very safe, you know. But in the same
09:31time, you cannot be lazy with the ball and safe. You have to, you know, find the key pass, risky
09:37sometimes. It's a matter of identifying the moment, you know. Is that something that you sort of have
09:42to decide yourself in the moment or is that something that's really coached? Yeah, no, it's something,
09:47it's very difficult to coach this. It's a matter of feeling when you, when you see the movement,
09:52when you see the line, when you see it's time to keep the ball, when it's time to accelerate. It's
09:57something they cannot teach you, you know. It's something you can see in other players. That's,
10:03that's true. I thought it was really interesting. Chris touched upon the goal he scored in the
10:06Champions League final. So my turn, my perspective of that game from watching it was that it was,
10:11it had sort of quite a good handle on sort of what you were going to do and they were sort of,
10:15they were quite well disciplined and making it very difficult. And it was you that popped up with
10:19the goal. And watching it back, there's a huge, huge amount of space on the edge of that box.
10:24And I've always wondered, was that something you prepared for? Because it seems almost a deliberate
10:29rush of all the players to the near post to leave that space. Did you sort of know that was going
10:33to happen or was that to make sense? No, no, I didn't know that was going to happen. It's a matter of
10:38seconds. I remember following the game in that chance and the ball just appeared there. But I think I
10:47was one second early than everyone and I made two, three steps before. You had quite a lot of ground.
10:52Yeah. Yeah, quite a lot of ground. Because when Manu gives the ball and I think I'm behind him,
10:58you know, and he was very far from the, from the central area. So yeah, I think I remember I did
11:03like two, three steps because I felt that maybe something could happen there. But yeah, when I see
11:09the ball there, I was like... I was going to say, what was going through your head when you sort of,
11:13because it must be a snap second decision. Yeah, it was second. Because if you overcommit to that
11:17and you don't get there, that's huge, you just took a huge amount of trouble.
11:20I think this is something that I admire from the number nines. It's, it's that little fraction
11:28of second when they are alone, but maybe the centre-back is looking the ball and he's making
11:33one step and that's what makes him have the space, you know. It's something I admire a lot because we
11:39don't have that feeling of where the ball is going to come, you know. They are the best in that.
11:43But yeah, I remember that moment when, when the ball came to me, you have one, two seconds to think
11:48what to do with that ball, you know. And I always say that I always, I first think to shoot strong
11:54the ball, but at the end I was like, no, you only have one. Just put it to the corner and yeah,
11:58definitely it was good. Does this mean we could see you getting a run as a centre-forward
12:01at some point if that's... Imagine, not with my speed, not with my speed, but more or less,
12:07because now the way we play, most of the times we play in the central, in the frontal area,
12:14so sometimes we are at number 10. How do you think your game will change over the next couple of
12:18years? Do you think, because you said before about how you want to work on the mental side of things,
12:21do you think you'll become more, I don't want to say sort of like stationary, but be better just sort of?
12:26It's something I speak a lot with my friends and I ask them, I have a really
12:33confident opinion on what is going to behave and I think it's very, it's going to be very
12:37similar to handball. You know, handball, they stay all over the area, just blocking,
12:45they don't try to go man-mark, you know, or try to stay, they're just there and I think we see,
12:51in my opinion, it's a mess, but we see a lot of now when the team feels that on paper is maybe worse
12:59than the other, so defensive, you know, and this makes maybe 11 players almost in the box and I
13:07think that's the new football. Contra-attack, the team that is defending and the team that is kind
13:15trying to open them, very spread. I think this is how we see football in the next years.
13:20I think we see that actually quite a lot in sort of the big clashes between the big teams,
13:23because obviously the attacking threat is so big, we see a lot of sort of, even from like the very
13:27top teams in the Premier League, they'll go sort of quite with a compact mid-block against each other
13:32and it kind of makes certainly the centre of the pick very difficult to play through and to play in.
13:36You think that's because we're going to see that pretty much constantly now?
13:39I think so, I think so. I think it's a big indicative, that between two big teams, you see when
13:47you defend, you defend very back, because normally I punish you, I punish you, I punish you, I punish you,
13:55and maybe the game is more open, but now you're seeing that it doesn't matter if the level of
13:59the two teams are similar, when you defend you go back and when you attack you spread, so I don't know.
14:06Cagey is the word we use for that, a bit sort of like reluctant to go, you very rarely now see
14:12sort of open basketball games, people call it. I suppose that's actually a good way to analyse it,
14:16trying to avoid a basketball game, it becomes a handball. That's why I enjoy most of the games
14:21we play against Liverpool, it's great because it's like, I don't care, I want to punish you,
14:28and we have the same feeling, I don't care, I want to punish you, and they are not conservative,
14:33they go with the mentality, and once you're in the pitch, you enjoy those moments, it's the same
14:42game of every, you know. The crowd must be so different as well. One thing we always try and
14:46ask is, has there been a team in the last few years that you've played against, that maybe people
14:51wouldn't have expected to be a huge challenge for either Spain or Manchester City, but who really
14:54surprised you with sort of how good they were and how intelligent their football was? Not surprised,
15:00but there's some teams that, well, you don't know, you know, but they're the worst for you.
15:07And for example, Tottenham was for us. Especially when Kane was in it, and Son and the other one,
15:16Moura, whatever, because they have the perfect way to play against us. And I remember that game in
15:25Tottenham Stadium was stiffy, well, I never won. I was going to say, which one? Last year,
15:30the first time, but it was like, why? Why is it so tricky? And you cannot understand, but yeah,
15:36sometimes it's like this. Chris already asked you, I was going to leave this question off,
15:39but you've sort of touched upon it a little bit. You said you wouldn't know, you don't want to plan
15:43too far ahead in terms of thinking about being a coach or a manager. It's clear that, like, you think
15:47about this in the way that a coach or manager would. Is that really not something you're
15:50considering at this point? Have you got even like half an eye on doing it? Well, imagine right now,
15:56not right now, but you've got to start somewhere. No, I don't know. I think it, I think what I see is
16:03as a footballer, as a coach, you lose a lot of time in terms of travels and
16:09and coaches and stuff, they have the same life of players without playing, you know, and this is
16:15something that makes me, you know, a bit, it's not because I don't like coaching, it's the secret
16:21circumstances of being a coach. So, I don't know, maybe I retire, it's like I want to coach or maybe
16:27not, I don't know. Roger, thank you so much for joining. Thank you very much. Congratulations again.
16:30Thank you very much.
16:31Well, there you go. Actually, do you know what's really mad about that is I will go home for
16:37Christmas and both of my parents will still ask when I'm getting a real job. But anyway,
16:43obviously, I wasn't going to make the actual Ballon d'Or winner sit there while I went through
16:47the whole, please like and subscribe to the channel stuff. So, please like the video and
16:53subscribe to the channel. Because if you have watched us before, you'll have heard me say that
16:57when people subscribe and that number grows, we get to go and do loads of cool things. And that,
17:02that is the cool things I have been talking about. So, if you are a subscriber already,
17:07you literally made that happen. Like, genuinely, because of all of you lot, when we ring up the
17:12actual best football player in the world and say, would you like to come on the channel and do a
17:16little video? He says, yes, and not, who are you? How did you get this number? Anyway, though,
17:21I digress. You can get me across all the social medias at Adam Cleary, C-L-E-R-Y. I would dearly
17:25love to hear what you thought about that interview and you can put it in the comment section down below
17:29or you can tell me directly. And if you would like to share that video around, that is something that
17:35greases the wheels of content and may help us do something very cool like that in the future
17:39again. But also, if you'd like to hear more from Roger, then why not pick up the brand new awards
17:44issue of 442, in which he is not only the video interview, but he's our cover star as well. We
17:50did a whole other interview with him about Man City, about the Ballon d'Or, about all the stuff.
17:55You would expect normal people to ask him if it comes in this bag and is really, is that the cover?
18:00No? Where is it? Really pretty. And you get this calendar too, apparently. Anyway,
18:05yes, that's it. That's the Roger interview. That's probably the greatest thing I've done in
18:10my entire career so far. Thank you very much for watching. Literally love every single one of you
18:15you very dearly. Goodbye.
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