'Why Don't You Answer My Question?': Dan Sullivan & Secretary John Phelan Get Into Spat Over Navy Ships

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During a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing last month, Sen. Dan Sullivan (R-AK) asked Navy Secretary John Phelan about the Navy's shipbuilding targets and budget.

Transcript

00:00Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:02Mr. Secretary, you don't have a lot of experience working with this committee,

00:05so I'd like to start with some basics. What does Article 1, Section 8,

00:10Clause 13 of the Constitution say?

00:15I don't know. Why don't you tell me, Senator?

00:17It grants the Congress the power to, quote, provide and maintain a Navy.

00:22And Clause 12 grants Congress the power to raise an army.

00:27Do you know why the Founding Fathers had a difference between our constitutional responsibilities?

00:34It's a big difference. Raise an army, provide and maintain a Navy. Do you know why?

00:39I think I do, Senator, but why don't you give me the history lesson you seem to want to do today.

00:45Why don't you answer my question, Mr. Secretary?

00:50Do you want to answer the question?

00:53I don't.

00:53It gives the Congress a longer-term view of building ships, developing infrastructure,

01:06supporting a much more permanent naval force than with the Army.

01:11Do you know which section of the Constitution mentions the Secretary of the Navy?

01:15I do not, Senator. Why don't you go ahead?

01:21Not mentioned in this. It's not mentioned in the Constitution.

01:24Let me provide a hypothetical.

01:26Congress passes a law, had many hearings on it.

01:30The President signs it.

01:32Your experts come to you and say it's not one of your top priorities.

01:37What is your obligation to the law, Constitution, this body with regard to the law?

01:41I'm not sure what this is accomplishing, Senator, but at the end of the day, I follow the laws as they're given to me.

02:08Let me provide a real-world example in that regard.

02:13How about we talk about our call yesterday?

02:16We had hearings.

02:17We had hearings.

02:18We had hearings to get to 31 amphibs in the law.

02:25Navy didn't like it.

02:26SECNAV didn't like it.

02:27The Marines did like it.

02:29We passed that, requiring 31 amphibs.

02:33The law actually says the naval combat forces of the Navy shall include not less than 11 operational aircraft carriers,

02:41not less than 31 operational amphibious war ships, of which not less than 10 shall be amphibious assault ships.

02:50Secretary of the Navy came here two years ago, and his shipbuilding plan, he didn't hit 31 amphibs at all.

02:57How do you think this committee responded to that?

03:02I'm sure they didn't like it.

03:04We didn't like it.

03:04Secretary, Senator Cain and I put forward legislation that actually said the next year in the NDAA, very bipartisan,

03:12if the Navy doesn't hit its 30-year shipbuilding plan that maintains 31 amphibs,

03:18that we would sequester half of the Navy's budget.

03:22So do we, do you think, and this is for all the gentlemen at the table,

03:27are we hitting 31 amphibs right now?

03:30Admiral, under the law?

03:33I believe we are.

03:34So my understanding is three of the 31, 32, are not mission capable, 14 are out of reporting and in shipyards.

03:44So is that, are we hitting 31 amphibs with those amphibs out of commission, essentially?

03:54By the letter of the law, we are in intent, we're not.

03:58Are those operational amphibious warships?

04:02That's the letter of the law.

04:03When they come out of maintenance, they will be.

04:06But 14 are in maintenance.

04:08So you, you think we're hitting that law right now?

04:13Yes, sir.

04:14General, do you think we're hitting that law?

04:16The, let me give you one, one of the ships on that list is the USS Tortuga.

04:22That's been in, it hasn't deployed since 2013.

04:26The Navy's counting that as meeting the law.

04:29Do you think that meets the, you were very involved in that 31 amphib.

04:33Law, do you think that that meets the letter of the law?

04:37Senator, I can't speak to what, what meets the letter and intent of the law.

04:41I only can speak to the requirement of a 3.0 amphibious ready group presence.

04:46One in Army off the east coast, one off the west coast, and a 31st.

04:49Are we close to that right now?

04:51Sir, we're not.

04:52Okay.

04:54What are the combatant commanders saying they want?

04:563.0 or higher?

04:57The combatant commanders are asking for 5.5.

05:00And I would note that that is unobtainium.

05:02And we're not even at 3.0 and that's a requirement you think we need?

05:08I believe as the amphibious requirements officer, 3.0 is the requirement.

05:11Yes, sir.

05:12Mr. Secretary, when we, when you went through your confirmation hearing, I highlighted a GAO report,

05:18had four recommendations, talked about the amphibious fleet readiness, which was in a state of disaster.

05:26Senator, have you, are you familiar with these four recommendations?

05:33Have you implemented any of them?

05:36And maybe you can get back to this committee with each of those recommendations and what you're doing to implement them from the GAO

05:43on getting our amphib fleet back in readiness.

05:48Take that for the record and come back to you, Senator.

05:50Thank you, Senator, here.

05:51Finally, General, what happens if we don't have 3.0 mu toe-to-toe capability?

06:00Senator, it increases risk for the combatant commander.

06:02That means there's not a Marine Expeditionary Unit off the coast of Africa.

06:06Should an embassy need to be evacuated or should Houthis need to be struck?

06:09It means there's not a Marine Expeditionary Unit prepared to go in the teeth of the PRC

06:15or prepared to operate in the South Com AOR.

06:17And are the Marines ready to be 3.0?

06:19We are, sir.

06:20We have the capacity and the capability.

06:22But the Navy isn't?

06:24The amphib readiness rate is currently, doesn't meet the 3.0 requirement.

06:29Admiral, do you know when we're going to get to that?

06:32I can tell you what we're at, 41%, and I want to get to 80%.

06:36I don't have an exact date when we're going to get there, but it has my full attention.

06:42Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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