- 7/3/2025
During "Forbes Newsroom", Rep. Mike Levin (D-CA) talked about what republicans thought about the Big Beautiful Bill behind closed doors.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hi, everyone. I'm Maggie McGrath, Senior Editor at Forbes. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries
00:09has engaged in a marathon speech Thursday morning to register his disapproval of the
00:15GOP budget bill. As of this interview, he is still speaking, seemingly going for Congress's
00:21record. When he finishes talking, the House will take up a vote. And joining us to discuss
00:28all of this is Congressman Mike Levin, a representative for California's 49th District.
00:34Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you, Maggie. Good to be with you.
00:38This is an ever-evolving situation, but it does seem like this bill will pass as soon as Hakeem
00:44Jeffries finishes speaking. What is your first message to your constituents after it passes?
00:52Well, the first thing I want to say is just thank you to everybody that has been in this fight with
00:57us, who has called senators and representatives all across the country. Know that we have done
01:04everything humanly possible, being in the minority party, to try to stand up and fight for our values,
01:09to fight for health care, to fight for food for people who need it, to fight for our seniors and
01:15our veterans and our children, to fight for lower energy bills, and ultimately to fight for fiscal
01:20sanity, where we're not blowing a massive hole in our nation's debt that we'll never be able to recover
01:26from. That being said, it's extraordinarily disappointing, Maggie, because behind closed
01:31doors, so many of my Republican colleagues have acknowledged what a bad piece of legislation
01:35this is, both the process and the final product. And they're voting for it despite that, basically
01:43to please one man, Donald Trump, as opposed to doing what they know to be right for their
01:49constituents back in their home states. So it's a sad day in my view. I think that this is the single
01:55worst piece of legislation I've ever seen in my career. You just said you think the deficit that
02:02this will cause will never be able to recover from. Did I hear that correctly? Well, we can't keep
02:07digging a hole. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a
02:12different result. Our debt is currently $36 trillion, and the interest we pay on it is over a trillion a
02:18year, which is more than we pay for the entire defense budget. This bill will increase that by
02:23all independent estimates anywhere between $3.3 and $4.5 trillion in the coming years. So both the
02:32debt and the interest on it will continue to increase. And look, the unfortunate reality is that
02:40Republicans talk a good game when it comes to the debt and deficits, but then their actions are really
02:46tax cuts for rich people. And we saw this under Trump 1.0. We saw it under George W. Bush. We saw
02:53it under George H. W. Bush, Ronald Reagan. The trickle-down economics don't trickle down. And this
02:58is another example where they really are putting in very regressive tax policies. According to the Penn
03:06Wharton model, so President Trump's alma mater, if you make more than $4.3 million a year,
03:13your tax bill will go down on average by $389,000. But if you make less than $51,000 a year,
03:19your tax bill will go up by $700. I mean, that's ridiculous. And moreover, the provisions in the
03:25bill that I actually think are good, you know, the concepts anyway are good, like no taxes on tips,
03:31no taxes on overtime, and the increased salt cap to $40,000, those are all temporary. Those basically
03:38run the duration of Trump's term, whereas the massive tax cuts for big corporations and the
03:44extremely wealthy, those are made permanent. So, you know, it really is a terrible piece of
03:50legislation where they know that they can't pay for it. They know it's going to be a massive,
03:56massive hole. So to try to fill some of that hole, what they're doing is going after the most vulnerable
04:01in our society, cutting 17 million people off their health insurance, cutting millions more off their
04:07food assistance, and decimating the clean energy provisions that are actually leading to lower
04:13energy bills and hundreds of thousands of jobs, predominantly in the red states. So none of it
04:20makes much sense to me other than they're trying to get something to Donald Trump's desk so he can
04:24claim a win when the reality is it's a disaster for the American people, unless you're incredibly wealthy.
04:30As you talk about people who will lose their health care access, for your own constituents who will
04:37lose access to Medicaid, what can you do for them? And have you been in touch with California Governor
04:44Gavin Newsom about helping this population? Yeah, we've been talking to the Governor and his team now
04:50for months as soon as we saw, you know, what they were proposing. What I'll tell you is that Medicaid is
04:56getting all the attention, but it's not just about Medicaid. So there are real cuts, you know, and
05:02they claim that it's just work requirements, but the Kaiser Family Foundation came out with an analysis
05:06that said 92% of the people who are going to be kicked off the rolls are people who are eligible for
05:12the care, but don't meet the new bureaucratic red tape. We know that when similar requirements were put
05:18in place in Arkansas and other states, that was, you know, exactly what happened. People who are eligible
05:24for the care who just did not fill out the paperwork properly or did not get through the bureaucratic
05:29hurdles. So you will have people who deserve and need the help who aren't going to get it. But it's
05:35also about the Affordable Care Act because they're taking away the, you know, all the progress that we
05:43made. During COVID, when we passed something called the American Rescue Plan, we put in place policies to
05:48reduce the cost of premiums for people trying to get their care through the Affordable Care Act
05:54exchanges. This bill, the big ugly bill, as I call it, the Republican budget undoes that. So
06:01immediately the Affordable Care Act becomes a lot more expensive for people. So the independent
06:05estimates are that millions will be kicked off ACA, millions more will be kicked off Medicaid. But then
06:11it's also about Medicare. Because of that massive debt bomb that this is, the multi-trillion dollar
06:17addition to the debt, that then triggers another half a trillion dollars in mandatory cuts to
06:24Medicare. That means doctors will get paid less. That means patient care will decline in quality.
06:30And then the last thing is this issue of the provider tax. So in California and a lot of other
06:36states, the way Medicaid is funded is through a provider tax on hospitals and healthcare providers.
06:42The Republican budget bill decimates the ability to collect those same level of provider taxes,
06:49meaning you could have hospitals that shut down. And we talked a lot about rural hospitals,
06:54but it's not just rural hospitals. It's suburban. It's urban. All hospitals that have a Medicaid
07:00population will be cut. And if you are on private insurance, if you don't have good hospital coverage,
07:06that impacts you. So it literally impacts every single person in America who has health insurance
07:13will be impacted by this bill in a negative way over time. And that is a massive failure
07:19by this administration, particularly when the president said that he would protect Medicare
07:25and Medicaid. He's doing the opposite with this.
07:28You were right to mention SNAP benefits. And that brings up the question, again, on a state level,
07:35are there things that can be done to provide that which the federal government will no longer pay for
07:40once this bill goes into effect?
07:43Well, that's what the Trump administration is banking on. So with regard to SNAP, they're
07:47going to stick these states with 25 percent of the bill and some states will be able to afford it
07:53and some won't. It depends. In California, we're running a budget deficit, as I'm sure
07:59your viewers are aware. And so it makes it very difficult, whether that's for health care or for
08:07food. But what I do know is how many of my constituents rely on SNAP just to get by. I live
08:14in a very expensive state and a very expensive part of an expensive state. And you've got people who are
08:19working, who are doing the best they can. But if they need the SNAP benefit just to be able to feed
08:27their kids or if you're a senior and you need that just to get by or a veteran and you need that to
08:32have enough to eat. I mean, for God's sake, why would we cut just the basic necessity of food,
08:38particularly for kids? When you invest in kids, there's really no better investment you can make
08:43than ensuring that that child has a positive learning environment and a decent quality of nutrition
08:49and enough to just make the basics work. When you invest in kids, the economic multiple of that
08:58is usually six or seven to one. I've seen studies even higher than that. In terms of the long-term
09:04positive economic outcome for that child, their positive societal outcome, they pay more in taxes,
09:10their rates of being involved with the criminal justice system go way down. So I just don't know
09:16how we could be any more dumb. And the administration could do anything dumber than cutting funding that
09:25help kids with better outcomes. It makes no sense. If California has to step up and provide some of
09:32these benefits at the state level, will that involve raising taxes on Californians? Well, for the
09:39administration, that's a feature, not a bug, right? I mean, the money has to come from somewhere.
09:43And in California, you know, for a number of years, we're running surpluses. Our state revenue is very
09:49dependent on income taxes compared to some other states. So it's very volatile. So, you know, the answer
09:56would be up to our friends in Sacramento to see, you know, where we're at. But many other states are simply
10:03not going to have any other choice but to increase the level of taxes at the state level in order to fill the
10:09gap or dramatically cut the services. In either event, it's a loser for the residents at, you know,
10:17for every state in the union. Now, Congressman, you mentioned that behind closed doors, this bill is
10:22unpopular even with Republicans. So to zoom out a little bit, does this mean that President Trump
10:30can just get whatever he wants until the midterms, perhaps? Seems like it. That's the only conclusion I can
10:37reach. Because when you hear people behind closed doors whose districts have massive Medicaid
10:42populations, for example, they know that their district is going to get absolutely hammered by
10:47this. They know it's wrong. They know it. And fundamentally, a lot of them know it's immoral
10:52to be taking away food from children or health care from seniors. And, you know, it's insane. But then
10:58they do whatever Trump says. They also know Mike Johnson will not have their back if they do anything,
11:05you know, to counter the president. So I will go on record saying that Mike Johnson is the weakest
11:12speaker in the modern history of the House of Representatives because the rank and file members
11:17of the House Republican Conference have no confidence that if they stand up to this administration on
11:22anything, that the leadership of the House Republican Conference will have their back. In fact, they
11:28encourage a primary challenge. They know that if they stand up to Trump, regardless of what he
11:34proposes or what they disagree with, if they stand up to Trump, they are one true social post away
11:39from getting a primary, from being deemed insufficiently MAGA, and no one will come to
11:45their rescue in their leadership in the Republican Party. So then the follow-up question to that is,
11:52what is next on the GOP agenda? And is there anything that could be done to stop it if it's as
11:59objectionable as you say this GOP budget bill is? Well, next on the GOP agenda, we still have the
12:06September 30 deadline to fund the government. Otherwise, we're going to face a shutdown.
12:11I don't know, you know, what their plan is, if they're, you know, planning another continuing
12:15resolution, which is a very bad way to keep funding the government through continuing resolution.
12:20And as an appropriator, I take great offense to the way that House Republicans have just
12:25abdicated their constitutional responsibility to appropriate funds under Article 1, Section 9,
12:33Clause 7 of the Constitution. So, you know, in my view, they need to step it up. They need to fund
12:39the government. They need to work with us in good faith to do so. And, you know, we can't keep doing
12:44CRs. In terms of the long view, the way I see it, Project 2029 starts as soon as that one big,
12:54ugly bill is signed. What I mean by that is we've got to take back the House. We've got to take back
12:59the Senate in 2026. We've got to try to take back the White House in 2028. And we've got to reverse
13:04the damage that's being done. The good news about all this is it's being done by a simple majority
13:11vote via the budget reconciliation process, which means it can be undone with a simple majority vote
13:18via the budget reconciliation process. It's not the way to govern, but it is nonetheless
13:23a reality that we can undo all of this with a simple majority.
13:29So if Democrats take back the House in 2026, is the first order of business undoing the big,
13:36beautiful bill?
13:37Well, we'll have to see what else, what other damage is done between now and then.
13:41But I think the absent having the White House, you're not going to be able to undo it, right?
13:47Because the president would just veto any measures sent to him to undo his signature
13:52legislative agenda. I would say being a check on this administration and making sure that their
13:58actual co-equal branches of government again would be the first order of business, real oversight,
14:03real accountability.
14:04Now, on a practical matter, the vote for this bill will happen Thursday, the day that you and I are
14:11speaking. When will real Americans start to feel the effects?
14:16Well, that's a very interesting question because the way the bill is structured, some of the real pain
14:23may not happen for a year or two or longer, and that's by design. They've structured this bill where
14:31you get some of the sugar high right away, but you don't feel the real pain for a while. And that's
14:38just how they've designed it. And it's an incredibly cynical way to legislate, but that is what they've
14:45chosen to do. So I hope that the average American is smart enough to actually understand what this is
14:53going to mean for them. And that means that they're going to have to spend the time to understand it.
15:01Or, you know, if not, if nothing else, they're going to see higher prices. They're going to see,
15:07you know, for example, energy prices go up. They're going to see higher taxes unless they're very wealthy.
15:14And, you know, ultimately, they're going to see the things like the no tax on tips really doesn't make
15:20sense for most of the people who are actually working and earning tips.
15:24So there are 16 months between now and the midterm elections. Are you concerned at all that the
15:32part of the bill that's not the sugar high will have escaped public view by that point,
15:38that people will no longer be conscious of it?
15:40I certainly hope that's not the case. We're going to do everything we can to communicate as effectively
15:45as we can in every venue we have to be able to to explain the impacts of this bill. And of course,
15:53in today's media ecosystem, it's not easy, but we've got to continue to make the case as best we can.
16:01Before I let you go, any final thoughts on this very busy news day about this very important budget bill?
16:07Well, the last thing that I would mention is somebody that's been involved in the clean energy world,
16:11you know, nonprofit and and legal world business world, is that this bill does extraordinary harm
16:18to all the progress that we're making to win the future as it pertains to the clean energy revolution.
16:24For me, this is you can you can say it's about the environment or about the climate.
16:29It's really about China and whether we're going to win or lose the long term competition when it comes to
16:35the clean tech revolution, we were at least trying to compete with supply chain and incentives.
16:45And now we're just giving up. It seems like we're giving up, doubling down on the fossil fuel industry
16:50and making a huge strategic mistake. And look, I agree with Elon Musk on this one where,
16:56you know, this bill is basically investing in the industries of the past and doing everything
17:02possible to destroy the industries of the future. Doing everything possible to destroy the industries
17:08of the future. Sobering words. Congressman Mike Levin, thank you so much for joining Forbes today.
17:14We really appreciate your time and your insight. Thanks. Good to be with you.
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