- 5 months ago
Prof Wong Chin Huat, Political Scientist at Sunway University, unpacks the recent cabinet reshuffle—exploring how political stability, governance efficiency, and economic policy direction intersect in this strategic move. What are the implications for investors, ministries, and the publi
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00:00Thanks for joining us. This is The Economy. I'm your host, Ibrahim Sani.
00:12In the office of mine right now is Professor Wong Chin Huat of Sandu University, a keen political scientist,
00:20discussing about the discourse of the environment of the political world of Malaysia and how it ties down to the economy quite directly.
00:28So Chin Huat, let's talk about some of the ongoings. The former economy minister and the former NRES minister left despite final or last minute overtures by the Prime Minister, Yaman Bumat, Datuk Sri Anwar,
00:46saying that he approved of their leave, he may not necessarily approve of their decision to resign but clearly both has indeed left office.
00:57Rafi Zee has not only served notice but he has gone past that. Nick Nazmi technically is still serving notice up until 3rd July,
01:07but generally speaking the consensus is he has left as well. So, first of all, why do you think that Anwar is still thinking about, I guess, leaving the door open for them to come back?
01:17Let's talk about that first before you think. I think that's very natural and smart of Anwar to do so because PKR today consists of two parts of the base.
01:27One is the loyalist establishment base, aligned with Anwar fully. The other one would be those sort of reformist and more idealist base if you like.
01:41If Rafi Zee and Nick Nazmi were pushed out, then basically the other half would either not come out to vote or may support third parties or cast their vote in protest in any way.
01:57Now, PKR doesn't really have too many safe seats. If the turnout is low, PKR could lose half of its seats.
02:06So, we're looking at 31 seats right now, half of that might be gone.
02:11Yeah, that's possible. Because it just depends on where you lose your turnout.
02:17Now, what it means is that it's pointless to be PKR next president, hoping to be prime minister if your party is number 6 or number 7 in the parliament.
02:30So, that's something very real. And therefore, I think both sides, both Anwar and Rafi Zee should see their common interests to keep the party together.
02:41The only way to do that is to go against Malaysian conventional wisdom that its party should be very coherent, united under the top leader as if like this is the Chinese Communist Party, right?
02:57But rather, you have to adopt the British way. British major parties are broad church or broad tents.
03:04So, you have different factions called E16 to the extent that you can be a maverick, dissident, government backbenchers and you'll be tolerated.
03:16The best example is Jeremy Corbyn, the former Labour Party leader.
03:21When he was the government backbencher, a government backbencher under the new Labour for 13 years, he defied his party whip for 428 times.
03:33Now, that's 34 times a year in average. He was never set, he was never denied his candidacy.
03:41This is consistent with the old Labour MP who Nick Nazmi quoted saying that he resigned because he wants to focus on politics a little bit more.
03:53Yeah.
03:54That man also thought about the same thing where he became a dissident in his own party.
03:59Yes, exactly.
04:00But collaborative still.
04:01Exactly. And there's another guy too, also from old Labour, Robin Cook, who was a party chairman in the British context.
04:10Chairman is just basically party manager.
04:12Yeah.
04:13So, he's a cabinet member.
04:14Yeah.
04:15He resigned to go to the backbench.
04:16Yeah.
04:17And he said that, I have not been a backbench for so long, I forgot how it looks from here, it's so nice.
04:24So, that's a lie to say that, I disagree with the government, it doesn't mean I want to bring down the government, but I have to take a stand, and therefore I go to the backbench.
04:33How does this rub with the Malaysian electorate? Because we're talking about, the compare and contrast here, we're talking about a thousand year old democracy versus, I don't know, 1957 minus 2025 kind of democracy.
04:47I think it's actually possible. We have evolved so fast. I mean, in the past, we have 22 years under the same prime minister. Then from 2018 to 2022, we have five prime ministers within five years, right?
05:00So, we can evolve and learn very fast. It is possible. What actually, and this development, if it's served to the right direction, it can actually solve the problems of this Madadi government.
05:13The problem with the Madadi government is that, because of the compromises they have to make, most of the parties have lost their appeal to their distinct base.
05:30DAP supporters are not happy with DAP because they are no longer outspoken.
05:34UMNO supporters are not happy with UMNO because they think that UMNO would never have a chance to come back on top.
05:40PKR supporters felt that you have compromised your idealism for power, right?
05:46How do you balance that? It's on one hand, if you are in a coalition government, of course you would have to make compromises.
05:53But that doesn't mean that you cannot have other members playing a different role.
05:57This is why we need to, from pure self-interest point of view, the government party should actually strengthen the government backbench.
06:07Allowing the backbenchers to play a different kind of role with the tacit understandings that you are helping us to retain our base.
06:18Now, of course there would be some competition, even personally, between government backbenchers and frontbenchers because ultimately backbenchers want to replace those in the frontbench, right?
06:30But if people are thinking in the long term, they would be measured in their competition.
06:36So for example, if Rafi Zee and Nick Nazmi were given a role to play in government backbench, that basically means that you have to expand a number of parliamentary select committees, right?
06:50And Nick Nazmi, for example, would probably take over committees on environment.
06:56And then Rafi Zee may take on economy. Now you could do all those.
07:00And they would want to show that I'm better than the frontbench guy. That's fine.
07:05But you wouldn't go too far. You wouldn't promise Moon and Star like before you were in opposition.
07:11Because you know, one day you get back to frontbench, you cannot do all these things and we come back to haunt you, right?
07:18So the kind of promises would be tempered and much more realistic.
07:21Exactly. And this is what we need to do. Because there's a lot of things.
07:25If you are a minister, you cannot say everything you like.
07:30This is why that minister don't get into debate except in answering response from MPs.
07:38Rafi Zee says this all the time during his political campaign for his political party.
07:43Exactly.
07:44But as backbencher, he's a little bit, not a little bit, a lot more free to do so.
07:49Exactly. And what is more important, ultimately, what Rafi Zee and Nick Nazmi needs is not ministerial posts.
07:59What they need is a guarantee that they would not be taken out of their seat.
08:04Because that traditionally happened, right?
08:07We have very few exceptions. One of them is Tungur Azali.
08:11He was never taken out of seats after returning to UMNO.
08:14But most cases that if you challenge your leaders and you lose, you are expected to fade out
08:20or at some point people will take away your seat.
08:22Now, PKR needs these two guys and people like Wong Chan because they have that appeal to the more reformist base of PKR and even PH at a wider level.
08:36Strangely enough, these three seats, Pandan, Setawangsa, and Subang are relative.
08:41Subang, of course, very safe. Pandan, I think so too.
08:43Setawangsa is a little bit more dicey but as safe as it gets, I suppose.
08:46So that is the situation right now. Where do you think the reality is going to be when it comes to the likelihood of them working together?
08:55I don't know what the mood is between, say for instance, the personalities-wise, Datuk Sri Anwar versus Datuk Sri Rafizi.
09:03Are they able to come to terms with the whole reality of what they are facing today?
09:07Do you think that they are better off, they can see that they are better off together as opposed to apart?
09:13I think what they need to do is look beyond the past and look to the future.
09:19What I mean is it's not about a peace plan that says, now you have laws, you come under my order.
09:29That wouldn't work. I mean, had Rafizi accepted Anwar's appeal to stay on, he would lose his appeal as Rafizi.
09:38That's not the kind of guy people expected of him.
09:43So what it needs to do is that both sides need to see very clearly into the future.
09:47You're going to face a general election three years down the road.
09:51Is that still three years?
09:53Possibly shorter. But even let's say it's three years down the road, it's very likely that your party election would come later.
10:03Yeah, I understand.
10:05Right? Because that you can extend it.
10:07Yeah.
10:08So what's the main point here is that you need to win the GE 16.
10:12Yeah.
10:13Before talking about who going to take up as president.
10:15Yeah.
10:16Right? Rafizi, of course, has his ambition.
10:18He wants to be the president at some day.
10:21Oh, you think so?
10:22I think, yeah.
10:23He has never said nobody has ever said so, I suppose, except for political scientists.
10:26I mean, especially after now, but I think that goes back to one question. It depends not on his ambition, but on Nuru Izzah's performance.
10:35I expect Nuru Izzah to be appointed to be the economy minister.
10:41Let's move on to that. So from that discussion, we are now in the lull period where ministers need to be appointed.
10:49There could be some serious reshuffling happening considering that Zafrul is finishing his term at the end of the year.
10:59And there are some overtures made by the UMNO president, Datuk Sri Zahid Amidi, asking for the allocations for UMNO seats in the cabinet to be retained at seven despite Zafrul leaving.
11:12There's also some overtures into the movement of some UMNO key personalities such as Titi Wang CMP, Datuk Sri Joharigani, and where is he going to be placed next?
11:23One would argue that commodities minister is very good for him, but may not be to his speed, considering that he is much more high performance than need to be for a commodity minister.
11:36So against all of this, where do you see the movement of some of the personalities that have been mentioned, including those that are expected to replace Rafi Zia and Nick Nazmi?
11:50So you were mentioning about Nuru Izzah?
11:52I think Nuru Izzah would likely be appointed as the Economic Minister despite her pledge not to join the cabinet.
12:02I think that would be necessary for her because she has now got that legitimate positions of being elected.
12:10Does she? Because she is still relative.
12:14It's true, but I think this is the part where we need to put things in perspective.
12:19Guan Ying has always been seen as son of Kit Siang when he took over.
12:24But when he led DAP to win big in 2008, he won his place in the party.
12:33He became Lim Guan Ying, not just son of Lim Kit Siang.
12:38So whenever people talk about it, I think it's quite clear that Nuru Izzah is heading to the top.
12:45But whether she could do it or not depends very much on whether she could perform.
12:50Now where else can you perform?
12:52You can't perform as technocrats, as the Prime Minister advisor.
12:57Now that since you already taken the heat to go into the kitchen, might as well you go all out to be a minister.
13:05What about some rumours that she might go to Selangor?
13:10Wow, okay.
13:12But that goes back to whether would Amiruddin be willing to give up his...
13:18Is that his choice?
13:20After all, he is still a member of the party and the party president has the...
13:25For her to go to, for Nuru Izzah to go to Selangor, the risk is at high as Tengku Zafru.
13:33Because you need a by-election.
13:35Okay, let's talk about that as well.
13:36So where do you think Tengku Zafru is going to end up considering that he has left UMNO and has expressed desire to join PKR.
13:43So let's be clear he has not yet joined.
13:46Yeah.
13:47But the writing is on the wall in terms of him joining anyway.
13:51Yeah.
13:52So where is he going to be heading into?
13:57He has denied that he wanted a by-election but that's why I thought that was the original plan.
14:02Whether by him or by other people.
14:04So for him to have...
14:06If you could get a parliamentary seat, that's easy.
14:09If not, then you get a state seat.
14:11Of course, he wouldn't want to be a backbencher or just an ex-co.
14:14He want to be MB.
14:15But Amiruddin is not leaving Selangor because going to the federal cabinet doesn't give you job security.
14:24First of all, from the Prime Minister.
14:26Second, from the election, no one guaranteed that PKR or PH would still dominate the next government.
14:33Yeah.
14:34So he wouldn't want to leave.
14:35He would want to keep his castle.
14:36Now, if anyone wants to push Nuri Issa to go for the states, she would face an even more uphill battle than Zafru.
14:49Because Amiruddin wouldn't be happy.
14:52Now, how can you win?
14:54I mean, today Anwar is not as popular as immediately after the election.
15:01Even for his base.
15:03So you're going to push and to stage another by-election just to install someone you like would not go down well with public opinion.
15:12And there was the lesson of Langka Kajang.
15:15Her mother didn't do it.
15:17Right?
15:18If she wanted a state election, a state seat so much, people would question.
15:21Why didn't you run in 2023?
15:24There's some rumour in terms of even the Selangor royalty might not or Selangor Palace might necessarily want Aziza.
15:31That's a rumour that is, I guess, unproven until today.
15:34But just to recap for those that might not be uninitiated.
15:41The four vice presidents of PKR, they're all MPs on top of the fact that two out of the four are actually Adun holders.
15:50I mean, Nudin, the MB of Negi Semialan is also the MP for PD.
15:56And of course, the giant killer, I suppose, MB Selangor, who took head to head with Azmin.
16:03Who, based on their social media, are actually quite friends despite them going head to head in the previous general election.
16:10So it's not a problem of them having to sworn in as senators.
16:14They can't just come in as cabinet members anytime.
16:17Yes, exactly.
16:18Yeah.
16:19So now we're looking at the two other folks that are inside the vice presidency.
16:23Chang Lee Kang, who you think is going to be maintained as the Mosti Minister?
16:29I think he would stay in cabinet whether it's keep his own portfolio, that's another question.
16:35And then what about Ramanan?
16:38The expectation now that if you look at the Indian base, they have been quite unhappy with this government over a lot of issues, especially on religion.
16:48And to have an Indian full minister, by here I mean, for many Tamil, they wouldn't count Gobind Singh as one of their own.
17:03So to have a Tamil full minister would probably address that.
17:08But of course, in every way that Ramanan feels very much like MIC more than PKR.
17:16That's another question.
17:18So now let's talk about some of the thinking behind Zafru because we haven't landed on where do you think he will be.
17:24Now if he cannot go for a by-election and he has denied that he wanted it now, the best way for him to do is to be appointed as a trade envoy with the ministerial status.
17:39So basically all you need to do is to make sure the next Métis minister can work well with him.
17:45So you wouldn't end up having a split leadership with two heads.
17:48As long as that past is dealt with, that would be the best way to him.
17:52And that change can happen when cabinet resuffle happen or he can actually stay on for a while until 2nd of December.
18:02Yeah.
18:03So let's talk about then who do you think will replace him as trade minister?
18:07I think the market speculation most likely person would be Johari Ghani.
18:13Johari Ghani.
18:14Yeah.
18:15The Titi Wang Zambi.
18:16Yes.
18:17Okay.
18:18Then finally let's take a look into the timeline into all of this.
18:21First of all, let's talk about the legality of things.
18:25Can a ministry be ministerless for a long period of, even for a short period of time?
18:31Is it, what does the law say about that?
18:34No, I don't think there's any particular things on the law.
18:36You can always appoint another minister to overlook that.
18:40Like a caretaker minister.
18:41Yeah.
18:42So there's no problem at all.
18:43It's more about, and also in many cases that you would have to bureaucrats running things on a daily basis.
18:51It's just that no one would be able to make important decision.
18:55No driver of major projects, right?
18:58But the continued plans can actually go on.
19:01Okay.
19:02Then timeline, where do you think it's all going to happen?
19:04Is it 3rd July after Nick Nazmi's notice period ends?
19:09I don't think that Anwar would act on particularly for Nick Nazmi.
19:14There's two possibilities.
19:15One is somewhere before Hari Medeka.
19:21Oh, okay.
19:22So if you want to...
19:23Wow, two months?
19:24No, before.
19:25So I'm saying like anytime before that.
19:27The reason why I draw that line is like unlikely you're going to have something in between
19:31Yeah.
19:32Hari Medeka and then Hari Malaysia.
19:35Yeah, okay.
19:36So if it's going to happen, it could be either June or July.
19:40So that's one window?
19:41There's one window.
19:42The other window that could be actually dragged a little bit later after Sabah State election.
19:47Which is having to be done by October this year.
19:51The Sabah State legislature would stand dissolved by October, which means election would then go all the way to December, right?
20:00Yeah.
20:01But there's more likely what one speculation is that it would be held, the legislature would be dissolved early immediately after Hari Malaysia.
20:13That's your reading, I suppose.
20:15That's one of the speculation.
20:17So with these two windows that you have outlined, which is the more likely, in your opinion?
20:24Maybe the earlier one.
20:26The earlier one?
20:27Yeah.
20:28Which is that before Medeka?
20:29Yeah.
20:30And that depends on going back on Sabah, because let's say if GRS strike a deal with the government, that basically you don't have to reflect much on that.
20:42Yeah.
20:43Right?
20:44Yeah.
20:45So you don't have to touch the Sabah part.
20:46Yeah.
20:47You just do that.
20:48But however, if GRS decide to go head on with the two national block in Sabah, PH and BN, that may leave more uncertainty.
20:59Which means that you could, the Prime Minister can make a decision after the same election.
21:05Okay.
21:06Let's talk about Sabah politics a little bit more, because considering that maybe not many people would be familiar, you are a Sabahan.
21:13No, I'm not.
21:14I'm actually from Perak.
21:15You're from Perak.
21:16I'm Sabahan Aspao.
21:18Oh.
21:19Asli tapi palsu.
21:20Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:21Aspao.
21:22Okay, okay, okay.
21:23Let's talk about Sabah right now.
21:25What is the likelihood of GRS striking a deal with PHBN?
21:31Because prior to the PKR elections, Datuk Sri Zahid Amidi of UMNO was talking about how he is actually quite open to talk about anybody, including Warisan.
21:42And then, of course, PH is now, after the PKR election, Nur Izzah is hitting the ground running in Sabah, trying to talk to some of the cabang there, trying to see how they can coalesce and maneuver the political machinery there.
21:59Much of it is to the much shagrin of Rafi Zee who was talking about that is rather disrespectful for the party to do so.
22:06At that point in time, he was still deputy president.
22:08But politics aside, everybody is making overtures saying that, you know, a lot is on the table and seems like nothing is off the table.
22:18So what is the likelihood of coalitions or relationships and partnerships can be done?
22:25What is the likelihood of say GRS partnering with PHBN or just one of them or both?
22:30Okay, let's go back to the bigger picture.
22:33Basically, you have four forces in Sabah.
22:37Putting aside PH, which is largely DEP and a bit of PKR, then the other three were brothers from the old UMNO family.
22:48UMNO, GRS, and Warisan.
22:52And what happened in the last state election was that GRS and BN, UMNO, they team up, they split the seats.
23:03Now, with now all four blocks are in the federal government, the calculation is this.
23:09How can each side maximize the number they contest?
23:16For PH, it's almost quite fixed.
23:18You're not going much bigger.
23:20So it mainly is the other three.
23:22So whoever get left out would be in trouble.
23:25Right?
23:26And then, but they would not even mind completely that the settlements, like everyone gets something.
23:32That just means they all become very small.
23:36Which is not bad from Portradaria's point of view because it's much easier to control.
23:40But of course, these people wouldn't.
23:41So ultimately, I think for all this positioning and gesture, it comes down to seat negotiation.
23:51And there's something in ANWAR's hands which is bad from the point of democratic governance is of course video scandal.
24:04Which MACC is still trying to resolve.
24:09Yeah, and we know that MACC have very different speed and pace that can change according to political circumstances.
24:18Okay.
24:19The final two areas I want to explore is on voter palatability, the acceptance of voter reaction towards some of these political maneuverings that will happen I suppose.
24:31Nobody wants to talk about it on air, but everybody's talking about it at the coffee shops.
24:35Yeah.
24:36This is the thing that frustrates me, right?
24:37Yeah.
24:38Especially getting on the record about who goes where and everything and timelines and stuff like that.
24:41Yeah.
24:42And of course, you know, all of this is rather academic.
24:44The only person that can determine all this is the Prime Minister.
24:47This is how the thing is in Malaysia.
24:49Of course, you know, while he plans to decide to do the political maneuvering, he is also reading the ground and how the ground is going to accept most if not all of these decisions.
25:02That's the first area.
25:03The second area is on how this ties down with the economy.
25:07Because after all, this show is about the economy, investor relations, investor confidence, political risk and whether or not this is going to be priced in into how foreign investments are going to flow in, reaction towards ASEAN, all that macro stuff.
25:24Where do you see these two elements coming in against what we have discussed?
25:30Say, for instance, that that envoy, the trade envoy that you mentioned, that could be Zafro's way forward.
25:38Yeah.
25:39That's not without precedents.
25:40We've seen under the Muhyiddin administration how that has happened before and such and how it is working in tandem with the trade minister and so on.
25:49Yeah.
25:50So how does these two elements fall into this picture?
25:52I think for voters, a lot of them, especially Madani supporters, are frustrated because what they get is not what they saw.
26:07That frustration, if it were to go further, it would likely result in lower turnout.
26:17Not necessarily protest wood.
26:18I think protest wood is more likely in the case of Indian than Chinese.
26:22Chinese voters are unlikely.
26:24Many Liberals, Liberal Malays probably, may also just get frustrated.
26:31But some may go for Muda or PSM.
26:35The small party may not make a difference except that they could split enough woods for the government to lose seats.
26:42Right.
26:43On UMNO part, the frustration is perhaps something, the dilemma of UMNO supporters is perhaps more of like, how to get the party back in a running position for top seats.
26:59Right.
27:00That's tough now because like, if UMNO were to join the opposition, they would be at the bottom, the third Malay parties.
27:09Yeah.
27:10After the past Embrisad too.
27:11Exactly.
27:12But if they were to stay on forever as peers supporters, peers junior partner, and given the lesser number of seats that you can run, they wouldn't have a chance to come back.
27:24It's more of supply and confidence, I suppose.
27:26Yeah.
27:27So the other way around is that ultimately if the parties are clear-minded enough, they might want to strike a duel.
27:33That's something big, not likely to happen yet, but there's a possibility.
27:38You might need to change the system a little bit so allies can actually compete against each other and then form coalition after election.
27:46Yeah.
27:47That's possible by introducing party list seats as in Thailand.
27:52Yeah.
27:53So that's possible.
27:54Now come back to, if you don't have anything and the government would act as if just like, I'm in power, what can you do?
28:02Like in the case of Tiobing Ho, you throw in no further actions.
28:05Yeah.
28:06Ultimately, you might see PAMU, a new party emerge as, well, not a new party.
28:14Party has been here for two, three elections, right?
28:17Yeah.
28:18Emerge as the largest party.
28:19Party Aku Mala Sundi.
28:20People just don't go out to vote.
28:22Back to investor sentiment, I think a lot of things here depends on the external factor.
28:29Trump tariff and then Israel attacks on Iran.
28:34All these things would probably disturb us.
28:37But putting all these things aside, I think the economy has been relatively well managed.
28:43We have seen Malaysia overtaking Thailand in the influx of tourists.
28:51We have seen economic growth benefiting from all this uncertainty.
29:02But what, and the government stability I think for the short future is not in question, right?
29:12No matter what you talk about, I think it is quite unlikely for this government to collapse.
29:17And interestingly, this is where you find that PN is a bit in disarray.
29:22Because the opposition appear to be strong whenever they see a chance that the government can be changed.
29:29So that was the case in G15 in the state election.
29:34Once that possibility is eliminated, they actually lost a bit of their momentum.
29:40And that, of course, you need to give credit to the anti-hopping law put in force in 2022.
29:48All these things actually help to keep Anwar in power.
29:52But nothing guaranteed Anwar or Madani would still be in power after G16.
29:58Before G16, I think the political and economic situation are stable.
30:05So, no langkah Sheraton moments.
30:09This government is going to stay intact until the next GE.
30:13But once GE is called for, everything is up in the air.
30:17And we'll see where the coins land.
30:20And those head voters who are unhappy, that's the time they can punish any political parties they want.
30:26Okay, final question.
30:28KJ, where do you think is he going to compete with Estrawani on the broadcast angle?
30:34Or is he going to compete with some of the politicians at the political level?
30:38I think he has a lot of choices.
30:40Of course, we have rumours earlier say that UMNO may welcome him back.
30:44That, of course, is a possibility.
30:46But also, for me, the larger questions of him returning politics is not if.
30:54It's a matter of when.
30:56But more importantly, is what kind of changes.
31:00If he goes into UMNO, for example, does it mean that it would help stir UMNO away?
31:10Does it mean that it would help to stir UMNO away from being a Najib apologist party?
31:17Right?
31:18Helping UMNO to recapture the Malay middle ground.
31:22Or he would actually turn out to be part of Najib supporters, which is quite unlikely.
31:28But if he goes in that way, then he would lose his ground.
31:31I think the main thing here, given all the political capital he accumulated after keluar sampai sekarang.
31:40Yeah.
31:41Close sampai sekarang.
31:42Yeah.
31:43Close sampai sekarang.
31:44Yeah.
31:45What would he make?
31:46KSS.
31:47Yes.
31:48Right.
31:49I don't know whether this is relevant, but I guess my final question would be on Rafi Z.
31:57Assuming that things might not work out, is he going to start his own party?
32:02Is that something?
32:03That's not a possibility.
32:04Rafi Z is too smart to start his own party.
32:08Because the field is crowded.
32:09Given a situation now, without changing the electoral system, any new party go in would
32:14just end up contributing deposit to the government coffer.
32:19Right?
32:20So no way.
32:21His best chance is actually stay in the party, strike a deal with Anwar, that we go to G16
32:27altogether.
32:28You don't kill all my candidates.
32:30You leave us a game to play.
32:32We won't attack you too far.
32:34After elections, then we talk about, you know, what we can do.
32:38Because if Nurul Izzah can deliver, Rafi Z would just accept the fact that, you know, that's
32:43not your job.
32:44Yeah.
32:45Right?
32:46But if Nurul Izzah cannot deliver, someone else would still come and challenge you.
32:49The viable alternative is ever present and ready.
32:51Yeah.
32:52Okay.
32:53Thank you very much, Chin Huat.
32:54That was Professor Wong Chin Huat, Political Scientist of Sunway University.
32:57If you've missed out on any part of this interview, just head on to astrawani.com.
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33:19My name is Ibrahim Sani.
33:20Catch you in the next one.
33:21See you in the next one.
33:22See you in the next one.
33:23See you in the next one.
33:28Bye.
33:29Bye.
33:30Bye.
33:31See you in the next one.
33:34Immerhold.
33:36See you in the next one.
33:40Bye.
33:44Bye.
33:48See you in the next two.
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