- 6/18/2025
Brett Goldstein ('Shrinking'), John Wells ('The Pitt'), Liz Meriwether ('Dying for Sex'), Mindy Kaling ('Running Point'), Paul W. Downs ('Hacks'), Stephen Graham ('Adolescence') and Tracey Wigfield ('The Four Seasons') join THR in our Producers Emmy Roundtable.
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PeopleTranscript
00:00You get a lot of notes?
00:01What do you think happens?
00:02Yeah.
00:03Of course I get a lot of notes.
00:04Oh, that makes me feel great.
00:05Oh, pages of notes.
00:07Because I'm always on a notes club,
00:08and I'm like, fucking John Wells doesn't get a lot of notes.
00:11It never stops.
00:12I'm so sorry for you and selfishly happy.
00:30I'm Mikey O'Connell with The Hollywood Reporter,
00:46and this is the Producer Roundtable.
00:50Among your series here today, we have suicidal ideation,
00:55child-on-child murder, jokes about terminal cancer,
01:00and perhaps the most graphic birth scene ever caught on camera,
01:07but definitely television.
01:10For any of you, though, what was the last scene
01:12you wrote or filmed that made you or your collaborators
01:16genuinely nervous?
01:18You know, we were nervous to write the scene in our last episode
01:23of Hacks where Debra gives up her white whale.
01:26Sorry for the spoiler if you haven't seen it.
01:28I know.
01:29What?
01:29We were really nervous to write that because it was something
01:32that we knew we were building to for four seasons,
01:34so we really wanted to stick the landing,
01:36but we also didn't know how people would take it, you know?
01:41We often say that she can get away with literal murder,
01:44and people cheer her on.
01:46So to give up something even though it was selfless
01:49and hopefully character growth was a scary thing to write.
01:54And also we were trying to wrap our arms around all the changes
01:58that have been happening in the industry,
01:59and so to try and do that in a way that was both funny
02:03but touching and hopefully coherent was challenging and scary.
02:08You wrote yourself in as a very complicated character
02:12on your own show.
02:13Yeah, well, I didn't write it for me, but then I did play it.
02:18Yeah.
02:19But when I wrote it, it wasn't with me in mind.
02:21So, but then you realize that is a shortcut to play it
02:25because you're like, I do know what this is
02:27because I have written it.
02:30But yeah, I mean, look,
02:33in our show there's suicide and death and
02:37you have to be careful writing that stuff.
02:41And you, especially in a comedy.
02:45But I don't know the answer to it.
02:48You do a lot of research and you read lots of first-hand accounts
02:53of other people who have been through the things that they've been through.
02:55And it's also based on people we know and things like that.
02:58And you hope that you are writing it with the right amount of empathy
03:02and not being callous with a serious thing.
03:05And then just hope for the best.
03:09I mean, you have to have something.
03:11I think we were mostly concerned about,
03:15we wanted to show what it's really like
03:18to be an emergency room physician or health provider
03:21and to have that experience.
03:23And we didn't know if the audience would keep watching.
03:26It's very graphic, but it's also very real.
03:29And so we were just concerned,
03:31would the audience actually go along for the ride?
03:33So we titrated it, you know,
03:36to use the medical term where it's not as graphic at the beginning,
03:38although some people would disagree.
03:41And it becomes more so because you become more
03:43able to accept what's going to happen and leading to the birth,
03:48which we said is a gift to all women
03:51because they should look at all their children and husbands
03:54and say, that's what I just did for you.
03:58Yeah.
03:58So, but no, we discovered the audience.
04:00I make my husband watch it every morning.
04:04I think in your show, it's interesting
04:06because we see horrible things happen and graphic stuff.
04:10But the most upsetting thing was the woman being punched
04:13because we care about it.
04:15Like it was such a, it's a much smaller thing,
04:17but it was, that was the bit that upset me the most.
04:19Well, but to your point, I think so much of it is research
04:22and making certain that you're actually telling the stories
04:24based on what you've learned in the research that you do
04:28so that you're being honest to the people
04:31who've been through these experiences.
04:33And so, you know, that was just talking to a lot of nurses
04:36and healthcare people who have been damaged.
04:38There's actually new legislation to try and deal with that,
04:41federal legislation,
04:43because there's been so much violence since COVID
04:45towards healthcare workers.
04:47I think that one of the key elements is honesty.
04:50For our show in particular,
04:52I think Jack got rather frightened when I said,
04:55by, you know, at the end of the first episode,
04:57we know it's him that's done it.
04:59So then it's not a who done it,
05:01but it's more of a why.
05:03And then it was about looking into the aspects
05:05of what's made this child commit this horrific act
05:10and then kind of exploring the possibilities
05:14that were all slightly accountable,
05:16you know, with respect to parents,
05:19the school system, society, the government,
05:22and then something which, yeah,
05:24but all of a certain age that we never had
05:26or our parents never had to cope with
05:28was the internet.
05:30And that can also parent and educate our children
05:33just as much, if not more, to be honest,
05:37than what we can.
05:38So it was kind of navigating that.
05:40And also, we weren't a normal linear show.
05:43We were going to jump about along the timeline
05:45that we settled in.
05:47So I think that was one of the,
05:48that was a bit scary when I said to Jack,
05:50oh, no, no, no, we know he's done it.
05:52We see it at the end.
05:53And he was like, we see it at the end of the first time.
05:55I went, yeah, yeah.
05:56We show the kid that we've got him on camera.
05:59So I think that was a little bit frightening.
06:01I put off writing the last episode
06:04of Dying for Sex for a really long time,
06:07I think, just because I didn't want her to actually die.
06:10And I felt like I had some sort of control
06:14over that for a second.
06:16And then it got weird.
06:18And people were like, you need to write that.
06:21It's shooting tomorrow.
06:22Yeah, like, yeah, like, you can tell
06:25by the tone of the email.
06:27It's like, those sentences get shorter.
06:31But yeah, I mean, I, I don't know
06:33what it's like to write not nervous.
06:36But yeah, that was particularly daunting
06:40just, just because I, I didn't want the character to die.
06:45And, and I really didn't know kind of like
06:49where to find the comedy in it.
06:52And in a way that made sense.
06:54So it was, yeah.
06:56But then, I don't know.
06:56I mean, I'm more nervous now than I am writing.
07:01For your, for your research though,
07:03because can I just say that was,
07:05my wife won't watch it.
07:06So, but I watched it.
07:09And I want to,
07:09that last breath,
07:14that was so beautiful.
07:16It was so beautifully written,
07:18so beautifully played.
07:19And when you caught that,
07:21that's, and that's,
07:23when she shared to me,
07:24because my wife was there when her mum passed away
07:27and she watched her mum take that final breath
07:29and you described it.
07:30And I love the way she describes it.
07:31But then when she goes through it,
07:33like it was, it was beautiful.
07:35It was so beautiful.
07:36And I swear to God,
07:38I was just,
07:39the tears were just streaming down my face
07:41because I was there and I witnessed it.
07:43And it felt,
07:44it felt like we were allowed
07:45to watch this precious experience.
07:48Do you know what I mean?
07:48And I hope my wife will watch it,
07:50but I don't think she ever will
07:51because she can't,
07:52because she's been there
07:53and it'll just bring all them emotions back.
07:56But it was so beautiful.
07:58Thank you for sharing.
07:59It was gorgeous.
08:01It's too early to cry.
08:02Thank you so much.
08:04No, I mean,
08:05the breath was something that we,
08:07and Michelle was just so incredibly open and brave
08:11and just, you know,
08:12we were like really working on that
08:14because we wanted to get that,
08:16to get that right.
08:18You got it right.
08:20Similarly, we,
08:21spoiler alert,
08:22killed Steve Carell on our show.
08:24And I think just because we,
08:26Tina Fey and Lang Fisher and I created the show
08:29and our whole room,
08:30we're all comedy writers.
08:31We had never written a,
08:34you know,
08:35a death and kind of navigating the,
08:37because we wanted it to be funny.
08:38So, you know,
08:39navigating after they find out he dies
08:43and then they go to tell his ex-wife
08:46who's getting oral sex from her boyfriend.
08:49And then they,
08:50and then now they have to tell her
08:52and she has this heartbreaking reaction.
08:55And now the boyfriend's playing candle in the wind
08:57on his guitar.
08:58It's kind of like,
08:59this is going to be,
09:00it's a,
09:00but it's a,
09:01when you first shot,
09:02when you first wrote it,
09:03when you shoot it,
09:04and then when you first see the cut,
09:05you're like,
09:05oh my God,
09:06there's so many like left
09:07and then right
09:08and then left turns.
09:09Are people just going to be like,
09:11I hate you.
09:12Go away.
09:12What is it?
09:13This is disgusting.
09:14What is this?
09:15So,
09:16you know,
09:16it's,
09:17it's scary to kind of take a leap tonally,
09:19but when it works and it's funny,
09:22it's like very satisfying as a viewer too.
09:25And I think if it's human.
09:27Yes.
09:28That's the key of it.
09:29If there's a sense that you,
09:30you sense the realness in it,
09:31you sense the truth in it.
09:33And that's what really works.
09:36I mean,
09:37totally,
09:39I think my show,
09:40Running Point,
09:41is maybe dip back on that.
09:44I was just thinking when I watch Adolescence,
09:45like there's so many similarities
09:47and it came out around the same time.
09:49Well,
09:49I was going to say,
09:50you know,
09:51the fear you have when you do a show like that about sports is just the fear of the like hard work and getting it right.
09:58Because basketball fans are,
10:01you know,
10:01like I've worked with shows for teenagers and worked with shows with about the Indian diaspora.
10:06And if you get it wrong,
10:08people will pounce.
10:10And I have a very fragile ego and I hate criticism.
10:15And so in doing a show like about a basketball team where people have to do basketball speak all the time
10:22and they have to sound legitimate,
10:23it takes an enormous amount of research.
10:26I'm not like having suicidal ideation like other characters in other shows.
10:31I've never seen basketball and I watched a show and it sounded totally legit.
10:35Okay.
10:35So I'm so happy.
10:36So the terror of getting it wrong.
10:38So the terror of getting it wrong,
10:40you know,
10:40I think that that is,
10:42um,
10:43I am like to do things that are easy and I like to do shows about ambitious women who try to date and get married and feel acceptance.
10:51And,
10:52and that had been my career up until this show.
10:54And now it's like,
10:55oh,
10:56I have to learn this new scale,
10:57which was uncomfortable,
10:58but worth it.
10:59Liz,
11:00I read that one point FX asked you,
11:03um,
11:04to pull back on the male full frontal.
11:07Yeah,
11:08let's get into it.
11:08Just slightly.
11:10The just slightly is what interests me.
11:12First of all,
11:12what does just slightly look like?
11:14And,
11:15um,
11:16since this is your first series that really explores sex,
11:21what surprised you about working on a show that wades so deeply into like intimacy and nudity?
11:29Yeah.
11:29I mean,
11:30I wanted to write sex on the dropout and then was told that any sex for legal reasons had to be good sex.
11:36And I was like,
11:37I don't know how to write a scene where they're like,
11:40this is so good.
11:42Do you mean the quality of the sex is good or that it,
11:45the lawyers were like,
11:46it has to be good sex.
11:47And I was like,
11:48I don't even want to think about what that means.
11:50Everyone leaves satisfied.
11:52They shaked on it.
11:53Yeah.
11:54Um,
11:54no,
11:54I mean,
11:54it was,
11:55it was daunting.
11:57I,
11:57you know,
11:57I,
11:58I actually went to a zoom in the writers guild.
12:03They had a zoom on like how to write sex.
12:06You're like,
12:07with your notebook.
12:07I took notes and I put,
12:09um,
12:10it was incredible.
12:11It was really useful.
12:12And because I,
12:13I just like,
12:13didn't know how to,
12:15how to do it.
12:16Um,
12:17and I,
12:17it was like,
12:18you know,
12:18just be really clear,
12:20be really clinical,
12:21like kind of just say exactly what you want to see.
12:24And I,
12:26you know,
12:27I did it.
12:28I was blushing a little,
12:29uh,
12:30but I,
12:30yeah,
12:30I,
12:30I,
12:31I did it.
12:32Um,
12:32I,
12:33I,
12:34it was really important to me that the sex never felt like it was,
12:37um,
12:38taking you out of the story.
12:40I,
12:40I remember watching normal people and just loving the way that I felt like
12:44that was so integrated into kind of what was happening in the story
12:47and what was happening for those characters.
12:49So I always wanted,
12:50if there was sex in the show,
12:51I wanted it to be,
12:53you know,
12:53you want to learn something new by the end of the sex scene,
12:56like in a musical theater,
12:57like it's,
12:58it's a musical.
12:59That's how I always approach.
13:02Big musical number.
13:03Yeah.
13:04Big finish.
13:05Yeah.
13:05Yeah.
13:07I mean,
13:08coming from,
13:09I did seven years of a network show where when they told us,
13:12I think it was like year four or five that we were allowed to say
13:17Dick,
13:18um,
13:18as a,
13:19not as an object,
13:20but as a insult,
13:22it was like,
13:22there were cheers in the writer's room.
13:24We were just like,
13:24we were just like,
13:25Oh my God,
13:26like that's such a great comedy word.
13:28It has like that.
13:29So this was really new.
13:31And,
13:31um,
13:32I was amazed by how FX was just open and,
13:36you know,
13:37and I actually felt proud that we got them to a place where FX was like,
13:41you need to pull back.
13:42So that meant taking,
13:45that meant counting the frames that we saw the penis,
13:51um,
13:51and specifically.
13:53Frame by frame.
13:54Yeah.
13:55And,
13:55and,
13:55um,
13:56because that's what American values are.
14:00What's the,
14:01what's the maximum number of frames?
14:03You know,
14:03it was never like specifically said to me,
14:06but it was like a kind of like,
14:09let's,
14:09let's just start taking them out and see what,
14:12where we go.
14:13It was specifically when the penis sprouted butterfly wings and took off flying.
14:18And there was a moment that we had to cut that I like will regret to my,
14:22to my,
14:23to my end days where the penis is like flying towards the camera and then sort of like in a flirty way,
14:29like,
14:30and then like flutters away.
14:34And we have to cut that.
14:35So that,
14:35that,
14:36yeah,
14:36that was.
14:36You still have that footage somewhere.
14:38I mean,
14:38it's gotta go.
14:39I don't,
14:39I don't,
14:40but yeah.
14:41For the uncut.
14:42Yeah.
14:44That was really funny.
14:46My,
14:47my follower,
14:48everyone was going to be about executive notes in general,
14:51but now I'm very curious about legal notes,
14:53considering the enjoyable sex comment.
14:56But what is the funniest or most absurd or infuriating note you've ever gotten from an executive?
15:04Not to be a kiss up,
15:06but I,
15:06I feel like legal notes are often worse because at least executive notes are often,
15:12even if the notes bad,
15:13you can read what's going on under there's something they're not understanding.
15:16There's something that's not resonating.
15:18So whatever,
15:19let's think about it.
15:20And usually,
15:20even if you're annoyed by it,
15:22you're like,
15:22it ends up being better when you talk about it for an extra day.
15:26I,
15:26I feel like we had a,
15:28we had a penis situation.
15:31We had a legal thing.
15:33The name of my next show.
15:34Your next,
15:34your autobiography,
15:35a penis situation.
15:37We had a thing where we had a joke that was,
15:40you know,
15:40at the end of an episode,
15:42the friends come over Anne's hotel room and they turn on her TV and like a really graphic porn is playing.
15:49It really felt.
15:50And we were told,
15:52um,
15:53but by,
15:53by our studio that,
15:55uh,
15:55you,
15:56we cannot,
15:56it's a studio rule.
15:57We cannot license pornography.
15:59We never do.
16:00You will have to shoot it yourself.
16:02And I was like,
16:02what?
16:03I've gotten,
16:04I've gotten that note multiple times.
16:05I'm like a Catholic girl.
16:07I'm not shooting a porno.
16:09Like,
16:09what are you talking about?
16:10And I,
16:11but it was really like,
16:13we went back and forth that it was like a legal thing that it's like,
16:16and it's coming from a good place where it's like a lot of these,
16:19uh,
16:19but porn that you license.
16:21It's like,
16:21we don't know if they're totally consensual and what that sure,
16:24sure,
16:24sure.
16:25Um,
16:25and,
16:26but we went back and forth and then finally there was a list of kind of like on the legitimate,
16:31legitimate.
16:32There was a guy who was a producer.
16:35That they had some sort of relationship with it.
16:36They're like,
16:37look through his title.
16:38So while we were shooting in Puerto Rico,
16:40just anytime you'd see me on set that we weren't shooting,
16:43I was just like,
16:43and they're like,
16:44what are you doing?
16:45Get away from the set.
16:46And I was like,
16:47no,
16:47I got to find you.
16:48Did you have to pick the scene as well?
16:49Like you wanted to pick the scenes.
16:51Okay.
16:51Did I want,
16:51well,
16:52you know,
16:52the scenes that you wanted to show on the telly when,
16:54when in a hotel room,
16:55I've seen it.
16:56Yes.
16:56So you had to go,
16:57I want that.
16:58I want that one.
16:59And what the,
16:59the code.
17:00As it's happening at that point.
17:01So I,
17:05and that was the best one.
17:06And the lawyer was like,
17:07you know,
17:07we've never like,
17:09we've,
17:09we've fought,
17:10we've like had this come up on a lot of shows before and they always end up
17:15filming it themselves.
17:16And this was at universal.
17:18They were like,
17:19this,
17:19this will change a lot of things for,
17:21certainly for the gentleman who made all this pornography.
17:23He's so excited.
17:25I like that you keep calling him gentle.
17:29You're really like,
17:30I want to protect his integrity.
17:32This man who shot so many.
17:35So instead of second unit shooting it,
17:37now it's going to be the gentleman's.
17:38It's going to be,
17:39yeah,
17:39this is his moment.
17:40Gentleman's back catalog,
17:41which can be used for any.
17:42Wow.
17:43That's right.
17:44I had to send reference photos for the prosthetic penis.
17:47That was a weird email.
17:48Yeah.
17:48It's just like,
17:49I was like,
17:49making breakfast for your kids.
17:51Happy Saturday,
17:51everybody.
17:52Yeah.
17:53Where did you find your photos?
17:56I went to gentleman.com.
17:58Has anyone else ever gotten a note from legal that was wild?
18:05This is,
18:05this is,
18:06I can't get over this.
18:07Constant.
18:08Oh yeah.
18:09Pages.
18:10Yeah.
18:11Pages of them.
18:12Yeah.
18:12What's the craziest one?
18:14Oh,
18:15I mean,
18:15it's really hard to imagine.
18:17I mean,
18:17you know,
18:17it's names that drive you crazy.
18:19You can't ever clear any name.
18:20You spend a lot of time thinking about names and then you get back like,
18:23no,
18:23you can use.
18:24It has to be John Lavender.
18:26I'm not naming him that.
18:28It's the only one that's clear to the United States.
18:31We had,
18:32we had a note.
18:33Deborah Vance was on tour and she saw a flea market or a garage sale,
18:37a yard sale.
18:37And she stopped to buy a Chippendale tall boy chest.
18:42And we were told that the scrolling might be protected by the estate of the
18:47person that carved the chest in 1820.
18:51So we couldn't use it.
18:53Yeah.
18:53So that was a hard legal note.
18:55Yeah.
18:55I'm sorry.
18:56I'm laughing.
18:58It's funny.
18:59It's funny.
19:00We used it anyway.
19:01I think we got around it.
19:01I think we pushed back and it was okay.
19:05In the interest of moving away from penises.
19:11Steven adolescence is it's only four episodes.
19:15It's about one of the darkest subject matters imaginable.
19:19It's filmed like an art house feature.
19:21It doesn't scream commercial hit yet.
19:25But it is like the biggest streaming show in the UK ever.
19:29It's the first to top the charts.
19:30I think as of this week,
19:32it surpassed stranger things as the most watched English language title on
19:36Netflix.
19:36I mean,
19:37what is the lesson from that kind of surprise success?
19:40Because this really grabbed people.
19:43I think,
19:43look,
19:44if I'm really honest,
19:45it's a colloquial story.
19:48It's set,
19:48we were having this conversation just a minute ago.
19:50It's set in a fictitious place up north.
19:53We were true to the subject.
19:57It was made with honesty.
19:59It was made with integrity.
20:01And we never,
20:02and I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way,
20:04shape or form,
20:05but we didn't make it for it to be successful.
20:08We were under no obligation,
20:10neither to make it.
20:10So it was successful.
20:12Like I said,
20:13we made it with a lot of passion,
20:14a lot of love,
20:14and we were true to the story that we were telling.
20:19We made a little gem.
20:20We made a lovely little gem,
20:22and we had the most beautiful,
20:23glorious experience.
20:25Every single member of the cast and every single member of the crew,
20:28we had a wonderful summer.
20:29It was like a summer holiday.
20:31It was just a joyous occasion.
20:33Look,
20:33you know,
20:33we kind of threw the real book out the window.
20:36We only do two takes a day,
20:38you know,
20:39so it was a wonderful experience.
20:40It was,
20:41it was a performance,
20:43but we didn't know what would happen when we,
20:46when we released it.
20:47And we just threw this little,
20:48beautiful little gem into what we thought was a pond,
20:51and it created a tsunami.
20:52I think it just caught something in the zeitgeist.
20:54And,
20:55you know,
20:55a lot of parents really related to it.
20:58When we made it at the very beginning,
21:00you know,
21:00when I had the idea and I was explaining it to Jack,
21:03one of the main things,
21:04the overall objective was that I hoped it would create conversation with parents
21:08and children.
21:09And that was all we were asking for.
21:11Do you know what I mean?
21:11So maybe art is subjective.
21:14And,
21:14you know,
21:14we,
21:15we made something with honesty and with truth.
21:18And I,
21:18and you know,
21:19it's,
21:20it's a scary situation because like I explained before,
21:23when we were kids,
21:24we didn't have the internet.
21:25When I was upstairs in my room,
21:27I was either drawing pictures or,
21:29do you know what,
21:29playing with my Star Wars figures.
21:30I didn't have the possibility to reach and talk to people across the other end of the world,
21:37let alone,
21:37you know,
21:38the end of my street.
21:39So we wanted to look at that.
21:41And I think it just,
21:42I think,
21:42you know,
21:42people just,
21:43it just resonated for whatever reason.
21:45I don't know.
21:46I'm not a magician.
21:46I have no idea,
21:48but I think it was just because it was a simple story told with truth.
21:52And it was about human condition.
21:54Do you know what I mean?
21:54It was about us as a society and looking at all of those aspects,
21:58like I mentioned earlier on,
22:00I thought there was no magic formula.
22:03We just had the most glorious time making it.
22:05And I think that's,
22:07that's really all you can do.
22:08Do you know what I mean?
22:08We skipped away.
22:09We had a wonderful time.
22:10It was a heavy subject matter,
22:12but we had a lot of fun.
22:13I think it's also trust the audience.
22:15And I think to your point is that there's a lot of,
22:18there's a lot of time that we spend talking about,
22:22is this going to work or not work?
22:23The truth is write something that you really care about,
22:26that you feel with honesty and integrity and trust that the audience is
22:30intelligent and that they're,
22:33they have empathy that they have,
22:35and they will respond and they'll show up when they see that,
22:37that honesty in the material.
22:39So the,
22:40the audience is very sophisticated,
22:42very visually sophisticated,
22:43very narratively sophisticated.
22:45And I think we can trust them a lot more to come with us.
22:48It's having that respect for your audience as well.
22:51Do you know what I mean?
22:51You don't have to spoon feed them all the time.
22:53But in finding such a big audience,
22:56I'm wondering how this has changed the,
22:58the volume and the nature of the incoming calls you get.
23:02I mean,
23:03this has been a,
23:03a pretty high point in your career.
23:06Yeah,
23:07of course.
23:07But it was also the high point for all of us as a collective,
23:10do you know what I mean?
23:11It was a team game.
23:13What we did,
23:14you know,
23:14acting and making something is,
23:15it's not a game of golf.
23:17Do you know what I mean?
23:18There's a lot of people involved and the crew and everybody,
23:21you know,
23:21I mean,
23:22the amount of people that it goes into a production,
23:24as we all know,
23:25you know,
23:25it's,
23:26it's phenomenal.
23:26But for that particular thing,
23:28we,
23:29we were all on board and we all jumped on a train and we didn't get off it
23:33until it stopped.
23:34And everybody gave it 110%.
23:35Like I said,
23:36it was the most unique way of working.
23:38We did two takes a day.
23:41Ultimately we set,
23:42we set out and the way we,
23:43we worked as well,
23:44we rehearsed for a week with the script,
23:47just the actors and Phil,
23:48our wonderful director and Jack and,
23:50and myself,
23:51we worked with that script for the whole week and it was tight and everybody
23:54knew what they were saying,
23:55why they were saying it.
23:56We all understood the subtext.
23:58And then we had a wonderful week of creating a ballet,
24:01basically of choreo,
24:03choreographing where the camera was going and the technique.
24:05And then the week after that you shoot and you did two takes a day.
24:09So ultimately the,
24:10the overall idea was to have 10 takes at the end of the week.
24:13That didn't always,
24:15that wasn't always the case.
24:17I think for episodes three and four and episode two,
24:25they were all the last takes that we ever used.
24:28So for take for episode four,
24:31we used take 14,
24:32which is the very final take.
24:34So it was just a wonderful experience.
24:36Do you know what I mean?
24:38How many,
24:38how many,
24:39if you did 14 takes of the last episode,
24:41how many did you get all the way through?
24:44Maybe about,
24:45not about 10.
24:47Wow.
24:48Yeah.
24:48Just maybe,
24:49yeah,
24:4910.
24:49I think it was,
24:50because there was some kind of stops,
24:52technical elements.
24:53Like if the cup wasn't there,
24:54I tried to carry on and then,
24:55but that affected something else.
24:57Yeah.
24:57And that was just a simple mistake.
24:59Matt,
25:00I won't mind me saying,
25:01one time as we're going into the house,
25:03he's backing up and the door was shut.
25:06So we banged it straight in.
25:07So we have to go again.
25:08Yeah.
25:08But thankfully we're only like four or five minutes into the take.
25:11Yeah.
25:12And you can imagine the energy is palpable.
25:14No one wants to drop that ball.
25:16Do you know what I mean?
25:17Yeah.
25:17One minute one-er is stressful when it gets to you and then moves on,
25:20much less 14.
25:22I mean,
25:22that's,
25:23I also remark at all of the actors,
25:26even the background actors are so committed and so good and are so on.
25:32It's so,
25:32it's such a,
25:33it's such a well-built world.
25:35I mean,
25:35did you audition all of the background as well?
25:37Did they all read for those roles?
25:38We did.
25:39Most,
25:40the,
25:41the actors,
25:42who were the kids in the school,
25:43most of them.
25:44Yeah.
25:44We,
25:44we,
25:44we auditioned all of those.
25:46But then what another wonderful idea again,
25:49which was,
25:49you know,
25:49that was part of the production elements and,
25:52and Phil and Mark as well.
25:54What we kind of did was the school we used 150 kids.
25:58It's their school.
25:59So they had ownership of it.
26:01You know what I mean?
26:01It was their school.
26:02Yeah.
26:02Yeah.
26:02So they,
26:03so it was like,
26:04just go to class.
26:05That's like,
26:05okay.
26:06And when you hear the fire alarm,
26:07because we walked around with the headmaster,
26:09we went right through the school.
26:10When they have a fire alarm,
26:11they go to this point.
26:13So one of those kids knew where they were going.
26:15Do you know what I mean?
26:16But to also not look at the lens.
26:17You know what I mean?
26:17Exactly.
26:18It's just like for those kids.
26:19I mean,
26:19really remarkable.
26:20It was just,
26:21it was a wonderful,
26:22wonderful thing that we,
26:23we created.
26:24And that little play,
26:25punting fracked.
26:26It really affected the town.
26:28And every single person felt like they had an ownership of it.
26:31Do you know what I mean?
26:32Oh.
26:33It was,
26:34yeah.
26:34I don't know what else to say apart from it.
26:36It was just,
26:36it was,
26:37it was a glorious experience.
26:39I would have been so afraid that I,
26:41if I were like on the crew,
26:43that you have to be in season two.
26:46You have to be in,
26:47like have a two line role.
26:49You know,
26:49see how you do.
26:50I would go to bed,
26:51like having nightmares and I would,
26:53I would trip.
26:53Anyway,
26:54sorry.
26:54Brett and Liz,
26:56you're both here for comedies about death that are very funny,
26:59but also have incredibly heartbreaking moments.
27:02They work in their genre.
27:04There's been a lot of critiques about like,
27:07what is a comedy right now?
27:10And I'm just wondering,
27:10like,
27:11how do you walk the line in your writer's room of not like veering too far
27:16into one direction or another?
27:17Like,
27:17how do you strike a tonal balance like that?
27:20Cause it is a tightrope walk.
27:23Up to you.
27:24I mean,
27:28look,
27:29me and Bill Lawrence and Jason Segal co-created the show and it was always
27:34like a strict rule that this is a comedy,
27:37but it's got,
27:38we have a lot of jokes in it and we have an amazing writer's room who pitch
27:43a million jokes.
27:44I think I was thinking,
27:46I think not consciously,
27:48but I think that basically we write it as a drama and then fill it with
27:52jokes.
27:52I sort of think that's it.
27:54And I think in terms of the tone,
27:58it's like instinctual or it's,
28:01or we have a shared agreement of what is the right amount of funny and sad.
28:09And when something's too sad,
28:11you can't,
28:12it won't be funny again.
28:13And if it's too funny,
28:14if it's too broad,
28:15we can't come back.
28:16You know what I mean?
28:16There's a,
28:16there's a middle ground and you're,
28:18and it isn't that hard to find.
28:20Cause I think it is our,
28:21how we see the world.
28:23Anyway,
28:23it's funny and sad.
28:25You know what I mean?
28:26Is that fair?
28:27You tell me.
28:28Yeah,
28:29that was kind of,
28:30I'm speaking for both.
28:31He was speaking for both.
28:33Yeah.
28:33Yeah.
28:34Yeah.
28:34I think I really nailed that.
28:40Please.
28:41Mindy.
28:42Oh,
28:42no.
28:44She's no,
28:45she doesn't want to.
28:48Mindy,
28:48you were so weird when you spoke for Liz.
28:53Why did you silence her?
28:55Were you silenced?
28:57I know.
28:59You feel comfortable with that answer,
29:01right?
29:01I thought you were.
29:02Yes,
29:02I'm totally.
29:03Oh my gosh.
29:05Mindy,
29:06you were an actress.
29:08You were a household name,
29:09but you've done a remarkable job.
29:12Once someone mentioned,
29:14no,
29:14thank you.
29:15You've done a remarkable job of avoiding appearing in the series.
29:18that you write and produce since the Mindy project.
29:21And that can't be from a lack of executive pressure in certain scenarios.
29:27Because like you on camera can help sell a show.
29:31So how did you establish those boundaries to keep writing and producing largely
29:36separate from your acting work?
29:39You know,
29:40what I liked about the way you asked the question is that you made it sound like
29:44a conscious decision.
29:47And I,
29:47you know,
29:47the truth,
29:48I love performing.
29:49You know,
29:50I,
29:51I,
29:52after we did never have I ever,
29:53which was a show literally about an Indian family in Southern California,
29:56and I wasn't in it.
29:58And I liked how it came out.
29:59I was like,
30:00well,
30:00if I'm not in that show where it'd be just very easy to incorporate me,
30:04then maybe I shouldn't be in the shows,
30:07you know,
30:07but it's not like I don't think about it.
30:08And especially on running point,
30:10the cast is so fun and the set is so fun.
30:13And it's like Kate Hudson,
30:15you know,
30:15I've admired her for the long,
30:18I almost said when I was a kid,
30:19but that made her sound older.
30:21You were the same age.
30:22And I was a young child watching her and her comedies.
30:25No,
30:26but she's so much older than me.
30:29And she,
30:29I looked up to her as a mentor.
30:31No,
30:31we're exactly the same age,
30:32but I,
30:32her and Jude Harbor and Justin Theroux.
30:35And,
30:35you know,
30:35I love the cast and I get jealous.
30:38I'll watch it.
30:39And Ike and I,
30:40Ike Barinholtz and David Stassen,
30:42who isn't a performer.
30:42Ike and I,
30:43you know,
30:44he gets to go do the studio,
30:45which is another amazing show,
30:47but I just sit there wishing I could be on screen.
30:50So to answer your question,
30:51I'm mad about it.
30:53And I wish I could do it.
30:54No,
30:54I,
30:55I,
30:55I think,
30:57and this is not true,
30:59but in my mind,
31:00I was like,
31:00oh,
31:00maybe it's classier that I'm not doing it,
31:04but there have been times,
31:05I don't know,
31:06Liz,
31:06if you feel,
31:06Tracy,
31:07you feel this way,
31:07because you both performed,
31:08where you want to Alfred Hitchcock it,
31:10where I come out at the beginning
31:11and talk about,
31:14talk about the themes of the show
31:15and then disappear.
31:16Yeah.
31:18I'd like to be in it.
31:19Paul,
31:19I really want to talk about Cher.
31:21Oh,
31:21great.
31:22Let's get into it.
31:23Your attempts to get Cher on Hacks
31:26prompted her to reject you with a,
31:28I don't want to do it.
31:30Yes.
31:31And then.
31:31She was very straightforward.
31:33Yeah.
31:34No,
31:34no.
31:35We,
31:35we asked her in season
31:37and I actually told the story wrong before.
31:39We asked her in season three
31:41and then again this season.
31:44And we were told that she has a ice cream brand
31:47called Cher Lotto.
31:49Cher's gelato.
31:50And her manager said,
31:51look,
31:51if you write in Cher Lotto,
31:52she's in.
31:53And so we said,
31:53great.
31:54And so we wrote a commercial for Cher Lotto.
31:56Debra Vance was going to go to the Cher Lotto factory.
31:58She was going to taste all the Cher Lotto.
31:59In our world,
32:01there was.
32:01And it was gorgeous.
32:02And it was great.
32:04Debra was going to be forced to wear a hairnet.
32:06She didn't want to,
32:06but it was great,
32:07you know,
32:07and then at the end,
32:09Cher was going to say,
32:10I just want you to get extra calories.
32:12I'm not doing your show
32:13because you stole my backup dancers in the eighties.
32:15So F off.
32:16Anyway,
32:17we got a pass
32:19and we get a lot of passes that are very nice.
32:22You know,
32:22people are like,
32:23Oh,
32:24love the show,
32:24but I'm shooting at a tower.
32:26Who else has passed?
32:27Can I know?
32:27I passed.
32:30Actually,
32:31this wasn't,
32:31this wasn't,
32:32this wasn't for,
32:32for hacks,
32:33but we did get,
32:34Harvey Bardem passed in the best way.
32:36He said,
32:36I cannot say yes right now,
32:37which is Spanish for no.
32:40So,
32:40but we said to Cher's manager,
32:42is there any feedback?
32:44Can we change the script?
32:45Anything we should know?
32:46And she said,
32:46yeah,
32:47she,
32:47she emailed me and I quote,
32:49I don't want to do it.
32:51She just didn't want to do it,
32:52which I guess what,
32:53if anybody can say,
32:53I don't want to do it,
32:54it's Cher.
32:54So,
32:55yeah.
32:56So,
32:56in writing the,
32:57I don't want to do it,
32:58into season four,
33:00about her doing the show within show.
33:03Yes.
33:04Are you still courting her?
33:05Is that,
33:06is that a signal to her?
33:07Are you just having fun?
33:09We're just having fun.
33:10We're just having fun.
33:11We're just trying to be truthful,
33:13you know,
33:13and represent the world we live in.
33:16Honestly.
33:16You used what you said.
33:17That's exactly right.
33:18We use the truth.
33:19It's about,
33:19it's about truth and comedy.
33:21And so,
33:21we said,
33:22we're going to use Cher's words.
33:23We're going to honor her.
33:23We're not going to silence her.
33:24We're going to honor her.
33:26Did you have permission?
33:28No.
33:29No.
33:30The celebrity cameos this season were very good.
33:33Well,
33:33thank you.
33:33Kristen Bell,
33:34Jimmy.
33:35Yes.
33:36It's really great.
33:37Carol Burnett.
33:38Carol Burnett.
33:39Yes.
33:39All of whom were very,
33:42very kind to do it.
33:43Yeah.
33:44They said yes,
33:45which was great,
33:46which I like more than no.
33:48Yeah.
33:48Who else has had a guest star ovation go wrong or not come through?
33:56Not,
33:56not on this show.
33:57I mean,
33:57we,
33:58like,
33:58we can talk about your whole career.
34:00Yeah.
34:00I mean,
34:01this show was like in such an incredible,
34:06I mean,
34:06we just felt so lucky.
34:07Like,
34:07you know,
34:08Tina was created it with us and so was starring in it.
34:11So,
34:11you know,
34:11it obviously drew a lot of great people,
34:14but we got Steve Carell and Coleman Domingo and Will Forte and Carrie
34:17Kenny that,
34:18you know,
34:19it was the greatest cast I've ever written anything for.
34:23It was like such a,
34:24you know,
34:25it just felt like such a exciting opportunity to be able to see these great
34:30actors do like great comedy.
34:31I have written on other shows.
34:34I like,
34:35I,
34:35I did a reboot of Saved by the Bell where we were trying to get a,
34:41a,
34:41or I feel like this was maybe like a,
34:43a directive we got from Universal that we were trying to get someone from
34:46the voice.
34:47And it was like,
34:48you know,
34:48we couldn't get Adam Levine.
34:49And so we'll take someone out.
34:50And it kept going down until finally they were like,
34:53okay,
34:53no one wants to do it.
34:55We can get you the chair,
34:57the chair.
34:59And honestly,
35:00we were like,
35:01okay,
35:02so wait,
35:03but guys,
35:04so we wrote it in that it was like the chair from the,
35:07I don't even remember what the scene was,
35:08the chair from the voice is there.
35:10And we had to build,
35:10the chairs from the voice are very heavy.
35:12And we had to build a special stage that was like maybe a little expensive.
35:15So it could hold the chair and Mikey,
35:18the day,
35:19the day of,
35:20we got a call from the voice.
35:22The chair is not coming.
35:24The chair is not coming.
35:27The chair canceled.
35:28And so,
35:29and I don't remember when we had the day of,
35:32it was like my darkest moment in Hollywood.
35:35You'll do that.
35:36I'm from the chair,
35:38but not,
35:39but look at me now.
35:41Who cares chair?
35:42The chair was on a bender.
35:45Yeah.
35:46She is out of control.
35:50Tracy,
35:51we were,
35:51we were speaking with your collaborator,
35:55Tina Fey.
35:56And she said that one of your strengths as a writer is that you have a great
35:59feel for what's corny and that you're quick to call bullshit.
36:03So I'm wondering,
36:04how do you deploy that kind of rejection in the room?
36:08Because corny and bullshit are,
36:11they could be interpreted.
36:12Yeah.
36:13Yeah.
36:13As rude,
36:14rude to say that in the room to Tina Fey.
36:16You know,
36:17I think that's a really nice compliment.
36:18I've worked with her for a really long time.
36:20She gave me my first job writing on 30 rock and produced a show I did for
36:26NBC.
36:26Like we've worked together for a long time.
36:28And I think she and I really know each other and trust each other.
36:31And I think with this show,
36:33especially like I,
36:34you know,
36:35it was a new kind of mode of writing and we wanted it to be really more
36:41truthful than other stuff we've written and to feel really human and to
36:45feel really observational about marriage and long friendships.
36:49And we wanted people to watch it and be like,
36:52Oh my God,
36:53my husband and I are exactly like this.
36:55And,
36:55and I think that only works if you are writing things that feel really
37:01true.
37:02And,
37:02and,
37:02you know,
37:03and so I think that that's,
37:06you know,
37:07that's something in the room.
37:09I think we all try to do is just,
37:12is this the funniest?
37:14Is this the,
37:14you know,
37:15is this like just a weird choice or is this the choice that feels like it
37:20will make people watching be like,
37:22Oh,
37:23I,
37:23that resonates.
37:24That's me.
37:25You know?
37:25So I,
37:25I think that that impulse is,
37:29you know,
37:29is something I try to do.
37:30And I think that's a compliment.
37:32I think.
37:35One thing you all have in common is that you're working right now.
37:38A lot of people aren't.
37:39I'm wondering what's the most worrying conversation that you've had with an
37:44executive this year or in the last year,
37:47I guess.
37:50I don't want to name names,
37:52but every time I suggest shooting in Los Angeles,
37:55somebody says,
37:56we don't even want to budget it.
37:57You can't afford to shoot.
37:59It's become a,
37:59it's become a,
38:00a truism that you can't do it.
38:04And that's not true.
38:05I mean,
38:05we're shooting the pit in Los Angeles.
38:06And so it's,
38:10those are the kinds of things that,
38:11you know,
38:11that you have to go to a foreign country.
38:13There's,
38:14you know,
38:14wonderful work that's being done in it,
38:16but it's very difficult in Los Angeles for people.
38:19So,
38:20yeah,
38:20there is a general sense that it can't,
38:23that you can't afford to do it.
38:24So we have to prove to everybody again that we can.
38:27And New York too.
38:28Like you're penalized for shooting in America.
38:33Toxin censors.
38:35There are,
38:36they're just not enough.
38:38Yeah.
38:39Yeah.
38:39So I think that's the thing that's worried me the most is that we may hollow out a lot of our really talented crew who are moving and leaving town and,
38:50and because they can't work in the place where,
38:53I mean,
38:54that doesn't make any sense.
38:55It doesn't make any sense.
38:56Yeah.
38:57That's ridiculous.
38:58Yeah.
38:59And in New York,
39:00it's,
39:00you know,
39:01and now even Atlanta,
39:03there's not enough work in Atlanta.
39:04Everything's kind of moving out.
39:05So,
39:05and we're going to hollow out the industry of a lot of the people that we actually really need,
39:09the craftspeople,
39:10the talent that we need.
39:12So that's been the most concerning thing that I've heard this year.
39:15I mean,
39:16not to double down on the darkness,
39:17but I,
39:19it was the Milken Institute just this week,
39:21uh,
39:22claimed this trend of like production loss in Los Angeles is like at the significant risk of becoming irreversible at this point.
39:30Um,
39:31and so the four of you who are shooting your shows in Los Angeles,
39:35what's your advice for like producers trying to like economically leverage this with all this pressure to not shoot here,
39:44um,
39:45outside of just like being like Kate Hudson's the star and she wants to be here.
39:51I think there's,
39:54um,
39:56as writers,
39:56those of us who are very involved in the writing of the shows is we have to be responsible to how we write to allow you to actually shoot,
40:03um,
40:04and to shoot in responsible ways where you can then do it financially.
40:07That makes sense.
40:08So,
40:09uh,
40:09it kind of starts with us and saying,
40:12we're going to design a show that we can actually,
40:15what's the budget that you would like to do it for.
40:17We want to do it here because we have the craftspeople here or in New York or,
40:22uh,
40:22and so let us design to that number and write to that number so that we can actually do the show that we want to do in a place.
40:30Because you've got,
40:32you know,
40:32on the pit as an example,
40:33we had 325 speaking parts in the first 15 episodes.
40:38So you're not going to do that in Atlanta or Toronto.
40:42You need to be someplace where you have 300 and,
40:44you know,
40:45or 750 actors that you can bring in for those parts.
40:48Same thing with London,
40:49same thing with New York.
40:50You,
40:50you need,
40:51you have a pool of people who are talented.
40:53And so design shows back into what you can actually do in the places that you want to shoot them that allow people to have their families.
41:00And actors that have their families in and not be on the road the whole time.
41:04And,
41:04you know,
41:04because it's very difficult for,
41:06uh,
41:07for a crew and cast to,
41:09you know,
41:10not be at home.
41:11Yeah.
41:11To me,
41:12what I think is a little bit scary about the industry now is that how difficult it is,
41:17I think,
41:18to green light shows without established stars.
41:20And to me,
41:22breaking through is so hard.
41:24And we had a little,
41:26um,
41:27a little window there where we were seeing a lot of shows where it was like the premise or the script was so good.
41:32And there was enough money flowing that you get those green light.
41:34And some of my favorite experiences on stage have been like,
41:39you know,
41:39the office didn't have that many,
41:41like Steve was known,
41:42but everyone is pretty unknown when the,
41:44when we did the remake of the office and like two of my more recent shows have been that way.
41:50Like running point is great because it has so many well-known established stars.
41:53But I think that is,
41:56it's so fun discovering talent and discovering people that don't normally get seen.
42:01And I think that's just becoming a little bit harder.
42:05I think it's important and it's integral that we create opportunities.
42:08You have to create opportunities.
42:10Do you know what I mean?
42:11And you should be able to do that in the place where you,
42:13where you're working.
42:14You have to be able to create,
42:15create those opportunities for young people,
42:18not just young people now,
42:19but you know,
42:20people of our own age as well,
42:22who,
42:22who are still struggling.
42:23They were still on that kind of daily trying to find a job.
42:26You have to,
42:26it's,
42:27it's integral.
42:27You have to support those people and you have to create those opportunities.
42:32I love your idea.
42:33So then technically what would we do?
42:35We go to a studio and say,
42:36okay,
42:36so what's your budget for this thing?
42:38What do you want to spend?
42:38Would you present it first and say,
42:39this is what we want it to be.
42:41And then let me decide how I figure out where to shoot.
42:44I just,
42:44I'm just in the middle of that right now for New York.
42:47And you know,
42:48it's just continue to like,
42:49but if you shoot here,
42:50you're going to get this many more days.
42:53And you know,
42:54you just kind of like sticking to it.
42:55You can't separate out the quality of the people that you can hire to do the job
43:00from the eventual success of the show.
43:02And I think there's a disconnect in between sometimes between that.
43:06And the,
43:08you know,
43:08when you're in a place where you can call upon a number of really talented people,
43:12you're going to have a better show.
43:14It is part of the,
43:16it's part of the mix that gives you the show that you want to have.
43:20It's also that catch 22 situation now to go back to what you're saying.
43:23Yes,
43:24you need a star,
43:25but how are you going to allow these other people to try and become stars,
43:28which I think is a dying thing anyway,
43:29personally,
43:30it's about the quality of the actor and it should always be about the quality of
43:34the actor.
43:34Do you know what I mean?
43:35But how do we elevate those people to give them the opportunity to play,
43:39to play those roles?
43:40We have to surely.
43:42And it is so difficult now when so many things are subscriber based and they
43:46don't have DVD sales to pay for a season of TV and they have subscribers only,
43:50and they need a name that people recognize.
43:52And it's really one of the scariest things that was said to me was a writer of
43:56ours,
43:57who's a comedy writer and has been writing on hacks and is fantastic.
44:00Their agent said to,
44:01um,
44:01to them,
44:03what about writing a drama?
44:04Because it's easier in some ways to sell a drama because comedy isn't always
44:08international.
44:08It doesn't always get the same audience that dramas can get.
44:12And that to me is someone who makes a show about making comedy is really
44:16scary because I think a lot of my favorite performers are comedians that were
44:24broken doing comedy.
44:26You know,
44:26um,
44:27comedy central doesn't exist.
44:28They don't do originals anymore.
44:29And that broke so many people.
44:31So that to me is a really scary thing too.
44:33And it is,
44:34it all goes back to the fact that now corporations can't make a small profit.
44:38They have to grow their profit every year.
44:40And it's absolutely obscene that the only way to do that is to outsource labor and
44:45to push down on the art.
44:47So I think it's all like part and parcel of the same thing,
44:50which is,
44:50you know,
44:52this was an industry that was lucrative for a century and made money,
44:57made people money and people shared in the profit of that money.
44:59And now it's,
45:00it's a very different industry that has to grow every single year so that the
45:07shareholders and the stock value goes up.
45:10It's really a,
45:11it's a,
45:11it is a scary thing.
45:11And I think it's not just in show business,
45:14but it's also,
45:14it's everywhere,
45:15you know,
45:15I mean,
45:16this is obvious,
45:16but it is scary.
45:19I also think network pilots used to really like be,
45:23you know,
45:23even the ones that didn't go,
45:25it was like,
45:26you found a lot of young actors and that was like,
45:29and you know,
45:31I've had plenty that didn't go,
45:34but like,
45:35that was my entry into it,
45:36you know.
45:37At least you were given the opportunity.
45:39Yeah.
45:39Yeah.
45:40And I learned a lot.
45:41And I do think it's incumbent upon all of us now who've had some success to
45:45remember how we got to that success and how it came up.
45:49And it makes certain that we're bringing along and training and giving
45:53opportunities.
45:54And,
45:54and,
45:55you know,
45:55that's an essential part of the job is,
45:57you know,
45:58we've got,
45:58you know,
45:59on,
45:59on the pit,
46:00we've got Noah,
46:00who's fantastic.
46:02And he was that person who could drive it forward.
46:04And then everybody else has either been on a lot of things,
46:07but you don't know who they are or they were brand new and came out of the
46:10theater.
46:11And,
46:11and now we've made,
46:13I don't know about stars.
46:14I don't know what a star is or not,
46:16but,
46:16but we're started their careers.
46:18That's part of our responsibility for writers,
46:20for technicians,
46:21for actors,
46:22for we're in that place now where it's our responsibility and other people did
46:26it for us.
46:27Right.
46:28So we have to wrap things up in a sec,
46:30but I'm wondering what's the professional call you all still dream of
46:34getting.
46:35I want to be on the gilded age as one of those catty women.
46:41That's like,
46:42they're not rich enough to talk to.
46:44Do you know what I mean?
46:44Like,
46:44I want to be,
46:46I don't know that.
46:46I don't think Indian people were in the United States that it wouldn't make
46:49any sense,
46:50but I like one of those Julian fellows dramas to be one of the people
46:55that's gossiping about the other people.
46:58There could have been a secret Indian Astor.
47:01So I,
47:02I just,
47:03I don't know if you feel this way,
47:04but I love things that I don't understand,
47:08like how they were made.
47:09So,
47:10you know,
47:10like,
47:11you know,
47:11particularly with the pit and then with adolescence,
47:15you watch it and you're like,
47:16you feel the giddiness of like,
47:17Oh,
47:18I think I'm learning something.
47:19And you know,
47:20that you can get in a rut,
47:22especially in comedy world where you're like,
47:24Oh,
47:24is this feel comfortable and familiar?
47:26And I've done this before.
47:27And so to me,
47:29you know,
47:30what you're doing with your creative partners and you are like,
47:33Julian fellows,
47:33you're like,
47:33wow.
47:34Like,
47:34you know,
47:34anything period.
47:35I,
47:35I find that very exciting.
47:37I'd like to have a call that started with,
47:40we have no notes.
47:42You get notes.
47:43You get a lot of notes.
47:45What do you think happens?
47:46Yeah.
47:47Of course I get a lot of notes.
47:48That makes me feel great.
47:49Pages of notes.
47:50Cause I'm always on a notes club and I'm like,
47:52fucking John Wells doesn't get it.
47:53It never stops.
47:56I'm so,
47:57I'm sorry for you and selfishly happy.
48:00I do think about you a lot.
48:02Like when I'm failing in the writer's room and I'm like,
48:04John Wells wouldn't do that.
48:07Oh,
48:08no,
48:08you fail all the time.
48:09That's how,
48:10you know,
48:10the writer's room is kind of working as you fail.
48:12Cause eventually if you fail enough in the writer's room,
48:14then something.
48:15Yeah.
48:16But that moment of utter despair.
48:18I know,
48:18but you feel,
48:19you really feel that?
48:20Like you still feel that when you,
48:22when you can't break something.
48:24But it's hard to remember that.
48:26You always get back there and then you're like,
48:28it's not going to work this time.
48:29It can be really hard because you have to get to the despair.
48:32You got to get to the breakthrough.
48:33And it's so hard.
48:35It's so hard.
48:36Like the third time you can't break.
48:38Yeah.
48:38Yeah.
48:39Like maybe I'll get it tomorrow.
48:42Yeah.
48:42Maybe somebody else will come up with an idea.
48:44Should we talk about something else?
48:45Yeah.
48:46Yeah.
48:47Cause we all suck right now.
48:49We're all terrible.
48:50They're not joining in.
48:51They're like,
48:51we,
48:52they're like,
48:52we suffer.
48:56It's the art of living suffering.
48:58But people in the UK don't talk about it.
48:59They're suffering,
49:00you know?
49:00Yeah.
49:01Right.
49:01No one sucks.
49:02Real,
49:03real quick.
49:04Last question.
49:05What is the last series that you watched that made you really?
49:09I don't know about jealous.
49:14Not,
49:14not jealous.
49:15I don't,
49:15not jealousy.
49:17I watched it.
49:19Your series.
49:20Your series.
49:21I watched.
49:21And I was,
49:22I was blown away by the beauty of it and how funny it was.
49:26And just how wonderful it was.
49:28And,
49:28and to,
49:29to,
49:29like I said,
49:31that,
49:31that last,
49:32that final sequence will stick with me because it was so beautifully done.
49:37And it's stories that I've been told by my wife and by my father,
49:40who was there when my mom took her last breaths and how they described it to me.
49:45I got to see that.
49:46So,
49:46I,
49:46I think,
49:47I agree that it's not really jealous so much as you,
49:51I actually feel like,
49:53thank you.
49:54I get,
49:55I get to end of something.
49:56I just go like,
49:57I don't feel like,
49:58oh,
49:58I wish I could have done that so much as I feel like I,
50:01I want to watch things and I want to love.
50:03John,
50:03I'm jealous of every television show I watch.
50:06You feel this way too.
50:07It's just this feeling of like,
50:10you know,
50:10I mean,
50:11that scene,
50:11my,
50:11you know,
50:12I was there when my father died and that's exactly what happened.
50:15I told you in the hallway outside.
50:16That's exactly what happened.
50:17But watching TV is like watching auditions.
50:20You,
50:21you,
50:21when you're on the other side,
50:22you're like,
50:22oh,
50:22they hate me.
50:23And you're like,
50:23I just want it to be good.
50:25Right.
50:26And so when I watch TV,
50:27I'm like,
50:27I just want this to be good.
50:30I think when jealousy comes in is when something that you think is not that great is getting a lot of praise.
50:35Right.
50:36That's a whole separate thing,
50:37which is like,
50:38why are they saying that's so good?
50:40It's like,
50:40just okay.
50:41But,
50:42you know,
50:42but yeah,
50:44I mean,
50:45I,
50:46I,
50:46I,
50:47I,
50:48uh,
50:48okay.
50:49The last thing,
50:50the question is the last thing that makes us jealous.
50:53Is that what you said?
50:53No,
50:53the last show you watched that you were just like,
50:55damn.
50:57You know,
50:58I,
50:58you know,
50:58obviously we're in this time where the,
51:01the,
51:01the wonder of watching Mike White braved into the white Lotus is so amazing.
51:06And I remember watching enlightened 10 or 12 years ago,
51:11which is just so beautiful.
51:14And it's about difficult women.
51:17Which is something I love to watch,
51:19but it had so much humanity.
51:20And it was so funny.
51:22Like Laura Dern in that role,
51:24you know,
51:25she's won a million awards for so many roles,
51:28but enlightened really was something.
51:30So it really knocked me out.
51:32So it really knocked me out.
51:32And also the,
51:34the,
51:35I just wanted to say that,
51:36um,
51:37thank you.
51:39Thank you for everyone's work at this table,
51:44but I was also the,
51:46the scene or the episode,
51:48uh,
51:49after the shooting,
51:51I,
51:51I,
51:52I just,
51:53I guess like both of your shows,
51:56just as a parent,
51:56I was like,
51:57it felt like such a,
52:00it felt like new ways of getting people to pay attention to things that people desperately need to pay attention to.
52:07And that episode after the school shooting,
52:08the,
52:10the way that you didn't kind of like proselytize about guns or,
52:16I mean,
52:16that it was just the,
52:17the actual human cost of these events.
52:21I just,
52:22and,
52:23and it was nonstop in this kind of like perfect way of just like,
52:29this is what,
52:29this is what this is.
52:30I just,
52:31I don't,
52:31I was like so blown away by that.
52:35And,
52:35um,
52:37yeah,
52:37I,
52:37I just feel,
52:39I do,
52:40I feel,
52:40I feel grateful.
52:42I don't feel jealous.
52:43I,
52:44I think grateful is a beautiful place to end this.
52:46Um,
52:47thank you all so much for doing this.
52:49Thank you all for coming.
52:51Um,
52:52this has been fantastic.
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