- 2025/6/14
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娱乐文字稿
00:00I remember someone saying to me,
00:01There is this offer come in for you to go and play
00:04An elf in New Zealand.
00:06I went,Oh an elf in New Zealand?
00:08I said what's the story?
00:11And they said it was from The Lord of the Rings.
00:12I went,Oh someone's make The Lord of the Rings.
00:15And I said,Who's directing it?
00:16Peter Jackson.
00:17I stopped speaking and they said,
00:19Yeah you don't want to do that do you?
00:21They didn't realize why I wasn't speaking.
00:23It was like the perfect job.
00:30《The Aviator》
00:40《I read in the magazines that you play golf》
00:42《On occasion》
00:44《How about Nine Holes》
00:48《Now Mr. Hughes》
00:51《If it would be convenient, Miss Hepburn》
00:54《I played Katharine Hepburn》
00:56《In The Aviator》
00:57《Howard Hughes》
00:59and they obviously had a very public
01:01although they tried to keep it clandestine love affair
01:04his love of cinema, her love of daring
01:07I remember I was working on a western with Ron Howard
01:11I had just had a baby and my eldest was learning to walk in the snow
01:15and it was kind of idyllic
01:16and I was riding out with Marlboro men every day
01:18and it doesn't get much better than this
01:20and then I got a call saying that Martin Scorsese was trying to get hold of me
01:24he had a script he wanted to send me
01:26and I nearly buckled at the knees
01:29I think I was so nervous talking to him
01:31because I knew whatever it was he was asking me to do
01:35I was going to say yes
01:36and then it was to play Katharine Hepburn
01:38and I went, okay, this is the end of my career
01:41the film will be amazing because he's, you know, he's the maestro
01:45but yeah, I was terrified
01:47I remember the first time I saw Sylvia Scarlett
01:49and I was just blown away
01:52and then seeing Philadelphia's story
01:54and all of those fantastic screwball comedies
01:58How are you, dear?
01:59Much better now that you're here
02:00Ah, I guess this must be love, huh?
02:02Your guess is correct, Mr. Conner
02:03I'm just his fateful old dog, Trey
02:05She's so extraordinary
02:07there was no one like her
02:08What's that on the steering wheel?
02:10Cellophane
02:12If you had any idea of the crap that people carry around on their hands
02:15What kind of crap?
02:18You don't want to know
02:20Well, the first thing is you have to attack the most obvious parts of the character
02:26like the way they move, the way they speak
02:28which was so distinctive with Hepburn
02:30but then the most important thing is you've got to say to the director
02:33what's the world that I'm entering
02:36because this is not a film about Katharine Hepburn
02:39I had to fit into the story that he was telling
02:42and he was so fantastic the way he said to me
02:45You look great blonde, you can just be blonde
02:47and you don't have to sound like her
02:49I mean, gosh, her voice was so annoying
02:51you know, he was just trying to make me feel better
02:53and it was so liberating that he said that to me
02:55because it just removed any residual feeling that I would have to get it right
03:01I then just said to myself
03:03I'm playing a character in a Martin Scorsese film
03:06but the wonderful thing that Scorsese does
03:08and I'm sure he does it with all of his films
03:10is that he screened a set of films
03:13that had an energy to how he wanted me to play the character
03:17so he screened about four or five different films
03:19that gave us a tone and a texture and a world in which to play
03:22he wanted the first entry of Hepburn into the story
03:25to sort of knock your head back
03:27Follow through is everything in golf, just like life
03:29ha ha, don't you mind?
03:31In the same way that she must have done that with audiences
03:35the first time they'd seen her, the energy that she brought onto screen
03:38I adore the theatre, only alive on stage
03:41I'll teach you, we'll see some Ibsen
03:43if the Republicans have an outlaw at him by now
03:45ha ha, you're not a Republican are you?
03:47Couldn't abide that, how did you vote in 32?
03:49Well I didn't
03:50You must, it's your sacred franchise
03:52But what was when I saw the film, what I loved seeing
03:55was obviously when Hepburn and Howard Hughes are broken up
03:58and he's locked himself in his screening room
04:01and obviously when I played that scene with Leo
04:03he was on the other side of the door
04:05so I never saw his side of it
04:07just what I imagined
04:09because even his voice was so painful to listen to
04:12I can't sweetie
04:18You mean you won't?
04:19and then to see the visual on the other side was really heartbreaking
04:28Lord of the Rings
04:30Who could have known?
04:31Except all of us fanboys and girls
04:34I mean I was there to work with Peter Jackson
04:36I was such a huge fan of his work
04:39and his reverence and his, you know
04:42his love of kind of the ugly side of things
04:45You were a fan of his horror works
04:47I grew up on horror
04:49and so all of that Braindead stuff
04:51I mean I just absolutely loved it
04:54I loved it
04:55and it was so funny
04:57you know as well as being so revolting and creepy
05:02Party's over
05:06And so imagining his sensibility on those stories
05:09which were sort of like a holy grail
05:13of a certain aspect of the literary canon
05:17I thought this is going to be really
05:19because you have to ask yourself
05:21when you're adapting something so beloved
05:24and that has such a particular and special place for people
05:27why, what are you going to do with it?
05:30But who could have known that it would have taken off in the way that it did?
05:34First voice, the very first thing we hear
05:36Yes!
05:37It began with the forging of the great rings
05:40Three were given to the elves
05:43Immortal, wisest and fairest of all beings
05:47I think it was in the original scripts
05:51But I don't think I fully computed that it would be the first thing
05:56because when you first pick up a script to read it
05:58you're reading the story
05:59They were all very interested in
06:01which I found really exciting
06:03the fact that in order to become a force for good
06:08or positive strength
06:10you have to have confronted the darkness within
06:13and so they were very interested
06:14even though I don't think the book necessarily leans into that heavily
06:18although they found their Tolkien justifications for it
06:21They were interested in the small way
06:23you know the bit that I'm in
06:25and teasing apart the idea of the darkness that could have been unleashed in her
06:30that she too has been tempted by the ring
06:32I remember filming that not knowing
06:35you know because Pete was kind of just experimenting with it
06:37and not knowing that necessarily it was going to be in the final film
06:40It gives so much depth to the character
06:42Yeah I think so, yeah
06:43How was your experience with The Hobbit coming back to the character?
06:47Oh well I mean I knew there wasn't a snowflakes chance in hell
06:50and me being reprising my role in that
06:52but I sent kind of a jokey email to Pete saying
06:55you know if you want to put Galadriel in I'm free I'll come over
06:59you know sail my canoe
07:01But I loved it, I loved it
07:03It was really special
07:04I mean I was there for three weeks on The Lord of the Rings
07:07and I think I might have been, you know, on The Hobbit
07:10might have been there three days
07:11Oh
07:12But it was really special nonetheless, yeah
07:14Did you sign on when Guillermo del Toro was still attached or?
07:17Yeah, yeah I think he was originally, yeah
07:20Yeah, it's still out there in my mind
07:22this alternate universe where he, you know, his version of it
07:24Yeah, they're both such special directors
07:27and really particular and you can totally see the crossover
07:30but yet they, you know, they make things
07:32and they create worlds in their own unique ways
07:34I mean, you know, it would have been equally as special
07:37but just different
07:43Thor Ragnarok
07:44I don't play Thor, I wasn't asked to play Thor
07:47Well, you know, Natalie Portman played Thor
07:49Well, yes, I know, they were big muscles
07:52That's a lot of work
07:54A lot of work
07:55That wasn't CGI
07:56He must be Hela
07:59and Thor, son of Odin
08:01Really?
08:02You don't look like him
08:04Perhaps we can come to an arrangement
08:06You sound like him
08:10Neil
08:11Beg your pardon?
08:15Well, I'd seen Taika's films and loved them
08:18I'd heard that it was happening
08:20but I didn't think anything of it
08:22and then I just got a call saying that Taika wanted to meet him
08:25and I said, yeah, of course
08:27and I didn't know what he
08:28I just thought he wanted to say hello
08:30and then he asked would I be in it
08:32You know, Marvel aren't necessarily used to having a whole script
08:36so there wasn't anything, you know, often they will board the essential battles
08:41and they'll start working backwards
08:43like they make their stories, construct their stories
08:46You know, it's a whole big, massive jigsaw puzzle
08:50I don't know
08:51What I didn't realise then was the first time a female villain had been realised on screen
08:56so that was really exciting
08:58Who are you? What have you done before?
09:05I'm Hela
09:06But I knew Taika was going to put his own particular spin on it
09:11and that Chris was so up for anything
09:14incredibly generous and funny
09:16and ready to kind of move this in another direction
09:19so it felt like there was a really playful, exciting energy
09:23fresh winds were moving through
09:25It was great, it was really great
09:27and I mean I learnt so much
09:29I mean literally Jester
09:32which I was still doing on Borderlands
09:34not to go pew pew
09:35when you shoot the guns
09:36because you have to throw a lot of stuff
09:38out of your whatever bits are going to be CGI'd onto your hand
09:42you know, hammer throwing lessons from Chris
09:44about how it could actually make it like it's a mime
09:47you had to have energy through your arm
09:49I mean I did, I learnt a lot of soft skills
09:52You want Asgard? It's yours
09:55Whatever game you're playing, it won't work
09:58You can't defeat me
10:01No, I know
10:03But he can't
10:06It's a really huge action scene
10:09that was all shot outdoors
10:11and Zoe Bell had come out of retirement
10:14to be Hela's stunt double
10:16Oh my god, I learnt so much from Zoe
10:18She's so deeply cool
10:19So to work with Zoe and to do my bits
10:21and to watch her do this incredible stuff
10:23was just like, oh, my jaw hit the floor
10:26She's amazing
10:28Tar
10:33Tar
10:35I'm probably the wrong person to ask
10:38since I don't read reviews
10:40Never, really?
10:41No, but it is odd
10:43I think that anyone ever felt compelled
10:46to substitute maestro with maestra
10:49I mean we don't call women astronauts, astronettes
10:52It's definitely a tragedy
10:56Oftentimes in tragedy we forget, you know
10:59that we think about the forces that cause the downfall
11:02or the tragic unfolding of events as being external to the central characters
11:08Yeah
11:09Who were asked to invest in
11:10But to watch something where the tragedy occurs from an implosion as much as an explosion
11:16It was a really interesting thing to play
11:20Which is hard, I found it a very hard film to talk about
11:23It connected with me so deeply that I didn't want to become too conscious of it
11:28I didn't want to tell an audience what to make of it
11:30Because I felt there were so many things brought to bear
11:34That we didn't really get a space to talk about
11:36So for me the film existed on a metaphorical layer
11:40And as much as it existed literally
11:43I think people got really obsessed with the literal kind of circumstances
11:47Which are quite, not quite, they are elusive and mysterious
11:51So it became a little bit of a rush-out test for how people read the film or read the situation
11:57And what they thought was said or what they just interpreted
12:01Based on their experiences with so many other stories that are like happening
12:05Yeah, it's interesting
12:07If we get one or two whiffs of a certain story
12:10We often lean into that side of the narrative
12:13Rather than allowing the story to unfold
12:15And I think that happens a lot with all of us conversationally
12:18Is that we think we understand what someone's saying
12:21And we start to formulate judgements and perceptions of what is going to be said
12:26Rather than allowing that person's narrative to genuinely unfold
12:30Unfettered by our own sense of judgement
12:43Great physical performance from you as the conductor
12:46As the conductor, yes
12:48Yeah, it was terrifying
12:50It was terrifying
12:51I was actually shooting Borderlands in Hungary
12:54Like a film made from a video game
12:56Preparing for this
12:58And obviously lockdown was still alive and kicking
13:01And so none of the opera houses were open
13:04I couldn't have piano lessons in person
13:06I was able to finally, I found a great piano teacher in Budapest
13:09Emma Shea Virak
13:11And so she could finally teach me face to face
13:14And she took me into the concert halls
13:17But all of the music had to be chosen and learnt
13:22And so I was having Zoom, a lot of Zoom calls about that stuff
13:25But it was so great
13:27It was a little bit like when I was preparing to play Bob Dylan
13:29But I was playing Elizabeth I
13:31Lydia Tarr and Borderlands were never going to intersect
13:35Although if you think about the last image of where she ends up at a, you know, a video game conference
13:41There's an irony there
13:43Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was Monster Hunters, yeah
13:45Sisters and brothers of the Fifth Fleet, it's time
13:49I remember being on set with Jamie Lee Curtis
13:52And she was, Jamie Lee, like she needs a surname
13:55You know, she was asking me what I was doing
13:57Because I was sort of moving in a strange way
14:00And I had the score for Marla's Fifth out
14:04And I was trying to put my annotations in about, you know, because I was having lessons
14:09And she just laughed, you know
14:11Just of the absurdity of preparing that role while being on the set of Borderlands
14:16Blue Jasmine?
14:22You know, I can't be alone, Ginger
14:25I really get some bad thoughts when I'm alone
14:27Well, you know, all I can say is you look great
14:30Oh, now who's lying?
14:33You do
14:34You know, I was up all last night
14:36I was so anxious about moving here
14:38Yeah?
14:39I wasn't sure how angry you still were
14:42Yeah, I played Jasmine in Blue Jasmine
14:46And she is someone who has married out of her hood
14:54Where her sister still lives
14:57And has kind of, well, totally reinvented herself
15:00Like streets away from where she grew up
15:03She gets divorced and she's got no money
15:05And she has to go back to her sister
15:07So it's a little bit like
15:09If you think about street car named Desire
15:12To Tennessee Williams
15:13Kind of through a sort of an Upper East Side
15:16Woody Allen lens
15:17Yeah
15:18And that's kind of where you are
15:19You from out here?
15:21New York
15:22Park Avenue
15:23You know, when my husband passed away
15:26I mean, naturally I was very upset
15:28So I decided to come out here
15:30And start a new life for myself
15:32What did he do?
15:35He was a surgeon
15:40Famously, most of the film takes place in San Francisco
15:42And I think it's one of the great San Francisco movies
15:44It is
15:45I thought initially that we were shooting in San Francisco
15:47Because of the street cars
15:49But there was a scene in a street car
15:51That then he cut out
15:52So I don't think he wanted comparisons made to it
15:54But certainly from my perspective
15:56Because there's no time to shoot anything
15:59Often really long takes or just one take
16:03My husband and I ran
16:05Sort of like the de facto national theatre in Australia
16:08And in our first season
16:10I think we programmed a production of Streetcar
16:12Which Liv Ullmann directed
16:14And so I had played and we toured a lot
16:17And so I'd lived with the circumstances of that play
16:20For a really long time
16:21I'm very slow
16:22And so I felt that I could bring a lot of that
16:25Just subterranean understanding of the circumstances
16:29Of those sets of relationships into that film
16:31Which was really helpful because we were moving so quickly
16:33The end scene we shot
16:36And then we had to redo it again
16:39Which I thought oh god
16:40It was such a kind of a state to be in
16:43It's fraught with peril
16:46He gossiped
16:48He talk
16:50I saw Danny
16:53I think he wanted to rewrite it
16:55But then you think oh well
16:56I do that every night in the theatre
16:58So I can go back and do it again
16:59And it's actually
17:00It's happened a few times
17:01Where you've had to go back and reshoot something
17:04And often if you felt like you as a group of people
17:06Had got somewhere approximating something that was interesting
17:12It can be a bit disappointing
17:13But it's always fascinating doing it a second time
17:15Yeah
17:16You know having another go at it
17:18On a weekend in Plum Beach means I can wear
17:21What can I wear
17:23I can wear the Dior dress that I bought in Paris
17:28Yes
17:29My black dress
17:31Well Hal always used to surprise me with jewellery
17:35It's traffic in pieces
17:36If you listen to people
17:37You know like me being Australian
17:39I will become
17:40My accent will become stronger
17:42When I'm in certain environments
17:44While I slip into where I am
17:46Much to the embarrassment of my children
17:48You listen to a lot of people who have
17:50Transed like I've lived in England for a long time
17:53And I've got friends who've lived in England for less time
17:56But they sound more British than I do
17:58Because this has been where they
18:00Where they've taken off or deeply connected with
18:02And something's you know
18:04Transformative has happened in that particular place
18:07So that they're
18:08It really does shift them
18:09Into an
18:10And then some people never lose their accent
18:12That's right
18:13No matter where they move
18:14But I think Jasmine is one of those people
18:16Who's a real survivor
18:17Yeah
18:18And so it was important fitting in
18:20And eradicating her past
18:23It was that you know an act of survival
18:25You say Australians are the best at doing accents
18:27You think?
18:28Being colonized by the British I guess you know
18:30And also culturally colonized by the Americans
18:33And there's not a lot of call for Australian characters internationally
18:37You know unless you're working at home
18:38I'd love to see you in the next Mad Max picture
18:40There we go speak to George
18:42And some horror films too
18:43I think we've got to get you in there
18:44I know
18:45Gotta get me into a few
18:51I'm not there
18:53I think it's the process itself that's a fault
18:55Who cares what I think?
18:57I'm not the president
18:59I'm not some shepherd
19:01I'm just a storyteller man
19:02That's all I am
19:03Todd Haynes you know you may have seen his work
19:05Carol or more recently
19:07The May December which is extraordinary
19:09Made a film about Bob Dylan where he divided Dylan's persona into
19:13I think it was seven different personas, eras, personalities and actors
19:18And I play one of them
19:19Heath Ledger was playing one
19:21And Christian and Michelle Williams was also in my particular section
19:26We weren't all there at the same time
19:28But I was wildly excited by, you know, Richard Gere on horseback
19:33And this whole western take on it
19:36I played the version of Bob Dylan when he went electric on the 68 tour
19:40Just like I am
19:42But everybody wants you
19:44Maybe the most fun version
19:45Oh god it was so much fun
19:46I love Highway 61
19:48And I was preparing for it when I was playing Queen Elizabeth
19:51And I was watching all the outtakes for the Penny Baker documentary
19:56And the Penny Baker documentary on a loop
19:58But to see the, you know, all of the press conferences he did in Stockholm
20:03And in Paris and here in London
20:06And his interface with the media
20:08It was crazy
20:11They just did not know
20:13You'd see these people literally not knowing what to make
20:16They, was that an answer?
20:18Is he playing with us?
20:19Yeah
20:20It was so formal, the interaction with the press
20:23And the expectations were so absolute
20:26That artists had to make sense
20:28That they had to justify their work
20:30That they had to tell an audience what to think
20:32He was just not going to, to do that
20:35Some have questioned, given your latest recordings
20:37Whether or not you still care about people as you once did
20:41Yeah, but, uh
20:44You know, we all have our own definitions of all those words
20:48Care and, uh, people
20:52Well, I think we all know the definition of people
20:55Yeah
20:57Do we?
20:58Are you looking forward to the Timothee Chalamet biopic?
21:00Yeah, be curious
21:01I mean, there's so much to say
21:03To, to hang off that, that, that life
21:06It doesn't all necessarily have to be true
21:08Movies aren't necessarily, um, the, the facts of the thing
21:13But they're often the feeling of the thing
21:15Yeah
21:16You know
21:21Carol
21:23What was your favourite doll when you were four?
21:26Me?
21:28I never, not many to be honest
21:32I'm sorry, you're not allowed to smoke on the sales floor
21:36Oh, the ball
21:40Forgive me, shopping makes me nervous
21:42Who is Carol?
21:43Well, I, it's, she's a, um, a creation in the mind of Patricia Highsmith
21:48Phyllis Nagy did the screenplay, which was just superb
21:52Um, and finally Todd came on board to direct it
21:56And I think it's hard to remember
21:59Because so much has changed and still needs to change
22:01About representation on screen
22:03And the type of same-sex relationships that could, were being explored
22:08They weren't being made
22:09I mean, it was not that far apart, I think
22:12From the, the lack of kind of non-suicidal tragic endings
22:17That came from same-sex stories
22:19It was a pretty arid landscape in the mainstream
22:21Yeah
22:22And so, I was so excited and moved
22:25That, that the film has resonated with
22:27And continues to resonate with people, you know
22:30Because I think that Todd's impact
22:32On the way those types of stories get told
22:35Is so sensitive and powerful and timeless
22:39A photographer
22:41I think so, if I have any talent for it
22:45Isn't that something other people let you know you have?
22:47You have
22:50And all you can do is keep working
22:54Here's what feels right
22:56Throw away the rest
22:58I suppose so
22:59Will you show me your work?
23:08It was really, really important to the look of the film
23:10To shoot on 16mm
23:12It dictated how long our takes could be
23:15But I knew it was super important to the look of the film
23:18In order to try and make
23:19When it ultimately got transferred to digital
23:21To give it a kind of a softness and a depth
23:24And a richness of colour
23:25Which Ed Larkman, who I've worked with several times now
23:27Which he's such a genius cinematographer
23:29It just meant that you had to be really all focused
23:33Because you couldn't let the thing run long
23:36The times I've worked with Todd
23:37I've always felt that the sets are really intimate
23:39He really creates that environment
23:41Where obviously with an incredible eye
23:45An immense skill set
23:48And such a kind of a porous but sure perspective
23:54On the stories that he's telling
23:56But yet he creates this feeling like
23:58We're just making a student film
24:00So there's a kind of
24:01Feels like a liberating risk-taking quality
24:05That he creates on his sets
24:07Which is really quite remarkable
24:14Borderlands
24:16Hunter
24:18You've come in search of the secret
24:20Lost Vault of Pandora
24:24I play Lilith in Borderlands
24:26Which has been transposed
24:27From that amazing video game
24:30And I get dropped back into my home planet
24:32Kicking and Screaming
24:33Which is in Pandora
24:34To try and find a vault
24:35Which I don't even think exists
24:37Having gone through
24:38Kind of the Lord of the Rings
24:39Which was sort of at the beginning
24:41Of all of that technology
24:42Really coming to the fore
24:44And then to be playing Hela
24:47In the Marvel
24:48In Thor
24:49Where there was a lot of green screen
24:51Yeah
24:52Of mocap suits
24:53I had sort of thought
24:54Borderlands
24:55Oh it's from a video game
24:56Of course it's going to be in an ILM stage
24:57And I'm going to have dots all over my face
24:59Or a camera in front of my
25:00It's all going to be done in post
25:01And I'm going to be scanned
25:02And I'm going to go home
25:03When Eli came on board to direct it
25:06Which is how I heard about it
25:07He said no I really
25:09He loved Hodorowsky
25:10Those Sergio Leone's
25:12The westerns where you can feel the grit
25:14You know how hot it is
25:15And people are sweating
25:17And he wanted it to be
25:19Kind of a bit more sweaty
25:21And so that stuff was
25:22You know that's where I got my idea
25:24Of having fingerless gloves
25:25So I
25:26When I heard those references
25:29I knew it was going to be shot
25:31On the ground in Budapest
25:32And I was actually going to be on stage
25:34With real people
25:35Because of course this
25:36This was during the pandemic
25:37That we shot it
25:38I was so excited
25:39By all of those elements
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1:00:34
1:10:34
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1:16:26
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1:57:05
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1:39:34
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4:19
1:53:03
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3:28
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