00:00Now to go deeper on the matter list, welcome Silvina Maria Romano, member of the Latin American
00:04Strategic Center for Geopolitics and researcher at the National Scientific and Technical Research
00:09Council.
00:10Welcome Silvina to From the South.
00:12Hi, how are you?
00:15We are doing great.
00:16Thank you very much for accepting our time with us.
00:19Silvina, the first question would be, the former president and her supporters have described
00:24this as a political motivated in a clear show of lawfare.
00:28What elements of the judicial processes against Cristina de Kisner most clearly fit this definition
00:33of lawfare?
00:34Well, the first one is that the judicial power is ruled by people that, from a long time
00:44ago to today, are manufacturing several causes of judicial processes against Cristina Fernández
00:53the Kisner.
00:54It's not the, I mean, I'm talking about 12 causes during the last 20 years.
01:01And between 2016 and 2020, the judicial power has been reformed so they can advance on politics.
01:17Not only against Cristina Fernández, but, for example, the Whistler Brower program that they
01:25arranged during the Macri government, 26, 2020, is very similar to the program that was arranged
01:36in Brazil to take out Lula from the possibility of being elected in 2018.
01:46Also, the judges were familiar to the former president Macri, and I'm talking about that
01:54moment because it's a long process, this lawfare.
01:57So, we have a lot of conversations between contaminated judicial power.
02:02People are not, we don't believe as citizens of this power.
02:09The Supreme Court in Argentina is conformed by five, only five people, five persons.
02:17And today we have only three.
02:19Three people, three persons are defining the political situation in Argentina.
02:26Because Cristina Fernández is a very strong leader.
02:30And another thing is about the natural judge.
02:35You know, every, every cause manufacturer against Cristina Fernández has been treated in
02:42the same, in the same tribunal that is Comodoro Pi.
02:45It's very, very similar to the process in La Bachata in Brazil where the judge Sergio Moro,
02:55it was the one that took all the causes along the country that was apparently vinculated to
03:03the Partido de los Trabajadores and Lula da Silva.
03:07We are talking about a plan, a strategic, a strategy, sorry, that is implemented not only
03:17to take out from politics, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, but also Lula da Silva in 2018 and Correa in Ecuador and Jorge Glass in Ecuador.
03:30And we can, and so on and so on and so on and it's very, very complex the way in that judicial power is acting with the ammunition or the joint, in a joint venture, we can say that in a joint venture with the media that is really striking.
03:53striking because they are capturing our democracy, they are exposing people from politics that we
04:04as a citizens want to vote and we cannot vote them because they are prescribed from politics
04:11for eternity.
04:12like Correa in Ecuador and Cristina Fernández in Argentina.
04:17After all this we have seen something in Argentina that we had not in a while and it is the unity among the left and we heard yesterday Cristina calling for that unity as well.
04:26How significant is this found unity in what comes next for the former president and likely impact in the future of the Argentine politics taking into account the upcoming legislative elections?
04:37It's crucial because we saw this process in Brazil a long time ago and not that long time ago but it seems like that and when Lula went to prison then the one that was elected because Lula wasn't in the list and people couldn't elect him was Bolsonaro.
05:02Bolsonaro is a far right leader vinculated to the armed forces in Brazil and it was terrible for Brazilian people and not only in the process of the COVID sickness but everything.
05:19So then you know the Partido Trabajadores is now is now as the official party.
05:27But then in Argentina this unity is crucial for next elections in October, you know parliamentary elections are crucial.
05:38And it's a way of saying, well, this is, Millet's government is telling us, we're going to discipline the militants, we don't want a social justice via in Argentina, that is over.
05:58And the main leader that represents social justice and the intervention of the state in the economy, it's out. You won't have the possibility to vote it. And people are angry.
06:11And I hope that this union or unity that we see nowadays keep going because we really need it to make it clear that democracy is about options.
06:26Now, what we are living in Latin America is that the judicial power is setting the political agenda and they are stripping, exposing from policy, from politics, sorry, people and sectors that we want to vote,
06:46but we will, we won't be able to because they are inhabited or proscripted or exposed by the judicial power.
06:57In your perspective, Silvina, what are the long-term consequences for Argentina's democracy, judicial independence and political culture when lawfare becomes a normalized political tool?
07:08In the short term, it is like people will react, you know, but then we are aware that our democracy is being cut, our democracy is broken, is not representative anymore.
07:28And in the long term, the media and the judicial power wants people to be out of politics.
07:40They don't want to have people in the streets. They don't want to have people saying and arguing about politics.
07:48They want people to stay at home, watch TV, consume media and nothing else.
07:54And, you know, in Argentina, people are very mobilized.
08:00We are always just like demanding what is, what we need, what we deserve as a democracy that, in a democracy that costs a lot, a lot, 30,000 people killed in the military, civil military government in the 70s.
08:21So, we are conscious about this new kind of war against people.
08:29It's not only the judicial power. It's about a government that is killing people with economic policies that are devastating the country.
08:42So, it's very, very important what this decision of the court can make in our society that, I hope, it has a long-term effect on our movements, social movements and political movements.
09:04Thank you very much for your time here and from the South, Sylvina, for your inputs that have provided broader perspective of what is happening right now in Argentina.
09:14Thank you all.
09:15No, it was our pleasure.
09:16No, it was our pleasure.
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09:18No, it was our pleasure.
09:18No, it was our pleasure.
09:18No, it was our pleasure.
09:18No, it was our pleasure.
09:18No, it was our pleasure.
09:19No, it was our pleasure.
09:19No, it was our pleasure.
09:20No, it was our pleasure.
09:21No, it was our pleasure.
09:22No, it was our pleasure.
09:23No, it was our pleasure.
09:24No, it was our pleasure.
09:25No, it was our pleasure.
09:26No, it was our pleasure.
09:27No, it was our pleasure.
09:28No, it was our pleasure.
09:29No, it was our pleasure.
09:30No, it was our pleasure.
09:31No, it was our pleasure.
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