The big talking point of this episode of News Today is Bengaluru stampede that resulted in 11 fatalities during the RCB victory celebration on Wednesday.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today. This is your prime time destination.
00:05News, newsmakers, talking points on India's number one prime time show.
00:10Let's tell you our big talking point tonight, the Bengaluru stampede.
00:14Where does the buck stop? Who's going to be held accountable after that horrific tragedy in Bengaluru?
00:22Also, India's global outreach. Are these all-party delegations hit or miss?
00:27Asaduddin Ovesi, a member of one of those delegations, will be joining me tonight for our talking point.
00:33But first, as always, it's time for the nine headlines at nine.
00:39CID takes over the Bengaluru stampede probe.
00:43Karnataka High Court also demands explanations.
00:47India today accesses Karnataka government's status report to the High Court.
00:52Report reveals massive crowd control lapses.
00:551,300 cops were deployed to handle more than 2.5 lakh fans.
01:04Eleven die in the stampede, but Neta's son gets VIP rose proceeds.
01:10Karnataka ministers' families enjoyed VIP entry at the RCB event even as chaos unfolded outside.
01:17Team India coach Gautam Gambhir slams roadshows after Bengaluru's stampede says,
01:25I've always believed roadshows shouldn't happen.
01:28Says, people's lives matter the most.
01:30BJP J.D. has gunned for Siddharam Maia government over the stampede deaths.
01:38BJP asks, will Siddharam Maia face arrests like Alu Arjun in Pushpa stampede case?
01:43Congress hits back, says, did BJP act on the Delhi railway stampede and Kumbh Mela?
01:51Congress renews the Narendra surrender dick, taunts Prime Minister Modi with a MAGA hat meme over alleged U.S. pressure in India park ceasefire.
02:01Kremlin also claims that Trump told them he brokered the ceasefire.
02:08India's Operation Sindhu delegation led by Shashi Tharoor meets U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance.
02:15Comprehensive discussions covering a wide array of critical issues from counter-terrorism efforts to enhancing technological cooperation.
02:23This even as Pakistan becomes the vice chairman of a U.N. body on counter-terror.
02:31India's major break-in-India defense boost, Rafale jet fuselage to be manufactured locally for the first time.
02:38Production to begin outside France at a new Hyderabad facility by 2028.
02:45U.S. President Donald Trump speaks with Chinese President Xi'a amidst tall talks between U.S. and China over tariffs.
02:52Trump says U.S.-China to have trade talks soon. Location and time to be decided.
02:56Vladimir Putin rules out new peace talks with Ukraine, calls Kiev terrorists as Russia hardens war stand after latest attacks.
03:06But our top story today, a day after the deadly stampede in Bengaluru, the city and the country is still in a state of shock.
03:20Eleven people died in the incident. The eldest was age 32, youngest just 13.
03:25The average age of those who've died was 23.
03:28Among the deceased were young students and job seekers.
03:32A day after, it's the human face of the tragedy that I want to begin tonight's show with.
03:38Take a look.
03:42Divyanshi was about to go to school.
03:44The bag was packed, lunch ready.
03:48But then the 13-year-old decided she could not let go of the chance to catch a glimpse of her idol, Virat Kohli.
03:55Divyanshi, her mother and brother, headed out to Chinnaswami Stadium on Wednesday.
04:00We did not have any plans to go inside.
04:03We were watching, comfortably sitting on the footpath.
04:07Somehow I escaped from there.
04:10I rescued one person.
04:12So I thought she was inside.
04:13But then later I saw her.
04:16Now all that remains are memories of her.
04:21She was an angel to me.
04:22She was master of emotions.
04:25Swimming champion, Agir Lawlu.
04:27I was 20 when I delivered her.
04:29That's what I'm telling you.
04:30I was 20.
04:31We grew up together.
04:34More than our daughter, she's like my friend.
04:37Her mother also told us that she was a very bright girl.
04:39She was excellent in academics.
04:41She wanted to become a doctor or a pilot.
04:44That was her aim.
04:45She was very focused in that.
04:47Very clear that it was either of these two professions that she would pick and choose once she grows up to become a big girl.
04:53She was a cricket crazy girl.
04:55You name a player in cricket and she used to know tidbits about them, information about them.
05:01The victims of the stampede were all youngsters full of life.
05:06Among them, 16-year-old Shiva Linga Swami, who had just cleared his class 10 exams.
05:14Poorna Chandra, a 26-year-old civil engineer, who travelled from Mysuru to celebrate, never to return.
05:2319-year-old Chinmay Shetty, an engineering student and dancer, who wasn't even a cricket fan, but had gone along with friends.
05:31Pradjual, who left home saying he had a job interview, his family only discovered the truth later.
05:39Another victim, Manoj's father, lamented over how they had lost everything with their son's death.
05:46A bright boy whose education he was funding in a premium institution.
05:50A bright boy who left home saying he had lost everything with his son's death.
06:2024-year-old Sahana from Kolar also lost her life.
06:33Her family says not only was there anyone to help, but the government could not even provide a freezer box for her body until they protested at the hospital.
06:42As families mourn their children, all they are left with is silence from those in power.
07:09Bureau Report, India Today.
07:39Now the story of the Stampede in Bengaluru has become all about what is probably this country's favourite game at such times, passing the buck.
07:48Who will be held responsible? I'll raise that question.
07:51But first take a look at how those in power are simply passing the buck.
07:56A day after the Stampede in Bengaluru that left 11 people dead, more facts have emerged about the circumstances that turned the celebration of RCB's IPL victory into a tragedy.
08:11Sources tell India Today the police were against holding the celebrations on a weekday.
08:25They wanted it on Sunday when traffic would be less, offices would be shut.
08:31The police officials also pointed out that they had already spent the night controlling the crowds on the streets, celebrating RCB's victory.
08:44At 7.01am on Wednesday came the first official announcement by RCB on X about a victory parade.
09:02At 11.56am, the traffic police announced that there would be no victory parade.
09:08Again at 3.14pm, RCB's post mentioned a victory parade at 5pm to be followed by celebrations at the Chinnaswamy Stadium.
09:27The RCB, the administration, the police and everyone linked to the celebration underestimated the crowds that would come.
09:38The stadium had a capacity of 35,000. Over 2 lakh turned up.
09:51On a match day, a fixed number of people come to the stadium.
09:56This time, there were no tickets.
10:00And when the event was first come, first served, thousands gathered.
10:04Initially, RCB said that you should download the passes online.
10:12And thereafter, there were huge crowd and they could even, couldn't even check the passes.
10:17And everybody was allowed on first come, first served basis.
10:22They had opened the full gate.
10:24And later on, when they realized they couldn't control the crowd which was rushing inside,
10:30which is trying to gate crash, jump from this kind of barricades and trying to enter this gate,
10:35they immediately closed the gate and they opened it partially.
10:41So when they opened it partially, there were more crowd because it was first come, first served basis.
10:47And most of them jumped on it and few of them fell below this barricade and many of them walked on them.
10:55And everybody got injured.
10:57And in front of my eyes, there were three to four people who had been carried to medical commanding center inside Chinnaswamy Stadium.
11:04The police on Thursday told the Karnataka High Court they had deployed 1,380 personnel
11:16and additionally, 325 Karnataka State Reserve Police personnel.
11:22A total of 1,705 security personnel to control more than two lakh fans.
11:29Do the math, the police have filed NFIR against RCB, DNA Entertainment Private Limited and KSCA Administrative Committee.
11:44With so many glaring lapses, everyone is running for cover.
11:50It is Cricket State, Cricket Association which arranged the program.
11:55See, earlier also, the same police people were doing the security job.
12:01During the matches.
12:03This time also, they were doing the security job.
12:06But,cription etc.
12:06I'm worried about...
12:08Papa?
12:08Hey, the casa is crazy, and the mujer had argued the same thing.
12:14He was Studios.
12:16I ate and discovered the last night.
12:16But I needed my doctor.
12:19I yound is hanging.
12:20He was talking to me.
12:21Mommy brother, make meüg manage to eliminate this family.
12:24Police commissioner on...
12:27I gave you to close us with your phone.
12:31He invited these couple deu,
12:32respectful police chamber 5-0.
12:34A tragedy that could have been easily avoided.
12:41That is the sad truth of the stampede.
12:47Vitsa Gairaj, Bureau Report, India Today.
12:55An entirely avoidable tragedy.
12:58Where does the buck stop then?
13:01Will heads roll for mismanagement?
13:03What are the lessons to be learned and will they be learned?
13:07Where does the buck stop?
13:08That's going to be my key focus.
13:10I'm joined by people who are proud citizens of Bengaluru.
13:15A city which is grieving today.
13:17Vinay Srinivasa is an advocate there.
13:19Tatyanyi Chamaraj is Executive Trustee Civic Bangalore.
13:24Bhaskar Rao, former Police Commissioner Bangalore.
13:26He's also been part of the Bharatiya Janata Party.
13:29Harish Bijur is a brand guru.
13:30And Aishwarya Mahadev joins me, National Spokesperson, Congress.
13:34And Sayyid Zafar Islam, National Spokesperson, Political and Economic Affairs, BJP.
13:38I'm going to ask each and every one of you that simple question.
13:42Where does the buck stop?
13:44Aishwarya Mahadev, you first.
13:46You're the party in power.
13:47Whenever a terrible incident like this takes place in a BJP rule state, you want heads to roll.
13:54Does the buck stop with Mr. Siddharam Mahia's government and Mr. Shiv Kumar or not?
14:00Good evening Rajdeep.
14:01I think what has happened is an absolute tragedy.
14:04And everybody in Bangalore and Karnataka is grieving for the lives of the people.
14:10And all those injured and our prayers are with them.
14:12Before I answer, where does the buck stop?
14:15It is a very easy question to ask a politician, an analyst, anybody in opposition.
14:19The government can say the Vidhan Saudha program, there were no issues.
14:23There were one and a half lakh people.
14:24We were able to regulate it.
14:25The police may say the previous night after the victory parade,
14:29we worked till 5 a.m.
14:30Ensured that there was absolutely no violence.
14:32People on the management side of the RCB can say the government should have done it.
14:36KSEA could have said our capacity was 30,000, 35,000, 3 lakh people we did not expect.
14:41People can point fingers and say gates were not opened, passes were not issued,
14:45RCB issued tweets in violation and dereliction of what the police had already said.
14:50The police can also say we cancelled the victory parade,
14:53anticipating that there could be these problems like that.
14:56Everybody can point the finger at the other person.
15:00The point is not that.
15:02The point is lives have been lost.
15:05Yes, blame and responsibility need to be apportioned.
15:09But this proselytizing on television, these diatribes, these pointing fingers,
15:14they help nobody and they are an insult to the people who have lost their lives.
15:18Aishwarya Mahadev, I concede that this is not about finger pointing.
15:23I am asking for accountability, ma'am.
15:25And who will be held accountable?
15:27Couple of days later, the story will move on to another story.
15:30I ask you a simple question.
15:32Will heads roll, should heads roll and should they begin with heads of people in government?
15:38Buck stops with you.
15:40I believe that responsibility and apportionment of responsibility and accountability is absolutely important.
15:46My government from this morning, whether it was moving away,
15:49because, you know, I have to clear out this whole misconstrued representation of facts saying that the Vidana Sauda event was happening and people are dying.
15:57No, the felicitation had ended.
15:59The government event that was scheduled had completely taken place and moved on.
16:03And this was at the Chinaswami Stadium.
16:05Whatever it is, the government representatives moved there.
16:08The commissioner also visited, the deputy CM left the event, the chief minister visited the event.
16:13At the end of the day also, whether it was ambulances, whether it was emergency hospital clearances,
16:18whether it was the hospital command center or even within hours, forget compensation,
16:23because no amount of money is going to bring back these lives.
16:25But an investigation, a magisterial investigation and a suor motto in court tells you my government is moving in the right direction.
16:34Okay, you know, you're saying this even as I'm getting breaking news.
16:38Karnataka government has suspended the Bengaluru police commissioner.
16:43A judicial commission has been appointed to probe the Bengaluru stampede.
16:47The chief minister says we'll ensure arrests of those responsible.
16:51So now you've got the Bengaluru police commissioner, who's known to be a very strong, firm officer
16:57and one of the better officers that we know of, the Bengaluru police commissioner.
17:03Is he the one to take the rap?
17:05Remember, the police had made it very clear they did not want this victory parade to take place
17:10or the celebration to take place so soon.
17:12They had recommended it take place on Sunday with adequate planning.
17:16And yet it is the Bengaluru police commissioner today who has been suspended by the Karnataka government.
17:23Is he becoming the fall guy?
17:25The police, remember, recommended, I repeat, recommended, don't have these celebrations so soon.
17:31We need more time.
17:32And yet the celebrations went ahead.
17:34Sayyad Zafar Islam, should the Bengaluru police commissioner be held responsible?
17:39Does the buck stop with the police?
17:43Radir, thank you very much.
17:44First of all, I would like to convey condolences to the families of 11 precious lives and they
17:52have lost their precious lives.
17:55On behalf of my party, I want to convey the condolences to the families.
17:59What is more important for us, all of us to understand, Radir, that buck stops with the
18:04in charge of the administration.
18:06And who is in charge of the entire state administration?
18:10It is the chief minister.
18:11If you say, if you are saying that police has conveyed to the chief minister and the deputy
18:16chief minister that why there is a haste, why there is a tearing hurry to organize this
18:20victory celebration?
18:21Because they wanted to take the political advantage.
18:23And that's why they wanted to be associated with this kind of event.
18:27No harm.
18:27No harm in organizing victory parade.
18:29It has been organized in many other states.
18:32But it was not organized in such a haste as haste has been demonstrated by the insensitive
18:38killer Congress government in Bangalore.
18:42Many are saying, many are saying, Sayyad, many are saying, Sayyad Zafar Islam, the haste
18:47was of the franchise.
18:49RCB, which tweeted already at seven in the morning, again later, RCB was the one which
18:54wanted the event to be held as early as possible because the players had to then leave for different
18:59parts of India and the world.
19:01Are you still going to say the Karnat?
19:02Are you telling me that next time there is a stampede in a BJP ruled state, a chief minister
19:07should resign?
19:08When it happens in Uttar Pradesh, Yogi Adityanath should resign?
19:11Let me tell you two things, which is very important for you to understand, Rajeeb and
19:16the viewers.
19:16First of all, this haste was primarily because even if the police administration or police
19:22commissioner had informed, then why the government had decided to go ahead?
19:27Secondly, even if the private organization like RCB or for that matter, Karnataka Hicket
19:33Association, they wanted to go ahead, it is whose responsibility to the safety and security
19:38of the people of Karnataka?
19:39It is the responsibility of the state administration, not the private organization.
19:46And third, such incident can take place.
19:51But if you had followed the protocol for crowd management, then perhaps you could have at
19:55least have some, something you had been able to say that yes, we had the crowd management.
20:02Right.
20:02But they had not followed any protocol of crowd management.
20:07That's why it is important to stop the buck at Sita Ramayya.
20:11He should be arrested.
20:13He should resign.
20:14He should be arrested.
20:14Okay, Aishwarya Mahadev, Aishwarya Mahadev, I'll give you one more shot because since I spoke
20:18to you last, that news has come in that the Bengaluru police commissioner has been suspended.
20:24So it seems that the Karnataka government has decided the police must take the ramp.
20:29You know, before I answer that, I feel like hypocrisy is quite insulting because an overnight
20:33program not being prepared.
20:35Mr. Islam talks about how we're so responsible, but an event that was planned for six months
20:40was advertised in every single newspaper with a particular CM at the front.
20:44There still saw a stampede and it is rank hypocrisy for you to point out.
20:48But I'm not going to do any more of that.
20:50I'm going to tell you where moving in the right direction to ensure accountability, whether
20:55it is the RCB, whether it is management, it is dereliction of the state law and order
21:00situation or even members in government.
21:03I believe that this probe and also the high court has taken cognizance of this.
21:07I believe we have taken responsibility, which a lot of other governments have not.
21:13We meaning the police commissioner, we meaning the police commissioner, not the political
21:17leadership.
21:18Sir, if law and order falls under the police commissioner who takes responsibility and is
21:24not only the police commissioner, it is the police in charge of the stadium.
21:27It is also the police in charge of the local carbon park police station there.
21:31There is also an FIR against the event management company that was talking about free passes,
21:36then no passes, then app related passes.
21:38Because at Primer FACI, we see that the responsibility of leading and misleading the crowds came in this
21:45direction.
21:46Was the police responsible to do more?
21:48Yes.
21:49Were they unable to?
21:50Yes.
21:51We will look at all the lapses.
21:52If this is a primary sort of action that is being taken until the magisterial inquiry,
21:58we will wait to see and we will apportion blame.
22:01Okay.
22:01I've heard you.
22:02I've heard you, Aishwarya.
22:04Aishwarya Mahadev, I've heard you loud and clear.
22:07I've heard you.
22:07We are having a bit of a problem with the audio, but we'll try and fix that.
22:10I want to go at this moment to Harish Bijoor.
22:12Harish Bijoor, you are a brand guru, someone who's looked at brand Bengaluru.
22:17Very quickly, your first response to who should, where does the buck stop?
22:22Does the buck stop as it appears at the moment the police commissioner has been suspended?
22:33Mr. Bijoor.
22:34Actually, Radheep, this question packs a lot of rhetoric and I think a lot of…
22:41Can you hear me?
22:43Yes, I can.
22:44Yes.
22:46Am I audible?
22:47Yes, you are.
22:50See, Radheep, this question actually packs a lot of rhetoric, much needed rhetoric, much
22:56needed rhetoric.
22:58I'll tell you why.
22:59You asked, where does the buck stop?
23:02My belief is the buck in these kind of cases never stops anyway.
23:07It just goes round and round and round.
23:10You know, the question is as rhetorical as who killed Jessica.
23:15So I think, you know, the buck never stops anyway.
23:18It's passed on and on and I'm sure the same thing is going to happen in this case.
23:22The key point is, this is not a political issue.
23:25This is a human and humane issue.
23:28Yesterday evening, I headed to the airport at 10 p.m.
23:31And even at 10 p.m.
23:33outside the stadium, I saw lots and lots of slippers, which are the telltale signs of
23:41disaster.
23:41And I think, you know, this kind of a thing has hurt many homes, many families.
23:47I think we should respect that.
23:48And I think we need a white paper on this, which really finds out and says what went wrong.
23:53It's event management gone wrong.
23:55Event management gone wrong.
23:57Event management got wrong.
24:00But there are various elements in this event management.
24:03Bhaskar Rao, you've also been a former police officer there in Karnataka.
24:06You've been associated with the BJP.
24:08I want to understand.
24:09Police Commissioner Dayanand is known to be one of the better officers.
24:12He's taking the rap.
24:13He's being suspended.
24:14Do you believe that's the right decision?
24:16Or is he being made the fall guy?
24:18I'm shocked beyond disbelief.
24:21We all know who the culprit is.
24:24We are a Bangaloreans.
24:25Even Harish Bijur knows who the culprit is.
24:28Who is the culprit?
24:28How they work for them?
24:30They have made Dayanand the culprit over there.
24:33Dayanand has had three decades of unblemished career.
24:35And now they are looking for a buck around there.
24:40You can see that the government has gone into a panic mode.
24:44It has registered a criminal case against RCB and KCA and DNA etc.
24:51And now they are placing the police commissioner under suspension.
24:55Now after pressure is going to come from various places, they will withdraw it.
24:59More panic is going to be shown.
25:01The real culprit here is the chief minister himself and his deputy chief minister who made
25:06a mockery carrying an RCB flag sitting in a government car and wearing as if he's an
25:11RCB fan.
25:14Seeing the team in the airport, seeing that in the Vidant Sodha, don't be shocked.
25:20You have got no moral right.
25:23Your hands are full of blood.
25:24Please don't raise your hands also.
25:27If they have placed the commissioner of police under suspension, this is ultimate anarchy
25:31inside the government.
25:32They are just looking for someone to be blamed so that they can wash their hands off.
25:37It is all very clear how they wanted to snatch the credit of victory of RCB to themselves.
25:43RCB is not a Karnataka state team.
25:45RCB is not an India team.
25:47RCB is only a club team.
25:50So, you are saying, you are saying even if RCB, you are saying, no, no, correct me if
25:54I am wrong, Mr. Bhaskar, you are saying, just a minute, you are saying even if RCB had
25:58insisted that they needed to do the celebration the very next day because the players had to
26:02fly out to different parts of the country and the world, Karnataka government should
26:06have said nothing doing.
26:07We will do it at our own time.
26:09Am I right?
26:09Absolutely right.
26:10Absolutely right you are.
26:11They should not have allowed this function to take place over there.
26:15Even in elections also, we always recommend that victory procession be taken out two or
26:20two days later.
26:21The frenzy was too much because 18 years later, a cup is coming into the hands.
26:26So, you are saying the Karnataka government, I am very shocked to say, CM says, I never
26:32expected so many people to come.
26:34He is the chief minister.
26:35He should take the blame.
26:37Buck stops with the chief minister and with nobody else.
26:40Police commissioner and others are lower minions.
26:42And I also want to tell you one more thing, Rajdeep.
26:44The inquiry officer whom they have appointed, he is behaving in a most stupid manner, talking
26:50to media and telling whom he is giving notice.
26:52It is none of his business to inform the media.
26:55He should first complete his inquiry and submit it to the chief minister.
27:00The chief minister will tell who has appointed him about the contents of it.
27:05Why is this man going around and talking to media and telling whom he is going to give
27:09notice, etc.?
27:10Okay, let me, Mr. Bhaskar Rao, I have heard you loud and clear.
27:14You are saying the buck stops with the chief minister.
27:16Vinay Srinivasan advocate.
27:18Who does the buck stop with?
27:20The buck definitely stops with the state government, Rajdeep, because while a big mistake has been
27:25made by RCB, ultimately it is the state government which is responsible.
27:30RCB started this whole thing by tweeting at 7am yesterday about a victory parade and tweeting
27:34about celebration at Chenaswami Stadium.
27:36We don't know who gave them approval to go ahead and tweet all that.
27:39But given they did that, the state government could have still said, we can't go ahead with
27:43it.
27:44The police were through the night, through the night of, you know, day before they were
27:48out on the streets because people were celebrating on the streets.
27:50So the government should have known that these many people are there.
27:53Even though RCB behaved extremely irresponsibly by announcing this victory parade, by announcing
27:58the celebration at Chenaswami Stadium.
27:59It is the government we should have said, no, we will not do that.
28:03Instead, the government thought they will also cash in on the publicity.
28:06And they said that, okay, we will also do an event at Vidana Sada.
28:09I agree with Aishwarya Mahadev that there was no problem at Vidana Sada.
28:13That is correct.
28:14But we should not have allowed the Chenaswami Stadium event to happen.
28:19And RCB and KSCA must definitely take blame.
28:22I was within 150 meters of the site of the stampede yesterday.
28:25I was coming by from the high court to my office and we saw the crowds and we also went
28:30past the stadium later.
28:31The stampede has happened only at three gates of the stadium.
28:34Why did the stampede happen only at three gates of the stadium?
28:38Why did RCB slash KSCA say first come first serve?
28:41Why did RCB slash KSCA say that, you know, how did they announce these tickets?
28:46What did they think about crowd control?
28:48What were they doing?
28:49Right.
28:49All these questions are there.
28:51But the bigger question is, of course, people make, people might do crazy things, right?
28:56RCB is a commercial franchisee after all.
28:58RCB cares about money.
28:59I don't think RCB even cares about their fans.
29:01RCB cares about money.
29:03They wanted to cash in.
29:04The state government should have said, we will not do this today.
29:07And now to hear the police commissioner is suspended.
29:10That if the police commissioner is suspended, so should Mr. D.K.
29:12Shukumar resign.
29:13He's the Bengaluru Development In-Charge Minister.
29:15He went to the HIL airport to receive them.
29:17He came to, he went to the stadium after this news and he held the cup.
29:21Up in his hand.
29:22So why isn't the Bengaluru District In-Charge Minister resigning if the police commissioner is suspended?
29:27I want to know what is it.
29:28I'll get Aishwarya Madhev to respond to what you've said.
29:31You're raising very, very important points.
29:33That's the government wants to ask.
29:34One last important point.
29:37In the FIR register today, the complainant is the police inspector of Carbon Park Police Station who is now suspended.
29:42So what are you going to say in court?
29:44That the FIR, the complainant is the inspector who is now suspended.
29:50So why are we supposed to take the FIR seriously then?
29:52Right?
29:53So why is the inspector the complainant?
29:54And then why have you suspended him?
29:56Can you, can you imagine how it's going to play out in court?
29:58The magistrate will say, then, you know, how do you trust, right?
30:02That what the police inspector has narrated in his complaint.
30:04You're making your point, Vinay.
30:05You're making very important points.
30:07I hope someone out there is listening.
30:09Kathiani Chamaraj, Executive Trustee, Civic Bangalore.
30:12Where are you going?
30:13Where does the buck stop?
30:14What do the citizens believe?
30:15There is now Gautam Gambhir.
30:17And I'm going to just play that in a moment, Kathiani.
30:19Listen to what Gautam Gambhir is saying.
30:21He's virtually also suggesting that these roadshows should never take place.
30:24The Indian cricket coach, listen to what he says.
30:26And I'll get you to respond.
30:29I was never a believer that we need to have roadshows.
30:33Never.
30:33When I was playing, I had the same statement we made,
30:37even after winning 2007, that we should not have roadshows.
30:41I think life for the people are far more important.
30:44And I will continue to say that, that even in future,
30:46I think we can be a little bit aware of not holding these kind of roadshows
30:50and can probably have it in a closed door or something like in a stadium.
30:54And it is very tragic what happened yesterday.
30:57And my heart goes to the family of people who've lost their loved ones.
31:00And I hope in future nothing like this can happen,
31:02because I think we all are responsible and we all are responsible citizens.
31:06And we should take care of all this.
31:08Collective responsibility.
31:10Fans also responsible.
31:11Is it fair to blame the fans at all, Katya?
31:13Any, that they are frenzy in a way?
31:16I think that's right.
31:19You know, cricket is a mercenary thing right now.
31:22And it's a business enterprise.
31:25We need to recognize that.
31:26And that social media is being used to create this frenzy among the public.
31:31And they are mistaking this kind of frenzy for a cricket team as something of a pride in the city or the state or the nation.
31:41You know, it is totally misplaced.
31:42But we can't blame the fans.
31:44We can't blame the fans if they are asked to come to the stadium, first come, first serve.
31:49That, you know, then the government should have had a proper ticketing system.
31:54Yes.
31:55I mean, I think blame goes to all sides in this tragic situation.
32:00And I think it's not correct to blame this person or that person.
32:05All have to accept the blame.
32:07And I think citizens also have to accept the blame.
32:09I cannot imagine that in a local city like Bengaluru, which is the fastest growing city, Silicon City, and so on,
32:17citizens or fans, you know, cannot accept that the stadium is full and we should not try to get into it when it is so full.
32:27And instead, they try to climb the wall and they stamp on people and they stamp on children.
32:34So what kind of civilized behavior have we learned after having been a global city?
32:40I think the citizens also have to introspect about their role.
32:43I mean, everybody else has spoken very well about where accountability should stop.
32:49But I think I need to point out that citizens also have to play a role in following rule of law.
32:56And of course, I must blame the government for all the ad hoc decisions that they are taking without proper planning.
33:04It is not just in this event.
33:07Let me, ma'am, you also raise very important points to take ad hoc decisions.
33:14And that is what is causing the ruin.
33:15And they have to realize that in a city which has 1.4 crore people, you announce a government event for a private cricket team.
33:26And why should the government have got involved in it at all?
33:32Good point, ma'am.
33:33I am just stopping you for a moment because I want to bring in Aishwarya Madev.
33:36All of you are raising very, very valid points.
33:38Aishwarya Madev, you know, private event, private franchise, government virtually takes it over.
33:44Mr. Shiv Kumar is going to receive the cup.
33:46Now, the fact is, even if RCB announced, tweeted about it, government could have said,
33:51no, sorry, we are not in a position to do so, you come on Sunday.
33:55But the government also wanted to take full credit for RCB's victory of a private franchise.
34:00The problem, Aishwarya Madev, at the end of the day, is now you've suspended the police commissioner
34:04as if he is the sole person responsible.
34:07He, his commissionerate and the police did not want the event to take place.
34:13RCB, KSCA and the state government decided collectively to go ahead.
34:19DK Shiv Kumar will have to take responsibility.
34:21Sridhar Ramayya will have to take responsibility.
34:24You know, Rajdeep, first and foremost, just as a public service announcement for the person
34:29talking about my hands being mired in what not, while you call him a former commissioner
34:33of police, his own Twitter handle says he's a BJP panelist, just as a disclaimer.
34:37I've said that.
34:38I've said he's from the BJP, ma'am.
34:39One, right?
34:40The second thing, again, when you talk about accountability, this whole responsibility,
34:45for example, if I had to abdicate responsibility as a government, I would say the government event
34:49had no issues whatsoever.
34:51It would be the KSCA and it would be the RCB.
34:54We're not doing that.
34:55We're saying anybody who has any responsibility in this.
34:59And we're not talking only moral.
35:00We're talking about direct causal relationship to the actions that have occurred will be probed.
35:06Somebody, the lawyer there also spoke about this entire idea of the fact that, you know,
35:11oh, the person who's filed the complaint is now suspended.
35:14Sir, as a lawyer, it is still maintainable because it's an ex officio complaint.
35:18It's not an impersonum complaint, legally speaking.
35:21So don't make it out to be a joke.
35:22When the government is seriously trying to see where the blame, forget blame, where accountability
35:28has to lie every day.
35:30Who succumbed to the pressure of the franchise to go ahead with the event?
35:34I refuse to believe that it was the police commissioner.
35:36I know Mr. Dayanand very well.
35:38He's a tough officer.
35:39He was obviously put under some pressure by someone.
35:42I understood.
35:43Rajdeep, it's a very simple emotion for us.
35:45After 18 years, call it illogical, call it mere emotion, Mumbai, Chennai, every time they
35:52have won, we have faced 18 years of disappointment.
35:55And finally, we saw it may be a completely commercial franchise.
35:58We may be auctioning people off like chattel, if nothing else, right?
36:03But everybody in Bangalore and Karnataka has stood by for this moment.
36:07And for any public representative or a government to say, no, this will happen, that will not
36:12happen or whatnot.
36:13Maybe the RCB management and the KACA took advantage of the fact that we would acquiesce
36:19to a situation to allow people to celebrate.
36:22Maybe it was the...
36:23Madam, my limited point is public safety comes ahead of public spectacle.
36:28I don't care whether there are emotions associated for God's sake.
36:31Did we or did we not ensure they were police?
36:33The KACA is a privately regulated cricketing authority, yes.
36:37Every single match, we provide state security.
36:40Even for this, we deployed 1,700 cops who had been on service till 5 a.m. the next day.
36:45Was RCB the one that tweeted?
36:47Maybe.
36:48Was the KACA management irresponsible?
36:50Maybe.
36:50Maybe it was the police.
36:52Maybe it was the government.
36:53The fact remains that until you can ascertain speculation and basically baying for blood
37:00helps nobody.
37:01If a top cop has been suspended, we're hoping to see there is...
37:05IPS, I can tell you just now, ma'am, in more news coming in, IPS lobby has opposed the
37:10suspension of the Bangalore Police Commissioner.
37:12They see it as a fall guy.
37:14But very quickly, Saiyaj sir, for Islam, a quick answer.
37:17You see, the problem with political parties and particularly your political party is y'all
37:22don't believe in resignations.
37:23No one resigns after the Mahakum.
37:25No one even takes responsibility.
37:27In fact, there's a cover-up.
37:28We don't even know how many people died.
37:31Delhi railway stampede, again, there is...
37:33No one takes responsibility.
37:35You have no moral authority today to question the Congress government.
37:38That's the problem.
37:40No, Rajiv.
37:42Killer Congress government should have had some plan in place.
37:47They didn't plan anything.
37:48When you have this kind of event, some protocol has to be maintained.
37:53They should be in place.
37:54There is some SOPs.
37:56Nothing has been followed.
37:57One month ago, one month ago, there was a stampede in a temple.
38:00There was a stampede in a temple in Goa ruled, in BJP ruled Goa.
38:04Did you call the Chief Minister to resign?
38:07No, no.
38:07Who should be held responsible?
38:09Why?
38:09They want the heist.
38:10People are asking.
38:11Such event can be organized.
38:13We understand people's emotion.
38:14But if you are prioritizing people's emotion over safety of the people, then it is the kind of the administration.
38:21And that is why a stop at Sitaramaya and D.K. Shiv Kumar, they should resign and they should be put behind the bars.
38:31Okay.
38:32Well, if the BJP is saying D.K. Shiv Kumar and Sitaramaya should resign and be put behind the bars, then I don't know how many politicians, given the number of stampede that have taken place in different parts of the country, will suddenly find themselves behind the bars.
38:46That's the problem, because the fact is that this has been a very, very unfortunate event.
38:53And now to put all the responsibility on the police commissioner may not be the right way to go forward.
38:58Clearly, what we need is a proper investigation, transparent, with clear responsibility being fixed for those who took the decision.
39:07Bengaluru deserves better.
39:09That's all that we can say.
39:11I appreciate my guests joining me here on my talking point tonight.
39:14An Operation Sindhoor all-party delegation led by the Congress's Shashi Tharoor has met the U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance.
39:23Tharoor was part of that delegation that met the U.S. President and he has told us that he's held comprehensive talks on terror.
39:32Talks covered counter-terror and tech.
39:35Now, that's the story coming in there.
39:37But the fact is that amidst India's high-stakes diplomatic push, which is reaching its climax from Washington to Warsaw, 59 MPs and diplomats being sent across 32 nations to call out Pakistan's terror links.
39:50But despite India's global efforts, the global response has still remained muted.
39:56To top it now, Pakistan, a country that has harbored and supported terrorists, has just been made or is set to chair the U.N. Security Council's Taliban Sanctions Committee.
40:07It will also serve as vice chair of the council's counter-terrorism committee.
40:11So, what really is being achieved by these all-party delegations?
40:16Are they more optics than reality?
40:18And that too at taxpayers' money?
40:20That's the question I want to pose or I posed a short while ago to Asaduddin Owasi, the AIMIM MP who traveled to several of these countries.
40:30Listen in to Owasi.
41:01What is the question I have had from all your interactions, particularly when it comes to how does the world now see what happened in Pahalgam and then Operation Sindur?
41:10Well, each of these four countries which we have gone to, they have condemned the Pahalgam attack.
41:23And they are very important for us because out of these four, one is now presently a non-permanent member of Security Council.
41:34One country would become in next year.
41:38And all these four countries are part of Middle East, North Africa, FATF.
41:43So, we will be requiring their help.
41:46And all these three Gulf countries are members, all these four countries are members of OIC.
41:53The three Gulf countries are part of GCC.
42:00And so, they had some questions they were asking us.
42:04One was, why don't you speak to Pakistan?
42:07So, we reminded them, we explained to them that after 26-11, which happened in Mumbai, our investigators went all the way to Pakistan, gave them the DNA samples, gave them audio recordings of terrorists sitting in Pakistan directing attacks in Mumbai.
42:26We had shown them that a live terrorist was caught because of bravery of the Mumbai police, nothing happened.
42:36Then we also reminded them that in Pathan court, the ISI, in my opinion, was wrongly allowed by this government to come to Pathan court.
42:44But nothing happened.
42:45Pakistan didn't cooperate.
42:47It was only when Pakistan was put in FATF in 2018 that the trial of 26-11 moved.
42:54But unfortunately, what we, we also reminded them of this classic case of Sajid Mir.
43:00Now, Sajid Mir was the main planner, master planner of 26-11.
43:05Pakistan was saying he's dead.
43:07While they condemned terrorism, did they condemn Pakistan?
43:12Because these are OIC countries, which in the past have raised the Kashmir issue as well.
43:17Did you see them, are they willing to outrightly condemn the Pakistani army state?
43:24Well, you see, some countries were definitely not happy with what Pakistan is indulging in.
43:36Some countries were telling us, why don't you speak to them?
43:39Some, we reminded Saudi Arabia, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, that you have given a loan to them of, what, $2 billion in 22.
43:49And then in 24, I think, so they've extended a $14 billion loan.
43:53We told them that where is the money going?
43:56It is going to their army.
43:57It's not going for the development.
43:58So, yes, in our meetings, they were concerned about this whole thing which happened.
44:05But we had to explain to them that we had, we were compelled to react in the way we reacted.
44:13Had Pahlgam not happened, why would we go and attack only nine proscribed organizations, no head office?
44:20But are these...
44:20We would have retaliated, had Pakistan kept quiet, but we had to retaliate.
44:23But are these countries aware that Pakistan has misused religion to spread terror?
44:30Are they aware of the fact and the manner in which Pahlgam was, the attacks were carried out?
44:37And therefore, these Islamic countries, do they get, are they aware what Pakistan is doing to Islam across the world
44:44by using terror as an instrument to target India?
44:48Well, they are aware, you know, they are definitely aware.
44:54They are definitely aware.
44:56You cannot say they are not aware.
44:57We reminded them...
44:59No, why don't they speak out then against Pakistan, Mr. Owezi?
45:03Well, you should ask them.
45:07I am not a spokesperson of these four countries,
45:10but my job as a member of the delegation was to put forward India's viewpoint to explain to them
45:18if they have any questions, but what policy they will adopt that...
45:24I think, sir, Rajiv Sarjai Sai should fly down to all these four countries and speak to people we have met.
45:29But this was not our job.
45:31Our job was to go and explain to them that India has been a victim of terrorism,
45:36perpetrated, sponsored, and aided by Pakistan.
45:40And many countries accepted that, yes, terrorism has happened.
45:44We reminded the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia when we met our interlocutors
45:47that in May 2003 in Riyadh, where we met all these His Excellencies,
45:54that it was attacked by Al-Qaeda.
45:56Eight years ago, Houthis have launched a missile attack at Aramco.
46:01In Algeria, we know for a fact.
46:03So, you know, all these countries are against Daesh.
46:06They are against Al-Qaeda.
46:08So, we have told them that there is no difference between L.E.T.
46:12or the resistance front and J.E.M. or J.A.M.
46:16They are all...
46:17They all subscribe to a takfiri ideology of killing any person, Muslim or non-Muslim.
46:24So, this viewpoint we had sent, we had told them that these two emails which were sent
46:29by this organization accepting this Pahlaga massacre, were sent from an area which is close
46:37to the Pakistani military contornment.
46:40So, we have shown them that there is a proof.
46:43And we have told these countries that this TRF organization is not...
46:46Which suddenly erupted or came on April 22nd.
46:50India had informed the United Nations Sanction Committee 1262 in December 2024 that there is
46:57a resistance front, which is a new name for L.E.T.
47:00We informed them twice in...
47:02I think so, in 24.
47:03So, all in all, you know, all of us have whatever intellectual capacity we had, whatever information
47:12we had, we had put forward the best case of India and ensured that they remember that
47:21Pakistan wants to destabilize not only South Asia but the whole region over here.
47:26You are saying that you hope that these visits will have a positive impact.
47:30One of the interesting aspects, Mr. Ovesi, is that while all of you have gone and spoken
47:35out in one voice abroad, in India we are seeing the divisions playing out within.
47:40Amit Shah goes to Bengal, accuses Mamata Banerji of opposing Operation Sindhu, which she actually
47:46hasn't, but accuses her of playing vote bank politics.
47:49You've had Rahul Gandhi targeting Prime Minister Modi, claiming he surrendered Narendra Modi.
47:55How do you respond to that?
47:56That while you've gone abroad, defending India within, the BJP is attacking the Congress,
48:02Congress is attacking BJP, BJP and Trinamul in a face-off.
48:07How do you respond to what's happening at home?
48:09That is our democracy at work.
48:15We are not Pakistan.
48:17We are not those countries where they have theocracy or kings.
48:22This is our democracy at its best.
48:25We have the right to criticize each other.
48:27We are criticizing.
48:28But at the same time, you have the TMC member, part of the delegation.
48:34You have all Congress members who are part of the delegation.
48:38You have Supriya Suleyus heading a delegation.
48:41You have Kani Mosey.
48:43But isn't it sending out wrong signals, Mr. Ovesi, with due regard?
48:46The fact is, if you all speak in one voice abroad and you speak in very discordant voices
48:50at home, you're saying it's a triumph of democracy.
48:53But at the end of the day, doesn't it send out mixed signals?
48:58Well, what matters is that when you're abroad, you're representing India.
49:06What is the language that you're using?
49:09The language is different.
49:10You're in India.
49:11So you have to, you're part of a political party.
49:14Of course, that is our democracy working.
49:17That is how, you know, we can say that we are exercising our freedom of expression.
49:23Yes, we might say sometimes we cannot say what we want to say.
49:28We can also say that Rajiv Sardesai cannot say what he wants to say sitting at this place.
49:33But then again, it's still a democracy is there, isn't it?
49:35No, no.
49:36You see, there are those, for example, CPI's D. Raja, while calling for a special session of parliament,
49:42Mr. Ovesi has just said, it is unacceptable that foreign governments will be briefed
49:46while India's own parliament and people remain in the dark.
49:50How do you respond?
49:51Do you believe that even before the foreign delegations were sent out, there should have
49:55been a special session of parliament?
49:57Or do you believe there should be a special session of parliament now?
50:01No, but I don't, you know, the brief that was given to us, the whole nation knows.
50:15I mean, if I went along with group one, headed by my good friend Jay Panda, was it, the information
50:23that we had, was that information not in the public realm in India?
50:27It was there in public realm in India.
50:29Yes, it will have been good if a parliament session would have been called.
50:32But now when today, monsoon parliament session dates have been announced, my party will definitely
50:39demand that a proper discussion should take place on Pahlkam.
50:44The security lapse which happened in Pahlkam, who's accountable for it, that should, there
50:50should be a discussion.
50:51And if the Modi government says it's a sensitive issue, we will not allow a discussion.
50:56I want to remind this government through you, through your channel, is that the parliamentary
51:01rules provide you to have an in-camera discussion, wherein without media reporting any of it, this
51:08was done, I think so, once in 1960s, the same can happen.
51:13But definitely, there are pointed questions will be raised against the government.
51:19And how did the security lapse happen?
51:21Who's accountable for it?
51:23And subsequently, what would be a deterrence policy?
51:26So, I hope, but as far as my party is concerned, we will be definitely demanding that such a discussion
51:32take place in the forthcoming monsoon session, which will be happening today.
51:35So, what you're saying, Mr. Ovesi, is interesting.
51:37You're saying you've gone abroad, you've exposed Pakistan as a perpetrator of terror, brought
51:44out the difference between India as a victim and Pakistan as a perpetrator.
51:48You've used very strong words against Pakistan, but you're saying now that you're back in
51:52India, you will continue to raise some of the inconvenient questions like security lapses
51:58in Pahlkam and other related questions.
52:01Am I correct?
52:02These are not inconvenient.
52:08These are the most important questions which the nation would want to know.
52:13If you say it inconvenient, why should I say it inconvenient?
52:16This is a proper question that has to be asked with our government.
52:22We definitely ask it.
52:24No, the reason I'm asking you, Mr. Ovesi...
52:26But when you're part of a delegation, which is the...
52:28Sure.
52:29You're making a distinction between going on a foreign delegation abroad, all-party delegation
52:34abroad, and your role as a opposition leader in this country.
52:39My point, the reason I ask you this is because leaders like you have often been demonized in
52:44recent times.
52:45You've been among those who have often been termed as anti-national when you speak out
52:49at home.
52:50Now suddenly people are celebrating Mr. Ovesi, congratulating you for the tough stand you've
52:58taken against Pakistan and Pakistan-based terror.
53:02How do you respond?
53:03What would you tell those who once saw you as anti-national and today are saying Ovesi is
53:08the true nationalist?
53:13Again, I would say our democracy is working.
53:16They can say whatever they want.
53:18That doesn't change me.
53:19I am not dying for anyone's praises.
53:23I have never asked for a certificate of patriotism and nationalism for anyone.
53:29I will continue to say what I have to say, but if they have realized, oh, Mr. Ovesi has said
53:36this, what can I tell them?
53:37I have always been like this.
53:39So, we are not, you know, I don't, you know, see, this is democracy.
53:43Today they have praised you.
53:45Tomorrow they'll criticize you.
53:47So, this happens in politics.
53:48You know, the day one, any politician, any leader starts accepting that every 24 hours
53:56I should be praised.
53:58And if anyone who doesn't praises me, then I will go after him.
54:02Then that is not democracy.
54:03That is not democracy.
54:04You are turning, you are weakening democracy, basically.
54:09Okay.
54:10Asaduddin Ovesi for joining me and speaking as firmly as ever, clearly as ever.
54:17Appreciate you joining me and welcome back home.
54:23Thank you, Raj.
54:24And you can watch the entire interview with Mr. Ovesi on our India Today YouTube channel
54:32for the complete interview.
54:35That's it on the show.
54:36We've run out of time completely.
54:38Thanks for watching.
54:39Stay well.
54:40Stay safe.
54:40Good night.
54:41Shubhra Tari.
54:41Shubhra Tari.
54:41Jaihin Namaskar.