- 7 months ago
Wednesday Night Live 4 June 2025
In this episode, I explore themes of parenting, politics, relationships, morality, and personal integrity. I respond to a listener's question about children's literature, particularly Grimm's Fairy Tales, discussing their depth in familial dynamics. I share my reluctance to engage in contemporary political discourse, critiquing the trend of viewing integrity through a cult-like lens.
We delve into modern relationship dynamics, noting how societal pressures can lead men to feel "on strike" regarding commitment. I argue for the importance of philosophy in understanding morality, challenging the idea that science alone can define ethical standards.
Listeners can expect insights into the roots of dysfunctional relationship patterns linked to childhood experiences, highlighting the significance of self-worth and authenticity in connections. This episode encourages a re-evaluation of personal beliefs and moral integrity in today's complex world.
GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK!
https://peacefulparenting.com/
Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!
Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!
You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!
See you soon!
https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2025
In this episode, I explore themes of parenting, politics, relationships, morality, and personal integrity. I respond to a listener's question about children's literature, particularly Grimm's Fairy Tales, discussing their depth in familial dynamics. I share my reluctance to engage in contemporary political discourse, critiquing the trend of viewing integrity through a cult-like lens.
We delve into modern relationship dynamics, noting how societal pressures can lead men to feel "on strike" regarding commitment. I argue for the importance of philosophy in understanding morality, challenging the idea that science alone can define ethical standards.
Listeners can expect insights into the roots of dysfunctional relationship patterns linked to childhood experiences, highlighting the significance of self-worth and authenticity in connections. This episode encourages a re-evaluation of personal beliefs and moral integrity in today's complex world.
GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK!
https://peacefulparenting.com/
Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!
Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!
You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!
See you soon!
https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2025
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00:00All right, good evening, everybody.
00:00:03Hope you're doing well, Stefan Molyneux, from inside your brain, your conscience, as we
00:00:09rummage around, trying to make us all better people, freedomain.com slash donate to help
00:00:13out the show.
00:00:14Thank you, C. Marsh.
00:00:16I appreciate your tip.
00:00:18freedomain.com slash donate is the best way to do it, and all right.
00:00:28Yes, so, hey, Steph, I was wondering if you had any suggestions for books slash stories
00:00:33from my six-year-old daughter.
00:00:34She loves The Emperor Has No Clothes that you suggested in a previous show.
00:00:37Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
00:00:40Well, I would just take some fairy tales, the Grimm's fairy tales, read through them.
00:00:46Don't sanitize them too much.
00:00:48She's six, not four, and just say, well, what could this mean, right?
00:00:52What could this mean?
00:00:53Why would all of the mothers be stepmothers in Grimm's fairy tales?
00:00:59Why would they be stepmothers?
00:01:02And what does that mean, right?
00:01:03So there's two answers, really, to that.
00:01:05Number one is that a lot of kids can't process that their moms are really mean, so they imagine
00:01:10that the good, loving mom was taken out, yoinked out, and replaced with the evil stepmother.
00:01:15That's number one.
00:01:16And number two is that stepmothers are kind of dangerous, right?
00:01:24So non-biologically related adults in a household with children are generally assholes.
00:01:32They're generally predatory for reasons of obvious evolutionary and familial fitness reasons.
00:01:38So it's not good.
00:01:40It's not good.
00:01:40All right.
00:01:40Hey, Steph, Elon Musk and Donald Trump need you to make one more political analysis podcast
00:01:47to help wrestle government spending.
00:01:49Yes, I just did a little two-second video today about everyone's like, Steph, you got
00:01:54to be on politics, man.
00:01:55So politics was great 10 years ago, 15 years ago, even eight years ago.
00:02:03There was hope.
00:02:04There was hope that people would be able to have the tough conversations with those around.
00:02:09It's not about podcasting.
00:02:10It was never about, of course, whether I could change things or other people in an individual
00:02:16sense could change things.
00:02:18It was about, can we encourage people as a whole to have the difficult conversations
00:02:24they need to have in order to save their country, their civilization, their culture?
00:02:30Because it doesn't come down to a podcast.
00:02:33It comes down to each individual person putting their values and beliefs on the line.
00:02:38Now, as it turns out, people didn't really want to do that, because to have integrity,
00:02:45apparently, is to be in a cult, right?
00:02:48To be in a cult.
00:02:49And people misunderstood the against me argument and all the other things that I put forward
00:02:54over the course of my show.
00:02:55So, and basically, if you don't, and not you in particular, but if people don't have integrity
00:03:00with regards to their moral beliefs, the only thing that's left is political escalation,
00:03:05to put it as nicely as humanly possible.
00:03:08That's all that's left.
00:03:09You either have integrity, you're willing to put your relationships on the line for the
00:03:13cause of the non-aggression principle.
00:03:15In other words, don't have people in your life who want you thrown in jail and tortured
00:03:21and raped for disagreeing with them, right?
00:03:23Which is what politics is all about, is that if you don't do what I want, you go to jail,
00:03:28right?
00:03:29So don't have people in your life who want you confined, abused, and possibly raped,
00:03:36incarcerated, because you disagree with them politically, right?
00:03:40No, libertarians, you can disagree with libertarians politically.
00:03:42As long as it's like, well, I think that this DRO or that DRO should handle things that's,
00:03:48you know, voluntary as anarchists.
00:03:51But statists are bloodthirsty.
00:03:54Statists are bloodthirsty, and statists go to the gun.
00:03:57Go to the gun.
00:03:57Got a problem?
00:03:58Go to the gun.
00:03:58Go to the gun.
00:03:59Go to the gun.
00:03:59That's all they do.
00:04:01That's all they do.
00:04:02So I put out the call for integrity, and everyone says, it's a cult.
00:04:07He just wants, he wants you to dissociate from people who just happen to disagree with you.
00:04:12Oh, my God.
00:04:19What can you say?
00:04:21You know, in totalitarian takeovers, it's all the people in glasses who get killed.
00:04:28I talked about that in my documentary on Poland, which you should definitely look at.
00:04:37So I put forward the call that people should have genuine integrity with regards to their
00:04:43political beliefs.
00:04:45And most people did not want to do that.
00:04:47And what that meant to me was, it's mostly all talk, right?
00:04:54It's mostly all talk.
00:04:54And also that they felt it was too late in the game to give up friends and family because
00:04:59they might need them in the post-apocalyptic warlord scenario that could be coming down
00:05:03the pipe, right?
00:05:06Okay.
00:05:06So if people say, well, I don't want to give up friends and family for the sake of my morals
00:05:09because I'm going to need them in the post-apocalyptic zombie apocalypse, then don't complain if I'm
00:05:17off politics because people don't believe in it anyway.
00:05:19So I just wanted to mention that.
00:05:24Also, I wanted to...
00:05:26I thought you said love.
00:05:27I should love.
00:05:29Ex-porn star Nala Ray apparently is speaking at TP USA.
00:05:34Turning Point USA.
00:05:39Is it a big tent?
00:05:41No, it's okay.
00:05:41She's reformed.
00:05:42She only licks her ladle when making pancakes these days.
00:05:46Oh, my God.
00:05:49So porn stars are welcome.
00:05:51Ex-porn stars, I suppose, are welcome.
00:05:56I haven't quite received my invite yet.
00:05:58But perhaps if I become an ex-porn star, I'll be welcome.
00:06:02Oh, show your vajayjay so that orbiting satellites can view it like the Grand Canyon.
00:06:14No problem.
00:06:17Talk about IQ.
00:06:19Well, that's beyond fail.
00:06:23Sorry, I went on a brutal hike today with my daughter.
00:06:26Up and down the Bruce, up and down like the Assyrian Empire.
00:06:29So I'm afraid my lungs have collapsed.
00:06:37Turning Point USA.
00:06:40Ah, dear, dear.
00:06:42That's pretty wild, man.
00:06:44That's pretty wild.
00:06:45And you might want to follow Milo on Glenn Greenwald.
00:06:50He is...
00:06:51Milo is like this sandblasting x-ray of exposing people.
00:06:56He really is something.
00:06:58And it's probably worth...
00:06:59I don't know if everything he posts is true.
00:07:01Seems to be true.
00:07:02I don't know.
00:07:02But it's definitely worth following to see who's welcome.
00:07:06Who's welcome in the small government movement.
00:07:15Oh, it's so liberating, man.
00:07:17Oh, I love them.
00:07:18I love them for all the freedom that they provide to people like me.
00:07:25Ooh.
00:07:28Are you going back to Twitter?
00:07:30No.
00:07:31Doesn't exist anymore.
00:07:33Oh, my gosh.
00:07:36Hi, Steph.
00:07:37There is a lot of talk about women not having children today.
00:07:40And a gloomy forecast for those women when they reach advanced stages of their...
00:07:44Lies to include vulnerability and financial devastation.
00:07:48Oh, you mean lives.
00:07:49Please.
00:07:50Spell check.
00:07:51Don't make me puzzle it out.
00:07:52It's not an escape room, bro.
00:07:54They reach advanced stages of their lives to include vulnerability and financial devastation.
00:07:58But women have children with men.
00:07:59Doesn't this mean that men are also not having children?
00:08:02And what will be the fallout for men as well?
00:08:06Men can survive childlessness a lot better than women.
00:08:09Because men generally build in the world.
00:08:12And so we don't need to build people quite as much.
00:08:15And so this is the most...
00:08:20I'm not saying for you.
00:08:21I'm just, in general, the most absolutely mind-numbingly boring thing is when you say something about women.
00:08:28If you say, well, what about men?
00:08:33You have a tumor on your left kidney.
00:08:36Yeah, well, what about my right kidney?
00:08:37It's like, well, we're kind of talking about your left kidney.
00:08:40What about my right kidney?
00:08:41What's the story with my right kidney?
00:08:42Let's focus on my right kidney.
00:08:43It's like, well...
00:08:44Right?
00:08:45So feminism plus statism is just way too much power.
00:08:49Women have an enormous amount of power.
00:08:50They're the gatekeepers of sex.
00:08:52They're the gatekeepers of marriage.
00:08:53They're the gatekeepers of children.
00:08:54And in sort of the traditional sense, given that sexual desire led to marriage and children, and they get all these resources from men.
00:09:06Men are constitutionally and biologically programmed to throw resources at women like buckets of water on an everlasting fire.
00:09:14And so women have an enormous amount of power just in the determination of who gets to reproduce, who gets to date, who gets to marry.
00:09:22And you throw that in with the state power.
00:09:24The state then bends to the will of the women.
00:09:25The women wish to escape consequences, which means the consequences all land like a ton of bricks on the gonads of the men.
00:09:31And the men go on strike.
00:09:33The Alice Shrugged is men going on strike.
00:09:36And men are going on strike in relationships.
00:09:37And men are going on strike, at least white men, in marriage.
00:09:45I mean, I've said for 20 years, right?
00:09:48The statism leads to collapse.
00:09:50And people have decided I'm wrong.
00:09:58All right.
00:09:58How can I approach a girl and feel I have value and or actually have value?
00:10:05My approaches lately are basically begging for her to like me when I believe I have nothing to offer, at least nothing that she would appreciate.
00:10:11It seems to me that all Gen Z girls care about is Instagram likes.
00:10:14I can be clever and flirty, but I come across as low value, including due to my fundamental beliefs.
00:10:18I believe I cannot compete with the sexual market value of a 20-something girl.
00:10:23Any suggestions?
00:10:26Well, stop being a fraud.
00:10:27Stop approaching people that you don't believe you're worthy of.
00:10:36I mean, you don't see me applying for jobs as a neurosurgeon because I'm not worthy of it.
00:10:39Right?
00:10:40You don't see me saying, well, you know, everybody has to donate $1,000.
00:10:45What, Ross Ulbricht, did he just get 30 plus million dollars in Bitcoin?
00:10:49Freedomain.com slash donate.
00:10:51But, yeah, stop being a fraud.
00:10:53If you feel that the girl is too good for you, don't approach her because that's fraudulent, right?
00:10:59Because you're asking her to think better of you than you do of yourself.
00:11:02Nobody is going to praise you when you are down on yourself except somebody who wants to rip you off, con you, or exploit you.
00:11:13So, if you approach a woman and you're down on yourself, she doesn't know you from Adam.
00:11:19She doesn't know who you are.
00:11:20She doesn't know what your value or your worth is.
00:11:23So, if you believe that you have little to no value and you are approaching a woman who you believe is significantly above you in sexual market value, she's going to reject you.
00:11:36And that's what you prefer.
00:11:39You prefer women to reject you, which is why you approach them like, well, I guess you don't really want to go out on a date with someone like me, huh?
00:11:47Ah, women, they're so cold.
00:11:48They just reject me.
00:11:50Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:50Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:54I've approached probably 100 plus girls this year in very high risk settings.
00:11:58It's probably what I'm most proud of.
00:12:00I couldn't even bring myself to say hi to a girl last year, says someone.
00:12:07That may be a little bit undifferentiated, right?
00:12:09Like, if you don't have a reason to choose a woman, she's just going to be insulted.
00:12:13Hey, you with the boobs and the pulse.
00:12:16But I get together and make a family, right?
00:12:18That a woman likes to feel that you've chosen her.
00:12:21So just talking to everyone, maybe a little bit, maybe a smidge undifferentiated.
00:12:28Oh, my gosh.
00:12:32Yeah.
00:12:33I mean, it's hard to find.
00:12:34Oh, sorry.
00:12:35Okay.
00:12:35So I've got the Jordan Peterson thing queued up because there's some very interesting arguments there.
00:12:42If you have questions, issues, comments, I'm totally happy to hear those.
00:12:47Or I can do the Jordan Peterson stuff.
00:12:50I did it more for exposure therapy.
00:12:52All right.
00:12:54All right.
00:12:56But don't you actually want to get a date at some point rather than just do exposure therapy?
00:13:00I could be wrong, but I think the purpose is to get a date, to get married, whatever, right?
00:13:05So just something to think about.
00:13:11Yeah.
00:13:12I have a tough time explaining why people pursue negative interactions.
00:13:16Oh, you got dates too.
00:13:17Okay.
00:13:18Do you have a girlfriend?
00:13:19I mean, the whole point is to get married and have kids, right?
00:13:22So you get dates, but do you, are you upgrading, right?
00:13:32My son gets mad at me if I bring up a possible girlfriend.
00:13:35LOL.
00:13:36I don't think that's funny.
00:13:38No girlfriend.
00:13:38Yeah.
00:13:38Okay.
00:13:39Well, then you've got to read people better and differentiate people better.
00:13:44So nobody wants to be in a giant collective called females as a whole who I ask out.
00:13:49It's got to be a bit more individual.
00:13:50At least a woman of quality is not going to want you just going down the line.
00:13:53Hey, want to go out?
00:13:53Hey, want to go out?
00:13:54Hey, want to go out?
00:13:57So, yeah, it's a tough thing to explain to people why they, like, let's say you grew up with a really, I don't know, a nagging mother, and then you end up with a nagging girlfriend.
00:14:12You say, well, how do you explain that?
00:14:13Why?
00:14:13I mean, it's negative.
00:14:14I didn't like my mother nagging me.
00:14:15Why do I end up with a nagging girlfriend or wife?
00:14:17Why do I end up with a wife who nags, right?
00:14:19Or you grew up with an emotionally distant father, and you end up with a husband who's emotionally distant.
00:14:23You say, well, why?
00:14:24Why would I do this?
00:14:28I don't like it.
00:14:29I said, yeah, but you prefer it.
00:14:32And the analogy that I would use is let's say you move to some foreign country far away from your native land.
00:14:38And let's say your native land is, I don't know, America, whatever, right?
00:14:42And you move to some Panama or something like that.
00:14:45And then you end up, you're going to gravitate towards an expat community, right?
00:14:49You're going to gravitate towards Americans who speak English.
00:14:54Americans who speak English.
00:14:55And you're going to hang around them because it's a language you're familiar with.
00:14:58And it's the same thing with dysfunction.
00:14:59You move someplace, you end up just hanging out with the people whose language you're familiar with,
00:15:04which is called dysfunction.
00:15:07If you come out of the pickup artist tradition, you feel obligated to approach every okay-looking woman
00:15:12and kick yourself when you don't, even if all the interactions are unpleasant.
00:15:16I don't believe you.
00:15:19I don't, like, I don't believe you.
00:15:22I mean, the pickup artist tradition has got a wide variety.
00:15:26And is the pickup artist tradition, is it designed to get you laid or is it designed to get you a wife?
00:15:30If it's designed to get you laid, then it's just animalistic lust, right?
00:15:34So it's kind of pathetic, right?
00:15:36Oh, I'm lighter in an ounce and a half of semen.
00:15:41Enlightenment.
00:15:44Raise that.
00:15:44All right.
00:15:46So the questions are not flying fast and furious, which is totally fine, of course.
00:15:53So I'm going to throw in the Jordan Peterson stuff.
00:15:56I will keep half an eye out on the questions, of course.
00:16:01All right.
00:16:01Okay.
00:16:02Morality and purpose cannot be found within science.
00:16:04I see your question, Jay.
00:16:07So we'll get to that.
00:16:09Morality and purpose cannot be found within science.
00:16:14Fine young man in the blue shirt.
00:16:17What is up, Mr. Canada?
00:16:19How are you doing, man?
00:16:19I'm doing great.
00:16:20What's your name?
00:16:20Brian.
00:16:21I think it's interesting that you said the man they called Brian.
00:16:25All right.
00:16:25The morality and purpose can't be found in science.
00:16:27Actually.
00:16:28Within science.
00:16:28Within science.
00:16:29Sure, sure, sure, sure.
00:16:30Purpose, I actually grant you because purpose is subjective, right?
00:16:33Unless you want to boil it down to the purpose of life is just to procreate, right?
00:16:36Okay, so he's not going to say that the purpose, I'm going to speed this up just a smidge, but
00:16:40the purpose of life, yes, is not just to, not just to procreate, for sure.
00:16:44Okay.
00:16:46Sure, whatever.
00:16:47Morality is actually something that we do see.
00:16:49We actually have examples of Neanderthals and older individuals found in the tribe.
00:16:53Okay, so Jordan Peterson says you can't get morality out of science.
00:16:58And this guy says, well, tens of thousands of years ago, long before there was science,
00:17:02we had morality.
00:17:03And it's like, that actually serves Jordan Peterson's point completely perfectly.
00:17:08So I'm not really sure.
00:17:10It's just a listening thing.
00:17:11If he says morality can't come out of science, and then you talk about a vastly pre-scientific
00:17:17system of morality or situation of morality, then that's not listening to the objection.
00:17:25That's just saying stuff.
00:17:26So most people have a bunch of talking points.
00:17:28And whatever you, and we had this in, I did the telegram chat earlier today.
00:17:31Most people have a bunch of talking points, and they just try and jam those talking points
00:17:35into whatever it is that you're saying.
00:17:37And this guy has a talking point, like, hey, man, Neanderthals have morality.
00:17:42And it's like, but that's not relevant to Jordan Peterson's point.
00:17:45So it's just coming up and saying stuff that you've memorized as if you're actually contributing
00:17:48to the conversation.
00:17:50Missing an arm, missing teeth, still alive somehow in his 40s, 50s, right?
00:17:53Typically, you're a Neanderthal.
00:17:55You can't eat.
00:17:55You can't hunt.
00:17:56You die, right?
00:17:57But we know the members of his heart were taking care of him, right?
00:17:59Okay.
00:17:59So this is to say that morality is taking care of others.
00:18:04Absolutely false.
00:18:07Absolutely false.
00:18:08I mean, there are plenty of species in nature that take care of others.
00:18:15I think of the amount of effort that birds have to do to do their mating dances, to build
00:18:20their nests, to go and get food, and to half-chew it, to regurgitate it into their children's
00:18:26or their chicks' bellies and so on.
00:18:30It's crazy, right?
00:18:31So the idea that, well, you know, some animals take care of each other, and therefore that's
00:18:37morality, is to say that all genetic, energy-focused preferences are the same as morality.
00:18:46Come on.
00:18:47I mean, the father lion play fights with his baby lions, right, with the lion cups, to
00:18:55teach them how to hunt.
00:18:56Is that morality?
00:18:58He's doing beneficial things, expending energy in order to benefit his cups, right?
00:19:03So, yes, that is not morality, right?
00:19:12So the idea that there were nice people in the past.
00:19:15So let's just theorize for a second here.
00:19:20Why would Neanderthals, why would they want to take care of those who are older and somewhat
00:19:27disabled?
00:19:28Well, a couple of reasons.
00:19:29Number one, they're available to take care of the offspring, as grandparents do, right?
00:19:34Female fertility tends to fade out when there's going to be more benefit to the offspring from
00:19:39the woman investing in her grandchildren rather than trying to give birth to more live kids.
00:19:44So that's, right, so investment of the offspring.
00:19:47They may have a whole bunch of wisdom that is a value to teach the next generation, right?
00:19:51So somebody's got to teach the next generation the tribal habits of here's the food we gather,
00:19:55here's how we store it, here's how we process it, here's how we cook, here's how we hunt.
00:19:59Like, someone's got to transfer this knowledge, and for older people to transfer the knowledge
00:20:03who aren't hunting but who had experience hunting is a very useful thing.
00:20:07Also, you will encourage people to have more children if those children will take care of
00:20:10the elderly, which helps the tribe grow.
00:20:12So there's very practical, evolutionary, biological, genetic reasons as to why you'd want to take
00:20:17care of those who are wounded or disabled.
00:20:21Nothing wrong with it.
00:20:22It's great.
00:20:23And, of course, if they're wounded and disabled, they don't have as many calorie requirements
00:20:28because they're not out there hunting and doing all of this physical labor.
00:20:31So they're telling the stories, right?
00:20:35Telling the tribal stories so that there's cohesion within the tribe if there's an attack.
00:20:39All of these things.
00:20:40So the idea that this is somehow abstract morality and virtue and so on, nope, it's just economic,
00:20:46sorry, it's just evolutionary and genetic efficiency.
00:20:50So, all right.
00:20:52So we know that at some level early in our evolutionary history, we actually developed altruism.
00:20:57Altruism is doing things for others at no benefit or negative or at a loss to yourself.
00:21:05Altruism is helping others at no benefit or at a loss to yourself.
00:21:11Now, why is that morality?
00:21:12It can't be universalized.
00:21:14The concept of sacrifice cannot be universalized, right?
00:21:17If I say, well, it's moral for me to give you $100.
00:21:23It's moral for me to give you $100 because, and I don't even like you or your cause, right?
00:21:27So I'm sacrificing myself and my money to give you $100.
00:21:30Well, it's asymmetrical, right?
00:21:32Because if it's moral to give $100 to add a negative for you and we dislike each other,
00:21:38then I should give you $100.
00:21:39You should give me the $100.
00:21:40I give you the $100.
00:21:41You give me the $100.
00:21:42And it can't be universalized.
00:21:43It's asymmetrical.
00:21:45Asymmetrical morals are always a prequel or a manifestation of exploitation, right?
00:21:51There's just people telling you, well, you have to give stuff to me even if you don't like me
00:21:54because that's virtue.
00:21:56It's just a way of getting things for free.
00:22:00So, yeah, it's not virtue.
00:22:02We have examples of chimpanzees who actually have a basic understanding of fairness, right?
00:22:05If you give a chimpanzee two grapes, right, and his buddy gets three, right?
00:22:10He actually freaks out, right?
00:22:11But you give both chimps three grapes and they're good.
00:22:13We have examples of parrots.
00:22:15Except for the greedy chimps.
00:22:16Right.
00:22:17So I don't know.
00:22:18How is that morality that if you do things that are unequal, chimpanzees get angry?
00:22:24And again, Jordan Peterson is saying you cannot get an ought from an is.
00:22:29You cannot get morality out of science.
00:22:31And then for Brian here to say, ah, yes, but chimpanzees.
00:22:34And he was going to come up with something to do with parrots.
00:22:37And these aren't morals.
00:22:38These are just instincts that are beneficial to the tribe.
00:22:42Sharing equally produces less conflict.
00:22:44So the chimps don't tear each other apart for inequality, right?
00:22:47I mean, if you've ever – my brother used to make this joke with regards to his kids
00:22:51that you needed an atomic way scale to make sure that if you, say, split a popsicle in two
00:22:56or tried to give, you know, a tub of ice cream to both kids half and half,
00:23:00it was like, eh, slightly more, slightly less, right?
00:23:02For the greedy chimps.
00:23:05They want four graves.
00:23:06They want four graves.
00:23:07You know, those do exist, right?
00:23:08But we have similar examples where we do animal tests, right?
00:23:11And so the greedy chimps, right?
00:23:12So this is Jordan Peterson's point is that, yes, you can say that there are these tendencies,
00:23:16but there are also the, quote, sociopathic Neanderthals or greedy chimps or whatever,
00:23:20the people who just want more and more and more, which means it's not a universal instinct.
00:23:26So morality is intrinsic.
00:23:28I think –
00:23:28So it precedes science.
00:23:30I think –
00:23:31Right.
00:23:31So he's saying morality is intrinsic, which means it can't be morals.
00:23:34It's just an – I mean, if chimps do it, it's not morality, right?
00:23:36That's like saying, you know what, man, chimps can catch a ball you throw, therefore chimps
00:23:40are physicists.
00:23:41It's like, nope, you've got to have – understand the abstractions, not just manifest the behaviors.
00:23:46That actually a better way to define it would be that social animals, which we are, right,
00:23:51require some level of morality or –
00:23:54Into what?
00:23:55I'm not disagreeing.
00:23:55Sure.
00:23:56So why do we require some level of morality, and why is that morality just about, quote,
00:24:01taking care of or giving resources to others?
00:24:04Why?
00:24:04Why do we need that?
00:24:05Human societies, all human societies, past, present, and hopefully not in the distant future,
00:24:12all societies run on asymmetrical false morality and predatory coercive exploitation.
00:24:20All!
00:24:21All of them!
00:24:22No exceptions!
00:24:25No exceptions.
00:24:28So is it moral to carve off a certain group of individuals and say, well, you guys can initiate
00:24:34the use of force at will, but everyone else has to be peaceful.
00:24:36Well, that is how societies work.
00:24:43Well, you see, we need a certain level of ethics in society because we're social animals.
00:24:46It's like, okay, then why the living fuck are American children, to take one example out of many,
00:24:52why are American children born over a million dollars in debt?
00:24:57Because we need a whole system of morality.
00:25:00Why is it that the government can just declare a war, take your money, use it to provoke people overseas,
00:25:06and then you have to deal with the blowback and you have to be drafted to deal with the war?
00:25:11How is that moral?
00:25:12You know, you work for 50 years, and then the government prints 40% of the money over the last couple of years
00:25:22and inflates away 20 of your 50 years.
00:25:25They have just enslaved you through inflation, through money printing.
00:25:29They've just enslaved you for 50 years.
00:25:32They've just put you in a fluorescent fucking cubicle jail with Janet from HR breathing down your neck
00:25:38for all your social media posts from when you were a teenager.
00:25:41They just put you in fluorescent jail for 20 fucking years.
00:25:45But we see, we need this morality to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:25:47Anyway.
00:25:48Require that.
00:25:49Because it's the only way that social groups can actually survive, right?
00:25:51That's my point with regards to science.
00:25:53Thank you very much.
00:25:53It's the only way.
00:25:54So, apparently, societies need morality because it's the only way for social groups to survive.
00:26:03Okay.
00:26:03Genghis Khan was one of the most successful genetically, right?
00:26:07Power, political power genetically, was one of the most successful human beings to have ever lived.
00:26:12Where were his morals?
00:26:15His genes have survived and flourished.
00:26:17He's still on the Mongolian currency, for God's sakes.
00:26:19There's statues all over the place of Genghis Khan.
00:26:26So, this is all just like a fat, hyper-feminine, nice, absolutely zero understanding of history.
00:26:36Absolutely.
00:26:36I mean, the Aztecs in South America, Central America, the Aztecs were unbelievably brutal.
00:26:44They tortured children for their cry-and-he's-happy God.
00:26:51Cannibals, right?
00:26:52The Maori in New Zealand are cannibals and rapists, right?
00:26:57What are they talking about?
00:26:58Your morals are needed for human survival.
00:27:00It's like, genetically, human survival is driven historically, not morally, but historically, it's driven on violence and rape.
00:27:09But, in a state of nature, right?
00:27:12And, sort of, so, yeah, it's all just very abstract and has no actual practical understanding of history.
00:27:19Very much.
00:27:20Is that?
00:27:21Precisely the point that you just made, that science has to exist within a moral framework that isn't in itself scientific.
00:27:26How is it not scientific?
00:27:27Well, because it's not derived from the scientific process, as you just indicated.
00:27:30It's not derived from the scientific process.
00:27:31Hang on a second.
00:27:32Hang on a second.
00:27:32We are social animals, and we need that to exist as a group, right?
00:27:35Okay, so Jordan Peterson's point is flawless.
00:27:39You know, I've got my criticism of him when it comes to religion and atheism, but his point here is flawless.
00:27:47And the fact that Brian, the man they call Brian, that he doesn't get it is kind of incomprehensible to me.
00:27:53You know, morality is supposed to include free speech.
00:28:06And how is free speech doing these days?
00:28:10Well, it's being utterly fucking decimated.
00:28:12I mean, the British police are arresting a thousand people a month for social media posts.
00:28:20Holy crap.
00:28:23Absolutely mad.
00:28:28Hang on a second.
00:28:31We are social animals, and we need that to exist as a group, right?
00:28:33So the fact that you need something to exist as a group doesn't mean that there's such a thing as morality.
00:28:38Needing for something to exist as a group.
00:28:41And how is that morality if it's local?
00:28:45Right, so you've got group A, you've got group B.
00:28:46They believe different things.
00:28:49Group A believes they're superior to group B.
00:28:50Group B believes that they're superior to group A.
00:28:53Yeah, Islam, I mean, go look at how Islam spread, right?
00:28:59I mean, the idea that it's all just morals and virtue and being nice to people and binding up people's broken arms and bringing them food, although they've lost an eye.
00:29:08I mean, I don't even, like, how can you be this completely blind to everything that's going on in history and around you?
00:29:16Like, that's just amazing to me.
00:29:18But this is privilege, right?
00:29:20It's been made people who grew up in the suburbs who just, oh, everything's so peaceful and nice and lovely.
00:29:23And it's like, what we have and what we're losing is utterly out of the norm.
00:29:35It is way off the bell curve of human history.
00:29:38The relative piece of the high-trust society, the relative piece that I grew up with in society, absolutely outside the norm.
00:29:45And then people are like, well, but we need to be nice to each other and we need altruism.
00:29:48It's like, bro, understand the incredible outlier that you happen to be living in.
00:29:54The unbelievable outlier that you happen to be living in is not human history at all.
00:30:02You pointed to the morality of Neanderthals, to the morality of chimpanzees.
00:30:11They didn't derive that from science.
00:30:13They don't need to.
00:30:13That's not how that works.
00:30:14That's my point.
00:30:15They don't need to.
00:30:16That's not how that works.
00:30:17That's exactly what.
00:30:19So, Jordan Peter is saying you can't derive morals from science.
00:30:24And he said, well, you don't need to.
00:30:26That's how it works.
00:30:27And so, these people are in complete agreement and pretending to disagree.
00:30:34Science explains it.
00:30:35Science doesn't explain morality.
00:30:37It doesn't explain how social animals would need to be altruistic.
00:30:39Well, that's a complicated question.
00:30:41But we see it, though.
00:30:42Yeah, but explaining the evolution of morality and explaining morality itself aren't the same thing.
00:30:46Okay, so you're asking why does this happen?
00:30:48I ask.
00:30:49Yes, that's more accurate.
00:30:50Because we're social animals and we need to be.
00:30:51Yeah, but there's more to it than that.
00:30:52Is there?
00:30:53Sure, sure, for example.
00:30:54So, we're moral animals that have a sense of the future.
00:30:56Sure, sure.
00:30:57Okay, that makes us unique.
00:30:58And that's.
00:30:59Okay, so a sense of the future.
00:31:01So, this is very common among atheists is to blend and to smudge and to merge what human
00:31:09beings do with what animals do, right?
00:31:12Which is what this guy did.
00:31:13Human beings, Neanderthals, which are not specifically Homo sapiens, and chimpanzees, right?
00:31:19So, he's saying, well, we're kind of like animals plus a little, right?
00:31:24We're animals, you know, we're on the same continuum as animals, and we're not.
00:31:28We're absolutely not in any way close to animals.
00:31:30Animals can't do one billionth of one percent of what human beings can do.
00:31:35So, we're not just animals plus.
00:31:39We're not just beasts of the field and forest with a little bit of shine.
00:31:46We're not just a car with a new coat of paint, and we're not just a cake with a little extra
00:31:51icing, right?
00:31:55So, this idea that morality grows out of in-group genetic preference is to say that human beings
00:32:03are specifically tribal, and they, what they call ethics is actually tribal success, and
00:32:08tribal success comes at the expense very often of other tribes.
00:32:11Again, if you look at the indigenous population of North America, they were doing the most appalling
00:32:15stuff, scalping each other, raping each other, enslaving each other.
00:32:18The Cherokee were almost genocided at one point.
00:32:21So, yeah, that's, he's saying that that's what?
00:32:24That's the good?
00:32:27I don't know.
00:32:27It's strange.
00:32:29Structures are morality.
00:32:30No, actually, there are other animals that can predict the future.
00:32:32No, I agree.
00:32:33So, he's saying that human beings have the capacity to predict the future, right?
00:32:36So, they can say, well, I want to send a spaceship past Saturn.
00:32:40So, I got to predict the position, and the right payload, and the angle, and the speed,
00:32:44and the propulsion, and the acceleration, right?
00:32:47And he's saying, well, but birds build nests before they have eggs.
00:32:50Like, it's not the same.
00:32:52It's not the same at all.
00:32:54No, tigers.
00:32:54Actually, there was a tiger at the SF Zoo that killed somebody.
00:32:57Hunting animals?
00:32:58No, no, no, no, no.
00:32:59No.
00:33:00Kids brew shit at the tiger.
00:33:01The tiger actually plotted its escape, and it found the kids.
00:33:04I'm not saying that animals can't think.
00:33:05Yeah, my brother and I, we poured some sand or dust down a wasp's nest, and it was like
00:33:14two hours later, I got stung by a wasp, which had never happened before.
00:33:17So, clearly, they saw me, and they chased me down, and I got stung.
00:33:22And I remember rolling around.
00:33:23I was about six or so.
00:33:24I remember rolling around in my flat, you know, like holding my arm because it was so painful.
00:33:29I'd never been stung by a wasp before, and it was like right after we poured some sand
00:33:33down the wasp's nest that they came and found me and stung me.
00:33:38So, that's exactly the same as putting a spaceship past Saturn.
00:33:44I think of the future is what I'm saying.
00:33:45Voted out by the majority.
00:33:47Thank you, man.
00:33:47Good man.
00:33:48Yep.
00:33:49He still hasn't answered the question.
00:33:50How does science prove morality?
00:33:52Science can prove that reciprocal altruism can benefit a gene pool.
00:33:56That doesn't prove morality because reciprocal altruism occurs in a wide variety of creatures.
00:34:02Hey, Jordan Peterson, how you doing?
00:34:04How you doing?
00:34:04My name is Luke.
00:34:05Nice to meet you.
00:34:05Good to see you, Luke.
00:34:06So, your claim that morality and purpose can only be found in science is a little shaky
00:34:10because I think that your claim…
00:34:11Morality and…
00:34:12So, he says your claim that morality and purpose can only be found in science, but
00:34:16no, morality and purpose cannot be found within science.
00:34:20So, is he missing things completely?
00:34:22But then, this is somebody, again, they're just setting up their talking points, right?
00:34:25So, your claim that morality and purpose can only be found in science…
00:34:29It's the exact opposite of Jordan Peterson's claim.
00:34:32I mean, it's right there on the title.
00:34:33Not that this guy can see it, but Mr. Manbun.
00:34:36All right.
00:34:36It's a little shaky because I think that your claim is really being framed to be morality
00:34:40and purpose can only be found in religion.
00:34:42Is that how you're kind of framing it?
00:34:43I would say that the domain of religion is the domain of morality and purpose, yes.
00:34:48Exactly.
00:34:48And also, that science is actually structured, at least in part, technically, to eliminate
00:34:52such considerations from its purview a priori.
00:34:55Okay.
00:34:55That's why we define science as value-free.
00:34:58But that has to be wrong because scientists have to prioritize their attention toward something
00:35:02before they can even engage in observation.
00:35:04Okay.
00:35:04And that act of prioritization of attention is a value-predicated act.
00:35:09And so, I can continue.
00:35:11There's all sorts of things we have to assume about science before it can take place.
00:35:14Okay.
00:35:15So, what I'm specifically pointing out here is about religion in particular, since you
00:35:18yourself are a Christian, right?
00:35:20That's…
00:35:20People debate about that, and I generally don't discuss it publicly.
00:35:23Okay.
00:35:23I understand that.
00:35:24And me, myself, I am a former young earth creationist fundamentalist.
00:35:27Oh, yeah.
00:35:28So, I have experience in this.
00:35:29I used to run a TikTok channel directed about apologetics about the Bible, specifically
00:35:34in this type of facet with morality, evolution, and such, and going back and forth with that.
00:35:39So, in the Bible, it talks a lot about slavery, right?
00:35:42Yes.
00:35:42Yes.
00:35:42So, in that, it teaches you how to take care of a slave.
00:35:44Rather than saying slavery is wrong, I think it should say that.
00:35:47No, it says that in the story of Moses.
00:35:48It says slavery is incorrect.
00:35:49It says it's moral.
00:35:50That's why Moses leads his people away from slavery.
00:35:52No, it doesn't say that slavery is incorrect.
00:35:54It says that the enslavement of Moses and his people is incorrect, and they should be
00:35:57free, but not on an abstract level, that human beings should not be subject to the coercive
00:36:02control of rulers, because then the Bible would be an anarchic document.
00:36:06But why does the Bible predicate and tell people exactly how to take care of a slave?
00:36:11Isn't that immoral?
00:36:11Don't…
00:36:12Wouldn't you say that culturally we've evolved as a species, as he said earlier about empathy?
00:36:15Yeah, I would say that the reason we evolved, so to speak, away from slavery was because
00:36:19the West was founded on Judeo-Christian morality and the presumption that every person was made
00:36:23in the image of God, and so slavery itself became immoral, and that was established by Protestants.
00:36:27Well, no.
00:36:30I think that slavery…
00:36:32Well, sorry, let's…
00:36:35It's not…
00:36:35Because Christianity had been around for, you know, 15, 16, 17, 1800 years, depending on
00:36:41sort of how you count the sort of slavery thing.
00:36:43Christianity had been around for a long time, and it was slavery was the end result of other
00:36:50things, in particular improvements in parenting.
00:36:54But the idea that Christianity alone is responsible for the end of slavery is saying, well, why was
00:37:00there a 17 or 1800 year lag?
00:37:03Which is not inconsiderable when you're saying, this causes this.
00:37:05It's like, yeah, but 1800 years later, it's got to be something else.
00:37:08Christian Christians in the UK who then…
00:37:10In other words, the further that people got away from Jesus, the more they valued the
00:37:16teachings of the Bible.
00:37:17That doesn't really make sense.
00:37:19…invinced the UK government for 200 years to go to war on slavery.
00:37:21And what do you say that this is about the cultural evolution of humans in general, rather
00:37:24than just Christianity?
00:37:25No, I think it's the flowering of the ideas that were embedded in the biblical texts
00:37:29across long spans of time.
00:37:31I feel like this is just humans editing based on the cultural evolution.
00:37:35And what do you mean by…
00:37:36Well, but it is certainly true that the Bible tells people how to take care of their slaves.
00:37:40Which not… and taking care of them is not saying, free them, right?
00:37:45Just.
00:37:46Just?
00:37:47Yeah, just humans.
00:37:48Well, humans.
00:37:49Everything.
00:37:49Well, based on culture and history, right?
00:37:51We get better…
00:37:52Well, they did do it based on culture and history, but culture and history have their
00:37:55foundations too, so…
00:37:56Well, yeah, but we're talking about slavery.
00:37:58So many people bolstered it based on the Bible.
00:38:00Everyone…
00:38:00Based on the Bible.
00:38:02They looked at it and they justified it in the United States and the Deep South.
00:38:04They justified slavery based on the Bible.
00:38:05Yeah, but the main thrust of Protestant thought in particular was stringently against slavery
00:38:09and it was about the only movement in the history of the human race that had an anti-slavery
00:38:13direction.
00:38:13Which was driven by humans and their understanding of morality.
00:38:16Well, that's one way of looking at it.
00:38:16Well, it depends.
00:38:17It's the same with women's suffrage.
00:38:18I mean, women's…
00:38:18The patriarchy…
00:38:19What do you mean it was driven by humans?
00:38:21Humans drove slavery too.
00:38:23Yes, exactly.
00:38:23Also, there's no argument there.
00:38:25If slavery and anti-slavery were both driven by humans, what does your claim that they were driven
00:38:29by humans have to do with it?
00:38:30Evolving morality based on the culture within the society that they live in.
00:38:33So, with women's suffrage as well, it's a very similar topic in the Bible.
00:38:36There are denominations in Christianity, such as Pentecostal movement, which do bolster
00:38:40women to be pastors, right?
00:38:41Which I think that's a great thing to do.
00:38:43But most like to disregard women.
00:38:45Where do you think the idea that human beings were sufficiently equal to all vote and not
00:38:48be slaves came from?
00:38:49Humans.
00:38:50Yeah, but so did the idea of slavery.
00:38:52So did the idea of God.
00:38:54Fine, but what's your point?
00:38:55Like, you're not making an argument.
00:38:56You're just saying all thoughts come from humans, regardless of the thoughts.
00:38:59No, that's actually a very good, again, Dr. Peterson, a very smart fellow and a good
00:39:03debater, no doubt.
00:39:05So, that is very true.
00:39:10And the question of where the end of slavery came from, again, there's lots of different
00:39:19arguments.
00:39:20One that I would make would be that the end of slavery came out of the Black Death, right?
00:39:24So, the Black Death wiped out a third, sometimes even a half of the general population.
00:39:28And so, the serfs, the slaves had a much better bargaining position and the lords and
00:39:34the landowners had to make pretty significant concessions in order to get people to work
00:39:41from them.
00:39:41Some of those concessions involve freedom.
00:39:43So, then what happened was when you gave more freedoms to your workers, you found out,
00:39:50lo and behold, that they were more productive, right?
00:39:54So, you had a shortage of workers, you give more concessions to workers, you start to
00:39:58erase serfdom, which was a prequel to the erasure of slavery.
00:40:04And, I mean, slavery is worse than serfdom, but serfdom had to go first because it was
00:40:09more tied to the Western land ownership structure and land productivity structure.
00:40:15So, what they did was they, you had the Black Death, the Black Death restricted the number
00:40:20of workers, therefore the landowners had to give many more concessions to the workers.
00:40:25They had to give them more freedom, more ownership, more property rights, more liberties, and so
00:40:28on.
00:40:29And then, they very quickly found out that the more freedoms their workers had, the more
00:40:35productivity their land produced.
00:40:38Now, that's a very powerful thing.
00:40:40It's a very powerful thing.
00:40:42So, there then became a race between lords within a country and countries within the international
00:40:51framework to say, who can we liberate the most to become the most productive?
00:40:57So, for instance, if you've got Lord John and Lord Ralph, right?
00:41:01Lord John and Lord Ralph.
00:41:03Now, Lord John gives his workers a whole bunch of freedoms, and then they produce 50% more as
00:41:09a result of that, right?
00:41:11And maybe he taxes half of that or whatever.
00:41:13But they're still producing 25% more.
00:41:16So, because Lord John, I think it was Lord John, sorry, maybe go backwards, because the
00:41:23Lord who gives his serfs more freedom ends up with more wealth, so he can buy out the
00:41:29other guys, and this is how that kind of freedom spreads.
00:41:32So, then the other guy is like, holy crap.
00:41:34Also, he might lose workers to go over to the freer démons, the freer lands, right?
00:41:41And so, he's then got to offer more concessions, more freedoms, and then it becomes an upward
00:41:45spiral.
00:41:46And then what happens is you end up with so much land productivity, and I wrote about
00:41:50this in my novel, Just Poor.
00:41:52You should get it at justpoornovel.com.
00:41:54But I wrote about all of this, about you had 10, 15, sometimes even 20 times the crop
00:42:00productivity with winter crops, with turnips, with, you know, there's a whole, Turnip Townsend,
00:42:05like there was whole books written and all of this kind of stuff about how to increase
00:42:08agricultural yields, but all of that had to do with property rights and trading rights
00:42:13and market rights and freedom.
00:42:17So, when you start to get a significant excess of crops being produced, you end up with an
00:42:23urban proletariat, right?
00:42:25There's not, you don't need that many workers on the land, and so you kick people off the
00:42:30land.
00:42:30This is called the enclosure movement, and then they end up in the city, and they're a
00:42:35great pool of labor for the beginning and the foundations of the Industrial Revolution.
00:42:39You can't have an Industrial Revolution unless you have excess food productivity in the countryside,
00:42:44because there's just not enough for the city dwellers to live on, right?
00:42:49Cities all survive on excess crops from the country.
00:42:53So, there was a war between those who gave their workers more freedom, whether it was
00:43:04urban or rural, there was a war between those who gave their workers more freedom and those
00:43:10who gave their workers less freedom or kept their freedom limited.
00:43:14And this was not just within particular countries where the most liberal lords ended up with the
00:43:21greatest productivity, the greatest wealth they could buy at the other people, they could bribe
00:43:23the king more, they could move up in the hierarchy because they were wealthier.
00:43:27And then this also occurred between countries, so that the more productive countries, and in
00:43:33particular I'm thinking of England and, let's say, the Netherlands, right?
00:43:38And it was very productive.
00:43:39And the Netherlands was actually the birth of the stock market, which is the defining characteristic
00:43:43of a free market.
00:43:45And so, the countries that liberated their serfs and their workers, such as England, ended up
00:43:52with immense amounts of power.
00:43:54Not just in terms of economic productivity, but once you give people their liberties, they
00:43:58become incredibly creative and productive, right?
00:44:01So, you had the invention of all sorts of ships and weaponry, navigation systems, transportation
00:44:07systems, the train, and I think it was 1825 that the train first was really the steam engine,
00:44:14because there's intellectual property rights, there is the ability to buy and sell, there's
00:44:19a stock market so you can get the investment.
00:44:21So, you get this cycle where the most economically liberated countries win the race of colonialism.
00:44:29So, of course, we just want to keep that going until people are free from all political
00:44:35violations of persons of property, but, so the idea that, so that is a start, right?
00:44:44Is that a perfect explanation?
00:44:46It really depends on whether you say, well, it was the Black Death or whatever it was, right?
00:44:50I mean, it could be any number of things, but the Black Death was certainly a pivotal and
00:44:53seminal event in European history to the point where, when we know from the very facts of
00:44:58the matter that massive concessions were wrung from the Lords by the workers on their
00:45:04on their fields, on their lands, and as a result of that, productivity went through the roof
00:45:10and people got kicked off their land and went to the cities.
00:45:12Like, that for sure we know.
00:45:13There's all the dominoes, right?
00:45:14So, it's not that the Black Death caused it because the Black Death hit other people,
00:45:18but the Black Death plus offering more liberty to the serfs and the workers and so on.
00:45:27And so, it's not just, well, Christianity just, you know, happened to, right, win this.
00:45:35And, I mean, another argument would be that why did it come out of the Protestant countries?
00:45:44Well, the Protestant countries, by allowing the most educated to have children, right?
00:45:50So, remember, in Catholic countries, a lot of the most educated and the highest IQ people
00:45:53are priests and the priests can't have kids, at least not officially.
00:45:56I mean, I know there was a lot of stuff on the wayside, but so the countries that became
00:46:00more Protestant had higher IQ people have children, given that IQ is 80% genetic by late
00:46:06teens and I think goes up even further after that.
00:46:09You have more and more intelligent people over generations.
00:46:14And so, that is another aspect of things as well.
00:46:20Well, in other words, freedom for priests to get married and have children, which occurred
00:46:24in Protestant countries and not in Catholic countries in general, that level of freedom
00:46:29was positive for the intellects of the people over generations, right?
00:46:37You've got smarter and smarter people.
00:46:39So, did it come specifically out of Christianity?
00:46:42Because, as Dr. Peterson says, it's the Protestants.
00:46:45Well, why was it the Protestants?
00:46:46Well, the greater the abstraction, usually, the higher IQ that is required not to understand
00:46:54it, but to discover it, right?
00:46:55So, the greater the abstraction, the higher the IQ is required to discover it.
00:47:00So, look at physics, look at UPB to pat myself on the back a little bit.
00:47:04And so, not to explain it and not to understand it, but to discover it, to figure it out.
00:47:09So, if we're going to say, well, it came out of the Protestant tradition, well, the Protestant
00:47:12tradition was not the, quote, Christian tradition in many ways.
00:47:16It was a rebellion against what was going on in the church, or the Catholic church at
00:47:21the time, which was the sale of indulgences, was one of the big issues that Martin Luther
00:47:24had, which is that the Catholic priest was selling for gold reduction of your time in
00:47:32limbo for the sins you'd committed on earth, right?
00:47:33So, you didn't go straight to heaven.
00:47:34You went to limbo.
00:47:35You might be there for 100,000 years.
00:47:36But if you give the priest 20 gold pieces, he'll knock 10,000 years off that.
00:47:40And then they began to sell the indulgences, not just about past deeds, but about future
00:47:46deeds.
00:47:46You say, oh, I'm going to go have a dirty weekend with my mistress.
00:47:49Here's five gold pieces, and I'm already forgiven.
00:47:51I can go and have fun without a conscience and all that kind of stuff, right?
00:47:54So, it became the sale of imaginary release from limbo.
00:48:00And it became purchasing forgiveness, not through contrition and morality, but through cold,
00:48:05hard cash.
00:48:06So, one of the things that they were rebelling against was that level of corruption.
00:48:10So, if it comes out of the Protestant nations, it's because the Protestant nations allowed
00:48:17the smartest people to have the most kids.
00:48:19It's the same thing in the Jewish community.
00:48:20The rabbis tend to be the smartest, and statistically, we've seen that they have the most kids, and
00:48:24that is a very, very big power.
00:48:26So, the idea—and this would explain why it didn't happen for 16, 17, 18, 100 years
00:48:31after Christianity was established—that you look at what happened economically.
00:48:36You look at what happened in terms of land ownership and in terms of self-ownership when it came to trade
00:48:43and voluntary employment and so on, and also the Protestant Reformation, you know, 15th century and so on.
00:48:51A couple of hundred years later, when you've had, you know, eight to nine generations of smart people
00:48:56getting smarter, well, they can grasp the abstractions of the universal value of human life,
00:49:00which was what was used as the underpinnings to the end of slavery.
00:49:05So, anyway, I just want to point out that—and again, I'm not saying you get all of that across
00:49:08in this kind of debate, but—
00:49:09It's not driven by a higher power.
00:49:12It's driven on our experiences as chains, which is what is best for all people.
00:49:15Is it driven by conscience?
00:49:17It could be, which conscience is also something that has evolved over time, and I think that's
00:49:20something that does evolve within morality and empathy.
00:49:23Okay, I don't understand the point that you're making.
00:49:25My point is that God influenced slavery.
00:49:27People looked at the Bible and went, this is moral, because God says it, just like woman's
00:49:31suffrage, and just like homosexuality.
00:49:33All human societies were slave-only, so you can't blame that on the Bible.
00:49:37If humanity—
00:49:38Well, you can blame it if God is supposed to be all-good and all-knowing, right?
00:49:43This is the one test of the Bible, right?
00:49:46Is if God is all-powerful and all-knowing, there should have been things in the Bible that
00:49:50were completely incomprehensible to the current society, to the society of the time, right?
00:49:55That's—if I say, hey, man, I've got a pipeline to omniscience, right?
00:50:01Right, then you can ask the Bilbo Baggins question, right?
00:50:05You put your hands in your pocket and say, play some pocket pool, right?
00:50:08And so you ask the Bilbo Baggins question, right?
00:50:11What has it got in its pocketses, right?
00:50:14So you put your hand in it.
00:50:15If I say, hey, I've got a pipeline to omniscience, then the way that you would test that, of course,
00:50:21is you would say—you would ask me something I couldn't know, right?
00:50:25What have I got in my pocket?
00:50:26Now, if I answered that, okay, and I kept answering, right?
00:50:29Then you'd say, well, you couldn't possibly have that knowledge.
00:50:31Therefore, it is established that you have a pipeline to the divine, right?
00:50:38However, if I claim to have a pipeline to the divine—apparently this is my right arm,
00:50:43because it's right, it's correct—pipeline to the divine,
00:50:46but I never tell you anything or write anything down that I couldn't have known at the time, right?
00:50:54I mean, if you're going to write the Bible with reference to the omniscience of God,
00:51:01then if someone in ancient Roman times had written down E equals MC squared,
00:51:13we'd be like, whoa.
00:51:15Well, God knows E equals MC squared because God designed the whole architecture, right?
00:51:23So God completely knows E equals MC squared.
00:51:28So if someone in the Bible had written that down or the inverse square law or, I don't know,
00:51:34the price of Apple stock June 27th, 1997, that would be like, well,
00:51:40they couldn't possibly have known that at the time.
00:51:42There's no way they could have known that.
00:51:43So clearly, there's a pipeline to the divine.
00:51:47So if in general, slavery was accepted, but it was kind of understood that to be good,
00:51:55you had to treat your slaves reasonably well, then you would expect that in the Bible.
00:51:59The fact that some people fled slavery is not a condemnation of slavery at all, right?
00:52:07So it's like saying, well, some people escape unjust prisons, therefore all prisons are unjust.
00:52:12It's like, no, no, that's people escaping a gulag is different.
00:52:15Like, that would be good, I suppose, if they're innocent victims of totalitarianism versus, you know,
00:52:22people who escape who are put justly in prison because they're serial axe murderers.
00:52:26They go and escape and start chopping up the population Robert De Niro style.
00:52:29Well, then that's bad, right?
00:52:31So saying people escape a prison doesn't mean that all prisons are immoral, which they would
00:52:36be in an anarchic, not that punishment or confinement would be immoral, but the sort
00:52:41of state apparatus for controlling and managing these things.
00:52:43Well, not if you look at the broad sweep of history because it was the Protestant Christians.
00:53:12It's based on their interpretation of the Bible.
00:53:14It was the Protestant Christians.
00:53:15Which evolves over time.
00:53:16Let's pause there.
00:53:17You've been talking.
00:53:18Yes, and that's really rude to just not let Dr. Peterson make his case, right?
00:53:22He's got to make his case.
00:53:23And it's not the worst case in the world.
00:53:24It just doesn't explain why it took more than a millennia and a half.
00:53:30All right.
00:53:31So the first thing I would like to say is I would like to engage in this discussion in a
00:53:36symbiotic manner, I would not like to engage where there is one clear winner and one clear
00:53:42loser.
00:53:43Emotions are activated and ultimately comes about ego.
00:53:46So I'm just saying I'm really trying to understand your position, and I would just like you to
00:53:49really try to understand my position.
00:53:51Deal.
00:53:51Okay.
00:53:51Sounds good.
00:53:52With that, if you're saying that morality and purpose cannot come from science, is the
00:53:58opposite of that true, that morality and purpose can only come from God?
00:54:01So, I mean, what bothers me, of course, is that science is a methodology for understanding
00:54:06and predicting the nature and behavior of matter and energy, right?
00:54:10It's an objective, rational, empirical discipline for understanding the behavior of matter and
00:54:15energy.
00:54:16So when people say morality and purpose can't come from science, I get that.
00:54:24I get that.
00:54:25What I would like to have a discussion about is, can morality and purpose come from philosophy?
00:54:33Right?
00:54:34So science is a physical subset of philosophy as a whole.
00:54:38It uses reason and evidence in the pursuit, again, of understanding and predictability of
00:54:43the behavior of matter and energy.
00:54:44So, saying morality doesn't come from science is a category error, because science is not
00:54:54there for the production of morality.
00:54:57Philosophy is the all-discipline.
00:54:59Science is a sub-discipline.
00:55:00And the central purpose of philosophy is not science, but morality, because that's the one
00:55:05aspect of philosophy that is not shared by anything else.
00:55:09So, saying that morality, which is a discipline of philosophy and not of science, saying that
00:55:18morality doesn't come from science is like saying bread doesn't come from physics.
00:55:25Physics is not supposed to produce bread.
00:55:28Physics is supposed to be the analysis of the behavior and interactions of matter and energy.
00:55:33So, it's a category error.
00:55:40And it bothers me, of course, fundamentally, and this comes out of a lot of Richard Dawkins
00:55:43stuff, that people want to, atheists in particular, want to create a new deity called science.
00:55:49And they say, well, morality comes from evolution, which is scientific, and morality comes from
00:55:53biology, which is scientific, and therefore we can get morality from science.
00:55:57It's like, what the hell is wrong with philosophy as a source of morality?
00:56:01Right?
00:56:01I mean, philosophy, as I've proven with UPB, philosophy can produce, it's the only thing
00:56:07that can produce rational and consistent ethics.
00:56:09It's the only thing.
00:56:10Philosophy is the only discipline that can produce rational and consistent ethics, not
00:56:13religion, not science, no other, not language analysis, not history, no other discipline
00:56:19can produce universal morality other than philosophy.
00:56:23Science cannot do it.
00:56:25Because science is a description of what is, not what ought to be.
00:56:29I mean, you can't get the is from the ought.
00:56:30That's the sort of old distinction.
00:56:32Of course, saying that means that you have gotten an is from an ought, which you ought not
00:56:35get an is from an ought.
00:56:36So you've already crossed that Rubicon, and it's just a matter of figuring out which oughts
00:56:40are universal that claim to be universal.
00:56:42Morality and purpose can only come from God.
00:56:45That's a way of defining it, yes.
00:56:46Okay.
00:56:47That's a way of defining it.
00:56:49Oh, oh, come on, man.
00:56:53Right.
00:56:53That's good.
00:56:54So I would say that with regard to the first claim, say, atheists don't understand what they're
00:56:58rejecting.
00:56:58Because I would say, by definition, God is the unity upon which moral claims are based.
00:57:04God is the unity upon which moral claims are based.
00:57:07Because I'm all about the base, about the base, no worries.
00:57:12What does that even mean?
00:57:13God is the unity upon which moral claims are based.
00:57:18No, God commands morality.
00:57:20So the answer to morality from religion is we know what's good because God is all good,
00:57:24and God commands this.
00:57:25It's an argument from authority, and it's fundamentally buttressed by punishment and reward,
00:57:29by hell and heaven, respectively.
00:57:32It's an argument from authority.
00:57:35God is incomprehensible, all good.
00:57:36You have to do what he says.
00:57:38And if you do what he says, you go to heaven.
00:57:39If you don't do what he says, you go to hell.
00:57:41So it's an argument of authority and an argument from brutal consequence.
00:57:48It's not an argument.
00:57:49That's an appeal to authority followed by a threat of infinite torture or eternal orgasm of heaven, right?
00:57:58So moral claims are based.
00:58:00And, of course, the problem with religious morality is many problems.
00:58:08It's not rational.
00:58:09It's not empirical.
00:58:10It's not provable.
00:58:12It's relatively subjective because every god and every denomination and each individual within that denomination has different views of what's moral.
00:58:19It tends to amplify personality to the universal and the eternal, which produces a kind of narcissism and megalomania.
00:58:26Because if you believe that your particular instincts are at one with God's will, then you can't be contradicted and you can't show any particular self-restraint or self-criticism because you are united with God's will.
00:58:39God is universal, perfect, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-moral, all-good.
00:58:43So if you've self-identified a unity between your preferences and God's preferences, you know, it's like the old thing that both sides on the war or the sport are praying for God to give them victory, right?
00:58:59So that's number one.
00:59:03It tends to be subjective.
00:59:04And the subjectivity is not identified as subjectivity.
00:59:07So subjectivity is wound into universal, perfect objectivity in that the subjective preferences are united with universal divinity, which means they're no longer perceived as subjective, nor even objective in a human sense, but universal and perfect in the sense of God.
00:59:21So that's very dangerous, number one.
00:59:22And number two is that if God is the source of all morality, and the alternatives are not God and science.
00:59:31The alternatives are theology and philosophy.
00:59:34God and science, science is the new God, wherein atheists try to extract their religion.
00:59:42I dare say cult, a bit of an abused term.
00:59:44So the problem is that if God is the source of all morality, then you can eliminate morality by no longer believing in God.
00:59:57That's a big problem.
00:59:59You cannot eliminate morality by ceasing to believe in UPB any more than you can eliminate theories of gravity by refusing to believe in them.
01:00:07You're still subject to it.
01:00:08And, of course, people can say, I don't accept UPB, UPB is false, UPB is wrong.
01:00:16Okay, then they have to prove it, right?
01:00:17They have to, and they can't.
01:00:18They absolutely, UPB is beyond dispute.
01:00:21People have been hacking at it for, like, 17, 18 years.
01:00:24I've had endless debates about it.
01:00:26It's true.
01:00:28It's true, it's valid, it's factual.
01:00:30I mean, there may be details in which you can explain it better and so on, but stealing can never be universally preferable behavior.
01:00:38Because stealing means everybody should want to steal and be stolen from.
01:00:41Everybody should prefer stealing.
01:00:43But if people want to be stolen from, it's no longer stealing.
01:00:47The category collapses.
01:00:48It's a self-detonating argument.
01:00:49It cannot be universalized.
01:00:50The same thing with rape, assault, and murder.
01:00:54So, excuse me.
01:00:59You can disbelieve in UPB in the same way that you can disbelieve that two and two make four.
01:01:05But if somebody says to you, I reject two and two makes four, I think two and two make five, or the color blue, or a dragon, right?
01:01:21Then you would say, not that they're wrong, but that they're crazy.
01:01:24If somebody were to say to you, the earth is shaped like a banana and a dodecahedron, and my armpit at the same time, you wouldn't take that person seriously.
01:01:36They would have no place in a rational discussion, right?
01:01:39So people can reject UPB, but only by saying that two and two make blue.
01:01:43Or that it's true that all men are mortal.
01:01:49It's true that Socrates is a man, but it's not true that Socrates is mortal, right?
01:01:54You wouldn't, like, it's like, well, no, if all men are mortal and Socrates is a man, then Socrates is mortal.
01:01:59It's a basic syllogism, right?
01:02:01We're talking deductive.
01:02:02UPB is not inductive reasoning.
01:02:04It's not probability.
01:02:04It's not odds.
01:02:06UPB is 100%.
01:02:10It's deductive logic.
01:02:13It's not inductive.
01:02:14It's not odds are.
01:02:16So people who reject clear deductive reasoning are never taken seriously at all.
01:02:27Right?
01:02:28All birds can fly.
01:02:30A pigeon is a bird.
01:02:32Therefore, a bird can fly.
01:02:33A pigeon can fly, right?
01:02:35I mean, whatever.
01:02:36I mean, you could say, I don't know, emus and ostriches and so on, right?
01:02:39But so if people reject clear deductive syllogistical reasoning, nobody takes them seriously.
01:02:53If somebody just say, well, it's true that I owe you $1,000, but I don't owe you $1,000, you'd say, like, what?
01:02:58You just contradict?
01:02:59Like, and that's the sign of a broken brain, and nobody takes anybody seriously.
01:03:02So it's true that people can reject UPB, but only by casting themselves out of any rational discussion.
01:03:10If somebody were to say, I believe that gases both expand and contract when heated.
01:03:17Say, well, no, no, come on.
01:03:18It's got to be one or the other.
01:03:19It can't be both, right?
01:03:24Right?
01:03:24If somebody at the equator says, north is both this way and the opposite of this way, we would say, I don't know what's wrong with your brain, but this is not, right?
01:03:31It's not, right?
01:03:33So people can reject UPB once it's widely accepted and so on, and logically true.
01:03:37People can reject UPB, but nobody would take them seriously.
01:03:40They'd be completely ejected from rational discussions.
01:03:43You'd just be like, people would just roll their eyes and say, well, you have some emotional problem or some mental problem or some brain problem, so you can't.
01:03:48Like, if somebody says, Japan is in Africa, you don't, like, no.
01:03:55Like, have you seen that guy?
01:03:57He's on YouTube, and he asks the most blindingly obvious questions.
01:04:01Like, in what country is the Panama Canal?
01:04:05Japan.
01:04:07Yes.
01:04:08He says yes at the end of it with a face of despair.
01:04:11A face of despair.
01:04:12So philosophy can prove secular ethics through UPB.
01:04:21So God is the unity upon which moral claims are based.
01:04:24That's a definition.
01:04:26Okay, if there is a God, what is the purpose of life?
01:04:29Well, in the Christian tradition, the purpose of life is to engage in voluntary, upward, self-sacrifice, so that the kingdom of heaven can be established on earth.
01:04:39So you're trying to make it to heaven and avoid hell?
01:04:42Yes, that's a good way of thinking about it.
01:04:44What is the purpose of heaven?
01:04:47Do you understand?
01:04:48So here's the deal.
01:04:48At minimum, it's the opposite of endless suffering.
01:04:51How about that?
01:04:52Okay, and so should we…
01:04:54So what is the purpose of heaven?
01:04:56I don't think that that question is relevant to the concept of heaven, because happiness is the end goal of human activity as a whole, or at least self-satisfaction.
01:05:07And so it's like saying, if you're trying to get home, what's the purpose of trying to get home when you're home?
01:05:16Well, the purpose of trying to get home when you're home is no longer valid.
01:05:20It's been shed like the skin of a snake, because you try to get home, you work to get home, you're traveling to get home, you get home.
01:05:26So what's the purpose of getting home when you're home?
01:05:27Well, there is no purpose of getting home when you're home, and there is no purpose to heaven, because it's already infinite pleasure.
01:05:32Not try to achieve infinite suffering on planet Earth, and if we can achieve infinite suffering on planet Earth without God, avoiding it, if we can do that without God, then does that defeat your claim?
01:05:43Well, if we can avoid infinite suffering on Earth without God, can these people not just argue from first principles and define their terms?
01:05:54Yeah, except that it doesn't, you circumvented my initial definition, because I said that by definition God was the unified source of morality.
01:06:02Wait, the unified source of morality or the unified basis for morality?
01:06:10Source and basis are not the same thing.
01:06:13Basis is a foundation, source is a passive, like the source of a river is a passive entrance.
01:06:18All right.
01:06:19If we engage in a moral exercise.
01:06:20When you're talking about morality, though, when you really reverse engineer it and you get it down to its root, you're a psychologist, it really seems like it just has to deal with motivation.
01:06:28People are saying there is a God.
01:06:30It's more specific than that.
01:06:32Well, so let me ask you this.
01:06:33So if there is a God and there is a moral code and it doesn't come at your benefit, are you going to follow it?
01:06:39Wait, what?
01:06:39Sorry.
01:06:39I lost this thing there.
01:06:41There is a God and there is a moral code and it doesn't come at your benefit, are you going to follow it?
01:06:46And there is a God.
01:06:48It's more specific than that.
01:06:49Well, so let me ask you this.
01:06:51So if there is a God and there is a moral code and it doesn't come at your benefit, are you going to follow it?
01:06:56Well, of course, because the benefit is your soul.
01:06:59So your, for the atheist, means you as an individual mortal being.
01:07:04Your, for the Christian, is your soul.
01:07:06And the purpose of your soul, if it's massive suffering to get to heaven, then that's just like a little bit of dental drilling to save your teeth, right?
01:07:13So are you going to follow it?
01:07:16Well, for the Christian, yes, because it gets me to heaven.
01:07:19Freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show, by the way.
01:07:21I haven't even really been keeping track of donations, but I don't think they're flowing in and I'm working fairly hard here.
01:07:27It depends on how you define your benefit.
01:07:29If it's going to come at your expense, would you still follow it?
01:07:32If God came down and said, here is my moral code and you should follow it.
01:07:36But even if you follow it, you are still going to end up in hell.
01:07:39Are you going to follow it?
01:07:41Okay, so these are theoreticals that just don't make any sense at all.
01:07:46Here's my moral code.
01:07:46So God says, would you still follow it?
01:07:50If God came down and said, here is my moral code and you should follow it.
01:07:54But even if you follow it, you are still going to end up in hell.
01:07:57No, because God can't do that because to punish people for following virtue would be immoral.
01:08:01And God can't do that by definition.
01:08:04Are you going to follow it?
01:08:07Well, that was the question that was put to Job and to Christ, right?
01:08:11Because they were required to hang on.
01:08:13I'm asking your question.
01:08:14They were followed.
01:08:15They were required to withstand trials that would break anyone and maintain their upward orientation regardless.
01:08:21And they did that with the motivation of believing that this omnipotent, all-loving God would somehow turn it into a benefit.
01:08:29So they still did it solely for their benefit.
01:08:31So when you—
01:08:32Well, let's define—
01:08:32Yes, they did.
01:08:33Hang on, hang on.
01:08:33Let's define benefit.
01:08:35Like, if I did something for your sister, would that be to your benefit?
01:08:39Like, how are you defining your benefit?
01:08:40Do you mean one of your whims gratified now?
01:08:44Or do you mean you and everyone you love and know over some reasonable span of time?
01:08:47So when you're talking about whims, I think you're talking about something that's more dopamine.
01:08:52When you're talking about morality, you're talking about something that's more serotonin and more ultimately satisfying.
01:08:57So now we're in the biochemistry.
01:09:01Excellent.
01:09:02Instead of being programmed by the Ten Commanders, it's now programmed by dopamine and serotonin.
01:09:07Okay.
01:09:07You and I agree on a lot.
01:09:09I mean, when it comes to talking about how men should be masculine and things of that nature, you and I are 100% in agreement.
01:09:14We just don't agree on the justification that God is the only thing that provides morality.
01:09:18It's not a justification.
01:09:19It's a definition.
01:09:21What's the difference then?
01:09:22Between a definition and a justification.
01:09:24I mean, it's ultimately psychologically the same thing.
01:09:26Well, we have to define what we're talking about before we can just debate.
01:09:28Okay, well, so here's my position.
01:09:30So I said that God—
01:09:30So God being the basis of morality is not a definition.
01:09:34It's just putting a bunch of words together and thinking you've achieved some syllogism or some argument.
01:09:39I'm actually a non-theist.
01:09:41I'm not an atheist.
01:09:41I believe the human condition is one of uncertainty.
01:09:43And what that means is that I don't believe that you can conclude there is a God with certainty,
01:09:46and I don't believe that you can conclude that there is a God without uns in the same position.
01:09:50Now, with that, I don't care.
01:09:52I still wake up every day, and I have motivation to be a moral person.
01:09:56Define moral.
01:09:56Moral, what I ought to do.
01:09:58Okay, what I ought to do.
01:10:00That's not—that's not it.
01:10:03How do you come to that conclusion?
01:10:04What I ought to do, ultimately, it comes down to what not just benefits me, but what benefits the entire planet,
01:10:09what benefits the entire system.
01:10:11I think—
01:10:11Nope.
01:10:12Nope, nope, nope.
01:10:13No.
01:10:13You cannot say that morality is that which benefits everyone, because there are evil people who are harmed by your moral actions.
01:10:23Right?
01:10:23I mean, if you want to free a hostage from a kidnapper, then you are harming the kidnapper, and you are benefiting the hostage.
01:10:34So, there's three people, right?
01:10:36You benefit because you're doing a moral thing.
01:10:38You've released the hostage, so she's benefited.
01:10:41But the hostage taker, the kidnapper, is negatively affected.
01:10:44Maybe you kill him.
01:10:46Maybe you wound him.
01:10:46Maybe he goes to jail.
01:10:47Or maybe he just runs away and doesn't get the blackmail or whatever he was trying to get.
01:10:51So, the idea is, oh, I'm going to just benefit the whole world.
01:10:56It's going to benefit the whole world.
01:10:59Oh, my gosh.
01:11:01I think that your entire moral perspective comes from linear thinking, and when you look at the reality of the universe, it's actually more so holistic.
01:11:09So, when you look at how Aristotle defined God when he said that there had to be an unmoved move or an uncaused cause,
01:11:14he was defining God from a linear perspective, and you do the same with morality, and you do the same with purpose.
01:11:20How does my definition of morality hypothetically differ from yours?
01:11:24Because you're saying that there's something that exists in a vacuum, that it exists in and of itself.
01:11:29And nothing in the universe exists in a vacuum.
01:11:31Nothing exists in and of itself.
01:11:33It's a whole systems-based morality.
01:11:35Well, nothing exists in a vacuum.
01:11:37It's, by definition, a vacuum is without substances within it.
01:11:40So, yes, nothing exists in a vacuum, and bricks do not exist within clouds.
01:11:49So, yeah, I don't.
01:11:53It's a systems-based reality.
01:11:55Is there a hierarchical structure?
01:11:56Is there a hierarchical structure?
01:11:58That's what the quantum, the moment quantum comes in, you know you're just getting everlasting loads of intergalactic bullshit.
01:12:04Some things more important than others.
01:12:06I think some things lead to more benefits than others.
01:12:09Then, by your own definition, some things are more important than others.
01:12:11Yes.
01:12:12Take a pause there.
01:12:13You've been voted on.
01:12:14All right.
01:12:14So, I've got to stop here because it just, like, it hurts my brain to, this is like Freddie Mercury or, who is it, Frank Sinatra.
01:12:24Ah, there's a couple of strangers in there when you'd hear sounds that were atonal from the orchestra.
01:12:28I can only take this for a certain amount because, my God, just crazy.
01:12:32All right.
01:12:33So, appreciate that.
01:12:35Let's go back solo here.
01:12:36We will get to a couple of last questions from you guys.
01:12:39Freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show.
01:12:43Three bucks, a dollar, and a two dollars.
01:12:48Hmm.
01:12:50Hmm.
01:12:52Interesting.
01:12:54Interesting.
01:12:55Okay.
01:12:55Let's get to your, let's get to your questions.
01:13:00Hi, Seth.
01:13:01This is Jay with three bucks.
01:13:03I'm 40 and have a problem of throwing myself into regiments, then rebelling against them.
01:13:08My relationships have been with teammates in various pursuits, arts, dance, sports, chasing girls.
01:13:14I rebelled against that too and married a woman who I could not satisfy.
01:13:17I viewed the marriage as a challenge to satisfy a partner and become a good husband.
01:13:20The marriage was unhappy and is now over.
01:13:22No kids or alimony.
01:13:23What's up with me?
01:13:24I don't, given the information that you've provided, I have no idea how to answer that question.
01:13:30However, you can go to freedomain.com slash call and we can have a good old meaty chat about it.
01:13:35Yeah, I don't know.
01:13:37I don't know how to answer that.
01:13:39Why do atheists care about morals or ethics?
01:13:40They just enforce tribal rule.
01:13:43A chimp can shit and I can shimp.
01:13:45I'm a chimp.
01:13:46It's pretty funny.
01:13:47Epicurus says, I was raised peacefully and default to politeness in conflict.
01:13:56However, I feel that a massive disadvantage compared to more brutalized children when jockeying for dominance with other men.
01:14:01And this subservience results in much less interest from women.
01:14:04Men who are more eager to resort to violence attract women on a primal level that I don't.
01:14:07Any thoughts?
01:14:09Well, you, men who initiate the use of force are primitive and they attract primitive women.
01:14:16And if you want to be with a primitive woman, you're out of luck.
01:14:18If you want to be with a sophisticated, intelligent, moral woman, they are not drawn to violent men or aggressive men in that way.
01:14:26Assertive, yes.
01:14:27Aggressive, no.
01:14:28All right.
01:14:40UPP is disproved when those willing to enact it are outreproduced asymptotically.
01:14:46No, UPP is not disproved.
01:14:48No.
01:14:49UPP can only be disproved by finding logical contradictions within the arguments and formulations, which they aren't.
01:14:56There aren't.
01:14:58Steph clearly hasn't talked to Zuma women in the aggregate.
01:15:02Yes.
01:15:03Yes, I have not talked to Zuma women in the aggregate.
01:15:06What a wonderful thing you're providing to the world.
01:15:13All right.
01:15:14I really wish we could use Steph's brainpower on the issue, but he's overly idealistic and out of touch with the current dating climate.
01:15:19His methods worked for decades, but we need new tactics now.
01:15:22Yeah, apparently I don't know anybody who's under 50.
01:15:31Apparently I just don't know anybody who's under 50.
01:15:33I don't have a teenage daughter.
01:15:34I just, I don't know anybody.
01:15:35I don't have friends who've got kids.
01:15:36I don't have any contact with young people.
01:15:38I just, I don't talk to people in calling shows who are in their 20s.
01:15:42I just don't have a clue.
01:15:43Oh my gosh, that's funny.
01:15:47That's very funny.
01:15:49We should watch A Fresh and Fit with Steph or get him on.
01:15:53A Fresh and Fit, isn't it just mostly, I don't know, trashy people as a whole?
01:15:57I could be wrong, but.
01:15:58I mean, of course there are people, there are young women who are idiots.
01:16:08There are young men who are idiots.
01:16:09And the beautiful thing is that they're obvious idiots now.
01:16:12In the past they were much more camouflaged.
01:16:14So now they're obvious idiots and you can step over them to get to the quality women.
01:16:18No, there aren't any quality women.
01:16:19It's like, no, there are quality women.
01:16:21Absolutely are quality women.
01:16:23You're just not around you.
01:16:24And that's not my issue.
01:16:28Steph, glad to hear you again.
01:16:32I've been fasting for you since you got YouTube banned.
01:16:36Okay.
01:16:38All right.
01:16:39Any other questions, comments, issues, challenges, problems?
01:16:41Happy to hear whatever is on your minds.
01:16:45And I do appreciate your support at freedomain.com slash donate.
01:16:50That's freedomain.com slash donate.
01:16:55Freedomain.com slash donate.
01:16:57Thank you, Matt.
01:16:59Thank you, Dorbens.
01:17:00As always, a great pleasure.
01:17:02I appreciate that.
01:17:06Ba-do-do.
01:17:08Ba-do.
01:17:09All right.
01:17:09Let's check out something here.
01:17:11And if there are no more questions, I will close off for the night.
01:17:14We do appreciate you guys dropping by.
01:17:16It's great to be able to explain the world to everyone.
01:17:19And it doesn't particularly hurt that it helps me explain to myself.
01:17:22All right.
01:17:27Going once.
01:17:28Going twice.
01:17:30Thank you, Jay.
01:17:30I appreciate that.
01:17:32Thank you, Steph, for your amazing books.
01:17:33I've been thinking about the present a lot recently.
01:17:36Fantastic show, Steph.
01:17:37Donated a day or so directly.
01:17:38Your work is valued greatly.
01:17:40Thank you very much.
01:17:42The Jordan Peterson video seemed like a speed dating session from hell.
01:17:45That's pretty funny.
01:17:46All right.
01:17:47If you're listening to this later, of course, please help out the show.
01:17:51The show!
01:17:51And get on PILD.net.
01:17:56I don't know what PILD.net is.
01:17:58So I appreciate that.
01:17:59Have yourselves a glorious evening, everyone.
01:18:00What did we get to?
01:18:0132 minutes and 45 seconds out of 1.28.43.
01:18:06It would be fun to do one of these 1 on 20.
01:18:081 V 20.
01:18:09Well, maybe before I'm dead.
01:18:10We'll see if I get back out of the wilderness.
01:18:13Ah, you know what?
01:18:14I love exploring the wilderness.
01:18:15I just did that today on the Bruce Trail.
01:18:18Yes, pay for what you consume.
01:18:18If you are consuming my material and you find value in it,
01:18:21it's responsible to donate.
01:18:24There's no ads, right?
01:18:24There's no ads.
01:18:25So I've saved you years of your life with no ads.
01:18:28And it is the responsible thing to do, to donate.
01:18:31And I really, really appreciate that.
01:18:33Have yourselves an absolutely glorious night, my friend.
01:18:35We'll talk to you Friday night.
01:18:36Bye.
Be the first to comment