Join Bartholomew Hall as we sit down with Chatham wrestling coach Jon Owens to look back on decades of inspiring people to take up the sport and change their lives.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Invicta Sport on KMTV, the only show on your TV dedicated to Kent's
00:18sporting action. I'm Bartholomew Hall, here's what to expect on Monday the 2nd of June.
00:24Kicking with Carlos, Brazilian legend poses with fans for pictures at Blue Water. Grappling
00:30through life, wrestling coach John Owens looks back on three decades of inspiring youngsters
00:34and history of the Vars. As Whitstable's glory lives on, we revisit Kent's Wembley heroes of
00:41the past. But first, a footballing legend has made a very special appearance here in the county with
00:47Brazilian pro Roberto Carlos coming down to Blue Water's Ballers Dome for its one-year anniversary.
00:54The celebration saw the former left-back teaching the next generation a few tricks of his own
00:58on the pitch. Well, I was lucky enough to go down, meet him and get reaction from some of
01:03the fans who were there.
01:14It was the free kick that defied the laws of physics. Roberto Carlos' famous goal against
01:20France in the 1997 tournois has stuck with football fans for generations. Now on a visit
01:26to Blue Water's Ballers Dome, the former Brazilian international has been inspiring youngsters
01:31who've been taking on a challenge to recreate that famous kick. The pitch was even set up
01:37to recreate that moment with French keeper Fabien Barthez standing ready to be shocked
01:43once again. With some more successful than others, everyone hung around for a selfie and
01:50of course to get a few autographs signed.
01:52Well, I absolutely know Roberto Carlos before. I'll be honest, I haven't played football in
01:59about ten years, but we'll give it my best shot now. Right into the keeper's face.
02:06I'll be honest, I haven't played football in about ten years, but we'll give it my best shot
02:11now. Right into the keeper's face. So, Mr. Barthez might have claimed my goal today, but for
02:18those fans who lined up to meet Roberto, this is what it meant to them.
02:23Bro, it's crazy. I met him in 2017, but it wasn't really a meeting like that. It was more
02:30I was like, behind a barrier. So, to actually meet him, the legend that he is, yeah, it's
02:37a blessing I found out.
02:39Legacy, World Cup winner, Champions League winner, you name it, he's done it. So, it's
02:42good to see him, good to get something signed by him as well. He said he was the first Fede
02:45fan that was here today as well, so it's a bit of a bonus for me being the only one there.
02:49So, Roberto Carlos is my hero growing up, and the chance to meet him, like we said, it was
03:04much in a lifetime.
03:05It was nice meeting Roberto Carlos. I loved it.
03:08The event was to celebrate the first birthday of Blue Water's dedicated football entertainment
03:13dome, Ballers, which Roberto is an ambassador for, alongside other icons, Rio Ferdinand and
03:18Bobby Zamora. So, it seems, even with more than 600 career matches under his belt, for
03:24the likes of Inter Milan, Real Madrid and, of course, Brazil, it might just be Roberto
03:29Carlos' appearance here at Ballers that sticks with some of these fans a little bit longer.
03:34Bartholomew Hall for KMTV at Blue Water.
03:37It's time now to meet our next special guest. John Owens has been a wrestling coach in Chatham
03:42for more than three decades, from growing up in the West Country and joining the police,
03:46to wrestling on the world stage. I sat down with John to talk about his life as a wrestling
03:51coach.
03:52And John joins me in the studio now. John, thank you very much for being here. Welcome back
03:56onto Invicta Sport.
03:57Thank you for having me.
03:58We've spoken to you before, but today we want to talk a bit more about your story and
04:03the future of the sport of wrestling. So, I wanted to start off by talking about where
04:08it all started for you. I know you grew up in the countryside, if I'm not mistaken.
04:12Wrestling was more of a pastime than a sport that you followed. So, how did it all begin?
04:18I grew up in a town called Tor Point in South East Cornwall. Didn't have a lot of money.
04:23And like a lot of kids in those days, we wrestled. We grappled in the park, which a lot of kids did.
04:29And for some reason, I got lucky or became better than I thought I was and started to win.
04:36So, I wrestled, joined the police in the early 80s and started wrestling. And then I joined the London police
04:44in the late 80s, thinking I was a champion wrestler. And I went to a club in South London
04:51where I met real wrestlers. And I got introduced as, who wants the novice? And I remember saying,
05:00I'm no novice. I'm in my 20s. I've seen life. Then the coach said, he's a policeman. And they all stopped
05:09and looked at me. And I was given a lesson, a very painful lesson, that perhaps I wasn't as good as I thought I was.
05:19But I kept going back and going back and going back until I could beat them.
05:24And the decision to join the police as well, I mean, where did that come from?
05:27Because I suppose for a lot of youngsters, if you've come from maybe difficult backgrounds,
05:31where, as you say, there wasn't much money going around, the idea of following your dreams
05:35and becoming a big sports person is difficult. Yeah, so I worked in a place called Davenport Dockyard.
05:42And at the time, in the 80s, a lot of things were given out to private tender.
05:47And there was going to be large job losses. And I thought, I would jump before it happens.
05:54And I joined the police, first in the Ministry of Defence Police, and then I joined the Met.
06:00And I was lucky enough, very lucky enough, to have access to a lot of sporting facilities in which I used.
06:09And I used them to improve my wrestling.
06:11And tell me about, so you keep going back to this club, this club in London,
06:15they gave you a lesson when you first went there. What was it that that lesson taught you?
06:20It taught me a lot of lessons. A lot of people in that club knew a lot of policemen,
06:26but for different reasons. They were customers of the police, if I can say those words.
06:33And they taught me a lot that's good in everybody. It's bad in everybody, but it's good in everybody.
06:39And a lot of them were very helpful towards me. And I met different community groups.
06:45Because growing up in Cornwall, there's not many different community groups.
06:49But here are some Punjabi guys, some guys from India. Not Punjabi born in this country.
06:57I have no disrespect to those at all, but Punjabi people born in India said,
07:01I think you won't want to train with us because you're strong and you don't know how to use it.
07:07And they took me to Southall and they were so tough, very tough.
07:11And then some Iranians looked after me for many years in their country.
07:18It's a national sport. And they taught me so, so much.
07:22And in my 30s, I was traveling six days a week to different clubs, different communities.
07:29And I learned a lot that even though we're all different, deep down we're all the same.
07:34And I learned to respect those people. And the respect I got back was amazing.
07:41I suppose that's a huge part of all the work you do now.
07:44Community, bringing people together through the sport of wrestling.
07:47How is it that it brings people together so well?
07:50Sport always does. And wrestling is probably the most unique sport for that.
07:54I had a competition, not last Sunday, it was Sunday before.
07:57I had 44 people in it. Nine different countries, all united by one thing, wrestling.
08:03And you'll have people supporting you even though you're fighting a person from their country.
08:10And I thought, if we could do that in a sport, wouldn't it be a much better world if we could all do that?
08:16And realize that deep down we're all the same.
08:20Absolutely. So talk to me a bit more about your career.
08:23Where did it go from there in terms of your wrestling? What level did you get to?
08:27Right. I wrestled with a lot of police teams. And we had, in those days, wrestling, the sport and the police was massive.
08:36Not nowadays. And the British police finals was an international.
08:41Because you had people who wrestled for Ireland, people who wrestled for England, people who wrestled for Wales.
08:46So when you were fighting on that level, you were fighting internationals.
08:51And I took part in open competitions, the south of England, the Midlands.
08:58I went to three Highland Games. And it's taken me all over the world, meeting different countries, different people.
09:05And I just want to pass that on now to other people to experience what is quite an amazing life.
09:11Well, let's talk about that then, becoming a wrestling coach. How did that all start?
09:16I was still competing. I was in my mid-30s. So I'm in my 60s now.
09:22And British wrestling at the time, we're trying to get more coaches.
09:27So I took part in a coaching course in Manchester, run by a Ukrainian coach.
09:35And it was a whole weekend. And I went up with four people, all different nationalities.
09:41We shared the card together. And we had a great time.
09:44And it was something I wanted to give back. I knew I was going to come towards the end of my wrestling career.
09:51I didn't know it was going to drag on until another 14 years.
09:54And I wanted to give it back. Because I've had a great time. Why can't other people have a great time?
10:01And I've still got that idea today.
10:03So what was the scene sort of like? Or what has it sort of become here in Kent?
10:07Is there maybe an understanding of what the sport really is? Or have people still got to learn?
10:12Is there still a message to get out there?
10:14There's a massive message to give out. I'm actually trying to fire on several different directions.
10:20At the moment, we have a huge problem in young people who are perhaps losing their way.
10:28And I heard a great description of that, if I can share that.
10:33Life today is probably more complicated than ever before.
10:37We have things called social media, which bombards people with untruths.
10:43And a lot of the youth centers have closed down for various reasons.
10:48And describe some of the young people today.
10:50They say it's like a bottle of Coke, screwed on.
10:53And they're shaking around, they're shaking around.
10:56They're trying to fit in, but they're shaking around and shaking around.
10:59And once that top comes off, they explode. And they explode in the wrong way.
11:05Because there's no outlet. Nothing to give them confidence.
11:09And one thing about wrestling, and that's what I like about it,
11:14it's a sport which doesn't have that many injuries, unlike other fighting arts.
11:18And it teaches you to get up, take on a challenge, and express yourself in a way without exploding.
11:26No doubt, it's a big, big topic to take on.
11:28And I want to talk all about what the future of wrestling could be,
11:30and how the sport could help so many different people.
11:33We're going to go to a break now, but when we come back we'll talk all about that,
11:35plus the Olympics and what could happen with Team GB in the future.
11:38Time for a break now, don't forget you can keep up to date with all the latest football news by reading Kent Online.
11:44You can also have your weekly digest of non-league and Gillingham news from around the county sent directly to your email inbox.
11:51That's it for now, we'll be back in just a few moments.
11:53Hello and welcome back to Invicta Sport right here on KMTV.
12:09Today we've been speaking with Chatham wrestling coach John Owens about his journey in wrestling,
12:14and about the future of the sport, and the impact it can have on communities not only here in Kent but across the world.
12:20Here's part two of our chat with him.
12:22Let's talk a bit more about the work that you're doing at the moment.
12:26You mentioned before the break about in Lewisham you've got a project going on with knife crime at the moment.
12:30It's a huge topic to try and tackle, a huge issue.
12:34How can wrestling help young people turn away from a life of crime?
12:39It's not just knife crime. We have a huge problem with young people with mental health issues.
12:45Not just young people, but we'll talk about young people for a second.
12:49Self-confidence issues.
12:51And I'm a strong believer that wrestling can teach people confidence.
12:55You learn to take a knock, go to the floor and get up.
12:59And the important thing, wrestling comes from an old English word, wrestling or something, which meant to grapple.
13:07Life is a grapple sometimes, and sometimes we feel, why me? I can't go on.
13:13I want to teach you to get up.
13:15And if you get used to getting up, it becomes easier. It becomes less painful.
13:20And wrestling will teach young people that sometimes things don't go your way.
13:25Some parents might look at videos of wrestling or have this preconceived understanding of wrestling.
13:30Maybe they've seen WWE, which is a completely different sport, a completely different thing.
13:36And they might think, well, that's violence. That's something that I don't want my children even looking towards.
13:41But that's maybe not the way that you would look at it.
13:43No. Wrestling is the first sport other than running in the Olympic Games.
13:50And it's over 15,000 years old.
13:53And I think the first ever writing Samartan, which is one of the first cultures before Egypt, was about a wrestler.
14:00And we have ancient wrestling in Greece. We have ancient wrestling in Rome, religious regions.
14:07But in the mid-1800s, France, trying to promote strong men in circuses, had the theatre, which we call professional wrestling.
14:16And it grew up in different parts of the world as well.
14:18That is a sideshow. Entertaining, yes, but that's a sideshow where people get thrown around and mysteriously get up again.
14:28I'm trying to teach a sport. A sport about discipline, about fun.
14:34And, of course, how to do it safely as well in a way that promotes sportmanship.
14:40Yes. We've got to do it safely. Any bullying. If I find out there's a bully in the club, then they're gone.
14:45And I've got a story. I don't know if I share it.
14:49Many, many years ago, I was teaching in a club in Bromley.
14:54And as a young person, a 14-year-old person, he was so painfully shy. So painfully shy.
15:01I think it took four weeks for his mum to persuade him to go on the mat.
15:05He would just turn up and go, maybe next week. And eventually got on the mat and he was very good.
15:12By 16, he was British Junior Champion. And then he left the area. People move on.
15:19Eleven years later, he turned up at the club, holding a little baby.
15:23I said, God, you've changed. You've grown. And I was still there telling the same bad jokes.
15:29And it was mainly a young person's club. And they had a couple of old people on the mat.
15:33And then some doorman type people came in from a little part of London.
15:39And I said, what do you guys want? Oh, we've come to wrestle.
15:44And they had the wrong attitude. And I said, well, we've only got kids here and one older gentleman.
15:50We'll wrestle him. And they wrestled him and they hurt him.
15:54And I thought, that's a bit nasty. I think I might have to have a word of you.
15:57And this young man said, John. And he put on that shy voice he first had.
16:02Do you mind if I wrestle them? I said, help yourself.
16:06Yeah. And he wrestled them beautifully. And afterwards he said, thanks, John.
16:12And I never saw him again. Fantastic.
16:15So it's it's that it's not just confidence that, you know, doing and doing the sport properly brings.
16:20It's it's that skill as well. And and yes, with it, the confidence that he's able to overcome that and come back to you.
16:26And you can achieve anything if you but try. It's very easy, especially nowadays where, again, I mentioned social media,
16:33where you get bombarded with you're going to fail in a false world and that you're going to fail.
16:38If you tell enough people that you're not good enough, like bombarding them with pictures and things, people start to believe that.
16:45But to give you the confidence that you can get up and who knows, you could even win.
16:51So we've spoken a bit about the positives of wrestling now.
16:56How do we move forward and grow the sport here in the UK?
17:00Because we were talking a lot about the Olympics off camera and how Team GB just doesn't have a team with with UK Brits representing the country at the Olympics.
17:10Well, why is that and how can that change?
17:12Right. British wrestling made a decision, a very wrong decision, in my opinion, and others in 2000.
17:20We knew that the Olympic Games were going to be London or Paris and Sport England, who support sport in a phenomenal way,
17:27were going to give us a large sum of money to promote wrestling.
17:29And I suggest to put it in schools. You've got 12 years.
17:32Give a coach £100 a day to do three schools. Give 10 coaches, that's 30 schools a day.
17:37150 schools a week. The person in charge had a different idea and spent the money bringing over the second team of another country.
17:45Three weren't good enough. One got taught to take drugs in a nightclub and got banned.
17:52And I left one wrestler left who had one fight, one defeat.
17:56And I wasn't happy.
17:59And so the last 10 years I've been going around Kent promoting wrestling clubs outside of British wrestling.
18:05I have to take my hat off and I would like to give an apology. The guy running it is a guy called Craig Anthony.
18:13And I owe him a big apology. I've been very vocal that British wrestling haven't done the right things.
18:19And we've got Trevor, Andreas and a few other people. They've pumped it into grassroots wrestling.
18:25We now have 78 wrestling clubs in the country. We have 25 wrestling clubs in the south.
18:31And we've never had that. Now, it's not enough for the Olympics. It's far too early.
18:37But in 12 years time, in 16 years time, not only am I confident we will be in the Olympics, we might even get a medal.
18:46It's a long haul.
18:47And what would that mean to you personally, being someone who spent decades coaching, spent decades in the sport yourself,
18:53wanting to see Team GB having a medal round their neck one day?
18:58It would mean everything. Now, I go around now and there's a picture behind me.
19:03I was in Canterbury last night at the wrestling club. The gentleman on his knee next to me, a phenomenal coach.
19:11Val, he goes around to play coaching as well. And if I can get these coaches together to coach and bring forward our young,
19:22not everyone's going to make the Olympics. But they can have a lot of fun on the process, improve their lives,
19:29improve their confidence, improve their strength, improve a lot of things.
19:33I suppose maybe one of the problems we have in this country, I know that when I was going to school,
19:38the kind of path for sport, it was always just kind of football. We thought football was the thing.
19:42Obviously, it's the most popular sport in the country. But does that kind of, you know,
19:47does that limit the sort of possibilities of what sport could mean for young people?
19:51There's a few more problems than that. Everything nowadays is measured in what's it worth.
19:58We worry about what it's worth, not its value. We count things in pounds, shillings and pence,
20:04but not in what is good for people. The number of youth clubs have gone down.
20:09The number of people who give up their time to help others has gone down.
20:13And there's always a thing, lack of funding. And we do concentrate on the more popular ones.
20:20And if we could spend a little time getting into schools, and this is the next big project,
20:27it doesn't cost a lot of money. Most schools have got gym mats. Most schools have got PE teachers.
20:32We can qualify them, teach them wrestling. We can get wrestling into schools.
20:37And just think what it could do to a young person's confidence, a young person's anxiety,
20:43a young person who may have anger issues. Just think what it can do just by spending a little bit of time.
20:49And I tell people, if you give a little bit of your today, you can certainly change there tomorrow.
20:55Absolutely. Well, before we finish up, John, it's a question we ask all of our guests here on Invictus Sport.
21:01If you could speak with your younger self now, what would be your message to them?
21:05Carry on. Make mistakes. It's better to make a mistake or regret not doing it.
21:12Is that something you share with some of the youngsters that you help train now, about mistakes being so important to grow?
21:20Yes. Mistakes are important. Have a go. Have a go. You'd be surprised.
21:27There was something you told me a long, long time ago. Aim for the stars. You won't make it.
21:33Or you may not make it. But you'll get higher than the mountaintops. And those who aim for the mountaintops won't make it.
21:39Well, John, some brilliant advice. Thank you very much for joining us Invictus Sport today.
21:42Thank you for your time.
21:43It's been a pleasure speaking with you. And I wish you the very best for the future with all the projects that you've got.
21:48Thank you so much. Brilliant. Thank you.
21:50Really good chat there with John. Next up, we're taking a look at one of the more notable moments in Kent's sporting history.
21:57In 2000, Deal Town fought off stiff competition from Chatternham Town in the final of the FA Vars.
22:03And of course, with Whitstable's victory in the same competition, still very recent news, we decided to remember the last time that Kent triumphed at Wembley.
22:11A few weeks ago, we saw Whitstable Town lift the FA Vars, a trophy for teams on the fifth and sixth steps of the National League system.
22:20It was truly a historic day for the Oyster men.
22:23But whilst they may be the latest team from Kent to lift the FA Vars, the honour of being the first team from Kent to win the competition goes to Deal Town, who took home the trophy in 2000.
22:34An 87th minute volley from Rowley Graham saw the Hoops snag victory away from Chippenham Town after a tough, long-fought match in which neither team found it easy to break down the other's defences.
22:47Heading this side was the certified legend of Kent football.
22:51Tommy Sampson had been a success just down the road with Herne Bay, winning them back-to-back titles before issues with their sponsors made him a free agent before the 1998 season began.
23:02Tommy then made the move to Deal and brought a number of his Herne Bay squad with him, an investment in their boss that would pay dividends two years later.
23:11Unfortunately, Deal will be unable to try and clinch the Vars back from the Oyster men next season, although it isn't all bad news.
23:18In fact, Deal's 2023 promotion two and subsequent seventh place finish in step four of the National League system means that the Hoops are actually in too high of a league to compete in the competition.
23:31Still, Kent football fans will never forget that historic day at Wembley.
23:35That's it from us on today's episode of Invicta Sport.
23:38Don't forget, there's plenty more sports news, interviews and features from across the county available on our website, kmtv.co.uk.
23:44But for now, I'll see you soon. Bye-bye.
23:46I'll see you soon. Bye-bye.