- 6 months ago
Vera Barnes - better known as "Madame Veda Bronski", a spiritualist and professed clairvoyant - is charged with obtaining money by deception from widow Elizabeth Penn.
Barbara Shelley, star of many a Hammer Horror film, stars as the defendant. Joan Hickson, the definitive Miss Marple, appears as complainant Elizabeth Penn. Both Tim Preece (Professor Loomis) and Christopher Benjamin (prosecuting counsel) appeared in Doctor Who - Planet of the Daleks and Talons of Weng-Chiang respectively.
Viewers may recognise Christopher Hancock (Phillip Weems) as Charlie Cotton in EastEnders. Ray Mort (John Winder) was also known for his appearances in "Oh No, It's Selwyn Froggitt" as well as several productions of "Play for Today".
Barbara Shelley, star of many a Hammer Horror film, stars as the defendant. Joan Hickson, the definitive Miss Marple, appears as complainant Elizabeth Penn. Both Tim Preece (Professor Loomis) and Christopher Benjamin (prosecuting counsel) appeared in Doctor Who - Planet of the Daleks and Talons of Weng-Chiang respectively.
Viewers may recognise Christopher Hancock (Phillip Weems) as Charlie Cotton in EastEnders. Ray Mort (John Winder) was also known for his appearances in "Oh No, It's Selwyn Froggitt" as well as several productions of "Play for Today".
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TVTranscript
00:00:00the case you're about to see is fictitious, but the procedure is authentic. The characters are
00:00:16played by actors, but the jury is selected from members of the general public. Today in the Crown
00:00:21Court, Mrs. Vera Barnes, also known as Madame Vida Bromsky, is charged with dishonestly obtaining
00:00:26£17,500 by deception.
00:00:29...by almighty God, the evidence I give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
00:00:36You are Detective Sergeant Cartrell of Fulchester CID?
00:00:39Yes, sir.
00:00:40On October 14th last year at Fulchester CID headquarters, did a Mr. Harold Penn make a complaint to you?
00:00:47That's right, yes.
00:00:48And as a result of that, what action did you take?
00:00:51I made various inquiries, and on the 15th of October I went to number 17 Spruce Road,
00:00:57Fulchester, and spoke to the occupant, Mrs. Barnes.
00:01:00Mrs. Barnes the accused?
00:01:01Yes, sir.
00:01:02And what did you say to her?
00:01:04May I look at my notebook, my lord? I made it up the same day.
00:01:06I've no objection, my lord.
00:01:08You will.
00:01:09I said to her, it's about this money you got from Mrs. Penn.
00:01:14She replied, it's only her son who's kicking up about that, it's nothing to do with him.
00:01:19Yes, whom did you understand her to mean by her son?
00:01:22No, Mr. Penn.
00:01:23Harold Penn, son of Mrs. Elizabeth Penn.
00:01:26Yes, go on.
00:01:27She then said, if the silly old bat wants to give me her money, that's her business.
00:01:32I've done nothing illegal.
00:01:34And whom did you understand Mrs. Barnes to mean?
00:01:37My client has instructed me to say that she wishes to be referred to by her professional name of Madame Bronski,
00:01:43if you have no objection, my lord.
00:01:44If she's commonly known by that name, I have no objection, Mr. Percival.
00:01:48No objection, my lord.
00:01:50Whom did you understand Madame Bronski to mean by the epithet silly old bat?
00:01:56She was referring to Mrs. Penn.
00:01:58If the silly old bat wants to give me her money, it's her business.
00:02:03Go on.
00:02:04I asked her to accompany me to the police headquarters, which she did.
00:02:08I then put to her the facts of the case as I understood them.
00:02:12She made no reply.
00:02:13I then asked her to make a written statement.
00:02:16This she refused to do, although she did confirm that on September 24th, she received from Mrs. Elizabeth Penn a cheque for £17,500.
00:02:26In numbers of the jury, you'll appreciate that Mrs. Madame Bronski was quite within her rights to refuse to make a statement.
00:02:34She was not obliged to say anything at that stage, and you're not to take her silence as implying guilt.
00:02:39Thank you, my lord. I have no more questions.
00:02:41This case then arose from a complaint made by Mr. Harold Penn, the son of Mrs. Elizabeth Penn, who gave the money to my client. Is that right?
00:02:50That was the first we knew of it, yes.
00:02:52And that complaint was made when, exactly?
00:02:54October the 14th.
00:02:56Oh, over three weeks after the money was paid.
00:02:59But didn't Mr. Penn originally come to you and complain within days of the money being paid to Madame Bronski?
00:03:04Well, yes, but he didn't make a formal complaint on that occasion.
00:03:07Why not?
00:03:08Well, I advised him to consult a solicitor in the first instance.
00:03:12Yes, but isn't it the duty of the police to investigate any allegation that a crime has taken place?
00:03:17With respect, ma'am, we did investigate.
00:03:19But not until Mr. Penn's second visit?
00:03:21That's right.
00:03:22Well, so let me ask you again, Sergeant, why did you not follow up Mr. Penn's complaint?
00:03:27Because at that stage we didn't have any firm evidence against Madame Bronski.
00:03:32So what made the difference on the second occasion?
00:03:34Well, we had a statement from a private inquiry agent which tended to confirm Mr. Penn's complaint.
00:03:39Yes, if Mr. Penn had not made it his business to dig up the dirt against my client, is it true to say that you would not have proceeded in this case?
00:03:47Object, my lord. The question is both offensive and hypothetical.
00:03:50I think you've made your point, Miss Gibson.
00:03:53Yes, I have only one more question, my lord.
00:03:55Now, if Madame Bronski did indeed use the phrase, silly old bat, to describe Mrs. Penn, did she use it in tones of contempt or of affection?
00:04:05I didn't make a note at the time of her tone of voice, ma'am, but as far as I remember, she was angry and emotional when she said it.
00:04:12Yes, you see, I want to suggest to you that Mrs. Penn and my client were very close friends, and that if my client did indeed use this phrase, she used it in the way that you might call one of your colleagues silly old twit, for example, without meaning any harm.
00:04:27Do you see my point, Sergeant?
00:04:29I don't call my colleagues silly old twits, ma'am.
00:04:32No, no, I don't suppose you do. Thank you, my lord, I have no more questions.
00:04:40Are you Harold Penn and do you live at 51 Beach Road, Fullchester?
00:04:44Yes.
00:04:45Mr. Penn, will you tell us the sequence of events that led you to go to the police?
00:04:50Well, I'd been worried about Mum's state of mind ever since my father died, which was September last year.
00:04:57She missed him a great deal.
00:04:59I suppose with being alone in the house, she had a tendency to brood.
00:05:03You know, I was concerned about her.
00:05:06Anyway, April or May it'd be, she started going to this Madame Bronski, fortune-telling and so forth.
00:05:14I said to her at the time she shouldn't be taking it all so seriously.
00:05:17But she did get very involved with all the mumbo-jumbo.
00:05:20Yes, yes, of course.
00:05:21Well, can we move on to, let's see, September the 25th.
00:05:26Did you, on the morning of that day, receive a telephone call from your bank manager, Mr. Philip Weems?
00:05:32That's right.
00:05:33I was amazed when he told me what Mum had done.
00:05:35Yes, yes, well, we'll hear about that later from Mr. Weems himself.
00:05:38But after you received that telephone call, what did you do?
00:05:42I went straight round to my mother's house and asked her about it.
00:05:45Actually, we had a bit of a row.
00:05:47Yes, well, you don't need to tell us what you said to her.
00:05:50After you'd spoken to her, then what did you do?
00:05:53Well, as soon as I got the truth out of her, I went straight to the police.
00:05:56Yes, Detective Sergeant Cottrell has told us that he advised you to consult a solicitor.
00:06:01Is that right?
00:06:02Yes, I arranged to see Mr. Saltman.
00:06:04He's always been very good in the past, and he put us onto this Mr. Winder.
00:06:08Yes, Mr. Winder is an inquiry agent, my lord. He will be called.
00:06:11And, erm, tell me, what were your instructions to Mr. Winder when you engaged his services?
00:06:18I said I wanted to recover my mum's money, and was there anything he could do to help, really?
00:06:24Thank you, Mr. Penn.
00:06:26Mr. Penn, why were you so cross when your mother had given this money to Madam Bronski?
00:06:31Well, that money was the best part of what my father left her when he died.
00:06:36He worked damn hard. Oh, excuse me.
00:06:38But he did. He worked hard all his life.
00:06:40He was a self-employed builder, and when he died, he left her this money.
00:06:43And she just turned round and gave it away.
00:06:46Mr. Penn, you are, I believe, your mother's only child.
00:06:49That's right.
00:06:50And when she dies, the bulk of the estate will pass to you.
00:06:53Oh, no, wait a minute.
00:06:54If you're making out that I'm worried about that, I resent it.
00:06:57I really do.
00:06:58The only reason I'm bothered about that money is because it belongs by rights to my mum.
00:07:02And she was conned out of it.
00:07:04Hmm.
00:07:05Is your mother a generous person?
00:07:07Well, too generous for her own good.
00:07:09That's obvious.
00:07:10And she's always been open-handed.
00:07:12She gave a cleaning lady over £100 to pay off her rent arrears.
00:07:16That was supposed to be a loan, but she's not seen a penny of it back.
00:07:18Hmm.
00:07:19So she's a generous person.
00:07:20Is she also an impulsive person?
00:07:22Well, not what I'd call impulsive.
00:07:24Not really.
00:07:25She's more of a worrier, my mum.
00:07:27She agitates about things.
00:07:29She needs someone to tell her what's what.
00:07:31I mean, when my father was alive, she relied on him to make all the decisions.
00:07:35And so, when he died, she had to find someone else to tell her what to do.
00:07:38And, unfortunately, she picked on this charlatan.
00:07:41But Madame Bronsley became her friend and confidant, closer even than members of her own family.
00:07:46That's right, sinister.
00:07:47It was very sinister.
00:07:48Yes, so you allege, Mr. Pen.
00:07:50But your mother was left a comparatively wealthy woman, wasn't she?
00:07:53And she had a choice.
00:07:55I mean, she could have spent the money on herself.
00:07:57But that wouldn't really have been in character, would it?
00:07:59I mean, you've told us what a generous and unselfish person she was.
00:08:03Or she could have allowed it to pass on her death to you and your wife, who don't particularly need it.
00:08:09I mean, you already have a very nice home and a good job.
00:08:12Or she could give it to someone who clearly meant more to her even than surviving members of her own family.
00:08:20Namely, my client, Madame Bronsley.
00:08:22Now, that is what happened, is it not?
00:08:24No.
00:08:25You're making it sound like a considered sensible decision.
00:08:28It wasn't at all.
00:08:29She was conned out of it.
00:08:30Yes, when you saw your mother after she wrote that cheque, did she seem to you to be in her right mind?
00:08:36How do you mean?
00:08:37Well, was she sane, Mr. Penn?
00:08:39Well, of course she was.
00:08:40And did she regret signing the cheque?
00:08:43Well, not at that time, no.
00:08:45No, nevertheless, you went straight to the police.
00:08:47And when they couldn't or wouldn't help you, you sought out the services of a private detective.
00:08:51Now, what did you expect him to do for you?
00:08:54Well, as I said, I left it up to him.
00:08:57Thank you, Mr. Penn.
00:08:59Mr. Weems, how long has your bank handled the financial affairs of the Penn family?
00:09:10I'm sorry, sir.
00:09:11I do not possess that information.
00:09:12Oh, let me put it another way.
00:09:14How long have you personally been involved with their financial affairs?
00:09:17Before I answer that, can I say that it is not the same question you just put to me.
00:09:21It is, in fact, a completely different question.
00:09:23Yes, I know that.
00:09:24But by saying, if I'm quoting you correctly, let me put it another way,
00:09:28you were implying that it was substantially the same question, which it is not.
00:09:31Yes, I realise that, Mr. Weems.
00:09:33Very well.
00:09:34I personally have handled the affairs of the Penn family for eight years, three months and eleven days.
00:09:41Were you an executor of the late Mr. Penn's estate?
00:09:44Do you refer to the late Mr. Arthur Penn of Grantly Road, Fulchester?
00:09:48Yes.
00:09:49I was.
00:09:50And how much money did he leave to his widow?
00:09:52£20,328.60 after tax.
00:09:56You are very precise.
00:09:59Do you also handle a bank account in the name of Mrs. Vera Barnes?
00:10:03I handle two accounts in that name, a current account and a deposit account.
00:10:08Now then, can I ask you about last September the 25th?
00:10:12On that morning, did you have presented to you a cheque drawn on Mrs. Penn's account?
00:10:17The cheque to which you refer was presented to a member of my staff, who asked me whether it would be in order to transfer the amount.
00:10:24Presented by whom?
00:10:25By Mrs. Barnes.
00:10:27May the witness be shown Exhibit 1.
00:10:29Is that the cheque?
00:10:34The amount, date, signature, account number and cheque number are the same.
00:10:40So, it's the same cheque?
00:10:42Possibly.
00:10:43When this cheque was shown to you, what did you do?
00:10:46I first confirmed the status of Mrs. Penn's deposit account.
00:10:50The funds were sufficient to cover the cheque, but I was concerned that it would leave less than £500 in the account, so I telephoned Mrs. Penn.
00:10:58Yes, well don't tell us what you said.
00:11:00I wasn't going to.
00:11:01It was a confidential discussion.
00:11:03Fair enough.
00:11:05Did you talk to anyone else about the matter?
00:11:07Yes, I was sufficiently concerned to ring Mr. Harold Penn and discuss it with him.
00:11:11But the telephone conversations you mentioned were at your initiative.
00:11:15Did Mrs. Penn actually seek your advice at any stage?
00:11:18Indeed she did not.
00:11:20And such advice as I gave her, she chose to ignore.
00:11:22Was it unusual for Mrs. Penn to make an important decision about money without asking your advice?
00:11:27Most unusual.
00:11:29She had been accustomed to ask me about the most trivial matters.
00:11:32I remember one occasion she wanted to know what sort of lawnmower she should buy.
00:11:36I recommended an electric rotary at £43.90.
00:11:40Another time, she consulted me about her breakfasts.
00:11:44Her breakfasts?
00:11:45She wanted to know, to ask me as her bank manager, whether I thought it extravagant to have bacon for breakfast every morning.
00:11:51I can modestly claim to have converted her to whole wheat toast.
00:11:55So you see, as a rule, she took my advice very seriously, but not on this occasion.
00:12:01Does Mrs. Penn have any important debts?
00:12:05To the best of my knowledge and ability, ma'am, she doesn't owe a single penny and never has.
00:12:10Nor indeed did her late husband.
00:12:12He was punctilious about such matters.
00:12:15I often remarked on his punctiliousness.
00:12:18Is there a certain word?
00:12:20There is, my lord. I use it often to my staff.
00:12:23Well, we live and learn.
00:12:28Since the disputed gift to my client, has Mrs. Penn managed to live without her income, as far as you know?
00:12:35I can't give you detailed figures, but the amount of money deposited in the bank has remained approximately constant.
00:12:42So her generosity to Madame Bronski has not bankrupted the lady.
00:12:45That is not to say that it was financially advisable, but no.
00:12:49I take it, then, that you advised Mrs. Penn against making this gift?
00:12:53I queried its advisability.
00:12:55But she chose not to take your advice?
00:12:58Evidently.
00:12:59Is Mr. Harold Penn also a client of your bank?
00:13:02Oh, yes.
00:13:03And is that why you were so eager to oppose this gift?
00:13:06Because he was expecting to inherit the money, and as his bank manager, you were looking after his interests?
00:13:11No, that wasn't it.
00:13:13It's a travesty of my motives, I assure you.
00:13:15My concern was that Mrs. Penn should not hastily dispose of the bulk of her assets on a whim.
00:13:21Why do you describe it as a whim?
00:13:23I thought it an ill-considered and impulsive decision.
00:13:26I believe she already half-regretted it when I spoke to her.
00:13:29Was she sane, Mr. Weems?
00:13:30I'm not a doctor.
00:13:32Did she seem to you to be sane?
00:13:34Of course.
00:13:35And was she determined, in spite of your advice, that the money should be paid?
00:13:39I'm afraid so.
00:13:42Silence in court.
00:13:45Are you Elizabeth Jane Penn, and do you live at 9 Grantley Road, Fullchester?
00:13:51Yes.
00:13:52Do you know a woman called Vera Barnes, also known as Veda Bronsky?
00:13:56Madam Veda, yes.
00:13:58Is she present in court?
00:14:00Yes.
00:14:01Would you point her out to us?
00:14:03She's over there.
00:14:04Point to her, please.
00:14:06Are you afraid of her?
00:14:08No, of course not.
00:14:09I'm only nervous about giving evidence.
00:14:11You'll find it's quite painless.
00:14:14How did you first meet Madam Bronsky?
00:14:17Well, it was an advertisement, a card in a newsagent's window.
00:14:21It just said spiritual counsellor and a telephone number, so I made a note of it.
00:14:26And I telephoned her, and she said I should go round and see her.
00:14:28Yes.
00:14:29Why did you answer this particular advertisement?
00:14:31Were you in need of spiritual counselling?
00:14:33Well, I didn't know at the time, but I realised after, it was a matter of vibrations.
00:14:38The card projected an aura, if you understand.
00:14:41Well, I don't understand written no matter.
00:14:43This was only months after your husband died, wasn't it?
00:14:47What was your general mood during that period?
00:14:50Well, I was very unhappy.
00:14:52Well, it was only natural, but of course mistaken.
00:14:54Why mistaken?
00:14:55Well, because that isn't what Arthur wanted.
00:14:57He wanted me to cheer up and be optimistic about the future, but I didn't realise that at the time.
00:15:01I see.
00:15:02Tell us about your first meeting with Madam Bronsky.
00:15:05Well, it wasn't like anything I expected.
00:15:07I mean, I thought she'd be some sort of a gypsy, you know, with a spotted scarf on her head and earrings and a crystal.
00:15:12And I was quite surprised to find she was a very ordinary looking woman with a pleasant house, nice furniture,
00:15:19and really someone you wouldn't look at twice, except for her eyes.
00:15:23Have you noticed her eyes?
00:15:25No, it's strange.
00:15:26When she looks at you, you feel sort of peaceful, but tingly.
00:15:29It's hard to describe.
00:15:30Well, anyway, I went to her house, sat down, had a cup of tea,
00:15:34and then she told me that she charged five pounds an hour, which I thought was quite reasonable.
00:15:38So I gave her the money.
00:15:40You paid her before the session began?
00:15:42Well, yes. Why ever not?
00:15:44Well, it's very trusting of you.
00:15:46Go on.
00:15:47Well, we chatted for a bit and then she began to tell me things about myself I found quite amazing.
00:15:51What sort of things?
00:15:52Well, private things, personal matters.
00:15:54Yes, well, we don't want to pry, Mrs. Penn, but did she tell you anything which seemed to offer conclusive proof of second sight or mind reading?
00:16:01Oh, many things. Many, many things. Oh, yes.
00:16:05Oh, she seemed to understand my personality completely as though we were old friends.
00:16:11Yes, and she told me that I'd been very ill as a girl with glandular fever, that sort of thing.
00:16:15Well, very convincing, no doubt.
00:16:18What else took place during that visit?
00:16:20Well, she found Arthur for me.
00:16:22Arthur?
00:16:23My late husband.
00:16:25Oh, she found, but in what sense did she find Arthur?
00:16:30Well, she went into a trance and when she woke up, she said he was definitely in the second sphere.
00:16:34The second sphere?
00:16:35Yes, you see, when a person dies, they pass through these various spheres.
00:16:39If they're a ghost, then they haunt the place, you see.
00:16:43If they're earthbound, the place that they knew in life.
00:16:46But if they move onwards, then they pass through these various spheres.
00:16:49And she told me that Arthur had got to the second one.
00:16:52The second one?
00:16:53Hmm.
00:16:54Was this what Madame Bronski told you?
00:16:57Yes.
00:16:58And she found it for me by astral projection.
00:17:02Astral projection?
00:17:03Yes.
00:17:04In the trance, you see, she left her body and she searched through the lower spheres for me.
00:17:08Well, presumably, with so many people dying every day, these spheres are rather overpopulated.
00:17:14Wasn't it rather a coincidence that she should have come across your husband?
00:17:17Especially as she didn't know him by sight.
00:17:19Oh.
00:17:20Oh, it's not like wandering through town hoping you're going to bump into somebody.
00:17:24Oh, no.
00:17:25No, she was guided by the aura, by the vibrations.
00:17:28Ah, yes, of course, the vibrations.
00:17:31And you believed all this.
00:17:33It didn't seem to you that it was a load of nonsense.
00:17:36Are you a Christian, may I ask?
00:17:39Well, I don't see what that's got to do with it, but yes.
00:17:42Do you believe in the resurrection and the life everlasting?
00:17:45Well, yes.
00:17:46Well, why do you think it's nonsense, then, when we've given proof of these things?
00:17:50Well, what proof did Madame Bronski give you that she'd spoken to her husband in the
00:17:54second sphere?
00:17:55Well, she didn't speak to him.
00:17:57Not that session.
00:17:58Well, he wasn't ready.
00:17:59Well, it's a great shock to a spirit, you know, being suddenly spoken to by somebody's
00:18:04astral projection when they're not expecting it.
00:18:06Well, no.
00:18:07That's why you have an astral guide, a sort of go-between.
00:18:09Well, you seem to know a lot about spiritualism.
00:18:12Is this information that you've had from Madame Bronski, or did you study the subject beforehand?
00:18:17Well, I've studied it since I've been at Madame Bronski.
00:18:19Before then, of course, I was just an ordinary church of England, but there's a lot of spiritualism
00:18:23in that as well, you know.
00:18:24Yes, well, I don't want to debate theology with you.
00:18:28Can we move on, Mrs. Penn, to the night of the 24th?
00:18:31Did you, on that night, give Madame Bronski a cheque for seventeen and a half thousand pounds?
00:18:37Yes, I did, unfortunately.
00:18:39Why did you give her that money?
00:18:40Did she ask for it?
00:18:42No, she agreed to take it.
00:18:43I mean, she offered to accept it.
00:18:45Well, perhaps you'd better tell us from the beginning what happened that night.
00:18:49Well, you see, I wanted to ask the Tarot a question.
00:18:52I wanted to be able to develop psychic power.
00:18:56Why couldn't I see through the third hour?
00:18:58Well, I thought if I could achieve that, then I could see Arthur again and even talk to him,
00:19:03and that's what I wanted to do more than anything else, you see.
00:19:06Well, we consulted the cards, and the meaning was quite clear.
00:19:09I was encumbered by my possessions, you see, by my material things.
00:19:13I was tied to the material plane by my wealth and my attachment to my home and my surroundings,
00:19:19and that's what the answer was, you see.
00:19:22I see.
00:19:23Was this what the card said, or what Madame Bronski told you the card said?
00:19:27Oh, well, both.
00:19:28Well, I could see the situation, because she kept turning up these cards with coins on them.
00:19:32You know the Tarot cards have coins on them, don't you?
00:19:34Well, she kept turning up these cards and tat-tatting and shaking her head,
00:19:38and finally, well, she explained what it meant.
00:19:41I see.
00:19:42Well, what happened next?
00:19:43Well, I was in a dilemma, you see, because I realized that my money was the root of the problem,
00:19:48and also that Arthur had given me this money so that I should be happy and comfortable in my old age and not worry,
00:19:54so I explained this to Madame, and we decided we'd ask Arthur what to do.
00:19:59Yes.
00:20:00Did you suggest consulting your husband's spirit, or did she?
00:20:03Well, both.
00:20:04I think we both thought it might be a good idea.
00:20:07Yes.
00:20:08How did you go about it?
00:20:09Well, we used a thing called a planchette.
00:20:11May the witness be shown exhibit two?
00:20:15Is this the equipment that was used?
00:20:17Yes, that's right.
00:20:18You put your fingers on the rim, you see, and the spirit works through and moves it about, and it writes its messages.
00:20:24I see.
00:20:25So having got out this little device, what did Madame Bronski do with it?
00:20:29How did she proceed?
00:20:30Well, she went into a trance.
00:20:31She closed her eyes, and she muttered to herself, reciting her mantra.
00:20:35That's a special incantation.
00:20:37We all have our own mantras, but, well, it's supposed to be secret.
00:20:41Well, she muttered for a bit, and then she suddenly sat up straight, opened her eyes, and stared into the distance.
00:20:48And then the planchette began to move.
00:20:51Did she say anything?
00:20:53No, she just sat there very quietly, and the pencil started to make sort of meaningless squiggles.
00:20:59And then I said, are you there, Arthur?
00:21:03And then the pencil gave a twitch and wrote his initials, AP.
00:21:07So I knew he was there and could hear me, so I started talking to him, you know, face to face.
00:21:11I said, now look here, Arthur.
00:21:13I want to develop the psychic powers I know I have.
00:21:16I said, you've all got psychic powers.
00:21:18You had them too in life, but you didn't realize it.
00:21:21I expect you realize it now, I said.
00:21:23And that's probably why you're only in the second sphere.
00:21:25But I said, I want to develop mine, but I've been covered by all that money you left me, I said.
00:21:30So what shall I do with it?
00:21:33And the pencil wrote and said, use it for good.
00:21:37So I said, well, what good?
00:21:39I said, do I give it to charity, or do I send it off to famine relief, or what?
00:21:44And the answer was, you will know.
00:21:48And then he drew a picture of a pyramid with an eye above it, a human eye, like a mystical sign.
00:21:54And, well, it was a very firm drawing, a very firm drawing indeed.
00:21:58It almost tore the paper it was written on.
00:22:00And then, well, then the pencil made some more meaningless squiggles and then stopped.
00:22:05And then soon after that, Madam woke up.
00:22:08So which of you suggested that the money be entrusted to Madam Bronski?
00:22:12Well, she did, I suppose.
00:22:14Yes.
00:22:15Did Madam Bronski discuss with you what she would do with this money?
00:22:19Oh, yes, yes.
00:22:20She said she wanted to buy a big house and open an institute.
00:22:23And then get serious students of the occult and people who had psychic powers to stay with her and study with her, you see.
00:22:31And I thought this was such a wonderful idea.
00:22:33She said it was her dream that I wrote her a cheque at once.
00:22:37Was this a gift, a loan, investment, or what?
00:22:40Oh, no, it was a gift. I didn't want it back.
00:22:43Oh, no, that was the whole idea. It was going to be my contribution.
00:22:46Well, can we move on now to the events of the following morning?
00:22:50Oh, well, then, Mr. Weems rang up him.
00:22:53He said that I really ought to stop the cheque and think again.
00:22:58Well, we talked about it and then I became really upset because I don't like arguments with people.
00:23:04And I knew that if I did stop the cheque, it'd annoy Madam.
00:23:07And if I didn't, well, then it'd upset Mr. Weems.
00:23:10Oh, and then my son came round and we had rows, you know.
00:23:14And I really, that was when I began to think that it really was more trouble than it was worth.
00:23:18So that evening I went round to see Madam and I explained to her the trouble I was in
00:23:23by giving her all this money and how I'd upset the bank manager, had a row with my son.
00:23:28And I said, well, didn't she think really that perhaps I'd better take you back and think again?
00:23:33Well, then she became really very angry.
00:23:37She said I was defying the spirits, that it was very dangerous to go against what the taro and the spirit writing said
00:23:45and that if I took the money back, it'd be the biggest mistake of my life.
00:23:49And, well, well, she said, well, she, she said terrible things. She said...
00:23:56If you took the money back, what did she say would happen?
00:24:00Well, she said I, she said I might die.
00:24:07The case of the Queen against Barnes, alias Bronski, will be resumed tomorrow in the Crown Court.
00:24:23The case you're about to see is fictitious, but the procedure is authentic.
00:24:46The characters are played by actors, but the jury is selected from members of the public.
00:24:50This is Mrs. Vera Barnes, also known as Madame Veda Bronski, a clairvoyant and spiritualist.
00:24:56She's charged with dishonestly obtaining £17,500 by deception from Mrs. Elizabeth Penn, a widow.
00:25:03She's pleaded not guilty.
00:25:05Mrs. Penn, how long did you spend at my client's home on the night that you gave her the money?
00:25:10Well, I suppose I got there about seven and left about midnight. Well, about five hours, I suppose.
00:25:16And I gather from what you told my learned colleague that the main subject of discussion during those five hours was the subject of your comparative wealth and what use you should make of it.
00:25:25Well, after Madame had read the cards for me and explained my problem.
00:25:29And what was the problem?
00:25:30Well, I couldn't develop my psychic powers, you see, because of my possessions, like money.
00:25:36Well, did you believe that to be true?
00:25:37Well, it seemed to make sense, yes.
00:25:39And do you think that Madame Veda Bronski believed that to be true?
00:25:42Yes, yes, I think she believed it. But on thinking over things since, I do feel she twisted it round into saying that I ought to give her the money.
00:25:50Yes, we'll come back to that. Do you accept that the strange symbol that appeared on the paper, the pyramid with the eye above it, was intended by your husband's spirit to represent the occult?
00:26:01Oh, yes, yes, I do, because I've seen symbols like that in books I've read since.
00:26:06Yes, and do you accept that the significance of this drawing was, as Madame Veda Bronski interpreted it, that you should give your money for the furtherance of the occult?
00:26:15Well, could have meant that, I suppose, yes.
00:26:17Well, Madame Veda Bronski said that she thought it meant that. Was she lying, do you suppose?
00:26:21No, I don't think lying, but, well, she could have been right. I mean, well, I expect she thought she was right.
00:26:29Yes, fine. So, up to the point where you decided to give your money away to be used for the furtherance of the occult sciences, you have no evidence that Madame Veda Bronski was acting under false pretenses?
00:26:40No, but it was after that when she persuaded me to give the money to her.
00:26:44Mrs. Penn, there's nothing illegal about giving another person money. The charge here is deception. Now, what was the deception?
00:26:51Well, by saying she was going to get a big house and open an institute, it just wasn't true.
00:26:58Oh, now, now, now, wait a minute. Look, your cheque was cleared on September the 29th, a little over three weeks later. Madame Veda Bronski was the subject of a police investigation.
00:27:09Well, that doesn't give a person very much time to exchange one house for another.
00:27:13Well, I don't think she ever intended using it for that.
00:27:16Yeah, but you've no evidence about that, have you? Now, I suggest that what upset you was the fact that when you took it into your head to ask for the money back, Madame Veda Bronski, as she had a perfect right to do, refused to give it back.
00:27:29Well, I wouldn't have mind if she just said, no, you can't have it. It was a terrible thing she said, saying I defied the spirits that were going to have their revenge on me and I might die.
00:27:38Oh, now, now, now, just a minute. Do you think Madame Veda Bronski was lying? Or do you think she really thought those things?
00:27:45Because so far you've told us that when Madame Veda Bronski spoke about the occult, about the spirit world, you believed her every word. Why should you suddenly disbelieve her about this?
00:27:55Well, I don't care if she believed it or whether she was making it up. She had no right to say those things to me. She knew it'd upset me.
00:28:01I said, when I first went to her, I said, now, you're not going to say anything to upset me, are you? And she said, no, she wouldn't. It wouldn't be ethical.
00:28:08Yeah, but, Mrs. Penn, supposing that she really believed that, supposing she really knew or believed that people who defy the spirits endanger their lives, wasn't it her duty as a friend to point this out to you?
00:28:19Well, anyway, the way she said it, it sounded like a threat.
00:28:22Well, it doesn't seem to have worried you unduly or you wouldn't be here giving evidence.
00:28:25It did worry me. I've not had a decent night's sleep since. I'm a bag of nerves. I've lost weight. I've been under the doctor for anxiety. It's been terrible.
00:28:33Yes, I'm sorry about that, Mrs. Penn, but tell me, if you really wanted to forget the whole thing, why didn't you?
00:28:40Because my son said I ought to try and get the money back. He told me to go ahead with it, and the police said that they could have her up for false pretenses, which I thought was fair.
00:28:49Well, she did make false pretenses. She wanted the money for herself, and she persuaded me to give it to her, and then she as good as told me to go away.
00:28:56She didn't want to see me anymore. After I trusted her and thought she was my friend. Well, isn't that false pretenses? Well, I think it was anyway.
00:29:06Do you think that you were foolish to give away that money?
00:29:09Yes, I do.
00:29:10Mrs. Penn, if every fool who gave away their money ran to the police with allegations of fraud and false pretenses, they'd never have time to investigate anything else, now would they?
00:29:21My lord, that remark really is unnecessarily offensive.
00:29:24I certainly don't think it requires an answer.
00:29:27No, thank you, my lord. I have no further questions.
00:29:29You may stand on, Mrs. Penn.
00:29:32Are you John Winder of 88B Exchange Buildings, Fullchester?
00:29:41That's correct, yes.
00:29:42And are you a private inquiry agent?
00:29:43That's correct, yes, sir.
00:29:44On 1st of October last, did you undertake an investigation on behalf of a Mr. Harold Penn?
00:29:49Yes, sir.
00:29:50Who was the subject of this inquiry?
00:29:52The defendant, Mrs. Barnes, alias Member Bronski.
00:29:55And how did you go about it, Mr. Winder?
00:29:57Well, first of all, I ran a check on her, as far as I could, without making myself known to the lady.
00:30:01Things like credit rating, criminal investigation.
00:30:04Mr. Percival, Mr. Percival.
00:30:06I trust your witness is going to confine his evidence to matters touching directly upon this case and this case alone?
00:30:13Is that clear?
00:30:14Quite clear, my lord.
00:30:16I wanted to bring in the defendant's credit rating as tending to show motive.
00:30:19Oh, no doubt you'll have the opportunity to ask her about that directly,
00:30:23since whatever this witness might say on the subject must presumably be hearsay.
00:30:29Quite so, my lord.
00:30:32Did you then get in touch with Madame Bronski?
00:30:35Yes, I telephoned the lady and said I'd seen her advertisement and I'd like to consult her.
00:30:39And I said I'd call on her the following Thursday evening, that would be the 9th of October.
00:30:43Yes, go on.
00:30:44Well, as soon as I got there she asked for money, she wanted ten pounds.
00:30:48So I gave her the money and she did a bit of fortune telling, palm reading and what have you.
00:30:52And then she said she thought I was under a lot of stress.
00:30:55So I represented to her, which was not the case, that my wife had died recently.
00:30:59This was an invention on your part.
00:31:01Oh, yes, I'm not married.
00:31:03I'm divorced, actually.
00:31:05Mike's wife is as fit as a fiddle.
00:31:07She's living with a butcher in Middlesbrough.
00:31:09Yes, I see.
00:31:10Well, go on.
00:31:11Well, she said that I wasn't too worried because my wife wasn't really dead.
00:31:14I thought, blimey, I've been rumbled already.
00:31:16So I was just going to own up when she said, oh, no, she's not really dead.
00:31:19She's just gone beyond.
00:31:21I said, beyond where or what?
00:31:23And she said, beyond the veil.
00:31:25I said, which veil's that then?
00:31:27And she said, the veil that we call death.
00:31:30To which I replied, oh.
00:31:33She said, do you want me to locate her for you?
00:31:36I said, yes, of a bust by all means, dear.
00:31:39So she put herself in a trance and started mumbling to herself.
00:31:43And a few minutes later, she opened her eyes and said, oh, dear.
00:31:46I said, what's the matter?
00:31:48She said, Mr. Williams, that was the name I was using, Williams.
00:31:51She says, Mr. Williams, your dear wife is earthbound.
00:31:55I said, oh, really?
00:31:56She said, yes.
00:31:58She said that an earthbound spirit is one who hasn't cottoned on to the fact that she's dead.
00:32:03So she said, if I like, she'd have a go at contacting her spirit
00:32:07and letting her know she was dead and then she'd be all right.
00:32:10I hope this is making itself clear to you because it didn't make itself clear to me.
00:32:14Well, never mind. Just tell us what happened next.
00:32:16Well, she went on about earthbound spirits for a while.
00:32:19And then she said, if I wanted a job doing, contacting my wife's spirit, you understand,
00:32:23she'd have to come to my home and stage the thing there.
00:32:26Apparently, that's where she was expecting to find my wife's ghost lurking about sort of thing.
00:32:32I said it couldn't be done. I moved house.
00:32:35And I got a very funny landlady who wouldn't want seances or exorcisms on the premises.
00:32:40And there was no point because my wife had never lived there in the first place.
00:32:45She said, where did I live at the time of her death?
00:32:47Because that's where the ghost was liable to be and would have to go there to find it.
00:32:51Well, I said the house had been demolished.
00:32:54But that wasn't true either.
00:32:56In fact, I haven't moved and I don't have a landlady.
00:32:59So she swallowed all this up, you see.
00:33:02And then she said, we'll have to go to the site where the house used to be.
00:33:06Well, I couldn't think of any reason not to go along with this.
00:33:09So we got in the car and I drove her down to Nelson Street, where they pulled down a lot of old houses
00:33:15and turned it into a corporation car park.
00:33:18Here we are, I said. This is where it used to be.
00:33:21She said, right.
00:33:22So she hopped under the car and stood in the middle of the car park.
00:33:26People reversing all around her, honking their horns, flashing their lights.
00:33:31She said, I'm sorry, it's no good.
00:33:34I can't go into a trance with all these vehicles whizzing about.
00:33:37It's distracting and besides, I might get run over.
00:33:40So, she said, we'd have to come back at three o'clock in the morning when the car park's empty.
00:33:44I said, presumably, this'll cost extra.
00:33:47I mean, I wouldn't expect you to exercise a corporation car park in the early hours just for ten quid.
00:33:53And she said, and I made an exact note of this immediately afterwards.
00:33:57She said, Mr. Williams, that's the name I was using.
00:34:00She said, Mr. Williams, your wife's happiness in the year after must be worth a lot to you.
00:34:04I said, I can't bear to think of her floating around Nelson Street for the rest of eternity.
00:34:09She said, well, in that case, I think you should have the full ceremony.
00:34:14It's expensive, but it's worth it.
00:34:16I said, what's involved?
00:34:18She said, there'd be a group of us and we'd want to bring some people from London and some others from Scotland.
00:34:26You'd have to pay their expenses and make it worth their while.
00:34:29I asked, how much?
00:34:30She said, £500.
00:34:32At that point, I said, I'd think about it and let her know.
00:34:36Then she asked me for my address and telephone number.
00:34:39I gave her a fictional address and telephone number and went home.
00:34:42Thank you, Mr. Wyndall.
00:34:44What do you imagine your investigation, if that's what you call it, what do you imagine it proves about my client?
00:34:50That proves, first of all, she's a fraud. She's no more clear-born than I am.
00:34:54I told her a string of lies and she believed them.
00:34:56Did Madame Bronski at any stage give any hint that she was not absolutely sincere in what she said to you?
00:35:02Oh, no, she's very good. She almost had me believing it half the time.
00:35:06So, leaving aside the question of whether what she says may occasionally be mistaken, you have no evidence that she's a fraud in the sense that she deliberately invents things.
00:35:16Well, she obviously didn't invent the bit about my wife being an earthbound spirit, did she?
00:35:21Mr. Wyndall, we are all earthbound spirits.
00:35:24Yes, well, I mean, you're right. I mean, yes.
00:35:28Did Mr. Penn suggest this trickery, that you should set a trap for my client?
00:35:32Oh, no, no. Like I said, it was my own approach to the investigation, but he was quite satisfied with the report I gave him.
00:35:38Now, about this money that was mentioned, the five hundred pounds.
00:35:42Now, that was the cost of mounting a full-scale ceremony of exorcism or something of the kind, yes?
00:35:47That's right.
00:35:48Of transporting an unspecified number of experienced psychics or clairvoyants or spiritualists here,
00:35:55of accommodating them during their stay and of sending them back home again, yes?
00:35:59But that's if it wasn't all going into her back pocket.
00:36:01Yes, but if there were, say, a dozen of these people for the sake of argument,
00:36:05wouldn't five hundred pounds seem to you to be a reasonable figure to achieve all this?
00:36:09Oh, come on. You could get Hammond's Sourceworks band for that price.
00:36:12Really? Nevertheless, that would work out at a little over forty pounds each.
00:36:18How much a day do you charge for your services, Mr. Wyndall?
00:36:22Yes, well, yes, I do a bit more, with respect and clamming about in car parks.
00:36:28Not in this case, you didn't.
00:36:29I swear by almighty God, the evidence I give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
00:36:43Madam Bronski, let me ask you...
00:36:45I swear it also by the twelve lords of the flame of the magical city of Shambhala, and by my spirit guide whose name I cannot speak.
00:36:51Thank you. Madam Bronski, I...
00:36:53I swear it by the spirit of Kuthumi, greatest of the Magis of Tibet, and by the gods of the Ancient One.
00:36:59Excuse me, Madam Bronski, you've taken the oath on the Bible. Anything you have to add to it doesn't affect its binding nature, and can therefore be dispensed with.
00:37:08I have finished.
00:37:10I'm glad to hear it. Can we proceed?
00:37:13You are Madam Vader Bronski?
00:37:15I am.
00:37:16And what is your address?
00:37:1717 Spruce Road, Fulchester.
00:37:19Madam Bronski, how long have you been aware that you possessed psychic powers?
00:37:24Let me see. About three thousand years.
00:37:27Madam, if you're going to be facetious, I must warn you that you'll be in contempt of court.
00:37:32Oh, my Lord, I have sworn to speak the truth, and I so speak it, as the lords of the flame are my witnesses.
00:37:38Perhaps you would explain.
00:37:41Well, in all my previous lives I've been a seer, a priestess. In ancient Egypt I was a votary of Osiris. In Ephesus I sacrificed at the Temple of Diana.
00:37:52Yes, could we perhaps confine ourselves to your present incarnation?
00:37:55Oh, in this incarnation. I've been aware for about 25 years.
00:38:00And what is the nature of the psychic powers that you possess?
00:38:04I have the gift of second sight. I have the power of travelling on the astral plane. I have knowledge of the past and of the future.
00:38:13I have the gift of healing by touch and by the projection of my psychic energy field. I can see auras and read the karma of people, cats, and to some extent horses. I have other powers of which I'm not permitted to speak.
00:38:28Thank goodness for that. Can we move on to facts of the case, Miss Gibson?
00:38:33Yes, my lord, I want to establish one point before I come on to my client's relationship with Mrs Penn. I will be brief.
00:38:41How much do you earn by your clairvoyance?
00:38:43About £20 a week.
00:38:45Do you have any other source of income?
00:38:47Oh, yes. Yes, I paint. Mostly portraits showing the aura of the subject in symbolic colours. I also own the lease of a fish and chip shop. It was left to me by a grateful client in her will. So with that, and with the money from my art and from my counselling, I have an income of perhaps £100 a week.
00:39:05And do you find that sufficient for your needs?
00:39:08More than enough. Well, I only make a charge for consultations to discourage time wasters.
00:39:13Now then, about Mrs Penn, we've heard that she first visited you last April or May.
00:39:18It was April the 14th.
00:39:19Thank you. And she visited you regularly every Wednesday until September. How would you describe your relationship with her?
00:39:27We were friends. No, no. More than friends, we were kindred spirits.
00:39:32Did you encourage in her the idea that she should give away her money?
00:39:36That idea was first suggested by the terror.
00:39:39Well, once the cards had indicated the problem, it was the obvious solution.
00:39:44You see, Elizabeth could not focus her being because she was tied to the material plane.
00:39:50Oh, it was quite clear to me when I first asked her to make a sound. A musical sound.
00:39:55Do you know what sound she made?
00:39:57It was ahhh.
00:39:59Why was that significant?
00:40:01Because the sound, R, represents earthly reality.
00:40:06I'd have been much happier if she'd made the sound, ooh.
00:40:09Ooh.
00:40:11The sound of the psychic state.
00:40:14Ah, but by far the best. The sound, mmm.
00:40:18Mmm.
00:40:21The symbol of the highest state of consciousness.
00:40:25I see.
00:40:26The world of perfect stillness.
00:40:28Now then, after you had read the tarot and come to this conclusion, you decided upon another occult experiment. Now what was that?
00:40:36I contacted the spirit of Arthur Penn, her late husband, and brought forth his message using the planchette.
00:40:41Will you explain how this equipment is used?
00:40:44It's very similar to a Ouija board.
00:40:46The sensitive places her fingers on the rim, and the spirit controls them, and uses their unconscious movements to write its message.
00:40:54Oh, it can't be fake. I mean, I must emphasize that. I mean, if you put your fingers on the planchette and try to produce a written message, you'd end up with a hopeless squiggle.
00:41:03But, by going into a trance, and allowing the spirit to work through you, you can produce legible writing.
00:41:13You know, when the spirit of Arthur Penn first came through, the writing was very clear, very firm.
00:41:19I felt that here was a mind of immense force and direction.
00:41:23Yes. Now, what was your experience? What did you feel while this was going on?
00:41:27Oh, my usual experience on these occasions?
00:41:30Ah, well, I feel detached from my own body as though I were a third person in the room.
00:41:38Oh, I can see and hear what's going on, but I can't control it unless I make an act of will to return into my body and come out of the trance.
00:41:45But, meanwhile, my body is being used by the spirit.
00:41:51Sometimes it speaks through my voice. Sometimes it writes its messages through my fingers.
00:41:58And sometimes it just plants thoughts or emotions in my mind that I know have come from elsewhere, from beyond.
00:42:10Now, we've heard from Mrs. Penn that her husband's spirit message asked her to use the money for the furtherance of the occult.
00:42:17But she said that it was your suggestion that she should give the money to you. Is that true?
00:42:23It arose out of a long discussion. Well, as you say, we were quite clear about the spirit message.
00:42:30She knew she wanted to give her money away and she knew it had to go in some way to help the secret arts.
00:42:36Well, she asked me. She said, what would you do, madame?
00:42:41And I said, oh, Elizabeth, I would found an institute. I would make it a place of occult learning for students of the occult from all over the world.
00:42:54A sort of university of the secret arts. That's how I would use the money.
00:43:00Do you know, the idea appealed to her enormously. She insisted that I should take the money and try and turn this dream into a reality.
00:43:12Now, we talked about how it could be done. How I could sell my house and she could sell hers, and we could pool our resources and buy premises to bring teachers and students of the occult together to share their wisdom and psychic gifts.
00:43:26Well, it would be a great venture. A worthy venture. We were both fired with enthusiasm.
00:43:32And I felt the warm approval of Arthur's spirit, too, that his money should be used in that way.
00:43:40We were both, I suppose you could say, we were both drunk with the excitement, with the grandeur of the vision.
00:43:48And she insisted. I didn't ask. I swear I didn't even as much as hint.
00:43:55She insisted on writing a cheque for all she had in the bank, and she presented it to me.
00:44:03And I was overwhelmed.
00:44:06But I felt myself strengthened in my resolution by her confidence in me.
00:44:12Any doubts I might have had about my ability to achieve that great thing were dissolved by that gesture of faith.
00:44:20I was close to tears.
00:44:24Well, I think we were both deeply moved.
00:44:26Now then, the following day you paid the cheque into your account, and that evening you received another visit from Mrs. Penn. Will you tell us what happened then?
00:44:35She was in a state of distress.
00:44:38I realised she'd, well, she'd been got at, to put it bluntly.
00:44:43I mean, her bank manager had been on at her, and her son interfered as well.
00:44:47Well, I explained to her. I should have explained before.
00:44:52The road to secret wisdom is a difficult one, partly because of the blindness and the prejudice of the unenlightened, but you had to ignore them, even fight against them.
00:45:04And I told her, well, again it was obvious, that her son was driven by greed.
00:45:11And I argued. Well, I reasoned with her.
00:45:14But I emphasised one thing above all, that it was the spirit of her husband that insisted that she make this gift.
00:45:21If she took the money back, she defied not me, but him.
00:45:26Well, I'm not a cowardly woman.
00:45:28But I would think twice before I went against the wishes, the instructions, of a spirit of the second sphere.
00:45:35Did you say that to defy the spirits would be to risk death?
00:45:38Yes.
00:45:39And why did you say that?
00:45:41Because it's true.
00:45:43Now, Detective Sergeant Cottrell has told the court that when he arrested you, you said,
00:45:48if the silly old bat wants to give me her money, it's her business.
00:45:53Now, did you say that?
00:45:54I don't remember saying anything like that.
00:45:57Well, I was angry, I know.
00:46:00I might have said something, that she was a silly old woman.
00:46:04I don't know, but the way he made it sound...
00:46:08Oh, no.
00:46:09Now, let me ask you now about the so-called investigation by the private detective, Mr. Winder.
00:46:15First of all, he says that you charged him ten pounds for a consultation.
00:46:20That's twice as much as you charged Mrs. Penn.
00:46:23Oh, yes.
00:46:24Well, I do that, you see.
00:46:26If I don't like the look of a client, I ask for a lot of money and it usually puts them off.
00:46:30Well, if he doesn't put them off, at least it compensates me for putting up with them, you know.
00:46:36What?
00:46:37I wasn't fooled by him.
00:46:38Oh, no.
00:46:39Not for a moment.
00:46:41I mean, all those lies about his wife having died and all that.
00:46:44I knew he was making it up.
00:46:46Well, I thought, well, Mr. Williams, just to see what this is all about.
00:46:51So I played it straight.
00:46:53I told him his wife was an earthbound spirit, which was true enough.
00:46:57And I said, we must go back to the place where she died.
00:47:00Well, that shook him.
00:47:02And he started gabbling all this rigmarole about how he'd moved and the house had been pulled down.
00:47:07And, well, it was all I could do to keep a straight face.
00:47:11And then he took me to this car park and he said, this was the place.
00:47:16Well, I thought, Jess, let's see how far you're prepared to go with this charade.
00:47:21How about 500 pounds?
00:47:23And that cooled him off straight away.
00:47:26You see, I couldn't understand why he was lying to me.
00:47:30And then I realized, well, I caught a flash from his subconscious.
00:47:34I can do that sometimes.
00:47:36I realized he was in league with my enemy, Harold Penn.
00:47:40Then it made sense.
00:47:42Why didn't you accuse him of lying to you, Madame Bronski?
00:47:45Well, I knew it wasn't the time or the place.
00:47:48That it was just part of a greater destiny that was working itself out.
00:47:52And so it has proved.
00:47:54Well, my presence here in this court is the culmination of a period of testing and preparation that I've been going through for many years.
00:48:03And the outcome of this trial is fated, too.
00:48:06I mean, it will prove my claims to a skeptical world.
00:48:09It will advance the course of the occult sciences more than anything else could do.
00:48:15We're all part of the plan.
00:48:17You are assuming that you will be acquitted, of course.
00:48:20Of course.
00:48:24The case of the Queen against Barnes, alias Bronski, will be concluded tomorrow in the Crown Court.
00:48:41The case you're about to see is fictitious, but the procedure is authentic.
00:49:00The characters are played by actors, but the jury is selected from members of the general public.
00:49:09Mrs. Vera Barnes, alias Madame Vida Bronski, claims to be a clairvoyant and to be able to contact the spirits of the dead.
00:49:17She's charged with dishonestly obtaining seventeen and a half thousand pounds by deception.
00:49:22The money was given to her by a former client, Mrs. Elizabeth Penn.
00:49:26She's pleaded not guilty.
00:49:28Madame Bronski.
00:49:29Madame Bronski.
00:49:30Your real name is Vera Barnes.
00:49:33Why did you change it?
00:49:34My name is Veda Efimovna Bronski.
00:49:37In my last incarnation, I was sister to Grigory Efimovic, who was better known as the monk Rasputin.
00:49:43Now, when I discovered that, I changed my name.
00:49:46But it is interesting, isn't it, that in this incarnation I should have been given the same initials and a very similar Christian name.
00:49:52Is there any historical evidence that Rasputin had a sister called Veda?
00:49:56My lord, with regret, I was not expecting to be asked about nineteenth-century Russian history.
00:50:01I have my information direct from the spirit of my late brother, but I'm sure it could be confirmed if you wanted to look it up.
00:50:07I don't suppose it matters.
00:50:09I would suggest to you that you changed your name because Madame Veda Bronski sounds a grander and more mysterious name than Mrs. Vera Barnes,
00:50:18and would therefore be better for business.
00:50:20Well, you may believe what you choose to believe, but I can call myself by any name I please.
00:50:25Well, if I'd wanted to take a name from an early incarnation, I might have been the Marquis Annette Duvern,
00:50:32or even Dimitria High Priestess of Artemis.
00:50:36What was your maiden name?
00:50:37In my present incarnation.
00:50:39On your birth certificate.
00:50:40Harbottle.
00:50:41Hmm.
00:50:42You are by profession, if that's the word, a clairvoyant.
00:50:47Do you have any qualifications?
00:50:48Have you, for example, studied the subject as a university, or do you have a certificate of competence in the occult?
00:50:54I've been tested by professional researchers.
00:50:57I'll be calling evidence on this point, my lord.
00:50:59Madame Bronski, I simply ask, do you have a degree or any other professional qualification?
00:51:04My lord, my learned friend knows full well that it is not customary for academic institutions to offer courses in this area of study.
00:51:11With respect to my learned friend, several universities in the United States of America, and no doubt elsewhere in the world, offer tuition in precisely this area.
00:51:20I ask you again, Madame Bronski, do you have professional qualifications as a clairvoyant?
00:51:27I do not need pieces of paper.
00:51:30I have traveled to the fourth circle of the astral universe.
00:51:34I have spoken with the spirits of Eliphas Levi and Madame Blavatsky.
00:51:38I have penetrated the secrets of the pyramids and the lost races of Atlantis and Moon.
00:51:44In short, the answer is no.
00:51:46Your main source of income, I think you said, is the lease on a fish and chip shop, which was bequeathed to you by one of your clients, yes?
00:51:54Yes.
00:51:55Yes, so even before you hit upon the unfortunate Mrs. Penn, you had already managed to turn your talents to considerable financial advantage.
00:52:02My lord, I really must object. The implication is that my client somehow engineered this bequest.
00:52:07Yes, perhaps you'll move on to matters of more immediate concern, Mr. Percival.
00:52:11My lord, let me ask you this, Madame Bronski.
00:52:14When Mrs. Penn first came to you, she had only recently lost her husband.
00:52:18You said yourself that she was subservient to him.
00:52:21Perhaps you would agree that she was in a very vulnerable state at the time.
00:52:25Oh, yes, I would agree to that.
00:52:27Yes. In fact, she was lonely, yes?
00:52:29Yes.
00:52:30Confused, unstable, easily led.
00:52:32Oh, yes.
00:52:33And you took advantage of that, didn't you?
00:52:34I did not. I helped her.
00:52:36I encouraged her to take charge of her own destiny.
00:52:39I told her, if you will it, it can be. You can become whatever you want to become.
00:52:45Was that why you called her a silly old bat?
00:52:48I'm sure I never said that.
00:52:49Oh, really? In order to become a psychic person, if that is what you are, is it necessary to have no money?
00:52:57Well, it depends. It depends on how much you're held back by an attachment to material things.
00:53:03Yes, but you're hardly penniless, are you, Madame Bronski, at least not since last September.
00:53:08And you live a very highly-coloured existence on the astral plane.
00:53:11Well, I never cared about money. I mean, money means nothing to me.
00:53:15Oh, so you can be psychic and rich, but if Mrs. Penn wants to be psychic, she has to be poor.
00:53:21Forgive me if I find that rather inconsistent.
00:53:24Elizabeth was worried about her money.
00:53:26If your money worries you, you should give it away and turn your mind to things that really matter.
00:53:31It's not only I that say this. Jesus of Nazareth said the same.
00:53:35But it was not the Bible that persuaded Mrs. Penn on this point, was it?
00:53:38It was your so-called spirit writing. This rather weird-looking implement of yours.
00:53:43May I have a look at it? Exhibit two. What's it called? Forgive my ignorance. A planchette. Yes.
00:53:48Ah, now then, you put your pencil through here, so it's...
00:53:55And then it, your finger's on the rim and it moves about if it's only caught it, right?
00:53:59Yes, only you're pushing it, you see. When the spirit moves it, it's quite different.
00:54:04Oh, well, let's see. What was the spirit message?
00:54:07A.P. The initials A.P. Arthur Penn.
00:54:13Well, it's a bit shaky, but no doubt it'll improve with practice.
00:54:17That's not spirit writing. It is quite different.
00:54:20Oh, really? Did you keep your piece of paper so that we may compare the two?
00:54:24No, I didn't.
00:54:25Ah. So much for the planchette.
00:54:27Ah, now, just a moment. You're trying to say I faked the whole thing.
00:54:30Thank you, Madame Bronski. I'd like to move on now, if I may.
00:54:32Oh, no, I want to answer this, Judge. I in no way...
00:54:35You are required only to answer the questions that are put to you.
00:54:38You must not make a statement except in answer to a question.
00:54:41I am not a fake.
00:54:44When Mr. Wynder, the private detective, consulted you about his wife,
00:54:48you did fake the trance. You told us yourself that you faked it.
00:54:52I did not say that.
00:54:53One moment, please. You told my colleague.
00:54:55I... I was not fooled by him.
00:54:58All those lies about his wife having died, I knew he was making it up,
00:55:01so I played it straight.
00:55:03I told him his wife was an earthbound spirit.
00:55:05In other words, you played out a charade for his benefit, yes?
00:55:08I played out a charade, yes.
00:55:10But even so, I genuinely went into a trance.
00:55:12And I searched the lower levels for the vibrations that would confirm his story.
00:55:17Naturally, I found nothing there, and that's when I knew he was lying.
00:55:20You know, your whole account of your dealings with Mr. Wynder is palpably false.
00:55:24You were taken in by him. You did believe his story.
00:55:27And you played out a charade for his benefit, because that's what you always do.
00:55:31Never mind. Let's get back to Mrs. Penn.
00:55:34She had decided to donate her money to the cause of the occult.
00:55:37Very well. What happened next?
00:55:39Did you perhaps discuss with her the many respected and official organizations
00:55:43to which she might contribute to the Society for Psychical Research, perhaps?
00:55:47Or did you perhaps suggest that she might make a grant to a university for the study of the occult?
00:55:52No, you did not. You said to her,
00:55:54Mrs. Penn, I think you should give your money to me.
00:55:56Oh, that's not how it happened. As I've said, it arose out of a long discussion.
00:56:01And anyway, why should I not be the best person to use her money the way she wanted?
00:56:07To finance a genuine international institute for the occult?
00:56:11Well, it's not the sort of thing you can rush into.
00:56:13I wanted to wait for a propitious moment to launch this venture.
00:56:17I wanted to fast, and to pray, and to seek the guidance of the powers,
00:56:21and to prepare myself in other ways.
00:56:23You were in no hurry. So why did you need a cheque that very evening?
00:56:27It didn't have to be that evening.
00:56:29But Elizabeth wanted to make the symbolic gesture of writing the cheque there and then,
00:56:33and giving it to me.
00:56:35I took it to please her.
00:56:37Well, to have rejected it would have been to spoil the moment.
00:56:40There was no waiting for a propitious moment about that transaction, was there?
00:56:44Well, I suppose it came as no surprise to you,
00:56:46when, later that same day, you had another visit from Mrs. Penn,
00:56:50who told you that she had indeed changed her mind.
00:56:52Not changed her mind. Had it changed for her?
00:56:55She asked for her money back, and you refused.
00:56:58In fact, you threatened her, didn't you?
00:57:00I certainly did not.
00:57:02Didn't you tell her that if she went back on the arrangement,
00:57:04the spirits would be angry?
00:57:06Didn't you say that if the spirits were angry,
00:57:08they would make her suffer, perhaps even cause her death?
00:57:11I said nothing at all like that.
00:57:15I told her it was unwise to act against the advice of her husband's spirits, certainly.
00:57:21Then she got very agitated and she asked me what would happen if she did that.
00:57:25And I told her, as I know it to be true, that in cases where people have defied the powers,
00:57:31those people have suffered and some of them have died.
00:57:35That is a fact.
00:57:37It did the trick though, didn't it?
00:57:39It scared her off, and you kept the money.
00:57:41Madame Bronski, you didn't want that money to start any institute.
00:57:46That was simply part of your confidence trick.
00:57:49The simple truth is that you wanted a lot of money,
00:57:51and you wanted it quickly for a quite different reason.
00:57:54My lord, my learned friend is touching here upon matters
00:57:56that are not pertinent to the case and may be prejudicial to my client.
00:57:59What have you to say to that, Mr. Percival? Is that so?
00:58:03No, my lord, it is highly pertinent and in fact relates to her evidence in chief,
00:58:07in the course of which the witness made several statements which are not true.
00:58:10I shall confine my cross-examination to those statements.
00:58:13I will.
00:58:16You told Ms. Gibson that your income is about £100 a week, yes?
00:58:24That's right.
00:58:25You said it was sufficient for your needs?
00:58:27Yes.
00:58:28You said, I don't need any more money?
00:58:30Yes.
00:58:31Well, that's not true, is it?
00:58:33Well, of course it's true.
00:58:34Who could need any more?
00:58:36I mean, I live alone.
00:58:37My needs are very few.
00:58:38Well, isn't it true that you were, before you received this windfall from Mrs. Penn,
00:58:43quite heavily in debt?
00:58:44My lord, really?
00:58:45We've heard no evidence on this point.
00:58:46It's quite improper for my learned friend to introduce such matters at this stage.
00:58:50Not at all, Ms. Gibson.
00:58:52Your client's financial state is a perfectly proper topic for cross-examination.
00:58:57Thank you, my lord.
00:59:00Well, Madame Bronski, were you in debt?
00:59:05I owe money.
00:59:07All right, everybody owes money.
00:59:09I mean, the grocery bill, the telephone bill, income tax.
00:59:13I owe a little, here and there.
00:59:16But I own a house, don't forget.
00:59:18My house is security for my debts.
00:59:20The house you were proposing to sell, to finance your institute.
00:59:24Money is not important to me.
00:59:26I don't worry about it.
00:59:28I never have.
00:59:29How can anyone who has traveled in the fourth dimension worry about things like that?
00:59:37I have no further questions.
00:59:39You may return the defendant to the dock.
00:59:43Are you Professor Hubert Loomis of Fulchester University?
00:59:52As far as I know.
00:59:53Is there some doubt about it?
00:59:55Philosophically speaking, there might well be.
00:59:57However, I shan't quibble.
00:59:59And where do you live, Professor?
01:00:01Swan Cottage, Bawford.
01:00:02What is your field of study?
01:00:04Biophysics.
01:00:05Specifically, the energy fields generated or modified by living organisms.
01:00:09I see.
01:00:10Now, do you know the defendant, Madame Bronski?
01:00:12Oh, yes.
01:00:13So, will you tell the court how you first encountered her?
01:00:16Yes, certainly.
01:00:18She wrote to me some two years ago at the university,
01:00:21in answer to an advertisement which I placed in the psychic news.
01:00:24It was an open invitation, really, to anyone who considered him or herself
01:00:28to be psychic or clairvoyant, to use those very imprecise terms,
01:00:31to participate in a series of experiments.
01:00:34Madame Bronski was one of five people who responded to the advertisement.
01:00:38What was the aim of these experiments, Professor?
01:00:41The hypothesis was this,
01:00:43that those people who lay claim to psychic or clairvoyant powers are,
01:00:48one considers specifically telepathy, psychotenasis or faith healing,
01:00:52are, insofar as their claim may be justified,
01:00:55either reacting to or generating a biological energy field,
01:01:00what is sometimes called the psychomagnetic field.
01:01:02It's an attractive hypothesis.
01:01:04Yes, so fascinating as this may be to those who understand it,
01:01:06will you direct the witness to the facts of the case?
01:01:09Milor, I'm trying to establish that Madame Bronski's claims
01:01:12about clairvoyancy and spiritualism are indeed taken seriously
01:01:17by such reputable scientists as Professor Loomis.
01:01:20No doubt, may we now have some evidence on the point.
01:01:23Yes, milor.
01:01:24Will you tell us, as briefly as you can,
01:01:27about the experiment that you did with Madame Bronski?
01:01:30I set up an experiment to test the claim which is often made by clairvoyants,
01:01:35that by handling an object which has been in the possession of a particular person,
01:01:39the clairvoyant can discover certain facts about that person.
01:01:42I took twelve of my students.
01:01:44Each of them put a particular personal possession,
01:01:47a penlight, cigarette lighter, a ring, and so on, into a bag.
01:01:50I then took that bag through into the other room
01:01:53and asked Madame Bronski to take out each article in turn
01:01:57and to describe its owner,
01:01:59basing her impression, of course, only on what she could learn from the object.
01:02:02I wrote down the descriptions, took them back to the students
01:02:06and asked them to sort out among themselves which description fitted which student.
01:02:10Now, by comparing that matching with the true pairing,
01:02:14I was able to arrive at a statistical measure
01:02:17of how well or badly Madame Bronski had performed.
01:02:19Yes, and the result?
01:02:21Over a series of ten trials,
01:02:24the number of hits, that's to say correct guesses,
01:02:26was over five times chance expectation.
01:02:28Yes, how did she compare with other psychics you tested?
01:02:31Oh, she was by far the best.
01:02:33Two of the others achieved significant results,
01:02:35but Madame was outstanding.
01:02:36Excuse me, before you go on,
01:02:38what do you mean by chance expectation?
01:02:40The expected number of accurate guesses
01:02:42when the individual is working entirely at random.
01:02:45The odds against a hit on any individual attempt
01:02:48are eleven to one against.
01:02:49So five times would be fifty correct guesses.
01:02:53That's right.
01:02:54In other words, she was wrong more often than she was right.
01:02:57Oh, well, yes, but the odds against such a result
01:02:59happening by chance are astronomical.
01:03:01I see. Carry on.
01:03:03What was the next stage of your experiment, Professor?
01:03:06We ran a series of similar tests,
01:03:08but this time introducing various factors
01:03:11which might be expected to make it more difficult for the subject.
01:03:14Now, for example, we used twelve identical little tin boxes
01:03:17which could be told apart only by a number inside the lid of each box.
01:03:21Madame was asked to match each box to the student
01:03:24who'd been carrying it in his pocket all morning.
01:03:26Again, over the series, she scored significantly above chance.
01:03:29But what was perhaps more interesting?
01:03:31For this series, we wired her and the other subjects
01:03:34to an electroencephalograph.
01:03:36Now, using this equipment, we were able to measure
01:03:39the electrical activity of her brain
01:03:41while she was handling the objects.
01:03:43And the results were quite extraordinary.
01:03:46As she began to concentrate,
01:03:48the wave pattern showed the usual combination
01:03:51of detachment and excitement.
01:03:53It's a recognized pattern.
01:03:54And then we recorded a surge of electrical activity
01:03:58across a wide part of the cortex, about 20 microvolts.
01:04:01And immediately after that, the most remarkable thing.
01:04:05Nothing at all for the space of three or four seconds.
01:04:09It's unprecedented.
01:04:10Well, how would you explain this interruption
01:04:12of the brain's electrical activity?
01:04:14Well, my own inclination is to the view that in some way,
01:04:17Madame Bronsky was, by psychokinetic power,
01:04:20interrupting the usual operation of the equipment.
01:04:22There have been cases in the past
01:04:24where psychics have had a curious effect
01:04:26on electrical equipment placed near them,
01:04:28cameras, tape recorders, wireless, and so on.
01:04:31But against that, one has to set
01:04:33Madame Bronsky's own explanation of the effect.
01:04:37She said that she had, as she put it,
01:04:40left the body and entered the astral plane.
01:04:43Now, to her, the period had seemed much longer
01:04:45than a mere couple of seconds.
01:04:47But since she also points out
01:04:49that the astral plane exists outside normal space and time,
01:04:53that also makes a strange kind of sense.
01:04:56Did you proceed to further experiments?
01:04:59Unfortunately not.
01:05:00Why not?
01:05:02There was disagreement in the department
01:05:04about the usefulness of the experiments.
01:05:06Well, money to pay for them was limited.
01:05:08We came to the end of our allocation,
01:05:09and it was not renewed.
01:05:10I am hopeful of reversing the decision
01:05:12and resuming the experiments before too long.
01:05:15In your expert opinion, Professor,
01:05:17do the facts support Madame Bronsky's claims
01:05:19that she is a genuine psychic?
01:05:21Hmm.
01:05:23I cannot answer that question with a simple yes or no.
01:05:27But I can say that,
01:05:29insofar as I have been able to measure
01:05:32the ability which he calls clairvoyance,
01:05:34it is genuine, consistent,
01:05:37and at the moment quite mysterious.
01:05:42Professor Lomas,
01:05:44I am sure you know a great deal about biophysics.
01:05:48How much do you know about conjuring tricks?
01:05:50No.
01:05:51Very little.
01:05:52These were not conjuring tricks.
01:05:53Did you, in setting up these experiments,
01:05:55ask the advice of a professional magician?
01:05:58No.
01:05:59I see.
01:06:00Why did you change the system after the first series?
01:06:02Oh, well, as I explained,
01:06:03to make it more difficult for the subjects.
01:06:05To make it harder to cheat?
01:06:06If you like, yes.
01:06:07So it was possible for Madame Bronsky
01:06:09to cheat on the first series?
01:06:10It would have been very difficult.
01:06:12But I wanted to eliminate any possibility
01:06:14of unconscious clues,
01:06:15or that the effect could be achieved by telepathy,
01:06:18as opposed to true clairvoyance.
01:06:20You see,
01:06:21if I was printing the objects to Madame Bronsky,
01:06:23and I knew who owned each object,
01:06:25well, she had only to read my mind.
01:06:28Hmm.
01:06:29So you admit the first series of experiments
01:06:30were badly designed?
01:06:32It was capable of improvement,
01:06:33so I improved them.
01:06:34Yes.
01:06:35And did she do equally as well in the second series?
01:06:37Almost as well, yes.
01:06:38But did she do equally or better?
01:06:40Yes or no?
01:06:41No.
01:06:42Hmm.
01:06:43How much of a sensation
01:06:45did these results of yours cause
01:06:47in the scientific world?
01:06:48They haven't been published yet.
01:06:49Oh, why not?
01:06:50Well, I haven't been able to complete my experiments.
01:06:52I should want to be absolutely certain of my results.
01:06:54You mean at the moment you're uncertain?
01:06:56Well, I should want to run sequences
01:06:59of several thousand hits or misses
01:07:01rather than a mere couple of hundred.
01:07:02You see, the more you do,
01:07:04the more certain it becomes
01:07:05the more certain it becomes
01:07:06that any deviation from chance expectation
01:07:08is significant.
01:07:09Yes, but so far
01:07:10you're not sure enough of your results
01:07:12to publish them.
01:07:13No.
01:07:14And meanwhile your grant has been withdrawn
01:07:17because your colleagues thought
01:07:18you were wasting time and money?
01:07:20Well, it was a matter of priorities
01:07:22in the allocation of resources.
01:07:23There is prejudice in the academic world
01:07:25against the investigation of the paranormal
01:07:27and a scientist who takes it seriously
01:07:30does run the risk of being called a crank.
01:07:32The fact that I have chosen to stake my reputation
01:07:35on this series of experiments
01:07:36is I suppose a measure of the importance
01:07:39that I attach to them.
01:07:40Hmm.
01:07:41And how has your reputation fared, Professor?
01:07:44Not very well so far.
01:07:46Just one final question, Professor Loomis.
01:07:49Is there a scientist in this country
01:07:50who knows more about the subject of clairvoyance
01:07:53than you do?
01:07:54In all modesty I doubt it.
01:07:58And so, members of the jury,
01:08:00we have proved the four crucial facts
01:08:02which we set out to prove in this case.
01:08:04The first is not disputed.
01:08:06That on the 24th of September
01:08:09Mrs. Penn gave to Madame Bronski
01:08:11the sum of 17,500 pounds.
01:08:13The second is the fact of her reason
01:08:15for making this gift.
01:08:17As Mrs. Penn told you,
01:08:19she did so because she believed
01:08:21that her late husband's spirit
01:08:23wanted her to do it.
01:08:25And that brings us to the third essential fact,
01:08:28the reason why Mrs. Penn had come to hold
01:08:31this bizarre opinion.
01:08:33She was persuaded of it
01:08:35by the performance
01:08:36with the so-called spirit writing
01:08:38on the part of Madame Bronski.
01:08:41The fourth fact is the most vital one,
01:08:44that Madame Bronski deliberately deceived her
01:08:47on this point.
01:08:49She told Mrs. Penn a pack of lies,
01:08:52which she knew were lies.
01:08:54Of course, Madame Bronski is a very persuasive woman
01:08:57who has tried to persuade all of us
01:08:59that she at least believes all this nonsense
01:09:02about spirits and vibrations and so on.
01:09:04But the law takes account of that.
01:09:06If Madame Bronski presented as fact
01:09:09statements,
01:09:10which she knew were at best unverifiable,
01:09:13uncertain,
01:09:14mere guesses and possibilities,
01:09:16then she is guilty of false pretenses.
01:09:18Whatever tricks Madame Bronski
01:09:21may have been able to do with tin boxes
01:09:24and brainwave machines,
01:09:26on that one crucial occasion,
01:09:28at least she was a fraud.
01:09:30Again, if Madame Bronski pretended
01:09:33that she was going to buy a big house
01:09:35and start an institute for the occult,
01:09:38and that was not true,
01:09:39then that was a false pretense.
01:09:41She defrauded a gullible widow
01:09:46of her life savings.
01:09:48That is the inescapable conclusion
01:09:50if you accept these four simple facts.
01:09:52Your verdict must be guilty.
01:09:55Members of the jury,
01:09:57you don't have to believe in spiritualism
01:10:00to find my client not guilty.
01:10:03Although I hope that after hearing
01:10:04from Professor Loomis
01:10:05you're keeping an open mind.
01:10:06No, all you have to accept,
01:10:08and I think it's glaringly obvious,
01:10:10is that Madame Bronski herself
01:10:12believes in spiritualism,
01:10:13believes in the astral plane,
01:10:15and is convinced that when she goes
01:10:17into one of her trances,
01:10:18she does indeed communicate with the dead.
01:10:21A spiritualism is not as eccentric a belief
01:10:24as you might suppose
01:10:25a good many famous people have subscribed to it.
01:10:28Abraham Lincoln,
01:10:29Thomas Edison,
01:10:30the writer Conan Doyle,
01:10:32and to these names
01:10:34we must add that of Elizabeth Penn,
01:10:36an ardent convert
01:10:37to the beliefs of Madame Bronski,
01:10:39who one evening decided
01:10:40to support her friend's plans
01:10:42for an institute of the occult
01:10:44and stumped up some money towards it.
01:10:46It was a private financial arrangement
01:10:48between two fellow believers,
01:10:50and then a whole series of people
01:10:52decided to interfere in it.
01:10:54Mr. Weems, bank manager,
01:10:57Harold Penn, the son,
01:10:59and let's not forget it,
01:11:00sole heir.
01:11:02Mr. John Winder, private detective,
01:11:05although what his evidence
01:11:06has to do with it,
01:11:07heaven alone knows.
01:11:09And finally,
01:11:10the awesome machinery
01:11:11of the criminal law.
01:11:13Now members of the jury,
01:11:15do you really believe
01:11:16that Madame Bronski is a criminal,
01:11:18a thief?
01:11:20Or is she perhaps
01:11:22a woman of possibly eccentric beliefs
01:11:24who had a dream,
01:11:25a burning ambition,
01:11:27and whose friend decided
01:11:28to share it with her?
01:11:30There's an ancient principle
01:11:31of the law,
01:11:32volente non fit injuria,
01:11:35and that roughly translated means
01:11:37if the victim is willing,
01:11:39then there is no crime.
01:11:41Well, this being the case,
01:11:43it is your duty
01:11:44to find my client not guilty.
01:11:47I remind you
01:11:48that you must first decide
01:11:50whether the accused acted dishonestly.
01:11:53That means
01:11:54whether she said things
01:11:55that were untrue
01:11:56and which she knew
01:11:57were or might be untrue
01:11:59in order to get money
01:12:00from Mrs. Penn.
01:12:02Now it's not enough
01:12:03to decide
01:12:04that what she said
01:12:05was untrue,
01:12:06or even that any reasonable person
01:12:08would have known
01:12:09that it was untrue.
01:12:11You must be sure
01:12:13that she herself said
01:12:14it was true
01:12:15when she herself knew
01:12:17that it was either untrue
01:12:19or uncertain.
01:12:21You must be sure, secondly,
01:12:24that it was because
01:12:25of this deception,
01:12:27this false pretense
01:12:29that the money was paid.
01:12:31only if you're sure
01:12:33on those points
01:12:34will you find
01:12:36the defendant guilty.
01:12:38Now will you please retire,
01:12:40appoint the foreman
01:12:41to speak for you
01:12:42and consider your verdict.
01:12:46All stand.
01:12:53Will the foreman please rise?
01:12:56Please answer this question,
01:12:57yes or no.
01:12:58Are you agreed upon your verdict?
01:13:00Yes.
01:13:01Do you find the defendant,
01:13:02Mrs. Vader-Bronsky,
01:13:03guilty or not guilty?
01:13:05Guilty.
01:13:08Your bonds,
01:13:09stand up, will you?
01:13:12The offence you committed
01:13:13is a very serious one.
01:13:15You took advantage
01:13:16of a person
01:13:17in a particularly vulnerable state
01:13:20following a bereavement.
01:13:22Were it not
01:13:23for your previous good character,
01:13:25the sentence of this court
01:13:27would be an extremely severe one.
01:13:29However,
01:13:31I am bound to take that into account
01:13:33and the fact
01:13:34that your counsel
01:13:35has undertaken
01:13:36that the money
01:13:37will be returned.
01:13:39The sentence of this court
01:13:40is a term of imprisonment
01:13:41for 18 months,
01:13:42suspended for two years.
01:13:44It ended for two years.
01:13:45Thank you very much.
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