At Tuesday's Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing last week, Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE) questioned Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
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00:00Ranking Member. Thank you, Secretary Rubio. Look forward to two sessions together today. This
00:05afternoon you'll be in front of the Appropriations Subcommittee. And I think there's going to be
00:09some themes across both of these. First, I think we all agree that China poses our single greatest
00:16geopolitical threat and that we have no choice but to deter China across the board and to out
00:22compete China. Senator Ricketts and I just traveled to the Philippines and Taiwan and saw
00:28directly the challenges that we face there and regionally. And you've recently had some
00:34significant successes, the DRC Rwanda, a peace transition, the avoidance of escalation in India
00:41and Pakistan, the opening towards Syria. But I also frankly think that there's been a real lack
00:47of coordination and some serious harm to our standing in the world with some of the countries
00:52that we have worked most closely with over decades. The Doge-driven abrupt and largely illegal cancellation
01:01of billions of dollars of contracts for humanitarian relief and aid and the disrespect and the dismissal
01:08of thousands of AID staff and our NGO partners stands in sharp contrast to the state reorganization
01:15process you just presented on in your following. You've submitted plans and proposals. We're having
01:21a conversation. You're going to send a congressional notification. We're going to have a hearing.
01:25That's the way that the reforming of USAID could have and should have happened. And so I just at the
01:33outset had to say as someone who spent 15 years traveling the world, visiting both our partners and allies,
01:40looking at independent or semi-independent agencies like the MCC and the DFC and their role and visiting
01:47NGO partners and the USAID. I reject the broad characterization of them by Elon Musk and Doge as
01:55criminals who were wasting taxpayer money. You've heard across all of us support for PEPFAR, concern about
02:02humanitarian relief and the vision that this is a key strategic asset for us. It's my hope that we'll work together to
02:10actually make real a more effective, focused and sustainable foreign aid component to what STAID does
02:17and sustaining organizations that we help build together like the MCC, the DFC and the Global Fragility Act.
02:25So let me turn to this for a moment. My colleague, Senator Shaheen, made reference to places in the world where
02:33the CCP and the PRC have stepped forward. I agree they're never going to deliver humanitarian aid the
02:39way we used to and with the breadth, depth and effectiveness that we have. But I also think
02:45they're taking advantage of the opening to say that we're not reliable, that our decades long
02:49partnerships can't be sustained and extended and to question our motivations. So I think we need to step
02:55out quickly to avoid creating a big hole in our credibility globally. Let me just start on a few
03:02questions with Ukraine. The previous administration worked closely with our partners and allies in
03:08Europe on sanctions to tighten them, to close loopholes, to extend designations. Are you continuing to do
03:16that? Work with our allies? To tighten the sanctions? Yeah. So, well, first of all, you know, the Europeans
03:23have their own set of sanctions and we've coordinated with them very closely. In fact, the president had a
03:28call with at least six leaders from Europe yesterday. I had meetings with what we call the
03:33quint that include Italy, France, the UK, the Germans, the French. So we are constant contact
03:42with them on the work that they're doing and they're proceeding along their own route. And in fact, in our
03:46conversations in the past with the Russians, we made clear to them that the Europeans and ultimately
03:50will have to be at the table because they have their own set of sanctions that they're imposing. So the
03:54answer to your question is we have worked very closely with them. We, the president understands
03:58fully the options he has available to him, some of which are represented in the bill before the
04:03Senate. In the bill before the Senate that Senator Graham and others have led and that I co-sponsor,
04:08I think we have an opportunity to put more pressure on Russia and to push Putin to get to the table and to
04:14agree to adjust an enduring peace. Do you support that sanctions bill? And do you think we should continue
04:20to arm Ukraine and to strengthen the sanctions against Ukraine in order to create the conditions
04:27for a real negotiation? Yeah, look, it may come to that point. If in fact it is clear that the Russians
04:31are not interested in a peace deal and they just want to keep fighting a war, it may very well come
04:34to that point. The president has made that in the past. Our belief, the president's belief is,
04:39he doesn't, he believes that right now if you start threatening sanctions, the Russians will stop talking.
04:43And there's value in us being able to talk to them and drive them to get to the table.
04:47They agree. Like, we'll see. Look, they have to do this. No one's claiming that this is a guarantee.
04:50President Zelenskyy reversed himself, showed up, was ready and willing to negotiate. And Putin,
04:55I think, my view, continues to play for time. Well, so they… I hope that we can work together
05:00to put more pressure on Putin to get to the table and to resolve this. The other thing that I see
05:06clearly, and I think many of my colleagues do, is that what happens in Ukraine sets the table for what
05:11happens in the Indo-Pacific. That there's an increasing coordination between the Russians,
05:16the Iranians, the DPRK, and the PRC. Do you see that as well, Mr. Secretary?
05:20Well, we remind our European allies every day that we're not for China. Russia would not be
05:25able to sustain this. And they're fully aware of that. And obviously, we all understand the
05:28presence of the North Koreans and the Iranian role in this as well. But by the same token,
05:32I would say, well, there's a flip side to that. And that is, every minute we spend,
05:37every dollar we spend on this conflict in Europe is distracting both our focus and our resources
05:42away from a potential for a much more serious, much more cataclysmic confrontation in the Indo-Pacific.
05:48So the answer is yes, they are related, but they're related both ways. They're related on the one
05:51hand by the precedent that it could set, but they're also related by the fact that every minute that we
05:57spend on this conflict, that cannot be won by military means. Every resource that's expended into
06:01it is money and time that's not being spent on preventing a much more serious confrontation
06:07from a global perspective in the Indo-Pacific. You made the point earlier that, in your view,
06:13we did not coordinate well enough between countries where we for decades had done humanitarian aid,
06:19disaster relief, public health work, and countries that ally with China in terms of
06:24resource mining and processing. One of the countries we visited was the Philippines. The
06:29Philippines is the most disaster-prone country on Earth. They have more typhoons, volcanoes,
06:34earthquakes, and anywhere else, and they are a treaty ally of the United States. Yet we abruptly
06:39canceled a whole series of programs that provided disaster assistance, development assistance, and
06:44humanitarian aid. My hope is that we will work together to follow an appropriate and legal process
06:52to reform foreign aid and to align it with our values and priorities. I've long seen the MCC and the
06:59DFC as critical components in pushing back on what you correctly perceive as the PRC's extractive
07:06engagement with much of their region. What do you see as the future for organizations like the MCC and
07:12the DFC? And when we next speak this afternoon, I'll be pressing you on the America First Opportunity Fund
07:19and understanding how this nearly three billion dollar agile fund will fit into the picture for the future
07:25of aid. Yeah, on DFC, you know, we don't control those two entities. They're independent. They're both
07:30undergoing a review. DFC, I think, has the opportunity to potentially even expand. That's not a commitment,
07:35but I'm telling you there's talk about that. On Millennium Challenge, I think that there were some,
07:40I saw some reporting out there that it was being imploded. My understanding is the way it's being
07:44approached is that it's being reformed but not done away with. It was actually created as an
07:48alternative to the way we did aid with USAID. And so there's work happening on both of them. So
07:53my personal view on DFC is I think DFC has an opportunity to perhaps do more. It's the sort of
07:58investment we want to make around the world and the way it's structured. And on Millennium Challenge,
08:02it's undergoing a review right now, but the review is designed to improve it, not to eliminate it.
08:08Well, we should talk more directly about that. I'm concerned that what's happened in other agencies
08:12is happening there. The overwhelming majority of the headquarters staff being suspended or fired,
08:17and then compacts eliminated more quickly than it's being reformed. Same thing with global
08:22communications through USAGM, Radio Free Europe, Radio Free Asia. I'm concerned that we are conceding
08:29spaces to the PRC when we should be working together on a shared objective.
08:34MAGIC economy.
08:36We need further direction, and we need further direction.
08:40So I feel like going after the talk guys going, we've to get more proposals within the
08:48public.
08:50We need further direction in the industry.
08:52So the end of the pandemic we should be working together.
08:53We need further direction, and that we need further direction.
08:54So we're going to bring you in please follow.
08:56We need further direction in the country.
08:57So I think that you need further direction, and I think that we should do for a couple of
08:58recommendations.
08:58But this is part of the most of the projects that I think we should be looking at.