On this week’s show, The YP’s Stuart Rayner and Tom Coates join host Mark Singleton to pick over the agonising 2-1 loss for Sheffield United in Saturday’s Championship play-off final against Sunderland at Wembley and how they bounce back to ensure an automatic promotion spot come the end of the 2025-26 season.
It is also time for our Championship review, as we assess the respective campaigns of Leeds United (brilliant), Middlesbrough (so-so), Sheffield Wednesday (frustrating) and Hull City (disappointing).
It is also time for our Championship review, as we assess the respective campaigns of Leeds United (brilliant), Middlesbrough (so-so), Sheffield Wednesday (frustrating) and Hull City (disappointing).
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SportsTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to the latest edition of Football Talk from the Yorkshire Post, where
00:21we'll be discussing some of the latest talking points from the world of football with members
00:24of our football writing team. On this week's episode, we're joined by Chief Football
00:28Writer for the Yorkshire Post, Stuart Rayner, and Sports Trends Writer for the Yorkshire
00:32Post, Tom Coates, to discuss all the latest developments affecting our local clubs. Don't
00:37forget you can keep up to date with all the latest football news across Yorkshire and
00:40beyond by logging on to our website at yp.sport at nationalworld.com, as well as checking
00:46out our various Twitter feeds, the main one being at ypsport. If you search for Yorkshire
00:50Post Sport, Yorkshire Post Football, or even Sheffield Sport on Facebook, you can find
00:54us there as well. If you have any questions for our writers, you can get in touch using
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01:03footballtalkpodcast at yp.sport at nationalworld.com.
01:10As mentioned earlier in the intro, this week we're joined by Chief Football Writer for
01:13the Yorkshire Post, Stuart Rayner, and Sports Trends Writer for the Yorkshire Post, Tom
01:16Coates. Good morning, guys.
01:18Morning.
01:19Morning.
01:20Morning.
01:21So, even though the curtain has finally come down on another entertaining and frantic football
01:25season, we still have a number of topics to discuss regarding our local clubs, starting
01:30with Sheffield United, who suffered yet more Wembley heartbreak when they fell to a late
01:352-1 defeat at the hands of Sunderland, which was their fifth defeat in a final, and means
01:41that Chris Wilders' side will be in the Championship for at least one more season.
01:46Now, what did you make of the game, which, for all intents and purposes, looked like
01:51the Blades had control of for most of it? And how did they approach next season, Stuart?
01:58Well, yeah, they did. I mean, they were probably, well, they were the better team over the 90
02:04minutes, or 97, or whatever it ended up being. But Sunderland took the moments, and that's
02:10what it's all about, really. Yeah, it was a real choke of fun, because they were so
02:17good in the first half, scored a really good goal made by Chris Hamer and scored by Tyrese
02:24Campbell, and then thought they got a second when Harrison Burrows found the net. And you
02:29felt then that if they had, that that might have been job done. But it was disallowed
02:36for VAR. It was the right decision. There was always going to be, always with VAR, there's
02:45some sort of controversy, isn't it? And in the playoffs, like the FA Cup, the debate
02:49is always, well, should you bring it in just for, in this case, the final? When all said
02:54and done, to my mind, at least, I know some people think differently, I think it was the
02:59right decision reached. And I think it was communicated properly. And, you know, it was
03:04nice to see the ref on the mic explaining it to the crowd, because too often the people
03:11actually paying money to be in the ground are the last to find out actually why a decision
03:16has been reached. So that was good. And in fairness, obviously, there was a bit of rewriting
03:21of history afterwards, but before the game, Chris Wyler was asked about VAR and his line
03:26was, I just hope we get the right decision. And they got the right decision. So yeah,
03:31that was the story of the first half. Some of them weren't really in it at all. Anthony
03:36Patson, I've just mentioned, made a brilliant save after two minutes. And then second half,
03:41someone came into it more, but you still felt Sheffield United were controlling it in terms
03:45of keeping them away from their goal. A bit of bad luck, Heyman going off injured and
03:51then the man who came on for Heyman, Baratunde Dias coming off injured. Someone get back
03:58into it with another great goal. And then Ahmed Hojic goes off injured and whilst he's
04:03off the field and Sheffield United deciding what to do. Kiefer Moore gives the ball away,
04:08been really good up to then, but just one slip. Tommy Watson's allowed to carry the
04:14ball a very long way and scores a really good goal. And that's the sort of cruel nature
04:19of finals sometimes. They can just turn on a moment like that. But I mean, in terms of
04:25where Sheffield United go from here, there's a lot of sort of positive history for them
04:32to follow. I did a piece in Tuesday's Yorkshire Post. There's two teams in the history of
04:40the playoff era who've gone down from the Premier League, got 90 points the next season,
04:45missed out on all to massive promotion, got to the final, lost the final in pretty devastating
04:51fashion and then won the title the next season with over 100 points. Obviously, we all know
04:57about Leeds United and Sunderland did it in 1998-99 as well. So it just shows how if you
05:05use that disappointment in the right way, and I think that's something all sports people
05:09are good at, it can be a real positive. I mean, there's Leicester, there's Palace,
05:16there's West Ham, West Brom, Reading, Middlesbrough, Villa, Brentford. They've all lost in the playoff
05:22final and gone up the next season. So it's very, very doable. We've seen it go the other
05:27way with Huddersfield and Barnsley and that's sort of started their tail off. So it's certainly
05:32not guaranteed. And the big challenge now is to keep the bulk of that squad together.
05:37The vultures will be circling around Hamer, who Leeds were very keen on in January.
05:42You'd be very surprised if there weren't people trying to sign the likes of Michael Cooper and
05:46some of the others. It will probably be the case that they have to maybe lose one or two,
05:52if not for financial reasons then because of the ambition of those players. But if you can
05:56keep the bulk of that squad together, if you can reinvest some of the money you get in,
06:00bearing in mind the parachute payment will be cut, you won't be able to do all of it,
06:03and come back stronger, I don't see any reason why Sheffield United can't win automatic promotion
06:11next season. But right now it's a real killer to take. When you've won 94 points over the course
06:18of the season, obviously they had two of them chalked off. When you've done everything that
06:22they've done to recover from a really, really bad Premier League season and get themselves back in
06:27shape, and when you've got that close in the playoffs, record winning the semi-final, dominating
06:34the final, it is very hard to take. But as I say, the best sports people use these disappointments
06:42as a positive, and that's what Sheffield United got to do, simple as that.
06:47And Tom, what are your views on Sheffield United and how they have to go about next season from
06:53here? To be honest, I think Sheffield United fans will probably hate me saying this, but I think
06:58looking at what Leeds did last summer would be something that's really beneficial. As Stuart
07:01Wyman did in his piece the other day, there is a blueprint to follow. If you keep your cool,
07:07they will probably have to sell, but if you avoid hitting that panic button, you make sensible
07:11sign-ins, retain your faith in your philosophy, perhaps with some tweaks from learning curves over
07:16the course of the season, you'll have a really good chance. I think in the aftermath of a Wembley
07:20defeat, there is always that tendency to think that the world's caving in on you. But there is
07:26a truth in that there is a good foundation at Sheffield United. The business that they did last
07:31summer, yes, they will lose players, but I imagine a lot of the players they brought in last summer
07:35will be more than happy to have another crack at promotion. At one point, Chris Wilder kept coming
07:40back to over the course of the season, press conferences, interviews, etc. He'd always talk
07:45about the points tally, and I think he always used it to put things into context, particularly
07:50if they'd had a result that wasn't ideal. He'd always try and put things into context of,
07:54look at our tally, look at what we've amassed over the course of the season.
07:58You know, finish on 90th would have been 92, had they not had the point deduction,
08:02and a replication of that next season. You're really challenging. One thing I think I would
08:08say is I think they need to be a little bit more cutting. I think that was abundantly clear at
08:12Wembley. Over the course of the season, there were a lot of games, Sheffield United won quite
08:16narrowly. If you look back over their fixtures, there's quite a few 1-0s, 2-1s, really narrow
08:21wins. Towards the end of the season, when those fine margins didn't go their way, they did start
08:26to lose games a bit, and that's when they had that little patch where they dropped out of the
08:29top two. I feel like Wembley was almost a bit of a microcosm of their season, in a way, to give a
08:35really good side of real test to look in control for large portions and yet not take the game away
08:40from your opponents. I think it's a bit of a harsh lesson, but Sheffield United fans won't want to
08:47hear this because they'll just sort of want to feel the pain, if you like, over the next few
08:51days and weeks. But I think there's a really good foundation there, and even with player sales,
08:56like Stu pointed out, I think there was a real blueprint to follow. And I think there's reason
09:00for optimism, I really do, but they've got to be sensible and get recruitment right this summer.
09:05Yeah, I mean, we actually talked about it on last week's podcast with regards to York,
09:09you've got to take the sort of hard-nosed attitude of, you know, if you don't like
09:14losing in the player final, don't risk the playoffs next season. It's brutal, but that's
09:21kind of the way Chris Wilder is. I mean, his sort of attitude after the game was basically,
09:25you lot got to deal with this and got to get your heads around it and say that's the way of it,
09:31really. But I think there's enough characters in that dressing room that they can do that.
09:37And next, we are going to start conducting our review of the championship season,
09:43starting with Leeds United, who, I mean, there's no other way of describing it, really, have had
09:49basically an extraordinary season this year. I mean, finishing top on 100 points and being able
09:59to come back from that really sticky patch where we all thought, oh, here we go, it's all coming
10:05back again. But from your point of view, Stuart, how would you sum up Leeds United's season this
10:13year? Well, brilliant, you know, because as you mentioned, you know, 100 points, but they
10:19weren't half pushed hard by Sheffield United and by Burnley, who got 100 points and finished second,
10:24which is unprecedented in English league football. And you mentioned the sticky patch quite rightly,
10:30but let's not forget as well the difficulties at the start of the season. You know,
10:34we've talked about Sheffield United losing key players. Leeds managed to lose Gray, Somerville,
10:40Routier, plus a couple of other sort of slightly lesser likes with great respect to them,
10:46but they lost these players and became a better team through it. You know, and that's huge credit
10:52to, you know, the recruitment. Ayo Tanaka was just an incredible, I mean, you just watched him
10:59and you just couldn't help but think, how is a Premier League club in this day and age with all
11:04the scouting and the resources they've got, not found him, you know, he was playing in Germany,
11:09you know, the Kuala Lumpur second division or something. So that was a brilliant signing.
11:15You know, Meno Solomon, great on loan, Laji Ramazani in the first half of the season before
11:22he picked up his injury had a really big impact. And yet, you know, other players stepped up.
11:30Jobro sort of established himself as the number nine after last season, you know, not quite knowing
11:37what his role in that team was. Dan James continued to be brilliant, the defence continued
11:42to be brilliant, you know, Rodon was excellent. And Jadon Bogle, another inspired signing,
11:49about five million pounds for Sheffield United, easily the best right back in the division.
11:55Junior Firpo, excellent on the left. So it was a really good, it was a really good squad. It
12:00was the kind of squad you looked at and you thought on paper, you know, they should do this,
12:05but it's never that easy. And it's particularly not that easy, at least United, with all the
12:09pressures there. They did really well to ride out that period in the autumn where they lost Groff
12:16and Ampadu to injury at the same time, you know, both of their first choice central midfielders.
12:22That was what allowed Tanaka to flourish and Joe Rothfeld to be more prominent.
12:28And then again, as you said, to get over that sticky period where they were not winning
12:34games and everybody was starting to panic a bit. I think the key to that and the key to a lot of
12:39what they've done this season, just the calmness of the manager. I mean, I was there at Luton when
12:45they'd drawn again and you did think, or I did think, well, you know, it's happening again,
12:50they're having another Leeds panic, you know. You did worry about that, but he came out and,
12:58you know, he sat there and said, it wasn't even the first time in those weeks he said it,
13:03I'm 100% convinced that we'll win promotion one way or the other, you know. And you kind
13:08of looked at him and you thought, wow, that's a really bold statement. But he was proved
13:15bang on. I think they won every game from that point on, didn't they? So, yeah, tremendous character.
13:22I say they achieved what they ought to have done with those resources, but that's not to play it
13:28down by any stretch of the imagination. Every season we see teams not achieving what they
13:34should do with what they've got. Luton Town just got relegated for goodness sake. So, it needed
13:39that steadiness and that calmness of Daniel Farke to get them over the line and it was a real,
13:45really, really impressive achievement. Yeah. And Tom, what are your views that you want to
13:51add to this discussion? Yeah, to echo Stu really, and he'll have heard this a lot over the course
13:56of the season, a phrase Daniel Farke likes to use a lot in relation to Leeds is he calls them
14:01an emotional club. And that's, it's unbelievably accurate. And I was listening to Patrick Bamford
14:07talking the other day on Ben Foster's podcast and he was talking about how at Leeds the highs are
14:14really, really high when the fans are celebrating and they're in the mood. It's unbelievably high
14:19and that carries through to the players. And I think you saw that in the final weeks of the
14:23season, how particularly in those, in those games against, you know, Stoke and Bristol City,
14:27where Leeds just ran away with it. It was, you know, the energy from the stands, you know,
14:31really translates over. When the lows, when it's bad, it's bad. When Leeds fans are low,
14:37they're really low. And Elland Road can be a, Elland Road can be an unbelievable place to be
14:42and it can also be a really toxic place to be in when things are bad. You know, you've seen that
14:46over the last few years where there's been huge highs and lows. And I think, you know, for all
14:50the doubts that there were over Daniel Farker's future in the final weeks of the season, I don't
14:53think you could ever criticise the fact, criticise how he handled that emotion. You know, the word
15:00stew used was calm and that's one thing he definitely is. And I think obviously when the
15:06speculation about Farke sort of started to emerge and, you know, as happens, all these names get
15:11thrown about, you know, often pretty substantiated and, you know, immediately there's talk of,
15:16that Leeds are going to get Mourinho in. And I do think that there's so much to be said for
15:22Leeds having a manager who's very calm. And that might sound ridiculous considering that
15:26Marcelo Bielsa's name was El Loco. But I think Farke did a really good job of just managing
15:32things. I mean, sort of going back to what Bamford was saying on Ben Foster's podcast,
15:35it was a really interesting insight. Not that I'm trying to direct anyone away from this particular
15:39podcast, which is far superior. But he was talking about after the game against Swansea at home and
15:45I think Swansea equalised in the last minute to make it 2-2. There was basically a big inquest,
15:50sort of, ran by the players, not Farke, where they really got into it. A number of senior players,
15:55you know, stood up and spoke and talked about, you know, the importance of sort of keeping cool
16:00and getting on the line. And Farke was, according to Bamford, Farke wasn't, you know, particularly
16:06on board with it. He was saying, you know, doubting whether it was needed. He was sort
16:09of wanting players to keep their heads and sort of remind themselves it's the Championship and
16:13there's a lot of bumps in the road. But I think the fact that Farke is so calm, you know,
16:20it allows Leeds players to go and, you know, actually express themselves and be those big
16:27characters. You know, when the stakes are so high and that sort of familiar feeling of it all going
16:31wrong creeps in, which I imagine it will have done at Leeds, you know, it's easy to crumble. I think
16:35it's a testament to the characters. But I think that comes from Farke. I think that resilience
16:39and that ability to block out the outside noise, it comes from the manager, because the minute that
16:43the manager starts letting the inside noise in, the players definitely take notice of that. You
16:47know, you'd like to think that the players are completely cut off, but, you know, they hear
16:51things, they see things, and it's very easy to let that outside noise in. And I think the fact
16:56that Leeds didn't do that was really beneficial in the final weeks of the season. And as Stu
17:01alluded to, they didn't, this Leeds squad didn't sort of have the mercurial talent of a Sonneville
17:05or a Routier, or sort of the obvious class of an Archie Gray. But I do feel that squad was
17:10more balanced. I think Farke got the right characters, I think as well as, you know, Tanaka
17:15was obviously an unbelievable find. But I also think in certain positions, Leeds made what I
17:19would call the obvious signings. You know, Archie Gray moved on, he'd been flinning it right back.
17:24They needed a very attack-minded right back, you know, top of the championship class. And they
17:30went and signed Jadon Bogle. It was an obvious signing to me. They needed a ball-carrying
17:35midfielder who was able to play through the lines. They brought in Joe Rothwell, who, you know,
17:39what was not in any way a particularly glamorous signing when he arrived, but he did such a good
17:44job over the course of the season. And, you know, even if you go beyond that, and you look at
17:48players like Joshua Gilavoge coming in, players like Alex Cairns coming in, you know, characters
17:52for the dressing room, I think it was the most balanced Leeds squad there's been in years,
17:58in terms of sort of talent across the pitch and also character. So,
18:01yeah, obviously a fantastic season for Leeds and, you know, they've got a real opportunity to kick
18:05on now. But it's going to be challenging. We all know the massive, you know, that growing gap
18:09between the Premier League and the Championship. And, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see
18:13how they deal with that. I think there's a couple of Yorkshire clubs really who fall into the same
18:17category of extremes, you know, Bradford and Sheffield Wednesday. And it's no coincidence
18:22that Bradford have gone up with another manager who has got that calmness, and that Sheffield
18:27Wednesday's season kind of went off the roads a bit in the second half of the season, when Danny
18:31Rowe lost a bit of that call at Sheffield Wednesday. I think that's a really important
18:37point. And of course, you know, Bielsa's the exception, as he is to pretty much every rule
18:41going. But, you know, you look at the people who've won the title, the big title at Leeds
18:45United, Don Reby and Howard Wilkinson, you know, they were quite dour personalities, really.
18:51You need that steadiness, you need that calmness, and they'll definitely need it next season.
18:55Because, as Tom says, with the step up, there'll be a spell where they go, you know, five, six,
19:00seven games without winning. And there'll be a panic and there'll be calls for the manager to
19:04be sacked. And, you know, we'll have to judge it on its merits at this time about whether it's the
19:09right thing or not. But they certainly need to be cool and calm about it. But I do think
19:15they've got that foundation now with those players there. And it's just about adding a
19:22bit of that stardust that they lost last season to be up at Premier League level. But Farker,
19:28definitely just the right sort of personality, I think, to be in charge of that crazy, crazy
19:34football club. Yeah. And our next stop is Hull City, who we actually discussed a few weeks ago
19:40on this podcast with regards to where they finished this season. And I'll be honest,
19:46it was kind of disappointing on how their season went. And it was very touch and go on the final
19:53day of the season as well. Where did it all go wrong for them? And what has to improve ahead
20:00of next season? Which, let's not forget, will be with a new man at the helm, Tom.
20:07Yeah, I think it's actually a pretty common consensus now that there was a big error of
20:11judgment at Hull at the end of last season. You know, at the time, I think, Ali Khali had a fair
20:16amount of credit in the bank after what he spent in the January window. But I think over time,
20:21that decision to get rid of Liam Rosinha has only got worse and worse. That's the thing,
20:26obviously, there's only so much in golf you take away from social media. But I do feel like there
20:30was a lot of people who were, despite the fact that Rosinha had done a really good job at Hull,
20:34there were a lot of fans who understood the decision at the time. I think over time,
20:38I think perspectives have shifted a little bit. And in a summer where Jacob Reeves and Jadon
20:43Filippovic were going to move on, the manager of the appointment, particularly because of who he
20:47was replacing, needed to be a real disruptor. It had to be the right one. And, you know,
20:51Tim Walters' ideas never really translated. And then it was obviously time for another brief
20:56tenure with Ruben Sellars. Admittedly, I didn't see much of Hull under Ruben Sellars very early
21:02on against Norwich. I don't think he'd been in the post for too long. But regardless of the extent
21:08to which they were underwhelming, I think the brief that he had and the context around the
21:12appointment needs to be considered. I mean, let's be honest, he was going into a real mess.
21:17On paper, the recruitment doesn't look bad at all, but it was scattergun. I felt like it was
21:22very much that you look at the recruitment and there wasn't much of a cohesive plan. Some of
21:26the players they signed are now looking at, I don't really know how they fit into the plans.
21:30I think at times Hull were lured in by certain names, names that were being touted around as
21:35targets for rivals. And I think Hull pulled the trigger when perhaps it didn't really need to do
21:40so. There wasn't really a defined philosophy or style of play. I think the times I did watch Hull
21:45over the course of the season, whether that was early on under Tim Walter or later on under Ruben
21:50Sellars, it was sometimes difficult to decipher exactly what they were trying to do. Particularly
21:56in that game against Norwich that I mentioned in February, there was a lot going down Joe
22:00Gellhart down the right-hand side. But other than get the ball to Gellhart and Louis Barry,
22:04who was on the other flank that day, and try and sort of drive into the box, there wasn't
22:08much of a plan other than that. And to compete in the Championship, there has got to be a little
22:13bit more than get it to the winners. It's a very simplistic plan. And I'm inclined to say that
22:18Hull had been pretty brutal again, getting rid of Sellars. Ilya Khali is obviously an owner that
22:23is very confident in his convictions. We spoke about not listening to outside noise in relation
22:29to Leeds. And Ilya Khali, I think it falls into that category of he's very much his own man,
22:34makes his own decisions. He's not too easily swayed. And I think only time will tell whether
22:39he has the knowledge and the judgment to get it right this time. But I think in terms of the sort
22:45of goodwill he'll get from fans, I think this appointment and how they approach next season,
22:50it will be very, very definitive for his tenure as an owner because he's made mistakes and Hull
22:56have gone backwards over the last 12 months after showing some real promise. And they're now in a
23:01position where he's got to win the fans back over. And yeah, there's been a lot of sort of hush-hush
23:07in relation to this managerial appointment. He's been very coy and very sort of dismissive of a
23:12lot of the names that have been linked. But yeah, obviously at the time of recording, we don't know
23:16who's got that job, whether we know when it comes out, we don't know. But yeah, it'll be very,
23:21very interesting. But he's got a lot of faith to win back over from the fans now.
23:26I just think pre-season is absolutely crucial. I think there's two different jobs as a manager.
23:32There's a manager coming in with a pre-season. There's a manager coming in, as Sayes did. You
23:37come in pre-season, it's all about setting out that philosophy, what Tom talked about,
23:41that way of playing, getting the fitness into the players and what have you.
23:45You come in mid-season, it's a bit about making the most of what you've inherited,
23:52finding the best way of playing for those players, cutting a few corners sometimes,
23:57just getting through to the next pre-season. And pre-season, I think, was where it all went
24:03wrong. I mean, as Tom says, the decision to sack Rossini was just wrong. I think everybody,
24:10possibly Barrage and Illajali, accepts that now. But I thought as well, I thought the appointment
24:17of Tim Valter was the wrong one too. You look at his record, he managed Hamburg, who are a huge
24:25club historically, and get huge crowds even nowadays. He wasn't able to get them out of
24:30the division playing this brand of football. But at the same time, he was set up to fail
24:36because they had this mass clear-out before he arrived. They didn't get new players in time for
24:42that pre-season. So they're playing catch-up from the start and they had a lot of injuries.
24:49How many are directly related, we'll never know. But you have a poor pre-season,
24:54you get a lot of injuries. It's the way it is. So this season, I say, it looks as we're talking
25:00now, it's probably by the time a lot of people are listening to this podcast, they might even
25:05know who the new manager is. It feels like it's getting close and they certainly want it to be
25:11close. But getting the manager in is not the end of it. They need to really get a rig along
25:17on with signings. In fairness, they should be in a better position to do that than they were
25:22last season. They've got Martin Hodgin as head of recruitment. Jared Dublin only came in,
25:28I think, after the window last season. So the ducks are in a line to do things a bit better.
25:33Then when they do it, as Tom says, they've got to be a bit more clear-minded about it,
25:37a bit more pragmatic. I always feel under Oliver Jarley, it's always been about signing number 10s
25:43and attacking midfield players and just lumping them all together. Signings like Charlie Hughes
25:50really leap out because it's so rarely they actually spend money on a good defender.
25:56They need to have that balance around the squad, not just wingers and number 10s.
26:01You know, they need a centre-forward for starters. Last season they went into the season without
26:07really a proper centre-forward. They had Chris Bedia and Mason Burstow, who's manager, seemed
26:12to decide he was more of a winger. But if you don't have somebody to finish off the chances,
26:16it doesn't matter how many chances you make. If you don't have a defence that can keep them out,
26:21you need to score even more. So there just needs to be a bit more clarity, but more than anything,
26:28a bit more coolness when things go wrong. Because, again, things will go wrong,
26:35but it's about finding a manager that you believe in and then giving him the time and the patience
26:41to do the job. I think that's where they went wrong with Rossignol and that's where they went
26:44wrong with Sayers. He needs to learn from his lessons because, having been a very, very popular
26:52at the start, he is losing a lot of credibility with a lot of old fans and obviously that's
26:58not in anyone's interest that that continues.
27:02And next we turn to Shuffled United who, as discussed earlier on, just fell short
27:09of gaining promotion this year. So overall, how would you assess their season which,
27:15for the most part, was practically like a boxing match between themselves and
27:18Leeds United for the top spot, Stuart?
27:21Yeah, well, I think in terms of Shuffled United, I think back to... I saw them in the final game
27:27of pre-season at Huddersfield and it was a one-all draw and you just looked at it and you thought,
27:36Shuffled United are so woefully underprepared for this new season. So the bench that day was
27:43Blackert, Faxon, Boyes, Sasnaukis, Sashtev, One, and Hampson. All young lads who haven't played
27:54much this season. Sidipek, who has done really well, Trustee and Samane, who were about to leave,
28:01and Louis Marsh, who again falls into that category of the young players. And you had people
28:07like Adam Davies in goal and Sariki, who has really surprised me with the brilliant improvement
28:15he's made this season, but had just been out on loan at Rotherham and struggled. And you just
28:19looked at that and that looked like the team sheet from the first game of pre-season, not
28:23the last game. And Chris Wilder afterwards, he bit his tongue in terms of what he said,
28:30but you could see how frustrated he was that they hadn't got a move on with their transfer
28:34business, that sort of thing I was talking about a whole minute ago. So you could easily have seen
28:39them having a whole start to the season, but in fairness, they got into gear pretty quickly after
28:46that. I mean, Michael Cooper, I think, came in three games into the season, but a couple came in
28:51even in time for the first game at Preston and he very, very quickly got them in the right
28:56headspace, the right organisation to hit the ground running. And I think
29:03context is everything with Sheffield United's season and the big context of Sheffield
29:09United's season is Luton Town. It's been the theme of the last few months about how
29:15difficult it is for teams going up to the Premier League and conversely how easy it is for teams
29:20coming down with parachute payments, but Luton show the reality of that. If you get
29:26things wrong and you've got that negative mentality and momentum, then things can go
29:33badly wrong. And the fact that Wilder was in charge for those last six months,
29:38which were dreadful, the whole season was dreadful under the Premier League,
29:42things could easily have drifted. And I certainly didn't go into the season expecting them to get
29:47relegated at Luton, but I did think they might struggle to make the playoffs just because of
29:54the whole negativity around the place. So to have had such a good season, obviously it doesn't feel
29:59like an achievement when you've just lost at Wembley in those circumstances, but it really,
30:03really is. They've done really well to make a fight of it. As I say, in the longer term,
30:11it has to be the first step towards them going up automatically next season, that's the key.
30:16And Tom, your views on Sheffield United?
30:20Yeah, I think people sort of underestimate, well, certainly people outside of Sheffield United,
30:25underestimate just how flat the feeling was around that club after the last Premier League season.
30:31And bearing in mind that their last season in the Premier League was the 2020-2021 season,
30:36which was not equally bleak, but not much better either. A lot of narrow defeats that season,
30:44but it still couldn't buy a win and finish bottom and went down. So that was two seasons
30:50in the Premier League that had both finished with them at rock bottom and such a low feeling.
30:55And a lot of bruised egos, more importantly, because particularly in Sheffield United squad,
30:59there's a lot of players, if you look on paper, that I think if you ask them,
31:03do you see yourself as a Premier League player? I think there's a fair amount that would put
31:06their hand up and say yes. However, their performances for Sheffield United in the
31:11Premier League are very much suggested otherwise. So as well as, you know, if you take out the
31:16players that left in the aftermath of the relegation, which was always going to be the case,
31:20it always happens. Even just from a strictly personal point of view, you know, take away
31:24the footballer aspect. Chris Wilder essentially had to pick players up off the floor. He was tasked
31:30with, you know, taking these players who hadn't hit the heights that they thought they were
31:34capable of hitting and, you know, and resetting them almost. And it's really not easy to do.
31:40And the Luton example is a really good one because, and this shows how utterly clueless I am,
31:45I remember when Luton went up to the Premier League, you know, very much against the odds.
31:49And I looked at their recruitment when they got into the top flight. And my sort of take on that
31:54recruitment was that they were signing players who may be able to put it in the Premier League,
31:58and if not, would be real assets in the championship. You know, like players like
32:02Thierdozet or Benet come to mind, players who it didn't seem like obvious Premier League signings.
32:07I in my very naive head thought they would be really clever. I thought them signing players
32:12who, yeah, because I thought they would avoid that thing where, you know, you go down and you
32:16have this mass exodus and the shark circle and they pick you off and they take all your best
32:21players. I thought Luton signing players who were essentially top-end championship players would
32:25make them ready-made for relegation, which sounds like a really negative way of looking at it. But
32:30in terms of financial security and sort of, you know, planning for the fact that,
32:34with all due respect to Luton town and their chances of signing were always going to be
32:39pretty slim. I thought they would be really clever. It always didn't work out like that.
32:44But I think, yeah, I think Luton does put Sheffield United's season into context.
32:49I think when people look at teams coming down from the Premier League, particularly in recent
32:53years, they'll use the phrase parachute payments and almost make that the equivalent of a cheat
32:59code in their heads, which it never is. It's obviously a massive benefit. And for all the
33:03prayers we've thrown at Leeds, they've not exactly been financially hard done by of late.
33:08But it is tough to adapt to life back in the championship. And I think that, you know,
33:12and as Stu alluded to, it's really difficult to see any positives in the days after Wembley.
33:17There will be people taking to social media and making comments that they will be quickly
33:21deleting next week. It's just the nature of the beast. But yeah, I think in the context,
33:26I think when it does settle, this season that Sheffield United had will be looked back on as
33:31a real foundation that they can build on. And let's now focus on Sheffield Wednesday,
33:39who may not have had the best of seasons this year. However, when you compare this year to
33:44last season, you have to admit there has been some improvement this time around.
33:49What were your thoughts on how the Owls performed, Tom?
33:53Well, it was, yeah, you're right in saying it was a massive improvement. And it had to be,
33:57because I think based on the previous season, particularly how they were early on in the
34:02campaign under Sisko Munoz, it couldn't have got any worse than it was. I've watched a lot of
34:07championship football and Wednesday under Munoz in the early stages of the 2023-24 season, there
34:13weren't many sides that I've seen that looked more disjointed and ill-prepared. But for all
34:20the improvement that Wednesday have made, I think it's just a really sad situation at the moment.
34:25You've got this incredibly gifted manager in Danny Roll who he has, and one of the reasons I
34:30think he's so highly rated is, you know, some people with less knowledge who have seen Wednesday
34:35a little bit less might look and say, oh, well, you know, yeah, he kept them up and then he got
34:38them to sort of mid-table and they might not see it as this spectacular achievement. But I think
34:43that the real test of a manager, you know, there's a lot of managers that are very good at,
34:47you know, solid tacticians, they're very good at working with good players. But to be able to go
34:53in and take a squad of players, primarily players that you wouldn't look at as top-end
34:59championship players, you know, there's a lot of what I would describe as bottom-end
35:03championship top-end league one players in that squad, and to make them compete and
35:08threaten a playoff push is a real testament to how good a role it is at developing individuals.
35:14But you've got this situation now, you've got this massively talented manager, huge club,
35:18fantastic fan base. And yet at the top, you've got a hierarchy that just doesn't seem capable
35:23of pushing the club forward. And I do think, obviously, very much remains to be seen what
35:29happens with Wednesday over the course of the next few weeks and months. But I think in years
35:32to come, this particular period in the club's history will be reflected on as a real missed
35:37opportunity. I think particularly if Wednesday don't go on to prosper and don't go on to, you
35:42know, bounce back from this and push on, I think if they go back to sort of, you know, down at the
35:47bottom of the championship, maybe back in league one, if they start to struggle, I think it will
35:52constantly be reflected on as a missed opportunity. And I think it's become incredibly apparent over
35:56the last few weeks that Danny Roll hasn't been sold on a long-term future at Sheffield Wednesday.
36:02I think January is a great example of the perils of not winning over a talented manager.
36:06There's, you know, people talk about managers, you know, trying to get jobs, but you know,
36:10sometimes it works the other way. You've got to sell a project to your manager,
36:15particularly if they're very highly rated, and you've got to convince them that this is the club
36:19that they need to carry on their managerial career at. And you look at January, Wednesday
36:24signed Stuart Armstrong, Riola Tuesday on short-term deals, brought in Ibrahim Sassoko on loan.
36:30It's a really poor window, and obviously marred by that mid-window breakdown in communication that
36:35they had. But the one thing that sort of stuck in my head after that transfer window is,
36:39would Wednesday have done those types of deals, had Roll been convinced that he had a long-term
36:45future at Wednesday? You know, it was very short-term thinking, you know, a loan and two
36:50short-term agreements. I doubt it. And I felt like it was a bit of a hark back to those pre-director
36:56of football days, where every manager had a club that would sort of, you know, every club had a
37:00manager that would do, you know, lead on the recruitment completely. And every time they got
37:04sacked on, they would have to be a big overhaul because the manager was coming in to deal with
37:09someone else's squad. And now all this speculation about Roll is doing absolutely no one any good.
37:15You know, it's not doing Wednesday any good. It's not doing the fans any good. It's not doing him
37:18any good. It does appear there are reasons that a clean break's not being possible. But I do feel
37:23like it could have been handled with a little bit more sort of subtlety and respect, I would say,
37:27as well. And I appreciate this might sound dramatic, but it almost feels insulting to the job
37:32itself. You know, manager of Sheffield Wednesday is a prestigious job. It's a massive football club.
37:38I don't think it sends a great message when the holder of that position is essentially, you know,
37:43doing a media tour, you know, talking about his tenure in the past tense on an occasion and
37:50speaking very openly about how we'd love this job and that job. It's just a really sad position
37:56all round. And like I say, I just can't help but feel like in years to come, Wednesday will look
38:01back on these two years and it will be the most, unless there's a huge significant turnaround,
38:06it will be the most damning indictment of Def on Chancery's time as owner because
38:10he got given a reprieve essentially. I think Role was a bit of a magic medicine for Chancery. It was
38:17a real chance for him to turn the club around. And it's just, it looks like, obviously, we don't
38:22know for sure what's going to happen, but I'd be stunned if Role's the Wednesday manager in a month
38:28or two. The worst thing if he was, because he's clearly so disillusioned, as we've seen by the
38:32second half of the season. And, you know, I think it's been a good season for Sheffield Wednesday.
38:37It's six years since they finished in the top half of the championship, but the phrase Tom
38:42kept using is exactly the right one. It was a missed opportunity. You know, you imagine,
38:47we talked about Ilha Jali before, you imagine if Ilha Jali had been in that position in January,
38:51you know, you look at what Sheffield United did buying Tom Cameron, they would have thrown money
38:55at that squad to really give it a go. Because there was a squad there that was not quite good
39:01enough for the playoffs, but only a couple of decent signings away from being there.
39:06And if they just pushed the boat out, I mean, the flip side, of course, is that
39:10Chancero has got into trouble in the past by spending money he doesn't have. So you do have
39:14to cut in that bit of slack. You don't want to, you know, bet the farm on making the playoffs,
39:19because as we've seen with other clubs in that city, even if you're the best team in the playoffs,
39:24you don't necessarily go up. But it was about more than just making the playoffs. It was about
39:29sending a signal to Danny Rowe that, look, we are an ambitious club. You can achieve your
39:34ambitions with us. And that period in January just absolutely killed them. And they were both to
39:40blame. You know, they both should have been more grown up about it. They both should have spoken
39:44to each other earlier, but it turned a month-long transfer window into a transfer window of a few
39:50days. You know, they did well to get Shea Charles back after Southampton tried to sort of put them
39:56over a barrel. But the Armstrong and Sissoko signings were very late in the day. I have to say
40:03actually came in after the deadline because he was a free agent. He was just a sort of fallback
40:09signing with the greatest of respect for him. And yeah, you just felt like it was almost there.
40:16It just added those extra pieces. I mean, all season long, they didn't win three games on the
40:21trot. So they didn't have that sort of consistency you need. But as I say, you felt the makings of it
40:28was there. And now I say they've lost a really good manager. Whether he actually leaves or stays,
40:35they've lost a really good manager because that clearly infected the whole squad in the second
40:40half of the season. You could just see, you know, when he gets disillusioned like that and clearly,
40:46you know, he wanted the opportunity to go to Southampton, whether he feels like he's judged
40:51a bullet now or not, I don't know. But he's obviously got itchy feet to move on. It's in
40:56everyone's best interest that he moves on. Amnesty moves on quickly. But the tragedy for Sheffield
41:02Wednesday, well, tragedy is too strong a word, but the disappointment for Sheffield Wednesday
41:06is that because of the nature of everything, they have to wait for someone else to make the move.
41:11They in turn might be waiting for someone else to make the move for their manager or
41:16that sort of thing. They're at the back of the chain. But they know this is coming down the road
41:21and the sooner it comes down the road, the sooner they can get on with things, make those plans that
41:26I said were lacking at Hull City last pre-season. That could be the story of Sheffield Wednesday's
41:32pre-season, really. They need that figureheading. They need that direction. They need those signings.
41:38And I do worry that they are going to be starting so far on the back foot that we,
41:43I mean, hopefully not to that extent, but that we might see the sort of start to the season
41:48that we saw in the Munoz. I really hope not because there's been so much achieved.
41:57But it's good to see, and a little bit ironic for Roald, to see that
42:01Chancery's finally started investing in the training pitches and the academy and that
42:05sort of thing. They need that to move forward. But the same more than anything else, as Tom said,
42:10this great man has just fallen into their lap and they've basically blown it through
42:15to Chancery's attitude. And it's kind of been downhill from there, unfortunately.
42:21And finally for this week, we look at Middlesbrough, who just missed out on a place
42:25in the playoffs following a late dip in form as a season drew to a close. What did you make of
42:31their season and where do they have to improve as they go into next season, Stuart?
42:36Yeah, I mean, I know what you mean about a late dip in form because they did sort of tantalise us
42:41at one point that they might be able to get into the place, but they never really found form all
42:46season. Tom mentions about how lots of people fancied Luton to do well. I was certainly in
42:53the same boat. They had looked as though they'd set themselves up to Urio. Middlesbrough looked
42:56well set up to do well as well. But the story of the season, they just weren't ruthless enough
43:04in terms of putting chances away. You know, you'd see them regularly dominate games and make lots
43:08of chances, not make it count. And then too many daft goals conceded at the other end. And obviously
43:13that's the worst possible combination, really. I think it was only, you know, mentioned about
43:19Sheffield Wednesday, I think it was only one time last season when Middlesbrough won three games on
43:22the trot. You know, they just, they always hinted at better, but they never quite got there. And,
43:29you know, we wait and see. They've done their sort of fashionable thing and are carrying out
43:35a review of the season, you know, as you're supposed to do nowadays. And if it has been
43:40completed, we certainly haven't heard anything about it, but the longer it goes on, the more
43:44it looks like Michael Carrick's going to get another chance. And you'd have to say that probably
43:49at 23 clubs in the championship, he wouldn't get another chance. But Steve Gibson's Middlesbrough,
43:57I say that not as a criticism, I think that's a very good thing. Too often, clubs just panic at
44:05the first sign of a downturn and don't give managers a chance to learn from their mistakes.
44:09But if Carrick is the manager next season, he will have to show he's learned from his mistakes.
44:14He will have to start the season well, I think, or he'll be under serious pressure.
44:21And he needs to get a proper number nine. He talks about hall signing all sorts of number 10s.
44:26Middlesbrough love a number 10 or a false nine or all this sort of thing. They just need a good,
44:30old-fashioned, proper stand up there. Wait for the chances to come your way and stick them in
44:35the back of the net to centre forward. And they need a more reliable defence. You know,
44:42it's a huge credit to Johnny Howson that he was the sort of first-choice centre-back for
44:47large parts of the season, or the end of the season, I should say. But you shouldn't be that
44:52dependent on a midfielder in his late 30s to prop up your defence. They need to really get that
45:02sorted out, really get some good recruitment and go again. And yeah, as I say, the pressure will
45:10be on Carrick. But I'll be pleased if he is in the dugout for the first game of next season,
45:16because I do think he's shown enough, particularly in that first season, but even in the second,
45:21that he's not a million miles away. But he needs to show that he can make that next step.
45:26I think the onus is on him. Yeah.
45:28Yeah, I do too. I think for the sake of football, I think it'll be a really good,
45:35if Bournemouth can kick on under Carrick and like I say, learn from their mistakes,
45:38it'll be a really good case study that you'd like to think some other club owners would look at.
45:44It's very tiresome how quick football club owners are to part with managers. And I think
45:50Steve Gibson deserves a lot of credit, whether that decision is going down well at the moment
45:55or not. I think he deserves credit for keeping faith in a manager who, let's be honest, is still
46:00very early on in his managerial career. But I think if Middlesbrough can go on and challenge
46:05for promotion, potentially get promoted, I think it could be a good thing for the Championship and
46:11for football in England, because it'll show that there are examples of things not going particularly
46:17swimmingly, keeping the faith and getting what you want in the end. But I know it's been a lot
46:22frustrating directly towards Carrick. I do understand why. I think as a young manager,
46:26he's had some really steep learning curves. But I think that could bode well for him next season
46:30for Middlesbrough. I think in terms of the autopsy of their season, recruitment is quite clearly a
46:35big point of contention. I mean, Stu mentioned the striker situation and that sale of Emmanuel
46:42Latte-Latte and then bringing in Kelechi Iheanacho in the winter window, it was disastrous.
46:47They in no way replaced the goals that Latte-Latte left with. Ryan Giles was courted
46:54pretty unnecessarily in the end, given Aylinn Junior was to come in. Not replacing Matt Clark
47:00and obviously ended up in that position where Johnny Howsam was filling in at centre-half was
47:04again disastrous. It was criminal. And then there was also the loss of Ben Doak to injury
47:08to contend with, which was absolutely huge. When you look at that track record, I don't
47:12think it's inaccurate to say that Middlesbrough almost set fire to their own chances of promotion
47:16with some really questionable squad planning, some decisions that they made. On the pitch,
47:21obviously they have this reputation as ballplayers and managers would always talk about them as a
47:25side that would play against you. They got a lot of praise from opposition managers for that.
47:30As admirable as that may be, when you come up against certain sides, it can become a problem.
47:35I remember in November, it was a Wednesday night game. I was speaking to some Leeds fans before.
47:41Leeds played Borough at Ellen Road. Bear in mind, this was against the backdrop that Middlesbrough
47:46battered Leeds in the Carabao Cup at Ellen Road a couple of months prior. But Leeds fans were
47:50licking their lips at the prospect of that Middlesbrough game, purely because Leeds were
47:54in this position where they'd been winning and ticking over, but they'd had this really
47:58frustrating run of games where clubs were going to Ellen Road in particular and spoiling,
48:02essentially, and not looking to play against them, looking to frustrate.
48:09It was a weird time around Ellen Road, actually, at that period, because even though Leeds kept
48:13winning and were doing well and had a strong position in the league table, there was a lot
48:16of frustration because Leeds weren't breaking down these sides that were sitting in with really
48:21rigid banks. So there was excitement when Borough came and played Ellen Road. From a Middlesbrough
48:26perspective, that shouldn't be the case. You shouldn't be in a position where, you know,
48:31Cubs fans are picking you out as a fixture of all, you know, that they'll be a good side to
48:35play against. For them to be able to match the big boys when it comes to playing, they need to
48:39be much less passive, a lot more incisive. You know, it was far too patient at times, I thought,
48:45with Middlesbrough's sort of build-up. You know, at the top end of the championship, more often
48:51than not, pretty patterns aren't enough. You'll play sides who have those patterns and the ability
48:56to hurt you. I think Leeds are a good example of that. And the stat that I was reading this morning,
49:01actually, which I thought was really interesting, that on 18 occasions Middlesbrough conceded the
49:06first goal of the game. They came back to win only twice, you know, losing on 13 occasions. It does
49:13allude to a little bit of a sort of a soft underbelly almost. And I think that's something
49:20that really needs to be worked on. I think that, again, I've used the word foundations a couple of
49:25times this episode, and I think Middlesbrough, there are foundations there. And I really hope,
49:29like I say, for the sake of football, that they get built upon. But yeah, it's all about Carrick
49:33learning from his mistakes and addressing a lot of problems that essentially stopped a good side
49:38challenge from promotion this slash last season. Yeah, and just to be clear, all those problems
49:44Tom's talked about, they're all on Carrick. You know, he hasn't been good enough this season, but
49:50you know, learning from mistakes is what it's all about. You know, you can pick numerous great
49:55managers who've had a season or a few seasons where they haven't been good enough. The point is,
50:00you learn from it. And in Carrick's case, you know, it comes across certainly to the media as a bit too
50:06relaxed and wishy-washy. This is the way we play. I'm not panicked about this. You know,
50:11you hope he's harder with the players, but he needs to be. He doesn't want to be, you know,
50:16another Russell Martin who plays great football. But as Tom says, it is a soft touch and he is that
50:22at the moment. But I say, I applaud the fact that he's given the chance to learn from it.
50:27He can't waste it because I say, if he does, if these problems reoccur next season and they start
50:33badly, it will be his fault and he will deserve the sack. But right now, I think I say he's earned
50:40the right and Middlesbrough have shown the patience to build on this rather than, as Tom
50:44talks about earlier, just ripping things up and starting again. Happens too often at too many
50:49clubs. And if anything, Middlesbrough are a bit guilty of going too far the other way. But you'd
50:53rather that, I think, personally, than this constant churn of managers and players.
50:59yorkshirepost.co.uk
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