- 1 year ago
- #considerthis
Malaysia is running out of space to bury its waste. With landfills overflowing and recycling rates still low, the Government is turning to Waste-to-Energy—or WTE—technology as a possible fix. At its core, WTE is a modern form of incineration: it burns waste at high temperatures but recovers the energy to generate electricity or heat. Not all waste incineration does that. But can burning trash ever be clean—or green? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Mageswari Sangaralingam, Chief Executive of Consumers' Association of Penang & Honorary Secretary of Sahabat Alam Malaysia.
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00:00Hi, welcome back to Consider This, I'm Melissa Idris.
00:13Let's continue our discussion about waste incineration, which has long been controversial.
00:20But is the solution to Malaysia's overflowing landfills waste to energy technology, or WTE,
00:28which claims to be its cleaner cousin, high-tech plants that burn rubbish while generating electricity?
00:36Well, let's ask Magiswari Sangarelingam, who is the Chief Executive of the Consumer Association of Penang,
00:43Consumers Association of Penang, and the Honorary Secretary of Sahabat Alam Malaysia.
00:49Magis, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining me today.
00:53You have been quite vocal in your opposition to incinerators before.
00:58As well as WTE plants.
01:00Can I just get you, at the start of our conversation, to maybe lay out some of the core reasons
01:04why you think these technologies are harmful or misguided for Malaysia?
01:11What are your thoughts on waste incineration and other burn technologies?
01:16Yeah, okay. So, we in Sahabat Alam Malaysia and also the Consumers Association of Penang,
01:21we have been long campaigning against waste incineration and also other burn technologies.
01:27By incinerating, we are actually burning away valuable resources that can otherwise be composted or recycled.
01:34So, incinerators, sometimes they use the term thermal treatment facilities.
01:41They involve various processes such as combustion or pyrolysis, plasma arc, gasification.
01:49They use all this jargon, but it is essentially burning.
01:53And, of course, the proponents will claim that it will make our waste problems disappear.
01:57However, burning or incineration does not miraculously make your waste disappear.
02:05There will be byproducts from the burning process.
02:08So, the process of incineration transforms the waste that is fed into it into other forms of waste,
02:13such as ash that is actually toxic, air emissions that are hazardous,
02:17and it also contributes to waste water pollution.
02:20And incinerators, they are known to produce toxic emissions,
02:25including dioxins, furans, which are carcinogenic, mercury, other heavy metals,
02:32particulate metals, you know, it's like small, fine particulate metals,
02:36which of all these toxic emissions can cause cancer and other health problems.
02:41So, the greenhouse gases emitted from the incinerators, they also contribute to climate change.
02:45So, when communities started protesting incinerator projects, even in Malaysia,
02:52the technology proponents started introducing waste-to-energy facilities.
02:56So, right now, WTE, or these waste-to-energy facilities,
03:00are being aggressively promoted in Malaysia and also other countries in the region.
03:04And they promise that they can produce energy during the incineration process.
03:10However, mixed waste, like in our region, is highly inefficient fuel,
03:14due to the low calorific value of the waste.
03:18Incinerators are only able to generate small amounts of energy
03:21while destroying large amounts of valuable materials.
03:25So, we are members of Global Alliance for Incinator Alternatives.
03:30So, a detailed analysis by Gaia,
03:32it shows that incinerators waste more energy than they produce.
03:36This is also primarily because what is incinerated or burnt,
03:40it has to be replaced by new products.
03:43So, in summary, incinerators are massive waste of energy.
03:48Okay.
03:49So, I want to ask you to respond to some of the claims
03:54that proponents of WTE technology have laid out.
03:59They say that, well, these are new generation incinerators.
04:03This is high technology, new technology,
04:07and that all the byproducts that you talked about,
04:10the dioxins, the fly ash, the flue gas,
04:13all of that can be managed and mitigated
04:16through this new cleaner technology,
04:19and it can be regulated,
04:22emissions can be regulated through thorough monitoring and enforcement.
04:26How would you respond to all of those claims that actually...
04:32So, they're claiming that your objection is based on technology
04:35from two or three or four, even four decades ago,
04:39that today's technology is better and safer and cleaner.
04:43How would you respond?
04:44Yeah, of course, you know, they want to sell their technology, right?
04:48So, they claim that these newer waste-incinator technologies,
04:52they claim to be cleaner with less environmental impact.
04:55But one thing for sure, even the most advanced incinerators,
04:59they will still release volumes of pollutants
05:01that will contaminate our oil, our soil, our air, our water.
05:07So, many of these pollutants also enter our food supply
05:10and concentrate up through the food chain.
05:13So, as they were mentioning about the new waste-incinerators,
05:15a public health impact report
05:17of modern incinerators in the European Union.
05:21They found that it is a major source
05:25of ultra-fine particulate emissions.
05:27Just now, I've already explained to you
05:30in terms of the particulate matters,
05:33it will also cause health impacts.
05:37So, besides the air emissions,
05:39the pollutants that are produced are also in the form of ash.
05:42So, these pollutants, they are captured by air-filtering devices
05:47in the incinerator.
05:50It is transferred to by-products such as fly ash,
05:53bottom ash, boiler ash,
05:56there's slag, wastewater treatment, sludge.
05:59This is all released into the environment.
06:02So, it's just not emissions,
06:04it's also all the other by-products.
06:05So, I was just reading the environmental impact assessment report
06:09of a new WTE plants,
06:12actually a few WTE plants,
06:14which will be built in Rawang.
06:16And what they have planned
06:18is this fly ash and bottom ash
06:20they're going to send to semen plants to be burned.
06:24So, you see, besides the waste emissions,
06:27the emissions from the insulators,
06:30it is also going into semen plants,
06:32and there will be also more emissions.
06:36So, all this,
06:38also another issue is this upgraded,
06:40supposedly new generation based to energy facilities,
06:45they actually require regular service
06:48to maintain the emission levels.
06:50So, this will increase the cost of maintenance.
06:53So, these are some of the issues that we have to look into.
06:56Okay, but if we don't burn our waste,
07:00we still have the issue of our landfills overflowing up to,
07:04you know, reaching capacity.
07:06If we don't incinerate
07:09or we don't adopt WTE technology,
07:12then how do we sustainably manage
07:15our growing waste crisis here in Malaysia?
07:20Yeah, so this is the problem, yeah?
07:24Because all this waste management policies
07:26and programs or whatever they have come up with,
07:29they are all oriented around the assumption
07:31that waste is inevitable.
07:33So, we need to move away from this thinking and approach.
07:37So, reduction in waste generation should be a priority.
07:41So, there is need to redirect the millions of dollars
07:44that they are planning to spend on
07:47to install insulation systems
07:49into more effective,
07:53like in terms of waste prevention,
07:55reduction, and zero waste systems.
07:57So, these zero waste systems actually can maximise
08:00both return on investment
08:01and also economic development opportunities.
08:04Another thing in Malaysia is key is composting.
08:09Composting is key to achieving 50% of
08:12or higher diversion levels.
08:15You know, in Malaysia,
08:16almost 50% of our waste is actually wet waste
08:19and organic waste,
08:20which can be composted.
08:21So, the Malaysian government actually now needs to include
08:24separation of organic or wet waste
08:26in the mandatory waste segregation law.
08:29For the time being,
08:30this is, you know,
08:31all our food waste and organic waste
08:33are put in as general waste
08:35and only recyclables are being separated.
08:37Right?
08:38So, if we keep the organics and biodegradables
08:42out of the waste collected by the municipalities
08:46or waste management companies,
08:49we will reduce the volume of waste
08:50to be disposed and managed.
08:52But then, again, for this to occur,
08:55there has to be efficient implementation
08:56of the waste separation law
08:57with good collection system
08:59and proper infrastructure in place.
09:02Enforcement measures are also important
09:04to ensure that the waste generator
09:07complies with the law.
09:09Right.
09:10Sorry, I'm just going to interrupt you very quickly,
09:12I guess, and I wanted to ask you,
09:13I really like that you said
09:15we shouldn't assume that waste is inevitable.
09:17And that's a really powerful statement.
09:20But when we look at incineration,
09:24waste incineration and burn technologies,
09:26we often look abroad
09:28and we look at other countries
09:29that have adopted this and think,
09:31oh, wow, look at how they're managing their waste.
09:33How do you think we should move forward?
09:37Do you think we should be adopting
09:39what other countries have adopted many years ago
09:41in terms of burn technologies
09:43or invest that in reducing,
09:49reducing, reusing and recycling the three R's?
09:53Does one pay off more than the other?
09:56I'm just wondering,
09:57because capital or investment in this is finite,
10:01how do you see it?
10:03Where we should be putting our money as a country?
10:06So we should learn from the mistakes.
10:08You know, there are already a lot of reports
10:10and also scientific reports
10:11and also evidence that this waste incinerators
10:15are actually causing harm to the public health,
10:19especially the ones in the surrounding areas.
10:23So there is also other scientific evidence
10:26that zero waste is possible.
10:28It not only addresses the environmental and public health concerns
10:31that incinerators have,
10:33but it also creates more livelihood opportunities.
10:37So Malaysia should...
10:39No, we have been proposing this to the Malaysian government
10:42for decades.
10:44If they had already taken some steps,
10:46advocated for zero waste,
10:48then we would have not come to this situation.
10:51So the goal is to reduce waste generation.
10:55And if you reduce the waste generation,
10:58there's also less waste to be disposed.
11:03So what we are also saying is like consumers,
11:06we should be mindful of what we consume.
11:08Yeah, and also other countries are now already moving
11:12into like coming up with reuse systems.
11:15Yeah, so this reuse system should be promoted
11:18rather than me going on with our throwaway culture,
11:21using disposals, for example,
11:22the single-use plastics,
11:24the single-use plastic bags,
11:25and a lot of the items.
11:28Disposable diapers is another one.
11:29And also, you know, disposable sanitary pads.
11:33So there are a lot of single-use items
11:35that we are using and that we dispose.
11:37And there are actually already alternatives,
11:39whether from our traditional practices
11:42or also, you know, people are innovating
11:45and coming up with a lot of, you know,
11:47alternatives, which is safer.
11:50So, and we are also advocating for producers
11:54to be accountable of the products
11:58that they are producing.
11:59So they need to take responsibility
12:00of their products and the packaging,
12:02as well as redesign and innovate
12:04better materials and systems.
12:06So if all these come together,
12:09then we would have an opportunity
12:11to actually reduce waste generation.
12:15Magis, thank you so much
12:16for speaking with me today.
12:18I appreciate you providing your insights
12:20and your perspective.
12:22That was Magis Wari Sanggara Lingam
12:24from Consumers Association of Penang
12:26and Sahabat Alam Malaysia
12:28wrapping up this episode of Consider This.
12:31I'm Melissa Idris signing off for the evening.
12:33Thank you so much for watching.
12:35Good night.
12:35Good night.
12:35Good night.
12:40Good night.
12:42Good night.
12:42Good night.