00:00I don't think it was certainly expected, Joe, it was a bit of a kind of, hey, is this actually
00:06happening? Because the general thought was there was a bit of like brinkmanship that
00:09was on play here, that the National Party was threatening to walk away, but realistically
00:13they need each other to get to government. So it's kind of like, wait, you're actually
00:16going apart, given, like, it's going to have consequences, like even just take home pay
00:20for the Nationals is going to drop for a bunch of them. But there it is, they're willing
00:24to walk away and we'll see how long it lasts.
00:26So what triggered the split?
00:27Yeah, so we've seen the really sad element that's hung over these negotiations between
00:32David Littleproud and Susan Lee, the National Leader and the Liberal Party leader, is the
00:37death of Susan Lee's mother. It meant Susan Lee travelled to Albury at the end of last week
00:41and was there during the weekend. And there were some negotiations between Susan Lee and
00:45David Littleproud. But ultimately the National Party went into those negotiations and what
00:50you would typically see is the two leaders come together, work out how many seats each
00:55side would have on the front bench, and then work out the portfolios. We knew that the
00:59Nationals wanted an economic portfolio as added, maybe even something, I mean, they'd say Treasury,
01:04but maybe even finance as one that they would willingly accept. But it came with an extra caveat
01:09this time. There were four policy areas that the National Party was putting forward that it
01:13argues it fought for in the last term of opposition and it wanted them carried forward. This was things
01:19like divestiture powers for the supermarkets to break them up if there's any competitive
01:24behaviour, a universal service obligation, which means you get a landline to all households
01:29across the country. Nuclear energy, keeping the commitment. Now, it could have been just
01:35getting rid of the moratorium. It wasn't necessarily saying that the state would have all the four
01:41facilities and then also keeping a future fund for regional infrastructure. The added element
01:47that was just clearly a bridge too far for the Liberal Party was giving the national members
01:53who would sit in the shadow cabinet where policy decided and thrashed out the ability to walk out
01:58of that room and basically trash talk what it is that they've just heard or even vote against
02:02it. That clearly breaks down any convention you would typically see. David Littleproud is essentially
02:07saying that this is now a time for his party to go and work through its policies and put them forward
02:13and potentially come back with the Liberals at a future time. Here's David Littleproud.
02:18The door is still open in that we do have time to sort this out and allow the Liberal Party,
02:23who are going under a process of self-reflection of their party. Over the last two elections,
02:30they've lost over 30 seats. They're going to do that and I think this creates an environment
02:34for them to do that. But we don't want to walk away from the things that are important. I don't
02:38want to have three years of trying to go back and fight and to look backwards. I want to look forward.
02:43I want to look forward and build on those policy foundation stones and to go and listen and
02:48understand to regional Australians what more they want us to do. And Brett, do you think this makes
02:53sense or not for the Nats? Because obviously if they were going to be talking through these policy
02:59positions over the next several weeks, it was going to be really divisive because there are
03:04Nats with really strong views who probably weren't going to be able to stay quiet. And it kind of makes
03:10sense for them to be apart for a while while they sort themselves out. Yeah, I mean, it's a difficult
03:16situation where it's three years until the next election. So what happens between now and three
03:21years time, who even knows? And it's very likely the parties will come closer together. So there is this
03:25possibility where they can work out, get their ducks in a row. But if it is, you've got these core
03:29problems that the National Party is unwilling to back away from, it does create, it does kick the
03:35problem down the road, essentially, of like, when you will at some point work out what the policy will
03:40be in terms of nuclear energy. Now, that might be an easy one to fix. And the broader National Party
03:45demands might be easy ones with which the Liberal Party is willing to get on board. But I suspect this
03:50idea that you could go into the shadow cabinet and then not have cabinet solidarity will be a real
03:55point of tension in whatever a new look opposition could be. And so what's Susan Lee's take on this?
04:01Well, it's a real test of her leadership right in the in the first days. We saw how fractured
04:05parts of the Liberal Party is. She got across the line by by four votes. If Susan Lee had have just
04:10capitulated to the Nationals right from the start, you imagine that makes it a really difficult time
04:14for her to retain that leadership when there's no shortage of people pointing out that after when
04:19July rolls around, the party room potentially becomes a bit more in favour of Angus Taylor. But it also
04:25creates an opportunity for Susan Lee and Liberals who, not saying Susan Lee here, Liberals who feel
04:31that the tail has been wagging the dog for a long time here, that it's the Liberal Party that has been
04:36faring worst out of the coalition because they've been losing their heartland seats. And that Liberals
04:41can work out what they stand for and then go forward as the major party here within the coalition.
04:46And if the National Party wants to get on board closer to the election, then they're willing to have that
04:50conversation then. But for the time being, they need to reconnect with their base. Here is Susan Lee.
04:55Susan Lee It is disappointing
04:58that the National Party has decided today to leave the coalition. But the most important thing I want
05:04to say is this. The Nationals' door remains open and our door remains open. And we look forward with
05:12optimism to rejoining at some point in the future. And as David and I left today, we agreed that he
05:20and I would continue to meet regularly and to talk, because we have much in common. And we both have
05:26a big job to do to take the fight up to Labor.
05:29And Brett, practically, what does this mean for the operation of parliament and for journalists
05:34covering things now? Are there going to be two opposition spokesmen for every portfolio?
05:39Well, it becomes really interesting. So the way the parliament works is the second biggest party
05:44gets the official opposition status. So that means Susan Lee and the Liberal Party, not the coalition,
05:49will be the federal opposition. The front bench that Susan Lee will determine will be all Liberals.
05:55They will all get the 25% increase in their pay. And the opposition spokesperson for trade,
06:00which was a Nat in the last parliament, is now going to be a Liberal. So it creates this
06:04interesting situation for the Nats, where they might have had their phone being called by journalists
06:09or by stakeholders because they were leading a policy area. That call is now going to a Liberal.
06:13The Nationals will essentially be like the Greens, sit on part of the crossbench. They won't be tied
06:19necessarily to the Liberal Party, but they say they will work together. At a broader numbers game,
06:24it's 93 Labor politicians that are going to be there, 28 Liberal in the opposition and then 15
06:31in the Nats. So votes are going through the House of Representatives. That's going to be fine.
06:34In the Senate though, this potentially creates an opportunity for Anthony Albanese.
06:38On the numbers, he can either use the Greens to pass legislation, he can use the Liberal Party,
06:43or now if he's really adventurous and wants to walk the ideological spectrum, he could find the
06:47the Nats of four votes and then run the bulk of the crossbench, which does range from David
06:52Pocock and Lydia Thorpe at one end to Ralph Babbitt and One Nation at the other. If he gets the bulk
06:56of those, he can pass legislation. So maybe it will be a bit more exciting than we were originally
07:00expecting. Yeah, it might be exciting on the ABC phone board when, I think you just said the Nats
07:08are going to be like the Greens. I think there are a few National Party MPs. It's just a different
07:13tinge of the same colour. It's fine. It's going to shiver down their spine.
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