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This week marks the 8th United Nations Global Road Safety Week—spotlighting the urgent need to reduce traffic deaths and injuries worldwide. The focus this year: making walking and cycling safer for all. In Malaysia, an average of 18 lives are lost on our roads every single day. That’s one fatality every 80 minutes. And sadly, most of these are preventable. So as global attention turns to safer streets, how are we protecting the most vulnerable road users here at home? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Professor Dr Kulanthayan KC Mani, Executive Council Member of the National Road Safety Council of Malaysia, and Professor at UPM’s Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences.
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00:00Hello and good evening. I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This. This is the show where we want
00:15you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of the day. This week marks the 8th
00:21United Nations Global Road Safety Week, spotlighting the urgent need to reduce traffic deaths and
00:27injuries worldwide. But the painful truth is that in a country where an average of 18 people die on
00:36the roads every day, Malaysia's roads are not safe for everyone. Not for FRU officers or for wildlife
00:44or for you and me. But we can address that because those recent incidences reflect broader weaknesses
00:52in our road safety ecosystem that can be addressed. So how do we build a culture of safety that protects
00:59everyone on and around our roads? Well, joining me today to discuss this further is Professor Dr.
01:07Kulenthayan K.C. Mani, who is an Executive Council Member of the National Road Safety Council of
01:13Malaysia and also a professor at UPM's Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences. Prof Kulith,
01:19thank you so much for being on the show with me. Before we get into the heart of this issue,
01:23I do want to talk about something. I want to address the importance of language, of terminology.
01:29And I think it's important because you've highlighted before that we should stop saying road accidents.
01:35We should instead start using the term road crashes. Talk to me why this is important. What is at stake
01:41with our change of language? Yeah, if you use the word road accident, that means I say, for example,
01:46if I just walk and I just hit someone, I will always say, sorry, I accidentally hit you. And when I say
01:54that word, I don't feel what I did was actually a big mistake and I expect him to forgive me. So if we
02:01keep on doing that, it is as though that this event is completely not preventable. So the key message
02:06here is road crash are preventable. If accident is not preventable. So when we know that these events
02:12are all preventable, then the most suitable word is road crash instead of road accident. I feel like the
02:18word, the words we use are so important, particularly because there's also an element of needing to be
02:24accountable if there's a road crash. So accident means no one is, you know, it's nobody's fault. I also wanted to
02:30ask you, Prof, about, you know, we've seen a recent string of really horrible road crashes involving heavy
02:39vehicles and lorries recently, from the FRU officers that were killed to, you know, the wildlife baby
02:47elephant that was killed. And then recently, we've had a security guard who was killed on a motorbike just
02:54waiting at the traffic light. All of these things, I think are just a microcosm of a larger issue of road
03:01safety. How do you see this particularly involving heavy vehicles? And how does that play into the wider
03:08ecosystem of Malaysia's road systems? Right. If you look at heavy, good vehicles, the biggest challenge
03:14in heavy, good vehicles is you are carrying load. So when you're carrying load, then there is a huge
03:20challenge for you to control your vehicle. So say, for example, if there is an emergency situation and I
03:27need to break my, my vehicle, I need the time and space more compared to if it was a normal private
03:35vehicle because the load itself will need more time and space to stop. Right. And then in terms of even
03:43you see for a crash when it happens, the force is very high because the force is equivalent to the mass times
03:50acceleration. The mass is your load. So just meaning you're carrying a huge load and I will times that with the
03:56speed, speed is acceleration. So for all heavy, good vehicle drivers, since your load is high, the only way for you to
04:06reduce the risk is by driving at a lower speed. Because if you drive at a higher speed, in any event, the force is going to be
04:13multiple times because the mass times acceleration. So on that ground, I request to the two groups. One is to those heavy, good
04:21drivers. Drivers, you have a huge responsibility, not only to save yourself, but to make sure that everyone else who
04:27are using the same roadway at the same time are safe from you as well. So drive slow so that you can reduce the
04:36probability of an event of a crash. And even if a crash happens, the impact would be very much low.
04:43That's one. Second is the vehicle company owners. Okay, you also have equal responsibility because your vehicle is a
04:49high risk vehicle compared to any other vehicle. Therefore, the company which has or owns those kind of vehicles, you have a huge
04:57responsibility to make sure your vehicle is safe at every point of time when it enters the roadway system. So it's an equal
05:03responsibility between the two groups. Well, I'm actually glad that we're talking about this because I think we think that we
05:11understand how crashes happen, right? And we think, oh, it's, you know, every case is unique. But you studying this have kind of
05:18under, have looked at it as three phases of how a crash happens. Maybe you can talk about it from impact to trauma. So talk to me about the three phases.
05:30Yeah, if you see, say if a crash happens, say if I'm as a pedestrian, I'm on a roadway, I'm on a pedestrian standing outside, a car comes and
05:37hits me. So the first contact point of the crash is when the car and the person, so vehicle and human. So that's the first injury
05:47point in terms of the crash. The second one will be is after they have hit me, I would fall on the ground. The ground is hard surface.
05:55So that is the second injury point. And then the third one is after I fall down, and when my body is not moving, but don't
06:04forget my organs are still moving. So when my organs are moving, they can crash among them, they can crash or hit against
06:11each other. And this is where it can lead to internal bleeding and everything. So one crash involving pedestrian, you have three
06:20kind of phases there. First is vehicle to human, human to environment, and then within the human itself. So this can
06:28lead to fatal crash. That's why that all pedestrians or all bicyclists or all motorcyclists, these are the three
06:35groups who are outside the vehicle. This group are most vulnerable. Compared to anyone who is sitting inside the vehicle. If you sit inside the
06:46vehicle, you have one layer of protection. Your vehicle body gives you one layer of protection. So all those
06:52people outside the vehicle, your risk is very high. Okay. Well, this is interesting. Talk to me about why some, the timing of
07:02fatalities. Because not all crashes result in injuries result in fatalities. And timing is the factor between all three. Talk to me about that. Yeah. So say if a crash happens, there is
07:14only four different kinds of outcomes. One is only vehicle damage. Nothing happens to the passengers. Only vehicle damage,
07:21that's the least. And then after that, you will have, say, vehicle damage, you will have minor injuries, then you have
07:29serious injuries, then you have fatality. So this is the four different types of outcomes. So in terms of road safety, if you
07:35look at a strategies, we look at three types of phases. One is where the outcome is where it happens
07:42on the spot. That means dying on the spot. That is the worst scenario. Dying on the spot. The second one is dying within
07:49three hours. And the next one is dying within 30 days. Why 30 days is because Malaysia adopts the global rules
07:56where road safety death is counted based on an incident that happened within 30 days. Right. So when you look at
08:05these three phases, the biggest bulk is dying on the spot. Really? 70%. Wow. Why is that? Because the impact is so severe?
08:15Yeah. Because say, any accidents happening among those who are outside the vehicle, be it motorcycle or
08:23be it bicyclist or pedestrian, then the impact is direct to your body. And all our, for a human, the maximum
08:30transfer of energy I can absorb is only up to 30 km per hour. 30 km. So say, if you're driving at 70, and the point, at the
08:39point, at a point when you hit me, it say it's 50, say you are driving at 70, you saw me, you press
08:44your brake, and then by the time your vehicle touched my body, it's at 50. But my body can
08:49tolerate up to 30. Anything beyond than 30, then there'll be injury to me. Oh, that's a very
08:56horrible example to give. So the high number of, so the higher the speed, then the higher of
09:02transfer of energy happens to the human body. And when we can't tolerate, that's when it can lead to a
09:07fatal crash. So you've presented numbers that were very sobering before. I mentioned in my intro 18
09:14fatalities a day from the roads of Malaysia. 6,400 road deaths a year. I think sometimes I forget that
09:26this figure actually constitutes a public health emergency, a public health crisis. What do you think
09:34about the way our, what is it about our roads that allow for these statistics, these horrifying
09:43statistics to remain so high? Have you determined why, what causes, what are the factors behind such high
09:51numbers? Okay. If you look, there are various reasons. One, the first one if you say is we have high number of private
09:59vehicle usage usage in the country. For 36 million vehicle, 36 million population, we have registered
10:06vehicles close to that number, 36 million as well. One purpose. Yeah. So could be maybe active vehicles within that
10:12could be say roughly say about more than 25 million. But even that number is very high. One easy cross check, you can just
10:18ask check back with your own, the number of people who are living in your house. How many people in your house,
10:25household, and how many number of registered vehicles. If it's one to one ratio, that's when the risk is. Any
10:32countries which has high number of private vehicles will have challenge. So one way forward is, is to move towards
10:39public transport. And all those countries which are doing very well, name it, Sweden, Norway, Australia,
10:45Japan, all have invested heavily on public transport, and in particular, rail-based public transport.
10:51Wow. So that's one way forward. If we can move towards rail-based public transport, that means the
10:57number of trips using private vehicles will reduce, and some will be shifted over here. So we are not saying
11:02completely leave private vehicles because you have one. But what we are saying is not all travels need to
11:08be done using your private vehicles. There are some trips where you can switch from private to public
11:14transport. So let's start with that switch. So that would be one way forward. The other one, if you
11:19look at, we have the roadway system. We have federal roads, we have state roads, municipal roads, highway. Among all
11:28these roads, the risky one is the municipal roads and the state roads. The less risk is the highway. One easy
11:37reason is, whichever roadway system which has a divider, the physical divider, that means I can avoid
11:45frontal collision happening. Because of the divider. Because of the divide. That means this way I am going the
11:51opposite direction. I can avoid the frontal collision in all those roads with the physical divider.
11:57Right. Yeah. But roads in municipal roads and state roads, you won't have. It's just a line. Line. So when I
12:03want to overtake the vehicle in front of me, I have to go to the opposite lane. And when I'm driving in
12:08that lane, I will drive fast because I want to overtake. So being in opposite lane is risk. And driving at a
12:14fast speed, and if there's one vehicle approaching coming there, then that ends up frontal collision. So that's
12:19why even any crash, even at a low speed, if it's frontal crash, can lead to fatal. So this is where…
12:26Oh, the direction of the crash makes a difference. Seriously. The frontal and the side crash are much more
12:33riskier compared to rear end crash. So frontal crash will happen in places where there is no divider. The
12:40side collision happens mostly at traffic lights. At traffic lights, when everyone sees it as green, as though
12:48as green, and everyone moves at the same time. Any crash happening at that junction can lead to fatal.
12:55So how are we doing in terms of global standards? You mentioned that we adopt the WHO standards. When we
13:03benchmark ourselves in terms of road safety performances, where do we stand? I mean, I'm thinking
13:10about in terms of not just infrastructure, but speed management and the way we design our roads. How do we
13:18measure up? Okay. If you look in terms of the vehicle standards, we are doing pretty well, I would say.
13:24Because vehicle standards, we follow international standards. So vehicle standards are fine. So you can see
13:29now most of our vehicles will have, say, six airbags and everything. The standards of vehicle is fine.
13:35We have rooms to improve in terms of the safety for the roads as well. And as well as the other infrastructure
13:45which plays a role in the whole globe. I mean, the whole globe. It will be a good way forward if we start adopting
13:53a safe system approach. Safe system approach. What is safe system approach? Safe system approach says that we
14:02accept humans have limitation and humans will do error. That means after this we shouldn't be saying this is because of
14:11attitude problem. Okay. Put it aside. So it's not about the person in the vehicle. Yeah. Because if we keep on using the
14:20word saying that this is because of attitude problem, then forever we may not be able to address the issue. That's true. That's true.
14:26Right. Take it very clearly. Humans have limitations. Humans will do error. So even when humans do error, in the worst
14:34case scenario, an accident may happen, but it should not lead to fatal. So how do we design our roads?
14:42So the whole thing, the whole infrastructure has to be safe. So even when the human does an error, a crash may
14:48happen, but not fatal. Fatality. Yeah. So this is what adopted by Sweden. Sweden promoted this. And even this was
14:54passed in their parliament. So to make sure that when it passed in parliament, every stakeholder who is
15:00involved, whether car manufacturer, whether road designers, everyone has a duty now to make sure that whatever they
15:08whatever they produce, whatever they design has to save the people at the end of the day. Okay.
15:14There is a kind of fail safe. Well, talk to me about walking and cycling because the UN Global Safety,
15:22Road Safety Week, this year's focus is on making walking and cycling safer. Yeah.
15:28So the question is, is it safe to walk and cycle in Malaysia? And I asked that not facetiously
15:34because the number of fatalities involving pedestrians and cyclists are relatively low. So that should we read
15:42that as is actually safe to walk and cycle in Malaysia? Okay. Quite a good question, but a few angles over there. Okay. Right.
15:50So the 8th UN Global Road Safety Week happens every two years once. It started in 2011 and now we are here. And every year,
15:58the team are different. So this year's team is on safe walking and cycling. So coming back to the next question,
16:04you ask Malaysian status, if you see. Yes. The number of deaths involving pedestrians are close to about 5%. Okay.
16:12And number of deaths involving cyclists is about 1.6%. Okay. So the numbers are low. The numbers are low doesn't mean that they are safe.
16:22It's because number of people walking and number of people cycling are less. So the exposure was less. Okay.
16:30But generally, walking activity and cycling activity is much more safer compared to any motorised vehicle travel.
16:40Oh, why is that? Yeah. Because in a motorised vehicle travel, the speed is there. Speed.
16:44The biggest issue in road safety is the speed. If you ask me, tell me one intervention that can give us the highest return,
16:52return on investment, go for speed cut. Okay. Cut the speed. You can get both returns.
16:57You can prevent crash from happening, one. Or in the event a crash happens, you can prevent injuries.
17:03So coming back here. So knowing that pedestrians are low and then cyclists are low.
17:09So the idea here is, can we move more people to these two activities?
17:14So when we move them to these two activities, walking and cycling, it means their motorised travel is less.
17:20So when their motorised travel is less, they are much more safer.
17:24And number of crash goes down and number of injuries goes down. So that's the reason why this team comes up.
17:29So even though it's one week, May 12th till May 18th, the UN Global Road Safety Week,
17:35but this team, Safe Walking and Cycling is valid for another two years until the next team is out.
17:41Okay. So my request over here is, for all stakeholders, whether at the local level, say municipal council or state governments,
17:49this is the time for all of us to come forward. If you can support this initiative,
17:55support walking initiative, support cycling initiative, then in that way we can have less motorised travel trips,
18:02and then we can reduce number of crashes and injuries in your own respective districts.
18:08In your own respective districts. So that way we can make your district much more a livable place.
18:14And for sure once walking and cycling goes up, public transport usage will go up.
18:19How do you, you know, in the kind of chicken and egg cycle of trying to convince the local government and district to adopt these measures to make walking and cycling safer,
18:33and then versus the people who will walk and cycle, who think it's not safe and, you know, we're far safer driving three minutes to the nearest minimarket.
18:44How do you, who do you convince first? How do you get buy-in from both?
18:49Yeah. Need to get buying in from both, but I'm not sure which angle that you should start first.
18:54Yeah. Is it bottom-up approach? Is it top-down approach?
18:57I think both can do it. Both can do it. Both can do it.
18:59Both can do it. It can be supply-driven demand or demand-driven supply. Both ways can.
19:05Okay. So my request here is for those people, for those who are entrusted to provide the infrastructure,
19:13instead of providing new infrastructure, wait first, can you make sure the existing infrastructure is safe first?
19:20Okay. Right? So if you have already built some walkways, if you have already built some cycling lanes,
19:27can you make sure that those two infrastructure that you have already built it, make them safe first?
19:32So once you make them safe first, and when people start using such facility,
19:37when they feel comfortable, then they will spread the news.
19:42So they will be your agent to pull the other crowd. You don't have to pull it. Let them use it.
19:47So after you have to make sure that you have taken care of the existing, then you start providing new ones.
19:54So this is what I am hoping.
19:56What makes for safe walking and safe cycling? What are the indicators that you look at to say,
20:01okay, I think this area is safe for pedestrians and cyclists?
20:06Okay. The idea, the whole idea of having this bicycle lane and pedestrian lane, or pedestrian walkway,
20:13is to segregate them from the vehicles. Okay.
20:16Because if I mix these two people with the vehicle in the same roadway, then they are at risk,
20:21because this vehicle can crash them, can collide them.
20:25And they are very vulnerable without any protection.
20:27The space that you provide to them must be a space where these vehicles can never enter.
20:31Oh.
20:32If they enter, then again the collision happens.
20:34So clearly marked.
20:36Clearly marked.
20:37And then make it feel comfortable, because when you are walking,
20:40you don't want to feel the heat as well, isn't it?
20:43So if there are trees along the line, then you feel much better to walk.
20:47And then if we can package it, not only as a road safety initiative,
20:51if it's a health initiative, going slightly larger concept, as a health initiative,
20:56you also will be helping the environment feel.
20:59You also will be contributing towards the health feel, isn't it?
21:03The more people walk, the more healthier they are.
21:06And the more people don't use...
21:08Non-communicable diseases.
21:10And the more people don't use motorized vehicles, then your environment gets better.
21:14Speaking about motorized vehicles, how do you feel about e-scooters?
21:18How safe are they?
21:21Should they be incorporated in our discussion about road safety and mobility?
21:27Any type of vehicle, we should bring it into the discussion.
21:32Because if they are going to be within the system, it has to be very clear.
21:35Any vehicle, it doesn't matter whether it's e-vehicle or what,
21:38if the speed is there, then it contributes.
21:41Then it is a matter of concern.
21:43So the issue here is mainly, what is the speed?
21:46Right.
21:47Yeah.
21:48So, if for a bicycle, we are segregating.
21:50So similarly, motorcycle, we also have motorcycle lanes.
21:52This is the reason why these three groups, we have lanes.
21:55We don't have lorry lanes, we don't have van lanes.
21:58No.
21:59The three groups who are outside the vehicle, who are at risk.
22:02That's why we split them separately.
22:04You mentioned a few times how important it is to manage speed for us to be able to address road safety better.
22:14How do we think about that speed management in the country?
22:18Everyone knows the highways are 110 and certain roads have different kilometers per hour limits.
22:27How do we think about reducing speed to reduce crashes, injuries and fatalities?
22:36Good.
22:37This is the question.
22:38I think the biggest return we will get once we invest on speed reduction.
22:43Okay.
22:44One good example, one good way forward for us to move is to start speed reduction in the areas where needed the most.
22:53Okay.
22:54So, one good area will be the school zones.
22:56Okay.
22:57So, school zones.
22:58What are the speeds for schools?
22:59Okay.
23:00The school zones.
23:01As I told you, the maximum human injury body tolerance I can take is up to 30.
23:0730.
23:08So, therefore, all school zones should be 30 kilometers per hour.
23:11And this is global practice.
23:12Okay.
23:13Not malicious practice.
23:14It's global practice.
23:15Because humans are the same, no matter where.
23:16So, as long as there are pedestrians, and then if that zone where pedestrians will interact
23:22with vehicles, WSU's recommendation is all those zones have to be 30 kilometers per hour.
23:27So, coming back to Malaysia.
23:29We have 10,200 plus schools in the country.
23:33Okay.
23:34So, you look at one whole country.
23:35I have 10,000 school locations.
23:38If I start my first speed reduction, instead of going black blanket rule for the whole country.
23:44If I said, okay, can we have 30 kilometers per hour school limit only in school zones first.
23:50But it's 10,000 locations.
23:52Yeah.
23:53So, the return will be very high.
23:54Yeah.
23:55It will spread.
23:56Right.
23:57And then, even say, if this is my school, 30, if you are normally driving say at 90, you
24:03cannot suddenly bring down to 30.
24:05So, from 90, he has to bring down to 70.
24:08Then 50.
24:09Then 30.
24:10So, that means because of this initiative, I get a spillover benefit over another 200 meters
24:15this side.
24:16Another 200 meters this side.
24:17Because after 30, you cannot accelerate immediately.
24:19Okay.
24:20You will take time to accelerate.
24:22And not everyone will accelerate.
24:24There could be someone who may not go back to the original 90.
24:27They may go back to 70.
24:29Or maybe go back to 50.
24:30Or there could be some portion who may feel comfortable to maintain 30.
24:34So, on this angle, I will get 200 meters benefit.
24:38This angle, I will get some benefits over some meter.
24:41So, if I do that for 10,000 locations, then I feel we are making a real impact at population
24:48level.
24:49Wow.
24:50So, if we are able to win this war, I will say, this traffic war here, then we can start
24:55exploring on different other locations where pedestrians and vehicles collision points.
25:00It could be residential areas.
25:03It could be shopping areas.
25:05As long as high number of pedestrian movements and there are vehicles coming.
25:09This is such a great way to get impactful change.
25:14Who do we need to speak to to make this happen?
25:17Good.
25:18There are many people here.
25:21There are many people involved in order to make this workable.
25:24To make this successful.
25:25Is it the schools that need to?
25:26Everyone.
25:27Everyone.
25:28We go this way first.
25:29First is those who provide the infrastructure.
25:32That means who owns the road.
25:34There are many owners.
25:35We have highway owners.
25:38We have the federal JKR who owns the road.
25:41There are some roads under the state JKR.
25:43There are some roads by the state local council.
25:45Whoever who owns the road.
25:48We are kindly requesting for you to provide.
25:51If in your road, there are schools in your road.
25:54Can you help to designate those areas for 30?
25:58That's one.
25:5930 is the signboard.
26:00But signboard only will not change people's behaviour, doesn't it?
26:03But we support it together by having the humps.
26:06Alright.
26:07That engineering measure.
26:08The engineering measure is needed.
26:09When you have the humps.
26:11And then you also should put the rumble strips.
26:13To make sure that people are aware that they are entering some zone.
26:17So the first is the signboard.
26:18You are entering the larger zone of 30.
26:20Then the rumble strips comes in.
26:22Then the humps comes in.
26:24Then only you have the pedestrian crossing.
26:27And that pedestrian crossing, I would request make it slightly elevated.
26:31Because children are short the size.
26:33So you can see them a bit more visible.
26:35And even that pedestrian crossing now also functions like another hum.
26:38Because it is slightly elevated.
26:40So if you combine these four, then I believe you can reduce the speed in that zone.
26:45And after some time when people get used to it, they will be able to reduce it.
26:49And most important, when we see pedestrian crossing, we have to respect pedestrian.
26:55Respect it, yes.
26:56Pedestrian is also part of a roadway system.
26:58It is not only vehicle, the road belongs to vehicle.
27:01Road also belongs to pedestrian.
27:03So my request, every car vehicle uses, you have to stop.
27:07Right.
27:08For pedestrian to cross.
27:09Please reduce your speed earlier.
27:11So to make sure the pedestrian feels comfortable to cross.
27:14Reduce your speed earlier.
27:15When you reach that pedestrian crossing, stop.
27:17And we can make a change because as long as the first vehicle stops,
27:20the other vehicle has to stop.
27:22So you heard it here.
27:24Make sure that you reduce your speed and respect the pedestrian crossing.
27:28Let's make the school zone's speed limit a reality.
27:31Sure.
27:32Thank you so much for being on the show.
27:34That's all we have for you on this episode of Consider This.
27:36I'm Melissa Idris signing off for the evening.
27:38Thank you so much for watching.
27:39Have a good night.
27:47Have a good night.
27:48Bye.
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