Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00Welcome to Hope at Night, featuring Nathan Krause, Oratai Churisan, Q&A with our live
00:18audience, and host, Anil Kanda.
00:25Today's episode, How Can I Find Peace?
00:30And here's your host, Anil Kanda.
00:36A little preschooler was always a little anxious whenever his mother left him.
00:41One day, his mother stooped down to his level and said,
00:45I know, let's pray and ask Jesus for peace.
00:49The little boy opened his eyes wide and said,
00:52Me no like peas.
00:54Whether or not you're a fan of small green legumes, peace is a universal longing in a world full of chaos, anxiety, and uncertainty.
01:05For many, finding true peace often feels like chasing the wind.
01:09But what if that peace isn't as elusive as it seems?
01:14Our first guest tonight is a man whose fruitless search for peace made an about turn when he found himself on an overhead bridge
01:22craned with 400 volts of electricity surging through his body.
01:27Let's find out more about his journey.
01:30Please welcome to Hope at Night, Nathan Krause.
01:38Nathan, before we get into this electrifying moment, could you tell us a little bit about your background, how you grew up?
01:45Sure. I grew up in the Pennsylvania Dutch culture.
01:51My grandfathers, my grandparents on my mother's side were Mennonites, and on my father's side, they were Schwenkfelder's.
01:57What was that?
01:58Schwenkfelder. I think it's the world's smallest denomination.
02:01There's only five churches in southeastern Pennsylvania.
02:04Oh, interesting.
02:04But von Schwenkfelder was a contemporary of Martin Luther.
02:08Okay.
02:08And so I grew up going to actually a German reformed church, but we went, you know, a couple times a month.
02:14We weren't real religious at home.
02:17Believed in God, but didn't really have prayer or any Bible reading in the home.
02:22What challenges do you remember having growing up?
02:25Had a great childhood until my 15th birthday.
02:29On my 15th birthday, I was the captain of the wrestling team at school, and they asked me to come referee a couple of scrimmage matches.
02:37And afterward, I said, let's just wrestle for fun.
02:39And one of my coaches damaged my shoulder, my rotator cuff.
02:42So I came home from the hospital with my arm in a sling, and the doctor said, you'll never wrestle again.
02:48I was devastated.
02:49But then shortly after that, later that day, we got a call from a doctor.
02:54My mom hadn't been feeling well, had some tests done, and they confirmed that she had cancer, Hodgkin's disease.
03:00All these things happened all once.
03:01I was on my 15th birthday, and I felt like my world just crashed.
03:06I was lying down on the floor, looking up at the ceiling and asking God, why are you letting all this happen?
03:12You know, so many people wrestle with that question.
03:14Why do bad things happen to good people?
03:16And my mom was such a good lady.
03:18I thought, how can this happen?
03:19And so I came away from that not feeling like I really connected with God, always believing He existed, but not feeling a personal connection.
03:28In my little mind, I was thinking, you know, life is short and uncertain, and I don't know what's ahead, but I'm just going to live it up while I can.
03:35And prior to that, I had always prided myself in caring for my body, being a great fit level, and I had a lot of friends who were doing drugs, and it was all around me, but I never drank or did drugs.
03:50And that day, I decided, I'm just going to have fun.
03:53I don't know what life has in store, but I'm going to live it up.
03:56So I became a hedonist.
03:57I didn't know the word, but that's practically what it was.
04:00Just pleasure is the highest goal.
04:01I'm just going to enjoy life and see what happens.
04:04And after that, I just started chasing what I thought was good times, you know.
04:11How did God and religion and the Bible come into all of this?
04:15Well, you know, I checked out from reality because of the pain that I was feeling.
04:20And so a typical day for me in high school was get up in the morning, drink a couple of shots of whiskey, snort a couple of lines of cocaine, and then do acid or quaaludes or mushrooms all day long to stay up, down, or sideways.
04:34And then take something to calm down in the evening, go to sleep, and do the whole thing over the next day.
04:38I was just checking out constantly.
04:41And after a few years of that, I thought, there's got to be more to life than, you know, chasing the next high.
04:46I was feeling pretty empty.
04:47I had begun studying martial arts, was later teaching martial arts.
04:52And so in that whole journey, I had a friend who was a Hare Krishna Hindu.
04:58So I got into that for a while.
04:59I used to visit the ashram.
05:01And just searching and dabbling, started practicing Buddhism as a martial artist, you know, meditating.
05:09It sounds like you begin to, in this search for peace and meaning, begin to go through the East, through the Eastern religions.
05:17Yeah, because it was new and appealing in a different way.
05:20I grew up kind of exposed to Christianity, but like I said, we weren't deeply into it.
05:26And so I thought, well, that's, I've already done, tried that, and I didn't find any depth there.
05:31Something new and appealing was the Eastern religions.
05:33Why do you think that is so appealing to people who are searching for peace in a world full of stress, anxiety, and tragedy?
05:41I think maybe it's because Christians have failed to show what true peace can be experienced through Christ.
05:49I felt like I never met a Christian who showed me who Jesus really was.
05:55I mean, I had devout family members, but I never had anybody explain to me what it means to have a personal relationship with Jesus and find peace that way.
06:03And I did meet a guy after I finished teaching martial arts class.
06:08I went into the sauna, and I met this guy who just was happy, and I thought, oh, he's got something I want.
06:15He shared with me he was into this New Age cult.
06:18It was humanistic, kind of, you know, you are God in your own universe.
06:24You create your own reality.
06:26And so for, yeah, three years or so, I was immersed in that, and I found that just left me high and dry, too.
06:33For a while, I thought it was, you know, exciting and new and different.
06:36Okay.
06:37Yeah, so, and I had this view all the time that it's kind of like God's at the top of the mountain, and there are many paths to find him.
06:45And so, even in high school, I took an elective class on world religions.
06:49I was fascinated with all the different paths to the top of the mountain, and I was just dabbling and searching and feeling like I'm getting a lot out of all these little things I'm looking into.
06:59But I wasn't strongly committed to any of them.
07:01I had a friend who was a Christian.
07:04She cut my hair.
07:06Every time she cut my hair, she's telling me about Jesus.
07:08She's got a captive audience.
07:09Captive audience.
07:10I was there, and I thought if I, you know, if I don't listen, she might cut my ear off or something.
07:14So, she, I would laugh at her, call her a Jesus freak.
07:20And I just remember her so patiently and deliberately sticking with me and saying, I just want you to know how much God loves you, and I want you to know that Jesus died for you.
07:33So, that stuck, but it, I mean, I kept thinking about how she was so committed to Christianity, but it didn't seem like it was the thing for me.
07:44As you mentioned in the intro, I had an electrifying experience.
07:47I was, I worked in an iron foundry, and I was working up on this bridge crane.
07:52So, that's not the kind of crane you drive around.
07:54It's stationary, but it goes front and back, and I was loading some stuff.
07:58I had a problem with it, the cable.
08:00I thought, well, I'll just go out and fix it.
08:02It was, I was working a double shift.
08:03By then, it was 10 o'clock at night, and I'd been working since 7 in the morning.
08:07I thought, I don't want to wait for maintenance to fix this.
08:10I turned off the power in the cab.
08:12I got out on the catwalk, and I thought, I'll just go get that cable in the right place.
08:16What I didn't know is that, turning off the cab power, I thought, you know, I turned that, but I didn't realize I was about to put my hand right on the 440-volt I-beam that was the monorail that ran the crane.
08:28So, I was standing on steel, had my left hand on the steel ladder that was part of the catwalk system, and touched there.
08:36I had leather gloves on, but there were holes in them, like leather welder's gloves.
08:40So, as soon as I touched it, I felt the zap, and I couldn't release.
08:45I was stuck there.
08:46I thought instantly, that's it, I'm going to die right now, and I didn't.
08:50And I thought, this is weird.
08:51How long will I last?
08:52I'm shaking.
08:54I'm uncontrollably.
08:55400 volts.
08:56440, and the amperage is, you know, what's really, that's the significant part.
09:04I don't know exactly what it was on that crane, but I was zapped really well, and I was hopeless, and helpless.
09:09I couldn't call out.
09:11There was like a groaning sound coming out of my mouth, but I couldn't speak and couldn't release myself.
09:16And about two minutes, I think, I was hanging there.
09:20The time was just rushing, and my mind was racing.
09:23The thoughts in my head were, first, I wish I could get down and tell my family I love them, and I'm sorry for all the pain that I caused.
09:31So, I always, when I share that, I tell people, if there are people in your life you need to make things right with, you don't want to face death and leave that on.
09:40You don't want to think about it at that time.
09:42Go make the phone call.
09:43Go visit someone.
09:45Make it right.
09:46But the other thing I was thinking is, I'm not ready to meet God.
09:49I'm not ready to die.
09:50And with those thoughts racing in my head, suddenly I felt somebody slap, not the hand that was on the metal, on the source, the power source, but the other hand, because I was leaning kind of this way.
10:04And I was about 50, 60 feet up in the air, and somebody slapped this hand, which made me fall.
10:10And I didn't fall all the way to the ground.
10:12There was a catwalk below me.
10:13I fell about eight feet, landed on my bottom, and I was okay.
10:18I smelled burnt flesh.
10:19I know that smell working in an iron foundry.
10:21I've got some skin grafts on my legs, and I thought, wow, I smell burnt flesh, but all I have is this blister on my thumb.
10:28Everybody that saw it on the ground came running up, you know, came up the stairs in the system, and the supervisor said, we've got to get you to the hospital.
10:37I was 21 years old, thought I was invincible.
10:40I said, no, I'm fine.
10:41Just let me rest for five minutes, and I went back to work.
10:44He made me talk to a doctor on the phone, called the hospital, and I talked to the ER doc.
10:51He said, oh, man, you better get in here right away.
10:53You've got to get checked out.
10:54I said, no, doc, I'm tired.
10:56I've been working all day.
10:57I'm going to go home.
10:57I'm fine.
10:58He goes, you're an idiot.
11:00And I said, whatever.
11:01I hung up the phone, and I went home, and I didn't know how to pray, but I knew that God saved my life.
11:09I knew somebody hit my hand, and nobody was there.
11:12I used to sleep on this futon on the floor, and I knelt by that futon, and I just said a simple prayer of thanks to God for saving my life, and went to bed.
11:21Next morning when I got to work, everybody, the place was just buzzing, talking about that, and they said, the administration at the office said, you have to go to the hospital.
11:31When I went to the hospital, the doctors cut that little blister on my thumb.
11:35I have this skin graft here that was charred all the way down to the bone.
11:40They dug it out, and so I said, oh, that's what I smelled.
11:43He said, that's the entry point.
11:44Where's your exit wound?
11:46I said, I don't know what you're talking about.
11:48And the doctor explained, when you get electrocuted, there's usually a small entry point where it goes in, and then a big wound where it blows out of your body.
11:55I said, no, there's nothing like that.
11:56He searched head to toe, didn't find it, called in a second doctor, and they said, wow, this is something we've never seen before.
12:02Mind if we call in a third doctor?
12:04So I had three doctors scratching their heads saying, we have never seen anything like this before.
12:08That's incredible.
12:09And I joked, well, maybe I'm still charged if it didn't exit my body.
12:11But I was hospitalized for a few days, and they said, if you hadn't come in, you might have died.
12:17Because my CPK count, which measures the enzymes in your body and in your blood, they check that for like after a heart attack.
12:26That's how it shows up.
12:28And they said, 30 would be low.
12:31300 would be really high.
12:32You're over 3,000, just off the charts.
12:34Your kidneys would have failed.
12:35So they had me all monitored and checked me for, I said, I got to get out of here by Friday.
12:43This was a Tuesday afternoon.
12:44They said, you'll go home when we tell you.
12:46I said, no, you don't understand.
12:47I've got this huge party planned at our house, you know, my dad's place.
12:50You've just been electrocuted, and you're thinking about the party.
12:54I said, it's too big to call off.
12:56And there's over 300 people invited.
12:58Six kegs of beer have been reserved.
13:00My friends in a rock band are playing, and my martial arts school is doing a demo.
13:04It's just huge, and it can't be changed, you know.
13:07It's like this is just an inconvenience.
13:09I need to move on.
13:09Exactly.
13:10And so Friday, I got out of the hospital, went back, had the party, partied, you know.
13:17But I could never shake what happened to me.
13:19I realized here I was facing death, and I had no peace.
13:24And God intervened and saved my life.
13:26In that very moment.
13:28Yeah.
13:28And so I was processing.
13:29You know, I kept thinking about it for a few months, and I thought, my black belt didn't matter.
13:34When I was facing death, Buddha didn't matter, Confucius didn't matter, my new age guru didn't matter.
13:40All the Hindu gods, everything I was investing in, reading about psychology, philosophy, none of that gave me any peace when I was facing death.
13:49So I thought, why am I going to continue to invest in these things and chase after peace in those areas?
13:56When I really needed it, I didn't have it.
13:58So something's not working.
13:59Nathan, you tried Buddhism, Hinduism, this cult.
14:03You've had this electrifying moment, literally, but also spiritually.
14:08Yeah.
14:09What changed?
14:10God had to hit me with a two by four to wake me up, I think.
14:14Well, what I thought about is that Susan had peace.
14:18My Christian friend that kept sharing it, and I didn't.
14:21So I thought, well, it's working for her, and I've been kind of brushing her off and thinking that's old-fashioned Christianity.
14:27Maybe there's something I need to look into.
14:29So I started asking more questions.
14:31I got more serious about being open to re-looking at an old familiar religion that I thought I knew.
14:38And what I discovered, Anil, was that in all of those other religions and isms that I was pursuing, I was searching for God, and I was doing what I could do to improve myself.
14:52But Christianity is just the opposite of that, really.
14:55It's God's search for us.
14:56And I felt like, here I am looking for all these answers, and he's been searching.
15:01He's been saying, I'm here.
15:02You know, like I believe in Isaiah, you know, God says through the prophet, all day long, I've stood with my arms wide open to a stiff-necked and rebellious people.
15:10And so that's what I was doing.
15:11I'm pushing God out, the Christian God, view of God.
15:15And then I looked at it again.
15:17And so I realized all of those teachers that I was pursuing before, they're all dead.
15:23They're all in a grave somewhere.
15:24Jesus is the only one who claimed to have conquered death, and he's more than a teacher.
15:30He said, I'm a savior.
15:31I died for your sins.
15:32And his tomb is empty.
15:36You know, people were willing to die for that.
15:38They didn't make up a lie and were willing to die for a lie.
15:41They knew they saw him alive after they'd seen him dead.
15:44And over 500 witnesses, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15.
15:47So, and he said, the greater part of which are still alive, right?
15:50So, I'm thinking, looking at all this, learning, I said, so Paul's basically saying, hey, if you doubt this, go talk to the eyewitness.
15:57There's almost 500 of them still living.
15:59During that time.
16:01And then I realized Jesus is a savior, not a teacher.
16:04And maybe that's where the peace comes from.
16:06That's right.
16:06He's more than just a religious figure, a religious guide.
16:10He is the savior.
16:11You know, it's interesting.
16:13You can essentially remove Gautama Buddha out of Buddhism and you can still have the principles of Buddhism.
16:20Right.
16:20You can still move Muhammad out of Islam and he's still got, you know, the Quran and the aspects of Islam.
16:28And you can remove Krishna and Hinduism still has many of the Hindu scriptures and the principles of Hinduism.
16:35But you cannot remove Jesus from Christianity.
16:39He is the essence of Christianity.
16:42And when I read that in John 14, 6, when I read, Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life.
16:48No one comes to the father except through me.
16:51It's like, oh, it's like he was speaking to me.
16:53I said, I've been searching for the way, the truth and the life, the way to the father.
16:56And he says, here I am.
16:59It's not about a religion.
17:00It's about a relationship with the person who is your savior.
17:03Nathan, let's break this down a little bit more practically, though.
17:07How does someone find peace with God, with Jesus?
17:12I realized that it's not about me doing the right things, living the right, you know, lifestyle with the meditations and purifications and me making myself somehow more acceptable to God.
17:26Like, see how good I am.
17:28Because why don't we ever, who can really say to God, hey, I deserve eternal life.
17:32I deserve heaven.
17:34Really?
17:34You know, are any of us that good?
17:36No, we all, even the best of us, aren't perfect, right?
17:40So the peace for me came with understanding that Jesus said, stop your struggling.
17:45I died for you so that you might have eternal life.
17:49It's a gift.
17:50There's peace in that.
17:51You don't have to earn it.
17:52It's a gift.
17:53And then in response to that beautiful gift that he gives us, it changes our life.
17:59And we're not living a pure, holy life in order to be saved.
18:03We're just living our best attempt as he lives through us to be pure and holy and good because we're responding to the gift he's given us, not in order to earn it.
18:13Nathan, what you're describing is so beautiful because this isn't some kind of exchange or bargaining or negotiation you're making with God, but rather it's a recognition of God's goodness.
18:25And with that recognition, the response is an acceptance that touches the very core of who you are, your very heart.
18:34Yeah, it changes us and we just, it's kind of a natural response.
18:40This love, how can we not be changed by that kind of love when you really understand that God loves you, that you're precious to him, that he wants to spend eternity.
18:49Like if he doesn't have you in eternity, that's an eternal loss because each one of us is precious, unique, individual created in his image.
18:58Only one of you.
18:58There's only one.
19:00And if we are lost for eternity, God will, you know, that will be a loss for him for eternity.
19:06So he wants you to be his forever friend.
19:09That's beautiful.
19:10That's what brought me peace, knowing that God's crazy about me.
19:13He loves me.
19:13He wants, and I don't have to earn it.
19:16That's so fascinating.
19:18How has life changed for you since then?
19:21Yeah.
19:22Well, you know, I thought I was living the good life, chasing after the good life.
19:25And then when I did finally surrender to God and experience that peace as a Christian, I said, oh, this is refreshing.
19:36This is the good life.
19:38You know, it's not getting high and checking out.
19:42It's having peace and being able to live, face reality.
19:45And because of those seven years that I checked out from 15 to 22, I felt like I was seven years behind in my growth and maturity.
19:53I hadn't dealt with reality and hadn't overcome problems.
19:57So now I was like a 15-year-old in a 22-year-old body and I had to play catch up.
20:01God did that for me.
20:03That's incredible.
20:04That's really fascinating, your description from going to these places where, because of tragedy and because of pain, you went to on these pilgrimages, the spiritual journey to try to find peace and fulfillment.
20:22But eventually, you found it in Jesus.
20:25And, you know, if I hadn't had that tragic moment that really caused me to check my reality, up until then, I thought, like, I'm doing all right.
20:36I'm on a trek and life's good and I'm learning.
20:39I'm dabbling here, dabbling there.
20:40And I'm, boy, look how much I'm growing in my understanding.
20:43And it wasn't until the crisis moment where I was facing death that I realized it's not working.
20:50It's not enough.
20:51It doesn't answer my problems.
20:53It doesn't give me the peace I'm longing for.
20:56And so I think, unfortunately, for many of us, that was the case for me.
21:00God needs to allow us to experience some sort of traumatic crisis in life, not because he wants to put us through that, but because he knows that's the only thing that will wake us up to bring him to him.
21:10And, unfortunately, many times when people go through a traumatic crisis, they blame God instead of turning to him.
21:17Nathan, one more question.
21:21Somebody is probably going through something very similar.
21:25They're hearing everything you're saying.
21:27They're resonating with it.
21:28What would you say to that individual that is processing the things that they're hearing at this moment?
21:35Um, if they're like me, um, I kind of had this bias against Christianity because of what I, I just thought it was, oh, it's a nice religion.
21:46And Jesus was a great guy.
21:48I never had any problem with him, but I didn't see it for what it was.
21:52So I think I would tell them, open up your mind in an unbiased way to take a fresh look at this beautiful teacher.
22:03Give it a shot.
22:04Try Christianity again.
22:06Even if, you know, we're kind of in a Christian culture, so we think we've been exposed, but it's almost like someone has said you've been inoculated to the gospel, right?
22:14The power of the gospel isn't there for you because you think you know it.
22:19It kind of reminds me of the Antique Roadshow.
22:21You ever seen that show?
22:23You know, some, some elderly lady will bring something up that's just been in her family and she had just dismissed.
22:30Maybe it was some, you know, painting or whatever.
22:34And when they bring in the professionals, they let them know this is worth far more than you know.
22:39Yeah, we can rub up against Christianity and not realize what a beautiful treasure it is to know Jesus.
22:46Wonderful.
22:47Thank you so much, Nathan.
22:49We've just heard Nathan's remarkable journey to peace.
22:52When we come back, we'll talk with a woman from the other side of the world and her search for peace under very different circumstances.
23:00Don't go away.
23:09Welcome back to Hope at Night.
23:17We've just heard an inspiring story from Nathan Krause about his journey to peace.
23:22Our next guest has a story that takes us halfway around the world to Thailand, where she grew up in a strict Buddhist household.
23:30Let's find out more about her story.
23:32Please welcome to Hope at Night, Oratai Cherson.
23:39Thank you so much for being here.
23:43Now, you have a unique experience, much different from many of us.
23:48You grew up in a devout Buddhist home.
23:51Could you tell us a little bit more about that?
23:54Yeah, thank you so much.
23:55I actually grew up in a very devout Buddhist community because I think in all cities that I was growing up, there is no Christians.
24:07Yeah, we are being emphasized too a lot about humility, about self-control.
24:16And so this is something also probably can be appreciated because of how those things have shaped me the way I am.
24:27Oratai, could you tell us a little bit more about Buddhism?
24:30Buddhism is, and this is good for us to understand a little bit more about it.
24:36Did you go to a temple once a week?
24:41Were the Buddhist priests, what did they talk about?
24:44What is the overall essence of the religion?
24:47Yeah, the overall essence is the middle path.
24:50Actually, we do have precepts.
24:53There are five precepts, just like, you know, Ten Commandments.
24:56Do not kill, do not steal, do not tell a lie, do not commit adultery, and do not be intoxicated.
25:03Of course, you know, you will see different Buddhism, Hinayana and Mahayana.
25:09There are some, you know, different restrictions.
25:11But overall, it's pretty much on to the lifestyle, on how you can exhibit.
25:20And we are being emphasized a lot with the fear of consequences.
25:25Because we believe in the karma, there is a cause and effect.
25:29So what you do could bring on some desirable and undesirable circumstances in your life or in this life or even afterlife because of the cycle of rebirth that the Buddhists or even Hindus.
25:47Very similar to Hinduism.
25:49That's right, that's right.
25:50When it comes to Buddhism, was there a temple?
25:54We visit three to four times in a month because when there's full moon, certain days that we have to go just.
26:03And so with that, we have to listen.
26:07I remember sitting down, you know, cross-legged and very uncomfortable.
26:12And sometimes it's painful, but I couldn't move because my mom said, hmm, don't do that, you know.
26:20Or sometimes I, you know, kind of looking around what people were doing as a child, you know, when the ear is being pulled.
26:28And so, but when I asked the question, I said, why are we doing this?
26:34What is the meaning of this?
26:36You know, my mom would just say, well, it's good for you.
26:40It's good for you.
26:41The word good is an explanation for everything.
26:44And that actually made me feel dissatisfied with what, you know, has been taught to me.
26:51It wasn't enough.
26:51It wasn't enough.
26:52It wasn't enough.
26:53Now, I've got to ask you a question.
26:54Buddhism is often associated with peace.
26:57Why is that?
26:59Well, in the concept of Buddhism, and I think even in Christianity, there is a definition for peace.
27:10It's the inner peace, and we talk about being free from worries and anxieties and fear, and this thing is so important.
27:18But the only big and very huge difference between Christianity and Buddhism is that it's a personal quest of trying to search for that peace for the Buddhists without any intervention or help.
27:34While the Christians actually have a source of strength and help, present help that could actually obtain the peace.
27:48I'm from California.
27:49We have Silicon Valley, not too far from where I live.
27:52A lot of tech executives, they want spirituality.
27:56Everyone has that hunger for spiritual thirst and truth.
28:01But sometimes people don't want the God to be part of that.
28:06And so, Buddhism is oftentimes attractive to people in the tech industry, in Hollywood.
28:12But what eventually led you down the path to Christianity?
28:17Yeah.
28:18Again, I was saying the, you know, unanswered questions and inquiries since I was very young.
28:26Were you one of those kids that always asked why?
28:29Yes.
28:31And that's considered, like, the outlier of, you know.
28:35Troublemaker.
28:36Children.
28:37Yeah, troublemakers.
28:37And sometimes it just, like, overwhelm for my mom and my dad.
28:42But, of course, that helped me lead to my personal quest for answers.
28:48And I couldn't find the answer to what I was, you know, instructed to do, to follow, you know,
28:56to behave in certain way and with the minimum voice that should be heard as a child.
29:03And that's why, you know, the religious experience and upbringing in Buddhism has never fulfilled my really intense desire to embrace it, you know,
29:16with my own understanding, with my attached value to what I believe in.
29:22And I did not know what I was looking for.
29:25Somehow, you know, Nathan and I, we probably, you know, associate and some kind related because he also, you know, participated in Buddhism for a while.
29:38And we also, you did the martial art.
29:40I also did the martial art.
29:42So, it's really, I don't know, coincident.
29:44I need to be careful of making either of you mad.
29:48And so, yes, I was, like, growing up and thinking, why is it like this?
29:54And then why even ladies cannot become monks, you know?
29:59There is no equality.
30:01That is also one of the factors that really prompted me to, to find the search for, what is, what is this life for?
30:12Why, why we have to die and then be born again?
30:15And why they are suffering, you know, beyond our understanding?
30:20Why some children have to be born with, you know, some conditions?
30:23And is it fair to really believe that it's because of their past life, they did something really, really bad, and that caused them to have, to suffer such conditions?
30:37It sounds like you were really contemplating the injustice and the lack of equality and equity in this world.
30:47You saw the brokenness of this world.
30:51That's true.
30:51I think that's also prompted me to, to realize, you know, that there's something, there must be something much more.
30:58That, like, even love with my parents, I was so terrified to think about loving people pass away.
31:09Because I, I feel love is so intense that it shouldn't, you know, just end with our lives.
31:15But there must be some continuation, the next chapter.
31:19And that's why, so the, the sweetest thing of learning about God is that the promise for eternal life, the promise of the reunion with the loved ones.
31:31And so, this also has been very attractive to me.
31:35And so, coming back to how, how this thing led, lead, lead to my quest for Christianity.
31:43I was studying in a boys' school, you know, and that's why I learned martial arts.
31:47One missionary came, and he distributed health and family magazine.
31:58You picked it up?
31:59I, at first, I didn't, you know, and I saw him standing there at the entrance.
32:06And then, it was a Buddhist school, you know, it's a male, a boy's school.
32:14So, even some monks were sitting in our class.
32:17So, when he came.
32:19Wait, I got to ask you, what were you doing in the boys' school?
32:22Well, my, my dad never had a boy before he, he, he adopted, adopted a son.
32:30But, so, during that time, he really tried to make me one.
32:36You will be in the boys' school.
32:38So, I was in a boys' school, and then in a very strict Buddhist school.
32:43At that time, I was kind of like the, the, you know, the class president, kind of, you know.
32:51It's not a big deal.
32:52You were the class president of the boys' school.
32:55Yes, yes.
32:55Okay.
32:55Yeah.
32:56In that class, four girls and 30 boys, okay.
32:59So, I, I look at it, and then I saw my friend throwing the magazine, you know, in front of the missionary.
33:08And so, I felt compassion, and I felt like, hmm, it shouldn't be done that way.
33:14So, I went to him, and then I picked the magazines, and I gave to some of the friends who were, you know, coming still.
33:21And I said, throw it at home.
33:24Don't throw it in front of him, you know, like in, softly.
33:28And then they all picked it up, and they took it along with them.
33:33But I knew inside there were some address that you can write, you know, writing and studying about the Bible by mail, and nobody would be reaching out, you know.
33:46So, I decided, okay, at least let me try something here, because there is also about health.
33:52How old were you?
33:53Yeah.
33:53Seventeen.
33:54Okay.
33:55Yeah.
33:55So, there was also, like, lesson for health, which is also, like, makes sense to me, you know.
34:03We also, Buddhists also emphasize on, you know, healthful living.
34:07So, you were studying these little guides out, and then?
34:12Yeah.
34:12But I didn't understand.
34:14The idea of having God, you know, the God who created the universe was beyond my imagination, my understanding.
34:24And so, and then later, I was contacted by a pastor, and he shared with me the Bible.
34:33When I started reading, it was a shock to me, because Buddhism taught about kindness to all living things.
34:42Do not kill means refer to even an ant.
34:45I don't know whether it's about, you know, the fungus and the germs, but an ant should not be killed.
34:51And so, because of that, when the Bible talk about wars and conflicts, later, I understand it's not an ordinary battle with wars that we understand, but it's about the spiritual warfare.
35:07And so, because of that, I wasn't really into reading the Bible.
35:12After two, three months, then the pastor visited me again, and he asked me, how do you feel about reading the Bible?
35:20Do you find anything, you know, relevant to you?
35:24And I said, well, I don't understand a thing, you know.
35:29It's like a story, made of story.
35:31Anybody can come up with a story.
35:33And I, this is something that we can also find in Buddhism, in Hinduism, in other faith, you know.
35:41And he said, did you pray before you read, you know?
35:45And then I was like, oh, no, I never pray.
35:48I don't know how to pray.
35:49And then he started teaching me how to pray.
35:53I went back and I pray for wisdom.
35:57And I pray, God, if you are really there, you are true.
36:03And you're the creator of the universe.
36:06You know, you should be able to tell me and help me to understand what I'm reading.
36:14So, I pray earnestly at that time, and I end it in Jesus' name.
36:20And then I started, you know, picking up my Bible and then flip it randomly.
36:28And it took me to the story in the New Testament about the paralyzed man.
36:35Yeah, the man.
36:35The paralyzed man who came before Jesus.
36:38Yes, by his friends, you know.
36:41So, I started reading from the first verse in that chapter.
36:46And then the paralyzed man was actually being taken by the friends who actually heard about Jesus being present in the town at the house.
36:57And when they carried him to that place, and they found the house was full of people, and they couldn't penetrate, they couldn't bring the paralyzed man to meet Jesus.
37:08And so, they took extra effort, you know, taking him up on the roof, open the roof, and lower him, you know, to meet Jesus.
37:21When Jesus saw the man, the man, you know, look at Jesus, I started to cry.
37:31Suddenly, it was just so sudden, I didn't even know what was happening.
37:35I cried so hard that something was actually coming out of me.
37:42And something has to be out.
37:48Something has to come out.
37:50So, I was like crying, crying.
37:52It's like my chest was like feeling stiff.
37:55Like, probably about 20 to 30 minutes of time at the end.
38:03I was so tired.
38:04I realized something that actually God was actually speaking to me that, you know, you have to be humble.
38:15You are helpless, just like the paralyzed man.
38:19You realized, you realized in that moment that as you read that story of Jesus looking at that helpless person, that you sensed God looking at you.
38:32I thought I was good enough.
38:34You know, always I didn't do anything wrong that is really very serious.
38:42I didn't actually hurt other people.
38:45I didn't, you know, have ill riches for other people.
38:51So, I thought that was enough for me.
38:53So, it's kind of shocking to realize that, hey, you actually, you know, imperfect and you need God.
39:03You can't save yourself like what the Buddhists have been teaching you, that you can save yourself.
39:08You can bring salvation to yourself.
39:11You can go to heaven because of your own doings.
39:15Because we all realize that human nature is full of, you know, self-centeredness.
39:23And so, there is no way that we can save ourselves.
39:27We are just human beings.
39:28So, you really experienced in reading the story, the true condition of humanity is this helplessness and that we need Jesus' help.
39:39Unlike what you had experienced in Buddhism, which is this idea of your own personal search, your own personal journey, your own struggle, your own effort to find who God is.
39:51Now, from this very experience, was this the thing that, in your mind, done deal?
39:58Yeah.
39:58Well, you know, it's the beginning of everything.
40:03At the end, I could connect with things that happened in my life.
40:07Even before my encounter with God, I could see God's leading in my life.
40:12The past.
40:12In the past, yeah.
40:14And, you know, so when you have that encounter, your minds become prospered and you start to realize gratitude in everything that you have actually experienced and gone through.
40:29And it's so comforting for me to understand that my journey from now on is not a struggle between me, myself, and I, but me with God.
40:44And that is something that everybody can take and be encouraged, can also be, you know, strengthened in their way of living their life with a purpose.
40:58That's beautiful.
40:59You know, what you've described is very important.
41:02Oftentimes, because of this life and its brokenness, we are led to moments where we feel utterly helpless.
41:10But in those moments, those teach us really about our true condition and our condition requires that we need help.
41:19And there is one who does provide help.
41:21Thank you so much for sharing.
41:23I know we have more to talk about.
41:24So, we've been hearing from Oratai Cherson on her journey to peace.
41:30When we get back, we're going to be going to our live audience to take their questions for Oratai and Nathan.
41:36So, don't go anywhere.
41:37Welcome back.
41:52I've been talking with Nathan Krause and Oratai Cherson about their journey to finding peace.
41:58But now it's time to hand the mic over to our studio audience.
42:02Who has the first question?
42:04Right over there.
42:05This question is for Oratai.
42:07So, my friend, he converted to Christianity a few years ago and he never told his parents.
42:12And like you, he grew up in a Buddhist household.
42:15How did your conversion to Christianity affect your relationship with your family?
42:20This is very important, you know, for Buddhist children or even those who have to break the barrier of social relationship, you know, once they start embracing new faith and new spiritual journey.
42:35And so, I had, you know, confronted a really challenging time actually because it takes a courage, a huge courage to change.
42:48And especially Buddhism emphasize on being obedient.
42:52All this thing contradicts to what you're trying to exhibit after you receive the newfound faith.
43:00And so, I, you know, became Christian and got baptized without my parents' consent at, you know, around 18-ish.
43:10And my mom later, she came to know and she cried so hard and she said, why you don't love us?
43:21That is the question.
43:22Loving parents mean being obedient to them.
43:25I think it's the same concept with loving God, you're being obedient to God.
43:30And so, she said that, but I didn't say anything back, but in my mind, I said, I'm going to prove to you that what I believe now is true by my ways of, you know, demonstrating my lifestyle, my Christian lifestyles and how I will love you even much more, even further, you know.
43:50So, I, that time I was going to college, so I did my best, even though I knew very little English, but I went to English school and I tried, I, you know, my study was okay.
44:05I did everything that it would help prove that her thinking of me not loving her was wrong.
44:14And at the end, you know, she appreciate and, and it takes time to convince the other people to understand why you do things that you do, especially when it comes to faith.
44:26But, uh, over time with your personal testimony, your living testimony and how you love them, you know, uh, even, uh, remain to love them or even love them even further will help them to appreciate who you are, not because of only what you believe in, but who you are that God has actually transformed you to be.
44:49And who you are ultimately speaks loudly, loudly, uh, loudest, I should say, in the end.
44:57And I really love that, uh, emphasis on really loving your family better than you've ever loved them before.
45:04Excellent.
45:05Any other questions?
45:06Right over there.
45:07Orta, you mentioned that someone taught you how to pray.
45:11Could you share a little bit more about what you learned?
45:13Uh, before that, I had no idea how I, you know, must pray.
45:19And so, uh, I think for each one, you have different preferences, uh, but, uh, what we have to understand in the, in the moment of prayer with God is, is an intimate relationship between us and God.
45:34And, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh
46:04with God and help us to really understand His will in our lives. And as a result, prayer can be
46:14meaningful. When you earnestly asking, some people might be praying, show me this, show me that.
46:21It's, you know, for a miracle. What is a miracle? A miracle could be something to understand a Bible
46:28text, to realize how God loves us, to be able to, you know, appreciate and be thankful.
46:37In Buddhism, we don't have opportunity to touch the holy books. It's meant for monks, you know,
46:45and those who are actually in a priesthood. And that's why we listen from other people and we try
46:52to understand and try to make sense of it. But direct prayer to God, you know, expressing your
46:59concern or maybe even asking for forgiveness will help you to feel that close connection
47:06that help you to, you know, internalize things that you have never experienced before. And that is the
47:15beautiful thing that you can try. And yeah. And of course, at the end, when we pray to God, you know,
47:21we can ask for forgiveness. We can ask for, you know, understanding. We can ask for blessing for
47:28other people. We can ask for peace. We can ask for so many things for our children and loved ones.
47:36And at the end, I was taught that in Jesus' name we pray. And that is the sum up of everything.
47:44That it's not by our mind, by our good deeds, by our righteousness that God should answer our prayer,
47:49but by Jesus and His power over our lives.
47:53That's beautiful because everything you've described shows us that prayer doesn't have
47:59to take place in a church or around a pastor. It starts with where you're at and whatever
48:07situation you're in, God's ear is open to hearing that. We pray in Jesus' name. Beautiful.
48:13Any other questions? Right over there. So earlier, it was mentioned a gift and doesn't need to be
48:20earned. Is that fair to people of other religions that may live a really good life? Whereas say,
48:26there's someone that's a complete sinner and maybe a criminal that believes in Jesus. And because he's
48:33saved, he continues doing as he pleases because he was given a gift of being saved.
48:38Yeah. Some people call that cheap grace. And I've met Christians who believe that,
48:45that if I am saved by the blood of Jesus, he died for me. Therefore, now I can do whatever I want.
48:52But that's so opposed to the teaching of scripture because when you understand what God has done for
48:59you, when you come into that saving relationship with Jesus, it changes you. You don't continue to
49:06choose to live a sinful life. Jesus would heal people. And oftentimes they were ill because of
49:11their lifestyle choices or something. He would say, go and sin no more. That didn't mean go be perfect
49:16and never commit a single act of sin again, but it meant don't continue to live in sin. So this idea
49:22that I can live however I want, as long as I confess my sin and claim the blood of Jesus is really not
49:29true Christianity. Grace makes the gift of salvation free to us, but salvation isn't free. It cost God
49:38everything. Jesus died on the cross. God gave his only son so that we might have. So it's very expensive
49:45salvation, but to us it's free. So grace isn't cheap. It's free.
49:51Well said, Nathan. I think there are a lot of people who are turned off to Christianity because they see this
49:58version, this interpretation of grace that's not biblical at all, though it's said and communicated
50:06like it's biblical. But the way you're describing is beautiful because it shows us, hey, the same Jesus
50:12who said, neither do I condemn you also said, go and sin no more. Amen. Many times I've traveled and
50:19studied in Muslim countries and I've met Muslims who ask me, are you a Christian? And I always qualify,
50:25yes, but this is my brand of Christian. This is how I live. Because in their mind, that means, okay,
50:30you eat pork, you drink alcohol, you probably commit adultery, and then you go and, you know,
50:35pray to some saint for forgiveness and do the whole thing all over again the next day. And that's,
50:40that just seems so wrong to them that you're not trying to live a holy life. And so, yeah, we need to
50:45clarify to anyone, not just Muslims, but anyone who has this misunderstanding that Christianity means,
50:52yeah, you can live however you want and just ask for forgiveness. And that's the difference between
50:55Christianity and biblical Christianity. Yeah. Excellent. Any other questions? Right there.
51:03Some of us here in the United States, myself included, when we look at countries like Thailand,
51:08Korea, and Japan, it seems like it's much calmer, safer, less aggression and conflict, less drugs and
51:16alcohol abuse, less crime. Have you made that same observation? And if so, can you explain maybe why
51:23you think that's true? I think we all struggle with, you know, issues of sins. And in every place,
51:30you find good and bad people. Some are good at hiding it better than others. Yes. Probably,
51:36you know, one thing that I think that could give credit to
51:41the way people being raised in Buddhist concept and precepts is the self-control thing. And that could
51:51be one thing that contribute to, you know, probably the more managing behavior, the more thoughts on making
52:04a decision. That's right. But in another culture, you are more expressive. You are more verbalized in
52:15many ways. And you feel the right of owning your own body, owning your own, you know, territory in a way.
52:25And that's why the sense of harmony is probably not very much emphasized, but more on the individualistic
52:33nature of a man. Things seem the way they are. But you know what? I think in the West, you see what
52:41you see. But probably in where I have come from, they might be hiding behind under the rock. So again,
52:51I would say everywhere we experience that we all need peace that we are actually talking about. You know,
52:59peace with the people regardless of the differences we have and peace, the inner peace that we have,
53:08the internal peace that we have. And it's only come from God and who will help us.
53:14That's right. Nathan?
53:15Well, yeah, I think sometimes we've done a poor job of showing the world what Christianity is all about.
53:23So in a supposedly Christian nation or culture, sometimes we see what you're talking about,
53:30you know, with these behaviors that don't seem to be Christ-like. But we can't judge Christianity
53:35based on Christians. We should always look at Christ himself. And I think much of what you're sharing
53:42in Eastern culture is family is so important. And the family unit is more well-preserved. And that
53:49helps shape culture. But it doesn't mean that they have found the peace. Like you said,
53:55you were living in a world that seemed like it's less aggression and so forth. And yet,
53:59you were lacking inner peace.
54:00And to delineate, which I think is really important too,
54:07the USA is not a Christian country per se. It's a country with Christian roots, but not a Christian
54:13country. You know, even though we do realize, we do have a strong Christian culture present.
54:19I think it really sets up this idea too, that to many in the world, they perceive Christianity with
54:26the USA. And it's, it's just not. Equating that and then judging Christianity by what they see in our
54:31culture. It's not fair to, it's not a fair comparison. I like what you said, Nathan, which is
54:36Christ is our example, ultimately in the end. And I'm thankful that we have the record of Christ.
54:44In the book, in the Bible. And I love what you use your emphasis on prayer,
54:48that we can connect with God through Christ in prayer, wherever we're at.
54:52We're just starting out in our journey or we're just, you know, been in it for several years.
54:57Prayer is something that's available. Thank you so much for this discussion. It's been enlightening.
55:02We've talked about finding peace in a restless world and how true peace isn't found in bearing our
55:07trauma through distractions or trying to work harder to secure it for ourselves.
55:12But in Jesus, he has already paid for your salvation. And we can trust all our tomorrows to
55:19the one who holds eternity in his hand. The Bible tells the story of how one night Jesus and his
55:25disciples had gotten into a boat to cross the sea of Galilee. Suddenly a violent storm arose with strong
55:33winds and huge waves threatening to capsize the little boat. The terrified disciples tried their
55:40best to keep the ship afloat, but feared for their lives. Jesus got up and in a loud voice cried out,
55:47peace, be still. At once, the wind died down, the clouds rolled away, and the waves went back to
55:56quietly lapping the side of their boat. Your life might seem like that little boat being tossed on
56:03the waves and about to sink. But whether you're struggling with anxiety, uncertainty, or a restless
56:09heart, if you cry out to him like the disciples did, he too can speak peace into your life.
56:16Will you accept God's offer of peace today? Because I've found that God's peace is the only thing
56:24that can bring you true hope at night.