00:00My guest on the Europe Conversation this week is Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie
00:12Jolie.
00:13She says Europe and Canada must retaliate against Trump's tariffs and Canada will lead
00:19the way.
00:20Well, Melanie Jolie, Foreign Minister of Canada, thank you very much for joining us on the
00:26Europe Conversation.
00:27Thank you.
00:28Thank you, Shona.
00:29It's a pleasure to be here with you.
00:30We're here at the NATO Foreign Ministers' Summit and I want to ask you first of all,
00:33because it's also Marco Rubio, the U.S. Secretary of State's first NATO Summit.
00:38What was your engagement like with him today?
00:40Well, I've had many conversations in the past with the Secretary of State, with Marco Rubio.
00:47Today was much more informal because we haven't had the chance to sit down together alone,
00:56but we've been targeted and now we've, I've said that many times to many of my colleagues,
01:01we were the cannery in the coal mine and now they've just experienced it.
01:06So we are under three executive orders coming from the White House, one on our entire economy
01:12of 25% tariffs, which we were able to partly pause, but for 40% of all our goods being
01:20sent to the U.S., there's still 25% tariffs.
01:24We also have 25% on our steel and aluminum going to the U.S. and we also have 25% tariffs
01:31against our auto sector and we think that there will be other sectors.
01:36So based on that, we've led the charge to, because we didn't launch this trade war,
01:43and we know there are no winners in a trade war, but we came up with $60 billion worth
01:49of counter tariffs on American goods in Canada and also the Prime Minister, Prime Minister
01:57Carney, just announced that we will also retaliate 25% tariffs against auto and auto parts that
02:04are not covered by the trade deal we have with the U.S.
02:09So basically American cars and American parts coming to Canada but are not, that are not
02:16complying.
02:17What is the reaction from the White House to that, because Donald Trump said on so-called
02:21Liberation Day that any country that tries to retaliate, that he will increase further
02:25the tariffs.
02:28We're defending ourselves.
02:29We never started this trade war and it is clear to us, knowing so well the American
02:34people, that the American people don't agree with the actions coming out of the White House.
02:40The only way for President Trump to back off on his trade war is for American people
02:49themselves to say it's enough.
02:52And they are the ones that can create the political pressure within their own system
02:57to make sure that that's the case.
02:59And that's exactly why we launched an advertising campaign in 12 Republican states, red states,
03:05which clearly states what tariffs are, which it is, you know, tariffs are clearly a tax
03:13on hardworking Americans.
03:15Tariffs are also a tax at the gas pump.
03:18Tariffs are also a tax on their grocery bill.
03:23So we've made it clear to the American public and we're seeing that there is a lot of frustration
03:29within American society towards what's happening now.
03:34I think we have to retaliate.
03:36We need to defend ourselves.
03:37And so not only are we leading the charge, we're the country at this point that has imposed
03:43counter tariffs the most against US goods.
03:48We're working with the EU.
03:49I had just a conversation with the EU trade commissioner, Sepcovich.
03:55We're working also with Asian partners and we'll continue to put maximum pressure.
03:59If the EU, Canada, the strongest allies, I suppose, of the United States, but also
04:03trading partners all come together and apply tariffs, then the US will have no choice but
04:09to reverse its path.
04:11Well, at one point, American people will see that inflation is rising and people are losing
04:16their jobs and it will hit their wallet and they'll be mad.
04:21And I understand them.
04:23And at the same time, they'll know that the reason for that is because the president has
04:28decided to launch a trade war against many countries, including particularly Canada,
04:33in our case, and certain other allies, including, for example, the EU.
04:40And I think that American people are smart people, are reasonable people, are people
04:44that hate taxes, as pretty much all citizens on earth hate taxes.
04:50And so I'm confident that our approach will work.
04:57The Senate is also getting much more involved into this discussion.
05:04So we're following closely also what the Senate is doing in Congress in the US.
05:09But there's no country on earth that understands the most the US than Canada.
05:15And so we can share that knowledge with our friends and allies around the world, including
05:20in Europe.
05:21And meanwhile, we know we're too dependent on their economy.
05:25And we're the most European, non-European country on earth.
05:29And our goal is to also become closer to the Europeans.
05:33Part of the relationship with the US and Canada, the ambition of Donald Trump is a little bit
05:40different than just tariffs that he's saying that he would like to subsume or take or have
05:45Canada as the 51st state.
05:47I think when President Trump speaks, we listen and we take him to his word.
05:52I think that's really important.
05:55He's the most powerful person on earth.
05:57And therefore he has many tools in his toolbox.
06:01At the same time, this impact of the threat of sovereignty against Canada has rallied
06:08people in Canada around our flag.
06:11People are clearly saying that will never happen.
06:14We will never be the United States.
06:17We can be your best friends, best neighbor, best allies, but forget it, we'll never be
06:24your 51st state.
06:25When you think about the bellicose language about Canada and also Greenland, which is
06:29the semi-autonomous part of Denmark, what do you feel about his ambitions, though, as
06:34a president of the United States that is obviously much more muscular?
06:37Well, I think that, you know, we're at NATO here.
06:42One of the key articles at the core of the NATO agreement is to respect the sovereignty
06:48of all countries.
06:49It is also part of the UN Charter, as we all know.
06:53So we expect that the sovereignty of Canada and the sovereignty of Denmark is respected,
07:01period.
07:02And now, if we need to increase Arctic security amongst NATO, if we need to do more in the
07:11Arctic to counter the Chinese and Russian cooperation on the military front, no problem,
07:18let's do that.
07:19I know that the Trump administration is concerned about the Arctic, and I share their concerns.
07:25And I know we can work on making sure that we address these concerns, but it is not to
07:30the detriment of our sovereignty or the sovereignty of our other allies.
07:34And did Marco Rubio accept that?
07:37Well, you know, with me, when I speak with the Secretary of State, I don't give him
07:42an inch of possibility to challenge our sovereignty, period.
07:49It is not up to discussion.
07:50This is not something that we need to talk about.
07:54I'm Canada, you're the US, we're two sovereign nations, and we have a diplomatic conversation.
07:59That's it.
08:00I want to ask you about the Coalition of the Willing when it comes to Ukraine.
08:03Obviously, you know, certain countries, the UK and France have said that they're willing
08:07to put troops in Ukraine, but there needs to be a backstop, a support from the United
08:11States.
08:12Do you think that's forthcoming?
08:13Well, I can't talk for the US.
08:16It's up to them to answer your questions.
08:18But what I can tell you is Canada is willing to participate in that coalition.
08:23We have been...
08:24So we put troops on the ground in Ukraine?
08:25Well, of course, we're in an election right now.
08:28We need to make sure that if that's the case, that we get the support from Canadians beforehand.
08:35But we've been doing a lot of training for Ukrainian troops.
08:41Before the war was launched, Canada had already trained 30,000 Ukrainian soldiers.
08:47And we have an expertise in training, and we're training Ukrainians in country, outside
08:54of country as well.
08:56And we've been participating in all these very high-level meetings in London and also
09:03in Paris, because we believe, like all Europeans believe, that if we don't support Ukraine,
09:12we are next to a very dangerous Russia, which is the case for Europeans, which is the case
09:18for us in the Arctic.
09:21And Putin, President Putin, has no red lines.
09:25And if we're not able to get to a good deal in Ukraine, well, we will show not only President
09:32Putin that he can continue and therefore attack eventually NATO and therefore ourselves, but
09:40at the same time, being an Indo-Pacific country, we know very well that China is following
09:46very, very closely and could use this opportunity of lack of unity to ultimately go ahead in Taiwan.
09:54Just a final question.
09:55We saw the failure of the ceasefire in Gaza, and we've seen hostages still there, controlled
10:00by Hamas, and some of the most savage scenes of children losing their lives from Israeli bombs.
10:07What is Canada calling for Israel and America to do?
10:10Well, I think in the end, what we're seeing right now is just a lack of humanity.
10:15And we need to make sure that Israel and Hamas, through Qatar, are going back through
10:23the negotiation table.
10:25We always knew that the second phase of – or as the second phase of the ceasefire was coming,
10:34it would be much more difficult.
10:36But we need to make sure that that's the case, that there is ultimately hostages that
10:43are sent back in an honourable way also.
10:49And we need to make sure that the violence stops and that civilians are protected.
10:55We know that there won't – and Canada really profoundly believes that there will be no
11:00peace and security in the Middle East if there's not a two-state solution.
11:05Does Canada support the International Criminal Court?
11:07Absolutely.
11:08Yeah, because we saw Hungary leaving there today.
11:10Well, Canada founded, along with some other members, the International Criminal Court.
11:15We always thought that when we looked at the international system, what was lacking was
11:20the accountability of countries towards international law.
11:26And that's why we believe in it.
11:28Is it disappointing that one of your allies, Hungary, has decided to exit?
11:32Well, I think that it is indeed a problem when we don't see the strength of having
11:41accountability in a world where we know that it is ultimately a world that is more dangerous.
11:48Okay, Umela Yijoli, Foreign Affairs Minister of Canada, thank you very much for joining
11:52us on the Europe Conversation.
11:53Thank you, Fiona.
11:54Thank you so much.
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