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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Good afternoon.
00:00:29It's February 8th at 1202, and this is the Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:34I am your host today, Bill Finley.
00:00:36I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and the co-host of the Down the
00:00:39Stretch Show on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:41Hey, Bill.
00:00:42Nice to see you again.
00:00:43I'm Randy Moss, NBC Sports.
00:00:45No Zoe Cadman this week, so we'll lose some of the humor and insight from that, but we'll
00:00:50just have to pick up the slack, Bill.
00:00:53Won't be easy filling in for Zoe, of course, but you and I will do our very best.
00:00:56I want to remind you that each week, the Keeneland is the sponsor of the Thoroughbred
00:01:00Daily News Writer's Room Podcast, and we thank them for that.
00:01:03All right, Randy.
00:01:04The big news over the week, and it was a big afternoon for three-year-olds, most notably
00:01:09at Gulfstream Park.
00:01:11Let's start off with a race that was, you know, on paper going to be the one that you
00:01:14would think would have the most ramifications so far as the Kentucky Derby.
00:01:18That's the Holy Bull Stakes.
00:01:20Rocket Can wins it for Bill Mott, comes back a week later, Junior Alvarado and Bill Mott
00:01:25after winning the Beckett's World Cup.
00:01:26They stay red hot.
00:01:29Good news, bad news.
00:01:30I thought his trip made the race a lot more difficult than it looks on paper.
00:01:35That eight posts and a mile of 16, he was hung out wide on both turns.
00:01:39He overcame the wide trip.
00:01:41The bad news is only an 82 buyer and didn't beat the world's greatest field, but considering
00:01:47the way he won the race, the trip, how Mott is a trainer that's obviously going to get
00:01:52the best out of the horse as they progress, I think he belongs in the mix.
00:01:57As opposed to speed figures like Thoroughgraf or Ragusen, buyer speed figures don't take
00:02:03ground loss or weight into consideration.
00:02:06And Rocket Can was four wide around the first turn and three wide around the second turn.
00:02:11So what I like to do, you can take that 82 buyer speed figure that he got, which is really
00:02:17on the low end of the scale historically for the Holy Bull, and you could probably bump
00:02:21it up by six or seven points and really look at that as like an 88 or an 89, which puts
00:02:28him on the fringe of the conversation.
00:02:31I don't think it still makes Rocket Can an elite, in my opinion, top 10 Kentucky Derby
00:02:39contender right now.
00:02:42But he is improving.
00:02:43He is trained by Bill Mott.
00:02:44That's a good thing.
00:02:46But no, it was not a strong field.
00:02:48The runner up, the other mod horse, Shadow Dragon, it was pretty much the fact that he
00:02:52was just three quarters of a length behind Rocket Can, I think was an indication that
00:02:56it was going to be a slow race.
00:02:58And the big favorite, Cyclone Mischief, finished next to last with no excuse in the running.
00:03:04I texted Dale Romans this morning and asked if he had found any excuses for Cyclone Mischief
00:03:09physically, and he said no.
00:03:11So a disappointing performance for that heavy favorite.
00:03:13Yeah, I think we're on the same page here.
00:03:16I wouldn't put him in my top five or six at this point.
00:03:19But I think this is a horse that's probably going to get better.
00:03:21I think that a relatively slow buyer figure will lead a lot of people to kind of get off
00:03:27his bandwagon.
00:03:28But I think the trip was something that people really do have to look at.
00:03:32I mean, I picked the horse, and going into the first turn, I thought, well, forget about
00:03:36it.
00:03:37I mean, he's not going to be able to overcome this.
00:03:39But he did, and it was a good race.
00:03:41But the horse that came out of Saturday's card at Gulfstream has got everybody excited
00:03:44and for good reason is Tappet Trice.
00:03:47Now he ran a 92 buyer winning an allowance race on the card for Todd Fletcher.
00:03:52And boy, you know, he's got he checks a lot of boxes.
00:03:55Todd Fletcher, Luis Saez, 1.3 million dollar Keeneland September purchase.
00:04:00Now, I know this was only allowance race versus a graded stakes race for the Bill Moth Horse
00:04:06Rocket Camp.
00:04:08But I think most people, myself included, would think that the three year old that came
00:04:12out of Gulfstream on Saturday that has got the most upside and the most potential is
00:04:16Tappet Trice.
00:04:17Yeah, more on that name in a second, Tappet Trice.
00:04:20But to me, there's absolutely no doubt that if Todd Fletcher had entered Tappet Trice
00:04:25in the Holy Bull Stakes, he would have won it and he would have won it convincingly.
00:04:29I think he's an exciting prospect.
00:04:31He's got some some foibles to try to overcome.
00:04:35In three lifetime starts, all three races, he's come away from the gate sluggishly, and
00:04:41it seems to be getting progressively worse.
00:04:44In his second start at Aqueduct back in December, 16th of a mile out of the gate, he was six
00:04:50lengths off of the lead.
00:04:52He was carried out down the stretch in that race by a horse called Slip Mahoney, trained
00:04:57by Brad Cox.
00:04:58He was bumped a couple times, wide on the turn, managed to win anyway.
00:05:01So he really touted himself in that allowance race, and then he came back in Gulfstream.
00:05:05Wow.
00:05:06I mean, he looked really, really nice, again, getting off to kind of a sluggish start.
00:05:10Now what do they do with him?
00:05:12I talked to co-owner Mandy Pope, the majority owner, this morning, and Mandy said that most
00:05:19likely it's the Tampa Bay Derby on March the 11th, which gives the horse five weeks from
00:05:26the allowance race, which is the sort of in the wheelhouse of Todd Pletcher.
00:05:30The other alternative would be to run him a week earlier in the Fountain of Youth and
00:05:35keep him at Gulfstream Park.
00:05:37But if they do that, then they run Tappet Trice up against Forte, Todd Pletcher's other
00:05:42three-year-old, who has been pointed for the Fountain of Youth for a long time.
00:05:47So those are the two options.
00:05:49Todd will be the one to make that final decision.
00:05:51Now for the name, it's funny, I get a little anal about these things since I do television,
00:05:56to make sure you get the name right, okay?
00:05:59So it's by Tappet, obviously, out of a mare that ran for Steve Asmussen that was owned
00:06:03by Gainesway Farm that was named after the Italian word for female dancer, Danza Trice.
00:06:11That's the official correct pronunciation of the mare, Danza Trice.
00:06:16So Mandy Pope, I called her this morning and I said, so here's the thing, I've been hearing
00:06:21Tappet Trice, but I told her about the name of the mare and she said, I wasn't aware of
00:06:26that.
00:06:27She said, I actually think Tappet Trice sounds a little bit better than Tappet Trice.
00:06:32I said, well, it has the added benefit of being correct.
00:06:36So the name of the horse should be Tappet Trice.
00:06:39Mandy Pope said she's going to think about it.
00:06:41She's going to run it past the fan club and see what they have to say about it.
00:06:46So we'll see what this horse winds up being called as we go down the derby trail.
00:06:52Interesting stuff there, Randy.
00:06:53Okay, so we talked about the upside with Rocket Cam.
00:06:57Is this horse belong in your top five in the derby?
00:07:01I mean, he's only, you know, it was a race to get excited about for Tappet Trice or whatever
00:07:06the heck his name is, but it was just an allowance race.
00:07:10I mean, are we getting a little bit, you know, get a little bit carried away with this or
00:07:15is this horse worth, is the hype for real on this horse?
00:07:19I wouldn't put him in my top five at this point.
00:07:21I would probably put him, definitely put him in my top dozen.
00:07:26To me, it's got a Todd Pletcher Belmont stakes written all over it.
00:07:30If you could get down early for the Belmont stakes, that's what, that's what I would like
00:07:34to do with Tappet Triche or Tappet Trice.
00:07:38But he's obviously a horse with a tremendous amount of talent and we'll see how he runs
00:07:43in Tampa Bay and then probably the bluegrass after that.
00:07:46Yeah, we shall find out.
00:07:47So Todd Pletcher, we'll run him in the derby.
00:07:49Maybe he'll run third and then come back and win.
00:07:52We know he's not going to run in the brightness with that, if that's his route to through
00:07:57the spring.
00:07:58I want to talk about Chargent on Sunday, another Manny Pope horse, but let's go back a day.
00:08:03And Rad Ortiz, Randy, you know, it's amazing to me that not only is this guy the dominant
00:08:10rider in the sport right now, but he's going against his brother, Luis Saez, Javier Castellano,
00:08:16Tyler Gaff Leon, Junior Alvarado, forgive me if I'm leaving somebody out there.
00:08:23And yet it's like a one man show, it seems at times, where he is, if you talk about the
00:08:28best riders in the country, it seems to me he's in a class by himself and then everybody
00:08:32else is in a battle for who's the second best rider.
00:08:36And I know there were no big prices.
00:08:37I think the biggest price paid $740, I believe.
00:08:41But on Friday, he won, not only did he win seven races, he won seven consecutive races
00:08:47on the Gulfstream car.
00:08:48Now, there have been others that have won seven, including your partner on television,
00:08:52Jerry Bailey, Tyler Gaff Leon, Luis Saez has done it twice, and Paco Lopez, but nobody
00:08:57has ever won seven in a row.
00:08:59And, you know, it's just another amazing feat for a guy who, you know, he's still young
00:09:04in his career, but he's obviously going to go down as one of the greatest of all time.
00:09:08Yeah, that was a tremendous accomplishment.
00:09:10And if you look at probabilities, I'm kind of a numbers guy, which is no shock, I'm a
00:09:16buyer's speed figure guy.
00:09:17But out of the seven races, three were favored.
00:09:20One was co-favorite, and three were second betting choices.
00:09:24So you're talking about five to two, even money, nine to five, five to two, even money,
00:09:28six to five, five to two.
00:09:30The odds that in probability that all seven horses would win are eight in 10,000 or one
00:09:39in 1,250.
00:09:41Now, so that means that if you get any jockey in America who rides seven consecutive races
00:09:46with horses at that price, the odds are still more than one in 1,000 that you're going to
00:09:52win all seven races.
00:09:54So a tremendous accomplishment for Irad and obviously also a really good job by his agent,
00:10:01Steve Rushing, to put him on all of those live horses on one day at Gulfstream Park.
00:10:08Yeah, just an amazing feat.
00:10:09And he continues to amaze, picking right up where he left off from 2022 when he was Eclipse
00:10:13Award winning rider.
00:10:15All right, so let's go now to Sonny's Cardigalshire, not three-year-old, but this is an important
00:10:20horse and there's no doubt about it.
00:10:21I mean, we haven't seen Charge It since, we hadn't seen Charge It since July 2nd when
00:10:26he won the Dwyer by 23 lengths, getting a buyer figure, I believe that day, correct
00:10:31me if I'm wrong, Randy, of 111.
00:10:33It looked like he was well set up for the Travers, for maybe the Pennsylvania Derby,
00:10:38but lo and behold, he came up with some foot problems and Todd Pletcher, it really took
00:10:43him a long time to get him good.
00:10:45If this horse can stay healthy, what are we talking about this year?
00:10:49Now, the first start of the year, he comes out, wins an allowance race at Gulfstream
00:10:53only by a length and a half, but I think that was a little bit of a misleading margin.
00:10:57He was very comfortable crossing the wire to win for Luis Saez.
00:11:01Pletcher said afterwards the Met Mile and the Whitney are goals, didn't know how he
00:11:06was going to go from this allowance race into the Met Mile.
00:11:11With so few top horses from last year coming back this year to run, that older male dirt
00:11:19division is wide open and for the most part, fairly weak.
00:11:23I could see this horse being a major player this year.
00:11:26I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do.
00:11:29Another horse owned by Mandy Pope, Whisper Hill Farm, and bred by Mandy Pope.
00:11:34The horse is obviously tremendously talented.
00:11:37He's an exciting prospect looking forward.
00:11:39It's an older male division, as you pointed out, that's ripe for another star to come
00:11:44in and take advantage of the kind of talent that he has.
00:11:48Met Mile, I was told this morning, as you said, is the ultimate short-term goal right
00:11:52now for this horse.
00:11:55How to get there, they're looking at the Gulfstream Park Mile.
00:12:00It's coming up in a little more than a month as sort of a stepping stone to get to the
00:12:04Met Mile.
00:12:05It has the benefit of being at, obviously, Gulfstream, so I don't have to move him anywhere.
00:12:09That might be where we see Chargid next, and then, obviously, after the Met Mile, they'll
00:12:13stretch him out.
00:12:14There's a lot to look forward to there.
00:12:16Yeah, very exciting horse, and we'll see how he holds up.
00:12:19As long as he stays healthy, I mean, I literally could see him in the Horse of the Year picture.
00:12:22I don't see why not.
00:12:23There's so much potential there.
00:12:26The Keeneland Spring Meet is just around the corner, racing as it was meant to be.
00:12:31Tickets go on sale next Tuesday, Feb. 14 at 9 a.m.
00:12:34You can learn more at tickets.keeneland.com.
00:12:37During this year's upcoming Spring Meet, Keeneland will have a record stakes distribution
00:12:42of $8.05 million for 19 stakes races.
00:12:48The meet will cover 15 days from April 7th through April 28th.
00:12:52Now here's more from Keeneland.
00:12:54If this place could talk, it would roar.
00:13:04It would say, this is racing.
00:13:08This beating heart in the heart of horse country.
00:13:12Steady and strong beneath the roar.
00:13:16Reminding us why.
00:13:18For the love of the horse.
00:13:21For generations to come.
00:13:25He was just put together like a machine and he had a great mind.
00:13:28Everything about him was what you'd want.
00:13:30Tis the law, pops the cork and the champagne.
00:13:33Tis the law is gonna win the first leg of the Triple Crown.
00:13:37I've never seen him get tired.
00:13:38Respect the law.
00:13:40Tis the law.
00:13:41His structure is just perfect.
00:13:43His bone is perfect.
00:13:45He's left the others behind.
00:13:46He's gonna win the Run Happy Traverse.
00:13:49He's everything you would look for in a horse.
00:13:55The TD and Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:13:58Progeny of the Coolmore slash Ashford Stud Stallions were very active at the
00:14:02fairgrounds last week on Thursday in a maiden race on the grass.
00:14:06And Ashford sired exact them.
00:14:07Mendelsohn's March beat out Moe's Saturdays.
00:14:10Sons of Mendelsohn and Motown by disqualification, actually.
00:14:14Mendelsohn's nine winners this year.
00:14:16The most of any second crop sire also at the fairgrounds.
00:14:19The very next day on Friday, daughter of Justify,
00:14:22named Wonderful Justice, broke her maiden for trainer Brad Cox,
00:14:26also at a mile and one sixteenth on the turf.
00:14:30Well, let's turn our attention now to California,
00:14:32where the feature race on Saturday, a good car.
00:14:36There was four stakes races on Saturday at Santa Anita,
00:14:39but it's called the Robert B.
00:14:40Lewis Stakes, also known as the Bob Baffert Derby.
00:14:43He had all four starters in the race, 14 of the 16 nominees.
00:14:48And right now, the stranglehold, as we've talked about,
00:14:51that he has on three-year-olds in California is just unbelievable.
00:14:54So obviously, we knew Baffert was going to win,
00:14:57but it was actually, from a handicapping standpoint,
00:15:01somewhat of a competitive race on paper.
00:15:04I believe John White's line was, the line maker percent,
00:15:07he was seven to five, eight to five, nine to five,
00:15:09among the three top Baffert horses as they looked on paper.
00:15:15So who gets the job done?
00:15:17It's Newgate to win for Bob Baffert.
00:15:20From a buyer standpoint,
00:15:22we talked about the Holy Bull being slow with an 82,
00:15:25nothing too slow about this.
00:15:27It got a nice figure here of 100.
00:15:29So this doesn't make him Baffert's best horse,
00:15:32but it does move him up on the charts.
00:15:35But Randy, I thought the real story,
00:15:37please comment on what you thought of Newgate as well.
00:15:40But let's hold off.
00:15:41I want to talk about Frankie DeTorre,
00:15:43but first, just give us your impressions about Newgate.
00:15:45Yeah, look, I've got a pretty good job with NBC Sports.
00:15:49It's pretty cush.
00:15:50You get to go to races and get paid for it.
00:15:53One of the challenges, though,
00:15:54is in the immediate aftermath of a race,
00:15:58trying to give an opinion,
00:15:59especially when you're talking about three-year-olds
00:16:01preparing for the Kentucky Derby,
00:16:02trying to give an opinion
00:16:04on how strong the race was or wasn't.
00:16:08And visually, as Newgate was coming down to the wire,
00:16:11trying to run down hard to figure,
00:16:13he was on his wrong running lead.
00:16:15He was late switching over to his right lead.
00:16:18Visually, it didn't look like it was that fast of a race.
00:16:23And part of that was probably knowing that hard to figure
00:16:27was sort of the long shot of the field of four
00:16:31and had never run anything higher
00:16:33than an 80 buyer speed figure going in.
00:16:35So I gave the opinion immediately.
00:16:37And Jerry felt the same way too,
00:16:39that it was okay,
00:16:42but it certainly wouldn't have Frankie DeTore
00:16:45all excited about the first Saturday in May.
00:16:47Then later on, when we got up some breathing room
00:16:50toward the end of our two-hour program on NBC,
00:16:53I got a chance to go back on my computer,
00:16:56fire it up during a commercial break,
00:16:57and look at some of the other races
00:16:59run at the Santa Anita on that day, Saturday.
00:17:03And I was like, wow,
00:17:05this race is actually gonna turn out to be a fast race.
00:17:08Hard to figure made a huge jump forward,
00:17:12getting blinkers on for the very first time.
00:17:15And he was under a stranglehold
00:17:17sitting off a pace setter Arabian lion,
00:17:19went to the lead and was just run down by Newgate.
00:17:22Worcester ran a much improved race to finish third,
00:17:25even though he clearly wasn't as good on the day as Newgate.
00:17:29So the race turned out to be a lot better
00:17:32than I thought it was visually.
00:17:35And Newgate continues to move right along.
00:17:37The one issue that I have about Newgate
00:17:39in this particular race,
00:17:41there has been some concern
00:17:45over the last couple of months
00:17:46about how far Newgate wants to run.
00:17:49And he's buying into mischief.
00:17:51DeTorey did a good job in the sham
00:17:54of getting him back off the pace
00:17:56and relaxed back off the pace and then make a run.
00:17:58With the fast pace in front of him, it helped a lot.
00:18:01On Saturday, the pace wasn't quite as fast
00:18:04and DeTorey got him back into last,
00:18:06got him back into fourth comfortably.
00:18:07But then the horse got really keen,
00:18:10sort of borderline rank with DeTorey.
00:18:12And he had to move him behind hard to figure
00:18:15to try to get him settled down on the backstretch.
00:18:17And he ultimately did.
00:18:19But when you're trying to teach a horse to relax
00:18:22and get him to go a mile and a quarter,
00:18:24you don't really wanna see him being that keen
00:18:28during the early part of a race.
00:18:29So that's something that I know Baffert saw
00:18:32and Frankie DeTorey obviously commented on it
00:18:34after the race that they're gonna have to work on.
00:18:36All right, so then the other big story
00:18:38is Frankie DeTorey himself.
00:18:40He said when he came to California to ride at this meet,
00:18:44one of the main goals was to get a Kentucky Derby mount.
00:18:47Unless he blows them away in the Santa Anita Derby,
00:18:50Newgate is a 25 to one shot type,
00:18:53I would imagine, in the Kentucky Derby.
00:18:55But he does have DeTorey aboard.
00:18:59I don't think that's going to change.
00:19:00Some people say, well, if Baffert can't train the horse
00:19:03in the Kentucky Derby, would a new trainer put someone else?
00:19:06No, that's not going to happen.
00:19:08Now, the problem for DeTorey,
00:19:11and it's a nice problem to have,
00:19:12is that same day they run the 2000 Guineas in England,
00:19:15and he's got a mount on a horse,
00:19:17a Group One winner over there by the name of Chow Dien.
00:19:19Now, I haven't talked to Frankie about this,
00:19:21and I think the people that have,
00:19:24he said, let's just take it one thing at a time.
00:19:26But I'm guessing that because of his career,
00:19:30what he's accomplished and what he wants to do going out
00:19:34with this being his last year,
00:19:36I think he'd much rather ride in the Kentucky Derby,
00:19:39even on a 25 to one shot, than ride in the 2000 Guineas,
00:19:41a race he's won, I believe, three times.
00:19:44That's sort of what he's been all about,
00:19:46coming to the States, doing this farewell tour.
00:19:48I mean, you can win a bunch of 2000 Guineas,
00:19:52and it's just going to be one of many, many,
00:19:55many good wins in his career.
00:19:57If he somehow could win the Kentucky Derby,
00:19:59I mean, my goodness.
00:20:00So I'm guessing if he stays healthy
00:20:02and continues to progress,
00:20:04that Newgate's rider in the Kentucky Derby
00:20:07will be Frankie DeGioia.
00:20:08Yeah, really?
00:20:09Okay.
00:20:10So I see you don't agree, Mr. Moore.
00:20:12Look, I actually have a higher opinion
00:20:16of Newgate than you do.
00:20:17You said 25 to one.
00:20:19I mean, I wouldn't be surprised at all
00:20:21the way he's progressing to see Newgate
00:20:22be one of the five betting choices at the Kentucky Derby.
00:20:26But even so, Juddmont Farm, who owns Sheldene,
00:20:32has come out and said they are very keen
00:20:35on having Frankie ride the horse in the 2000 Guineas.
00:20:39Now, no, Frankie's never won the Kentucky Derby.
00:20:42He's only had one previous mount on China Visit
00:20:4523 years ago in 2000 for Godolphin.
00:20:48And he has won the 2000 Guineas
00:20:50on three different occasions,
00:20:51but he has a very close relationship with Juddmont.
00:20:55He rode in Abel for Juddmont
00:20:57in her back-to-back wins in the Arc de Triomphe.
00:21:01Andrew Balding has said he really wants
00:21:03to have DeTorre on the horse.
00:21:04And this is a situation where when DeTorre goes back
00:21:08to Europe and goes back to England for the rest of 2023,
00:21:12he's gonna be relying pretty heavily on clients
00:21:16like Juddmont Farm to put him on the very best horses.
00:21:19And not only did they say they're keen
00:21:21to have him ride Sheldene in the 2000 Guineas,
00:21:23but they're also keen to use him
00:21:25on many of their other top horses
00:21:27in his farewell season of 2023.
00:21:30So when you factor all of that in,
00:21:33I think it's gonna be very difficult
00:21:35for DeTorre to say no to Juddmont
00:21:38and to say no to Sheldene in the 2000 Guineas.
00:21:41Interestingly, in the aftermath of the Lewis win
00:21:45aboard Newgate, when NBC talked to him,
00:21:47that question was sort of posed to him.
00:21:50And in Frankie DeTorre fashion, he's a smart guy,
00:21:54he danced around it.
00:21:57That would have been a perfect opportunity,
00:21:58I think, for Frankie to say,
00:22:00I really, really am looking forward
00:22:02to the possibility of riding in the Kentucky Derby,
00:22:04but he was very noncommittal.
00:22:09So I would lean toward Frankie riding in the 2000 Guineas,
00:22:12even if Newgate is one of the top five riding.
00:22:16So I mean, this is just me talking and me guessing,
00:22:18but I think Frankie's last year is all about,
00:22:22what am I gonna tell my grandchildren?
00:22:24And 20 years from now, if he tells them
00:22:26that he won his fourth 2000 Guineas in 2023,
00:22:30they're gonna yawn.
00:22:32If he says he won the Kentucky Derby, then, oh boy.
00:22:34So anyways, that's just my,
00:22:36we have different reads on this,
00:22:37we'll see, again, a nice problem to have.
00:22:39And by the way, talking about Baffert,
00:22:41I just wanna mention quickly
00:22:43that the Triple Crown nominations came out this week.
00:22:46Brad Cox tops the list with 38,
00:22:49Todd Pletcher, second with 36,
00:22:51and Bob Baffert, third with 29.
00:22:54So the Kentucky Derby, no surprise
00:22:58that the nominees are dominated.
00:23:00I think somebody said that among the three of them,
00:23:01they have 28% of all the horses nominated
00:23:04for the Triple Crown.
00:23:06So it is going to be an interesting spring,
00:23:09but it looks like it's gonna be dominated
00:23:11by some of these super stables.
00:23:13And of course, we haven't mentioned it yet,
00:23:15but it's 300-pound gorilla in the room
00:23:17who will be training these Bob Baffert horses
00:23:20at Louisville for the Kentucky Derby.
00:23:22And when will they have to go into the care
00:23:25of those other trainers?
00:23:26That's what's interesting.
00:23:27That's still out there, they're still waiting
00:23:30as we tape this for a judgment
00:23:32from the judge that heard the appeal
00:23:34as to whether Baffert will have to move his horses
00:23:38by the end of February as Churchill Downs wants him to,
00:23:41or whether he will be suspended at all
00:23:43from the Kentucky Derby barred in 2023.
00:23:46So still some legalities left
00:23:49to be sorted out in that situation.
00:23:51Well, let me put my two cents in with this.
00:23:53And again, I don't know anything, maybe you do,
00:23:56but if he loses the case
00:23:59and he cannot train the horses,
00:24:01why wouldn't the logical choice be to go back to Tim Yakteen,
00:24:03a good trainer, loyal deputy, did this for him last year,
00:24:07didn't do anything wrong,
00:24:08wasn't lucky enough to win the Kentucky Derby,
00:24:10but you can't fault anything that he did.
00:24:12I think it'd be a pretty easy choice.
00:24:14And last year was a combination
00:24:15of Tim Yakteen and Sean McCarthy,
00:24:17guys that Baffert has had a previous relationship with
00:24:20that both worked for Baffert at one point or another.
00:24:22So I'm just guessing,
00:24:24and again, I don't know anything either,
00:24:25that those would be the two most likely suspects.
00:24:29The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you
00:24:30by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA.
00:24:34Having a PA bred or PA sired PA bred
00:24:38is a good way to recoup your initial cash outlay on horses.
00:24:42There are two-year-old races, of course, restricted and open.
00:24:45$1.65 million in two-year-old stakes purses for PA breds
00:24:50or PA sired PA breds,
00:24:53including $1 million in that stallion series
00:24:56that we've been talking about.
00:24:57Also, up to 50% breeders awards and 40% in owner bonuses.
00:25:03For example, last year's leading PA sired PA bred
00:25:06two-year-old, Flor de Sombra, made $320,000
00:25:11but received $120,000 in breeder awards.
00:25:16We'll be right back after this message from the PHBA.
00:25:19Here in Pennsylvania, we're proud of our breeding program,
00:25:22the best in North America,
00:25:24but we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.
00:25:27The PA Horse Breeders Association
00:25:28is funding cutting-edge research at PenVet
00:25:31to detect gene doping in thoroughbreds,
00:25:33and we endorsed the SAFE Act
00:25:35to help protect the most vulnerable horses.
00:25:38Plus, we're pleased to support the aftercare programs
00:25:41set up by our horseman's groups.
00:25:42Just a few of the reasons why
00:25:44you should join us in Pennsylvania,
00:25:46the premier place to breed and race.
00:25:50Now it's time for the fastest horse of the week,
00:25:52brought to you by Windstar Stallions.
00:25:54Which stallion was a dominant winner
00:25:57of the Grade 1 Clark in 148.84,
00:26:01earning a 105 buyer speed figure,
00:26:03or ran 10 triple-digit buyer speed figures,
00:26:06including 109, 106, 105, et cetera,
00:26:09and nine in a row stopped the clock in the Stephen Foster
00:26:12at 147.30, two one-hundredths of a second
00:26:16off the track record?
00:26:17The answer, Tom's d'Etat,
00:26:19whose first yearlings sell this year.
00:26:23It's a whole lot of fast for a stud fee
00:26:25of just $10,000 at Windstar.
00:26:29Now, the fastest horse of the week,
00:26:30a horse that we have already talked about
00:26:32in terms of buyer speed figures,
00:26:34Chargette, who earned a 102 buyer
00:26:37for that allowance win at Gulfstream Park on Sunday.
00:26:41Owned by Whisper Hill Farm, as we said,
00:26:43trained by Todd Pletcher,
00:26:44Chargette made his comeback a very impressive one,
00:26:48and a horse that we'll be looking forward
00:26:50to seeing down the road.
00:26:51Ultimately, we hope in the Met Mile at Belmont Park
00:26:56on Belmont Stakes Weekend.
00:27:01The Green Group Guest of the Week
00:27:03is sponsored by The Green Group,
00:27:04an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm
00:27:07specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:27:09Over 500 clients in the horse business,
00:27:11they have proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:27:13Learn more about how they can help you
00:27:15at www.greenco.com.
00:27:19And we welcome in now
00:27:20the Green Group Guest of the Week,
00:27:21Amr Zidane.
00:27:22He is the co-owner of Country Grammar,
00:27:24the owner of Teba, the owner of Arabian Lion,
00:27:27the owner of Medina Spirit,
00:27:29across the wire, first in the Kentucky Derby.
00:27:31So many good horses, Amr,
00:27:32but the one that everyone is talking about now,
00:27:35for good reason, is Arabian Knight.
00:27:37He's number one on most people's polls
00:27:39after an explosive win in the Southwest Stakes.
00:27:42I know I was blown away by the race,
00:27:44I know most people were,
00:27:45I bet you Zoe was as well.
00:27:47What was your impressions of the Southwest?
00:27:50We were just hoping he would show up.
00:27:53I mean, he's, well, first of all,
00:27:54thank you for having me.
00:27:55I appreciate your time and having me on board.
00:28:00We just hoped he would repeat his first time out in Keeneland
00:28:05and it was, the conditions were a bit challenging.
00:28:08You know, it was raining, there was a travel,
00:28:10but I guess we were trying to sort of fast track
00:28:12his educational process.
00:28:14And I commend Bob for making the call
00:28:17and actually taking him there
00:28:20and showing us the performance he has displayed.
00:28:25Was there ever any doubt with him?
00:28:27Because it took him quite a while to get to the races
00:28:29and everyone turned around when Bob took him to Keeneland
00:28:32to break his maiden.
00:28:33They're like, why is he bringing a maiden
00:28:35on Breeders' Cup then?
00:28:36I know why he's bringing a maiden,
00:28:38because he wants to show off.
00:28:40And he's simply shown off in each of his two starts.
00:28:43Like he's just shown some brilliance
00:28:46that I don't think we've seen
00:28:47from any other three-year-old this year.
00:28:49He has, he's a special horse
00:28:51and you really don't know what you have
00:28:53until you actually see them on the track
00:28:54and perform in the afternoon.
00:28:57Again, Bob obviously is the greatest trainer
00:29:01in the history of horse racing and in dirt as well.
00:29:04So he knows, he knows a good horse when he has one.
00:29:07And ever since we saw him in the sale,
00:29:09Bob was quite adamant that he is a good horse
00:29:11and hence the price tag that came along with it.
00:29:14But to actually be this courageous
00:29:17and take him out of his comfort zone in Santa Anita,
00:29:20that's where he trains, that's where he's based.
00:29:21And he was a two-year-old at the time
00:29:23and sustained the travel and a new stable
00:29:27and new environment.
00:29:28I think that took a lot of reading from the trainer
00:29:30and a lot of performance
00:29:32and gutsy performance from the horse.
00:29:33So we were glad everything came together.
00:29:36When you go to the sales at the end of the day,
00:29:38you're gonna come away with not a lot of horses,
00:29:40but you're gonna come away
00:29:41with some very expensive horses for the most part.
00:29:45Obviously Medina Spirit, one of the exceptions.
00:29:47$1.3 million for this horse.
00:29:50When you and the team go to the sales,
00:29:52Bob, Gary Young, et cetera,
00:29:54is winning the Kentucky Derby the foremost goal?
00:29:56Yeah, I mean, that's kind of our game plan, right?
00:29:59So the way we do it is we have our scouts.
00:30:03They're there.
00:30:05Gary, Donato, and the team as well.
00:30:10Charlie as well.
00:30:11And then everything kind of reports back to Bob.
00:30:14And then Bob and I have a sit down
00:30:16and we decide what are the right horse
00:30:19that fit our program.
00:30:20Our program is specifically tailor made
00:30:23for the Kentucky Derby.
00:30:25So every horse we target is a Kentucky Derby,
00:30:29hopeful in our imagination, if you will.
00:30:33Now, obviously you can't get a winner every year,
00:30:35but if you fall short of that,
00:30:38then you have the rest of the year of a great campaign.
00:30:42We call it the arrogate trail, if you will,
00:30:44or the flight line trail, if you will.
00:30:46And then from there, you can get off to the Middle East.
00:30:49I look at the, obviously I love horses
00:30:51and I've been around horses for a long time,
00:30:53both on the polo side and on the racing side,
00:30:55more recently than polo.
00:30:57But I have an appreciation to a good horse.
00:30:59I can kind of tell when a good horse is a good horse.
00:31:03So that's kind of how we look at it.
00:31:06We look at it as a portfolio, right?
00:31:07I mean, we don't care if the horse costs 35,000
00:31:10or costs 3.5 million or 4 million.
00:31:13At the end of the day, it's a portfolio.
00:31:16A good horse would carry the whole portfolio
00:31:19for any given year's vintage,
00:31:21because that's how we look at it,
00:31:22as an investment portfolio of vintage 2022,
00:31:26vintage 2021, et cetera.
00:31:29So that's kind of the first box.
00:31:31The second box is we're focused strictly
00:31:36on the racing angle, right?
00:31:37So we don't really venture out into the breeding side.
00:31:41There's a lot of, it's a different,
00:31:43it's a different, it's a different business, so to say.
00:31:48So if you sort of calculate all the costs
00:31:51and the weight and the anticipation
00:31:53and the praying that goes into breeding a mare
00:31:56to a stallion and hopefully,
00:31:57hoping that you get a stallion or a great filly,
00:32:02or sorry, you get a great colt or a great filly,
00:32:05that equals to money.
00:32:06So we don't mind paying a premium,
00:32:08short circuit, all that good.
00:32:10Alma, talk to me about your team.
00:32:12How did this team start?
00:32:13How did you hook up with Gary?
00:32:15How did you hook up with Bob?
00:32:17I mean, this is a team that is just seemingly plucked
00:32:19from different places.
00:32:22I mean, look, it's, I mean, it's just God's work.
00:32:27You know, it's just, we feel really blessed
00:32:29and it's just good intentions
00:32:32and wanting to basically all pull together
00:32:35in the same direction.
00:32:36So this whole thing came about obviously with Bob.
00:32:40I met Bob at the Dubai World Cup.
00:32:43I think it was, I forgot, like 2017, 2018.
00:32:48And we sort of had a small talk.
00:32:51And you know, Bob is very courteous.
00:32:53I mean, he just talks to everybody
00:32:54and we're just talking horses.
00:32:56And we swapped numbers and we said,
00:32:57let's stay in touch and see what we could do together.
00:32:59So I was kind of on my way out of the sport.
00:33:02Gary, I met through Victor Espinosa
00:33:05and I met obviously Victor through my small partnership
00:33:09in California Chrome.
00:33:10So we built up the relationship.
00:33:12He became a good friend, was at my wedding and whatnot.
00:33:15So we kept that rapport, that communication.
00:33:17So sure enough, he made an introduction to Gary
00:33:21and we just kept talking for a couple of years.
00:33:23It wasn't until really I met Bob or re-met Bob again.
00:33:27I had, I mean, this is just all a coincidence.
00:33:29I happened to have to rush back home
00:33:32and I had to catch a flight from Dubai airport.
00:33:35As I was walking out of the terminal,
00:33:37Bob walks in the terminal, he's like,
00:33:38Bob, what are the odds?
00:33:40So he had a bit of time and I had little bit of time
00:33:43and we just basically sat down
00:33:45and I kid you not, on a Kleenex tissue,
00:33:49we sort of, we just started imagining
00:33:52and started drawing up everything we would want to do.
00:33:55I mean, my ask was two triple crowns.
00:33:58He was like, I hope I live that long.
00:34:00So that was February, I think it was Feb, 2022.
00:34:09He was on his way to Saudi as well.
00:34:10So we drew up that plan and then obviously
00:34:13here comes shopping season, was shifted because of COVID.
00:34:18Gary was there and we just started buying horses
00:34:24and the secret recipe here is buy horses.
00:34:30Buying good horses, fast horses,
00:34:33because speed wins races.
00:34:35And obviously when you have the trainer
00:34:39and the experience in the form of Bob,
00:34:41it makes things a lot easier.
00:34:43And that's the formula really.
00:34:46And obviously we lean a lot on Bob's team.
00:34:50Bob has an amazing team assembled
00:34:53in the form of Donato Lani.
00:34:55He needs no introduction as well from me.
00:34:57He's been really instrumental obviously
00:35:00in advising as well from the outside inside.
00:35:02And I carry much respect for Donato and his ability
00:35:05as an integral part of our team.
00:35:09Now, obviously the Kentucky Derby
00:35:11you said is very important to you,
00:35:12but so is the Saudi Cup.
00:35:13There's no doubt about that.
00:35:15You are from Saudi Arabia, it's your home race.
00:35:17I was wondering, and I'm getting way ahead of myself,
00:35:20but when you have a star three-year-old like Arabian Night
00:35:24and some of the others you've had,
00:35:26is there much less incentive to retire them
00:35:30at the end of their three-year-old years
00:35:32because the next big goal is right in front of you
00:35:34with the Saudi Cup?
00:35:35Teba being an example of that.
00:35:38True.
00:35:38I mean, look, I'm from Saudi.
00:35:39I also serve on the equestrian authority,
00:35:42which is the supreme equestrian authority, so to say.
00:35:44So we oversee the whole equestrian space.
00:35:47So I feel this attachment obviously to my home country
00:35:49and wanting to showcase the best horses
00:35:51that North America has to offer.
00:35:53It's certainly what I do as Zidane Racing own as well.
00:35:57But again, the way we run the operation,
00:35:59it's strictly a North American operation.
00:36:01It's a US-based operation.
00:36:04And the way we make decisions are,
00:36:06A, strictly and solely done by the trainer.
00:36:10And then second, we really take in consideration
00:36:13what is good for the horse.
00:36:15The horse usually tells us what he or she
00:36:18at the end of the day would like to do.
00:36:21Usually taking two-year-olds into Saudi Arabia,
00:36:24as promising as they may be,
00:36:26or to the Middle East in general,
00:36:27to Dubai for that instance, is a tall order.
00:36:30It's a big ask, right?
00:36:31And we would like to be conservative with our horses,
00:36:34specifically when we have really good horses
00:36:37that would potentially deliver our aspiration
00:36:41or our program, which is to show up
00:36:42on the first Saturday of May.
00:36:44So that's kind of a decision-making process.
00:36:46However, what would fit perfectly in our program
00:36:52is once they turn into their four-year-old campaign season,
00:36:57case in point would be Teba, for instance.
00:36:59He's graduating from three to four.
00:37:00So that would be an ideal spot.
00:37:04And I think that's what we will probably stick to.
00:37:08Now, going back to the Saudi Derby or the UAE Derby,
00:37:12I rarely see the top two-year-olds
00:37:15in North America coming in
00:37:17because it's just too early, too much, too soon for them.
00:37:20So we're very conservative.
00:37:22Unless we have a two-year-old, and I hate saying this,
00:37:25but we think is more of a end-of-the-year sort of horse
00:37:29as opposed to a Kentucky Derby horse,
00:37:31then the decision lies on the trainer,
00:37:33whether he would like to take the risk,
00:37:35the calculated risk, in sending him into the Saudi Derby
00:37:38and staying out the Kentucky Derby.
00:37:41Alma, you've won the Derby.
00:37:43You've lost the Derby.
00:37:45I mean, you have experienced the highest of highs
00:37:48and the lowest of lows.
00:37:50Some people would have just picked up all their toys,
00:37:53put them back in their buggy,
00:37:54and just disappeared after that.
00:37:56What keeps bringing you back?
00:37:58Look, I won the Derby, right?
00:38:01But I haven't lost it yet.
00:38:05Right? So there's a big yet there.
00:38:08No, right now we're in the appellate process
00:38:10and we are fully engaged.
00:38:12And look, I mean, let the chips fall where they may.
00:38:17I think we've got a great team.
00:38:18I honestly think we have a solid case.
00:38:21Once the facts are objectively reviewed,
00:38:24I think everything will be reinstated.
00:38:25That's kind of my prerogative and my conviction,
00:38:27if you will.
00:38:28So that's one.
00:38:30Two, I firmly believe everything happens for a reason,
00:38:33right?
00:38:34I mean, I just never felt any ill feelings
00:38:38or any animosity towards Churchill Downs
00:38:42or towards anyone for that matter.
00:38:44It's a sport.
00:38:47It's part of the sport,
00:38:48but the blessings that come out of it.
00:38:50And I really believe that everything ordained by God
00:38:55is there for a reason.
00:38:56This sort of issue
00:39:00has really brought the team together, right?
00:39:03And it has really demonstrated to us
00:39:06that in tough times and under stress,
00:39:10things shine like diamond, if you will.
00:39:12I know it sounds cliche,
00:39:13but that's kind of where we are right now.
00:39:16So A, the team just really stuck together.
00:39:19And B, look, it's an amazing sport.
00:39:23I had a bit of a health scare in the summer.
00:39:26And again, I don't mean to sound too sentimental here,
00:39:31but the only thing that really,
00:39:33I mean, one amongst other things that kept me going
00:39:35is the love of my horses.
00:39:36And it's the racing activities we have.
00:39:40And just after surgery, calling my first call,
00:39:43believe it or not, was to Bob.
00:39:44I'd say, Bob, how are we doing?
00:39:45And the whole team, the way we came together.
00:39:47So that's something I'll never forget.
00:39:49So it's that.
00:39:50And obviously, once you're up there on the podium
00:39:53and carrying the Kentucky Derby trophy,
00:39:55I mean, that feeling is difficult to describe.
00:39:57You just want to do it again and again and again.
00:39:59So that's the plan.
00:40:01Are you, sorry,
00:40:03are you ever going to have a breeding operation?
00:40:05Because I know you sold Princess Noor at the Fasig sale.
00:40:10Is this going forward going to be your mantra?
00:40:12You're just buying to race.
00:40:15You're not going to buy the farm
00:40:16and breed your horses and get bigger.
00:40:20I think I'm too young for that right now, right?
00:40:24Get on a rocking chair on the porch and watch my kids.
00:40:27Not to belittle any of the phenomenal operations
00:40:31that are out there.
00:40:32Look, I mean, right now,
00:40:35again, I approach it from a business point of view.
00:40:37I would love to have a breeding operation.
00:40:39I would love to have the Coolmore operation,
00:40:42the Windstars, the Spendthrift, the Lanes End,
00:40:45and what have you, the Juddmonts.
00:40:48But I think it's a bit too early for us, really.
00:40:51I enjoy the sales.
00:40:53I enjoy potentially creating stallions, right?
00:40:56So I really love that.
00:40:57So it will probably be a long ways away
00:41:00until we get into that.
00:41:02Now, I'm not going to deny that it's not on my mind,
00:41:05but I think for the foreseeable future
00:41:07between now and five years,
00:41:08I think we're just going to stick to the racing
00:41:10and then we'll see where that takes us.
00:41:13Amir, let's switch gears for a moment and talk about,
00:41:15we've been spending so much time
00:41:16and well-deserved on Arabian Night.
00:41:19What about Teba?
00:41:20Here's a horse who had a phenomenal year,
00:41:23three grade ones.
00:41:24You got to be very satisfied
00:41:25with everything that he accomplished.
00:41:27Unfortunately, he didn't run his best race
00:41:28in the Kentucky Derby.
00:41:29The Eclipse Award race for the three-year-old
00:41:31with Epicenter was one of the most closely contested
00:41:34of all Eclipse Award races.
00:41:36Number one, did you expect to win?
00:41:38And number two, were you disappointed that you didn't?
00:41:42I congratulate Ron Winchell for an amazing horse.
00:41:45And I walked up to him and shook his hand
00:41:47in the Breeders' Club.
00:41:48And I was really hurt to see the horse hurt
00:41:51and retire early.
00:41:52He was just a phenomenal, phenomenal colt.
00:41:55And I congratulate him for that.
00:41:58And I thank him, obviously, for Gunrunner as well.
00:42:01What a phenomenal stallion who obviously gave us Teba.
00:42:07With regards to, sorry, what was the question again?
00:42:11Did you expect to win?
00:42:12And how disappointed were you
00:42:13that you didn't win the Eclipse Award?
00:42:15Oh, okay.
00:42:16So did I expect to win the Eclipse Award?
00:42:20No, I did not.
00:42:21I was very hopeful.
00:42:24Unfortunately, the Eclipse Award has just proven
00:42:27to be, for me, in my view, very political, if you will.
00:42:33Why?
00:42:34And that's not to take away from anyone else.
00:42:36Last year, we had the best horse,
00:42:40a horse that won the Kentucky Derby
00:42:43and went around to win, obviously, the Awesome Again.
00:42:46I think it was the Awesome Again.
00:42:48It was a great one.
00:42:50Showed up phenomenally in the Breeders' Club.
00:42:52Came second to Next Go.
00:42:54Hands down beat all the members of his crop, right?
00:42:58Essential quality.
00:42:59He beat essential quality any given day, any given race.
00:43:03And with that, we did not win the Eclipse Award.
00:43:06This year, I think we had,
00:43:09I think we won kind of three and a half grade ones.
00:43:11The Haskell was kind of half a grade one
00:43:13because we've almost had it.
00:43:16But look, I didn't expect to win the Eclipse Award,
00:43:22but I thought we might have at least a lot more votes
00:43:26than we got, right?
00:43:27And I thought we should have had been more
00:43:30than the 66 or 60 votes we got,
00:43:32just to make it a bit of a closer race.
00:43:35I don't remember a horse that had won three grade ones
00:43:40that hasn't at least gotten more votes
00:43:42or let alone win the Eclipse Award.
00:43:45So there is that element of disappointment.
00:43:48And I think there needs to be more reputed Oscars,
00:43:55if you will, for horses other than the Eclipse Award.
00:43:57And that's something I will definitely advocate
00:44:00and see if Saudi Arabia could potentially adopt one
00:44:04that would eclipse the Eclipse Awards.
00:44:08What's in the pipeline for,
00:44:10you've got several young horses coming forward.
00:44:13I know there's one that I fell in love with
00:44:15at the Saratoga sale.
00:44:16Quality rode out of, I think I saw a pretty cat,
00:44:19now a two-year-old.
00:44:21Can you give us an update on this one
00:44:23and where is this one likely headed?
00:44:28Are you referring to the Colt or the Philly?
00:44:29Because we have two, we have a Colt and a Philly.
00:44:31The Colt.
00:44:32The Colt.
00:44:33The Colt looked amazing.
00:44:34And to be honest, I was.
00:44:36And the Philly, and the Philly, both of them actually.
00:44:38Yeah, both of them are with Mr. Eisman,
00:44:40with Barry Eisman's right now.
00:44:43And Donato visited with them,
00:44:45reported back obviously to Bob
00:44:46and they're doing quite well.
00:44:48I mean, they looked the part.
00:44:52Quality Road has been a phenomenal stallion.
00:44:54So we're very hopeful.
00:44:55So they're doing what they need to do.
00:44:57And hopefully we'll see them in Santa Anita,
00:45:01perhaps sometime summer or pre-summer-ish.
00:45:05And let's see.
00:45:06Yeah, I mean, they're doing phenomenally well.
00:45:09What do you do for fun?
00:45:10You're at the polo club, do you play polo?
00:45:12I mean, what does Amazidan do for fun?
00:45:16Well, I play polo.
00:45:18So that's something my heart set on.
00:45:22And I obviously chair the Saudi Polo Federation
00:45:25in Saudi Arabia.
00:45:26So, I mean, I'm responsible for developing,
00:45:28promoting and regulating the sport.
00:45:29So I do that.
00:45:31I play soccer.
00:45:32I play, I picked up paddle just recently.
00:45:36I play anything with a racket, squash.
00:45:41So yeah, I'm into sports a whole lot.
00:45:42So I do that.
00:45:44I love to work.
00:45:45I mean, we've got an amazing setup back in Saudi Arabia.
00:45:48And I do have a business interest in the US.
00:45:52Obviously I was born in California.
00:45:54My parents went to school there and I went to school there.
00:45:57So I have a lot of business interests there
00:45:59that I consider fun.
00:46:00And they just really give me a lot of satisfaction
00:46:05and a lot of enjoyment.
00:46:07Can't wait to see you back in Southern California.
00:46:09I can't wait to be back soon.
00:46:11And hopefully prior to Breeders' Cup,
00:46:13maybe we'll see if I make it in the summer.
00:46:16So, I mean, I really miss it
00:46:19and I can't wait to be there again for sure.
00:46:22Well, Amazidan, thank you so much
00:46:24for joining us here this week
00:46:25on the TDN Writers' Room podcast.
00:46:27Congratulations on all your success
00:46:29and good luck going forward
00:46:30with a very exciting three-year-old call
00:46:32by the name of Arabian Night.
00:46:33Thanks again.
00:46:34The Green Group guest of the week
00:46:36is sponsored by The Green Group,
00:46:37an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm
00:46:39specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:46:42As this week's guest of the week,
00:46:43Amazidan will receive a free one-hour tax consultation.
00:46:47Learn more at www.greenco.com.
00:46:50Be right back after this message from The Green Group.
00:46:53Why do the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen
00:46:55select The Green Group as their tax advisor?
00:46:57We simply save them money.
00:46:59And know how to make them more successful.
00:47:00Over the past 40 years, founder Leonard Green
00:47:02has owned and bred some of the best racehorses
00:47:05in the history of the sport.
00:47:06His in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge
00:47:08combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies
00:47:10has produced positive results for his clientele
00:47:12and has made The Green Group
00:47:13the top-rated accounting and tax firm in the business.
00:47:16For a confidential and complimentary consultation,
00:47:18contact us at 732-634-5100
00:47:22or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:47:25The Green Group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:47:29With some of the fullest fields in the country
00:47:32and quality racing year-round,
00:47:35there's never been a better time to reap the rewards
00:47:37of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:47:41Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high,
00:47:44as is average purse per race,
00:47:46outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:47:50Kentucky breads.
00:47:51Breed them.
00:47:52Raise them.
00:47:53Race them.
00:47:55We all win.
00:47:59The TD and Writer's Room is brought to you
00:48:00by the Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders, KTOB.
00:48:04Pegasus World Cup champions were bred in Kentucky.
00:48:07Art Collector, first of all, the seventh Kentucky bred
00:48:10to win the Pegasus World Cup in its eight-year history.
00:48:13Then there's also Atone,
00:48:15who won the Pegasus World Cup turf, Kentucky bred,
00:48:18and Queen Goddess, who won the Pegasus World Cup
00:48:21Philly and Mare turf, also a Kentucky bred.
00:48:24And speaking of those nominations for the Kentucky Derby,
00:48:27369 nominees, 285 Kentucky breds.
00:48:33Hey, Randy, going back to the seven consecutive wins
00:48:37for Irad Ortiz, has that happened before in racing?
00:48:40And if so, how many times?
00:48:41Yeah, I just got an email from Equibase,
00:48:46Rhonda Norby, thanks to Rhonda and the crew at Equibase
00:48:48for running the stats.
00:48:49I asked if any jockey had done it previously to Irad
00:48:53on a single day at a track,
00:48:56not going from one day to the next.
00:48:59And it had been done actually five other times,
00:49:02twice at marquee downs in Canada,
00:49:05once in 93 and once in 2001
00:49:07by riders named Tim Moccasin and Jack Wash.
00:49:11It happened at the Brockton Fair in 2001,
00:49:13a jockey named Howard Lancey.
00:49:16And David Gall did it twice at his old stomping grounds,
00:49:21Fairmont Park, back in 1981 and 1989.
00:49:25So Irad becomes the sixth jockey.
00:49:27Now this is, since stats go back, that's 1976.
00:49:33Remember, this is the World Red Racing
00:49:34and not Major League Baseball.
00:49:36So we can't go back to the old, old days
00:49:38where it may have been done before that even.
00:49:41But since 76, Irad's the sixth guy to do it.
00:49:45And he obviously, the list of tracks,
00:49:47I mean, those are a lot of kind of minor league tracks
00:49:49and nobody among that group
00:49:50really did it at a major league track.
00:49:52Hey, let's segue to another story,
00:49:54something I wrote this week for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:49:57And it really has resonated with the readers.
00:50:00It was the most widely read story for the week.
00:50:02I believe it was the most widely read story this year.
00:50:04And it's because people like to pull their hair out,
00:50:07I think.
00:50:08Now there's, Randy, first of all,
00:50:10you've been so good with tapitrice.
00:50:13Bell Gambi, G-A-M-B-E.
00:50:16I believe that's Italian for beautiful legs.
00:50:19All right, maestro, how do you pronounce that?
00:50:21I looked up tapitrice.
00:50:23I've got no idea about Gambi and beautiful legs in Italy,
00:50:26so I'll leave that up to you.
00:50:28All right, so let's call it Bell Gambi.
00:50:29But anyways, this is a two-year-old owned by Peter Brandt,
00:50:35a half-sister to Uni by Dubai.
00:50:38So a half-sister to a champion
00:50:40by one of the greatest sires in the history of racing.
00:50:43Obviously, she's worth a fortune
00:50:45and they're very high on her
00:50:46and really expecting big things.
00:50:49Brandt shipped her over on January 13th from Ireland
00:50:52where she was old in Ireland.
00:50:56And lo and behold, it came back from the,
00:51:00according to the USDA,
00:51:02she had a test positive for something called Daurine,
00:51:05a D-O-U-R-I-N-E.
00:51:07Now, first of all, let's look at some of the facts,
00:51:10and I've never heard of this either,
00:51:11but what I learned writing the story,
00:51:13Daurine does not exist,
00:51:15just flat out does not exist in Ireland.
00:51:17That's number one.
00:51:19Number two, it is a venereal disease
00:51:21that can only come about when horses are being bred.
00:51:25She's a two-year-old filly.
00:51:26Obviously, she's never been bred or anything.
00:51:30She's never been bred, that's crazy.
00:51:32So you would say to yourself,
00:51:34well, okay, somebody's got to look at this
00:51:36and say this makes absolutely no sense,
00:51:38that's a bad test, go on about your business.
00:51:41Instead, the USDA has still, to this date,
00:51:46we're coming up on one month since she arrived,
00:51:49stuck her in quarantine at a facility at Churchill Mounds,
00:51:52and during a very important time
00:51:55in the growth and development of a young foal.
00:51:58So you can look at it two different ways.
00:52:01The USDA, and I didn't talk to them,
00:52:04but they could argue, hey, rule's a rule,
00:52:05she tested positive for this thing,
00:52:07we can't let her out of quarantine.
00:52:09But everybody else is just saying,
00:52:11can you please use some common sense,
00:52:13and doesn't that factor into the equation?
00:52:17On February 12th, she's going to be tested again.
00:52:19If she does not pass the test then,
00:52:22Peter Brandt has two choices,
00:52:24one of which is to ship her back to Ireland,
00:52:26or the horse must be euthanized.
00:52:28Obviously, he's not going to let that happen,
00:52:30and would ship her back to Ireland.
00:52:31But Rainey, it's just, again,
00:52:34that's why people don't like government sometimes.
00:52:36Just make dumb decisions,
00:52:38and this filly is obviously fine,
00:52:41why wouldn't they just let her race
00:52:42and come into the United States?
00:52:44I wish Biden had covered that
00:52:45in the State of the Union address.
00:52:48Look, you quoted Larry Bramlidge in your article,
00:52:51and Bramlidge thought it was ridiculous,
00:52:52and that's good enough for me.
00:52:53One of the things that really struck me in what you wrote,
00:52:57obviously, the odds of a two-year-old filly
00:53:00contracting this venereal disease,
00:53:03which almost always happens during a breeding process,
00:53:07not to mention the fact that she was in Ireland
00:53:09where it doesn't even exist,
00:53:10makes the odds that she would actually have it infinitesimal.
00:53:14As you pointed out,
00:53:15there is some organisms that can exist in the horse body
00:53:19that can result in a false positive test,
00:53:23and there is a medication or medications
00:53:26that you can give to a horse
00:53:28to take care of these organisms in the horse's body
00:53:31causing a false positive test,
00:53:34and the USDA would not allow the filly
00:53:37to be treated with that medication,
00:53:39which that really blew me away.
00:53:42There's an old saying in horse racing
00:53:44that goes back at least 50 years, maybe longer than that.
00:53:47I think a horse owner came up with it.
00:53:49Racing is not a game for men in short pants.
00:53:53It could be women as well now,
00:53:55but there is so much frustration already
00:53:58and so much disappointment built in to being a horse owner,
00:54:03especially at the level of Peter Brandt.
00:54:05To have something like this just pile on on top of it
00:54:08is really unfortunate,
00:54:09and hopefully this can be cleared up ASAP.
00:54:13Let's hope that this all gets straightened out
00:54:14and then she'll be fine,
00:54:15sit on the Chad Brown
00:54:16and be able to resume training for her career.
00:54:19So this point in the show,
00:54:21we usually go over the big races,
00:54:22the three-year-old preview of the weekend,
00:54:25and there's a couple interesting races among the males.
00:54:28The Sam F. Davis, the prep for the Tampa Bay Derby
00:54:31will be run at Tampa Bay Downs.
00:54:33Randy, I'm gonna hit you up for the pronunciation again.
00:54:36I've never known how to pronounce it.
00:54:38W-N-L, the Remsen winner?
00:54:40Is that right?
00:54:41W-N-L, you're right.
00:54:42W-N-L won the race.
00:54:44W-N-L, okay.
00:54:45Yeah, pretty impressively, it was on a sloppy racetrack.
00:54:49It was basically a match race
00:54:50with a horse called Arctic Arrogance,
00:54:52who will be coming back in the withers.
00:54:54We'll talk about him in a second,
00:54:55but they went from start to finish,
00:54:58head and head together, basically,
00:55:00and W-N-L edged away from Arctic Arrogance at the end,
00:55:03earned a nice 90 buyer speed figure,
00:55:06and they've been looking at the Sam Davis trainer,
00:55:09as the starting point for W-N-L's three-year-old career,
00:55:13or three-year-old season.
00:55:14Once you've gone a mile and an eighth in the Remsen,
00:55:17you don't really wanna back up
00:55:19to a one-turn mile at Gulfstream.
00:55:23So, and also it's a speed-favoring racetrack at Gulfstream,
00:55:26so I think they chose Tampa Bay Downs
00:55:28and the Sam Davis for that reason.
00:55:31But he's the son of good magic.
00:55:32He's out of a sprinter, a filly named Wild Gams,
00:55:36that won more than a million dollars in her career,
00:55:39but obviously the good magic Kirtland influence
00:55:42has taken effect,
00:55:43because the horse has already won at a mile and a furlong,
00:55:45and he should be a pretty solid favorite.
00:55:49A couple other names,
00:55:50Litigate from Todd Fletcher Barn will be in there,
00:55:52and Classic Legacy,
00:55:54a half-brother to Art Collector, is also expected.
00:55:57The withers was supposed to be run last week at Aqueduct,
00:56:00but we had that cold snap
00:56:02and the freezing cold temperatures,
00:56:03and they postponed the race till this week.
00:56:06Arctic Arrogance, as you mentioned earlier,
00:56:08the second in the Remsen and second in the Jerome
00:56:10will be the likely favorite there.
00:56:12But Randy, the race everybody's looking forward to
00:56:14is the Suncoast Stakes on Saturday at Tampa Bay Downs.
00:56:19It features the return of Eclipse Award winner, Wonder Wheel.
00:56:22And you think, okay, you're gonna,
00:56:24Mark Cassidy's gonna ship a champion into Tampa Bay Downs
00:56:27in an ungraded race.
00:56:28It's gonna be a walkover.
00:56:30She's gonna be one to nine
00:56:31and run against a bunch of tomato cats,
00:56:34but not so fast.
00:56:35Julia Shining is also expected to go in there.
00:56:38And she is the Todd Fletcher trainee,
00:56:40the Demoiselle winner, who is a full sister to Malathat.
00:56:44So the little old Suncoast Stakes is gonna be,
00:56:48I think to this point in the year,
00:56:50the most important prep so far for the Kentucky Oaks.
00:56:54Wonder Wheel's a real deal.
00:56:56Julia Shining is a horse that has a ton of potential.
00:56:59I don't think she's looked quite as good so far
00:57:01in her career as Wonder Wheel has.
00:57:03So my early pick would be the obvious Chalk and Wonder Wheel.
00:57:06Yeah, it's a very interesting race.
00:57:09Let's take each horse individually quickly.
00:57:11I mean, for Wonder Wheel,
00:57:12what's interesting about her to me
00:57:15is the total difference in running style
00:57:17between the Alcibiades and the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies.
00:57:20In the Alcibiades, she went wire to wire
00:57:22with Tyler Gaflingham and set up relatively demanding pace
00:57:26and was so game in holding off Chop Chop
00:57:29during the last part of that race to win the Alcibiades.
00:57:32And then she came back and everyone was expecting her
00:57:33to show speed in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies.
00:57:36And Tyler Gaflingham was widely credited
00:57:38for a change in tactics, but it wasn't really that.
00:57:41I mean, you can credit him for the ground-saving ride
00:57:45and slipping through on the inside
00:57:46all the way around to win it.
00:57:47But he was actually urging Wonder Wheel
00:57:51during the first part,
00:57:52and she wanted nothing to do with it.
00:57:53She dropped back to 11th in a 13-horse field
00:57:56before she made a really eye-catching move
00:58:00around the second turn and went on
00:58:01and beat a pretty nice horse in Leave No Trace.
00:58:04So which Wonder Wheel are we gonna see?
00:58:06And then with Julia Shining,
00:58:08all the potential in the world.
00:58:09Her career debut at Keeneland,
00:58:10she was climbing down the backstretch
00:58:12when kickback was hitting her,
00:58:13dropped way back, won anyway.
00:58:16But then she came back and won in her next start
00:58:18in the Demoiselles, 30 minutes before WNL won the Rimsen,
00:58:24but in a time that was 2.17 seconds slower
00:58:29than the Rimsen.
00:58:30So, so far, Julia Shining has all of this potential,
00:58:35but in numbers, they have been very,
00:58:37very mediocre speed figures.
00:58:40And the Demoiselles speed figure
00:58:41has subsequently been verified
00:58:43by some of the horses that finished behind Julia Shining
00:58:46that have come back to run slowly once again.
00:58:49So how good is Julia Shining?
00:58:52That remains to be seen,
00:58:54and I have a feeling we'll find out a lot about that
00:58:55in the Suncoast.
00:58:57TD and Riders Room is brought to you by XBTV,
00:59:00and the workout of the week is Legendary,
00:59:04a daughter of Justify,
00:59:05owned by Windstar Farm, trained by Todd Pletcher.
00:59:07This was a Jan 21 workout at Palm Beach Downs, 102.95.
00:59:12She is scheduled to run Sunday at Gulfstream Park
00:59:15in the six furlong, seventh race.
00:59:18That workout was one of seven timed workouts
00:59:21that Legendary has had at Palm Beach Downs.
00:59:24We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
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01:00:46West Point had two winners at fairgrounds last week.
01:00:49Thursday, Western Command broke his maiden
01:00:51for trainer Greg Foley.
01:00:53And also on Thursday, SWAT Analysis took an allowance race
01:00:58for trainer Mark Cassie.
01:00:59SWAT Analysis is co-owned by West Point,
01:01:01DJ Stable, and the Afui Alex guys.
01:01:05Cash is king LLC.
01:01:07Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:01:09I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cadman,
01:01:12our producer, Patty Wolf,
01:01:14our associate producer, Katie Petruniak,
01:01:17our mascot, Lucy.
01:01:18There she is.
01:01:19Hi, Lucy.
01:01:20Move the muscle, Ashley.
01:01:22Also, Katie Petruniak, our associate producer,
01:01:25and our editors, Anthony LaRocca,
01:01:27Aaliyah LaRocca, and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:01:29Thanks for tuning us in.
01:01:30We'll talk to you next week here
01:01:32on Thoroughbred Daily News Writers and Podcasts.