- vor 11 Monaten
"Polen sollte auf alle Szenarien vorbereitet sein, selbst auf die düstersten wie einen Angriff Russlands, aber das bedeutet natürlich nicht, dass sie eintreten werden“, sagte Tomasz Siemoniak, polnischer Innenminister, im Gespräch mit Euronews.
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00:00Polska powinna sie uprzygotovac na najgorsze, czyli ewentualna na paść ze strony Rosji i wojny, ale to nie znaczy, czy ten czarny scenariusz się znieści. Musimy jednak byc gotowi.
00:20Tomasz Szymoniak, Minister des Inneres und Administratives, Koordinator der Besprechungen für Euronews, erzählt u.a. über das besondere Ereignis der Euronews-Inauguration in Polska.
00:50Wie sieht die Situation aus, ob Polska den Migrationspakt als ganzes oder auch einige seiner Beschreibungen abgibt und ob er mit möglichen Konsequenzen ausgleicht?
01:04Thank you very much. I like to talk about the migration pact, so I will gladly talk about it in a moment.
01:09However, I would like to congratulate you on the start of Euronews-TV in the hands of Mr. President.
01:19It is an important event and I am very happy that I can contribute a small piece to it.
01:26After watching it for years, I will always mention that one of the first interviews preceded by Mr. President Lech Wałęsa's very important speech was also my participation here.
01:38As far as the migration pact is concerned, we are in full swing of events when it comes to the issue of migration.
01:47There is no week without new things, new announcements.
01:53Recently, the project of the return directive, in a moment the strategy of internal security of the EU, so our presidency,
02:01whose priority in the area of internal affairs is to stop illegal migration, the fight against illegal migration, is very active here.
02:10The context of the previous decisions, which adopted the migration pact, is obvious.
02:18The Director-General herself said that Poland said very clearly that in all these issues that threaten the security of Poland,
02:28which would mean a forced relocation, there would be no agreement.
02:36And in this procedure, which will end in mid-2026, because this is the horizon of accepting the pact, we simply do not participate.
02:47And the position of Poland here is very clear, understood by partners.
02:54Because we do not say no because no. We say that Poland accepted a million refugees from Ukraine after the war, during the war,
03:07and this means a certain financial cost to our country.
03:14Of course, great solidarity of Poles at the very beginning of the war and later.
03:19And next to Germany and the Czech Republic, we belong to those countries where this proportion is clearly greater.
03:28So I expect that during our presidency, this discussion will continue,
03:37that important commissioners, such as Magnus Brunner, will pay attention to this.
03:44On the other hand, when I participate in these discussions, when I lead these discussions in the European Union, in the JHA Council,
03:53I feel a great understanding for the Polish position.
03:57The ministers of internal affairs, and this is the area where this discussion takes place,
04:02fully understand our position, know the issues of the Polish-Belarusian border,
04:08hybrid aggression, instrumentalization, weaponization of migration,
04:13and I do not expect, because this was part of the question, Mr. Editor, any problems or repressions against Poland in this regard.
04:23So, Mr. Minister, let's clarify, which elements of the pact, because the pact is, we are talking about a pact, but this is a list of arrangements,
04:29at least which Poland does not want to live in.
04:32Those that mean forced acceptance of migrants or payment if they are not accepted.
04:38We believe, I was talking here about refugees from Ukraine, that the situation in Poland is special.
04:44Therefore, we do not intend to apply the points I mentioned.
04:48Of course, the migration pact is a very broad document, which also includes beneficial things,
04:55sealing borders, strengthening the frontex, we can mention this here for a long time.
04:59However, the most important ones, which I just mentioned, are unacceptable to us.
05:07As far as I know, Poland will be able to be excluded, as Mr. Minister says, from the migration pact,
05:12but only when we actually have such a large group of war refugees from Ukraine.
05:19Meanwhile, you can imagine that after the end, God willing, of war activities in Ukraine,
05:26some people will return to Ukraine,
05:30i.e. Poland will no longer be able to use the argument that we have over a million refugees from Ukraine.
06:00I am not a member of the Czernyszów faction, which is responsible for the issue of unity.
06:05Their respect is such that one should not expect a massive return to Ukraine.
06:10So we assume, similarly to the Germans, the Czechs, and other countries that have accepted Ukrainians,
06:17that such a situation is possible, but its probability is not very high.
06:24Therefore, without going into details, because these are, of course, individual decisions,
06:30and the position of the Ukrainian government, as the Deputy Prime Minister of Czernyszów mentioned,
06:35is such that they will not force anyone to return.
06:38And what if, however, the European Commission decided that Poland would not meet the terms of the pact?
06:43Would Poland be inclined to take legal or financial consequences into account?
07:08I would like to discuss this issue with the editor-in-chief of Euronews on July 1, where the pact is supposed to be signed.
07:19And then I will tell you what the situation looks like.
07:25Today, however, it is simply a mess.
07:28You mentioned the situation on the border with Belarus.
07:31In fact, since 2021, the Polish border has been forced by illegal migrants.
07:39And this is not just a matter of their individual will, but also the public participation of Russia and Belarus,
07:44who want to destabilize the situation on the border in this way.
07:50What does the situation look like now and what is your solution?
07:56We have done a lot over the past year to seal this border.
08:01First of all, the barrier that we have built on the outskirts was completely ineffective,
08:08because it was enough to use a car trailer to spread the ropes for 20 seconds and people could pass.
08:15So we made a huge investment, sealing two such rings, making it impossible to cross.
08:21An electronic barrier was created.
08:23A large force of the border guard, the army and, until the end of last year, the police were directed
08:28to make it impossible to illegally cross the border.
08:33And this was supported by the introduction of a buffer zone from June last year.
08:41A few days ago, I signed another regulation that extends the obligation of this zone
08:46to provide the service with the possibility of free action at the border.
08:50We have also arrested and detained several hundred people.
08:56They are simply smugglers.
08:58And I say this very clearly here.
09:00The doctor asked about this.
09:02This is hybrid aggression.
09:04These are people who come by plane to Moscow and Minsk
09:07and are transported by bus near the border,
09:10instructed by the Belarusian services
09:13and try to look for weak places,
09:17where they can cross the border.
09:20And, unfortunately, in the last few days we have seen an increase in numbers and aggression.
09:27The culmination of this aggression was the murder of a Polish soldier at the border in May last year.
09:34And at the moment we have had several incidents
09:40in which throwing stones, branches, destroying cars, border guards or troops took place.
09:47So this is due to the fact that in parts where there are no barriers due to the drought,
09:58rivers are very easy to cross and can be robbed.
10:03That is why we are taking action to make this border even tighter.
10:08Of course, apart from some political reasons,
10:11because it is known that the Belarusian regime regulates this movement.
10:15The weather is unnaturally warm, as in March, which also supports this action.
10:21We are very pleased that the European Union,
10:24I have mentioned here the message from December,
10:26has absolutely, without discussion,
10:28recognized that this is instrumentalization,
10:31even a stronger word is weaponization.
10:33There is no Polish equivalent for this weaponization.
10:37However, I think that everyone understands perfectly well
10:40that this is simply the use of migrants as a weapon.
10:42Often poor people who are looking for a better future,
10:46but are cynically exploited on the one hand by gangs of smugglers,
10:51and on the other by politicians who know perfectly well how this destabilizes Poland, Europe.
10:59After all, all those who illegally get through,
11:03for the last three and a half years, are going further west.
11:08The fact that the Germans introduced, some time ago,
11:13extortionate controls on the internal Schengen border, also with Poland,
11:19comes from the fact that they used the argument that
11:23these illegal migrants from the Polish-Belarusian border,
11:26also Lithuania, Latvia, Finland had such problems,
11:30they end up in the west, in other countries.
12:01We were skeptical about how to do this,
12:04and we were right, as it turned out,
12:06because a lot of money was spent, and this prohibition was ineffective.
12:09However, because I spoke on behalf of our club,
12:13then in parliamentary debates, in the debate about the state of emergency,
12:17in the debate about the border,
12:19we said very clearly, instrumentalization, hybrid war,
12:24the border must be tight,
12:26all the actions of the government of Prime Minister Donald Tusk,
12:29since December 2023,
12:32show the tightening of the border,
12:35and that this policy is absolutely unwavering.
12:56I don't know how to explain it, I explain it well,
13:22there is such a Polish saying,
13:24the devil dressed in ornate and will call us with his tail.
13:27People who have violated the rule of law for eight years,
13:33violated democracy, violated the rules,
13:36did not publish the vows of the Constitutional Tribunal,
13:39now they are trying to call out loudly
13:44in defense of democracy and rule of law.
13:47This is completely unbelievable.
13:49People who have abused special services,
13:53really, illegally spying,
13:56spying, programming
13:59uncomfortable political opponents for themselves,
14:02today loudly shout about the abuse of special services.
14:06The MP has been detained
14:11because he has very serious charges
14:14related to tens of millions of zlotys,
14:17which have probably been defrauded.
14:20And the court has decided to arrest this person.
14:24And here, when it comes to the actions of special services,
14:29I don't see any abuse.
14:32If there was even such an abuse,
14:35then you can go back to the independent court
14:38and the court will assess whether the actions were correct.
14:41After all, it is not the minister who decides
14:45that this or that person should be detained in one way or another.
14:49I have never seen the person's dignity violated.
15:15I consider these relations to be very good relations.
15:18President Andrzej Duda was with President Trump,
15:22Minister Sikorski was talking to Secretary of State Rubio,
15:28he was talking to the advisor of the President of the National Security Council.
15:31All this took place recently.
15:33There was the Secretary of Defense of the United States in Poland.
15:36This was his first visit.
15:38And these messages are strong and unambiguous.
15:42Also when it comes to the entire sector of special services,
15:45this cooperation is intense, very good,
15:49as it has been for the past few decades,
15:52based on full trust and cooperation.
15:55Really, real politics is not created on the X-axis.
15:58It has its own kind of poetry.
16:01Emotions, of course, are big.
16:05However, these emotions are passed on,
16:08interests remain, and the Polish interest is to have
16:13as good relations as possible with the United States.
16:16And do you believe in the permanence and guarantees given by Article 5 of the NATO?
16:19Yes.
16:21Well, the last question.
16:23Recently, the Ministry of Defense and your resort
16:27will launch a campaign to send letters to Poles
16:30with instructions on how to prepare for a crisis situation.
16:34In turn, the Prime Minister of Tuscany said that
16:37it was an idea for the Poles to have a military training service.
16:43And many Poles, including me,
16:45an ordinary journalist in Brussels for years,
16:47ask whether there will be a war in my opinion.
16:49Therefore, you, as a person more competent than me,
16:52how can you respond to something that worries Poles the most now,
16:56residents of most of Europe,
16:59whether we are really threatened by aggression from Russia
17:02and how do you, as a Polish state, prepare for this?
17:07I just want to make it clear that this will not be a letter,
17:10but a brochure, and it will be ready in April, May
17:14and will be sent to the end of the year.
17:17A manual on what to do in various situations,
17:20a bit like Sweden, where such a manual was issued.
17:24The question of whether there will be a war
17:27is very often asked by people on the street in various situations.
17:30And I answer, yes, we have to do everything to avoid a war.
17:34However, as people responsible for the security of the state,
17:38we are obliged to act in such a way
17:41to be prepared for the worst scenarios.
17:44And here the situation, I mentioned it earlier,
17:47is completely unpredictable.
17:50We are very confused here.
17:52You can see how we catch all these emotions,
17:57these events, asking what it meant for Poland,
18:00whether such a time has returned,
18:03that the authorities will sentence us for our fate.
18:06We have an impact on what we do ourselves.
18:09Let's issue, it was mentioned here earlier
18:12in the speech of Mr. President,
18:15let's issue so much for defense.
18:18The training you are talking about is not mandatory.
18:21The Prime Minister clearly says it is voluntary.
18:24I would like to encourage everyone
18:27to devote some time to acquiring basic skills,
18:30which are not only skills for war.
18:33These are matters of behaving during a crisis,
18:36providing first aid, acting in a group.
18:39These are certainly things that will be very useful for everyone.
18:42I have already applied myself
18:45and my deputy ministers have also applied for training.
18:48I really think this is something important.
18:51I also encourage everyone present here
18:54to want to do something for their country,
18:57including the citizens here in our room.
19:00But this is something that each of us
19:03can do in practice.
19:06And it seems to me that this ambitious plan
19:09to train 100,000 people in 2027
19:12is absolutely realistic.
19:15We are also preparing a lot of opportunities
19:18for people to learn to shoot,
19:21to examine wounds,
19:24to provide first aid,
19:27to know what alarm signals mean.
19:30These are really important things.
19:46The Romans were right in this matter.
19:49Not only in this one, but it is certainly a wise rule.
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