Tell me why inclusion is crucial in modern-day societies

Gulf News

CEO and Founder of ImInclusive, Hafsa Qadeer, discusses the isolation that some families of people of determination often experience.   Hafsa’s business journey was inspired by her brother, Ahmed, whom she describes as one of the most talented people of determination  ImInclusive was set-up in 2019 by Hafsa and her brother, Ahmed  ImInclusive helps match people of determination with job opportunities in the UAE  Hafsa wanted to use her bond with Ahmed to give people of determination, who feel isolated, a platform to excel  See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km  Subscribe to Gulf News on YouTube and watch more of our videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/GulfNewsTV  #UAEnews #podcast #inclusion

Transcript

00:00had parents from all walks of life just come to us and say I feel like you're going to be with my

00:06kids till they retire. Oh that's so sweet. And then I know this is going to get really sad quickly

00:11so heads up but we've had some parents who've said that to us pass away you know during the

00:16journey of the candidate with us and so it feels like a responsibility as well because you've had

00:22somebody's parent look you in the eye and go like I know you're going to be there even after I'm gone

00:28and then you know it's something you carry on you it's a it's I carried like a badge of honor that

00:32okay somebody took that much to trust me but it's a responsibility so we don't leave people

00:38we actually have whatsapp groups with all of our candidates.

00:46Welcome back to a brand new episode of Tell Me Why which is a Gulf News original podcast.

00:51I'm Maria Botros and every episode I have someone new on the show and to be honest

00:57every time it's even more interesting than the time before. Today is a topic that I feel is so

01:03pivotal for the progression of any society or any community and I feel like the UAE has done

01:10a fantastic job you know in the in the past few years I want to say in this specific topic which

01:18is inclusivity. With me today is Hafsa Qadir who is a pioneer in this area I want to say and a

01:28person that really works with including different segments of our society and different demographics

01:37into the workplace specifically. Tell us a bit more about what you do Hafsa first of all how are you?

01:43I am very well thank you very much for asking and just to mention a little bit about what I do

01:52name's Hafsa yeah I am you know you're using all these amazing big words but essentially

02:00I am a very proud sibling of a very talented person of determination who got me hooked on

02:06this journey in the first place. So I started this journey in 2019 with my brother who identifies as

02:14a person of determination he lives with spinal bifida his name is Ahmed which is same as our

02:19cameraman today. Yes that's true. And Ahmed and I started this journey realizing that at the age of

02:2716 we started when he was 16 and I was 24 and so we realized that you know we had a very different

02:35bond compared to what we saw in most families that were isolated because of disability

02:42exclusion I must say families getting isolated from the conversation from the community and we

02:47really wanted to do something different so that we could share our lens with the world.

02:53Ahmed used to play the piano very fluently back then and write his own music and he is also a very

02:59talented copywriter till date he works at I'm Inclusive full-time of course but at that time

03:06I realized that I was looking at this amazing person you know just shining with all his brightness

03:12and I probably didn't give it too much of a thought not in a careless way but at least he

03:18is enabled by a wheelchair but I never saw that as his identity right he's so many things

03:26and he's enabled by a wheelchair yes and so it's that people first concept that was not very common

03:34which I didn't realize till I started my job at Special Olympics in 2018 I started volunteering

03:41in 2019 I started working with them. So that sort of like kick-started your idea? I feel like there

03:47was a calling that led me to Special Olympics in the first place okay like I knew that what I was

03:53doing at that time I had to do more like I had too much energy to be you know putting it on

03:58something that was just a job making money right so I really wanted to do more and Special Olympics

04:04came here and I went to volunteer first and then I just wrote to them multiple times till they hired

04:09me. Nice perseverance I like that. In that journey I did end up founding I'm Inclusive as an

04:16initiative first it went through its like research phase community phase everything till it turned

04:23into a full startup and eventually I just ended up doing I'm Inclusive full-time so I full-time

04:29lead this movement. Amazing so I'm Inclusive is the name of the company yeah how old is it?

04:36So it's been around if we say officially it's been around and like fully operational since last year

04:42okay but we did start incubation in the end of 2019 early 2020 with the Abu Dhabi government.

04:51Amazing. So we started researching on why people of determination are not getting job opportunities

04:57and that was the whole thing with matching up to Ahmed's talent and realizing that okay if we're

05:02looking at talent in one person why aren't we looking at talent in all people of determination

05:08or are people of determination not looking at their own talent like what's inhibiting them so

05:14we started having lots of those young youthful focus groups and conversations and the government

05:20heavily supported our vision here. Of course yes I love what you said is that are they not looking

05:26at themselves as talented because I think that's that's our responsibility as a community and

05:32as a society is to enable these people and to actually show them that they have so much

05:38to offer they just don't know it because in the past they weren't given that platform.

05:43Going back to the UAE being supportive I mean it starts from the very small details which is

05:50calling them people of determination rather than people of intellectual disabilities or disabilities

05:56or you know all the terms that we used to use in the past that we no longer feel are appropriate to

06:03use now because they're just not true I feel because there's so much ability in their disability

06:09I want to say there's so much that they can offer. Okay so can you tell us about the process

06:16what happens like let's say I'm a person of determination I feel like you know what I heard

06:21Hafsa and I heard her story and I heard her brother's story and I'm inspired I want to come

06:26forward how do I do it how does like what does your company have to offer me? So if a person

06:32of determination or a person with disability approaches us disability is an internationally

06:38used term so we completely use it and you're right people have so many abilities within their

06:43disabilities so you know it is a part of their state of being and it's something we celebrate

06:48within our diversity and inclusion right so if somebody comes to us and they're a person of

06:53determination we either identify them in our like batch of candidates as a candidate who's a job

07:01seeker or a talent so it's not necessary that you're you know immediately looking for like a

07:06full-time job and we don't even promise that right we always have way more candidates than jobs at

07:12any point of time but what you get access to in the first go is a community okay you see I keep

07:18touching on this topic of isolation because when I was growing up my mom and our family internally

07:24didn't have enough conversation on this right and I feel like by the time I'm at turn 16 that worry

07:30in me grew very big where I started seeing general community members look at him and make these

07:37disappointed sounds or feel like oh you know it's so sad for this family and I was like yeah but

07:42they don't know who Ahmed is right yeah you don't know like he's amazing and if you get into a

07:47conversation with him he'll talk to you about Rumi's poetry and I was like so if people people

07:52are never going to see that in the first go right of course so I I realized that it's because

07:58families entirely getting isolated is because we're not connected in our communities enough

08:04with people with disabilities right till date if you ask people in Dubai like do you have experience

08:10working with people of determination or being with people with disabilities there are a few amazing

08:16amazing centers for people of determination that have been here for very very long who've introduced

08:21these volunteering activities into the community but we want to also take a step further than that

08:28and give people the agency to lead us instead right nice in this community of you know where

08:34we can almost sound like and I and I'm mindful of myself doing that sometimes saying I'm here to

08:41help you actually I want people of determination to help me to understand the different perspective

08:47that I don't have right that Ahmed taught me for example so when we share all those unique

08:53perspectives we're generally like a much more vibrant highly productive of course you know

08:59performing society which is focused on wellness equality equity so from that perspective if a

09:07person comes to us we don't immediately tell them you know we're going to put you in a job tomorrow

09:11there are cases like that some people you know their risk is written and they come to us and

09:16we're kind of like we use the term vasila oh yeah you know exactly it follows through but if somebody

09:22comes to us and they don't immediately find a job or they don't immediately find like a musician

09:27opportunity painting we have all these different paid programs they do get access to a community

09:34they get access to people who are like themselves willing to sit with them in senior job positions

09:40talent positions so just it's not just about right me right it's about a person of determination

09:47seeing an other person of determination in a career path where maybe they want to grow in

09:51and getting that mentorship so it's a connection with the community I'm just in awe like I don't

09:57know what to say I just I can listen to you all day honestly like I feel like I feel like everyone

10:02needs that not just people of determination it almost feels like it's a support group like you're

10:08there to sit with people that are going through the same thing and by the way this applies to us

10:12like this applies to everyone if I'm going through you know a difficult time in my life if I if I'm

10:18suffering from depression or postpartum depression or we were just talking about this on the show

10:23previously support groups are so underrated yet so helpful because sometimes they're the right

10:32amount of push that you need to you know move on with your life or to get the encouragement that

10:39you need so I applaud you for that and thank you for being here today to talk about that

10:45because I don't think a lot of people know about this I heard about this for the first time when I

10:50found out about you when when you know Cleo who's with us in the studio introduced me to

10:57Cleo and Indira introduced me to you so thank you for that my next question would be let's say

11:06you helped someone get a job I just want to focus on that and then we'll go back to the rest of the

11:11topics do you follow up with them do you facilitate like do you have like a program that helps

11:17facilitate everything for them from a to z so that it's like you ease them into the process

11:23so that's a really really excellent question and when people of determination enter jobs in the UAE

11:30market at least there's a lot of things that they need to be very aware of for example we have

11:36people on our team people with disabilities who are certified in HR trainings so it's really

11:42important for them to first of all understand their offer letters okay right the way that you

11:48and I interpret a legal contract is not the same and is not it's not general knowledge first of all

11:53right whenever somebody gets a job not everybody understands their contract we get excited

12:01in our case we have to really tell people that these contracts are very serious and we

12:07specially highlight the probation period to people because that's a that's a time where you are kind

12:13of under a screening process still you know of course so that notion of companies also announcing

12:20we've hired people of determination that hiring part is I think the easier part keeping people

12:26in successful jobs and retention that's a very that's a very long-term approach and the more

12:33sustainable approach and it is where our focus is at the end of the day because we really want to

12:38give this support to people it's not like we can deploy them and then leave them exactly and I work

12:44with amazing so there are amazing people of determination working in my team I work with

12:49Saira a lot she's our director for opportunities she oversees a lot of candidate mentorship

12:54and employer engagement and we've had parents from all walks of life just come to us and say

13:00I feel like you're going to be with my kids till they retire oh that's so sweet and then I know

13:05this is going to get really sad quickly so heads up but we've had some parents who've said that to

13:10us pass away you know during the journey of the candidate with us and so it feels like a

13:16responsibility as well because you've had somebody's parent look you in the eye and go like I know

13:21you're going to be there even after I'm gone yes and then you know it's something you carry on you

13:26it's a it's I carried like a badge of honor that okay somebody took that much to trust me

13:31but it's a responsibility so we don't leave people we actually have whatsapp groups with

13:36all of our candidates that is so sweet they just keep asking them like hey how are you doing yes

13:41that matters that question that that just that message actually matters with with a lot of people

13:47I mean again it's not just people of determination but everyone everyone would love to have someone

13:52check up on them or see if they're doing well okay so you mentioned something that really like

13:58caught my attention and I want to touch on that because it it it's sort of like connected to a

14:03question that I had you were saying the easy part is the hiring part the hard part is actually

14:08maintaining these employees who are of a certain category and actually giving them the job

14:15satisfaction that they deserve now it ties into a question that I have because I always ask what is

14:23our responsibility towards people of determination and I feel like okay I thought of another question

14:31do you offer something for companies or like for the for corporates on how to like a training

14:39program on how to accommodate you know to these people because it does take effort and it and

14:46it's not difficult it just needs some practice and then it comes naturally I feel so do you offer that

14:52and does and then what do you think okay you you know the questions that there's so many I'm sorry

14:57maybe let's let's start with our responsibility as a society and as companies and how we can

15:02accommodate to the people of determination yes okay I'm going to try to keep both answers short

15:08because I have much to say but I will share with you this part that I've learned in the journey

15:14of disability inclusion as a person who's not a person of determination and you know very mindful

15:20of that very respectfully in the space that I am here as a platform creator my job is to create

15:26opportunities but there are people who are leading this who are people of determination themselves

15:33there is a lot of biases that I've had to disrupt during the journey of my own you know because I

15:41didn't realize different models of disability that exist till I studied them and that taught me that

15:49you can learn disability inclusion as a skill right how we learn cultural diversity how to work

15:55with different people in the workplace similar to that we also teach disability inclusion but the

16:01most interesting thing that I've learned is that there are studied researched models of disabilities

16:07through which we're all perceiving disabilities they come under five main criteria one is the

16:13charity model okay okay and now this is not a blame game of any sort because we're all conditioned

16:20almost in a good way when we start off on this journey to support people to help people right

16:26and it depends on the cultural context the UAE is a very giving nation very giving and that's

16:31beautiful and we all know that we live that but at the same time the charity mindset of disability

16:37has prevailed for a very long time but what it does is it creates this image of people

16:43of determination or people with disabilities being people who need help all the time right

16:50and that takes away their agency sometimes and that also takes away their power to be in leadership

16:55positions right then you have the medical mindset the medical model of disability which only sees

17:01the diagnosis of the person and does not recognize the person as a full individual it also

17:07kind of promotes the notion that the disability can be cured disabilities are not contagious they

17:12can also not be cured it's a state of being a part of somebody's very massively amazing

17:18you know identity or also to say that it's not necessary that all people with disabilities have

17:23to be amazing they're people there can be good people exactly yeah there's also the religious

17:29model of disability which is you either look at disability as a curse or a blessing you know and

17:35people draw that from different cultural religious contexts and then there is the social model and

17:41the human rights model of disability which says that either the disability inclusion

17:47let's say the the power to influence the change is with community we have to make the world more

17:53accessible it is my job it is your job you know it's our job to make the world accessible and

17:58remove barriers and the human rights model says that people with disabilities have rights right

18:03you know and they're not asking you for special needs they're asking you for their right their

18:08basic rights i feel yeah so once i learned those i realized there was conditioning in my brain that

18:15i was carrying there were voices that were not my own just things that have settled into me over time

18:20i didn't choose to think those things but i can't choose to reflect on them can you call them

18:24misconceptions sorry to interrupt but can they be misconceptions absolutely yeah okay yeah so i think

18:30that that answers the first question hopefully yes that you know we all have these different

18:36thinking models about disability but we can choose to change them yeah right correct and the second

18:41question you asked me was do we kind of teach the employers so we are a revenue generating

18:47startup model okay which has been incubated by the government in a way where in october 2022

18:53we got the ue's first ever social enterprise license let me repeat that first ever social

18:58enterprise license because those did not exist before and so in abu dhabi these were launched

19:06in october of 2022 and we received this certification to carry inclusive employment

19:10activities amazing so we are a startup we are generating revenue through our employers we

19:15obviously don't charge people of determination for anything no recruitment agency also charges

19:20their talent for anything yeah so um they actually have got quite amazing brands supporting us in our

19:28journey which is helping us sustain yeah nice well that's that's heartwarming it's sort of like

19:33it makes you feel like um people are still good they're still investing in good causes so that's

19:39good okay so um you mentioned something before the show and um i'm really excited because what

19:46ever since you mentioned it it's i've i've just been like thinking about it it's been in the back

19:51of my mind it's international deaf week you were saying yeah and you're gonna do something special

19:57with our specific episode yeah so it's it is international week of celebrating deaf cultures

20:03deaf inclusive spaces 23rd of september is the international day of sign languages and so i've

20:10been spending this entire week with our deaf cohort who've been doing like sign workshops

20:15throughout the uae abu dhabi dubai elaine different places okay and so i'm gonna definitely

20:20make sure that one of our interpreters translates this into sign language so it's accessible to

20:25everybody um you know just because we're celebrating it so yes of course that's fantastic

20:31i'm so excited like i can't wait to see that and thank you for that that's uh that means a lot to

20:36us um you also mentioned something else have you dealt with people like with deaf people in general

20:42like in in either at work or in your personal life and is it difficult a lot of people have that

20:50i want to say a misconception as well that that's one of the biggest challenges to communicate with

20:55someone that might have a hearing disability um so when i started my brother ahmed he he's

21:02enabled by wheelchair right so i knew a little bit about ahmed's physical disability i did not

21:07know about people with any kinds of like hard of hearing or people who are deaf or speaking or

21:12non-speaking i had no idea but i learned through the way because more and more candidates got in

21:17touch with us yeah with any kind of like disabilities when it comes to their hearing

21:21spectrum um currently we've got at least four deaf people in our team two of them are teachers

21:29of sign language one of them is our amazing um candidate who's on his way to full-time

21:35employment but he's also supporting us driving us all around to different assignments oh fantastic

21:40so actually i deal with um deaf people a lot they're very much a part of my team

21:45i'm learning so much from the should i say the silent world not silent as in they don't have a

21:51voice because they're very communication heavy yes but in terms of learning to communicate

21:58non-verbally okay or with like more physical gestures yes of course um did you learn sign

22:04language so you you are you fluent do you say i'm not fluent i don't think anybody but a deaf person

22:11and their immediate family members can be fluent fluent okay are people who are studying at like

22:16universities do you know study linguistics okay in deaf language but for me i can spell my name

22:23now which i think is well that's good okay i can spell a few things i also use live transcribe a

22:30lot which is on all of her phones okay so you can basically turn on this app and whatever you're

22:35speaking it writes it down and so that helps me communicate with people of course a lot yeah

22:40okay so going back to um uh one of your candidates or i want to say one of the people currently

22:46working with you driving you around and you were saying he's actually going to move on to a full

22:50time job um that brings me to my next question do you have any like success stories that you

22:56can tell us about like candidates two or three stories even one if i mean whichever you're

23:01comfortable you know talking about and without revealing too many details if they don't want

23:06their identity disclosed obviously we want to preserve that but can you maybe tell us a few

23:11success stories yeah i think this one always stays in my heart because it's the first time i realized

23:17what we're doing is having such a big impact um we had two siblings both live with visual

23:23disabilities okay and they approached us through their school they got in touch with us through

23:29their school counselor she found us online and she told them because they couldn't study further in

23:34their exams so she sent our contact details to them we got to know them a little bit and you know

23:40we placed them in a job like we do with all candidates we placed um we placed the one of

23:47the siblings in the hospitality industry um in a really good like housekeeping kind of role but it

23:52was something that she was very empowered in that role by her managers so when she joined us for

23:57example she would be like really shy and stuff but over time she started talking about you know

24:02where she works and the job she does with so much pride um and the other sibling became like a coach

24:08with us so he still trains with us time to time with different companies and i remember when their

24:14mom came to meet us and i hadn't like interacted with the parents i had been talking to these two

24:20amazing individuals along with my entire team right and their mom said to me she said actually

24:28in our families and in our community nobody thought that people with disabilities can ever

24:33have a dignified job role that's so heartbreaking i was just like what because you see we we just

24:41we're doing what we're doing on a day-to-day basis because it's a mission it's a movement

24:46it's something we're so committed to we're a group of very like i would say still young individuals

24:52in my team lots of people are like 32 and under um and everybody's just like day in day out we can

24:58see the goal you know we're like driven by this large mission which is working in the uae and so

25:03we're consistently chasing that dream yeah right and it's working we're living that dream in many

25:09ways but when those moments happen when like when their mom came to me and they told me i was just

25:15quite in a shock for a bit because i thought okay like this is something that has made

25:22obviously their entire family and their community realize that they can do so much more yeah because

25:29before that they had options of working like in a car workshop or you know take a blue collar job

25:34and stick to it for your whole lifetime because that's the career you're going to get so that

25:40moment still stays with me and they're both still thriving you know as individuals and growing

25:46it's it's um it's a lesson learned i feel because um they set the example and i think that it's that

25:54that idea of you know unfortunately i don't want to say this but some people view people

26:00of determination as maybe a burden rather than an opportunity like a person of opportunity

26:07a person that can actually excel in their life a lot of people and i want to say like i've seen

26:12communities where they feel like oh i'd have to take care of them for the rest of my life and

26:16it's just going to be my duty when really that person can do so much more than you think but

26:21you're the one that's limiting them and limiting your idea of what they can do so uh that's a that's

26:27a very important lesson that they that these two candidates taught their family and their community

26:32i feel um i i must add this i feel like if anybody cannot relate to disability inclusion immediately

26:39especially as women they can relate to exclusion right yeah we know what that feels like yes so

26:45then we should act on that we can build from there and i have lots of personal experiences in my own

26:50journey which i realize make me who i am today and why i'm advocating for this right but if

26:56communities can tell like women that they're a burden in certain communities you know must be

27:02married off quickly or marriage is the ultimate goal of people's lives or that's what young girls

27:08are taught yeah i just think when you felt that kind of exclusion or inequity you can build on

27:15that exactly everybody's been through very challenging experiences in their life yeah

27:20so as one of the candidates and the same person that i mentioned earlier taha he says it's almost

27:26like people with disabilities are there but everybody's like closing their eyes and saying

27:30you're not here you're not here yeah well we're there exactly we exist we're in this space and

27:35you know we're all together in this yeah so we might as well accept it and actually learn to

27:40embrace each other right yeah that's beautiful actually though those are very wise words you know

27:46um honestly it's true and i feel like uh what you mentioned is we tend to put those false ideas in

27:54our heads and in the in the heads of our children and the generations to come that oh you know a

27:59woman will only find happiness when she's married or those those ideas are just ideas they're

28:04actually not they're not they hold no truth when you actually think about them and when you try to

28:09break those barriers um okay my last question i don't want to take up so much of your time

28:15because this can go on and on but we will always have you back on the show definitely um how's your

28:22brother doing what is he up to now you mentioned him a lot but i want to know more about what he

28:27does now so ahmed started as an intern at i'm inclusive making sure he earns all the steps and

28:34goes all the way very smoothly also don't want to overwhelm him of course yeah um so currently ahmed

28:40was homeschooled after like during his a levels because he cannot go to the school and sit for

28:46those many long hours he has very specific accessibility requirements himself okay um so

28:51he's been working from home he works with the candidate engagement team and he has picked up

28:58from you know sending people like one to two emails and slowly starting into now facilitating

29:05complete interviews getting people hired in fact because he's engaging with the candidates all the

29:11time sometimes i'll show up in a place and a candidate would be there to meet me and they'd

29:15be like ahmed sent us and so ahmed is still working from pakistan so he comes and goes

29:21okay but for me to show up in spaces and people are like is ahmed here or ahmed told us to come

29:26and meet you it's the best feeling in the world i'm sure even the deaf community they have a sign

29:32for him so they do this because he has a beard oh that's so cute so in the show for interviews

29:37he's already like prepared them for interviews and stuff and i staff those interviews with my

29:41team sometimes and they'll come to me and they'll go like oh he's like ahmed oh i just love it

29:46because it's like this this bond that i have in my life it means a lot to me and you know i'm

29:53inclusive made that possible yes so i'm really thankful for where his journey is going and he's

29:58really taking up leadership positions along with many people of determination on the team who he's

30:04kind of co-leading with so i have a brother who's a person of determination but i also have amazing

30:10people of determination on the team on the team exactly so it's full circle amazing amazing and

30:15we're very proud of you and everything that you're doing last thing any advice you have for

30:20people uh any advice that you want to offer i just feel like everybody can can strive to reach

30:27their maximum potential in the country especially that we're in we're very privileged at least i

30:33recognize my privilege this is a great country for like social entrepreneurship as well trying

30:37to take an impact approach there are so many different challenges across the world and

30:43different kind of economies where perhaps something like this would take longer time to

30:48scale or even if it scaled a lot it could kind of come back to scale one really quickly because

30:54of socio-economic conditions etc but being in this community i feel like now is the time for

31:00impact businesses to grow and take lead and you know try to do what they can i also definitely

31:06want to thank the partners that we have like dish communications and the bureau and all these

31:12different places that have just opened up their hearts and joined the movement with us you know

31:17so if somebody is listening to this and they want to join i'm inclusive as a movement they

31:21can definitely join in whatever way they can you know and support the mission and become a part of

31:27it and that is a learning process together so yeah that's beautiful thank you so much

31:32have so thank you for being with us today thank you thank you for the conversation

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