00:00Hello, I'm Simon Keegan, I'm the editor of the North West Business Insider.
00:15And last year Insider celebrated 30 years of our DealMakers event.
00:21And now we're doing something very special with DealMakers, we're launching our first
00:26ever UK DealMakers.
00:28So on February the 6th at the International Convention Centre in Birmingham, we have the
00:34first ever National DealMakers Awards.
00:37Now I'm very pleased to announce that our headline sponsors are going to be Investec,
00:43part of the Rathbones Group.
00:45So I'm joined today by Jack Roper, Investment Manager at Manchester, and Nick Jones, Divisional
00:52Director in Birmingham.
00:53So welcome gentlemen.
00:56So why was it so important for you to be involved in this, the first National DealMakers
01:01Awards?
01:02So the Investec Wealth and Investment will be completing, coming together with Rathbones
01:06Group during 2025.
01:09So it's kind of a deal of your own really isn't it?
01:11Yeah, very much so.
01:12Quite appropriate.
01:13Yeah, yeah.
01:14So, and we've worked regionally, I had a presence in the regions, in the North West Midlands
01:19in particular.
01:20But as the two companies come together, it enhances our national footprint and gives
01:24us a really strong position to work with individuals and businesses.
01:27The new combined entity will have 23 offices across the UK and the Channel Islands.
01:33So we thought it just presented a really great opportunity for us to get involved and share
01:37our alignment with the dealmaking community.
01:40So that's a lot of synergy really there with the event because it's important to us regionally,
01:44you know, I led on the North West DealMakers event, but then we've also got South East,
01:50South West, Midlands, and obviously Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland as well.
01:54And now we've got that national presence.
01:58So you've got that regional, national synergy as well.
02:02Yeah.
02:03And now you talk there about that alignment, just tell us a little bit more about that,
02:08you know how, because we've got quite a diverse crowd there because we've got the DealMaker
02:15of the Year, we've got the Law Firm of the Year, we've got the CF Team of the Year, you
02:20know, how do you align with these dealmakers?
02:24So we kind of have two touch points as it were within the business, I think on the one
02:27side with our bank, we have a corporate advisory team, so they advise on M&A deals themselves.
02:33And then from our side of the business, we then look to work with founders, significant
02:37shareholders to help them structure, financially plan, look after their wealth in the event
02:42of any exit.
02:44It's quite a nice fit, and there's been a number of deals, particularly in the north
02:46where I'm based, of it successfully working together with our corporate advisory team
02:51is advising a deal, and then we've then taken on the client afterwards and helping to structure
02:55that wealth and protect it.
02:56Right, okay, so that really is the two sides of the deal, because obviously we've got the
03:01advisors there, the corporate finance and so on, and then so you're actually involved
03:06in kind of funding some of these deals then, but then also as you say, if it's an exit,
03:16then there's that wealth management side, isn't there?
03:18So I mean, I kind of imagine that when you run in a business, you can be kind of laser
03:27focused on the day to day of running that business, can't you?
03:31And so then, you know, it's part of their identity, isn't it?
03:35So their business, often it's a family business, or it's something that they've grown, and
03:40so they're maybe not even thinking about life beyond that in some cases, are they?
03:45Absolutely, and this year we've done a bit of work in the tech sector in Manchester,
03:49looking at founders there.
03:51So arguably a bit earlier on in their journey than people would be at this stage of looking
03:54to do M&A activity, but it's the same principle that applies.
03:58So we're seeing time and time again with founders in the tech community, they put their business
04:04ahead of everything, it's their passion project, they put the business ahead of themselves,
04:09they often put their employees ahead of themselves, because they see that's where the value is.
04:16And the amount of conversations I've had with people that haven't had a chance to even look
04:18at their own finances and plan for the future, which reminds me of the saying, you know,
04:24the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is today.
04:29So that would be my message to anyone on that stage of the journey, it's really starting,
04:33it's not shameful to consider yourself and try and look out for your own finances in this.
04:38It's a very respectable and noble thing to do to build a company like that and create
04:43wealth for your employees and aid the economy, but you do need to protect yourself as well.
04:47Yeah, yeah, well, interesting what Jack's saying there, Nick.
04:51I mean, I suppose when you say wealth management, do you ever get that response where people
04:57will say, well, that's not me yet, you know, I'm not a billionaire, you know.
05:02It's a really good point, Simon, actually.
05:04And for years, I've been saying, you know, have conversations with people at any stage
05:07during the business cycle, because often I think entrepreneurs will start a business
05:11not necessarily always with an exit plan, they'll start a business to do something with
05:17a product that they really believe in.
05:19And we're really keen, you know, we have conversations with people all the way through.
05:24And by doing that, it just enables the point so that when there is some value realisation,
05:29the foundations are already in place for the planning, for the structure of how they
05:34want to look after their family.
05:35Yeah.
05:36And it's just as you keep on.
05:38So it's kind of, as he says, with the tree analogy, you know, it's kind of never too
05:45early, but it's also kind of never too late to start thinking about this future planning
05:50and this succession planning, isn't it?
05:52Yeah, absolutely.
05:53And also, I think within entrepreneurial families, you know, often they'll bring the children
06:00through or financially educate the children or talk about investments with the children.
06:04And we do that as well.
06:06How can we help generationally in a bit of education, which sometimes isn't always there
06:12for the kids coming through and the owner may want to protect them from the situation
06:17or from the wealth.
06:18Yeah.
06:19It's so, so important to include them in that and try to educate them at different levels,
06:22different degrees through the ages.
06:25And so it's every stage of the journey, really, isn't it?
06:27It's not just that kind of thinking, oh, well, when I'm 70, I'll think about my exit.
06:31Yeah, exactly.
06:32It's that journey.
06:33Yeah.
06:34And we are not a business that puts our hand up at the end when somebody's had the realization
06:38and go, can we help you?
06:39Yeah.
06:40Because that doesn't work.
06:41You've got to build a relationship from the start.
06:43Sure, sure.
06:44So, I mean, we're talking there about some of these, you know, exits and things like
06:50that.
06:52What about the activity you've seen?
06:53I mean, has there been plenty of that for the last couple of years?
06:55Yeah, it's obviously no great insight to say it's been a challenging couple of years for
06:59the deals market.
07:00Fueled by fears of inflation, interest rate rises, economic uncertainty, a lot of people
07:06have been sitting on cash and sort of reducing activity.
07:11There's a lot of expectation that we'll pick up a lot in 2024 and we have seen a bit of
07:14that, but it's been quite segmented by the market size and that's particularly driven
07:20by the budgets.
07:21So in the small to mid-market area, we saw quite a lot of activity, people trying to
07:25get deals over the line before the budgets with fears of tax increases, wanted to get
07:31things set on stone whilst there was a degree of certainty.
07:35What we didn't see was that in the sort of mid to upper level markets.
07:38So the activity for us didn't really pick up there in the same way.
07:42In hindsight, that was probably a fairly wise course of action.
07:45And I think from the people we speak to, a lot of the feeling has been, okay, it wasn't
07:49great, the budget, but it could have been a lot worse.
07:53I think that was it, wasn't it?
07:54That was the theme of the budget.
07:55It was kind of like budget 2024, it could have been worse.
07:59Yeah, absolutely.
08:00So that leads us into sort of our outlook going forward.
08:03And as a result of the uncertainty of the last couple of years, we feel there's probably
08:08going to be a bit of an uptick in activity.
08:10That's mainly going to be driven by the private equity partners that we speak to who tend
08:14to be sitting on a bit of dry powder and need to start deploying that capital.
08:18I mean, I'm Northwest biased, but we've got an amazing private equity community here in
08:24Manchester and in the Northwest, haven't we?
08:26We've got about 30 private equity houses.
08:29They've got a lot, they're sitting on a lot of money.
08:31They're going to want to deploy that money, aren't they?
08:34Yes, absolutely.
08:35And particularly with the course of interest rates, will be coming down most likely, maybe
08:40not as fast as the market first expected.
08:42However, that seems to be the trajectory which will then make deals more attractive and activity
08:46more attractive.
08:48And we've also seen a difference between the sectors as well.
08:50So again, it's no great surprise.
08:52The tech sector or anything AI related attracts quite a premium valuation at the moment.
08:58And we've seen that in public markets as well with sort of US mega cap names.
09:03However, aside from that, we've also seen some interesting activity in the professional
09:07services markets.
09:08A lot of consolidation there, isn't it?
09:10Yes, and also in the property services market, particularly tech related things with that.
09:15So there are certain areas of the market that are holding their previous valuations.
09:19And we would probably look to see that increase.
09:21And you're seeing that nationally, are you?
09:23Yes.
09:24Right, okay.
09:25Because I know that what you're saying has certainly been true here in the North West.
09:29So I'd be interested to know if that's the kind of flavor across the country.
09:33Yes, certainly.
09:34And it seems to be sort of when you read things online as well, it sort of seems to be the
09:38general consensus across the industry.
09:41Yes, well, look, it's an exciting time to be going into the UK dealmakers.
09:45I mean, I sat in on the judging for the North West dealmakers.
09:49And I think we've got some of our North West winners are going forward into this.
09:54But I'm quite familiar with some of the ones from around the country as well.
09:59And, you know, they're all winners who were shortlisted.
10:03So it's a really, really strong shortlist.
10:06I think it's going to be fantastic to crown our first national champions.
10:12I'm looking forward to seeing it.
10:13It's going to be good, isn't it?
10:14It's really high caliber companies and dealmakers getting in.
10:18Absolutely.
10:19And hopefully, you know, at Insider, we don't do things once.
10:23This tends to be the first of many.
10:26So, yeah, if you don't have your tickets for the UK dealmakers, it's February the 6th.
10:33It's at the International Convention Center in Birmingham.
10:36Secure your tickets for that.
10:38And I think all that we can say is good luck to everyone shortlisted.
10:43And we'll see you on the night.
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