- 1 year ago
馃敶 5 MESES, MIL HIP脫TESIS: 驴QUE HICIERON CON LOAN?
Los padres de Loan Pe帽a estuvieron en exclusiva con A24 a 161 d铆as de su desaparici贸n. El abogado querellante, Juan Pablo Gallego, habl贸 a Macarena Pe帽a y la acusa de encubrir a su madre en el caso del desaparecido Loan. : "Basta de mentiras y las amenazas".
馃憠 Segu铆 en Alerta 24/7
Los padres de Loan Pe帽a estuvieron en exclusiva con A24 a 161 d铆as de su desaparici贸n. El abogado querellante, Juan Pablo Gallego, habl贸 a Macarena Pe帽a y la acusa de encubrir a su madre en el caso del desaparecido Loan. : "Basta de mentiras y las amenazas".
馃憠 Segu铆 en Alerta 24/7
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NewsTranscript
00:00Take a look at today's report,
00:02which proves that Ram铆rez and Misapi
00:09are the ones who kidnapped Loan.
00:11And that Audelina is the brain,
00:12the organization that managed Audelina.
00:15What do you think about this?
00:17That they lack the how.
00:20Well, but he says they self-incriminated.
00:22I don't know what he should have.
00:24A statement?
00:25They lack the explanation.
00:27In all cases, they never explain how.
00:31Of course.
00:31I know.
00:32There's Dr. Sackler.
00:34There's Dr. Sackler, who you can consult later.
00:37He knows a lot more than I do, without a doubt.
00:40But a theory of the case of the lawyers
00:43does not mean any confession of the defendants.
00:47What goes against the defendants,
00:49is what they have declared in their statement before the judge,
00:53that is, in the inquiry.
00:55That's what goes against them.
00:57But the theory of the case is technically elaborated
01:00by the lawyers according to the position of the file,
01:03but in no way can it be interpreted,
01:06unless I am very outdated in procedural law
01:11and it is something that has now changed.
01:14For me, criminal procedural law was always the same.
01:17But it's okay.
01:18In addition, the theory of the case, in this case,
01:20as the doctor names it,
01:22lacks time, way and place.
01:24A theory of the case, that is, your theory
01:26that you are going to want to prove,
01:28has to have time, way and place.
01:30But Gallego said he has it.
01:31And where is it?
01:33In his mind.
01:34When and where is it?
01:35When and where is it?
01:36He says he already has it.
01:37How is it missing?
01:39He says that first they went for another creature
01:42and that there was a forcing to take another child
01:45in front of that.
01:46I don't have that file, but yes, of course.
01:48He says he has it.
01:49Then he says that Ram铆rez and Misapi
01:53were at the time of the kidnapping
01:56and that all this was handled,
01:59the brain of this is Laudelina,
02:01from what I heard this morning.
02:03And that he has accredited and proven
02:06time, way and place of these accused
02:11and that they self-incriminated in a statement.
02:17So that's what I don't understand.
02:18Either he has a lot of evidence that he hasn't provided yet
02:22or...
02:23Or he doesn't present it.
02:24Or there is something wrong here.
02:26Because there is...
02:27But no, it's what I was telling you, Grandpa.
02:29There is a strange mixture in the way the complaint explains
02:33that this self-incrimination does not exist,
02:38it can never exist,
02:39because in his statements
02:41they always denied having any participation
02:44and in the theory of the case that we have raised,
02:47any authority is also denied
02:49regarding the disappearance of Loan.
02:51As a result, this confession does not exist.
02:53But these statements,
02:56Marcelo, these overwhelming statements
02:58that Juan Pablo Gallego makes,
02:59which logically sound good to the ear,
03:01especially because one wants to know
03:04not only where this Loan is, but how they took it.
03:07Does that have a translation in some judicial writing?
03:10I say this because Gallego says it in front of the camera.
03:13Has he put it in writing in the file
03:16or is it just for the court?
03:18So far, there is not a single written statement
03:22presented and of knowledge of this part.
03:24But regardless of that,
03:27let's not forget that it is the position of a part
03:31and who is going to decide whether to process or not
03:33and up to there his authority arrives,
03:36it is the instruction judge,
03:38Dr. Poser-Penso,
03:40and it is the one who is going to decide
03:41neither what the defense says,
03:43nor what the complaint says,
03:44nor what the prosecution says,
03:47except if it promotes or not the action
03:49that the prosecution does have to take.
03:51The final decision is that of the judge.
03:55And this phrase,
03:56Macarena, return the Loan,
03:58you have asked, let's say,
04:00to deepen the investigation
04:03not only about Macarena,
04:04but also about Camila.
04:07What do you think of these sayings?
04:09Return the Loan,
04:11if not, your mother is going to receive
04:13a perpetual chain.
04:16Yes, it is a way, out there,
04:18a little happy of leadership
04:19who has not yet fully provided the testimony.
04:23Let's remember that reports have been asked
04:26regarding Macarena and Camila.
04:29They have been added and now,
04:31prudently, your lady has arranged measures
04:35that are very complex,
04:36but that undoubtedly reflect
04:39what we have said in the theory of the case
04:42regarding locating in time,
04:44way and place,
04:45each of the factors of the facts
04:48that happened that day.
04:49And that is what was entrusted now
04:52to a special group of the Federal Police,
04:54ten people designated by the trajectory,
04:57by the investigations they have done,
05:00to analyze all the evidence
05:02that is in the file
05:03and go to make their conclusions.
05:04They are going to set up a crock
05:06locating minute by minute
05:08where each person was
05:10and based on what elements.
05:12Ah, the antennas,
05:16the signals of the antennas,
05:17the locations,
05:18the conversations that are inside
05:21the content of each electronic device,
05:24the testimonies of those who were there,
05:27because let's remember, for example,
05:30that there are things that today,
05:32in the fragments that happened to me,
05:34that the father says
05:35and that he did not say
05:36when he declared as a witness.
05:38Today the mother said something
05:40that she had not declared either
05:42when she was a witness.
05:43That is, surely at some point,
05:46if we continue in the cause,
05:48we are going to ask them to declare again
05:51or maybe we wait for the trial
05:52because they are witnesses,
05:53they will always have to declare.
05:54What did the others contribute, Marcelo?
05:57What new elements?
06:00I leave it there
06:01because it is part of my strategy.
06:03But let's see, Marcelo,
06:04I am honest with you.
06:05I, against the father and the mother,
06:08it is very difficult for me.
06:11For a matter, it can change, yes,
06:13some aspects of the statement,
06:16but I know that what I understand
06:18and I am honest with you,
06:19I am going to be honest with you
06:20with a hand in my heart.
06:22I think he repeats what they tell him.
06:24I think he repeats what they tell him.
06:28Well, but they sign the writings
06:31and they also accuse in a vehement way
06:34of having...
06:35Yes, but it seems to me...
06:36I want you to explain a few things
06:38that they said today and not before.
06:40You know that I also noticed that, Marcelo,
06:45because in fact, in fact,
06:48today when I heard Jos茅 Padre say
06:50that he trusted Ram铆rez and Millepe and Benitez,
06:54which in my interview, in my house,
07:00he doesn't say that to me.
07:01He doesn't say that to me.
07:02No, quite the opposite.
07:03So clearly today, even Germ谩n, our colleague...
07:06In many journalistic notes,
07:10Nahuel, not only with you,
07:12he has said that Ram铆rez and Millepe
07:15have nothing to say.
07:18In fact, I...
07:19Now, collectively, suddenly,
07:22this argument is coming to him,
07:24which is even rude,
07:29because the meal was organized
07:31the previous Sunday by the grandmother
07:34in gratitude that she had found the cell phone.
07:37She was going to make a meal for the saint.
07:39So what plan are you talking about?
07:41Yes, yes.
07:42But let me listen.
07:44Let's analyze.
07:45In general, this is the surprise of Loan appearing.
07:49That is, they have a superlative intelligence
07:52in kidnapping minors from this band.
07:54In two hours they put everything together.
07:57Let me...
07:58Marcelo, let's listen together and analyze
08:01the cut of this video.
08:03Look.
08:04The great confession was almost inexplicable.
08:07It was the real one that gave many details.
08:09But recently Millepe and Ram铆rez
08:12I think they have given us a very big help
08:14to finish discovering the plot of the kidnapping
08:18because they have committed self-incrimination
08:20in a hurry to disincriminate.
08:23So they have given details.
08:26I insist, Germ谩n, you are a skilled judicial investigator
08:29as a journalist, right?
08:31There is no way...
08:32I mean, there was no sign of anguish
08:34since the New Day that they were invited,
08:36that they started eating, that they went to the park.
08:38Why do you only point with Millepe and Ram铆rez?
08:40No, Millepe...
08:41They are the kidnapping core.
08:43But they don't know where Loar is.
08:45Of course, Millepe, Ram铆rez, Ben铆tez and Laudelina
08:47are with Laudelina organizing.
08:49Now, who knows and who doesn't know where Loar is?
08:52All four.
08:53All four know.
08:55And what is the goal?
08:57What do you intuit or infer that was the final goal?
09:00Well, quickly, this gets dirty, right?
09:03Vera appears, Tello appears.
09:05Tello appears, spokespersons appear.
09:07That is, they quickly surround these people.
09:10The kidnapping core.
09:12It seems to me that...
09:14That's why I'm the wrong one
09:16and I have Marcelo and Saker here.
09:20One can freely, Saker,
09:22in front of society, say,
09:24well, it's done, this, this and this,
09:26and it's more than proven.
09:28And it's his theory as a lawyer.
09:30But he has to write my theory.
09:32Of course, well...
09:34Don't tell society.
09:36No written judgment supports it.
09:38Of course, the problem is that in the file
09:40there is nothing of what he is saying.
09:42Point one.
09:43You may agree or not.
09:45There are things that I agree with what he is saying.
09:47But yes, of course, it is not in the file,
09:49it is not in the report.
09:52He speaks as if he were one of us.
09:54He speaks as if he were the judge who decides.
09:56I am a journalist.
09:58I can say Ram铆rez and Millapi are the culprits
10:00of the kidnapping core.
10:02No, but remember something.
10:04Look at the photo that the production put the other time
10:06that has a flag behind.
10:08An Argentine flag behind.
10:10This boy must have some problem
10:12with the issue of judicial function,
10:14of ministerial function.
10:16Because obviously, in my study,
10:18I don't have an Argentine flag behind.
10:21Do you know why I give you the right?
10:23Today, in the note, it went long,
10:25it went against the arc
10:27and no one said, no, doctor, wait, wait, wait.
10:29Because it went long.
10:31He says in a moment,
10:33remember that I put someone in jail.
10:35You didn't put anyone in jail.
10:37Well, and I from my house said,
10:39no, stop, you didn't put anyone in jail.
10:41A judge puts you in jail.
10:43You are a lawyer.
10:45You are a lawyer.
10:47I'm going to summarize it for you.
10:49You sat next to the public prosecutor,
10:51who is the one who accuses,
10:53the one who was looking for evidence.
10:55That he doesn't put anyone in jail either.
10:57That he doesn't put anyone in jail either.
10:59And what you did accompanied that accusation.
11:01Nothing, absolutely nothing.
11:03Let's not question him for that.
11:05No, how not?
11:07You are accusing him of something
11:09that you can't do.
11:11You can't have people.
11:13But he said it out loud,
11:15I put someone in jail, he said.
11:17I didn't put anyone in jail.
11:19There is no huge gap, there is an abyss.
11:21We don't get anyone out either.
11:23What the judges decide.
11:25In the Gracie case, I say.
11:27Well.
11:29You don't agree.
11:31Well.
11:33I'm going to explain something to you as a lawyer.
11:35The most difficult role for the defendant
11:37is defense.
11:39Of course, if I put myself as a defendant,
11:41I will always have the battles won.
11:43I don't arrest him or add merit to him.
11:45No.
11:47The role of the lawyer as a defender
11:49and the role of the lawyer as a believer.
11:51As a believer to accompany.
11:53But he also ended up with a conviction.
11:55But not because it was him.
11:57There is a conviction against Ram铆rez and Millapi.
11:59But not because it was him.
12:01We are going to apologize to him on Monday.
12:03Because he was right, Gallego.
12:05In case there is a conviction for Millapi
12:07and all these people,
12:09he is not the author of that conviction.
12:11Who convicts him.
12:13Well.
12:15That's the part where he helps by bringing elements.
12:17He didn't bring anything.
12:19He sits here on television and the one who brings is the prosecutor.
12:21There is time, but there is time.
12:23The defense, and not because the doctor is here,
12:25but the defense is doing more work
12:27to find the truth
12:29than Querella herself.
12:31Let's see.
12:33We asked Dr. Ocasio-Marcelo,
12:35are you going to resign now,
12:37let's say, as a lawyer for Ram铆rez and Millapi,
12:39in the face of the facts?
12:41If they are guilty,
12:43I take a step aside.
12:45Are you meditating your resignation?
12:47No, no, not at all.
12:49I mean, I keep that
12:51in the sense that
12:53I explained why
12:55they may or may not agree with me,
12:57but it would mean for Monty
12:59and for me
13:01a distrust from the client
13:03of not having told us all the truth
13:05at the time of defining
13:07whether we accepted or not.
13:09But this
13:11does not mean
13:13what we want to say.
13:15If a lawyer comes
13:17who is on duty now in Querella
13:19for the moment
13:21and accuses them
13:23without any valid argument
13:25from the file,
13:27in no way can it mean a test against them.
13:29What elements are there
13:31to support the innocence
13:33of Ram铆rez and Millapi?
13:35I know that, understand my question,
13:37they kill elements
13:39for a sentence,
13:41but what elements are there
13:43to absolve them?
13:47Because there is a presumption
13:49of innocence.
13:51What elements are there
13:53for the State to destroy
13:55that presumption?
13:57Well, but can I ask
13:59from the privilege or not?
14:01Yes, of course,
14:03but it is a question with a double intention,
14:05which is the statement
14:07of the lawyer.
14:09What you don't understand
14:11is that Diego
14:13feels a personal appreciation
14:15for Gallego.
14:17No, no, of course,
14:19it's true.
14:21You are my friend,
14:23and you know that I give my life
14:25for you.
14:27I have to be realistic.
14:29I know that you are a friend
14:31and you love him.
14:33Now I have my doubts.
14:35Why?
14:37Because he is my colleague.
14:39But he left a lot to be said
14:41with the attitude of the last...
14:43Yes, Marcelo, go ahead.
14:45Look, allow me,
14:47let's do an exercise,
14:49taking advantage of the fact
14:51that there is an experienced lawyer.
14:53More or less.
14:55But what I say is true,
14:57and he will know how to interpret
14:59what I am going to say.
15:01I am sure that you
15:03put the sayings of one and the other
15:05and load all the elements
15:07of proof and come out innocent.
15:09Not just Millapi, Ram铆rez.
15:15Because artificial intelligence
15:17has not yet replaced the craft
15:19that judges do and lawyers do.
15:21And no,
15:23let's not forget that artificial intelligence
15:25is an artificial intelligence
15:27and that judges have that power
15:29that is called criterion.
15:31Yes, that's why I say
15:33that the task is artisanal
15:35and it is not just to write
15:37on a piece of paper and say it
15:39or make a little machine say
15:41the result that may sound nice.
15:43Well, you with elegance
15:45are absorbing your own clients.
15:47If we fall to Gallego,
15:49each one does his game.
15:51Gallego accuses, Barra condemns
15:53and Hanson, through artificial intelligence,
15:55absorbs the defendants.
15:59Diego, I explain it.
16:01I explain why the presumption
16:03of innocence was not broken
16:05or does not break in the case
16:07of Ram铆rez and Millapi.
16:09What the court does not explain
16:11is why they should be
16:13processed.
16:15In other words, there are no elements
16:17in their speech that indicate
16:19why, beyond saying it
16:21with a vehemence,
16:23perhaps in their style,
16:25regardless of that.
16:27Well, but there are many doubts.
16:29I am sincere.
16:31I heard it today.
16:33I say, he must have the proof
16:35under his sleeve and is waiting
16:37for the moment.
16:39I am sincere.
16:41There comes a time when
16:43Barra cannot throw himself
16:45at the ball like that.
16:47Well, it's desperate.
16:49With all due respect to Marcelo,
16:51I do not want to put him
16:53in any compromise.
16:55He still has enough tools
16:57to get out of any situation.
16:59But there were three adults.
17:01Yes.
17:03And suddenly,
17:05in the middle of a lost place,
17:07the child disappears.
17:09Well, logically,
17:11when you suspect the three adults
17:13for something, they are detained.
17:15Now that there are elements...
17:17I repeat again,
17:19so that my position is clear.
17:21I am not blaming anyone.
17:23No one.
17:25But do not put a roof on me.
17:27Do not tell me that this is
17:29Ramire Misapi Benitez Laudelina
17:31because you put a roof on me.
17:33Go up, because four people
17:35of this type cannot handle
17:37a kidnapping or a sheep.
17:39Not even a sheep.
17:41It does not have the logistics
17:43to be able to disappear
17:45a body for five months.
17:47So, can you be responsible?
17:49Let justice determine it.
17:51Do not put a roof on me.
17:53Do you want to shut up
17:55and be in jail for five months?
17:57Okay, whatever you want,
17:59but take me up.
18:01Take me up,
18:03because five months
18:05to disappear a body,
18:07they do not do it.
18:09Four characters...
18:11I want to be very careful
18:13with the word.
18:15They do not have the capacity
18:17neither psychic,
18:19nor economic
18:21to disappear a body.
18:23It is not an organization.
18:25It can be a link,
18:27not an organization.
18:29There he began to climb.
18:31He began to climb up.
18:33And do not tell me,
18:35well, do you want me to quote
18:37Pellegrini and Kodassi?
18:39Bring them to me,
18:41give me the proof.
18:43Did he talk about Kodassi and Pellegrini?
18:45Yes, of course.
18:47I see that you point to Ram铆rez
18:49and Mischiappi, nothing more.
18:51And Kodassi?
18:53Well, no, what happens,
18:55he says that there is a second cause.
18:57You see how they start to take you
18:59through a labyrinth.
19:01And he ended up telling him,
19:03Laudelina, tell me where Lohan is
19:05so I can get to Kodassi.
19:07Bring to Kodassi.
19:09I do not want them to put a roof.
19:11Yes, and look,
19:13I want to add to what you said.
19:15Why does Gallego
19:17never even name
19:19P茅rez and Cahillaba?
19:21Today he named him
19:23because Germ谩n took him.
19:25Germ谩n took him to say
19:27what happened.
19:29Because you say,
19:31I even confuse the names,
19:33Pellegrini and Kodassi.
19:35They are out of all this.
19:37No, it's a parallel cause,
19:39coup d'茅tat.
19:41Why is it only pointed to Mischiappi
19:43and not P茅rez and Cahillaba?
19:45Well, today he named them.
19:47What Gallego said is that
19:49some investigations are going to come out,
19:51which were carried out a long time ago,
19:53that in the next few hours there should be
19:55investigations of P茅rez.
19:57Yes, but did you listen well?
19:59Yes, I agree with you.
20:01I repeat what Gallego said.
20:03About Maciel or about P茅rez?
20:05About P茅rez.
20:07It is very intelligent
20:09in the part that says
20:11there would be.
20:13Well, yes.
20:15He said there would be.
20:17Let's hope because there would be.
20:19He would have.
20:21You know it's a counterpotential.
20:23To open the umbrella.
20:25Well, there would be.
20:27I don't know.
20:29Yes, in the same way he said there would be
20:31executions in the next few hours,
20:33he said it a month ago.
20:35There would be a forgery before taking him to Lohan.
20:37He could have.
20:39You can tell me this better, Omar.
20:41He has another degree of commitment.
20:43Of course, of course.
20:45Of responsibility.
20:47Especially if you have the parents,
20:49Jos茅 and Mar铆a, by your side.
20:51But what does that show?
20:53Either the technical ignorance of the law
20:55or the lack of inhibition
20:57in lying and selling a terrible smoke
20:59that really the only thing
21:01he does.
21:03You look at the detail that we are
21:05practically even depending on
21:07the people who are in jail
21:09and we are not raising
21:11their criminality.
21:13Why does this happen?
21:15This happens because precisely the effect
21:17that causes the quarrel is this.
21:19That we are so outraged
21:21by the false statements,
21:23selling smoke of this character
21:25and we do not give importance to reality.
21:27You as a lawyer, when you say there would be,
21:29what do you mean?
21:31Because you are a lawyer just like him.
21:33Yes, I'm trying to take off
21:35and the technical language is
21:37it is not approved, it is my theory,
21:39but I have no evidence.
21:41But you in a written statement would never put a conditional.
21:43No, I have to ...
21:45You have to prove it by affirming it.
21:47You are convinced
21:49with the evidence you gathered
21:51this, this and this of such a person.
21:53If you put open,
21:55the judge who has to judge you
21:57is going to say, but bring me the evidence.
21:59In other words, you are not convinced,
22:01less I will be.
22:03For Hanson who is also listening,
22:05Richard Vallejos,
22:07the lawyer of Maciel who is looking at us.
22:09What happened?
22:11What happened?
22:13He has an opinion.
22:15Send him a big greeting.
22:17I do not know why you laugh.
22:19Because I know your tones.
22:21What do you think? Let him think.
22:23Do you want to be attacked?
22:25No, no, no.
22:27No, no, no.
22:29But I think it's good.
22:31But I think it would be good
22:33that this boy also thinks.
22:35Yes, Dr. Vallejos.
22:37Dr. Vallejos.
22:39For you, Dr. Vallejos.
22:41You did a postgraduate in Salamanca.
22:43You know what happens?
22:45I support these lawyers who are unnoticed.
22:47Stop, stop, stop.
22:49Trying to get ahead
22:51because they are loyal to the cause.
22:53This is the same.
22:55This is the same I heard last night.
22:57He said that the only lawyer
22:59that he trusts and sees a light of hope
23:01is Mendes.
23:03About the quarrel.
23:05About the quarrel, he says.
23:07I heard it yesterday.
23:09I took my time.
23:11No.
23:13Do you know what I would like to ask Mendes?
23:15Since you support him.
23:17In what was the complaint
23:19that he himself made as a sponsor
23:21of the parents of Lohan
23:23of the complaint against Valdez?
23:25I think it was...
23:27I'm looking at the date.
23:29There was no vote.
23:31It was in favor of Valdez.
23:33Gaciego, Mendes,
23:35they didn't go any further.
23:37No.
23:39I have nothing to do with that, guys.
23:41I didn't ask for it.
23:43He said that.
23:45It's in his right.
23:47But let's make something clear.
23:49All the lawyers
23:51who are working now
23:53and all the lawyers
23:55who went from the federal capital
23:57really, the only thing they did
23:59was to sell smoke,
24:01to get notes for the show
24:03and nothing else.
24:05No, no, because it's not my place.
24:07It's not my function.
24:09And besides, there's no money.
24:11How come there's no money?
24:13How come there's no money?
24:15He says there's no money.
24:17Gaciego said he's not getting
24:19a salary for what he's doing.
24:21No, no, no.
24:23All of that leads to the fact
24:25that the literal function
24:27is not full and in cash.
24:29No, no.
24:31Now I say, why wouldn't you accept?
24:33Because it doesn't correspond to me.
24:35Because that place has to be exercised
24:37in principle by people
24:39who are in the vicinity,
24:41in principle in the vicinity
24:43to be in contact with the court.
24:45I can't exercise a case
24:47where I'm in Buenos Aires,
24:49sitting and doing it by Zoom.
24:51I need to be in an active role.
24:53So that's the reality.
24:55Well, Mar, if the cause becomes your priority,
24:57Burlando was constantly traveling.
24:59I think the distance, I don't know if it's an impediment,
25:01if we're looking for someone
25:03who has experience, as you said,
25:05and as you mentioned the rest of the AOAs.
25:07But Burlando didn't do it for money.
25:09He didn't do it for money either.
25:11There was marketing.
25:13The same, guys, because at one point
25:15Gaciego complains that there are
25:17journalists who are trying to get out of the cause.
25:19Clearly, from this place,
25:21I don't care who it is,
25:23I'm not going to pick up a phone.
25:25Because I also heard,
25:27which is also something he's been talking about,
25:29he talks about a chat
25:31that I don't know what chat he's talking about.
25:33He talks about journalists,
25:35but he doesn't name the journalists.
25:37So what one wants is to start
25:39to make things clear.
25:43Yes, for example, I say
25:45that there are journalists
25:47who were in the chat with the American.
25:49I want to know who they are.
25:51I need to know who they are.
25:53And if there is proof
25:55of a journalist
25:57who is committing a crime,
25:59you have to report it, maestro.
26:01You have to report it.
26:03But with name and last name.
26:05Because you tell me,
26:07well, but I didn't talk about you.
26:09Yes, but I feel touched.
26:11I feel touched because you don't clarify who it is.
26:13So,
26:15things face.
26:17Because when I say, Dr. Gallego,
26:19I give you the face and I name you.
26:21So,
26:23the good thing would be to clarify
26:25who the journalists are,
26:27who is the one who wants to give the coup d'etat,
26:29who are those who wanted,
26:31as I said, the coup d'etat.
26:33There are a lot of phrases
26:35that bounce off my head
26:37that I don't have the character.
26:39So I want to know it too.
26:41Eh?
26:43What?
26:45Are we good?
26:47No, no, if you and Sacker
26:49have a program.
26:51Are we good?
26:53Yes, of course.
26:55Yes.
26:57Yes.
26:59Yes.
27:01Yes.
27:03Yes.
27:05Yes.
27:07Yes.
27:09Yes.
27:13Yes.
27:23Yes.
27:39Hola.
27:40Humo.
27:41Humo, tal cual.
27:42Chirib铆n, que con la banda de Dupuy,
27:44perd贸n, Ram贸n, querido, vos sab茅s que lo digo
27:46de manera ir贸nica.
27:47La banda Dupuy con Chirib铆n buscaban cinco veces, creo,
27:51corr铆jame, pidieron la detenci贸n de Chirib铆n,
27:54la fiscal铆a se hart贸 la paciencia,
27:57le dijo, muchacho, c贸rtenla, ya repetimos 20 veces
28:00que no vamos a detener a nadie, est谩 mal pedido esto,
28:03no se sostienen absolutamente nada,
28:05y ahora toda esta teor铆a de P茅rez, Michapi,
28:10va por la misma l铆nea, humo, humo,
28:14no hay ninguna prueba presentada en la justicia.
28:17No est谩 bueno.
28:18El c贸mo, el cu谩ndo, el por qu茅,
28:20no hay ninguna prueba presentada en la causa.
28:22Voy a ser de amigo de Gallego.
28:24S铆, lo sos.
28:25Voy a ser de amigo de Gallego.
28:28S铆, dale, dale, segu铆.
28:31No voy a repetirlo, si no parece una cosa.
28:33Claro, dale.
28:34Escuchame, est谩, no, pero, para, para, para.
28:37Si no, para, escuch谩.
28:38Tu amigo es el que dijo que nos re铆mos de los padres,
28:41que nos re铆mos de Lohan, que cargamos la fuerza.
28:44Pero no somos amigos, yo ten铆a una excelente relaci贸n
28:47tambi茅n con Gallego, pero no es amigo.
28:48S铆, claro que s铆.
28:49Es amigo, uno dice amigo, hay buena sinton铆a,
28:52amigo laboral.
28:53Pero si te dice Dieguito, vos le dec铆s Juanpi.
28:56Hay buena onda.
28:57Vos le dec铆s Juanpi, el otro le dice Dieguito,
28:58son amigos.
28:59Hay muchas causas acerca de informaci贸n.
29:01驴Muchas causas?
29:02驴Cu谩les?
29:03En varias causas.
29:04驴Cu谩les?
29:05No vienen al caso.
29:06驴Cu谩les?
29:06Una de un locutor que estuvo denunciado por violencia
29:08de g茅nero.
29:10La causa Grassy tambi茅n, hemos trabajado juntos.
29:13Ah, la de Grassy tambi茅n.
29:14Trabajado juntos significa, nos trae informaci贸n y nosotros
29:17la damos a conocer.
29:18驴Cu谩l m谩s?
29:19驴Y la de Grassy?
29:19Ah, s铆, no se te est谩 mal.
29:20驴La del padre Grassy?
29:22驴Y cu谩l m谩s?
29:22Y para, no, la de, la de.
29:24Ahora, soy el bi贸grafo de Gallego, ahora.
29:27驴Qu茅 quer铆as decir?
29:27Que tengo que saber todas las causas.
29:29驴A d贸nde vas?
29:29Hablo de la pol铆tica.
29:30Estudia derecho, Diego, vos est谩s estudiando derecho.
29:33Me est谩 perdiendo, 驴te das cuenta?
29:34驴Por eso, qu茅 quer铆as decir?
29:35Me acord茅.
29:35Vos me est谩s perdiendo a m铆.
29:37Queda un poco, Diego.
29:37Ah, bueno.
29:38No, no, vamos, vamos.
29:39Vamos, que estamos pegando el 煤ltimo ratito.
29:42驴Qu茅 digo en defensa de Gallego?
29:44驴Es Gallego el que tiene que impulsar,
29:47el 煤nico que tiene que echar luz en la causa, o es la justicia?
29:50No, es el fiscal.
29:50El fiscal.
29:51驴Es m谩s responsable Gallego que el fiscal?
29:53No.
29:54No.
29:54No.
29:55La principal responsabilidad la tiene la justicia.
29:57Claro.
29:57Moralmente marca el desnudro del patrocinio letrado,
30:03a favor de las v铆ctimas.
30:04Entonces, a uno le duele, y creo yo que estamos todos con este
30:09dolor, de ver los pobres padres de Lohan, realmente,
30:13c贸mo est谩n siendo representados.
30:14驴Y qu茅 tiene que decir Gallego?
30:15Son todos inocentes, tendr铆a que estar todos en su casa.
30:18No.
30:18No, no.
30:19Tendr铆a que ir a la justicia.
30:22Ir a la justicia.
30:23Llevar pruebas al expediente, Diego.
30:25Si no llevas pruebas al expediente,
30:26lo que est谩s haciendo es d谩ndole tiempo a la defensa,
30:30justamente con estas estupideces al aire de este
30:33el otro, hizo este, hizo el otro.
30:34No, perd贸n.
30:35Yo como periodista, e incluso como espectadora,
30:37lo que espero es que vaya a la justicia,
30:38vaya al Poder Judicial, y que despu茅s cuente lo que lleva 茅l
30:41al expediente.
30:42No que el camino sea el inverso.
30:44Que primero diga sus posiciones, y despu茅s, en tal caso,
30:46vaya a la justicia.
30:47Expresiones de deseo.
30:48Si la familia de Lohan fuera un poco m谩s 谩vida y tuviera un
30:52poco m谩s de roce social, 驴sab茅s la patada que le pega,
30:56no solo a este, sino a todos los abogados que estuvieron,
31:00excepto a este que yo conf铆o y creo que lo est谩 haciendo
31:03dignamente?
31:04驴Qui茅n?
31:04O lo estaba haciendo dignamente, que era M茅ndez.
31:07驴Qui茅n?
31:07M茅ndez.
31:07驴Por qu茅 defiende a M茅ndez?
31:09驴Desde cu谩ndo?
31:09驴Sabes por qu茅 lo defiende a M茅ndez?
31:10El otro a M茅ndez, ac谩.
31:11Quiero hablar Hanson tambi茅n.
31:12Ac谩 hay que buscar a Lohan, muchachos.
31:14Dejar de buscar a M茅ndez.
31:15Porque es el 煤nico que ten铆a la calceta del lugar y que
31:18realmente lo hizo por algo.
31:19Despu茅s el resto fueron a hacer humo.
31:21Y a hacer humo, realmente.
31:22Pero si la misma justicia, escucha bien,
31:25vos sab茅s mejor que yo, la justicia federal no puede
31:29encontrar una soluci贸n al caso si no le hubiesen pedido una
31:32pr贸rroga de la instrucci贸n, de la investigaci贸n.
31:35驴Qu茅 arma puede tener el gallego si no le gana ning煤n m茅rito?
31:38No es culpable.
31:38Para investigar el poder del Estado.
31:40Claro, claro, claro.
31:41No es culpable.
31:42脡l es un simple personaje que sale a hacer payasaditas a la
31:46televisi贸n y habla con los periodistas y toda esa
31:48historia.
31:49Pero no hace ni m谩s ni menos para la causa.
31:52Simplemente la desaz贸n moral que debe tener esa familia,
31:55si tuvieran alg煤n grado de conciencia de roce social,
31:59de qu茅 abogado los est谩 representando.
32:01Y no solo este, sino uno anterior y otro anterior.
32:05Bastantes, 驴eh?
32:06Y vos f铆jate que en las defensas pas贸.
32:09Y mir谩 que yo soy amigo de la doctora Chirib铆n.
32:11Yo no entiendo qu茅 hace la doctora Chirib铆n ah铆.
32:14No tendr铆a que estar.
32:15驴D贸nde est谩 Chirib铆n?
32:15Ella tiene que estar defendiendo a alguien.
32:17驴D贸nde est谩 tu amiga?
32:18驴C贸mo?
32:19驴D贸nde est谩 tu amiga?
32:20驴Me escuchas?
32:21Dejen de chicarles entre ustedes,
32:23porque si no estamos haciendo lo mismo que le estamos
32:24ofrendiendo a los dem谩s.
32:25驴No se est谩n contagiando?
32:26Escucha.
32:27驴Me vas a extra帽ar?
32:28No, no te voy a extra帽ar.
32:29Yo s茅 que me vas a extra帽ar.
32:30Pero pregunto de verdad.
32:31驴Chirib铆n sigue representando?
32:32Chirib铆n sigue siendo abogada de Laudelina Pe帽a, 驴bien?
32:40Que obviamente hay momentos en la vida que vos empez谩s a hacer
32:46una estrategia y te ocult谩s.
32:48Y no est谩 mal.
32:49Claro, est谩 bien.
32:50Y no est谩 mal.
32:52驴O no?
32:53No s茅.
32:54Pero yo lo que hablo con ella en privado como por una amistad,
32:58es en lo privado y no es de la causa LOAN.
33:00S铆.
33:01Yo se lo dije.
33:02Ella no tendr铆a que haber asumido el cargo.
33:03驴Por qu茅?
33:04No tendr铆a que haber asumido el cargo porque no hab铆a dinero.
33:07Y si no hab铆a dinero, el trabajo se transforma en marketing.
33:10Bueno, 驴un marketing un trabajo para ti?
33:11No, jam谩s.
33:12驴Eh?
33:13No, jam谩s.
33:14No, pues ya s茅.
33:15Ya, te rompes el bolsillo.
33:16No, no, no.
33:17Pero jam谩s, porque no tendr铆a sentido.
33:19驴No tendr铆a sentido?
33:20En el estudio, te lo pueden decir los chicos que la trabajan.
33:22Ya hiciste un gesto raro.
33:23No, no.
33:24Te puedo decir algo.
33:25Estoy ac谩.
33:26No sirve trabajar gratuitamente.
33:28Es indigno para el abogado.
33:30Ustedes vienen ac谩 gratis.
33:31No, no vienen gratis.
33:32Bueno, par谩.
33:33M茅ndez empez贸 gratis.
33:34Empez贸 gratis, pero termin贸 cobrando.
33:3620 millones.
33:37Gracias, Anahuel.
33:38Y est谩 bien.
33:39No, no.
33:40Gracias, Anahuel.
33:41No basta de decir Anahuel.
33:42Otro amigo tuyo.
33:43No, no.
33:44Par谩, par谩, par谩.
33:45No, gracias al programa.
33:46No, no, par谩, par谩.
33:47La gente.
33:48No, gracias al programa.
33:49S铆, pero nosotros fuimos el canal.
33:50No, pero ellos decidieron.
33:51La familia decidi贸 pagar.
33:52La familia decidi贸.
33:53Se podr铆a no haberle dado 20 millones.
33:55Nosotros fuimos un puente para que reciban plata porque estaban buscando a su hermano,
33:58a su hijo, a su primo.
33:59Exactamente.
34:00Total.
34:01En este caso, y otra vez.
34:02Esper谩.
34:03Justo yo ese d铆a en el programa no estuve.
34:05Gracias a nosotros.
34:07Se despeg贸.
34:08Gracias a nosotros, millones de personas en la Argentina ayudaron a la familia de Loan.
34:14Gracias a nosotros.
34:16驴Cu谩nta plata?
34:17驴Qu茅 hicieron con la plata?
34:19驴En qu茅 la gastaron?
34:20驴Para d贸nde la llevaron?
34:21En absoluto es responsabilidad de nadie m谩s que de la gente que recibi贸 esa plata.
34:27Despu茅s, son 200, 300 millones, 500 millones.
34:31No nos interesa.
34:33驴Le trasladaron 30 millones de pesos al abogado porque hab铆a que pagarle sus honorarios?
34:37Est谩 perfecto.
34:38驴Les cobr贸 30 millones?
34:40Como acaba de decir L贸pez S谩quer, que yo lo...
34:42Es en una de las pocas cosas que coincido.
34:44Tiene que cobrar por su trabajo profesional.
34:47Seguramente le debe haber mandado una factura, por mi representaci贸n, no s茅 qu茅.
34:52Pierre le est谩 reclamando 60 palos a Maciel por su representaci贸n legal.
34:58Tienen que cobrar.
35:00No hay ninguna discusi贸n.
35:01No, sin duda.
35:02Esta Hanson.
35:03Por supuesto.
35:04Marcelo, 驴qu茅 opinas de todo as铆?
35:06Lo tenemos callado hace rato.
35:07S铆.
35:08Estaba comiendo, mir谩.
35:09Hace ratito quer铆as aportar algo.
35:10Marcelo, buen provecho.
35:11Buen provecho.
35:13Estoy aprendiendo mucho con ustedes.
35:15Ah, bueno.
35:16驴A qu茅?
35:17驴De qu茅?
35:18驴De leyes?
35:19De leyes no.
35:20Bueno, de todo.
35:21Siempre se aprende escuchando, eso me ense帽aron de chico.
35:24Sin duda.
35:25Es mejor escuchar que hablar.
35:26Yo no s茅 si bueno o malo lo que dijo, pero no importa, d茅jalo pasar.
35:29Est谩 cargando.
35:30No, yo lo que quer铆a decir hoy era que, bueno, o sea, el principio constitucional
35:37de inocencia est谩 a cargo de la justicia romperlo y la defensa con decir no fui o negar
35:46todo le es suficiente, o sea, pero ac谩 hemos ido m谩s all谩 y tal es as铆 que han podido
35:54llegar a la famosa camioneta y a los autos a ra铆z de una presentaci贸n nuestra.
36:00Entonces pareciera que hoy se olvidan de todo eso.
36:03Hoy dijo que tambi茅n, hoy llegaban pr贸ximos, muy pronto, las pericias al auto y a la camioneta.
36:11驴De qu茅 pericia estaba hablando?
36:13No s茅.
36:14驴Eh?
36:15La verdad que cada vez est谩 m谩s misterioso.
36:17Pero tiene que estar en el expediente eso, un pedido o no.
36:22Ya se terminaron todas las pericias.
36:24Pero dice que en estas horas llegaban unas pericias.
36:27Claro, vos deber铆as saberlo o no, Marcelo, si Gallego tiene esa informaci贸n deber铆a
36:30estar en el expediente, a menos que no est茅.
36:32No hay ninguna pericia pendiente.
36:34Las pericias pendientes son respecto de los 煤ltimos 10 detenidos.
36:38Bueno, entonces...
36:40Hiciste m谩s vos, mira la pregunta, porque lo desliz贸.
36:44驴Hiciste m谩s vos por la aparici贸n de Loan que Gallego?
36:48No, yo digo que nosotros hemos colaborado desde el inicio.
36:53驴Por qu茅?
36:54Por doble motivo.
36:55Primero porque si se descubre qu茅 pas贸 con Loan estamos seguros de que Millapi y
37:00Ramirez quedan despegados.
37:02Y segundo, porque nuestra tarea de defensa es precisamente colaborar los delincuentes
37:09de Ramirez y Millapi y no los ubican en una posici贸n criminal.
37:17Yo te digo lo que pas贸 con Loan.
37:20Marcelo, se est谩 empezando a escuchar un poquito mal, entiendo que debe ser la se帽al.
37:26Pero mientras te pregunto, y s茅 que te voy a poner en un lugar inc贸modo porque es hablar
37:29de un colega y alguien que forma parte de la causa.
37:32驴Qu茅 crees que est谩 haciendo Gallego?
37:34驴Que tiene que ver con una estrategia que es m谩s show, que la informaci贸n la tiene
37:38y todav铆a no fue a la justicia?
37:41Si escuchan con atenci贸n toda la entrevista de hoy, hay un p谩rrafo donde 茅l habla precisamente
37:48de una disputa pol铆tica entre dos facciones.
37:53驴Una disputa pol铆tica entre dos facciones?
37:55驴Y a qu茅 dos facciones se refiere?
37:58Ser铆a bueno preguntarle a 茅l que ampl铆e.
38:01Yo creo que sea que se refiere.
38:03Pero que ampl铆e 茅l a qui茅n se refiri贸 a eso.
38:06Me parece que la respuesta m铆a a tu pregunta, Lu, viene por ah铆.
38:12S铆, Marcelo, yo te pregunto porque 茅l no nos atiende.
38:15Me encantar铆a pregunt谩rselo a 茅l, pero no tiene muchas ganas de hablar con nosotros.
38:19Tiene manera, porque como periodista tiene manera por ah铆 alg煤n colega que le haga
38:23la pregunta concreta.
38:25Es incre铆ble, 驴no? Que hay que enviar a un emisario para que...
38:28Innecesario, chico. Innecesario.
38:35Reci茅n S谩car dijo que 茅l ten铆a...
38:37S铆, lo escuch茅, pero lo dej茅 pasar de largo, porque dije, me va a tirar cualquier cosa.
38:41No, no. La teor铆a que tengo del principio...
38:46Mir谩 que est谩 sentado en el mismo lugar que Gallego.
38:49Es contagioso.
38:51Bueno, no, lo vengo sosteniendo del primer d铆a.
38:54Hay una persona que es el homicida, atento al art铆culo 119, tercer p谩rrafo.
39:02Homicida.
39:03Homicidio, con previo abuso, y esa es mi teor铆a.
39:06Y te digo qui茅n es, es Ben铆tez.
39:08Y te digo por qu茅 y te digo tiempo, modo y lugar.
39:11Te la puedo sentar, es larga, por supuesto no da para decirla toda al aire,
39:15pero es as铆.
39:16Entonces, vayan por ese lado.
39:18驴Y el cuerpo d贸nde est谩?
39:20Era gran inc贸gnita.
39:22驴Vos te cre茅s que Ben铆tez solo puede esconder 5 meses un cuerpo, de verdad?
39:25Y a veces con la falencia investigativa que hubo en ese lugar.
39:29驴Por qu茅 lo cubrieron todos los grandes, bajan generales, llegaron generales, llegan senadores?
39:34驴Por Ben铆tez?
39:36No, no lo cubrieron. No coincido que lo hayan cubierto o efectuado alg煤n encubrimiento.
39:41Lo que entiendo yo que hubo torpezas judiciales,
39:44y esas torpezas judiciales llevaron a que todos quer铆an estar ah铆,
39:49todos se cuidaban los otros chanchullos que ten铆an,
39:52entonces fueron a meterse en ese problema justamente para cuidar los otros chanchullos.
39:58No creo que ninguno de todos.
39:59Fue una de las, vos sab茅s que en un principio era una de las teor铆as, pero bueno.
40:03La descart茅 desde el primer momento.
40:05S铆, lo s茅, lo s茅, y hoy lo hablamos antes del aire.
40:07La cosa es que yo iba por otra versi贸n distinta a la tuya.
40:10Fue, lo que est谩 diciendo Omar, fue una de las primeras teor铆as.
40:13Tipo, cubrime esta, porque vos sab茅s, estoy inventando, no me manden ninguna carta de documento.
40:19Si no me la respondes vos.
40:21Como yo vendo falopa ac谩 en el barrio, te cubro a vos que hiciste esto,
40:25y vos una vuelta, pame a mi, porque fue una de las teor铆as.
40:28Y vos que traes contrabando de no s茅 qu茅, te pido que me tapes porque me mand茅 una macana.
40:33Claro.
40:34Hab铆a sido una teor铆a.
40:35Bueno, a Marcelo lo beneficiar铆a esta teor铆a.
40:36Est谩 bien, pero yo no.
40:37M谩s simple de lo que nosotros pens谩bamos.
40:39Yo pens茅 por un camino as铆.
40:41驴D贸nde est谩 el cuerpo, Chipot?
40:43Bueno, a buscarlo.
40:45Y siete personas venidas.
40:47No intervino solo corrientes en la b煤squeda de lo alto.
40:51S铆, s铆, claro, claro.
40:52Intervino fuerzas federales.
40:54La bonaerense con drones, con cosas que te ven abajo de la c谩mara.
40:58Hay que buscarlo.
40:59驴Dio todo negativo?
41:00No, est谩 bien, pero...
41:02Ah铆 te doy la derecha.
41:03No, no, no.
41:04A las fuerzas federales, en este caso, no las vulneras.
41:06Est谩 bien, no, no.
41:07No las vulneras.
41:08Hay que buscar en una extensi贸n grande.
41:10No importa.
41:11Por otros casos que yo he cubierto,
41:15gente que me pasaba informaci贸n, nos dec铆an esto.
41:18Vos pod茅s tener la sospecha sobre cualquier fuerza,
41:21y hasta estar铆a bien.
41:23Pero llega un momento que la informaci贸n se sabe.
41:28Claro.
41:29Llega un momento que cuando interviene otra fuerza,
41:33son leales, trabajan para el orden,
41:35trabajan para darnos seguridad.
41:37Ahora, hay un chico desaparecido, no lo cubre nadie.
41:41A ver, tratemos de abonar la actividad de Omar.
41:43No van a poder cubrir nadie.
41:45Y te voy a agregar una sola cosita, nada m谩s.
41:47Maciel, que es un gordo delincuente...
41:50Ah, te est谩 mirando el abogado.
41:51No, est谩 bien.
41:52Es un delincuente, con sus chachullos, con sus cosas raras.
41:56No tiene absolutamente nada que ver,
41:58no tendr铆a que estar ni detenido.
41:59驴C贸mo que no?
42:00No.
42:01驴C贸mo que no?
42:02No hay una raz贸n concreta para que este tipo detenga.
42:05驴Te parece entorpezar la causa?
42:07No es m煤sica para...
42:09Libro de guardia.
42:11Se va de la comisar铆a.
42:12No est谩 mal.
42:13No est谩 mal.
42:14La comisar铆a no est谩 mal.
42:15驴Qui茅n es responsable del libro de guardia?
42:17El titular de la dependencia.
42:19Claramente el titular de la dependencia.
42:21驴Sab茅s lo que estaba haciendo Maciel cuando el chico desapareci贸?
42:23Morfando, comiendo un asado,
42:25y cuando lo llamaron y qued贸 donde desapareci贸 un chico,
42:27dijo, ah, bueno...
42:28Y sigui贸 comiendo el tipo.
42:30Entonces, si el tipo recibe el llamado,
42:32estaba comiendo como un destajado,
42:34como si fuera la 煤ltima cena,
42:36viendo a ver cu谩ndo pasaba a buscar sus coimas.
42:40驴Y le hacen una cama perdiendo la hoja del d铆a?
42:42驴Le hicieron una cama, pobre Maciel?
42:44Una cosa es que haya tenido una intervenci贸n directa con el crimen,
42:47y otra cosa es que haya tenido una encubrimiento.
42:50Son dos cosas distintas.
42:52Entonces, si est谩 detenido por encubrimiento,
42:54no hay peligro de fuga ni entornamiento de la justicia.
42:57Al gordo Maciel tiene que estar en la c谩rcel.
42:59Ret铆ralo de gordo.
43:01Escuch谩.
43:02El Maciel, perd贸n. El polic铆a Maciel, el gordo.
43:04驴Me escuch谩s, Aker?
43:05S铆.
43:06驴Te est谩s pareciendo a Diego?
43:07S铆, perd贸n.
43:08Tranquilo.
43:10No preservaste el escenario del crimen.
43:12驴S铆? La escena del crimen.
43:13Es normal.
43:14No lo convierte en criminal.
43:15Estoy de acuerdo.
43:16Pero entiendo lo que dice.
43:17脡l est谩 separando la desaparici贸n de Lohan con...
43:19Entiendo todos los errores.
43:21Pero no lo convierte en criminal.
43:23Yo no dije que lo tiene en la casa.
43:25Yo no dije que lo tiene en la casa o que se lo llev贸.
43:27S铆, entorpecer, s铆.
43:28Yo dije que vos, una organizaci贸n criminal,
43:31necesit谩s contar con varias patas, 驴s铆?
43:33S铆.
43:34Sea la persona que hizo la inteligencia,
43:37la persona que sabe el d铆a,
43:39la persona que lo entrega,
43:41la persona que se lo lleva,
43:42el comprador.
43:43S铆.
43:44驴Bien?
43:45驴Vos dec铆s que 茅l actu贸 adrede de toda esa organizaci贸n criminal?
43:47Yo creo que s铆.
43:48Lo que da de bruces es porque en ese momento
43:51que justamente empez贸 el plan criminal
43:53y supuestamente todos estaban de acuerdo,
43:55este muchacho estaba fascinado
43:58con el asado que ten铆a en su cara,
44:00comiendo a cuatro manos,
44:02y cuando le avisan,
44:03el que supuestamente, seg煤n tu teor铆a,
44:05ten铆a que ser el encargado criminal de tapar y encubrir todo,
44:08dej贸 el celular ah铆,
44:09sigui贸 comiendo como si nada.
44:11Tendr铆a que tener una participaci贸n previa.
44:13Tendr铆a que tener una participaci贸n previa y activa.
44:16Escuchame.
44:17A ver, 驴hay comunicaciones, Marcelo, previas?
44:20Sacarme fotos a los chicos en los colegios est谩 bien, 驴no?
44:22驴S铆?
44:23No.
44:24No.
44:25Y no.
44:26Ah, 驴no?
44:27No, no.
44:28Ah, porque hay comunicaciones que le gustaba
44:30sacarle fotos a los chicos en los colegios.
44:32Arto rar铆simo es ese dato.
44:34驴Pero yo estoy loco?
44:35No lo convierte en criminal.
44:38Reitero.
44:39Si hay una organizaci贸n dedicada al secuestro de chicos,
44:43ese es un dato central.
44:45驴Lo marca un perfil, hacer algo as铆?
44:47S铆, un delincuent贸n.
44:49Como todo comisario de pueblo.
44:51No, no, no.
44:53No naturalicemos primero delitos a menores de edad.
44:57Y segundo, si tienes que ver con una causa de desaparici贸n de un
45:00nene, me parece que es m谩s que la categor铆a delincuent贸n.
45:03驴Qu茅 elementos hay?
45:04驴Qu茅 indicios hay, Marcelo, contra Maciel?
45:10Mira, la participaci贸n de Maciel tiene distintas aristas,
45:16pero obviamente no me corresponde a m铆 hablar,
45:19no soy su defensa.
45:21Tampoco atacarlo porque s铆.
45:24Lo 煤nico que puedo decir que fue muy desprolijo, s铆,
45:27el accionar respecto del cargo que 茅l ten铆a.
45:31Y tambi茅n en la recolecci贸n de evidencias como, por ejemplo,
45:34la zapatilla.
45:35No preserv贸 el lugar, eso est谩 claro,
45:38como para poder determinar bien qui茅n manipul贸 esa zapatilla,
45:42c贸mo se lleg贸 ah铆, qui茅nes fueron.
45:44O sea, y recordemos la falsa alarma,
45:47tampoco fue claro ese tema.
45:50Y tambi茅n existen muchas desproligidades,
45:52como dice Sacher, que tal vez por ah铆 no lo vinculan
45:56directamente con un plan de organizaci贸n para incumplir,
45:59sino por una propia torpeza, tal vez.
46:02Y bueno, depender谩 de su abogado defensor c贸mo elabora la
46:05estrategia para que 茅l pueda desvincularse o justificar su
46:09accionar.
46:10Y de Ben铆tez, 驴qu茅 elementos hay para situarlo en el lugar del
46:14hecho y en la desaparici贸n del OAN?
46:21Bueno, Ben铆tez tiene en su contra varias cosas que los mismos
46:26socios para la querella, que son Ram铆rez y Millap铆,
46:30declararon en contra, porque ellos perfectamente se帽alan que
46:34Ben铆tez fue el que se fue primero,
46:36que invit贸 con la excusa de llevar naranjas al pueblo,
46:39no era para comer ah铆, y que te贸ricamente 茅l hab铆a visto con
46:43anterioridad.
46:44Recordemos que Ben铆tez siempre iba al campo,
46:46o sea, no sabemos que d铆a anterior pudo haber ido o no,
46:49茅l iba porque su mujer era una de las due帽as del campo,
46:52a ese campo, o sea, conoce la zona.
46:55Con esa excusa, cuando llega, porque Ram铆rez,
46:58le dice, vamos a juntar naranja al naranjal,
47:02como le llamaba, le dice, vamos a buscar a la tapera de
47:05caballeros.
47:06S铆, pero tambi茅n, Marcelo, dio negativo, 驴no?
47:09El examen que le hicieron en su zona 铆ntima.
47:13S铆, porque eso en realidad no se deb铆a a una agresi贸n sexual,
47:17eso se deb铆a a un problema de 茅l,
47:21de alguna enfermedad que estuvo cursando,
47:23y en realidad detect贸 en el examen m茅dico,
47:28la doctora que lo revisa, detect贸 la presencia de pus,
47:31para que se entienda.
47:32No es ni siquiera semen.
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